/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4419864]

Are the original Tomb Raiders worth buying on PC? I heard the controls were designed by the antichrist.

[Anonymous No.4419872]

they're tank controls, I had no problem with them
the first four games are the only TR games that matter, everything after that was garbage

[Anonymous No.4419874]

>>4419864
When I was teenager I enjoyed the first game and played the shit out of it. It wasn't an issue.
When the first 3d cards hit the market I was blown away second time.
I'm sure you might find some mods or something to make the controls different...

[Anonymous No.4420001]

>>4419864

[Anonymous No.4420013]

The Retro Tomb Raider Games:

Tomb Raider
Tomb Raider II: Starring Lara Croft
Tomb Raider: Unfinished Business
Tomb Raider III: Adventures of Lara Croft
Tomb Raider II: The Golden Mask
Tomb Raider IV: The Last Revelation
Tomb Raider III: The Lost Artifact
Tomb Raider: Chronicles

Can anyone rank them?

[Anonymous No.4420047]

>>4419864
The controls are perfect, pad or keyboard. The game is designed around them. It's the 3d evolution from games like PoP/Flashback where every move is planned and deliberate. Anyone who says the controls are bad are just not used to them and expect shit like Uncharted/Assassins' Creed/Tomb Raider Legend that plays the game for you. First Tomb Raider is the best one, then 2 then 4.

[Anonymous No.4420081]

>>4420013
I haven't played chronicles.
TR4>TR2=TR1>TR3 lost artifact>TR3>TR2 golden mask>TR unfinished business(it felt like fan-made levels despite being developed by original team)

[Anonymous No.4420091]

>>4420013

Chronicles is an abomination and should never be included on that list. Even buggier than III, and that was pretty damn buggy, Anon.

[Anonymous No.4420097]

>>4420047
What a bunch of delusions.

[Anonymous No.4420103]

>>4420091

Didn't say it was good, just that it was the last retro TR

[Anonymous No.4420108]

>>4420097
You sure showed him.

[Anonymous No.4420216]

Buy the reboot

[Anonymous No.4420223]

>>4419864
Just got done beating TR1 a few days ago.

The controls are absolutely brutal. Imagine being chased by a cheetah while bricks are tied to your feet and a backpack full of sand.

I like TR1 the most. 2 was good too. TR gets silly after that.

[Anonymous No.4420258]

>>4419864
The controls are for platforming more than combat. As long as you don't treat it like a more modern platformer and take your time it'll be fine.

[Anonymous No.4420276]

>>4419864
>I heard the controls were designed by the antichrist.

I don't think I've ever heard this one. The controls are remappable, and the game supports joystick inputs. Maybe you're referring to the fact that the game uses tank controls? But not entirely like the shitty ones found in survival-horror games.

Anyway, controls should be the least of your concerns. There are a lot of version differences with the retro TR games, and those differences could make or break the games for you. I play them all on PS1 simply because it's less of a headache than trying to run them in DOSbox on a modern PC. (But if you insist on doing it this way, look into the GOG releases) The graphics detail obviously isn't great on the PS1, but who cares. You're posting on a retro imageboard.

[Anonymous No.4420290]

>>4420013

I think most anons will disagree, but
TR2 = TR1 classic > Anniversary > Last Revelation > Lost Artifact > Golden Mask > TR3 > Chronicles

Unfinished Business is just too short to rank. Golden Mask is a pretty hefty adventure though. It's nearly as long as the first game. Lost Artifact was a bit shorter, but it had some great level designs. Bear in mind that these "expansions" are really just stand-alone adventures. Unfinished Business and Golden Mask do require the original game discs since they share some of TR1 and 2's assets, but Lost Artifact was distributed as a totally stand-alone game with no need to swap in the TR3 disc.

[Anonymous No.4420415]

I played TR Anniversary. Should I play the original now?

[Anonymous No.4420423]

>>4420415
You mean should you "still" play the original or just pass right to the second?
Yes you should, they are different.

