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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 787 KB, 1300x1492, thief_by_ogilac.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4391912 No.4391912 [Reply] [Original]

Thief thread, taffers. What are you stealing on this fine night?

>> No.4391967
File: 717 KB, 1280x1440, 1473011661295.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Didn't even notice the last thread died.

>> No.4392075

Time to resume the historical FM research, in the hope of getting to the good part of it and answer to many of the unsolved mysteries of the early Thief years. Will lord Bafford ever be left alone? When is Basso's sister gonna show her gratitude?
I shouldn't be so surprised that there's a fanfiction about it. What really surprises me is that it's not sarcastically narrated by Garrett.

>> No.4392142
File: 188 KB, 654x539, 1452387095021.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Stop opening doors.

>> No.4392153


>Stop opening doors.
Wesker approves

>> No.4392238

Saw this video in my recommended. Kinda interesting.


>> No.4392336

Fucking kek. Best Varg post I've ever seen.

>> No.4392365


20 minutes in... good vid so far

>> No.4392461


Just finished it. Good analysis, his humour can be a bit cringe but he kept it to a minimum so that's good. The stuff about stem response programing was really interesting. I think I read somewhere that Ken Levine actually came up with some of those audio design ideas by ripping off old DOS submarine games.

>> No.4392495
File: 171 KB, 782x440, Taffers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This shit makes me glad that I come to /vr/ every once in a while when the planets align to look for a Thief thread.

Ain't gonna finish it now though.

>> No.4392505

Thief 1/Gold and 2 are arguably the best games ever. I don't think there's ever been a better combination of immersion and fun.

>> No.4393118

You didn't *hic*

...hold the fort. It's dead. These... taffers have no respect for such a... BEAUTIFUL thing.

>> No.4393145

You can't ask a taffer to guard something after all.
Now I do wonder with a mix of horror and curiosity if an escort FM exists.

>> No.4393182

Deus ex?

>> No.4393184

System Shock 1

>> No.4393585
File: 1.89 MB, 1546x1283, 2007_36.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Interesting video, Thief just chugs along as a game that overall nobody yet matched.
Its actually really incredible.

I wonder if today Thief games would be the same?
I shiver when I think about Underworld ascendant using Unity.
I mean I really dislike Bioshock and Infinite story but I cant deny Levine thematic influence in Thief which apparently was a small amount, and SS2. And imagine we got everyone and get them to make Thief would it be okay, is our culture still the same? Can we still 70s prog rock in 2017?
Arkane is a disappointment and Harvey Smith is a failure, now that Raphael left fuck them.

I mean we came a long way technically, and despite being easy as shit, Western triple A games have all the power of modern graphics so I wonder.

>> No.4393690
File: 471 KB, 1840x2069, showcase3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I really don't understand why people hate the Unity engine. Sure in the case of Underworld its lighting deficiencies may be a problem considering how dynamic everything has to be, but it's not a bad engine. I think it's just gotten a bad rap from all of the indie shovelware shat out by trillions of talentless cucksuckers due to it being free.

This is what Thief looks like in super basic level Unity done with no skills.

>> No.4393740

Is it supposed to loog good, looks exactly like Unity? Those wood and wall textures are crap.

And I know Unity can be used by professionals but still.

>> No.4393789

Of course they're crap, made with no skills. But it's not an asset flip where some hack buys a ton of pre-made shit from the asset store and clumps it together. Using graphics as an example was probably not a good idea when defending Unity. Everyone who likes the Looking Glass immersive sim genre cares little about graphical quality. It's all about the complexity of the systems, and with Unity it's really easy to create those.

>> No.4393868

>Everyone who likes the Looking Glass immersive sim genre cares little about graphical quality.
Yes, but I think most people who play Thief do care about art direction. Thief might look terrible from a technical perspective, but it has a very distinct artstyle that makes it look a thousand times better than the Unity screenshot in that pic.
It would take a really good artist with a clear vision of what made the old games so good looking to recreate that in an engine with better graphical fidelity, it's not just the lightning.

>> No.4393918

Unpopular opinion: besides a select few areas, Thief 2's coloured lighting looks worse than Thief 1's white lighting

>> No.4393957

I think the warm look colored lighting gives T2 makes sense for that game but I do prefer the look of T1.

>> No.4393972
File: 101 KB, 1920x1080, Afuckinglamppost.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Exactly this. To me Thief style in a modern engine would be a bit like the ingame cut scenes. A bizarre dream look with that slight german expressionist gothic and neo classical style.

Alongside the toned down steampunk Thief is truly one of the most unique settings ever made for a videogame.

>> No.4394004

T1 FM: Wanted: Dead or Alive
Simple and sloppy brushwork. The map is not difficult to navigate, but I have little idea where I am? A castle? Sometimes weird use of textures, like the carpet is Baffords banner. Two different night skies. I've seen a floating health potion and a floating second triangle-toothed lockpick (what's a good name for a third lockpick?). There's a double door where only the left one can be opened. The craymen don't attack. The major part of this FM is that it forces you to use violence and that you have kill objectives. I was wondering what a good motivation for killing would be. Probably money.

You can't finish the FM because of Newdark?
>Newdark issue
>key does not open door to prison area
>Solution install Voodoo's dml fix
i dont want to play it any more anyways

>> No.4394119

Precious Cargo was probably the most T1-esque mission in T2, and incidentally also one of my favourite missions in that game. Blackmail also comes close.

>> No.4394170

It does, mostly because the base Thief 2 palette is very muted compared to the very colorful Thief 1 palette.

>> No.4394469

Are there any recommended mods/fixes for Thief 3? I've been putting it off for a while and I have to see for myself if it's as bad as everyone claims it is.

>> No.4394557

I think it's called Sneaky Tweaker. It's a configuration program that lets you activate and deactivate various gameplay fixes. It also includes some aesthetic changes such as giving Garrett clothed arms and removing the edgelord eye scar that was retconned into the game by the marketing department ten minutes before launch and doesn't match any of the cutscenes.

The biggest change is probably the fact that the patch removes the loading zones in the missions.

>> No.4394629

Awesome thanks.

>> No.4394870
File: 132 KB, 1920x1080, 2015-10-20_00003.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


I need to make some good Thief screenshots from the most famous missions. You never see many.

