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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4529750 No.4529750 [Reply] [Original]

Recieve thy pounding!

>> No.4529758
File: 302 KB, 1786x818, 1514673239730.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

let's get this shit started

>> No.4529767

Is that Jack Black

>> No.4529792

How to spot a pleb:
he prefers TMA to TDP

>> No.4529795

No it's h3h3

>> No.4529828


>> No.4529851

exactly what i thought

>> No.4529871
File: 915 KB, 2270x1419, thief-garrett-wallpaper-4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I play TDP for the original campaign, and TMA for the fan missions.

the original TDP campaign is a perfect finished whole. all missions serve a clear purpose. all missions have high quality. everything is polished and aesthetically pleasing. a lot of people hate the Maw, but at least it serves a clear narrative purpose, and it's over pretty quickly. imho it does a good job at wrapping up the story.

meanwhile the TMA campaign is a mess. the number of city watch or mechanist themed missions is unproportional. Casing doesn't make sense, and it's still a boring mansion with shitty architecture even if we only had Masks. all city missions are ugly as fuck compared to Assassins and THC. overall the T2 campaign is fan mission tier, and I've played plenty of fan mission campaigns with higher quality than the original campaign.

on a purely aesthetic level, I prefer T1's cold white lighting over T2's comfy warm lighting.

>> No.4529997

which is your favorite t2 mission?
conversely, what's your favorite "story arc" in the game's levels.

>> No.4530192

I like the sound of it. As opposed to a more classic chaotic situation, estabilishing precise rules to play by is equally interesting for horror missions (or horror in general), especially if the player can dare to break them and eventually is forced to do so. It's the vibe I got from the Cradle, even if mainly story wise: while the Cathedral is an actual death trap, the Cradle appears to get more dangerous the more you delve into it.
Sadly we're never gonna have a decent sequel and FMs have their limitations, but sometimes I appreciate just how much these games make the mind wonder. It sounds dumb but this was one entertaining thought.

Speaking of sequels, I'm surprised by the lack of spiritual successors of Thief. A lot of games, stealth or not, have Thief and LGS as their inspiration. Sometimes it shows, sometimes it's subtle. But none of them tries to be Thief (Dishonored, maybe). Did the series perfect this formula ten years ago?

>> No.4530724

Can you have rain in Thief Gold? Is it allowed for the 20YA FM contest?

>> No.4530772

You can have it but I don't think it's allowed for the contest.

>> No.4530808

Is the dark mod worth looking into? Are the available fan missions any good?

I see they're still updating the game but the community seems ded.

>> No.4530846


It's free and it's not a particularly big download. Why don't you try it yourself?

>> No.4531356

The Shadow of Lord Rothchest

There's this one, but I don't like the result.

>> No.4531851

When I downloaded Thief 2 it came with these files in addition to the setup file:
>NewDarkGraphicsSettingsToolv1.0 --FULL.exe
>NewDarkGraphicsSettingsToolv1.0 --LIGHT.exe

The setup file itself was "setup_thief2_2.0.0.18.exe"

What do these do EXACTLY? And are they even necessary? Because I haven't done anything with them and it looks like Thief 2 is running just fine from what I can tell.

>> No.4532002
File: 1.10 MB, 1280x720, 2018-01-18 20-30-08.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

has thief ever cockblocked you before?

>> No.4532043
File: 31 KB, 800x800, taff.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>ten years ago
Fucking hell I'm still using the "add ten years to the moment of the 90s you're distancing yourself from" method but we're fully entering the twenty zone.

No escape from the spooky mines.
There's something dantean about the progression in that mission, you start from the haunted caves and end up in the holy upper levels. But, unlike Dante, no one is ever glad to see Garrett, and the company never gets better the farther you go.

>> No.4532326

Why is nuGarrett depicted as the sympathetic underdog who's actual qualities are ironically mocked as flaws and Garrett depicted as the clueless meathead who's flaws are obliviously praised as qualities?

>> No.4532338

>that bush

>> No.4532479

garrett never killed anyone. constantine and karras both died by their own hands.

>> No.4532483
File: 305 KB, 2518x1024, virgin garrett vs chad nugarrett.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.4532616

Pagan girls come with perks

>> No.4532681

Can you exit the mission this way on Expert once you have Basso?

>> No.4532761

This is one detailed mission briefing and it certainly sets up some expectations.
Also the mission answer to a very spefic question: what did Garrett so with Constantine's sword after TDP? I like it, so let's see.

>> No.4532813
File: 39 KB, 500x341, ThiefII-beast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I was just playing TMA. A Karras-bot fired a cannonball at me and it exploded, which caused a deployed rope arrow to shake. Such TECHNOLOGY!

>> No.4534273


Garrett had a waifu?

>> No.4534278


Grils like to ship Vic and Garrett together when she was just a manipulative bitch. He did kill her GOD after all.

>> No.4534282


That's not sneaking through the mines and factory, you dumbass.

>> No.4535669

By the Builder's cock.

>> No.4535698

Kek. Uncanny.

>> No.4535829

To be fair he seemed upset about what happened at Soulforge, and not only because she fucked up like an amateur. He specifically mentions Viktoria's death as something the Keepers could have prevented. Viktoria on the other hand bids him farewell calling him "good thief".
It's the first time we see Garrett cooperate with someone through a game and I believe they tried something new with the story in their usual way, subtle and told by a few words and images. The game doesn't turn into a buddy cop movie out of nowhere (luckily and sadly), but you can tell that they got past the initial hostility thanks to the mission they shared.
Now, I don't remember much about his relationship with Artemus, but I do remember that his death was quite unceremonious and it's a shame. He's an important character after all, the good part of the Keepers-centered story. I guess the final reference to the start of the series makes up for it.

>> No.4535832
File: 103 KB, 600x315, meditation-realization-elitism-is-the-enemy-of-enlightenment-600x315.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>mfw playing through Lord Beilman's Estate

>> No.4536093
File: 2.88 MB, 1280x720, rotc.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

and yet the very next mission has garrett descending through a giant tomb
really makes you think...
haven't tried expert but the mission ends as if garrett dies even after ticking the first goal, which i'm guessing it does no matter what

>> No.4536214

Is Deadly Shadows good? 1/Gold and 2 are pretty much the best games I ever played. How does DS rank by comparison?

>> No.4536243

I have Thief 2 version

I found a patch labeled version

What EXACTLY does this do? And should I install it? Do I NEED to install it to make the game work?

>> No.4536254

It has its problems like crouching makes you completely silent no matter the surface and how buggy it is, but it's definitely worth playing. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I thought T3 was more consistent in the levels than T1 or 2. All the levels are either good or amazing and I can't say the same thing about the first two games. The story is probably its strongest aspect. You finally get to learn more about the Keepers. Don't forget the mod that removes the loading screens from the levels.

>> No.4536267

So it's literally an instant death and the game treats it as such? Or is it actually just a mission failure like it looks like? Not too familiar with dromed but I guess it's like a zone in the mission that triggers failing that objective instantly which is actually pretty interesting since the likelihood of the player getting up there is fucking miniscule. I guess LGS thought of everything.

>> No.4536269

>All the levels are either good or amazing
The only good levels are the seaside manor, museum and cradle. The rest are very bland and forgettable, and even without the loading zones, most are very small and flat. Also the city hub was shit.
>and I can't say the same thing about the first two games.
Thief 1 has the best missions by far. Thief 2 might be the more consistent (in how boring they are).
>The story is probably its strongest aspect. You finally get to learn more about the Keepers
I don't like what they did to the keepers. They turned them into a bunch of morons, overly reliant on those stupid glyphs. I liked them more when you didn't know much about them.

>> No.4537005 [SPOILER] 
File: 335 KB, 977x1920, 1516541036109.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Fangirls obsess over Garrett and not this

>> No.4537042

Purah was involved with the Calendra missions.

>> No.4537425

I just played through Lord Alan's Factory, and what can I say, it's... different.

The size of it is breathtaking, but since there is no human measure, it all feels pretty abstract. You could argue that it's "poor man's large scale", the one you get from designing a normal sized mission and then resizing everything by x3. The large scale also makes the mission pretty slow to navigate, and backtracking becomes pretty frustrating.

In spite of this, I really liked it. The late industrial theme felt pretty original, and the horror elements in the end struck just right for me. using all the different numbers to navigate was interesting.

I'm gonna try the other two Lord Alan missions out now.

>> No.4537521

>run over a stationary hammer on the floor
>insta fucking die
i know this is because hammers have a unique "damage creatures when thrown" property and this was a weird glitch but i like to imagine i just tripped over the fucking thing and broke my neck.

>> No.4537574

Garrett x L'Arsene is the patrician ship.

>> No.4537661

People here will shit on it because "muh Xbox" and "muh tiny levels", which is fair criticism, but I fucking loved this game to death anyhow when it came out.

The best aspect is that it actually gives a good resolution to the story.

City hub was great
> you actually have to sell items to fences
> then you can visit shops in town
> collecting elemental crystals in town
> reading people's diaries
> daily events where NPCs act differently depending on what you did before
> that ambience of being out on the street where people and guards interact
> sneaking past the guards
> locating and entering level locations

Also the Keepers were like that from the get-go. Every bit of information and text scrap you get in the games says that the Keepers prefer inaction to keep the balance, and glyphs are all over the fucking briefings and cutscenes.

>> No.4537665

Thief 1
>Hammer Haunts wield swords because their cursed bodies are unable to wield the blessed hammer
Thief 2
>Hammer Haunts wield hammers because hurr durr Hammerites
wtf I hate Looking Glass now

>> No.4537684

Thief 2 is borderline fan-fiction sometimes, but not as much as TDS is.

>> No.4537690

Maybe the hammers aren't blessed and just ordinary hammers?

>> No.4537727

Thief 2 is a regular example of "listening to the fans".

Guess what, fans are shit.

>> No.4537739

Holy haunts haunting the heathen Mechanists in the name of the Builder

>> No.4537770

I always thought that the Haunts in the cathedral wielded swords because you need to be able to dismember undead. A warhammer is a heavy, anti-armor weapon that crushes bone. Zombies don't care if their skulls are bashed in. You need to be able to hack them to pieces.
Plus Thief 1 perfectly explains the sad and misguided piety of the Hammerites, that they attribute to their god whatever accomplishments they've achieved from their own hard work, just like real life catholics. The Lunar Pool at the cloister can charge an object with the same kind of blessing as priests can give using their arcane abilities. It's not really divine power, or even magic. It's science. But prepare to get executed for heresy if you tell that to the Hammerites. The hammers are not blessed weapons. Deadly Shadows is actually the only game in the trilogy where Hammerites are capable of destroying undead using their hammers alone. Put two zombies against twenty Hammerites in Thief 1 and you've got twenty dead Hammerites and one zombie with twenty frags.

>> No.4537775

>...one zombie with...
*...two zombies with...

>> No.4537994

>Deadly Shadows is actually the only game in the trilogy where Hammerites are capable of destroying undead using their hammers alone

Demonstrably wrong. You can lure the zombie right next to the first two hammerites you see in Cragscleft and they will blow him asunder with their hammers.

>> No.4538002

Really? That must be a Thief Gold or Mandela Effect thing because I distinctly remember only explosive, holy water and flashbang damage being able to harm zombies and NPCs were no exception. I need to go and test this.

>> No.4538009

I've done this multiple times on my last playthroughs. It's true that Garrett can only kill Zombies with those things, but the rules dont seem to apply the same way for NPCs-

>> No.4538024

I tested it and it's true. Damn. I need to install the original unpatched Dark Project and see if my memory is faulty.

>> No.4538060
File: 37 KB, 540x729, fruityplebs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>he quickloads every time he gets caught instead of fending off enemies or using gadgets to escape

>> No.4538078

I fucking hate people who play that way. If you wanna ghost, then ghost but without the savescumming. I ghosted so much at a certain point that I never used any gadgets and weapons. Fuck that. The best time of playing Thief that you can have is to actually use flashbombs, gas mines, your arsenal of weapons and the like.

Thief is as much about your contingency plans and emergency solutions as it is about a smooth plan coming together.

>> No.4538124

Would anyone happen to know why I might be losing my Thief 2 cutscenes after installing tafferpatcher?
I've tried uninstalling/reinstalling the game a bunch but I only ever have movies with the game unpatched, and it's weird as hell because this has never been an issue for me before.

>> No.4538136

I think normal guards w/ swords can't kill zombies, but hammerites can, could be wrong.

>> No.4538171

For a while I couldn't even accept that a guard would watch me escape and let it pass. I would quickload to a safer moment even when I had successfully got out of trouble only to redo that part better. It's incredible how much satisfaction I got from this while never actually getting good in the process.
Thief surely lends itself pretty well to supreme thieving simulations, but if the game system allows a perpetual cat and mouse situation to take place, with the guards always forgetting about the thief they were chasing, who will always try again to get past them with new tricks and solutions, I'm up for it now. A few games with guards that don't forget about the trespasser they've seen already exist, I can safely be autistic about those and keep Thief in the fun zone.

>> No.4538193

>If you wanna ghost, then ghost but without the savescumming.
Exactly. That's what my video series is about. If something is beyond your capabilities without saving, then what's the point of doing it? Savescumming and reloading after every tiny failure only demonstrates your supreme ability to gain enjoyment from something that can't possibly be fun. Ironman Ghosting might accidentally end up maybe demonstrating actual skill. If you look at it from a lore perspective, it's not far fetched to think that Garrett would find a tactical advantage in completely avoiding confrontations, like in Casing. But it needs to have reasonable odds of success. The quicksave mechanic is not canon. We're not talking about Thi4f where videogame handicap-accessibility features were written into the story.

>> No.4539276

I used to roleplay the Thief persona to such a degree that I would want to leave everything and everyone undisturbed except for the items that I stole. Then I thought about it more and realised how stupid that would be. You don't take anything but the valuables and somehow no one notices that all the gold, silverware and jewelry is gone? Fuck that. Garrett is not a ghost. He is a man. You don't pass through the levels without a trace.

I kind of liked that the guards actually (try to) inform each other of trespassers. Some levels like Assassins have an alarm that keeps all the guards on a permanent state of higher alertedness which only seems reasonable.

Exactly. What is the point of playing a game that is largely about spending thought and resources on contingency plans and gadgetry if you plan of never making use of it?