[Anonymous No.4420430]

>>4420047
>The controls are perfect, pad or keyboard. The game is designed around them

Except for the enemies, they move fluidly in all directions while you struggle to maneuver around them like a handicapped jackrabbit.

[Anonymous No.4420447]

>>4419864
I wouldn't bother with them unless for legit nostalgia purposes to be honest. The remake is way more intuitive and accessible.

[Anonymous No.4420527]

>>4420447
Or if you have a thing for Lara.

[Anonymous No.4420543]

>>4420527
Kek. Nude Raider was my jam.

[Anonymous No.4420718]

>>4420013
1>5>3>2>4

[Anonymous No.4420772]

>>4420276
He is referring to the fact that the games use keyboard, which is the Minotaur's Labyrinth and Rubik's Cube rolled into one, in the eye of console kiddies.

[Anonymous No.4420785]

>>4420527
I always thought she was pretty ugly tbqh

[Anonymous No.4420793]

>>4419864
The controls are meant to be Prince of Persia-style controls in a 3D environment. Apart from a couple jumps being slightly annoying, I never had a problem with them. The game is designed around them.

[Anonymous No.4421397]

>>4420785
You're a late bloomer probably.

[Anonymous No.4421427]

>>4420430
Enemies have fixed attack animations, janky pathing, most can't climb or traverse gaps, they have worse turning circles than Lara, and human enemies take longer to aim.
If you can't run circles around melee attackers while firing, or easily roll around and stay behind gun-wielding enemies, then you must be handicapped.

[Anonymous No.4421429]

>>4421427
>if you can't pull out gimmicks, you're handicapped
Every time

[Anonymous No.4421439]

>>4420718
>5 and 3, the worst TR ever made above 4 and 2
>4 is last, the best TR ever made
0/10 in taste and trolling

[Anonymous No.4421495]

Tank controls are bad only if you can't control the camera. I find Resident Evil unplayable because of that. Tomb Raider was never a problem.

[Anonymous No.4421510]

>>4421495
Every combat encounter is pain in the ass, especially in dangerous environment.
These diagonal jumps where you position yourself for a minute just to fall into pit because she touched a pixel of celling with her hair.
Saying that there's no problems with controls is the opposite extreme of "game is unplayable", the truth lies somewhere in between.

[Anonymous No.4421585]

>>4419864
No. I mean, even ignoring you can emulate them pretty much the same, they're not good. The platforming is very very methodical and laborious. Something that would take five seconds in Quake takes twenty in Tomb Raider. Lining up jumps precisely, slowly climbing ledges, idle shimmying, lazy leaps. If you have standards you won't be able to tolerate it. This isn't an issue of tank controls (some of the best games ever made have tank controls), it's just the pacing and how the levels are just chores to go through.

To say nothing of the combat.

[Anonymous No.4421591]

>>4421585
It's from golden mask, right? They probably fucked up AI in it, I don't remember such shit in tr2.

[Anonymous No.4421603]

>>4421585
stick to FPS' kid, you're out of your depth here

[Anonymous No.4421624]

Anyone into the level editor? There's a huge active community around it with levels, mods etc that push the game to it's limit.

[Anonymous No.4421658]

>>4421603
>FPS'
you wot

[Anonymous No.4421731]

>>4419864
If you're young faggot or hipster that loves bitching.
Just keep away. Leave the board entirely.

[Anonymous No.4421854]

>>4421397
She just had one of those stuck-up bitchy professional model faces to me. Also those enormous lips were a turn off too.

[Anonymous No.4421856]

>>4419864
Controls are perfect

[Anonymous No.4421872]

>>4421495
The irony is tank controls are perfect for when you can't control the camera, and I'd say even mandatory. Play REmake with the modern controls. You'll change camera perspectives and sometimes your character will spaz out and start going in the wrong direction because suddenly up is down. FF7-9 had this problem too but they're not action games so it's not a big a deal, but it can still be disorienting.

[Anonymous No.4421889]

>>4421854
I guess people have different perception then, for me she's the Mona Lisa of our digital era.

