/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4492660]

ITT: retro games with shit gameplay that people only like for non-game reasons (e.g. story, writing, music, and so on).

[Anonymous No.4492709]

>>4492660
Scrolling through menus and selecting an option barely passes as gameplay.

[Anonymous No.4492727]

>>4492660
Doesn't that apply to all the Xeno games except maybe the blades? Also, Xardion.

[Anonymous No.4492759]

>>4492660
>>4492727

>Doesn't that apply to all JRPGs?


Fixed that for you.

[Anonymous No.4492826]

>>4492709
This is one of the few jrpgs that actually has massive amount of stuff to do outside the main story. Absolutely retarded post.

[Anonymous No.4492830]

>>4492727
I wasn't aware that people liked Xardion for any reason.

Well, I guess the mech designs are cool.

[Anonymous No.4492842]

>>4492660
But Xenogears is the polar opposite of that. I liked the mix of fighting style and turn based gameplay, but the story is a retarded, pretentious mess with flat, unlikable characters.

[Anonymous No.4492857]

>>4492660
Are those supposed to be invalid reasons to enjoy a game

[Anonymous No.4492858]

>>4492759
That's a bit too wide a generalization, I feel.

>>4492830
That and maybe bits and pieces of the music, though that's very debateable.

[Anonymous No.4492901]

>>4492709
This fuckin guy.

[Anonymous No.4492907]

>>4492830
I think Xardion is cool fuck you rip panthera ;_;

[Anonymous No.4492956]

>>4492826
Chicken racing and a very stiff, crappy snowboarding minigame.

[Anonymous No.4492978]

Shit gameplay
Awful grindy crafting system

How can people defend this shit?

[Anonymous No.4492982]

>>4492660
Final Fantasy IV

[Anonymous No.4492995]

[Anonymous No.4492997]

Obviously this. Savesumming to get hillarious dad jokes in dialogs barely passes as gameplay.

[Anonymous No.4493005]

>>4492997

[Anonymous No.4493018]

>>4493005
Isn't that the entire point of this thread?

[Anonymous No.4493024]

>>4492660
>>4492709
>>4492995
>>4492997
Contrarians, I cast thee into the pit.

[Anonymous No.4493028]

>>4492978
by gitting gud

[Anonymous No.4493057]

>>4493028
>Killing same enemies to rise affinity with one weapon that will get shit in the next area.
>Grind monsters for hours just to get crafting parts
>Once you get good with chain attacks game becomes shit because nothing can hit you but your dmg is awful
>Need for constantly swapping weapons in awful meny
>VERY limited inventory space

Everything else about the game is great,atmosphere,best PSOne graphics,music,level design,even story was actually ok unlike most of the shitty japanese fantasy tier games.

[Anonymous No.4493061]

>>4493057
>>Killing same enemies to rise affinity with one weapon that will get shit in the next area.
not necessary
>>Grind monsters for hours just to get crafting parts
also not necessary
>>Once you get good with chain attacks game becomes shit because nothing can hit you but your dmg is awful
you're doing it wrong
>>Need for constantly swapping weapons in awful meny
I used one weapon and I spent less than 5 minutes every time I went to the workshop
>>VERY limited inventory space
I rarely if ever found enough items to fill up my inventory before I hit a storage chest and that's including finding all the hidden chests

git gud, you suck at videogames

[Anonymous No.4493073]

>>4493061
You are either lying or you just skipped most of the enemies in the game and grinded a little just so you can do some dmg to the bosses.

You constantly need to grind affinities and weapon stats so that they are ACTUALLY useful,and you need to do this in every new area or all your dmg will be 1's or 2's.

What is wrong with chain attacks?Isn't getting good with them the whole point?"Faster" changing stats of your weapons and denying the enemies a chance to attack you constantly.Doing break arts so you can do a LITTLE better dmg?

Fuck this game and its shitty and grindy stat and dmg system.

[Anonymous No.4493081]

>>4493061
And fuck off with your git gud argument,game was piss easy after the first dragon boss nothing could kill me but the problem was that my dmg would rarely be above 10 for every new enemy before grinding the shit out of them with one weapon that will be designated just for that type of enemy.

[Anonymous No.4493090]

>>4493081
Bruh, don’t you know? Anytime a game is shittily designed whether it be mechanics, physics, levels, hitboxes, etc. the go-to defense by these spergs is “git gud” even if you already got good and beat that shit into the ground. Just ask anyone that defends Virgin games.

[Anonymous No.4493112]

>>4493081
>my dmg would rarely be above 10
because you suck and you don't know what you're doing

[Anonymous No.4493152]

>>4492660
Xenogears has a decent enough battle system. The main problem with this game is that it's too fucking slow.

[Anonymous No.4493156]

>>4493112
You mean because I didn't autistically grind that enemy type for 3h so my weapon could hurt it.
Top 10/10 gameplay right there...

[Anonymous No.4493184]

So easy you have to be clinically retarded not to beat it with mashing buttons.

[Anonymous No.4493195]

>>4493156
that is not the reason. you never need to grind at all in vagrant story. the answer is not "use raging ache" or anything stupid like that either.