I get it if you want to keep commotion to a minimum but a tap on the back of the head with a blackjack every now and then is preferable to failing your arbitrary ghosting objective or constantly savescumming forward. 90% of Thief ghosting let's plays I've watched are just that. Savescumming. Imagine breaking into a building in real life and telling the guards each time they spot you "no no, you didn't see me, let me quickload." That's the equivalent of penetrant savescumming.

Either get good enough to do it without the reloading, or buy some flashbombs and mines. Have some fucking fun.

I remember just going on rampages with my friends on Thief maps because it was fun to do. That drove me to play the game a bit more naturally, i.e. not creating any saves other than those where I leave off on when I close the game.

>> No.4539362

>Either get good enough to do it without the reloading, or buy some flashbombs and mines.
I'd argue that even that is secondary because it's a stealth game. The immediate next item on your list after your main objective is to remain undetected. If you can't be reasonably certain that a guard won't be detecting you, knock him out. Don't quicksave and roll the dice. That way he will have by default never seen you. You can't be "un-seen" the way you can be "un-chased" after escaping. That irreversible failure state is also why I don't like the concept of "Guards vs. Thieves" multiplayer. I dislike the idea of playing on a team that fails its primary purpose before the game even begins, since all guards are physically incapable of not knowing that there are intruders.
I know almost everyone hates Thieves Guild but blackjacking before you're detected has an important background role in the context of that mission. You should do everything you can to avoid being identified, so that all blame can be taken off your shoulders and placed on the two opposing parties, and the best way to ensure that is to incapacitate anyone that might threaten your your ability to remain undetected.

>> No.4539830

To each game its rules, and sometimes this applies to different missions too. Thief changes the rules of the game early throwing you in haunted mines, and does so consistently through the game. The player is asked to tap their adaptability more than anything else: the only constant are your skills and trusty gadgets. Trying to not die comes first, not getting caught is the natural follow up if one masters these rules. Somewhere in the middle the player's creativity comes into play.
To think that during my ghosting phase I tried to play every stealth game the same. I'm glad most of them offer a good variety of gameplay possibilities, it feels like being new to the genre again after thinking that there's a right way to play them for too long.

>> No.4539849

>That irreversible failure state is also why I don't like the concept of "Guards vs. Thieves" multiplayer. I dislike the idea of playing on a team that fails its primary purpose before the game even begins, since all guards are physically incapable of not knowing that there are intruders
I've always thought that a cool way to do Thieves vs. Guards would be to have one "master guard" who gets a few minutes to draw out patrol routes for other guards, to more optimally protect the valuables; it still has some issues but it might work

>> No.4539879

I know its not retro but has anyone else had trouble running Deadly Shadows on Windows 10? I keep getting a weird stuttering that I can't get rid of no matter what I do.

>> No.4539883

I didn't like how they nerfed blackjacking, but once you adapt the controls it's fairly intuitive. Don't enjoy the smaller levels though, not tried the no-loading screen mod.

>> No.4540151

I don't know why no one else responding has mentioned the controls. TDS isn't a bad game but its controls are very clunky compared to TDP and TMA. Every movement is filtered through the 3rd person model's animations and there seems to be what feels like built-in stuttering in the act of jumping. The limitations of making 3rd person animations look more realistic caused other compromises such as more limited melee interaction, the inability to exit ladders from any point other than the bottom and the top, and the total absence of swimming and rope climbing.
It's not all a step backwards though. Even though TDS is a console game, it actually introduced a new button to separate contextual actions. Using items and frobbing game world objects use different keys unlike TDP and TMA.

>> No.4540246

Sounds like normal DS to me, that game's a shit that runs like shit.

>> No.4540254

There was something definitely gothic about this one. Not only for the story, it's also about how the building is made. It's confusing and twisted, but you can get to know it through exploration and it never loses its identity: room by room, it still feels like an opulent, dark manor. At first its layout doesn't feel right by the Thief standards, but the player can eventually overcome the challenge like in Constantine's manor. A minor prolem are the objects placed in a way that suggest negligence. I'm just too used to see chests and chairs in certain positions, it's like a coded idea of Thief. I wonder if it's possible to break this limit.
Apparently it's a tradition to make the Constaine's Sword hard to steal and I like it.
This FM's Garrett is a traditional one too: he gets into some dark business and finds out about some vaguely evil plan, but the only thing he worries about is finding a way to steal everything he can from this nest of chaos. The mission's objective doesn't change when the player finds out what's happening in this dark manor, as opposed to ìsome FMs where our thief suddenly enters hero mode and saves the day. It's interesting how you can deal with Lord Rothchest in any way you want: you have to rob him but you can even fight and kill him. An implied freedom of choice, based on the player's own experience, is always welcome.

>> No.4540259

The undeground part of the mission was a small, personal disappointment, because of how I imagined it while exploring the manor. Like I feared, the atmosphere the mission builds through readables and level design sets up some expectations. Which isn't a bad thing, letting the player vividly picture the heart of this cult the mission is about surely is a merit. The problem is said heart of darkness ends when things get good. Some readables really add to the tone (especially the ones from Rothchest): there's clearly a bigger picture our thief can't even try to understand, but the feelings expressed by the characters involved are clear. It's the gothic part of this gothic thing.
The catacombs part creates and interesting claustrophobic effect but it can be annoying to traverse. The idea of a small underground labyrinth between me and my objective is interesting, but it can be made more challenging rather than tedious, especially when it connects more parts of the underground zone. I liked the little temple, mainly because I'm happy to see some assets from the Lost City being used. I've always found the OM great setting wise, but the fact that mainly flying fireballs and burricks patrol it limits its potential (maybe I should try the TDP version). TDS tried to add a twist to it, the idea of entering the ruins of a lost civilization and find out their inhabitant are still there is nothing less than endearing, but the technical limitation of the game clearly didn't help. So I relly hope in some redemption for the Lost City theme along the line.

>> No.4540612

You call yourself shit?

>> No.4541081

The problem is that blackjacking the fuck out of people is a dead giveaway as well. Unless you find convenient spots for everyone you knock out guards will notice bodies. And although they don't mind if their buddies are missing, I think they should. Imagine guarding a place and all of a sudden none of your colleagues are where they should be. That sure as fuck isn't reassuring.

I disagree that staying undetected is your next great objective. Depending on how you plan to handle a situation in a reliable way, stealth is kind of an option depending on the difficulty setting. If you're on expert, being detected is a painful disadvantage. If you're playing on Hard or Normal and you set up a big ambush with mines, flashbombs and other items from your arsenal, that's fair game too.


Depending on what level type your facing your strategies usually change but they still follow the priorities you've listed.

> Humans
Don't get detected. Use flashbombs, blackjack and the darkness as main contingency plans.

> Undead
Stay undetected because otherwise you'll die. Manage resources on mines, holy water, water arrows and fire arrows. There are parts of the game where killing off some zombies is almost inevitable.

> ghost type missions
pump all resources into moss, water and gas arrows, keep camera eyes, flashbombs and invisibility potions handy. In fact go heavy on the utility items.

I like how they game unfolds itself in that way. Depending on what your briefing and main objectives are like you will most likely prepare differently because you can't eliminate being caught in a tight spot.

>> No.4541092


I think the best way to handle a Thief multiplayer would be co-op. Design a level like Casing the Joint or Masks with multiple entrances, with fairly strong AI on detection and make it a bit more difficult. Keep team sizes small. Perhaps even give each Thief their own objective so that a plan comes together, such as

Thief 1: Gets a special objective to go into the basement to turn off the security system with special item/skill unique to them

Thief 2: Opens a safe tied to the security system and loots it

Thief 3: Steals the main item, like some personal book of the guy you're stealing from because what you're actually doing is industrial espionage or something

Thief 4: Does some other switch/button work for other shit to happen on the map.

I think something like that COULD be cool. But hell, before I ever played any multiplayer game I thought people could work together and actually have a good time too.

>> No.4541205

Have you guys never played Thievery? It's a Guards v. Thieves mod for UT99. I played it with /v/ like 5 years ago, it was tremendous fun.

>> No.4542451

Are there any FMs you guys have played more than once or are there too many out there to justify the time spent when you could be playing new ones?

>> No.4542650


He seems happier here.

>> No.4543262

>Your mother sucks plumsies in hell

>> No.4543491

I've replayed a few like Inverted Manse, which lends itself to replaying, but I prefer to wait long enough before replaying any others so they're like new.

>> No.4543571

Captain of the Guard and Journey into Underdark i think they were called

> CotG
It's basically a Tower Defence game where you buy units and items from a shop and keep out the undead. Fun for the odd playthrough

> Journey Into Underdark

Boy is this a fun one. It's basically an Underground DnD mission that's combat-oriented. The difficulty settings reflect the class that you pick. Settings are Fighter (Has a Sword, Mace and Throwing Daggers of the magical and non magical variety), Ranger (Assortment of different magical arrows, including turning people into stone, summoning spiders, fire etc.), Mage (Summoning creatures, throwing fireballs, magic missiles and other utility spells).

Great replay value trying to figure out when to alot which resources. Overall I'm a big fan of gameplay like this.

>> No.4544592

>tfw am guilty of this
I'll try harder anon

>> No.4544594

I've played Endless Rain, Disorientation and Seven Shades of Mercury twice.

I've dabbled in Inverted Manse but will definitely put some solid hours into it. Loving the difficulty selection reflecting playstyle.

>> No.4544613

Does anyone know if tafferpatcher amd the like have recompiled the old maps with new 32 bit lightmaps?

>> No.4544638

I didn't notice any difference in lightmaps when playing Thief 2 so I don't think so. There is a noticeable difference in Thief Gold, making some parts of Thieves Guild a lot harder in a bad way. As if that mission needed to be more annoying.
Though it could be that Tafferpatcher did recreate the lightmaps with the new bit depth but maybe them being colored lightmaps somehow prevented the shadow values from being altered due to it being so different a mathematical format than monochrome.

>> No.4544795
File: 167 KB, 714x422, tumblr_p061ehaNJR1wrg86ro8_r1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Would Karras/The Builder approve of Smartphones and imageboards?

>> No.4544879

What parts of Thief 2 can be converted to Thief 1?
Skins? Camera? Textures? Items? Sounds?

>> No.4544961

i had no idea there would still be so many thieffans arround ... i thought i would be the last guy on earth to play it .
Im an absolute thief fanatic , i love it !!!!!!!!!

>> No.4544967


>> No.4544972


vladimir vladimirovic PUATIN

>> No.4545003

karras is autistic, so yes

>> No.4545526

It's not vr at all, but the stealth segment from the latest Kingdom Come video looks promising. It's nice to see an RPG with stealth mechanics not only based on your stats, but also many little things to consider and obstacles to deal with if you want to last as savvy thief. It's something I always dreamed of. We don't know if the game is gonna be good or not, but I'm glad they're trying.

>> No.4545543
File: 20 KB, 637x644, Mechanist.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>Mechanism is the belief that natural wholes (principally living things) are like complicated machines or artifacts, composed of parts lacking any intrinsic relationship to each other.

Are they implying flesh is just as pure as a flame-forged contraption of gears?

>> No.4545786

i hate him so much

>> No.4546130

I pretty much agree with you. The patches on PC make it much better now though. The tiny levels are fixed, and all...

>> No.4546154

ur a taffer

>> No.4546172

As pure, no. But similar in design.

>> No.4546243

I got the impression that Karras believed that everything in the world was the Master Builder's creation, and the inspiration to create machines and ultimately ones that could walk, talk and think came from him. That this was the Builder's plan to achieve perfection, to transform the existing world from the rotting and diseased imprefection to the everlasting perfect mechanical and mathematical order. Living things were a wonderous creation, but living machines were the perfected successors of that.

>> No.4546473

>Living things were a wonderous creation, but living machines were the perfected successors of that.

The Hammers probably believed that, but listen to 2:36:


>The Flesh is sinful; Woe to those who are born of it!
then 3:22
>The Flesh is imperfect. It is unclean. It putrefies... A child of flesh is loathsome and ill-tempered.

I can't find a video but in Mission 5 you hear two Mechanists talking and one says something like, "Do you think your own body of bloating gases and leaky flesh doth please The Builder?"

They seem pretty dementedly disgusted by anything biological. I can see where the Hammers were coming from, calling Mechanism a perversion of The Builder's scripture.

>> No.4546567
File: 6 KB, 111x87, t.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.4547063

The Builder was canonically a human.

>> No.4547472
File: 158 KB, 555x527, When you finish Return To The Cathedral without talking to Brother Murus.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I am very impressed by the mansion part of this FM. There's a freedom in the paths you can choose. Felt like a kid on a playground with all the climbing and traversing. FE, there are many ways to enter the mansion.
Need to take cues from this one, for sure!
Going to replay it.

The thing about the catacombs that irritated me was the trouble in running.
If the ceiling was just a little bit higher...

>> No.4548037

I'm pretty sure it doesn't say that anywhere in the games, but it is probably true.

>> No.4548183

>implying The Builder existed

>> No.4549105

why does he sound like Truman Capote


>> No.4549293

By the way, did you find the trapdoor near the telescope?

>> No.4550562

Late reply but zombies are specifically set up to be able to be killed by hammerites.
Source: http://www.thiefmissions.com/telliamed/scripts.html The very last script.

>> No.4550750

t. buttmad pagan

>> No.4551170

Nope, I have to play this again to look for secrets. I also have to find the secret passage that connects the manor directly to the temple.
I agree on the mansion being fun to explore. It's weird looking and narrow, but everything is connected and depending on how you play you can end up in Lord Rothchest's room immediately or after exploring the lower floors, find the sword by pure luck or after searching for hints first.
I wonder if the haunt was supposed to wake up if alerted. Its body just floating around and following the player is the kind of weird scene that maybe fits the atmosphere (that one readable that mentions the mindless body of the lord's loved one wandering the dungeon comes to mind), but it feels like it was supposed to be the main obstacle before the skull. We've already seen a burrick playing possum in Koobze, I guess it's possible to have an haunt acting like a zombie.

>> No.4551189
File: 57 KB, 900x900, 1430639362691.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Manure tier
>Autismo tier
>Fence-sitter tier
>Just doing their job tier
City Watch
>Good guy tier
>Ubermensch tier[/spoiler

I dare you to dispute this factually correct tier list

>> No.4551825

When you hear it......


>> No.4552075

Give us a timestamp

>> No.4552406

That's pretty much what every faction is outlined as in the series.

>> No.4552421

Didn't hear it. Him confessing about robbing a bank?