[Anonymous No.4421890]

>>4421872
>You'll change camera perspectives and sometimes your character will spaz out and start going in the wrong direction because suddenly up is down.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.
That's the problem with thank controls and a fixed camera.

[Anonymous No.4421915]

>>4421890
I don't understand your problem then. Tank controls eliminate the random spaziness. You hold up and you move forward regardless of the camera. There's no confusion about how you'll move.

[Anonymous No.4422265]

>>4421872
It wasn't a problem because there is a black screen during every transition. During that time the player releases the analog stick, so when the new scene loads the player starts moving from zero. In REmake transitions are instantaneous, so the player keeps tilting the stick in wrong direction. The game accounts for it by letting an already tilted stick guide the motion in the right direction in the new scene. For example, in REmake, if you cross into a new scene going south and tilting the stick down, while the new scene is a west-east corridor, the character will move east even though the stick is pointing downwards. When the player releases the stick, however, the movement direction is reset and tilting the stick downwards will cause the character to run into a wall. That's the cause of all the "spazing" in the game.

[Anonymous No.4422751]

>>4419864
Use Peixoto's mod. Gives you widescreen, higher resolutions, support for xinput gamepads, etc. It basically makes classic TR play and look as modern as it'll ever get, and way beyond the psx versions

[Anonymous No.4423472]

>>4419872
>twf when I actually liked tank controls and really miss them

[Anonymous No.4423475]

>>4421585
>The platforming is very very methodical and laborious.
That's the point, though. They can't make it challenging if it's also easy.

Combat is not good, I agree, but I'm still glad it's there.

[Anonymous No.4423478]

>>4423475
In the games it's like it takes ten times as long to actually do the jumping as it does to figure out how to do it. That's where I think the challenge ends and it just becomes tedium. Get on with it.

[Anonymous No.4423490]

>>4421889

She WAS...was...

Progressive game developers ruined her in to a generic strong wymn who don't need no man

[Anonymous No.4423494]

>>4423478
it's the other way around and you know it
the jumps themselves are always the same; you get used to it really quick

>>4423490
>a generic strong wymn who don't need no man
she was always that
but back then she had a perfect body as per mens opinions, instead of this shit

[Anonymous No.4423503]

>>4423490
>>4423494
>Giving a shit about stuff like this
Fucking pathetic. MUH SJW BOOGEYMAN CHANGED MUH WAIFU

[Anonymous No.4423554]

>>4420276
You could run all of them except 1 in Windows before GOG even, though GOG made it way easier since at least for me setting up 3 was a pain due to audio issues and brightness and other things being wonky.

But yeah, just pirate GOG.

Also, there are a shit ton of user made maps and such that are fun when you're done with the real games.

[Anonymous No.4423563]

>>4419864
I haven't played on pc but they were fine on PlayStation. It's Prince of Persia in 3d. Once you get that the controls make sense for what you're doing. The first one is the least like an action game and most like a puzzle game which I think makesit the best.

[Anonymous No.4423564]

>>4423490
she doesn't really look physically muscular enough in that pic to pull off the shit she does

both men and women are kind of idiotic I guess

[Anonymous No.4423581]

>>4423564

Actually you're the one who are kind idiotic, free climbers are not muscular at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B76ysGuyi7M

[Anonymous No.4423594]

>>4423490
Lara NEVER needed guys in her life, but it's just that back in the 90's they didn't make some huge deal out of it. And the old, Core-era Lara was actually ruthless when the situation called for it. She had edge, and the skills to back that up, and THAT is why Lara Croft prime will always be The Best.

[Anonymous No.4423604]

>>4423490
Lara is basically dead now.
If they really wanted to change her character she should have become more like Bayonetta, not whatever this is.

[Anonymous No.4423607]

>>4423604
The OG timeline Lara was 27 in 1997. Would she still continue doing her adventures now, in 2017, at age 47?

[Anonymous No.4423610]

nu-lara sucks and so did PS2 era Lara, good thing they aren't retro to discuss here.