>> No.4395229


>> No.4395263

thanks for the video, I'd surely skip it on my own as some sort of let's play

>> No.4395478

>tfw greatest game of all time and every aspect of it makes me cum
>to scary to play through

fuck me Im weak as shit. any help?

>> No.4395512


Wish I could help, but I have the same problem :(

>> No.4395598


Get someone to play with you. Little 6yo me was too afraid to play Doom in '94 but it was fine when there was someone else there.

>> No.4395619


are you guys 10 years old?

>> No.4395809

Sneaking and exploring are your main tools, through them you can get to know both your enemies and the levels. The former behave pretty much all the same and are inferior to the player when he moves in the shadows. Only few of them break the rules. Fire shadows and elementals emit their own light and zombies will make you waste resources but, on the other hand, they're almost harmless. Apply this concept to a whole mission: through your skills and some patience (or the quicksave key) you can rise above any possible threat.
The game variety and ability to surprise is what made for me the start of Escape even more unsettling than the dreaded Cathedral. I stress the "get to know" part this much because it's what made me fall in love with Thief's atmosphere and monstrosities in the end. The game's spookyness, more than trying to shock you, challenges you to keep going deeper. Worth it or not, it's where the loot is at.

>> No.4395851

No they are most likely 15 year olds living with single mom.

>> No.4395923

man up. It's so worth it.
And you'll be a greater man for standing up against your fears

>> No.4396279
File: 38 KB, 256x256, Gar01.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How do I make this Garrett skin texture more like the Garrett from Thief The Dark Project/Gold?
It looks he has a dark blue tunic. The tunic has two vertical lines. Maybe with a dark grey sweater and a pair of pants in the same colour underneath. Silver belt buckle. Brown armbands. Brown gloves or darkblue gloves with a black patch on it. No mechanical eye. How should I do it? I have GIMP.


>> No.4396292

i tried to get into the first game but being able to save anywhere makes it boring.

>> No.4396296

I did something like that just recently, I can hook you up if you can wait a few hours for me to get home

>> No.4396325

Swell, could you also explain how you did it?

>> No.4396403
File: 14 KB, 128x256, garrett.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I have this one for Garrett.

>> No.4396474

Did you make that yourself?

>> No.4396509

No. I don't remember where I got it from though.

>> No.4396534

If there is a fault in the old Thief games I would give my left nut to correct is the Guards holding the sword while patrolling. I guess its impossible to correct.

>> No.4396556

A couple of FMs have the guards with their swords shealthed until they're alerted. Behind Closed Doors comes to mind.

>> No.4396559

Really? I thought it was impossible because of the way models are handled in the Dark engine.

Then we need to make all guards in Thief 1\2 unsheathe when alerted.

>> No.4396568

In Thief 1 and 1, the swords are part of the guards' models. I guess Behind Closed Doors has guard models without the swords and instead have swords as objects attached to their belt and then their right hand when they're alerted.

>> No.4396569

I think the Guards in Thief 1 and 2 would benefit from that. In 1998 it was fine to have them carry the sword around, and I guess apebeasts is fine but humans come on.

The bow guys also are okay.

>> No.4396604

That's the default thief character texture from Thief 1. Quince (or Jakow) in Assassins has that character model.

>> No.4396607

Having them unsheathe the sword is also a good way to show a certain level of alert, especially when they keep it that way when they're well aware that the player is around like in more modern games.

>> No.4396610

DDFIX should have added that seriously.

>> No.4396614

DDFix was just a graphics fix, nothing more.

Oh okay, I wasn't aware.

>> No.4396637
File: 140 KB, 872x703, 19_throne.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>That's the default thief character texture from Thief 1.

Uh no, it's a block of wood with a smiley face on it. Since you never see it, the devs never bothered with anything more complicated. There's a picture of him in the blooper reel above the throne.

>> No.4396643

You know I hope those faggots at Otherside do a decent job with Ascendant and SS3, after Dishonored,Mankind Divided and Prey bombing the immersive sim with their shittiness.

I would love to see what Dark Camelot would be or a modern version fps rpg of Dark Camelot, the idea itself is great.

>> No.4396675

I'm pretty sure he meant that it was used for thief characters (i.e. the assassins), not that it was used for garrett

>> No.4396684

Prey is probably the best System Shock 3 we're ever going to get. I have a bad feeling the actual SS3 is just going to pander to SS2 fans who only care about muh horror and RPG elements. I'd like them to take it more in a SS1 direction, but I don't see that happening. But who knows we can't really judge Otherside yet until they release Ascendant.

>> No.4396697

Prey is a great game but with deadly neo arkane faults, boring emails (although decent main characters), too easy compared to the Impossible dif in SS2 and terrible enemy design and lack of weapons.
The game does even work to its strengths giving you a way to detect mimics, which are not a threat anyway a third of the way in.

A much better attempt than Dishonored but maybe too late.
Triple A munches on these games souls, Mankind Divided bombing and Prey just makes me realize that what makes a immersive sim is just going all out and not being tame about systems.
I guess its karmically even since tons of games have benefited from the LGS experiment, all the way form Thief, Splinter Cell, Metal Gear Phantom and many others in a long line. Heck even RE7 had Immersive sim aspects.

>> No.4396726

Default thief character model =/= player character model

>> No.4396739
File: 18 KB, 128x256, THIEFSW.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


It looks like it was edited to give garrett that purple coat he uses in thief 2. Here's the default thief for t1

>> No.4396778

Thats the Garret skin in Thief 1?
Prefer the assassin one>>4396403

Never really liked his green one in Thief 2.

>> No.4397463

No. Garrett's character model in Thief 1 is a brown block with a smiley face on it as someone else already said.

>> No.4397612
File: 1.74 MB, 1267x1189, t3outfit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

By the way when Deadly Shadows was still called Thief III, Garrett had a better outfit and very nice studded leather bracers. You can still see the outfit and the lack of a glowing eye with a scar in the pre-rendered cutscenes of the final game.

>> No.4397783

what's up with the dagger in DS? a professional doesn't leave a mess.

the sword made more sense, as it's an all round weapon that can be used to bash in doors and kill monsters when needed. but the dagger? that's just for stabbing people, isn't it?