>> No.4552437

>>Just doing their job tier
Including Benny? Hmmm


>> No.4552564

>doesn't try to stand out

Which is a good thing for a thief, right?

>> No.4552583

Only a true chad with a brain shriveled to the size of a pea from decades of steroid usage and cranial semen protein injections could fail to understand the absolutely hamfisted point of that meme.

>> No.4552604

lel, just heard it. Not sure if he does say "taffers" though.

>> No.4552685

He says "kafirs" which is an incorrect plural of "kafir" -an islamic insult referring to a infidel. The correct plural is "kuffar".

>> No.4552985
File: 1.45 MB, 650x999, tumblr_onpbpjbrjI1w0zjvdo1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Do you think Karras built a custom "waifu" model of his war robots? A pink version with a little bowtie and falsetto voice that cooked him dinner and asked how his day was when he got back home?

>> No.4553120

I like to believe Karras is eunuch.

>> No.4553139

I have a hard time picturing karras doing anything sexual and you should too.

>> No.4553760
File: 320 KB, 1280x799, tumblr_okitzqh7hM1w0zjvdo1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why did Karras trigger the servants at the end of SaS?

He knew that Garrett had literally killed a God through cunning and stealth. He knew that Garrett had snuck through TWO heavily guarded Mechanist outposts just to kidnap his right-hand man, Cavador, and he must have known Cavador would talk and tell them Karras' plan.

So, despite watching and taunting Garrett on the security cameras, therefore knowing roughly his path through the cathedral, he didn't realise that Garrett was gathering the materials to forge a guiding beacon. Did he think that after killing his waifu, Garrett was just going to run around Soulforge dodging cannonballs and cogblades for 45 minutes only to leave without having accomplished anything? Was Karras, the legendary genius inventor, really so incompetent that he didn't realise what Garrett had done?

>> No.4553765

One of his sins was obviously Hubris.

>> No.4553868

Just played through All Torc as well as Stones & Glass Houses (its sequel) immediately after it. R Soul's level design is really quite large and boring. There's a lot of running over large/wide and totally flat hallways and it's especially bad in the city missions he makes, he has an over reliance on scripted sequences where you stand in a room and a guy spits dialogue at you for 3 minutes (though I prefer this to reading 20 pages of a readable to find 1 line of useful information).

The city missions are fucking ass because of this, every single street is flat and wide and you just run around them forever looking for your objectives. The moving train mission is a nice idea but it's nothing more than a 5 minute setpiece that is over extremely quickly because there is only 1 objective and 1 secret. The mansion missions are definitely the best of the bunch but they are also really mazelike and confusing at times.

Pretty mediocre missions all things considered, the few technical achievements aside.

>> No.4554460

>So, despite watching and taunting Garrett on the security cameras, therefore knowing roughly his path through the cathedral, he didn't realise that Garrett was gathering the materials to forge a guiding beacon. Did he think that after killing his waifu, Garrett was just going to run around Soulforge dodging cannonballs and cogblades for 45 minutes only to leave without having accomplished anything? Was Karras, the legendary genius inventor, really so incompetent that he didn't realise what Garrett had done?
Thief 2 is a stealth game. The kind of playthrough you're describing, ie. one in which Garrett doesn't stay undetected is not canon. Karras had no idea what Garrett was planning because he couldn't see him through the cameras. You're actually supposed to sneak in this stealth game.

>> No.4554610

>one in which Garrett doesn't stay undetected is not canon
What a meme this is. He gets caught in the intro videos to each game (and for that matter he kills a guy in each of them). The thieves in Thieves' Guild recognize him on sight. He's seen and needs to use a flash bomb to escape in Ambush. The assassins in Assassins tracked him down even if they didn't get him in the end. There's nothing that says he's supposed to be a literal ghost.

>> No.4554617

A master thief is good, very good, but not infallible.

>> No.4554658

Nobody was making such gross generalizations across his entire career. The discussion was literally about the supposed plot hole that Karras didn't figure out Garrett's plans. The simple fact is that Garrett in this case remained undetected. That's all the explanation you need. A smaller strawman is the mentioning of ghosting. Remaining undetected and blackjacking guards or shutting down robots are not mutually exclusive. If I wasn't operating from the principle of charity I'd think you were insultingly condescending thinking that someone can't recognize such obvious logical fallacies that you're deliberately using, but I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt by deciding that you must just be stupid.

>> No.4554782
File: 58 KB, 645x729, 1507822558059.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>lady bafford secretly supported pagans, therefore every noble in every fan mission must do that as well

>> No.4555639

Found the passage?

>> No.4555647


>> No.4555917


>> No.4555975

life of the party is overrated as fuck

>> No.4556307

Overrated sure, but it's still a damn fine level.

>> No.4556742
File: 42 KB, 413x600, Rothchilds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>gtfo Rothchildren
There are some really retarded design decisions in that mission. You have no choice but to run through an occupied apartment if you don't want to harm its inhabitants, and reading Karras' scripture spawns an unavoidable indestructible enemy that thankfully is glitched and can't even sound the alarm.

>> No.4556850

>You have no choice but to run through an occupied apartment if you don't want to harm its inhabitants
that part made more sense in the demo version. there, there was another route to angelwatch where you'd approach it from the front. instead of just immediately jumping into the vents like in the finished game, you got to climb the facade before entering through a window in the ballroom.

>> No.4557020

Fuck me, you mean there wasn't a route around the thot manor?
That section of the level felt very out of place since there were so many routes around the rest of the map.

>> No.4557026

Yep infact i ditched vanilla thief 2 when i was on my way back from Angelwatch, the mission drags for so long and mechanist shit is not rly interesting i preffer to play TF 2 fms that has TF 1 atmosphere/ includes hammerites..

>> No.4557030
File: 58 KB, 600x855, 1323210621001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>mfw the Thief fanbase has created so many excellent missions that literally every Thief related mission theme/gameplay preference is catered for.

>> No.4557037

>no H-Thief

>> No.4557040
File: 27 KB, 460x276, Blackadder460.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

As far as you know

>> No.4557045
File: 1.41 MB, 1920x1080, dump005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yeah, the switch is behind one of the statues in the corridors that lead to the pool, and the passage that opens is in the vestibule behind it. It's the only time the sound of a secret door opening helped me: there's a switch in the chimney I didn't find a use for and the same goes for the valve near the kitchen sink. Also I didn't find anything in the telescope room, I should look harder.
I've read only now the scroll that tells the legend of Hanhan'Tau and how the nature of the temple and the story of each undead in it is connected, which is pretty great. Got back there and found ol' Tau stuck in this position, eternally looking for the trespasser. As a flying corpse at least he reacted to the sounds I made, now he's just a statue. It reminds me of how sometimes dormant zombies glitch this way after loading the game. Age had the best of him.
Since zombies this time aren't simply a spooky filler but a proper part of the plot, my plan to make the catacombs part better wouldn't work. Imo by placing two or three zombies there things would get more interesting: they're slow, but mindlessly running away from one of them in the middle of a labyrinth can only lead to meeting the rest of them sooner. Also by defeating them they would just lay in the middle of a narrow passage, ready to be woken up again, narrowing down your options.
I like to think of them as collateral damage made enemy.

>> No.4557057
File: 2.10 MB, 1920x1080, dump006.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

One thing's for sure, fake secret doors take the secret game to the next level.

>> No.4557061

>fake secret doors
How devilish

>> No.4557065

Fake? That one can be opened?

>> No.4557082

I'm fairly positive it can't. It's just a darker square. I've found what the chimney switch does so the only mystery left is the kitchen valve, for now.

>> No.4557114 [DELETED] 

Well, look for a bookcase.
Incidentally, have checked behind some banners?

>> No.4557119

Are you absolutely sure it's just a square?
Maybe read some books. A thief always got time for that.
Incidentally, have checked behind some banners?

>> No.4557196

Oh, a shortcut, now it makes sense. I accepted too quickly that that one wasn't a good place for an hidden stash. A shortcut is fine too.
I probably kept getting through the small room from the other side of the fireplace to miss the frobbable library-door.

>> No.4557965

What are the mechanics behind Captain of the Guard?
How do you create a wave-based zombie survival game in Thief?

>> No.4558379

TFix carries over enhanced parts of 2 to 1

>> No.4558902

What part of the mechanists is carried over?

>> No.4559210
File: 236 KB, 1546x580, unabletodropafuckingghost.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Quick question: is this possible? (saw this on /v/)

>> No.4559313

It's not, it's some shitty fake OC creepypasta. WOW MY GAME IS HAUNTED BY GOASTS

>> No.4559321

If anything, the game crashes and keeps loading indefinitely.

>> No.4560130

Open it in Dromed and find out.

>> No.4561148

Has anyone ever seen a downloadable orange/yellow light shaft? Yeah, I don't know how to change the blue/moonlight know ones

>> No.4561480

I think I got spoiled by later stealth game franchises like Hitman and Dishonored where successfully ghosting a level gives you an achievement, or high rank, or something of the sorts, and thus it feels like any playthrough where somebody spots you is a "wasted" one. I need to get out of that mindset.

>> No.4561492

The Hitman games that have non-lethal takedowns let you knock out as many people as you want as long as you have the resources. It doesn't affect your rank. Dishonored is the same. The only games that actually judge ghosting are the Splinter Cell games. Chaos Theory only gives you the top rank of a mission if you manage to finish it without any alerts and without harming anyone at all. Hitman and Dishonored give you maximum rank even if you knock out everyone.

>> No.4561579

How do I make water flow in a inclined brush (22,5 degrees) in the same direction as the brush. It keeps flowing on a 0 degree way.

>> No.4562075

Chaos Theory gives you 100% if you knock people out though

>> No.4562425

Hitman 2 and 3 gave you very limited anaesthetic (Hitman 2 had dosages that realistically could hold maybe 2-3 people sleeping and for a very brief time, Hitman 3 had a single syringe for every level that lasted for a very long time but still had to be cherished, and Hitman Blood Money was *intended* to give you 2 knockouts per mission, but the abusable interaction with the Human Shield mechanic allowed you to infinitely stun people). Infinite knockouts only became a thing in Absolution, and before Absolution banged, I grokked the shit out of Hitman, where your max stealth rank can be ruined by:
>someone seeing you do something suspicious (particularly a guard)
>found bodies
>extra people killed
>more than a few gunshots fired (Hitman 2)
etc. etc.
basically, Hitman gives you those two amazing guns that pack serious firepower and that you can take almost everywhere, but nobody ever uses them because whenever your cover gets blown, you don't try to organically fix it by either silencing everyone who spotted you, switching disguises, hiding the bodies and reassessing the situation; the max rank being the only rank that matters makes you just go "oh shit, that one dude spotted me while I was lockpicking, I gotta reload now".

It was even more atrocious in Absolution, which had a schizophrenic rank system that was inconsistent and made no sense, and where taking a single step into an area that doesn't even look restricted causes you to get spotted. You want to walk into an alleyway into a residential building that just so happens to have two cops chilling out in front of it (for *some* reason that is never explained?) You step beyond the imaginary boundary on the floor and your rating is down. And that's bad.

Like, I'm all for stealth games rating your performance and all that, but max rank is incentivized in such a way that people just want to get their superawesome ghost playthrough done right instead of just letting the game flow.

>> No.4562856

Character models re-colored as hammerites

>> No.4562979

Can you have a mechanist skin on thief 1 models, together with the mace?

>> No.4563132

No idea. I'm playing on a mac

>> No.4563137
File: 107 KB, 800x600, DVDV2bkX0AErd1U.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Can anyone identify a few FMs that the Thief BSP Twitter has been showing? I'm gonna dump some which caught my eye.

>> No.4563139
File: 87 KB, 800x600, DO788yYXkAE3gZA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4563156

The Black Frog
When Still

This account really needs to step up its game. Not only does it post trash screenshots most of the time, but it has no FM identification whatsoever. I don't even understand why people follow it.

>> No.4563489

While some games encourage ghosting or a somewhat clean way of sneaking (Styx comes to mind) others have mission specific challenges (like Shadow Tactics or Mark of the Ninja) and I find those quite interesting if well done.
A weird case is the one of the new Deus Ex games. The player gets rewarded by completing missions without getting caught or setting off alarms (with achievement for doing it the whole game, setting the standard for the ideal playthrough). At the same time there's a small xp reward for kills/takedowns (with a little bonus for non-lethal ones), pratically encouraging hunting down any guard in a level. But it's also true that there's a reward for getting everywhere, doing everything and essentialy being a perfectionist. They're not necessarily stealth games, but there's clearly a more remunerative way of doing things and, since F9 exists, it's not the most challenging one.
Games like these should mainly react to the way one plays through the game's world and how it changes, rather than just giving more or less points based on that. But I' being unfair, since HR and MD kinda do both.

>> No.4564154
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>> No.4564319
File: 477 KB, 1920x1200, 1513828100479.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Rarely has a game spooked me so hard as Brainchild.

>> No.4565390
File: 2.95 MB, 1973x1536, thief lighting.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

why did they change the art direction so drastically in T2? T1 looked unique, but T2 just looked like a generic "early 00's fantasy game".

>> No.4565394

There's always been some negative critical reception to Thief 1's use of garish colors (Bafford's Manor is frequently used as an example of this with bright purples and yellow brick everywhere).

Thief 2 was specifically made as a response to critical and community reception to the game, hence them removing all the supernatural stuff because 12 year olds at the time (the actual target audience) didn't like them. With those things they also modernized the art style/locations from gothic medieval with steampunk elements to victorian steampunk-based industrial revolution style.

>> No.4565473
File: 1.40 MB, 1920x1200, 1497062310290.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>there are people who don't like Bafford's GOLD manor
Plebs, all of them.

>> No.4565504


>> No.4565517

>ss2 is the only non-thief game to use thief's engine
explain this

>> No.4565523

Dark Engine was a piece of crap, LGS admitted it themselves. I don't think LGS ever opened it up to public licensing anyway, since few at the time wanted games with complex physics and AI.

>> No.4565613

What FM is that?

It's a shame they felt this way. While rather janky, it's a great engine nonetheless. Not as versatile as Build which is as janky if not more, but definitely a great engine.

>> No.4565618

It's just a mission that I was working on a few months ago. It started out different but then I decided to make everything as gold/orange as possible right down the the guards. There's not much to it (you can see the empty void of space to the left so I don't know if I'll ever make anything of it.

>> No.4565619
File: 207 KB, 924x1000, 1458167287279.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How would Garrett have fared aboard the Von Braun?