>>4423607
Do they ever specifically mention dates?

[Anonymous No.4423616]

>>4419864
Tomb Raider's controls are received better if you acknowledge that it is a step based platformer, and not a third person shooter.

[Anonymous No.4423619]

>>4423581
except she's not a fucking free-climber, she does a shit ton of acrobatic shit that you can't pull off without killer ass and thighs and more developed chest/shoulders

this chick looks like she might be ready for yoga or track and field or some shit, not backflips and handsprings

ain't no fucking real athlete looking like that

[Anonymous No.4423624]

>>4420047

I agree. Just beat the 1st one last year and I was completely amazed

[Anonymous No.4423638]

>>4423610
Core's official bio from the 90's specifically gives her DOB as February 14, 1968. Unless debunked elsewhere, it's assumed that the OG Tomb Raider took place on the year it was released, which would be 1996. So Lara was 28, and today she'd be (gasp) 49. So certainly feeling the age by now. And consider all the injuries she's suffered during that time.

[Anonymous No.4423643]

>>4421429
>moves programmed into her repertoire are gimmicks when used in combat to avoid attacks
This is your brain on modern ''''''games'''''''

[Anonymous No.4423649]

>>4423638
>fictional characters age progresses the same way as real people

So Mario should be what now, 60 years old?

[Anonymous No.4423650]

>>4423649
Yep, a jolly old fat guy.

[Anonymous No.4423665]

Is there no hope for a source port?

[Anonymous No.4423670]

>>4423665
(IP now owned by Square Enix)

I'd say you're fucked.

[Anonymous No.4423671]

>>4423665
>tomb raider at 144hz 4k
>Brutal Tomb Raider
>H-Tomb Raider
>A mod that makes the game control like Mario 64 mixed with Max Payne
lets do it

[Anonymous No.4423679]

>>4423554
You need a multipatch for tr2 and 3, I had issues with them too.

[Anonymous No.4423683]

>>4423643
I was talking about rolling in melee distance, nice strawman.

[Anonymous No.4423714]

All five classic Tomb Raider games can now be played in HD widescreen.

The first game needs an ATI patch which comes with a Win32 executable that can be further modded:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ptYJcly_w

As for the rest, just install the widescreen patch:
http://tombraiders.net/stella/downloads/widescreen.html

[Anonymous No.4423732]

>>4423649
naw he'd only be 52, if he was 25 in 1985.

but there's never been any timeline in the games and all the marios could have happened over the space of a few years or so, since all the games happen in a single day or at most a few weeks.

[Anonymous No.4423964]

>>4420430
Fluid is a bit of an exaggeration, but it doesn't matter a ton since you have auto aim. The fighting is just filler in Tomb Raider.

[Anonymous No.4424446]

>>4423490
Nu-Lara is CUTE. She's overpowered to the point of absurdity but at least she doesn't look like a Hollywood bimbo with a face full of botox.

[Anonymous No.4424461]

>>4424446
She exists to die in multiple horrific ways and need QTE help for the simplest of things. She's just a gornstar.

[Anonymous No.4424487]

>>4424461
>horrific

Don't you mean arousing?

[Anonymous No.4424495]

>>4419864
w a s d doesn't do w a s diddly-squit.
you have to use the arrow keys, like a mug.

[Anonymous No.4425008]

>>4424495
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Your main keys are control and alt, which is weird and annoying because you're in constant danger of hitting the Windows key.

[Anonymous No.4425038]

I have to say, I could never get into TLR, but after the first few levels (Who the fuck thought that putting a mandatory tutorial in the fourth game of a well established series was a good Idea?) I'm hooked. Sense of exploration and progression is fantastic. It feels like the true successor to the original (not that I have anything against 2 or 3, but I didn't particular care for areas like Venice or London)

[Truth No.4425071]

>>4420081
>Literally on point list
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

[Anonymous No.4425105]

>>4420013
Where's tomb raider the times?