Here are the things you can do to not suck, that have nothing to do with either grinding nor using the workshop, because you are a stupid child and you need to be told:

>Find hidden treasure chests and use the items inside them
>Use Break Arts
>Use a debuff spell
>Use a buff spell
>Use the correct damage type (even if you use one weapon type, break arts will let you do this)
>Use the correct gems
>Drink more wine (just stop fucking whining)
>Lower Risk
>Maintain PP
>Maintain Durability
>Target the correct body part
>Stop being bad
>Use a staff and just use magic the whole game
>Use your bare hands and just use chains the whole game
>Use literally any weapon and just use break arts the whole game
>seriously stop being so fucking terrible at videogames

[Anonymous No.4493205]

[Anonymous No.4493251]

>>4493195

That's a pretty fucking big list of "just use this" to not suck in an bad game.

[Anonymous No.4493259]

>>4493251
you would have to not be doing almost all of them to suck as bad as the guy I replied to, it would be like playing final fantasy and never buying equipment or items and wondering why the game is so hard, he's literally not actually playing half of the battle system in order to be that bad

[Anonymous No.4493294]

>>4493195
God these fucking threads crack me up so bad.
>these games suck, you have to grind so much!
>what the fuck are buffs, debuffs, affinities, etc! Just let me mash attack!
Morons who think they want a hard or complex battle system and then complain when they get one.

[Anonymous No.4493307]

[Anonymous No.4493323]

>>4492842
The story is pretentious if you're a 16 year old internet game critic who considers psychoanalytical themes and religion to be too tryhard for a video game storyline. That's one of the gayest copout "criticisms" of storytelling in video games and no one is ever able to qualify it with anything substantial other than some air of smug superiority. Maybe you're just too dumb to grasp the plot?

[Anonymous No.4493373]

>>4493323
to be fair, you do have to have a high IQ to understand why Chu-Chu was crucified

[Anonymous No.4493461]

>>4492660
The vast majority of RPGs, VNs and post-/vr/ "games" for sure.

[Anonymous No.4493469]

[Anonymous No.4493478]

>>4492660
>non game reasons
>story
>writing
>music
>literally everything that makes good games good

OP is a retard

[Anonymous No.4493490]

>>4493461
What would the exceptions to this be?

>>4493478
I feel that gameplay is what's most important, but you certainly aren't wrong, especially about the music. Maybe it's a preference thing.

[Anonymous No.4493495]

>>4493490
narrative is inseparable from gameplay and informs the emotions and expectations during play

[Anonymous No.4493520]

>>4493495
Fair enough. I was mostly thinking of platformers and the like, which you usually play mainly for the gameplay, but honestly, those follow that idea just like every other type of game. Sorry if I'm being stupid.

[Anonymous No.4493525]

>>4493490
I say "most" because I haven't played them all (in fact almost haven't touched VNs nor modern-style games) so I can't dismiss everything. Theoretically they have to be games based mainly around game mechanics and they have to be good, that's it. The thing is, most of these don't even game game mechanics and are just reading / watching cutscenes.

[Anonymous No.4493535]

>>4493520
the main reason I can't really get into DKC is that I just can't get behind Donkey Kong's megalomaniac motivation to just have ALL THE BANANAS, and apparent obsessive desire to even collect giant gold bananas that he can't even eat, he's basically every bit as monstrous as his nemesis, and the only motivation for a player to want to beat up all these crocodiles is just like, some sort of implicit racism towards reptiles and greed and aimless wrath towards all your surroundings

it doesn't help that the game has like 600 spinning barrels in it

looking back on it now, the simple fact that sonic the hedgehog collects rings to survive and liberates innocent forest animals when he defeats enemies is nothing short of genius

[Anonymous No.4493540]

>>4493525
ah, but the events that happen in cutscenes and dialogue are happening to a proxy of the player, there is interplay between gameplay and exposition even if they take place at different times

[Anonymous No.4493542]

>>4493535
>the main reason I can't really get into DKC is that I just can't get behind Donkey Kong's megalomaniac motivation to just have ALL THE BANANAS
, etc.

Oh boy, here we go, ludonarrative dissonance crap... Did you know the motivation you have as a player to play a game is because you may find the game mechanics engaging?
>>>/v/
Thank you

[Anonymous No.4493543]

>>4493540
The thing is when 99% to 100% of a game is reading and cutscenes, which is what happens in VNs and modern cinematic games, that seems to not be a video game anymore and something enjoyed for aesthetic reasons, not game mechanic related.

RPGs have more game mechanics but still a lot of them I feel are enjoyed more for the aesthetic stuff, that's why I included them.

[Anonymous No.4493551]

>>4493542
>ludonarrative dissonance
if you're gonna be insecure and reactionary over someone threatening the validity of your tastes and pop out straw men instead of constructing a coherent retort at least make sure that you even understand the words you're drawing upon and not misapplying them to a completely different concept

it's obvious to even the shittiest child that the narrative context of a thing will directly impact how much they can enjoy regardless of how sound the mechanical design is, if streets of rage was about three members of the KKK lynching their way through a sea of black people a lot of people would experience a negative moral assessment of themselves while playing it and be unable to enjoy it even if the mechanics were identical, and your ability to silence your emotions like an abject coward and pretend you're a sociopath is not grounds for an entitlement to have your shitty opinion unassailed

[Anonymous No.4493553]

>>4493543
the aspect of player agency is integral to the narrative regardless of how miniscule the interaction, without choice a visual novel isn't actually a videogame

[Anonymous No.4493556]

>>4493535
I don't think I can agree with that, since it seems like a decent enough explanation to be doing what you're doing, which is fine by me. Your stance on it does make sense though. And thanks for reminding me to play the DKC games, been putting that off for too long.