>> No.4397874

People have debated this since 2004. I personally don't mind the inclusion of the dagger, or more importantly the loss of the sword. Firstly the dagger is used for cutting paintings off frames. Secondly even if TDS did support bashing down doors, using a sword to do it was always ridiculous. You're literally just applying attack damage onto the object until its health reaches zero. It makes no real world sense, and any sensible person would use slamming their own body weight onto the door instead. Thirdly TDS incentivizes escape over combat even more than the previous games. Flashbombs can't be used to knock out alerted enemies, and there are more tools for temporarily incapacitating enemies, such as oil slicks and moss choking. Even the dreaded climbing gloves allow better escapes because you don't need to attach a rope in a hurry.

Sure it would be the immersive sim design decision to include the option to do sword combat, but it's about as necesary as swimming in a game with no water pathways in its level design.

>> No.4397974

>Secondly even if TDS did support bashing down doors, using a sword to do it was always ridiculous.
Gameplay > realism. Bashing a door open implied making huge amounts of noise. It was a good trade off gameplay wise.

>Firstly the dagger is used for cutting paintings off frames.
Which you never do in game and it's simply implied. Garrett could be cutting them with his teeth for all you know.

>Thirdly TDS incentivizes escape over combat even more than the previous games.
TDS missions were much smaller and the inclusion of loading zones broke the flow of gameplay because ai couldn't follow you though them. Those inclusions were just a band aid fixes to core issues.

>more tools for temporarily incapacitating enemies, such as oil slicks and moss choking.
Which were completely redundant and added nothing new to the gameplay. They were fucking ridiculous too, much worse than bashing doors since at least that mechanic served a purpose.

>Even the dreaded climbing gloves allow better escapes because you don't need to attach a rope in a hurry.
The gloves were fucking shit. You literally had to guess which wall the map designer intended to be climbable because the distinction between climbalbe and non climbable was so unclear. And even if it was climbable, chances were there would be nowhere to go to and you'd be stuck with the ai waiting for you on the floor.

>Sure it would be the immersive sim design decision to include the option to do sword combat
Sword = useful all-around tool, Dagger = assassins weapon.

>but it's about as necesary as swimming in a game with no water pathways in its level design.
>It's ok because the level design is shit too!

>> No.4397983

The Sword for me just makes Garrett more badass D&D rogue, and could be an optional weapon for tomb raiding and undead smashing.

For mansion missions a dagger is fine.

>> No.4398003

The sword doesn't make much sense to me, it's a huge and unwieldy weapon, and Garrett isn't that good at swordfighting in the first place. The only monsters I can remember killing with a sword are the spiders, which might as well be dispatched with a dagger instead.
If they really wanted you to break down doors without a sword they could've given you a stomp button, which is also how you'd do it in reality.
I also recall reading that the only reason why they left the sword in the game instead of giving you a dagger is because Thief was originally going to be a swordfighting game like Dark Messiah, but they scrapped the idea because it wasn't viable at the time.

>> No.4398025

The sword is a better choice for self defense in case of getting caught. At the very least you can parry incoming attacks. A dagger is only good at stabbing.

>> No.4398034

>The only monsters I can remember killing with a sword are the spiders
how did you kill the haunts in return to the cathedral?

>> No.4398060

Finally got around to uploading the skin; if anyone knows where the UI textures for Garrett holding a body are, I can fix those too

>> No.4398078

>Thief 1: Hammer Haunts carry swords because their unholy bodies are unfit to wield the holy Hammer
>Thief 2: Hammer Haunts carry hammers because hurr durr Hammerites
I really prefer the Thief 1 models in many ways

>> No.4398174


I love the sword as well, it also felt like a weird choice for a Thief back then, bu then my younger self then thinks " Garrett is such a master Thief he even carries a sword no problem"

>> No.4398275

I solved the door problem by brutally deleting both that door and the one that lead to the throne room through dromed.
This one was harder to set up than completing. At first I was like "Well, this sucks but I'll try to get all the loot and get rid of the guards like a ninja" but my good intentions died pretty soon. The level mission like a dungeon crawling session but every enemy encounter is somewhat trying and repetitive. I either ran into them in the claustrophobic hallways (truth be told it's just a small part of the level), or rooms filled with them where it wasn't clear if I needed to get into or not. In general, the place is full of dead ends that you have to explore because what you're looking for could be anywhere. Exploration is one of Thief's cornerstones but since the place made no sense (thanks to the
sarcophagus beds the guard barracks looked more like a catacomb's great hall) it felt more like trial and error. The result is that the mission felt longer and labyrinthine when it was actually simple and not so complex. A trait that could turn into a quality under the right circumstances, in this case we don't even know if it was intentional.
What I liked was the premise, simple and to the point. Kidnap one because they paid you, kill one because it's personal. It sounded like something you could build an interesting mission around. Two target, two objectives (Melan's Penny Dreadful comes to mind, maybe there's more). For a moment I forgot that I should abandon these hopes for now and let the good FMs surprise me.

>what's a good name for a third lockpick?
Was it T2X the one with a third lockpick? Or did they just have different names?

>> No.4398293

Holy water and fire arrows, as far as I remember. I don't wanna be anywhere close to those things if I can help it.

>> No.4398304


Haunts are pussies once you know how to play the game, flashbombs can kill them.

>> No.4398398

I'm at Sabotage at soulforge on my first playthrough.
It's been months since I've played Thief 2, and I kind of forgot what I should do. This level is kind of iffy to me. Should I start over?

Also, I wasn't a big fan of Casing the Joint or Masks - Is this a common opinion or am I being a contrarian?

>> No.4398404
File: 2.15 MB, 1920x1080, Tower.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How do i make this jump?

>> No.4398421

You should start over, I do that every time I let more than a few days pass since I started a level.

>> No.4398426

deus ex is like you took every influential LGS game, combined them and made them all shitty

>> No.4398434

>Was it T2X the one with a third lockpick? Or did they just have different names?
iirc you started out with a hairpin, but replace it with a real pair of lockpicks later on.

>> No.4398449
File: 74 KB, 197x172, 1508614062832.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Thy bait doth not please the builder; recieve thy pounding

>> No.4398464
File: 321 KB, 1024x768, tg-boxart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Most if it is changing the colours. Shouldn't be too hard.
How would you create those two vertical lines?

There's a squared-toothed and a triangle-toothed lockpick (what textures do they use?). You'd assume the Hammerites would create better locks after all these thefts. What's a possible name for a third one? How could you make it work, without lockpicking becoming to much of a chore?

>> No.4398497

is there a reason to bind the walk forward key in these games

>> No.4398513

Either strafe run and then jump, or chug a speed potion. Or bunny hop.