>yfw you realise Karras and SHODAN would be perfect for each other

>> No.4565654
File: 50 KB, 700x530, too much comfy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Song of the Caverns is such a great level.

>> No.4565714

>Looks mummfy.

>> No.4565763

>being foreverial tiedup by spiders in a cold cavern is comfy
I do love that mission though.
I always like it when missions have little bits of the City streets to go around in and this one has more than one place where you can do that.
Off the top of my head it's the only mission other than The Sword which initially misleads you about its theme.
Raoul is awesome and I like trapping guards in his secret room.
The ambient music is noticeably more instrumental than the rest of the levels.

>> No.4565769
File: 958 KB, 960x754, tumblr_ojng7s5R811w0zjvdo1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>ywn be foreverial tied up and loving it like Gerry

>> No.4565801
File: 109 KB, 800x600, t1-cutscene-sword.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

quickly, recommend me fan missions that feature a T1 aesthetic (white light only, T1 textures, etc) and god tier architecture

>> No.4565827

Gems of Provenance
Project Hammer Part 1
Unexpected Detour

I don't think the second two qualify as god tier architecture but they're well done, just not showy.

>> No.4565952

Thiefkino returns

>> No.4566279 [DELETED] 
File: 36 KB, 824x566, 1504429772323.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4566315
File: 36 KB, 824x566, 1487057898227.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4566363

>bafford has a tiny room with a few bookshelves
>garrett mocks him and calls him a tryhard pseud
>ramirez has a huge library that takes up two floors
>not a word from garrett

>> No.4566627

It used to be a thing that people bought books just to pretend in front of others that they're intellectuals. Maybe Bafford is quite a buffoon in real life and nothing about him says he actually reads those books.

Ramirez seems like he's a wee bit smarter than that.

That aside, maybe the developers just didn't want Garrett to repeat his own jokes.

>> No.4567418

It could do a lot of cool stuff but I can only imagine what it would have been like to use unfinished versions of the Dark Engine during TDP. I guess DromEd liked to crash constantly. Would have been cool to see the Siege Engine they were working on for Thief 3 and Underworld 3 which was going to have realtime lighting, a better level editor and physics and AI, and supposedly memory streaming that would have allowed for enormous maps with seamless indoor/outdoor transitions.

>> No.4567652

>There's always been some negative critical reception to Thief 1's use of garish colors (Bafford's Manor is frequently used as an example of this with bright purples and yellow brick everywhere).

Strong design > lifeless palette of colours design any day.

I'd rather have a game that dares to put in purple than "Let's stick with brown, white, and black, okay people?"

>> No.4567760

Even though I agree that Thief 1 is more interesting looking because of the use of a variety of colors (and monochrome lighting not obscuring any of the colors used), thematically the lifeless aesthetic of Thief 2 fits exactly the story. Almost all of the game takes place in locations influenced by the power of the mechanists, and the one mission that is supposed to be the antithesis of that just happens to be the one that throws a lot of saturated colors at you. Trail of Blood starts with a green forest, then goes into a magical world of elemental chaos, then cycles through all of the colors of all four seasons.
I'm not saying it was a deliberate choice because I don't believe that. But it does retroactively make some sense.

>> No.4568853

has this person done any maps perchance?

>> No.4569508
File: 1.74 MB, 1920x1080, 1500248640435.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4569741
File: 113 KB, 800x600, 1498065255978.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What do you think Garrett does during his down-time?

His apartment in Ambush! has a couple of full bookcases IIRC, so he probably reads at least a bit, though I don't know if he's into fiction. He seems more the kind to read non-fiction, history books and information about weapons and the like.

>> No.4570079
File: 122 KB, 800x600, DTXMf0QXkAA0FRt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Which FM?

>> No.4570082
File: 151 KB, 800x600, DUfSuzaX0AE7I1b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4570138

I get the feeling its The Last Lighthouse Keeper (i think thats the name), but i may be mistaken

>> No.4570523

Visiting prostitutes
Making/maintaining contacts

Regarding Thief GOLD Dromed.
Where are the bow and the quiver in the object hierarchy?

>> No.4570735

T1&2 are great! Love me some Garrett!

I think I prefer thief1 though. Thief2 had better lighting and weather effects, but I didn't like the robots / machines.

Seriously though some of the best and challenging stealth games ever.

Still working on the third. It's smaller in scale though compared to 1&2. Haven't gone past the 2nd or 3rd level, but would love to find the time.

>> No.4571197

They aren't in the hierarchy. Check miss1 to find out their model names.

>> No.4571290

Why not?

>> No.4571486
File: 162 KB, 556x530, 1454196655709.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That was a nice thread last night bois.

>> No.4571705

Must've been one of those threads that do not wish to be seen.

>> No.4571737
File: 13 KB, 250x188, Murus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I just had a dream where I had an official Thief 2 novel in my house that featured a ton more of Karras and the mechanists, and I remember thinking to myself I was going to read it again when I woke up.

Then I did and I realised I had just dreamt the whole damn thing. Now I am dejected.

>> No.4572431

Where do i start with Thief?

Thief gold? Is there a good retexture?

>> No.4572437
File: 1.08 MB, 1400x2000, thief.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Start with Thief Gold. No good retexture.

>> No.4572514
File: 379 KB, 1920x1200, thief hd texture mod.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

High-res textures make low-poly games look worse, not better.

>> No.4572530

And here I was thinking the blue palette of Assassins was intentional.

>> No.4572667

That looks fine, in my opinion.

>> No.4572717
File: 213 KB, 512x256, 1508951244303.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.4572836

why are builders allowed to use magic, wouldnt that be pagan

>> No.4573365

They're priests using holy builder magic (like any D&D universe priest uses holy magic). The Hammers are also not enemies of the Hand Brotherhood and magic is their entire shtick.

>> No.4573581

I can't find the exact quote but there is a Hammerite saying that goes something like: "...not all iron is from The Builder, just like not all wood is from The Trickster."

>> No.4573609

How many cigars do I have to smoke to get Garrett's sexy voice?

>> No.4573661

Well Karras I made it, despite your directions.

>> No.4573702

It's about how fast you can smoke them. A master thief could smoke empty a room full of cigars in a matter of seconds without leaving any trace. That's the way to follow.

There was this one FM that actually referenced a legendary burglar capable of eating all the food in a kitchen in an instant. I don't remember which one though. I like when FMs show love for both the game's world and its most game-like aspects.

>> No.4573714

>I clapped because I knew what that is: the post.

>> No.4573769

That was in Disorientation.

>> No.4573781
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>> No.4573808

The Dark Engine is very ad-hoc, there'd be little use to licencing it

>> No.4573814

Do you remember any of the book?

>> No.4574032

whatefack is with the face?

>> No.4574074

>not knowing Garrett's original Thief 1 DromEd face

>> No.4574121

Can i skip Gold? I'm not having fun and from what i heard this game devolves into fighting zombies in mazes anyway.

Will i know whats going on in 2?

>> No.4574128

Thanks. I should start taking notes while playing FMs or I don't know how I'll be able to remember these little details the further I go.

>> No.4574132

Gold has a lot more human missions, actually. I like it more than TDP excluding the downwind thieves guild mission. You might want to go over some crucial story details like the fact that you fooled and murdered a trickster god and ended up paving the way for the main antagonists in the sequel before starting 2

>> No.4574135

None of the games devolve into fighting anything. The first game just has more monster-themed missions. I'd recommend playing Gold just for the atmosphere. Also if you really hate monster missions that much, then you're in for a shock because the worst mission in the game (and the trilogy) puts you against plain ol' regular humans.

>> No.4574145
File: 13 KB, 514x334, t1 mission types.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I did some very complicated calculations

>> No.4574340

What do you dislike so far? Themes and level design will change but the core of the game stays pretty much the same through T1-T2.

>> No.4574520

You don't like Thief so don't bother.

>> No.4574573
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>> No.4574623

I dont like standing 2 feet from someone facing directly towards me but being invisible because the spot im standing in is slightly shaded.

>> No.4574731

Are you referring to this?

There's the Ultimate Difficulty Mod, but that's for Thief 2?

>> No.4574750

There are precisely zero stealth games that have shadow-based stealth but also your dark silhouette against a bright background makes you visible to enemies. Graphics processors are not yet powerful enough to actually process AI vision graphically. And they never will because as technology improves, expectations about graphical quality increase, so there will never be that extra processing power to be used elsewhere.

>> No.4575049
File: 987 KB, 1121x1177, tumblr_ok0cnny0jT1w0zjvdo2_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I think I remember seeing shots of a big cathedral, and plenty of Karras talking/doing things. It's lost to me now though.


I wish T2 Gold had been released, because from the description of Fallen Hammers we'd have gotten a tonne of Karras backstory. Disappointing.

>> No.4575746

Play the game on a CRT with proper brightness set and you'll find that slightly shaded spot to be pitch black darkness.

>> No.4577113

the Rose of Bantry

>> No.4577137


>> No.4578149

if you're not applying Thief-sneaking-shadow-living-strategies in your everyday life, you are just a plebeian casual-scum.

>> No.4578217
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The old ass engine and the crt death made it difficult to explain to normies what is so good about Thief, really wish there was a modern adaptation with the same sound design.

Saw a thread on /v/ on the front page talking shit about Thief that made my blood boil.

>> No.4578247

how the fuck did sound design regress since TDP?

I don't play a lot of modern fps, but I always assumed that the mechanics in thief 1 and 2 had become the norm, or even replaced by more sophisticated mechanics, by now. but as teef shows, this clearly isn't the case. it got worse in all aspects.

the meme says that old games were more innovative and new games are more technically sophisticated, but the example of thief also shows aspects where new games have a lower technical sophistication.

>> No.4578271

Sound propagation technology from the perspective of pure aural experience has advanced, but nobody has utilized it in relation to gameplay to the extent that TDP uses the level of tech it has.
As atrocious as Hitman: Abortion is, I remember it having extremely good sound propagation that is in no way gameplay-relevant. And ironically the worst sound design I've ever experienced was in Thi4f. Completely arbitrary volume for everything, monaural vocals for hidden NPCs having conversations outside level structure, zero sound muffling in areas where muffling has to happen, and a lot of inexplicable muffling in areas where there should be none. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hG99MPZrrQ&index=2&list=PLmqYHnLFUbaIZBNfY4prU7P1npPzA201x

>> No.4578297

did we ever get a proper explanation as to why they fucked the sound up so bad? everything else was explained with the "can't have gameplay in the current year" meme, but if sound propagation has gotten better, then there's clearly no excuse for them not to have it in the game.

>> No.4578302

Thi4f was just another job, nothing was put into it much less passion. Fuck Canada.

>> No.4578308

They fired their initial actually talented sound designer halfway through the project. He had a really cool idea for the background music too. Some kind of procedural ambient generator that could dynamically alter the ambience of every environment based on all of the little details surrounding the player combined with a specific theme of that place. In the end the game ended up having traditional meh ambient and "combat music" that's always the same regardless of the mission.

>> No.4578369

It didn't regress, Thief just happens to be well above the gold standard to this day since Looking Glass had proper audio engineers working on their games instead of just some untalented schmucks like nearly everyone else

>> No.4578424

The funny thing is that the people responsible for Thief's gameplay-integrated audio design went to produce the Rock Band games. ie. games focused on gameplay-integrated audio design. Eric Brosius never stopped doing what he does, he just wasn't working on immersive sims because no one was working on immersive sims.

>> No.4578451

Since we're on the subject of audio, Eidos Montréal just yesterday posted a video on Youtube of an orchestra playing music from Thi4f. That shitty music that some random frog composed after they fired Paul Weir. (And abandoned Stephen Russell)

>> No.4578457

I fucking hate with all fibers of my being that fucking cesspit of sjw infested, mouth breathing mongoloid game development companies centred in Montreal.

>> No.4578605

The biggest companies in Montréal may be mouthbreathing mongoloids but I don't think they're SJWs. Capitulating to the demands of media with an agenda doesn't mean that you necessarily support their agenda. I haven't seen much actual pandering from the side of Ubisoft and I haven't seen any from Eidos Montréal. No theme in the Far Cry games that is tangentially related to social justice fails to point out its negative sides or that advocates of a specific type of justice may not feel that strongly about justica as a whole. Deus Ex may have an obviously gay side character but that detail is never mentioned because it isn't relevant, and one of the main characters is a secular Dearborn muslim but that's because it's fucking Detroit.
The only agenda-driven thing I can think of right now is censoring the Far Cry 4 box art because a bunch of retards thought that the asian villain was white and therefore they couldn't stand seeing him visibly oppressing an asian person on the cover.
Canada may be a cesspool of political correctness but from my experience the French Canadians are the the smallest offender in that regard.

>> No.4578986

>Capitulating to the demands of media with an agenda doesn't mean that you necessarily support their agenda.

Say what?

>> No.4579129

I think that if a conglomeration of ideological media outlets threatens use their influence to annihilate your company's image and cause massive profit losses unless you do a thing, then doing that thing makes you no more a supporter of their ideology than paying ransom to a terrorist makes you a terrorist. When someone has the power to globally label you Literally Hitler unless you change a game's box art, you can either stick to your principles and be destroyed by your shareholders, or give in to their demands and resume normal operation. Sure you've made the precedent that these scum have the power to change things they want to change, but with companies that are this big people usually have no choice. And it definitely does not make them part of the gang extorting them.

>> No.4579137
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the thief setting, as seen by the end of TDP

>> No.4579140
File: 107 KB, 1024x423, manhattanpanorama1906-1024x423.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

the thief setting, as seen by the beginning of TMA.

what happened?

>> No.4579230
File: 1.02 MB, 1366x768, dump000.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Is it possible for an AI to switch between attributes?
Machine on --> AI>Attributes>Hearing>null
Machine off --> AI>Attributes>Hearing>Average

>> No.4579262

the mechanists

>> No.4579338

-Old castles and stone brick buildings owned by the poor peasants and "middle-class" lords in the oldest sections of the City
-Plus a more modern victorian architecture opera house that stands out from everything else
-Brand spanking new mansions of the ruling elite in the countryside
-Mechanist-modernized architecture
-New buildings in areas of the City so new that they actually have block grids to some extent, and highrise housing
-Plus old stone brick peasant-class architecture in Wayside that stands out from everything else
-Old stone brick architecture everywhere
-The whole game takes place in the oldest parts of the City because of the Final Glyph
-Plus a victorian architecture mansion outside the City that stands out from everything else

I don't really see much inconsistency when you take into consideration that all of the games take places in totally different areas. There's some overlap, but that's why it isn't all completely different. The opera house in Thief Gold isn't medieval, and the Wayside market district isn't victorian.