[Anonymous No.4493559]

>>4493551
This is not what I experience personally, I only care about game mechanics in video games, all the aesthetic stuff doesn't change my enjoyment. Though I agree what you say happens to most people, but I'd argue that the fact that that happens is one of the key reasons video games have declined as a medium for game mechanics.

>>4493553
So CYOA books are video games now?

[Anonymous No.4493565]

Also I don't know what happens with video games that some of its fans become so pretentious.

Hey guise I won't play Chess cuz I oppose monarchy morally it makes me feel bad. Maybe if you change the theme of the pieces...

[Anonymous No.4493567]

>>4493535
>that entire post

[Anonymous No.4493569]

>>4493565
also why does white get to go first? so incredibly racist
I do like that the queen piece is more powerful than the king though, very progressive

[Anonymous No.4493571]

>>4493556
People who don't care why they're doing things are people who don't feel responsible for their own circumstance and their own destiny, and externalize the decisions for the formation of their future environment to outside sources, and as such I really don't fucking care what those people want because they've chosen not to be important. Apparently I could make a game about whatever dumb shit and they wouldn't really care so why even bother to ever be concerned with them? I might as well cater the game to the hipsters and effete modern gamers and intellectuals who do care and would be objectively correct in doing so because it would be reflected in the superior reception of the thing. Even if the people playing don't understand or consciously appreciate it, unifying the game design and narrative properly in a way that aligns with the ideal morality of the target audience is proven empirically to be superior game design by the simple fact that people enjoy being the hero, they enjoy being the vigilante or the anarchist or the revenger, and those games do better by being relatable or cathartic or inspiring in a way with the narrative being expressed through the gameplay as a medium. It's observed to sell, and it sells consistently, so it must be good design, that itself is an objective fact regardless of your opinion.

[Anonymous No.4493572]

>>4493559
>So CYOA books are video games now?
No, they're just games you moron, like solitaire.

[Anonymous No.4493575]

>>4493569
Literally like that racist KKK beat'em up on the Genesis that no one liked because of that rite

>>4493571
It's a fucking video game not real life, you don't need to question if you've infringed the non-aggression principle or some crap on a video game character. These Christmas trolls, man.

Have you considered choosing to be important in real life instead of in a virtual space?

And yeah, the best selling GTA is alligned with all its players moral values, for sure.

[Anonymous No.4493576]

>>4493571
I love your eloquency

[Anonymous No.4493581]

>>4493535
What gives Sonic additional narrative depth is that Eggman isn't really a classic villain. He's a genius and ambitious industrialist who's trying to exploit natural resources. Sonic and his friends represent the stereotype of indigenous populations - child-like and morally pure, but ultimately naive in their denial of technological and social progress. Thus Eggman, with all his inner contradictions, comes off as the ultimate hero of capitalist accumulation. As we know from history, industrialization is a terrible ordeal for a whole society, but dialectically it is a necessity both for material progress and the breaking away of medieval myths about inner purity.

[Anonymous No.4493583]

>>4493572
Not video games then, that was my point.
I swear, not you, but some guys here might consider a CD being 100% text or 100% FMV a video game just because it's played on a PlayStation.

[Anonymous No.4493586]

>>4493571
brilliant impression of a failed indie game dev who creates "important" pixelshit walking sims

[Anonymous No.4493589]

I like this game but am first to admit it plays like shit.

[Anonymous No.4493592]

>>4493571
Those are all very good and legitimate points. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as one of those people, I don't mean to.

[Anonymous No.4493593]

Games that look beautiful but are terrible in gameplay department are terrible games (see modern games)

Games that try to do narrative above all else, and are terrible in gameplay are not a good games, but they cpuld make a good novel. The fact that there is bad gameplay attached to the narrative diminishes the value of said narrative, impacting it in a negative way.

[Anonymous No.4493594]

>>4493581
>What gives Sonic additional narrative depth

lol now you've just showed your true form

[Anonymous No.4493596]

>>4493593
>Games that look beautiful but are terrible in gameplay department are terrible games (see modern games)

This absolutely cannot be understated. The whole post even, I don't see how this is so hard to understand.

[Anonymous No.4493602]

Games are made to be played.
Games that do not play well (I.e. bad gamedesign/mechanics) are not good games.

They may be good movies or good blnovels, but they can not be good GAMES if they do not play well.

[Anonymous No.4493605]

>>4492907
Holy shit xardion! I didn't know anyone else even played that. Any time a "what was that one game ...?" thread comes up I could barely remember enough about it to even post a question but now it's all coming back to me

[Anonymous No.4493612]

>>4493602
The fact that people don't understand this as a whole is the #1 reason the industry has declined. Games tried to be other mediums to be taken more seriously, instead of focusing on improving game mechanics.

Guys, if you like stories you have all sorts of mediums for them. Video games provide something unique, stop trying to make them books or movies. Yes, sometimes you may get a nice marriage of game mechanics with non-intrusive story, stories told through mechanics, but outside of that everything else is a disservice to the medium. And if you only do those kinds of games, considering them the best just because of having a narrative, then you kill so many genres it's ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.4493614]

>>4493605
I played that game once almost ten years ago, one of the most forgettable games I've played through and not just dropped instantly.

[Anonymous No.4493618]

>>4493612
And yes, I know it's make a game and not do a game, forgive my sins /vr/

[Anonymous No.4493624]

There's literally nothing wrong with a game that focuses on dialogue, atmosphere or plot. Not everyone wants to make simplistic sidescrollers, some genres barely work without a decent plot (cRPG, point 'n click, text adventure).