[Anonymous No.4425186]

>>4421872
>The irony is tank controls are perfect for when you can't control the camera, and I'd say even mandatory. Play REmake with the modern controls.

This. Tomb Raider's controls are actually good for the game they're designed around. It's Prince of Persia in 3D with sexy Indiana Jones.

[Anonymous No.4425212]

>>4423475
Length is not difficulty, it's tedium. Something can be short while being challenging.

[Anonymous No.4425313]

>>4425212
Except methodical movement doesn't simply mean "length", it means precise timing, lining up angles, step measuring distances, etc. Much like length isn't automatically difficulty, nor is it automatically tedium. It's not filler in Tomb Raider, it's an important part of negotiating obstacles and puzzles.

>>4423683
Yes, you were talking about a quick move she has that is good for avoiding melee distance attackers, and most likely was programmed with that in mind seeing as how it's only has very limited use in non combat parts of the game. Nice misuse of the term "strawman" and "gimmicks".

[Anonymous No.4425435]

>>4421585
>The platforming is very very methodical and laborious.

How is this a bad thing?

>Something that would take five seconds in Quake takes twenty in Tomb Raider.

This is like saying "Something that would take five seconds in CoD takes twenty in Operation:Flashpoint".

[Anonymous No.4425484]

I've played Legends, Anniversary, and the reboot. Where do I go from here?

Are those isometric co-op ones good for single player only?

[Anonymous No.4425492]

>>4425484
Underworld is fantastic.

[Anonymous No.4425605]

Never found her atttractive until ps2. Nice old games though.

[Anonymous No.4425714]

>>4425008
The windows key wasn't always there.
I remember the good old days where ctrl and alt were sitting next to each other.
On my keyboard there's even a function key in between, next to the windows one.
I hate this useless key.

[Anonymous No.4425729]

>>4425435
Damage was fucked in every Tomb Raider.

[Anonymous No.4425784]

>>4425484
>>4425492
I wouldn't say fantastic, but it is OK. Very glitchy though, make sure you make multiple save files. My dad and I were playing through it at the same time and we both got caught by different unskipable glitches where we'd just spawn and die instantly. For retro, give TR1 a try. It's the most straightforward of all the classic games and it's a lot different to Anniversary.

[Anonymous No.4425886]

>>4425435
Because they're meaninglessly laborious. The platforming isn't as interesting or strategic as it thinks it is. There is very rarely an A-ha! of solving a jump or climbing up yet another ledge. It's like filler.

Tomb Raider is the "Generic JRPG" of 3D platformers.

[Anonymous No.4425910]

>>4425714
You do realize that you can just get rid of this key physically?

[Anonymous No.4425912]

>>4425886
>laborious
I described in one of these threads that I felt tired after playing these original TR games for the first time recently. You showed exactly the reason.

[Anonymous No.4425924]

>>4425910
B-b-but that would then trigger my OCD!

[Anonymous No.4425930]

>>4425784
Not to mention short. I remember beating it and thinking huge portions of the game being cut out or something. Also console only DLC which is lame. Otherwise it's the best modern Tomb out there, imo.

[Anonymous No.4426141]

>>4425886
They're not really 3D platformers the way Mario 64 or Spyro are. They're exploration puzzle games where there is some platforming along the way. Very understandable that they don't appeal to everyone, but not necessarily bad. I like Tomb Raider far far more than the other games menrioned.

[Anonymous No.4426145]

>>4425784
>4425492 here

Yes glitchy I would agree, and on the shirt side but I still loved it. Tomb Raider 1 is still one of my favorite PS1 games, but I found a lot of the series disappointing after that game. Underworld is the only other one I really loved.

[Anonymous No.4426452]

>>4425492
>>4425784
Alright I got Underworld. I'll make a shitload of saves. It was $1.34 so even if it's unplayable it's not a lot of damage.

[Anonymous No.4426709]

>>4419864
Tomb Raider's controls are perfect the second you acknowledge you that you are playing a 3D version of flashback and not a third person shooter.

It's a puzzle game, not an action game.