>> No.4579450

did they invent a time machine or something?

>> No.4579483
File: 308 KB, 1024x768, 1496527485654.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Let the spooking commence.

>> No.4579490

Is that that h3h3 faggot

>> No.4579891

I thought the same godamn thing

>> No.4580359
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Yes. A time machine that lets you travel in the present.

>> No.4580642

That was an amazing mission.

>> No.4581061

What is the lore behind The Circle of Stone and Shadow?

>> No.4581117

A new Warden called Master Nightfall established his operation in The City to rival the likes of Webster, Raputo and Ramirez. But instead of engaging in the regular mobster tactics that all of the other Wardens like doing with large gangs of gangsters, Nightfall decided to recruit and train a select few high-end professional covert operatives, kinda like splinter cells. These agents would work secretly behind enemy lines subtly manipulating things from the shadows instead of using violence, threats or other primitive mafia tactics. Nightfall and his agents are known as the Circle of Stone and Shadow.
I didn't verify any of this so it might be wrong. I just recalled things from back when Gathering At The Inn was first released.

>> No.4581330

I knew who made this one the instant I read of the "no women" blackjack restriction. I wonder how many of these first authors we're gonna see again from this point onward.

>> No.4581372

iirc The Tower had a woman you weren't allowed to blackjack because she was pregnant.

>> No.4582016

Yeah, I remember her. I think she was the one you gave the property deeds to.

>> No.4582659

Are there any good before/after comparisons for all of the model/texture updates in tfix and tafferpatcher? I can't find good images anywhere. My TDP playthrough was done with all of the tfix boxes checked except the legacy engine. Everything looked great (except the chests, too high res) but I want to know if that was stupid, or if I missed out.

>> No.4583212

Something that amateurs like to do is make these HD textures look clean as fuck. Yes, they look shiny and HD, but they also look like they're always freshly polished and nobody actually lives there.

It's funny how professionally made textures from 20 years ago, made with inferior technology, still trump what an amateur does on much superior technology.

>> No.4583224
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a few colour tweaks would work wonders for that pack.

but even then, the issue of the awkward combination of low poly models and high res textures would persist. also this: >>4583212

>> No.4583226

T2 models and textures have no business in T1. T1 has it's own art direction, as seen in >>4565390

>> No.4583317

Those textures from 20 years ago have a 'film grain' to them, it seems.

>> No.4584243

Are you sure it's Lady Rowena who made this?

>> No.4584303

It's in The Tower, so yes that's her.

>> No.4584364

Oh no, in the case of The Rose of Bantry I meant the same author of Shadow Business, which also included the no women rule.

>> No.4584587

>>>/v/406558987 here
I didn't get to reply to any responses because I had to leave.
I'm on Windows 7. I install Thief through Steam and then extract TFix Lite into the install directory per instruction, overwriting THIEF.EXE. Game crashes on startup. I tried following the tips in troubleshooting.txt but the one about display resolution was the only one relevant to me, and it didn't help.

>> No.4585579

Are you sure that Steam isn't freaking out and reacquiring files that it thinks have been corrupted? I've had that problem with some games and had to set the new files extracted into the install directory as "read only" to prevent Steam from tampering with them.

>> No.4585632
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>have a dream about thief
>completely fail stealth at every turn
>guards always turn around at the right second
>alarms are always getting turned on
>dreams even include repeated quick loads

I hate this.

>> No.4585672

I copied the game from the steam folder to C:\Games and don't launch it through steam, which works for my regular installs, so I don't think Steam itself could be causing it (but before that I also tried launching it through steam and that didn't work either).

>> No.4585684

That has literally never worked for any games I've ever had on Steam. If it isn't installed where Steam mandates it to be, the game will not launch. Most of the time it doesn't even let me launch from the executable. Steam is not a store that sells you games, it's a DRM that tells you how you can play the games that they own, that you have paid to play. You don't have customer rights. You don't decide how you launch the game. Steam does. Because the game isn't yours.

>> No.4585695

Well, it's worked for me with Thief for the last several years and I've been able to freely copy and use it on other computers. Same with Quake, when I was a dumbass who actually bought Quake on steam.

And as I said, TFix Lite doesn't work even if I leave it in the Steam folder so I'd think it's unrelated.

>> No.4585740

However, I tried a fresh install and set all the files to read only and launched it through Steam like a good boy and it worked. Indeed, it now works even if I move it over to my other folder (I don't even remember why I did that in the first place).

>> No.4585828

Playing Undercover for the first time. There are a lot of gold and important hammers to steal, but fuckers are looking at them 24/7. Am I supposed to just blackjack everyone and drag the bodies to shadows?
I tried luring them away with arrows but they either don't react or start attacking me/sounding the alarm if they see me with a bow

>> No.4586116

The only way to finish the mission undetected is to blackjack everyone who might notice that something is wrong or missing.

>> No.4586138

your cover will be blown as soon as they notice that something is wrong. it's impossible to ghost this mission and still get all loot.

>> No.4586162

It's impossible to ghost the mission on Expert, period. The minimum loot requirement is so high that you will eventually have to steal something that someone will notice missing and will immediately run to sound the alarm.

>> No.4586173

and in spite of this, there are still people who argue that garrett has never been seen, blackjacked anyone or left a trace in the canon.

>> No.4586206

I don't think it's sensible to suggest he has never blackjacked anyone because very few mission objectives mandate zero blackjacking and one mission mandates several unnecessary ones. Undercover is impossible to ghost, however if you assume that Garrett does actually use his blackjack which is sensible to assume, it is entirely possible if not downright trivial to finish the mission without ever being caught. Garrett went in wearing a disguise, strategically incapacitated the hammerites he needed to remain inconspicuous and slipped out when the hammerites were scrambling to investigate the talisman alarm.
And all the way from the first mission it's inarguable that Garrett does leave some evidence of his intrusion. Afterall the mission starts with pickpocketing the wellhouse guard, and it isn't possible to place keys back onto guards' belts. A claim against something is disproven by a single piece of evidence of that something.

>> No.4586228

kek, that's what I think every time I see it.

>> No.4586558

Okay, now I also can't find the switches. The one "near brother what'shisname" and some keyhole tree or something like that, found the others.
Which fucker even is that. I checked even the statues and tombs, been at the inquisitor and high priest so many times...

>> No.4586578

the keystone switch is unfair as fuck. everyone realises that it's somewhere in the garden, but it's hard as fuck to find the location in the garden. it's the original shitty switchhunt.

if you go into the garden, you'll notice that the wall has a ornate rim that goes along it. check on the insie of this rim, on the opposite side of where you enter the garden.

as for brother thomas, you should find him if you search the areas you mentioned properly. make sure to read any plates you see.

>> No.4587017
File: 144 KB, 640x364, 1232131231.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


it's really not that complicated.

>> No.4587028
File: 1.01 MB, 1366x768, keystone.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

ah, yes. so all you have to do is find the vault in the garden?

funny fact: iirc there isn't a single vault in the mission.

>> No.4587135

I finished the level. I also had a bunch of keys that... didn't open anything? At least I didn't find any use for them. Knocked out 75% of the temple, also.
Interesting mission. The switches seems somewhat obvious in hindsight... but the garden one could've had better hints. I thought I should be looking near a plant, or like the two red flowerbeds or something.

>> No.4587789

The "keystone" in Keystone Tree has nothing to do with actual keystones. It's just one tree among others.

>> No.4587903

Look down the garden from the balcony and you can see the disposition of those trees happens to resemble this picture >>4587017 and the switch is located directly behind the "keystone" tree

>> No.4587982

What are the the three seemingly random trees in the middle meant to represent in the arch diagram? Surely they can't just be there randomly to suggest that all of the tree placements must be random and any shapes discerned must be coincidental? Surely they can't just be there to make sure that only people who know to look for an arch configuration of trees will be able to discover an arch configuration of trees?

>> No.4588234

u mad?

>> No.4588267

well not really because when I was 10 years old I recognized the English language word "tree" and knew that only a few places in the mission have trees. Nobody would have a switch embedded into a tree or into the grass so it must be next to a wall. And because one of the switches was already found in the ceiling of another location, if the switch isn't in a wall next to a tree, it has to be in the ceiling next to a tree. So that's where I found the switch. It wasn't because of some trees in a garden happening to form an arch if you're specifically looking for trees that form an arch among others that don't and selectively ignore the ones that don't.

>> No.4588876

Finished RttC. What a ride. What fucking fetching tho.
The game kinda bugged. I played on Hard, and after carrying the first body the ghost thanked me and told me to touch the upper right part of a mural, and then dissapeared while a voice said I had to carry a second body. Clicking the mural did nothing, so I dragged the other brother and then the ghost gave me a key for the explosive charge.
So, what's up with the mural? From what I gathered it doesn't do anything?

>> No.4588889

Are you sure he didn't say Brother Murus?

>> No.4588958

clicking the mural opens a secret room in the same area where you can find some fire arrows and mines I think, nothing really that important.

>> No.4589263

Yes they have a choice. Yet the West just gets staler by these traitors.

>> No.4589735

I found a key on a guard on the ground floor in Masks but I couldn't find a door or chest to unlock with it. Was it for something like a chest in the guard barracks?

>> No.4589860

>they can't ghost levels in one take
Fucking taffers get out of my game!!!

>> Undead
Don't give a taff about them. Get detected, just run.

I think I watched your videos a couple months back, good stuff.

>> No.4589869

I think it's an interesting idea that literally everyone except the weak-willed brainwashed guards and the mentally insane (like Karras) are actually believers in the Builder. Kind of like that one story from Lem's Star Diaries where the guy lands on a planet full of robots and disguises himself as one so as not to be killed, then discovers that EVERYONE is a human disguising himself as a robot for the same reasons as him.

>> No.4589880

How exactly does Styx encourage a clean way of sneaking? It does quite the opposite, in my experience. To get the maximum amount of XP, you should replay each level at least once, because there is no way you'll stay undetected AND collect all the goodies AND finish the level within the time limit.
The "race" playthroughs are always the most fun to me, I go all-out with the Amber abilities and tools (keeping only like 1 throwing knife as a backup) rushing through everything as fast as possible. And if you manage to STILL stay undetected, you feel like a God.

>> No.4589931

I can ghost missions in one take, but it does take compromises. For example I would never attempt to 100% any mission while simultaneously ghosting and ironmanning. When something is unreasonably difficult to accomplish without saving, I'd rather not try it at all than to savescum to accomplish it.
Also some missions where the objectives include mandatory knockouts, I think it's basically nonsensical to attempt to ghost the rest of the mission. Afterall one piece of incontrovertible evidence of a break-in is enough and any more simply does not matter. The only thing that justifies it in the end of the day is Garrett's egomania. Even though most of what he does any given moment during a mission is a tactical choice, it's all still filtered through his desire to do things the hard way so he could feel a sense of accomplishment. Otherwise there would be no hard killing restrictions with game overs.
Styx encourages some restrictions but forces none. But it's clear that the game doesn't expect you to be completely stealthy, completely non-lethal and extremely fast at the same time. You'd have to be insane to map out a level in a way that lets you precisely execute every step so it's fast, you visit every secret, you kill no one and no one sees you. I've seen those ghost runs of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and all it does is completely break your immersion. You're literally exploiting the way the videogame was created in order to find that one specific narrow path through with zero improvisation or adaptation. It's no longer a game, it's choreography.

>> No.4589984

>>they can't ghost levels in one take
>Fucking taffers get out of my game!!!

That's not the point and you know it, faggot. Look at videos like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGYsPbbZBU0, where the guy is constantly saving, reloading, saving, reloading, and just behaving pants on head retarded in-game there's no real point to the game.

Ghosting is fine, as long as you actually know what you're doing and don't have to savescum every 5 seconds because you're a damn plebe.

The true patrician way of playing is taking whatever the game throws at you and continuing. Saves are only for when you're leaving off for later. It feels much more immersive to play that way than to reload because a guard smelled your fart 2 miles against the wind, or dropping off something improperly and taking 1 point of damage.

Nigger I figured this shit out when I was twelve, and I had no architectural skills whatsoever to know what a keystone is.

>> No.4590242

>I figured this shit out when I was twelve
Well, I was ten, English is not my native language, and I did not notice an arc among a configuration of trees that happen to include an arc in addition to other random trees that break that pattern and make it harder to see an arc. So even if I did know the English term "keystone" all I saw was trees. Not an arc of trees, just a few trees and a couple of trees, when actually they do form an arc, if you ignore the couple of trees and only take into account the few trees. So I ended up finding the switch like this >>4588267
A much harder puzzle was finding the keeper library in Haunted Cathedral because I had no idea what "grotto" means and I'm pretty sure I still don't know. "Illuminate" was also not a word I was familiar with, though there isn't much the player can do with fire in this game. "Pedestal" I did end up finding in the dictionary. -You know, one of those huge thick books that people used to use before internet translators. Still it wasn't exactly intuitive because the pedestal gives you no indication that you're doing something by standing on top of it.

>> No.4590921

That video is from a guy who primarily plays Supreme Ghost because that is what interests him though. Supreme Ghost being no first alerts allowed at all means that if he wants to do that he has to savescum.

Yeah obviously it's not the most fun way to play the game for 99.9% of people but if that's where he wants to dedicate his autistic superpowers then so be it.

Doing Supreme Ghost in 1 take would be literally impossible. I have no doubt this guy is able to 1 take Ghost though if he put his time to it instead of his Supreme Ghost savescum addiction.

>> No.4591845

Supreme ghosting makes no sense anyway because if you go out of your way to never be even a moment's flicker in someone's peripheral vision or a tiny creak of wood upstairs, then you're basically wasting your time. You see, even if you personally never contribute to any guard's perception of an intruder, it's still highly likely that they did think they saw or heard something that night. In this case what they think they saw or heard was in fact actually nothing. A shadow of a bird flying across a window outside. Beams settling from temperature changes during the night. They reacted to it, and dismissed it as nothing. Just like they react to and dismiss fleeting detections of Garrett as nothing. I believe the term is called Diminishing Returns. At some point in your strategy of Supreme Ghosting, it becomes entirely pointless because the idle sensory faults of people constitute the minimum baseline of percieved but dismissed detections. Those faults will be attributed to the intruder even if they are false detections and even if the intruder was never seen or heard for an instant by anyone.