[Anonymous No.4493631]

>>4493624
Don't dismiss hard action games as simplistic at least, your point could have been good if not for that.

[Anonymous No.4493632]

>>4493612
you're being unrealistically defensive over something that you don't really understand and your viewpoint is flawed because it isn't historically sound, games were not better before this trend occurred, Ico came out over 15 years ago and Another World is more than 10 years older than that, the reason they've stagnated now is that, surprise surprise, you can't just keep making and releasing the same games with the same mechanics, even stupider, if your argument is that game mechanics have standalone value to the exclusion of narrative, then by your own logic narrative games should have no impact whatsoever on the progress of game mechanic design

the thing you're really upset about is just that your peers have left you behind and you're lonely and can't relate to a world that is content to abandon you

[Anonymous No.4493639]

>>4493575
>And yeah, the best selling GTA is alligned with all its players moral values, for sure.
are you so naive that you're suggesting it isn't?

[Anonymous No.4493650]

>>4493586
I actually see the ultimate destiny of games as approaching pure intricate simulation painted with abstraction and fantastical absurdity to make them cathartic and satisfying, i.e. pretty much just the holodeck from star trek; so what I would do is have combat and exploration and character interaction and other such diversions with an enormous amount of variables and algorithms operating invisibly underneath the hood

the level of quality by which the game simulates reality, and the quality of the aesthetic by which it diverges from it is the true essence of game design

[Anonymous No.4493678]

Hey, storyfag anon, care to tell us what's your favorite video game?

>you can't just keep making and releasing the same games with the same mechanics
When did I say we need to do this, I said game mechanics need to be the focus of the medium and they have to improve. If you think Tiger Heli is the same as Ketsui for instance then holy shit.

>your argument is that game mechanics have standalone value to the exclusion of narrative
Of course they have, game mechanics are entertaining, this happens to traditional board games and sports as well, you don't need narrative to enjoy games.

btw didn't know that the values of millions of people are "I'm a thug" lol
>I actually see the ultimate destiny of games as approaching pure intricate simulation painted with abstraction and fantastical absurdity to make them cathartic and satisfying, i.e. pretty much just the holodeck from star trek; so what I would do is have combat and exploration and character interaction and other such diversions with an enormous amount of variables and algorithms operating invisibly underneath the hood

the level of quality by which the game simulates reality, and the quality of the aesthetic by which it diverges from it is the true essence of game design
This whole post, holy shit. You seem to not like video games at all and want them to become another thing for you. No wonder you desire their death so much like this.

[Anonymous No.4493692]

>>4493650
I see a career in blogging in your future

[Anonymous No.4493706]

>>4492660
UGH rpgs?! that makes you a gaylord! i'd rather shoot (in first person view) demons and satans and masturbate to cartoons with right-angle jaws

[Anonymous No.4493715]

>>4493678
i dont have a favorite game, and i've actually not been arguing in favor of story but in favor of the coherent union of mechanics and narrative. if i had to guess though i might say PDZ, ogre battle, saga frontier, umihara kawase, god hand , demon's souls, the armored core series, alundra, deus ex, dmc3, zoe2, mgs 3, shiren, cvs2, dragon quarter, basically too many to decide and thats just scratching the surface

[Anonymous No.4493728]

>>4493715
And I'm in favor to value game mechanics over everything else, which includes games that have coherent mechanics and narrative, but also more. My approach includes yours and more, my point is by focusing so much on narrative you risk destroying other pure games by considering them inferior.

[Anonymous No.4494525]

>>4493728
They are inferior by definition if they did half as much work, you're still carrying on some idiotic argument that 1+0=1 is somehow better than 1+1=3. It's called synergy and it's not just theory, it's something that effects biochemistry too.

I know what you're doing here, you've been thinking about games a long time without actually broaching the subject of storytelling because it's complicated and your head gets clustered and blocked up when you try to deal with things you dislike or can't handle because you didn't learn them properly and now lack the skill. Man up and realize that you're not a different kind of animal than the other people in society who have by majority chosen to value this shit.

Videogames are a medium that tells you stories about yourself. That's what they are.

[Anonymous No.4494537]

>>4494525
How can some game genres only possible by only having game mechanics and foregoing mechanic+narrative cohesion be inferior?

Sure, Dragon Blaze is telling me a story about myself, didn't know about that! I truly feel illuminated.

[Anonymous No.4494538]

>>4494537
>How can some game genres only possible by only having game mechanics and foregoing mechanic+narrative cohesion
there are no such genres

[Anonymous No.4494541]

>>4494538
So you're telling me the narrative of Dragon Blaze is the point of the experience? Since this is a medium to tell stories to you.

[Anonymous No.4494542]

Video games as a medium have potential for storytelling that no other medium can do, which is player interaction. Yu-No wouldn't be as interesting if it was a book, movie, tv series, etc, but as a game, it's a literal perfect 10/10.

[Anonymous No.4494547]

>>4494525
You're making a lot of strange assumptions about that anon and pretending your opinion is fact.

[Anonymous No.4494548]

>>4494542
VNs are just "games" by people too poor and untalented to make a book/movie/video game. Don't pretend VNs are anything meaningful.

[Anonymous No.4494557]

>>4494538
wrong, you dumb tumblrina

[Anonymous No.4494558]

>>4494548
Only dumb people who haven't played a VN think this.

[Anonymous No.4494563]

>>4494557
Don't worry he's currently writing his essay on how Tetris is such a deep ludonarrative experience.