[Anonymous No.4426815]

>>4426452
Playing it now, seems pretty great so far. Definitely better than Legends and Anniversary.

- Graphics are A+
- camera and controls are better
- button prompts are actually for controller and not a keyboard
- swimming underwater is a lot of fun
- Lara's legs and feet get dirty when she walks around and rinse off clean again in the water

Only thing is I don't see any way to manually reload or pick up ammo from enemies. Also it seems to be continually making new autosaves instead of rewriting old ones and I can't delete them. So far I have four autosaves, is this going to continue?

Anyway thanks to the anon who recommended it. I'm actually enjoying playing it instead of just trying to "get through it" like the last two. Just made off the ship and into the jungle.

[Anonymous No.4427997]

>>4421889
Mona Lisa is considered pretty blah and the painting wasn't even considered all that good until it was stolen, then it became good for business.

[Anonymous No.4427998]

>>4426709
>a 3D version of flashback

[Anonymous No.4428060]

>>4427997
Well, what about Venus de Milo then? You've got the idea, I'm sure.

[Anonymous No.4430025]

>>4419864
>Are the original Tomb Raiders worth buying on PC?
Not really.
I'm the same as you, even back in the day I could never get into the original Tomb Raider games (1 - Chronicles) because of the awful controls both in platforming and combat. Which sucked because I loved the concept and level design. I still played them and got relatively far on TR2 and TR4, but never actually got to the end in any of them or played them seriously.

The Legend trilogy (Legend, Anniversary, Underworld) is great though. They're the only really good TR games IMO.

[Anonymous No.4430107]

>>4430025
>awful controls
Here's that meme again

[Anonymous No.4430142]

>>4419872
You had to grow up with this type of thing. To go back now is to rewire your brain. Scratch playing any other game until you beat this.

[Anonymous No.4430170]

>>4430142
Kind of feel that way toward PS2 era now. It was fine at the time, but after experiencing the refined controls of later gens it's just so hard to go back.

[Anonymous No.4430371]

>>4430170
What's different since ps2?

[Anonymous No.4430380]

>>4430025
What I like about LAU and their controls is that Lara feels like a strong spring and ready to go whenever you push a button.

[Anonymous No.4430382]

>>4420081
it's called unfinished business because it's unfinished

[Anonymous No.4431191]

>>4430371
Better camera mainly. Also TPS shooting mechanics have usually more depth. In Vice City you could only just stand there and get shot at and hope you kill the other guy before he kills you. I'm not a big fan of cover based shooting but it's better to have it than not.

[Anonymous No.4431643]

>>4421854

>Also those enormous lips were a turn off too.

Anon, where I come from those are known as "dick-suckin' lips", and they're a much-desired trait in a woman.

[Anonymous No.4431739]

>>4423554
>just pirate from the company that made compatibility errors go away
Get a job and buy the games so the company will have incentive to continue making things work again.
Or, pirate the original releases, then do your own work-arounds. Don't take money from the guys who actually supply a half-way decent service.

[Anonymous No.4432467]

>>4431191
>GTA being any kind of authority for TPS
There were way better TPS on the PS2 and they didn't have to have a cover system.

[Anonymous No.4432503]

>>4426815
>camera and controls are better
How can you say that? I found those to be worse than in Anniversary and Legend.

[Anonymous No.4432585]

>>4431191
You should play Max Payne, you'll forget about cover-based shit right away.
In fact, I think it would have been great if they made Legend in this way with slow-mo at any time and acrobatic shooting. You have to jump on enemy up close for activating slow-mo.

[Anonymous No.4433246]

>>4432503
I don't know mang, A and L just felt so loose and sloppy to me, really unfinished. I haven't finished Underworld yet but I'm 5 hours in and it feels so much tighter. She jumps where I tell her to. Having the directions be dependent on the camera angle for all the games was a mistake though. You push right to jump right but if the camera is slightly off or moves a little suddenly you're hitting "down" instead and she jumps off 90 degrees different than what you intended. I have that happen a lot less with this game.