>> No.4591891

The game had its tricky puzzle moments, sure, but nothing so obscure that you couldn't figure out.

Let me just say that I didn't figure this shit out immediately anyhow. Most playthroughs of any given mission ended up me having like 6-8+ hours on the save timer. I never used quicksaves as a kid. So if I got stuck on a puzzle like that I would walk around the level and try to deduce what the meaning of the puzzle could be.

In Undercover you get a scroll that spells out where the switches are. I'm pretty sure that the keystone one is mentioned to be in the garden, so I asked my parents what a keystone is and figured it out from there eventually.

Now the Cathedral puzzle was a different story. The Eye tells you there's a Keeper hideout nearby in a grotto. The important info here was "Keepers", because if you were observant you will have found a round pool with a raised platform in the middle and a Keeper statue with 2 torches beside him. It's basically the only solution to that part of the puzzle. It took me much longer to drop heavy shit on the pedestals to open the gates, and even longer not to trip the wallcrushing trap in the corridor.

>> No.4592830

The first FM with a gallows?

>> No.4593258

why is this thread so slow

>> No.4593315

because it's /vr/ and everyone who has played thief has probably talked about it to death over the past 20 years

>> No.4593440

Definitely. It's interesting how a detail like this, without a specific use, can be so relevant in the characterization of a mission and its setting, so easy to remember. We already played small city missions (maybe just one, The Living City) this one marks a good step forward. Good map too.
But I'm playing it too slowly. Perhaps it's the pitch black shadows, maybe some design choices. Did you find both entrances to the temple?

>> No.4593935

How do I get Thief Gold working on Windows 7 without TFix or NewDark or any of that stuff? I've tried with just DDFix but even though the resolution worked, the game ran way too fast and there were no footsteps

>> No.4593953

Try compatibility mode for windows xp, it's either service pack 2 or 3 if I remember correctly. Check the cutscenes and game work and you should be good. Doors tend to disappear a lot though.

>> No.4593962

Still runs way too fast while looking like this
I'd like to run in software mode too ideally, since I've seen it done before

>> No.4593964
File: 77 KB, 1280x720, IMG_20180217_013141_610.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

fuck, forgot image
I took a picture instead of a screenshot since screenshots aren't working

>> No.4593973

Can't help you then, you could try asking on ttlg maybe?

>> No.4594059

Update on running Thief Gold in software mode on Windows 7:
Currently runs in software at 8-bit colour depth with no strange colours thanks to a registry fix, but the game runs way too fast still

>> No.4594131
File: 624 KB, 1920x1080, dump004.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Here is my normalfag review of Augustine's Revenge.

Ambitious design with fun rewards for exploring everything, but the level design is exasperating and occasionally misleading.
My favourite thing about it is the storytelling and the many "acts" of the mission. I also enjoyed some janky acrobatics.
My least favourite thing about it is the cramped, transitionless, labyrinth design and the shitload of keys.
Definitely not an easy map if you don't have a keen sense for finding secrets and orienting themselves.
The custom voices are fucking hilarious.
I had a good time and it held my attention. It almost gave me too much to explore, but no stray path ever branched and wandered excessively. Good judgement by mapmaker.
I got seriously stuck at a mandatory passage (trying to get to the third floor). All I could do was run around and sextuple check every room.
The loot placement and amount is often creative, but just as often unbelievable.
Guard placement was sometimes challenging, but mostly never demanded much strategy to bypass.
I was very eager to be done with it by the end.
I would not recommend this as a must-play or play-before-others, but there's too much effort in it to not check out sometime.

>> No.4594132

On your way to the temple you have a t-section. Each path provides an entry.

>> No.4594136

There's something about the crappily built labyrinth cityscape that appeals to me.

>> No.4594143 [SPOILER] 
File: 1.09 MB, 1920x1080, 1518869814549.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It's tolerable in the more open spaces, but all of those sharp angles in shoulder-width corridors kind of got to me. It's impressive for a one-man project, for sure.

>> No.4594410

>room full of locked chests
>they all have to be lockpicked
>not a single guard around
This is always profoundly cruel.

>> No.4594630

I didn't expect a vertical element in this FM, I really underestimated it. I didn't expect an alarm system on a ship too so things got pretty rowdy in there, but that's part of the fun. It's definitely an unique enviroment and a nice addition to the stuff TDP alone doesn't offer.
I thought invincible servants were meant to make everything more difficult, but they completely ignore Garrett, and so all those restrictions that take half of the objective list don't pose a problem.

>> No.4594737

>14k loot

Is this normal for FMs?
t. dumb anon who has never played any FM

>> No.4594969

I was just thinking what, from a game design perspective, what the point of locks are. The obvious one is that it creates massive tension in patrol-heavy areas and requires extra timing and strategy, but why are they put in empty areas? They force downtime, which isn't intrinsically negative, but I don't think I've seen them used strategically in that sense.

Maybe it's so subtle I appreciate it without even realizing it.

>> No.4595034

Not in the slightest, it's just what that author is obsessed with for some reason. He likes to put gigantic piles of loot all in one place and remove any meaning and satisfaction to picking it up and hearing the jingle. If you're going to get into FMs I would suggest staying away from Bryan Gleason's garbage until you're at least familiar with how FM author autism works.

>> No.4595375

was anyone else's immersion broken with the "cameras" in cragsleft? fantasy game and all that but it felt like an anachronism

>> No.4595448
File: 90 KB, 480x640, 2e96fdb0c9cc25f37220e8d03bcb9984[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

it's not a camera, it's a periscope

>> No.4595565

They also give a sense of importance for what said locks conceal. When a locked door stops my semi-mindless initial exploration of a mansion I know I've found something different, it catches my attention. Even more if a key is needed.
What's important is not confusing this potential with realism. I understand that it's only logical that every guard in the barracks wants to protect his few arrows or coins but this takes away any value from every other lock.

>> No.4595929

but who was periscope

>> No.4596449


They are locked because that's what locks are for: Securing items against being stolen.

Here's my take on locks, keys and lockpicks in Thief OMs and FMs. OMs handle locks perfectly. Usually your lockpicks will be able to open most locks, and there will be 1 or 2 chokepoints in which you can only use a key. Let's call these unique locks. These are either part of the primary objective, or some special secondary objective, and sometimes it's just a secret piece of loot like Mynell's steak recipe.

FMs like to handle locks this way: 1-2 locks that you can use your lockpicks on, bullshit amount of different keys for every other door in the level. Most of the doors - wooden or not - are also not bashable. In Thief you could always forego the stealthy option of lockpicking/finding a key by bashing doors down if they were wooden. FMs like to rape this sense of choice by turning it into adventure game logic, where you can only progress if you've found every key in the game.

In Thief 1, getting the lockpicks was a big deal. Before you got them, every locked door had to be opened by switch or stealing a key. Now you were handed essential items for breaking and entering that opened virtually every door for you. And that's how lockpicks *should* make you feel, after all, that's why people use them in real life: to break into places that you'd normally need a key for.

Therefore I don't think it annoying or unrealistic that small chests with no/insignificant loot are locked. That's just what it's like. Workplace lockerrooms usually only have clothing, maybe some food or drink, casual shit. People still lock those things though.

>> No.4596454

It rips the realism from the game as well as the sense that the guards are actual people. How often has anyone in this thread at any given night freaked out about seeing something when it was just a shadow moving, something going bump in the night, or some other regular phenomena? Tons of times. Supreme Ghosting involves going through the level and just seeing every AI operating like clockwork. No confusion, no interaction, no searches or slight states of alarm. You know, regular shit guards might do whether you are there or not.

I'm not forbidding him to do as he likes, I'm arguing that it's a retarded way to play and it's a retarded thing to aspire to or encourage in Thief threads. It's a strategy so specific and removed from natural gameplay that I feel the need to voice how stupid it is.

And I don't think that supreme Ghosting would be impossible in one take. I think - depending on the mission - it involves the player knowing the map ahead of time and *taking* their time moving through it. Most of the reloads occur because the player wants to cut a stealth section short, i.e. moving to quickly, loudly, or visibly when they really should slam down on the shift key and move through deep shadows. So it's not even a decent ghosting attempt.

>> No.4596637

I mean u clearly haven't watched even one of that guy's videos. He takes it as cautiously as he has the time for and it still takes upwards of 3hours for each mission.

I'm not trying to argue it isn't a retarded way to play, but I also think normal ghosting is a retarded way to play, but if people want to do it then so be it.

>> No.4596869

Because of the mess I made on the ship, I think I've lost track of the guards' placement in this mission. There's two in the guardhouse near the gallow and a lot of them on the ship, right?
After escaping from the Rose of Bantry I had to deal with four guards looking for me in the streets. It was probably for a mistake I made, like leaving a knocked out hammerite near the temple's entrance, but did they appear out of thin hair or did I just miss them at first?

>> No.4597030

What the fuck do I do in Escape.
There's a million of buggers in every hall. should I really try sneaking past everything? Or even just run through everything and hope I get lucky?

>> No.4597124

I checked with Dromed. When you open the moneybox, 2 bow man and 2 BaffGuards teleport in the map.

>> No.4597725
File: 952 KB, 1920x1080, dump001.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Normalfag FM reviews continued: Please tell me top stop if this is gay edition.
Today's mission: Geller's Pride

Ah, now this is a thinking man's mission. Great attention to detail in all respects.
My favourite thing about it is how it's so concise, yet has depth and multiple ways to approach things.
My least favourite thing about it is the riddle for the final item. Too vague and too many interpretations for me.
A veteran player will be rewarded for his honed habits, and it feels good each time when one's intuition leads to a breakthrough.
There's a fun story in this mission, and the notes that connect the dots also hint to the player where something might be. Expert pacing and placement.
The unique guard mechanic in the mansion is an A+ idea, however, there isn't enough punishment for messing it up. Seems to be a fault of the AI.
Although the mansion is the focus of this mission, the area(s) outside of the walls are well developed and have some pleasing elements.
Loot was not a significant challenge, it trickled in naturally.
Guards weren't too difficult, so much as they made me stop and plan alternate routes.
I wished there was a little more to it by the end, but brevity is the soul of wit, and I was thankful for the experience.
I would definitely encourage anyone to make this a priority play.

>> No.4597729
File: 799 KB, 1920x1080, dump003.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

My ending screen too.

>> No.4598010

Am I the only one who feels like a dick when killing burricks? When they start making that whining noise and running away I want to go and hug them and say sorry

>> No.4598070

I had some problems with that too. unlike the mechanists, the hammerites shouldn't have the precursor technology required to construct intelligent robots. that should mean that it's implied that a hammerite is monitoring those cameras in a control room somewhere. however, that control room never appears in the game, and that breaks the worldbuilding a bit.

>> No.4598125

Just started replaying the series, interested in getting back into some level editing.

Haven't touched dromed since the mid '00s, whats the best place these days to find resources, tutorials etc to start refreshing myself?

>> No.4598248
File: 1.10 MB, 1920x1080, dump007.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Those monsters are quite slow (and bugbeasts are the slowest enemy in the game, I think) and still vulnerable to your blackjack. Apes in particular have low health, so that balances their number and speed in combat. Still, although it's easy to get cornered in those corridors, it's easier to leave them behind. If a single ape catches you in the process it shouldn't be a problem. If you get in too many fights don't forget that those plums scattered around aren't simple fruits.
If you can't get past a certain zone without fighting, make some frogs explode and don't directly confront bugbeasts.

A scripted event, nice. While I don't always like them as something that interferes with the players' objective, unless it's really well played, I enjoy them when they're a consequence of the player's actions. It feels like a natural development of the mission's plot, directly experienced by the player. Sure, they can be pretty intrusive, but four guards patrolling the previously empty streets are fine.
While the previous mission tried something new design wise, this one had an interesting structure, a connection between two different enviroments, and experimented a little on a technical level, even if it didn't always turn out well.

>> No.4598367

Did anyone else use to make shitty drawings and paintings of Thief related things? Me and my friends loved doing this shit when we were kids. They're dogshit of course, but I picked up that hobby again, still with the skills of a lobotmized 12 year old. I just pick a relatively poignant screen of the game and try to make a screenshot style painting of it.

It's just something about the atmosphere and artstyle of the game that gets the artist in me going.

>> No.4598564

The TTLG editor's guild

>> No.4599035

I used to sketch some of the characters while studying, mainly chaos beasts and the occaional haunt or grimacing guard. During my first playthrough being hunted by such a variety of enemies really stuck with me, and even if I know them well now that impression is everlasting. Part of the charm of these games' atmosphere comes from who populates those dark alleys and dungeons, I suppose.

>> No.4599112

>Part of the charm of these games' atmosphere comes from who populates those dark alleys and dungeons, I suppose.

I feel the same. I'm not a huge zombie fan myself, but I am enticed by the idea of the undead occupying certain parts of the City. Like the Walled off section - in Assassins you can hear some servants talk about how the undead walk there.

Imagine if the undead were simply a part of your City, some of them living in the sewers, in graveyards, catacombs, and abandoned parts of the City. The sheer menace of their slow movement is enough to keep the mundane steampunk setting interesting for me.

Are you any good at art? I'm basically only just getting into it again.

>> No.4599203

Awesome thanks. Good to see ttlg is still going

>> No.4599237


>> No.4599346

How do you recolor parts of the ai skins in Krita?

>> No.4599539

Yeah, I was genuinely happy when I found out that I could just blackjack them too.

I don't wanna stab no dino-puppies

>> No.4599613

Nicked's tutorial is a good overview of the basics.

>> No.4599615
File: 86 KB, 640x480, T1-sketch-burrick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Burricks aren't puppies. They're ponies. Got a mane and everything. Or maybe they're horses if modern pop culture has deteriorated your opinion of real ponies.

>> No.4599620

I've never heard a horse whimper or howl. also, no one ever rides them. they're the feral dog packs of the thief world. just look at how everyone (including garrett) looks down on ramirez for keeping pet burricks.

>> No.4601129

>Are you any good at art? I'm basically only just getting into it again.
Eh, not really. Let's say I never actively tried to improve, staying on the usual level. It's not a field where I feel motivated to try. Luckily monsters can be forgiving when it comes to anatomy or faces. Trying to capture the whole thing is a far more commendable attempt.

>> No.4601245

Nice little video.