[Anonymous No.4494642]

>>4494557
>>4494563
I don't need an essay, Tetris is a simplistic reflection of life's need to create order and maintenance against an endless force of entropy, try as we might to organize and master our environment and survive as long as possible, we are destined to inevitably fail and die. We are only human and we are incapable of truly conquering the laws of our reality. For the short time we are able to however, exerting control over and accurately predicting our environment gives us a great deal of satisfaction.

So it's still a narrative about being human, you fucking pleb

[Anonymous No.4494679]

>>4494547
>pretending your opinion is fact.
I know the concept is alien to you but it's called confidence

[Anonymous No.4494686]

>>4494548
somebody ate too much soy as a manchild

[Anonymous No.4494692]

>>4494642
See, >>4494557 , I knew he was writing it

>Tetris is a simplistic reflection of life's need to create order and maintenance against an endless force of entropy

Ok, this guy is either crazy for real or the most eloquent troll ever. I'm not so sure anymore.

[Anonymous No.4494698]

>>4494692
anon I went to the store to buy caffeinated beverages, I wrote that in a couple minutes, it's one fucking paragraph

[Anonymous No.4494725]

>>4494698
How can you honestly think Tetris was made for that purpose, anon. There's no fucking way.

[Anonymous No.4494734]

I remember when the control scheme for this didn't make me want to kill myself

I still haven't completed it

[Anonymous No.4494750]

>>4494725
it doesn't matter whether or not it's intentional or not, that's the narrative

[Anonymous No.4494752]

>>4494750
>it doesn't matter whether or not it's intentional or not, that's the narrative

There are people who unironically think this

[Anonymous No.4494754]

>>4494752
anon how much do you weigh

I'm guessing either under 150 or over 240

[Anonymous No.4494757]

>>4494754
198lbs

[Anonymous No.4494759]

>>4492709
You mean FF6
>game so busted and broken stats don't even work
>later ports fix this
>"noooooooooooooo don't play THOSE versions, play the original it has better GRAPHICS and SOUNDS"

[Anonymous No.4494763]

>>4494757
oh wait that's how much I weigh

are you spying on me anon

[Anonymous No.4494767]

>>4494763
No, I have just weighed myself everyday since December 2015

[Anonymous No.4494801]

>>4494750
Hope you've enjoyed your trolling so far.

So it doesn't matter what it was programmed for (the game mechanics), it doesn't matter than not a single person ever other than you and maybe some other nutcase that has played Tetris has gotten this message from it... Tetris is about that narrative you made up and that's FACT. lol Damn, you're worse than conspiracy theorists or people who read too much into some art forms for propaganda and shit.

[Anonymous No.4494805]

>>4494801
??? of course I think my opinion is more valid than everyone else's I'm not some sort of effete pansy

none of this has been trolling

[Anonymous No.4494818]

>>4494805
Seek help, man.
Ask 99,99% of players why they enjoyed Tetris and nobody will tell you they appreciated the entropy shit you've mentioned, not even any story. It's not that they're plebs in this case, that shit's just your crazy personal interpretation of the thing.
If you think this is a fallacy, it's very simple: there's something that exists that's called a GAME. In can be physical, a sport, a board game, and recently video games. The latter can more easily involve narrative but these are not narrative mediums, and arguing otherwise is just ridiculous.
The point of a game is to enjoy the interaction with the game mechanics or rules, be it by yourself or with other people. Nobody enjoys playing a game of basketball for any narrative reason, and the same is true for most traditional video game (hell there's even BASKETBALL video games with no narrative).

[Anonymous No.4494825]

>>4494818
>Ask 99,99% of players why they enjoyed Tetris and nobody will tell you they appreciated the entropy shit you've mentioned
if the player isn't aware of it, then the game is designed well

[Anonymous No.4494829]

>>4494818
basketball and all sports and all games in general have narratives whether you're realizing it or not, just as every waking moment of your life and every goal or task you've taken and every interpersonal relationship you've ever formed also has a narrative.

[Anonymous No.4494874]

>>4494825
Ok, so the point of something is the narrative but also the point is that the player doesn't get that it's about the narrative. This is mindnumbingly stupid.

>>4494829
This reminds me of the silly "Mario is an RPG because you play the role of Mario" argument lol

[Anonymous No.4494901]

>>4494874
>Ok, so the point of something is the narrative
nobody has said this

[Anonymous No.4494902]

>GAMES HAVE NO DEEPER MEANING
>have you considered looking deeper
>WHAT KIND OF WEIRDO FAG DO YOU THINK I AM! I AM SILLY!

[Anonymous No.4494914]

>>4494901
Are you sure?
"Videogames are a medium that tells you stories about yourself. That's what they are."
from >>4494525

>>4494902
Some video game have, just not every game (including Tetris) nor everything in existence like this nutcase implies. To him there can't exist that's made just as entertainment derived from its game mechanics.

[Anonymous No.4494929]

amusingly, wikipedia seems to agree with me, not that we shouldn't take that with a grain of salt

[Anonymous No.4494931]

>>4494914
what they simply are and the point of their invention is not the same thing, you need to work on the nuance in your grammatical comprehension

[Anonymous No.4494937]

>>4494914
>nor everything in existence like this nutcase implies
not everything in existence; rather, everything in human experience

[Anonymous No.4494945]

So everything in human experience must be enjoyed as a narrative and focus on that to be superior. Guys, go back to Tumblr or whatever hell you came from.