You're not being a contrarian. Casing the Joint is usually seen as one of the weakest levels in the game, and while Masks is a good mission in its own right, having Casing just before it ruins it.

>> No.4398526

Only if you wanna walk forward

>> No.4398610
File: 367 KB, 547x417, dark camelot knights.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

the dark camelot designs sure had some cyberpunky elements to them.

>> No.4398715

>>Firstly the dagger is used for cutting paintings off frames.
>Which you never do in game and it's simply implied. Garrett could be cutting them with his teeth for all you know.

By that logic it's also merely "implied" that Garrett opens doors by grabbing the handle with his hand, and that loot items don't just teleport into his pockets. You do realize that the "animate everything regardless of negative consequences" was the biggest mistake Thi4f ever made, right?

>> No.4398728

Shut up, that game does not exist.

>> No.4398731

This really pissed me off desu.

>> No.4398750


>By that logic it's also merely "implied" that Garrett opens doors by grabbing the handle with his hand, and that loot items don't just teleport into his pockets.

you got it champ

>> No.4398875

Why the fuck is Thief 3 so buggy? Even with that fan patch moving around feels janky and mantling simple walls works like half the time.

>> No.4398883

was mantling not broken in olddark too?

>> No.4399708
File: 1.46 MB, 1920x1080, 1464994285082.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Precious Cargo is a nice mission. I think it gets overlooked because of Life of the Party being right before it.

>> No.4399786

Welp, then I really don't remember which mission was it, or if there was one.

>How could you make it work, without lockpicking becoming to much of a chore?
Probably two is the perfect number. Having a third one to pick from when switching between them would be more annoying than challenging, locks are already meant to make you waste some time in front of important doors. Although what you said about hammerites made me imagine an advanced lock that would require first of all the third lockpick, and then the right choice between the other two.
It still sounds like a chore though. It's probably one of those essential parts of Thief that are fine as they are, or that can't be improved by adding something to it. Changing it to the core may do the trick. For example I find interesting the idea behind TDM's lockpicking. It's still automatic but it requires attention and the right timing, pratically a middle ground between the usual and the minigame kind of lockpicking.

>> No.4399801

it was the mission in T2 that gave me the strongest sense of adventure. it's the only mission in the game that featured ruins in some form. plus, it's huge and open-ended. the base was disorganised and chaotic thanks to the flooding and the remaining pirate ruins. going into the submarine, which felt wonderfully anachronistic, was a great ending.

>> No.4400313

I love Thief 2 but it definitely lacks balance in story. Except for the great moment when you go back to the Maw, Thief 3 meshes normal missions with supernatural in a much better way. With the pagan territory, the shipwreck and Cradle meshing really well with the normal missions.

Brosius did amazing work on 3, the only stuff really hampering it, are the lack of between mission cutscenes ( Garret narrating is just not the same) and the console limitations.

I can envision a Thief 3 done in the visual style of 1 and 2 using the same sounds and overall story and being the pinnacle of all Thief games.

>> No.4400560
File: 30 KB, 465x350, pagan4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Deadly Shadows has a lot of missed opportunities in its design. Fortunately there never was a superior or even on par sequel so it doesn't matter that good ideas were badly implemented.

-Undead pirate ship level is just a few rooms in a side section of the city hub open world

-Underwater city of amphibious humanoids wasted on a game without an engine that supports swimmable water for players and AI

-"Tallest building in the City" (Clock Tower) that you can't see out of

-"Silent telepathic Keeper assassins" are the loudest and least conspicuous enemies in the game

-Devout pagan village in some distant swamps in the forest had to be relocated into downtown ruins because the "open world mission hub" didn't allow missions to take place beyond the distance of a stone's throw. This also retconned the pagans' aversion to manfool architecture and rejection of city living

>> No.4400606

>-Underwater city of amphibious humanoids wasted on a game without an engine that supports swimmable water for players and AI
Don't forget the worst part is that it's basically at sewer level under the city and is almost completely flat as well as tiny because Xbox.

Compare that shit to The Lost City in t1, you go down a giant fucking stream and down a waterfall and then down a huge cavernous walkway before you're even close to the lost city itself.

The sunken citadel or whatever the fuck it's called in TDS is the most wasted opportunity of all time. Someone should do a reimagining of it in T1/T2 with Craymen & those custom Cthulhu monsters.

>> No.4400620
File: 41 KB, 256x256, Archer02.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This armband?

>> No.4400625
File: 35 KB, 256x256, ThiefS01.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Or this one?

>> No.4400637
File: 168 KB, 1294x1074, tds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I made this to illustrate my point.

>> No.4400663

>virgin citadel vs chad city

>> No.4400683
File: 235 KB, 1294x1074, tds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Didn't realize I pretty much almost made the image in that format. Here you go.

>> No.4400706

Deadly Shadow's UI is so hideous and one of the first things you see when you start up the game is how they decided to use papyrus. Talk about starting off on the wrong foot.

>> No.4400756

Thankfully Sneaky Upgrade lets you use the Thief1/2 hud. Better than nothing I guess.

>> No.4400767

It's too bad that's part of the minimalist mod which for some reason changes how all of the difficulty modes work.

>> No.4400771

I'm fairly certain that the Sneaky Tweaker lets you activate any, all or no aspects of the Minimalist Project.

>> No.4400780
File: 891 KB, 1024x768, cthulhu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Indeed, its disappointing, nevertheless Thief 3 has the vibe and finishes the trilogy well thematically, wreck pagans and chaos ass, wreck mecha autists order ass, wreck masonic elitists radical centrists ass.

I can imagine the sunken citadel being an amazing level if done in the dark engine vibe and size, with eldritch horrors in dark corners, and in dark water pits.
Fuck Imagine what we could do today with the level of assets and level size faggots like Ubisoft have.

>> No.4400784


Oh man I can also imagine the Keeper assassins being the worst kind of enemy, one shot killing you from shadows.

>> No.4400785
File: 276 KB, 1920x1080, playgear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Shame. Needs pictures.

>> No.4401028

Of all the flaws that hold TDS back, I wouldn't change the enforcers part with anything. The chaos that completely engulfs the City ends up being hilarious. That's what happens when posers try to be true neutrals, I suppose. The fact that at that point Garrett is everyone's buddy doesn't help either.
Ok, better assassins actually hunting down the player would be a really neat threat, more so in what usually is a safe zone. Still, I love my enforcers.