>> No.4601270

this until the end of times

>> No.4601653

Just ran through this one and so much came flooding back. Time to start thinking of an actual mission to make

>> No.4601839

Any good black and white fm?

>> No.4601845

I know "A Better Tomorrow" is B&W but I heard that it's spooky

>> No.4601941

Cryptic Realms
also spooky

>> No.4602010

Waterfront Racket is pretty good. It's not your conventional FM as it's pretty on rails, but it does a stellar job at recreating the film noir aesthetic.

>> No.4602072

> A Better Tomorrow
> Cryptic Realms
> Waterfront Racket

All done today and all of them are pretty good

>> No.4602103

Has anyone tried keyboard camera controls? Using a shitty laptop and I don't feel like using the touchpad, plus I don't have a mouse that I can plug in (obviously)

>> No.4602108

it's sub optimal and slow.

>> No.4602656


Tiny man with a Napoleon complex.

>> No.4602828

And no one edits the maps so textures repeat less. That's my beef with HD texture mods.

>> No.4602872
File: 7 KB, 180x321, DromEd_Object_Model_mguard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>A-are you alright? No, no, of course you are not alright. Sorry!

>> No.4603028

This video about the development of TDP has zero dislikes https://youtu.be/qzD9ldLoc3c

>> No.4603039

I really like his voice.
It cracks me up how for this and other videos I've seen, they use the neutral npcs outside Bafford's who don't react to you as examples of the game's ai.

>> No.4603101

>not Droopy

>> No.4603116

>decisions you make have consequences
Look at the babelet

>> No.4603119

>tfw someone could build a real Bafford's manor and you could close your eyes and navigate through the entire thing with ease

Finally, someone gets it.

>> No.4603129

It's not really a decision when in a stealth game you either have to harm a couple of innocent bystanders who have literally nothing to do with your mission, or to not do stealth in order to proceed. You can't honestly be arguing that the thot manor isn't an unnecessary bottleneck that serves no purpose. There isn't even a possibility for those women to go and call the cops so they'd be waiting in the apartment for your return. It's completely pointless. The is no other area in the entire trilogy where on all difficulties you either have to harm people or have to be seen.
And since you pluralized decisions I assume you mean that the golden cherub scene also counts as a decision. It doesn't. You have to read Karras' scripture in order to complete the mission. And you have to do it in a dead end where the only escape route is past the thing that spawns to guard that dead and upon you reading the scripture. There is no such thing as a singular alternative and it can't constitute a choice.

>> No.4603260

>full wall of whining
Not even gonna read all that shit, you're just upset you can't have a 100% perfect clear handed to you by the game on a silver platter. Learn to deal.

>> No.4603386

Maybe you can demonstrate a method to "perfectly clear" that section in a way that requires patience and skill, and careful navigation of a level that was designed around improvisational stealth, as opposed to the official solution among a near infinite array of emergent ways "being handed to you on a silver platter". Without saving of course.
I mean it must be possible, based on what you said. It can't just be a badly designed linear section that isn't compatible with the emergent design of the rest of the game right? I mean that would just mean that you're full of shit which you obviously aren't. Afterall only intellectually honest people are
>not even gonna read all that shit

>> No.4604187

1. You can just walk through the manor with the women without them being able to do much. While it's not too easy to ghost through, I wouldn't lose that much thought over it.

2. The golden child is a scripted event that always happens and is not glitched. It's there to freak the player out.

Thief was not designed around the autistic endeavour to never ever be detected. The game is as much about contingency plans, and planned detections as it is about staying hidden.

>> No.4604270

garrett's voiced line upon entering lady louisa's suite suggests that he's already been noticed, as a part of the mission's narrative. I think it's supposed to be a comic relief.

>> No.4604367

I think that the thot manor works if you consider that T2 Garret is to James Bond as T1 Garrett was to a D&D rogue

>> No.4604969
File: 71 KB, 1366x768, dump000.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What are some real life castles with an oppressive interior? I don't want to copy FMs.

>> No.4604974
File: 269 KB, 800x601, comfy software mode.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>tfw finally got software mode working
Granted, I did it by just straight up running it on Windows 98, but boy is it comfy

>> No.4605052
File: 68 KB, 636x436, pc gamer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.4605053

normalfag gang

>> No.4605057

It's just a weird deviation from normal level design. Every other area in the game is designed to give players the ability to navigate through the various systems any way they choose, but this area is
>>4604270 >comic relief
and you have to go through it and experience the comic relief. It's not at all like the rest of the environmental storytelling in the series where the player stumbles upon something interesting through nonlinear free exploration. You are funneled into this one scene that is absolutely mandatory even though it has nothing to do with the plot or the mission. It's not like the alarm scene in Blackmail where the watch discovers that the sheriff has been murdered.
You know, there were complaints for years after the release of both TDP and TMA that some loot items were impossible to pick up due to a glitch because apparently according to some taffers the game should have been designed around the autistic endeavour to get every piece of loot.
>The golden child is not glitched
Yes it is and has always been. It runs to the kitchen and tries to tug on the servant's shirt but the servant doesn't react. What else could that possibly be for than alerting them of an intruder?

>> No.4605187

In The Unwelcome Guest, you could completely avoid having to go through Lady Louisa's Suite. There was another way close to the area that would become Castle Carlyle in Life of the Party, that would take you to another side of Angelwatch, and you could climb up to the ball room through an open window.

>> No.4605197

Did you use an actual separate PC or should that work with a VM?

>> No.4605303

>Yes it is and has always been. It runs to the kitchen and tries to tug on the servant's shirt but the servant doesn't react. What else could that possibly be for than alerting them of an intruder?

What an inflationary use of the word glitch. The only glitchy aspect of the mechanical cherub would be if it presses a non-existant button in the air - but that hardly matters. The fact that it tries to alert guards and servants and fails is not necessarily a glitch. The first mechnical cherub is a forced encounter, unless you use an invisibility potion.

The consensus is this: The mechanical cherub was likely added by the developers simply to give players a jump. Getting an alert penalty for a simple scare script doesn't make any fucking sense.

On top of that, almost every other stealth game in history has entire levels and segments with forced alerts. Metal Gear Solid has multiple instances where the alarm goes off and you have to break stealth, the Deus Ex games did it, anon anon.

The point is that you're completely over-evaluating two minute, one-off instances in Life of the Party, applying entirely anachronistic ambitions of never being spotted ever, which was never the design paradigm nor how it was played or should be played.

>> No.4605346

>The fact that it tries to alert guards and servants and fails is not necessarily a glitch.
Then what the hell is it? If I wanted to freak out a player with a new creepy mob, I'd have it chase the player with its loud clanging feet making a ruckus and forcing the player to lose it so that he doesn't draw attention. If it doesn't try to run for help, what is it doing. "Not necessarily a glitch" is not a response or a refutation.
>Getting an alert penalty for a simple scare script doesn't make any fucking sense.
Oh, now an alert is a penalty and it makes no sense to force a player to a situation where an alert is unavoidable? I'm sure there isn't anything in this thread or this particular chain on discussion that isn't related to that...
>Metal Gear Solid has multiple instances where the alarm goes off and you have to break stealth,
Metal Gear is and has never been a stealth game. It has fucking boss fights, turret segments and a several minute stairway climb where a literal army of pre-aggroed soldiers come at you as cannon fodder to be put down with a machine gun. It's Kojima's linear setpiece showcase in a James Bond format.
>applying entirely anachronistic ambitions of never being spotted ever, which was never the design paradigm nor how it was played or should be played.
I don't think you're playing with a full deck because the self-contradiction of that sentence is obvious. Implying that something should be something it never was is not anachronistic. Implying that something should be something it used to be but changed in time is anachronistic. Chronos = time

>> No.4605884

I used an actual Windows 98 machine, but since software rendering doesn't use any hardware acceleration, I think it /might/ work on a VM alright, but don't take my word for it

>> No.4606238

Nigger you're taking this instance way too seriously and are getting way too defensive.

A glitch is a goof / hitch. It's when something in a logically programmed system acts differently than intended. Nothing hints at the fact that the mechanical cherub acts different from what was intended which is

1) Spook the player by suddenly appearing
2) Go to alert people, but failing, because it's a mechanical kid that's just goofing around in the guards/servants eyes

A forced alert WOULD be a penalty. Now you can use invisibilty potions to avoid being seen by the cherub altogether, but essentially it is there to scare you, run of, and fail to alert anyone.

Metal Gear Solid is definitely called a STEALTH-action game. Metal Gear is the only proper stealth game I can think of in an 8-bit/16-bit format. Clearly you're talking out your ass. And just because you have boss-fights doesn't mean it's not a stealth game. An assassin that sneaks all the way to his target, fights and kills the target - thus being detected - and sneaks back out doesn't mean he wasn't acting stealthily

On top of that, you don't know what anachronistic means and are being Dunning-Krueger levels of condescending about it. YOUR modern day ambition, likely fuelled by achievements in modern games that reward you for going undetected throughout the entire game, is ANACHRONISTIC to the design philosophy and general playstyle that Thief cultivates and has cultivated since release.

You're essentially whining about 2 tiny instances in a game where it's slightly more difficult to go undetected. Following methods could be employed if you cared for creativity: Use invisibility potions. Use noisemaker arrows. Blackjack people. Distract entities by throwing objects and then passing by them. Just because the game doesn't offer you an easy way out to sneak by everything without any sacrifice, risk or skill to committ to doesn't mean it's badly designed.

>> No.4606921


>> No.4607105

I guess this will not get resolved. I disagree about your definition of a glitch and the intended design of the cherub. There's no evidence either way. I disagree that MGS qualifies as a stealth game due to its contradictory design. That's full opinion and nothing else. Also I still disagree about the thot manor because in all other instances such a high-risk challenge with very small odds of success on all methods except one is an optional extra area, like the turret room in Soulforge. Not a linear mandatory bottleneck in the intro area to the real mission. The worst mission in the trilogy iirc does that too. Thieves Guild has a civilian chef staring down an area that is the only way through to your objective and the only reliable method through is blackjacking*, which I do still think is antithetical to the LGS design philosophy. Especially in a mission where lore-wise it's imperative to never be detected and identified so that you'd have two criminal gangs at each others throats instead of joining forces to hunt you down for screwing with both of them. If you really think about it, tactically it would be wiser for Garrett to actually kill a witness who saw him.
>you don't know what anachronistic means and are being Dunning-Krueger levels of condescending about it.
Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the ambitions of the game not the player and that's where I saw the contradiction and the irony.
*three instances of this in Thieves Guild actually, but one of them you can bypass by applying some ridiculous though surprisingly reliable acrobatics. The designers tried to force you to do one thing but that doesn't always work when your game is Thief, not Thi4f.

>> No.4607116

Escape! is the worst mission I've played. It's just pure trial and error and it's seriously hampering my Thief experience

>> No.4607121

Someone asks Stephen Russell what's his favorite character that he's acted: "I don't like to think about it like that. It's like naming your favorite child."
Someone asks Vin Diesel what his fav-"Riddick."

>> No.4607171

Stephen only says that because he's on the zenijewthesda payroll now and if he said something that isn't Cogsworth or Nick Valentine he'd get a slap on the wrist.

>> No.4607464

city missions are the capeshit of thief fms

>> No.4607550

Not really. Mansions with a dark secret would be the capeshit of thief FMs.

>> No.4607616

those stopped being popular like ten years ago

>> No.4607624


>> No.4607735

Implying his favourite voice acting role was not the drunk bum in the Yellow Tulip (Arx Fatalis)

If there's one thing I've recently learned it's that you can never have enough gothic mansions. The FM scene is literred with poorly done city missions, and very, VERY few gothic horror missions.

>> No.4608031

Is there a way to make blackjacking work from all directions in TDS like it does in the first two? I liked the idea that Garrett could just hit someone in the face that fucking hard.

>> No.4608320

I'm still conflicted about the last three missions of TDP and the small space they've got at the end of the game. They feel like wasted potential, I really like the plot twist, the new enemies and part of the visuals, they could be more than what they are. Quality of the missions aside though, the narrative crescendo is good, and spending more time with beasts and supernatural stuff would give away the mystery and overall impact. The villain centered game comes next after all so there's something for everyone, the Trickster is fine as a last chapter in a game full of different adventures.

>> No.4608343

I dropped TDP at Thieves' Guild.

>> No.4608397

TDP doesn't have that mission, TG does; use GoldToDark to patch your game

>> No.4608483

>dropping a great game because of one shitty level

>> No.4608504

just use the sword, it really isn't that hard

>> No.4608510

I finally beat it. Now it seems like I could've just ran throught it all. If only it was easier to sneak, I guess I would've found it okay.

Also, what's up with the frogs? Can I deal with them in any manner?

>> No.4608521

they can be blackjacked or shot from a distance.

>> No.4608582

either stealth archery or heavy weapons (fire/gas arrows or mines)

>> No.4608682

I lured ape bois and mantids to where they were then shot the frogs.

>> No.4608781


>> No.4609814

What does it mean when a black void starts eating your map in DromEd?

>> No.4609818
File: 51 KB, 825x446, 1499885666874.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

pic related

>> No.4609892

If you use GoldToDark you miss some things that were added in Gold though, like Song of the Caverns which is one of my favourite levels. There's a shortcut that lets you skip a level, just use that.

>> No.4609916

A degenerate cell might cause this. Make sure your terrain brushes are snapped to grid.

>> No.4609947
File: 44 KB, 848x442, 1496433187302.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I guess that must've been it, although the brushes I deleted seemed to be aligned. Fortunately it's just a tiny sketch map I was tooling around with and not something with many brushes to check.
Speaking of which, do you know if there's any particular reason you wouldn't want stairs intersecting an angled surface like this? There's a lot of overhang here that I'd sort out if this was part of an actual mission but in principle, is there anything wrong with it? I ask because stairs have troubled me before.

>> No.4609948
File: 2.42 MB, 1920x1200, 1502325265653.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

For reference.

>> No.4610015

This looks fine to me. I've done much more complex geometry with stairs and DromEd went along with it, so you should be fine.

>> No.4610037

Ok. I made dromed shit itself once with a map that was mostly stairs so I'm cautious about them now.

>> No.4610042

DromEd doesn't like it at all when brushes aren't snapped to grid, but as long as they are and you don't overdo it as far as complexity goes you should be absolutely fine.

>> No.4611134

Just finished replaying Gold today. I'd forgotten how much I disliked those last three missions. In concept they have a lot of potential, but in execution they just feel rushed and inconsistent with the gameplay patterns that the game had established up until that point.