[Anonymous No.4494989]

>>4494945
>So everything in human experience must be enjoyed as a narrative and focus on that to be superior.
nobody is saying this either

everything in human experience HAS a narrative, and to understand and master that process of cognition and emotional transition can elevate something we create

the first person in this thread who implied that to do otherwise was "inferior" was you, and you said it because you thought I would back-peddle so as not to seem arrogant, but I wholeheartedly agreed with you and now you're arguing against your own insecurity.

[Anonymous No.4494990]

>>4494989
Okay, man, I'll use this knowledge to try to make good games one day instead of researching good game mechanics and game design. This is done.

[Anonymous No.4495016]

>>4494990
stop being so black and white you moron

[Anonymous No.4495403]

[Anonymous No.4495723]

>>4493307
Their games have nothing but gameplay

[Anonymous No.4495726]

>>4492709
Retarded troll post.

This is like someone saying that Tom Brady isn’t a good quarterback.

[Anonymous No.4495727]

>>4492995
I actually like Chrono Cross quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.4495729]

>>4492660
Mega Man 2 was sooo clunky.


Mega Man 3 was master race.

[Anonymous No.4495794]

>>4493632
>if your argument is that game mechanics have standalone value to the exclusion of narrative, then by your own logic narrative games should have no impact whatsoever on the progress of game mechanic design

What a horrible way to try and twist words around. You dont even understand his logic and you are trying deduce an outcome that favors your argument. You used a logical fallacy called confirming the disjunct. Just because game play mechanics can stand alone from a narrative, doesnt mean that narratives have not impacted gameplay. In both good and bad ways. Take fallout new vegas and compare it to fallout 4. These games of the same series offer very similar gameplay mechanics, but differ extremely when it comes to narration. In fact the narratives in fnv are extremely satisfying and it mixes with the gameply very well, unlike fo4s lack of choices and stale character input. Fo4 was mostly focused on telling one story and in that cut some of the gameplay mechanics thst made the series great. The one improvement was the fps action, which was always on the back burner in fnv. It took a back seat to the rpg mechanics which made developing your character unique, that coupled with the numerous ways you could play the game created a synergistic approach between gameplay mechanics and plot.

When people say that games have gotten too much like movies, its because alot of new games have stripped gameplay mechanics away in order to tell a story. Quick time events, loot boxes, hollywood esque fmv sequences, and its ok when done right i.e. mgs 3, kingdom hearts, re 4, . Its just very ignorant of you to write all eloquently about something that you have never really thought about in depths and its obvious.

[Anonymous No.4495795]

>>4495729
I actually prefer the later NES games

[Anonymous No.4495802]

>>4495794
I'm the guy he was arguing against. I appreciate that you tried but he's just mental, it's a waste of time, no matter what you say he's just stuck in that garbage.

[Anonymous No.4496140]

>>4495794
I'm sorry but before I even finish reading this shit how fucking stupid do you have to be to use something as an example for a transition in development standards when the two games aren't even by the same developer, and you criticize me for using lawyer bait when you can't even manage the fucking variables in your experimental data

no actually I just did read that garbage; you can't even properly distinguish the point of what I've been saying and you misattribute the fact that games are being casualized as a result of the constantly increasing price-tag on development and size of development teams to some ridiculous strawman about story-fags? fuck you man go get some perspective before you get all reactionary about shit you don't understand and carry an argument that just embarrasses you and makes you look like a petulant child who can't imagine that game developers care more about money than his happiness

[Anonymous No.4496149]

>>4496140
seriously how fucking dumb

do you even understand that out of Fallout 3, FNV, and Fallout 4; FNV was actually the least successful financially?? of course they're not going to make that fucking game if it doesn't make as much money! it has almost nothing to do with your shit argument

[Anonymous No.4496154]

>>4496140
>constantly increasing price-tag on development and size of development teams
And why do you think this happens? Well, of course, they spend a shit ton on marketing and making the games have Hollywood-like aesthetics, which has nothing to do with game mechanics (they usually are just the same generic FPS or 3rdPS).

[Anonymous No.4496176]

>>4496154
fucking with mechanics is a financial risk they can't afford unless your name is Hiroyuki Kobayashi and you're an absolute madman

you might as well be bitching and complaining that all these superhero movies are too much alike

but surprise surprise, this doesn't stop people from making other movies and there's nobody holding you down and forcing you to play triple A titles while your dad gets beat up

[Anonymous No.4496190]

>>4496176
Just pointing out why and how games have declined as a medium overall. And it was mainly due to too much focus on aesthetic and story crap to sell to a new bigger uneducated audience.
At least you seem to agree with me lol
>fucking with mechanics is a financial risk

[Anonymous No.4496204]

>>4496149
New Vegas was the least successful financially because of the bugs on release that came from only 18 months of development time and Bethesda's shitty engine. You shouldn't measure how good a game is on financial success anyway COD still makes a shit ton of money and it has been becoming more and more shit.

[Anonymous No.4496206]

>>4496190
none of this impacts the fact that you can still make autismo games about colored rectangles bouncing off of eachother with hundreds of exciting dynamic rpg variables or whatever the fuck it is you expect, nor does it change the fact that a game that properly synergies story and gameplay into a single narrative would be even more successful than either

[Anonymous No.4496213]

>>4496204
>You shouldn't measure how good a game is on financial success anyway
if you're developing or publishing games then you really have no choice, unless you're just going to spend hundreds and thousands of hours making a game to give it away for free because of your outstanding moral character? fuck off

[Anonymous No.4496217]

>>4496206
It impacts how there's been an steep decrease of games I like being released nowadays due to how big the demand for crappy games has become, be it triple A or skinner box movile crap. I'm sick of the "games have matured because they have more narrative now, older games are for babies" I see so much, and while this isn't your argument there's no denying storyfagging, aesthetic crap and certain progress systems not possible before have ruined the traditional video game environment I liked.