>> No.4401184

It would be an actual amazing flip for the last part of the Thief series.

Garrett has used the shadows to hunt and hide and now reversed, having those Keepers assassins almost invisible in the dark could create some really neat tension.

>> No.4401193

Sounds like Doom

>> No.4401197

large mallets are goofy weapons, anyway.

>> No.4401790

You must be 21 years or older to open this door

>> No.4401795

Doom 2 has worse levels than Doom 1 though.

>> No.4401812

Once you've played Thief there's nothing else worth playing. Seriously. You could end your hobby playing games after.

>> No.4401818

You're wrong. There are a lot of high quality fan missions to play.

>> No.4401914

I still haven't found a more immersive and atmospheric game than Thief 1.

>> No.4401980


so does thief 2

>> No.4402048

I respect your opinion but I think that levels that are all designed around stealth as opposed to having some designed around monster combat is better stealth game level design. In Thief 2 there isn't an army of burricks and spiders guarding the only street that leads to the objective, with mandatory use of fire arrows in close proximity for the next objective. Also you don't need to use explosives in the full view of a horde of zombies and a fire shadow, and you aren't forced to backstab several enemies to finish a mission. Oh, and there isn't a mission where an unavoidable alert forces you to run past dozens of hammerites to escape.

...not to forget that the final mission isn't a literal hallway.

>> No.4402081


>Thief 2 there isn't an army of burricks and spiders guarding the only street that leads to the objective
turn the generator off, brainlet

>Oh, and there isn't a mission where an unavoidable alert forces you to run past dozens of hammerites to escape
life of the party

>...not to forget that the final mission isn't a literal hallway.
I'll take a literal hallway over the clusterfuck that was sabotage any fucking day

>> No.4402092

Ultima Underworld 1 and System Shock 1 are equally as good as Thief.

>> No.4402094

Not him but you can deactivate the alarm in Life of the Party.

>> No.4402107

>turn the generator off, brainlet

The emergency lights are what's illuminating the street with the critters. And turning off the generator doesn't make fire arrows silent.

The alarm can be disabled as >>4402094 said

>I'll take a literal hallway over the clusterfuck that was sabotage any fucking day

Sabotage is well designed. You don't know what you're talking about. Probably because you think that every mission can be completed by knocking out everyone.

>> No.4402145


>Sabotage is well designed

>Probably because you think that every mission can be completed by knocking out everyone.
ghosting is for lame tryhards

>> No.4402149
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>> No.4402208
File: 97 KB, 1680x1050, dump009.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anyone else get in super mood for playing thief when its snowy and dark outside or its just me?

>> No.4402373

Play the FM Seven Shades Of Mercury

>> No.4402667
File: 1.79 MB, 1400x3900, thief_missions.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anyone have recommendation for FMs released in the last year or so? I've played most of the ones in pic related. The best recent ones I've played are probably skacky's maps. I'm not a big fan of the ones that push the newdark limits to absurd lengths (the whole point of the expanded limits was to get RID of performance issues, dumb FM makers). Anyone got a favorite that isn't listed?

>> No.4402686 [DELETED] 
File: 37 KB, 256x256, AttOldGar01.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Does this colour look similar?
Maybe another colour?

>> No.4402740
File: 66 KB, 451x405, amazon review.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4402747

wtf is the last sentence trying to say?

>> No.4402749

I think he offers to send his copy

>> No.4402754

COD = Cash On Delivery. A lot of old infomercials would say "no CODs" because they want money before the product shows up. Otherwise, too easy to get stiffed. This term in archaic nowdays--everyone requires you to pay online--but this was pre-internet days. So the dude's probably a bit older.

tl;dr it means he'll send it to you without seeing any money first, which in this context basically means "for free"

>> No.4402765

Well whaddya know. You learn something new and obsolete every day.

>> No.4402798

why don't a group of people remake Deadly Shadows in newdark? the only part that wouldn't translate would be the city hub

>> No.4402816
File: 120 KB, 1685x2762, blue heron inn.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I made this many years ago due to how little sense the architecture of the linear training mission makes. This is still a linear design but I still think it's better than what the game shipped with.

>> No.4402893


gems of provenance is probably my favorite mission ever

>> No.4402910

Play Dirty Money, Gems of Provenance, Breathing Corpses, Nobles & Craftsman and its follow-up Unexpected Detour, Godbreaker, Watery Grave.

>> No.4402958
File: 3.98 MB, 1400x4537, 1508356276619.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

this is the updated version

>> No.4402979
File: 20 KB, 502x377, soulforge_servant.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

thanks, clever sneaksies

>> No.4403116

Can't even get people to finish the Thief 2 Gold content let alone remake the entierty of Deadly Shadows in a non-shit engine. All the people with the talent to do it prefer to work on their own stuff with full creative control - and that's fair enough. The reason why the Thief 2 Gold fan mission project died was because of this.

>> No.4403785

A shame cause it would be awesome.

>> No.4403991

Someone needs to make a comfy snow-themed FM list for christmas. There's no snow irl anymore but we still have a few years until climate change gives us Venus II.

>> No.4404569

Off the top of my head:
Life of the Party: Winter Edition
Chalice of Souls
A Thief's Holiday
Death's Cold Embrace
7th Crystal

>> No.4404592

>Seven Shades Of Mercury
Hammerite imperium map?! holy shit thanks anon

>> No.4404602

I'd also add:

Happy New Year Mr. Lambert!
A Winter's Eve (third mission of Calendra's Legacy)
Bones Ep1
Ack! There's a Zombie in the Basement

>> No.4404629

>A Winter's Eve

One thing to note about Winter's Eve is that it takes place on the same street as the Dark Project ending cutscene. Too bad the mission has more inconsequential side content than main mission content. Plus it inexplicably starts with a taffing battle scene.

To add to that list is "A Question of Knowledge" from T2X. One of the best FMs ever made in my opinion. And it's a comfy winter mission. The atmosphere is peerless.