>> No.4611138
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>> No.4611185


>> No.4611559

I require some hammers, brother

>> No.4612162

It's really a shame. Escape is the only one I can't imagine much different from what it is, but what could be behind the premise of the other two still makes me wonder, as if I still had to play them. Cooperating with the Hammerites of all people, exploring an hellish dimension and trying to stop the crazed god of chaos. Garrett just dashes through it and gets the job done. It's interesting how they went for the exact opposite of that with Soulforge.

>> No.4612390
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And more guards depending on difficulty. There's a Hammerite in front of the merchands bedroom on expert. One extra Hammerite covering the back door. Couple more guards on the ship. AIs have different patrol paths. Nice.
My blackjack can't reach the merchand because of the brush of the bed? I'm also able to climb on top of it.

Regarding the previous FM, how would you make a castle more like a maze?

>> No.4612505

Feels very much like they built the levels sequentially for the most part, and ran short of time before the end, while with 2 they might have actually started development of the final mission earlier in the process. Still had their own issues with running out of time though, such as the casing/masks situation.

>> No.4613129

the builder

>> No.4614230

Make it hard to read. As long as it's not nonsensical, make it weird, revamping elements we all know after years of Thief as different. For example kitchens are usually small rooms in the servants area or near the dining room. Fireplace, cutting board, some fella humming near the sink unaware of your presence. What about a big, underground room, where a frenetic work takes place to comply with the requests of a sumptuous feasts? When it's dark and empty it gets hard to tell said kitchen from a slaughterhouse. As long as the player can put the pieces together while he gets to know the place and its story, it can work. Sometimes what we look for doesn't look like what we imagined.
Confusing but varying is good, but avoid a repetition of samey enviroments, or at least don't connect them directly. It would be a proper maze sure, but an annoying one too. A surprising combination of different zones can make the place hard to explore in a fun way. At first the harsh transition between them doesn't help at all, when you're getting the hang of your surroundings everything change, but it usually ends up becoming what helps our taffer find his way through the maze.
At least this is what I gather from the Sword, Rothchest, plus Thieves' Guild as a bad example.

The Rose of Bantry made me notice that inns as a neutral zone, starting point or in general point of interest are another common FM element not introduced by the main game, unless I'm forgetting something.

>> No.4615148

I judge the last 3 missions by how much time it took me to beat them as a kid. Everything but the Maw of Chaos took me at least 6 hours, what with being afraid to move, not finding that scripted sequence where the hammerite gives you a key andsoforth.

I did Maw of Chaos in half an hour. It was dirt easy. Now I can't really come up with a way of improving that level much, but in contrast to Sabotage at Soulforge it falls way too short. That level was a great challenge.

Don't make it more like a maze. Make it like people actually live there - people who have to navigate it on a daily basis. Unless you're going for the bizarre Constantine look. There's a boatload of shitty FMs out there who make pixelhunting for keys and navigating nonsensical, overengineered mazes their prime design choices.

>> No.4616012

I think I need to balance familiarity and confusion. Don't subvert too much. You don't want a residence to be dime a dozen either.

>> No.4616096

yeah, put the furniture on the ceiling

>> No.4616695

I agree, floating stairs should do the trick.

>> No.4617062

RttC sucked, Escape sucked, Strange Bedfellows sucked.

>> No.4617162

Get a grip, pleb. RTTC is one of the best missions in the series.

Also, Strange Bedfellows is underrated as fuck.

>> No.4617171

I guess. Don't commit the same tired mistakes every FM has done before: Creating a maze so confusing that only the creator can know the way through it, don't turn lockpicks, swords and explosives useless by having decorative doors or keyhunt doors, don't have pointless books lying around when there could be short books with hints to beating the level.

I just got done playing the Dracula and Bathory campaigns and I have to say that it was good in the atmosphere and terrible on level design. There by far too many cryptic hidden bullshit, and hunting key no. 23492019 to specific door moments.

Remember that Thief is about player choice. You can beat Bafford's in under 5 minutes if you care to storm the gate, kill everyone in sight, unlock the throne room and nab the scepter. Remember that you could BASH open wooden doors if you so desired. The well house at Bafford's is a good example of great level design: Approachable overtly via street and covertly via sewers, the guard right in front can be pickpocketed for his key (telegraphing) or you can bash the door open to proceed. This is a good example that there is no need to funnel the player through these adventure game style sequences with only one solution.

>> No.4617172

>RttC sucked, Escape sucked, Strange Bedfellows

Spotted the plebeian. Wasn't there a survey on Lytha's website about how plebeians hated the best missions in the game?

>> No.4617965

Only Escape sucks

>> No.4618053

I liked escape. I think strange bedfellows was by far the worst mission in thief gold.

>> No.4618163

Escape at least worked in putting you right out of your comfort zone, which fit the story of the mission.

Strange bedfellows just felt lazy and rushed.

>> No.4618662

I want to replay Thief 2 (already replayed Gold last year). Is Sabotage at Soulforge as hard as i remember? That level was brutal for me when i was kid.

>> No.4619109

In my experience it's harder if you try too hard to destroy or incapacitate enemies. You simply do not have access to the resources to do that whenever you wish. The mission becomes much easier if you prioritize sneaking around enemies over taking them out, which is the reversal that most players didn't understand the first time. Myself included.
>The first room has destroyed Iron Beasts who's bodies you can get rid of. The additional Iron Beasts making their way there will otherwise be aggroed permanently upon "discovering their bodies"
>Avoid camera detection at all costs. Alarms spawn more enemies, and there are already too many. Run straight into the shadows when the mission begins so the camera will lose sight of you.
>Make no noise around servant robots. No need to create additional NPCs that can see you and sound the alarm
>Only take out enemies in isolated areas. It's hard to get rid of the body of an Iron Beast. Do not try to knock out everyone.
>It's completely unnecessary to try to get past the Golden Cherub guarding that one hallway. There's nothing you need back there.
>Don't go into the Turret Room
>Don't go into the Turret Room

>> No.4619246
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>It correlates relatively high with the rating for the most non enjoyable mission (.17 **).
>That means: The people who gave the most non enjoyable mission a really bad rating, did not like THC.
>I have already analysed the group of people who rated the least preferred mission low in Training. No need to do it again (But they were in a short and harsh summary kiddies.)
>So, people who liked this mission were most probably mot very young. And they enjoyed the entire game more

>People who preferred the normal difficulty mode gave 'RTC' a lower score
>The preferred difficulty correlates with the number of times played (.19 **) (the more times played, the higher the preferred difficulty mode) and - most interesting! - with the education (-21 **) (the higher the educational level, the higher the preferred difficulty mode!)
>'RTC' correlates also highly with the number of times played (-.15 *) (the higher the number of times played the higher the rating for 'RTC').
>Now, a short analysis of the people who enjoyed 'RTC':
>They played the game many times. They had a high educational level. They gave the least preferred mission a good score. They, dear interested reader, could indeed be the people who replay the game for several times, and who enjoyed the entire game really much.

TLDR: undead haters are generally uneducated and/or underage, play the game on normal difficulty mode, and give exaggeratedly low scores to missions they don't like.

lytha doesn't mention it explicitly, but it wouldn't surprise me if undead haters also tend to play the game like an action game by killing everyone they encounter.

>> No.4619745

Virgin normal
Chad expert

>> No.4619753

>best anything
Whatever cunt. I loved Haunted Cathedral, Bonehoard and Lost City and they feature Undead in one way or another. Talk to anyone who played TDP and they will tell you that the last missions are the weakest. They are not good.

>> No.4620178

Fogging and weather effects are only possible in TG Fms with the full version of newdark and not Lite, right?

>> No.4620362

Lite is still NewDark, so it might work

>> No.4620632

Well, I tried Endless Rain and the fog and rain were gone. But on ttlg I saw a post by somebody who said they prefer using Lite and they had screenshots of the same mission with all of the effects in place, but I'm not sure if maybe he was using the full version for those screenshots and didn't make it clear. So I was hoping somebody could speak from experience. I had some trouble getting Lite to work at all so it's entirely possible it's a problem on my side.

>> No.4621202

You have to turn on fog and weather in the in-game options.

>> No.4621259

About Shadow of Lord Rothchest, how did you manage to get the sword with all those guards?

>> No.4621268

That was it.
Now I'm having trouble with cutscenes. They work if I start a new game and skip training, but if I start with training or play an FM, they don't work.
I'm also getting a lot of framerate drops, especially when I round corners, which is new.

Any ideas for those?

>> No.4621759

Man, i think Break from Cragscleft Prison is one of the GOAT levels ever made. Mind blowing stuff.

>> No.4621876
File: 687 KB, 1110x1200, karras just right.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Truly, the Builder hath made Karras beautiful so he may rightfully swoon his followers

>> No.4621878
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>> No.4621894

I can't seem to find a download for this one

>> No.4621896
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>> No.4621947
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It is machinery pure from biology, so of course. Merely another means to spread and worship the glory of the Builder

>> No.4621960
File: 277 KB, 521x705, karras in his halls.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This is now a Mechanist thread

>> No.4621972
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>> No.4621981

I too would like to know where to download this

>> No.4622203
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>> No.4622226
File: 71 KB, 408x938, hammerette3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This is now a vile heresy thread

>> No.4622232

droopy pls

>> No.4622239

It seems to be on all the usual sites

>> No.4622454

Got there from the rooftop, lit off the torches that could light my descending path and grabbed the sword from the maximum frobbing distance by lowering myself with a rope. If I remember correctly the beams aren't directly over the sword's location, so while on the rope I was between the pedestal and a guard. Can't remember why I didn't risk leaving from the door, was the floor made of tiles or was the guard too close?
I always resort to water arrows as an extreme measure and I still don't know if I find the idea of making complete darkness descend on a room an elegant solution or a sloppy one. It varies from room to room, I suppose.

>> No.4622528
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>> No.4622920

Thank you both.
Anyone played this FM? I can't find any gameplay footage on youtube so I have no idea what to expect.

>> No.4622941

Go in without expectations.

>> No.4622998

At one point you have to jump a gap from a crouch position (IIRC) to progress. Could be difficult.

>> No.4623002

This community has existed for almost two decades. In the beginning you were lucky to see a couple of screenshots. I know this sounds like an old man yelling at a cloud but you don't really need a video.

>> No.4623013

Thief 1 and 2 are super-cheap on Steam right now (under a dollar each). Should I get 'em?

>> No.4623102


>> No.4623306

Is there points of no return in this fm? I am wandering around a spooky sewage tunnel type area and I can't seem to find any way to progress. There are multiple offshoot rooms that one can crawl into, however they seem to lead to dead ends, and the main tunnel just drops you off into a big pit which kills the player upon landing.

>> No.4623313

Those offshoot rooms should be of interest.

>> No.4623325

searched high and low... can't find anything in there beyond locked doors, objects I can't interact with, and rooms sealed with bars.

>> No.4623346

One of the side rooms is sort of like 2 rooms. It's the one with the open chest. In the smaller part of the room, there are ladders which lead to an upper area. There's a corpse with a key.
And yeah the mission's pretty cryptic and unintuitive. It is a Sperry mission, after all.

>> No.4623370

didn't see that the corpse had a key... damn that's some pixel hunting type shit man.

>> No.4623405
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>> No.4623504
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have people actually beaten this? I have been running around the map for a good hour or so and all I've managed to find is a key which does nothing useful, a compass, and a mine.

>> No.4623538

I think I beat it.
Ended up getting to a vertical mineshaft wherein I was able to climb out. The fact that there was not really an ending of sorts was a bit disappointing, but the atmosphere was incredibly strong and overall the mission was interesting.

>> No.4623802

It was kind of brilliant to build a level around The Shawshank Redemption.

>> No.4623925

Any tips on unironically worshiping The Builder?

>> No.4623940

Build thyself today a good house, that would please Him much.

>> No.4624012


>> No.4624158

Smite thine enemies without mercy, for mercy is but weakness in disguise

>> No.4624615

Oh, well. That's easy. I tried to lure them with an arrow and knock all three out with a gas arrow. Sometimes I forget to think about using water arrows, because I always save them for later.

>> No.4624620

You could make a kickass shrine for him in DromEd.

Actually, I would love a level where you got to play as a Mechanist guard. Just walk around a church with fellow Mechanists, admire the scenery, study scripture, etc. Doesn't even need gameplay.

>> No.4624654

Sabotage is seriously not that hard. It's the perfect sweet spot for final mission difficulty.

What you NEED to do is save up all the building materials from the 3 storage rooms for mines and save those fuckers up for when you desperately need them. Always use water arrows first, then fire arrows, then mines.

In general i followed this rule on my first playthrough: Check how difficult a tower will be to access, if it seems too hard, look for another one, rinse repeat, gradually edging towards riskier ones until you have as much towers as you need.

>> No.4624784

There's also a source of infinite water arrows in the big flooded pipes (I forget exactly where they are)

>> No.4624890

>infinite water arrows
I don't recall a single thing in the series respawning except the Deadly Shadows tutorial water arrows. I'm not sure that kind of code even exists in the Dark Engine.

>> No.4624908

http://www.thiefmissions.com/telliamed/scripts2.html (near the bottom)
Apparently there's a RenewableResource script to regenerate periodically

>> No.4624942

it's not hard, it's just really tedious

>> No.4625186


>> No.4625378
File: 95 KB, 450x1505, IMG_6115.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Built for thyself a Holy Symbol

>> No.4625510

Am I mistaken or is the Pagan Sanctuary from deadly shadows the ruin of Soulforge?

>> No.4625662
File: 45 KB, 465x350, pagan5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You are mistaken. It wasn't even originally supposed to take place inside the City, but far away in the forest like Trail of Blood. They had to hastily throw together some random ruins that the pagans inexplicably live in despite hating manfool architecture, when the game was given its misguided open world treatment.

>> No.4625910

I played Evil Thievery last night and is was very good. The sewers spooked my ass and the city section was ugly but in a cool way.

>> No.4626157

Same here, I always save them for some emergency or important climatic moment, even when I'm right in the middle of it. Usually the presence of undeads works as a deterrent: they're usually harmless but you never really know. Some of the impressions from my very first TG playthrough will never leave me, I guess.
The Sword of Drakul is next, another grim sounding one. This time Garrett is a folk hero, maybe a magic sword will be involved, along with a peculiar objective and a human-undead mix.

>> No.4627604

This thread shall not fall!

>> No.4627629

New thread