[Anonymous No.4496250]

>>4495729
classic series is clunky, needed some DASH

[Anonymous No.4496257]

>>4496250
The dash feature is very nice but it's not essential, the classic games are still fine. Slide is similar, too.

[Anonymous No.4496293]

>>4496217
have you considered that maybe things aren't binary at all and both sides are just being manipulated into a bad argument? it seems like you're heavily invested in being unhappy no matter what the circumstance

like maybe the thing you actually want is some feeling from your childhood when you could play games without conscience that you're just never going to have again because time doesn't move backwards

I could tell you to play some games from smaller developers or to just go and make the game you want to play yourself but part of me expects that you'll go on some idiotic tirade about indieshits

[Anonymous No.4496301]

>>4496217
>muh progress system
Aw fuck off. Nobody wants to replay your shitty repetitive 25 minute game for hours on end until they "git gud". Can't you see difficulty is just a compromise for when they coudln't fit a hour long game into 256kb carts?

[Anonymous No.4496349]

>>4496293
I was a bit more into narrative in games as a kid until I began to read more. Now I want my games as games, if I want a story I have other mediums.

>>4496301
That's mostly for console, even after they could they still did shorter challenging games for the arcades due to the environment. I like these games and I'm not the only one, so...
Remember, though: I only said some progress systems. I'm mainly talking about the extreme examples, modern social games that have no game mechanics at all and are just manipulative progress systems. These are pretty much cancer.

[Anonymous No.4498447]

>>4492660
Entire dualogy, played every single SMT game from Atlus that have translation and i can't find a worse game gameplaywise than those.

It's completely understandable why Hashino Personas are more popular than Tadashi Personas.

What is bizarre is that P1 PSP with speed up functions plays better than any version of any chapter of P2.

The story, music and overall spritework outside dungeons it's some of the best things i ever saw in the PS1 era but all the mechanics jesus christ...

[Anonymous No.4498451]

>>4498447
By speed up functions i'm not talking about frameskip just the normal gameplay that is overall more responsive.

[Anonymous No.4498506]

>>4493535
fantastic example of classic videogames viewed through a late-2010s lens

[Anonymous No.4499141]

>>4493184
Bruh, try harder. You can't talk shit about a game that is at the top of thousands of top 10s.

[Anonymous No.4499186]

>>4498447
what kind of literal autist doesn't like the demon conversation system

[Anonymous No.4499707]

>>4499186
It's super fun a slow paced trial and error game with a lot of RNG in between that take a lot of time to get through, time that could be EXP or Money or... Fun.

There is no defense to that shit as the game interface do not colaborate with an indicator/mark of which option you picked and worked, sometimes on the trial and error process you get ilogical options that only lead to the demon getting angrier leaving you with a single try per battle.

Meanwhile on SMT you just do 3 max dialogue options that lose you some money or HP on the early game then you supply yourself with Compendium for the rest of the game or the sheer power of the MCs if you are playing SNES.

There is RNG on SMT for Demon Conversations but it's most played for laughs while on Persona 2 is for frustration.

Even P1 did better when you only needed a spellcard to do fusions while on P2 you had to farm positive asnwers to get a lot of Tarot Cards to fuse a single demon, and conversation was also a necessary tool on P1 as some dungeons had enemies that actually forced you to manage SP wisely and convo give you a free win avoiding SP loss.

Dude the best chapter of P2 is IS not because it's the only one with PSP version translated it's because the game is so easy that Guard Exploit can carry you to the event Personas so you can forget completely about the stupid ideas with Demon Conversation that Atlus had with this game.

EP where there is some difficulty it's pure hell being forced to use this shit.

[Anonymous No.4499747]

>>4499707
>demons have personalities that are listed right fucking there
>certain personalities like certain conversation options
>even if you're too dumb to make use of those you can tell pretty easily that if a demon doesn't like your attempt at silliness, it'll probably like the polar opposite
>since there are 4 different emotions and they each take around 3 levels to fill up, you have a ton of leeway to fuck up and fuck around conversation
Sorry anon but P1's conversation system is very easy and fun.

[Anonymous No.4499823]

>>4499707
>There is no defense to that shit as the game interface do not colaborate with an indicator/mark of which option you picked and worked, sometimes on the trial and error process you get ilogical options that only lead to the demon getting angrier leaving you with a single try per battle.
DID YOU KNOW that it's possible to encounter different demons of the same race that have different attitudes to the exact same statements? Did you know that some of them will ask you questions and their response is based on whether or not you answered the same question before the same way and whether you changed your mind or not? Did you know that some of them JUDGE YOU based on whether your philosophy accurately reflects your actions in game? Did you know that some of them will only join you if you're a REAL MAN and your actions have reflected it, INCLUDING your conversations with other demons up to that point?

Demon Conversation system is GOAT, you're just too fucking weak willed to be good enough for it.

[Anonymous No.4499828]

>>4499747

>demons have personalities that are listed right fucking there

Then you check a FAQ and see that most of the correct asnwers make no sense.

>since there are 4 different emotions and they each take around 3 levels to fill up, you have a ton of leeway to fuck up and fuck around conversation

Yeah sure.