>> No.4404695
File: 37 KB, 256x256, AttOldGar01.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Some notes: Killing someone returns in Payback. Again, for personal reasons. The little details here and there are nice, like the guy covered in shrooms, the rotten food, the knife stuck in the wood with blood splatters etc. Atmosphere! Buggy elevator. It's very convenient the prison leads to a house with a specific target, said target can be picked off from a well placed spot. What a nasty sod that nobleman. Not so dark and confusing as Cragsleft. I broke the AI of the old lady? She followed me all the way to the toilet and kept investigating in a well lit room with little space? And you talked about this previously, alert all the guards and make your escape.
About the third lockpick, I'd have to make a demo mission to see how it goes. Also, if I ever get out of the tutorial, I'd like to make an assassination FM. Garrett is a privileged thief. Not everyone is trained by the Keepers. How do the common scum look at violence?
The colour looks off.

>> No.4404720

>Bones Ep1
I know it's already on the recommended mission list, but I have to second this one as not only a fantastic winter-atmosphere mission, but a damn good mission overall. I love that it's a city mission, but doesn't rely on roof-hopping or the twisty style of Ambush!. There's plenty of climbing but you can always go down to the streets and your choice of path isn't constrained. But it's not a lame "city hub" backtracking kind of map either. It has direction.

>> No.4404747

Yeah it's a really good one. Kept me busy for hours and it's never boring.

>> No.4404943

Does skacky lurk these threads? I know he's a codexer but sometimes I feel like he's here on /vr/ too.

>> No.4405007

He's been around.

>> No.4405037

when's Black Parade fgt

>> No.4405207

Just went and played Bones Ep1 cause it's in my FMSelector along with hundreds of other ones I haven't played yet. It was really good. Very comfy atmosphere and a high level of detail. The tomb area and the spookers down there were cool.

I have to confess that even though I played on Expert with "Don't kill anyone!" objective I definitely did my fair share of cheesing with the Necromantic Arrows because they are cool as fuck. Quite a few guards died. Being able to set up your own little monster mash with zombies and frogbeasts going in on guards and hammers to clear an area out is great.

The architecture and flow of the level design was really good, it was mazelike but not overly confusing despite that like some garbage FMs you see. There were a ton of routes to take through buildings and it felt very... complete?

Good shit.

>> No.4405535

Darkloader or FMSelector?

>> No.4405539

You probably delayed it by 2 months with that

>> No.4405619

Whatever comes with newdark.

>> No.4405676

What are /vr/'s opinions on Calendra's Cistern? Other than the cringy characterization of Garrett and of that woman which almost reminded me of Thi4f's female thief character, I found it almost fun.
Almost because despite being so big, the map was still very linear, and there was only one way to get into the tavern, one way to get into the street that leads to Calendra's house, etc. And while I could bear with that, the scavenger hunt was a terrible way to justify backgracking and the head was bugged, so not only I couldn't understand what it said, it didn't even play the lines that tell you where the parts of its body are and I was so annoyed that I brought up a walkthrough to find them. And let's not forget that on expert you're supposed to find a certain character, blackjack him and bring him back to the art dealer's house at the very beginning of the mission, which I also found incredibly annoying.
Watching the undead hammer murdering all the party guests was very cathartic.

>> No.4405748

I've only played it once a decade ago and I seem to remember disliking it. I like all of the missions of the sequel despite their numerous glaring flaws, but Cistern felt like a disappointment to me. I don't remember why.

That reminds me... the Garrett voice impersonator in the Calendra series whose name slips my mind... Since Stephen Russell has gotten loads of VA roles doing Bethesda games, would it be too difficult to splice new Garrett lines from games like the new Fallouts and Skyrim? There's a character in Skyrim with Stephen doing the Garrett voice and he actually says "I don't like playing Thief" -or something like that. Which made me laugh.

>> No.4405760

DarkLoader is old. Use FMSel instead, or at least NewDarkLoader if you prefer DL's interface.

>> No.4406229

I agree almost entirely. I've complained about its linearity and the backtracking in these threads in the past and have been met with some backlash about it. The worst part about the scavenger hunt quest is that once you've activated it you're required to finish it - it doesn't become an optional objective. So if you're not using a guide it's a fucking pain in the dick completing it even if you listen to the hints.

Thankfully Calendra's Legacy is much more fun - the missions are extremely detailed and a lot more open-ended. You might enjoy those CL even if you had a salty dislike for CC like I did.

>> No.4406238


>> No.4406413

Stephen Russell also voices Corvo in Dishonored 2 doesn't he? Surely that has potential.

>> No.4406449

I think Corvo's voice is intentionally more gruff than Garrett's. He's also a pretty depressing character compared to Garrett's dry humour in all situations.

>> No.4406470

Russell does his best with the shitty writing Arkane gave him.

>> No.4407024
File: 70 KB, 1024x768, sneaking in the sea.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How hard would it be to use or even fake an underwater setting in NewDark?

>> No.4407042

Deep Trouble: City Under the Sea has some underwater areas that look quite good. I don't imagine it'd be too hard with just having an item (helmet) act like a permanent breath potion.

Your pic is great btw.

>> No.4407145

What are the best craymen-themed fan missions?

I like craymen.

>> No.4407235

Craymen don't get much love, unfortunately. Off the top of my head:
- Return to the Lost City has quite a few Craymen.
- Godbreaker Mission 2 has a temple which serves as a Crayman breeding ground.
- Nigel's Hidden Treasure has two tribes of Craymen that fight each other at one point, it's pretty funny.
- I think Ominous Bequest has a Crayman section.
- The Broadsword of Sheol has some bizarre Craymen with modified stats that are downright terrifying.

>> No.4407259


swamped has a lot of craymen

>> No.4407345

Why does every mansion in The City have a servant named Kevel and a guard named Jorek?

>> No.4407610

Falling Down from the Thief Anniversary Contest.

Anyone saw the last LGBT-themed fan-mission? I'm kinda worried that political correctness has come to FMs.

>> No.4407612

Okay -- just played Ominous Bequest since it was in my FMSel list. What a fucking crazy mission this was. Relies a bit too much on the puzzles, riddles and high functioning autism entry level requirements but it was a trip all the same with tons of shit to do and a shitload of variety. It's like if you crammed three Thief 1 missions into one map.

The craymen section was short but the dancing craymen were hilarious so it's fine. If it wasn't for the mission being a total autismcrawl with hidden switches and riddles and puzzles every 5 seconds then it would literally just be a top5 FM for me. It's not as bad as Rocksbourg 1 in that regard but it's definitely a mission that also pretty much requires hitting up the ttlg thread for clues every so often.

>> No.4407736
File: 231 KB, 400x345, untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>I'm kinda worried that political correctness has come to FMs.
>political correctness

>> No.4407798
File: 205 KB, 1680x1050, comfy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It's indeed comfy, thanks again!

>> No.4407801
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>> No.4407805
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>> No.4407817


>> No.4407885
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Holy shit the singing guard.
My sides just left this galaxy

>> No.4407912
File: 167 KB, 1680x1050, dump.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>The villain shall fall!

>> No.4407917
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>After him!

>> No.4407918
File: 163 KB, 1680x1050, dump012.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Its kinda fun to mess around with the guards from diffrent teams i could easly cheese the map like that.

>> No.4407943


>Relies a bit too much on the puzzles, riddles and high functioning autism entry level requirements
I thought the puzzles were really well implemented and never felt too gamey or out of place, unlike broken triad (its sequel), in which the gameplay feels completely centered around the puzzles and the whole thing plays like a point and click adventure.

>> No.4407946

which FM are you talking about?

>> No.4407960

I think he's talking about FTM life AKA Walking Tranny Simulator 2017

>> No.4407972

>Developer focuses more on ideology than design
>Gameplay ends up being absent

Who would've thought?

>> No.4407978

Don't you diss the best FM ever made, you transphobe!

>> No.4408006

trannies are accidentally canon in Thief. One of the cops in Shoalsgate has a female appearance but speaks with a male voice.

>> No.4408123

Mmm medieval boi pucii

>> No.4408292


all of that author's missions are like that (and he's actually made like 24 so far)

>> No.4408363

Man, this one was good.
We got two missions in a sequence that took the theme and sounds from Cragscleft (plus the assassination theme) but beside this they're almost opposites: despite its moderate size and the low challenge, this one manages to make sense and be a little story narrated through your actions.
The enviroment is well defined through details, visual ones (only the severed head is out of place/unexplained imo, can't deny it surprised me in the good way mainly for this reason) and readables, which tell a story about the place you're in and give you clues on what to do and where to look. So even if both the prison and the mansion are limited in what they actually show, they're well characterized. The mission shows less, implies more and does both things well.
The part in the center for the criminally insane is definitely one of my favorites so far, but I got lucky there: I've heard the prisoner shouting "Kill them all" only to see the sectioned ape walk around the corner, perfect timing. During a second try the inmate was already in the corridor. The fact that both the ape and bugbeasts animations always creeped me out probably played a big role, and mixing them with human models contributed to make them weird again.
The woman is definitely bugged, or completely fearless, I think she just can't go beyond the search state, not even if you attack her. She moves in slow motion when being hit or when she falls dead/unconscious.
The fact that I knew I was going to set off the alarm made it less annoying than the one in Undercover (also a bigger mission with a loot requirement). It's more like an expected challenge you can prepare for in the more calm part before it. For some reason the alarm didn't work in the half of the house with the exit, making the escape easy. Seeing that there was a button there too I thought that each guard had to activate it individually, but the second time it worked properly. Still can't manage to make it happen again.

>> No.4408602

Yeah it's definitely not as bad as some missions I've played, the puzzles at least have hints - the main problem for me was that the hints seem to be placed as secrets themselves that you have to scour each room to find, or the hints themselves require some interpretation.

An example: The vault code - once you have the book that explains it it's easy as fuck, the problem is that the book is in a hard to see, poorly lit spot on top of one of the shelves in the library and there's no indication that you need to be looking for the vault manual to find your way inside. All you know is that you need a code. So your first thought is not to actually check the library for a manual, it's to search the bedrooms and the study and the secret sections of the mansion to find a scroll/diary piece with a code on it. If you knew you had to look for the vault manual you could probably deduce that it would be in the library somewhere.

There are a few more that are a bit like this to me. You might want to accuse me of wanting to be spoonfed the solution but even after playing like 100 different fan missions of varying autistic puzzles/hidden progression this mission still stumped me a few times. Of course some rooms and objectives also just require mandatory frobbing of everything in a room to find the hidden switches, also - no shortage of that.

>> No.4408696

Arkane really mess my brain, and make me think uncomfortable thoughts.

First off I loved them in Arx Fatalis, Dark Messiah times since I knew they loved LGS legacy, and Levine was cock sucking the triple A industry with the fucking disappointment ( for me) that was bioshocks.
At least in Infinite he just made a shooter and thats it.

But Arkane going big bucks seem like on the verge of making a clasic but something held out the first Dishonored, and despite Prey being a better attempt at LGS, my first instinct was piss on Bethesda.

But I have come to realize Arkane deserves nothing, Harvey Smith is a shithead SJW of the highest order. And all their games come off as tame.

>> No.4408865

>Still can't manage to make it happen again.
Nevermind, I noticed that by killing the guard that runs for the alarm, a scripted event, no one else in the room bothers to push the big red button. Nearby guards outside the room are alerted by the noise and that's it, but the ones near the exit won't hear a thing. The alarm works fine, but it's not really forced on the player.
The first time I must have done something that stopped the guard from running for the alarm, and what happened it's still a mystery half solved.

>> No.4408974

Just played Nigel's Hidden Treasure. It's pretty amazing how the guy managed to cram all this shit into one level, it changes themes like every 5 seconds once you're underground and there's a lot of variety to it. Too bad it's pretty much completely linear and is quite ugly in general.

I downloaded the mission without checking who the author was or what else he had made and literally the whole time I was thinking "the guy who made Augustine's Revenge made this" and sure enough after I finished it I was correct when I checked.

It has all of his hallmarks: huge expansive level with mazelike elements to it but is ultimately completely linear, hidden switches for required progression, a metric fuckton of loot that pretty much completely devalues how it feels to pick loot up (less is more!), but it was a bit of an adventure at least.

I did find out that with nuMantle you can pretty much break the forced linearity of the map by skipping Nigel's house & Nigel's cave by mantling into the window of the guard tower and blackjacking the guard as you climb up, then opening the city gates. You can do this sort of shit on a lot of older missions but afaik this one is from 2013 and NewDark was out by this point. Vid related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFKqYxfWZjI

>> No.4409623

Wish there was some Thief streamer that focused on showing the game "correctly".

Dark shadows, loud sounds, occasional commentary unlike constant talking.

>> No.4410440

As much as I enjoyed Arx, Dishonored, and Prey Arkane just needs to fuck off trying to "recreate" old LGS games. They're a good team of developers who could probably make some great original games if they weren't trying to be LGS 2.0.