*motorcycle noises*

"I'm offended"

*Ilogical formulaic question*

*answer something*

The result while you can get an answer right most of the time it is still RNG.

"I'm offended"

You then try the follow-up correct answer that worked the most.

"I'm offended"

The demon leave or brake contract if you were farming.

And to make things worse if you the demon doesn't have an reaction that raises two emotions at same time to skip questions you keep getting dice rolls for the questions, to both form a contract an keep farming Tarot Cards.

Meanwhile P1 is almost like a SMT which is better.

[Anonymous No.4499835]

Demon Conversation was done right on every SMT that isn't P2 EP.

Having to use that turd was awful even fans of the game play with a notepad for correct contacts for double emotion skip when the necessity to farm arises.

[Anonymous No.4499838]

>>4499823
Honestly, everything you listed sounds like a pain in the ass.
But I really like the demon converstation system in Persona. When you get proficient at it it's fun to skip combat and get free shit that way. Also I can avoid killing cute femae demons.

[Anonymous No.4499839]

>>4499823
Yeah i'm powerful for rolling a dice

[Anonymous No.4499842]

>>4499838
That's enjoyable part of P1, the problem lies on 2.

They tried to come up with too much stuff that is mostly a waste of time or a source of frustration.

[Anonymous No.4499848]

>>4499842
Ah, I can't speak too much about P2 since I gave up on Innocent Sin when I had to fight those fucking nazis and their spears. It's a shame because I really liked the story.

[Anonymous No.4499850]

>>4492982
Can confirm. Playing it right now and V was better in every aspect, except battle theme.

[Anonymous No.4499852]

>>4499141
So is 50 shades of grey and twilight

[Anonymous No.4499861]

>>4499838
>Honestly, everything you listed sounds like a pain in the ass.
are you upset because it resembles the inconvenience of real interactions?

[Anonymous No.4499881]

>>4499848
The story is really good.

The mechanics... Well.

[Anonymous No.4499891]

>>4492982
FF4 is more a case that it feels like a RPG maker project for a more young person PoV.

It still has some cool things like the speedrun of the US version SNES version who exploits the lower difficulty and bugs to crazy degree.

[Anonymous No.4499907]

>>4493184
A game doesn't need to be hard to be good.

And if you missed the fun party combos because you felt better spamming Magus spells it's your fault not the game.

Anyway as there is almost never mechanical barriers on JRPGs challange on them is mostly anti-grinding systems, level scalling, screwing you with invisible variables or RNG stuff that can one shot you, or simply be a grindfest like most Dragon Quests.

Very few JRPGs achieved a decent challange that doesn't involve grinding or knowning AI scripts to hard counter bosses.

I absolutelly never missed difficulty on Chrono Trigger because if you miss getting you ass hanged you can always run from battles.

[Anonymous No.4499981]

>>4499861
Never got someone trying to kill me for imitating a jet.

[Anonymous No.4499985]

>>4499981
maybe but you dont get out much in the first place

[Anonymous No.4500902]

>>4492660
But the story and writing in xenogears is its worst aspect.

[Anonymous No.4501182]

>>4492660

[Anonymous No.4501193]

>>4501182
don't know if i'm more pissed or confused, either way you are wrong

[Anonymous No.4502443]

ITT: Mongoloids getting mad about people liking things they don't like/suck at.

[Anonymous No.4502478]

>>4502443
People sucking at narrative-based "games"? So, people with reading comprehension problems?

[Anonymous No.4502530]

>>4492978
>one female character
>only one not directly facing the camera (b/c we gotta show off her tits and her ass at the same time)
every
fucking
time
i really hate vidya sometimes

[Anonymous No.4502604]

>>4502530
I don't give a shit about sexuality in games but still, hi Tumblr, how's it goin'?

[Anonymous No.4505179]

>>4492660
If you like a game, you like a game. Doesn't matter why you like it.

[Anonymous No.4505192]

>>4495729
I can't resist this bait.
MM2 > MM3,
the simplicity of Mega Man 2 makes for cozy gaming, whereas the UNPREDICTABLE slide in MM3 is just a tacked on feature

[Anonymous No.4505201]

>>4505192
>UNPREDICTABLE

[Anonymous No.4505218]

Resident Evil is shit ass shit

[Anonymous No.4505293]

>175 replies
>no mention of Metal Gear Solid

and no, I'm not wrong, the stealth in that game is as deep as pac-man. Thief released the same year and shat on it so it doesn't have the "pioneer" excuse

[Anonymous No.4505406]

>>4492660
The 3D Zelda games

[Anonymous No.4505420]

>all games need to have epik retro difficulty to be good: the thread
Why do you faggots ever play anything but Pong? There you have pure gameplay and nothing else.

[Anonymous No.4505427]

>>4505293
Maybe it was too obvious or played out. It's easy to hate on one of the harbingers of the modern cinematic gaming landscape.
>>4505406
Not fond of these either.
>>4505420
You can make games with lower challenge that are still very much based on playing them and not story stuff. In fact, this is the case for most console games pre-5th gen.

[Anonymous No.4505491]

>>4505293
I say the same thing all the time, glad someone else isn't a total retard. The dialogue is the saving grace of the whole game and outside of that it's dead simple with boring combat, tedious challenges and terrible controls.

[Anonymous No.4505498]

>>4493581
>Sonic
>narrative depth

[Anonymous No.4505510]

>>4505491
You get accused of trolling if you dislike these popular storyfag games from this era like MGS or FFVII