>> No.4410501
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>> No.4410506
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>> No.4410509
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>> No.4410745

They cant anymore, Raphael left Arkane and lets be fair they want to be triple A like Bioshock.

>> No.4411152
File: 2 KB, 328x34, af7e0cb1cc8d39e27f03bd9085941472.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Fan missions where the frobbing/grabbing/pickup distance is halved
Is this a real script or is my game bugged?

>> No.4411192

It's a simple property applied to objects in DromEd.

>> No.4411204
File: 197 KB, 1920x2160, dump001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Wow. Well apparently in this FM it's applied on everything from chests to boxes to readables, so far.

This honestly just makes the game so much less fun. You have to be in lockpick range of doors/chests to even frob them, and if a papyrus is on a table with a chair in front of it you have to hug the chair and lean over it to pick it up, instead of just grabbing it like usual.

>> No.4411207

That pic is the furthest distances from the chests you can frob them by the way, I used Rocksbourg 2 as an example because I just remembered it had a chest right at the start of it but I'm pretty sure that's the same as every other OM & FM.

>> No.4411278

I just replayed Conspiracies in the Dark and it's not as big of a problem as you're making it sound. It does get a little annoying for readables, but since the FM relies a lot on hidden clues and secrets, I understand why the author did it. I assume he didn't want you to skip ahead too easily in the story by finding hidden secrets and such while frobbing wildly.

also, the Rocksbourg 2 example looks weirdly far away to me, though I can believe that's the default.

>> No.4411316

Can't help but disagree, it really is that bad and a terrible design decision by the author. Nobody runs around hitting their use key 24/7 and accidentally frobbing things, that's just not a thing that ever happens and it's a really frail excuse for having all the objects in the map act this way.

Doing this also definitely doesn't make pixel hunting any harder (not that it needs to be, I don't know why anyone would want to achieve that), it just makes it more time consuming. You look with your eyes and you frob with your hands. Gluing your face to the walls so you can see when something highlights is definitely not more immersive or more fun. Gameplay mechanics should always service the element of fun, not tedium.

You're also required to find all the secrets for Expert, so this is your main avenue of completing the mission, frobbing away at everything in sight. What an awful way to artificially increase the time spent finding said secrets.

Fucking with the main gameplay mechanics of Thief in FMs is a sin to me. This is basically just the dark engine version of Thi4f's "spend an extra half-second whenever you frob something", it just trades out the fully animated part for "get closer to the chair, crouch down and then frob the book to read it".

>> No.4411341

Is there any reason to sneak while you're crouching Thief 3? Unless my audio is glitched or something you're already not many any sound while crouching anyway.

>> No.4411445

Crouching makes you 100% silent no matter the surface.

>> No.4411450

Good to know Garrett finally invested in some new shoes.

>> No.4411462

Too hard for analog sticks to creep-step across marble and metal.

>> No.4411498

They could've used a trigger toggle for slow walking, so you hold left trigger while pushing up to walk on loud surfaces. Easy workarounds.

>> No.4411650

Garrett's heavy leather shoes in T1 are because he is a D&D thief who plunders tombs full of traps, caverns full of sharp rocks and places full of lava. If he wore some cloth footwraps to the lost city he'd get his feet burned off even being on the hot earth near the lava.

>> No.4411810

He could always wear different shoes according to where he's planning to go next, you know.

>> No.4411924

What? TWO pair of shoes? You sound exactly like a kind of taffer that Garret would rob.

>> No.4411936

The entire movement speed and consequently footstep volume system in Splinter Cell is controlled with the analog stick. Those "3rd person console stealth game players" that TDS tried to market to are perfectly capable of sneaking using console controls.

>> No.4411969

>implying he can afford that when he has his rent to worry about

>> No.4411998

All those arrows he buys must be part of a compulsive bad habit

>> No.4412010

>mfw Greates thief of them all only tries to support his crippling addiction to consumerism

>> No.4412013


>> No.4412092 [SPOILER] 
File: 21 KB, 480x360, 1511271308035.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

don't open this image

>> No.4412217 [SPOILER] 
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>> No.4412438


Sometimes I think that if LGS survived to this day they would probably be very close to what Arkane does.

There are a ton of modern mechanics in gaming that seem wise but are just garbage, I wonder if today they would give player no quest objective direction or make an unreliable map.

>> No.4412827
File: 119 KB, 1920x1080, music of sibel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How does skacky do it bros, everything he makes in the dark engine looks amazing, even this fucking tiny map he made for some 48 hour contest.

>> No.4412840

Fuck that mission, the wood ledge to get in through that window is invisible. I also noticed this weird thing where if you picked up the flowers by the 2nd floor bedroom and tossed them out the window, they'll teleport away into the distance before falling.

>> No.4412853

Hah, true. The spot for the rope arrow was pretty hard to see. He should have made the wood poke out like a windowsill instead of just having it border the window.

>> No.4413015


oh gee I wonder who could be behind this post

>> No.4413039

I'm not skacky I'm just a chodegobbling fanboy desu

>> No.4413164

>when the fan mission changes the names of the difficulty levels

>> No.4413756

That's an oddly specific pet peeve.

>> No.4414468
File: 1.94 MB, 1919x742, 01-short.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Is this seriously the art style they are going for with Underworld?

Is Neurath right in the head?

>> No.4414471

What would be the best modern engine to use in a hypothetical TRUE sequel to Thief 1 and 2?

>> No.4414516



>> No.4414526

Something simple with no need for big fucking textures. I really appreciate what some japanese devs do with Western engines, like Capcom.

I say a modified ID or Unreal Engine, with simple but artistically pleasing textures, both have support for big maps.

I dont know I am not an expert, but its what I see.

>> No.4414567

Doom 3 was actually a bad engine choice in hindsight. It seemed great at the time because of the emphasis on lighting and shadows (and in realtime! Perfect for Thief!) but the team is still fighting performance issues with open areas and it has never handled multiple light sources well. Damn impressive what they've accomplished though.

>> No.4414570

Yeah its damn impressive, and only a community with the love Thief has could do it.
But in hindsight its the wrong engine.

>> No.4414576

My expectations for Underworld are so low they might actually surprise me with a great game.

But I doubt it.

>> No.4414579

Did you play the alpha? I didnt, in the forums they seem to be in crunching time and say the game is coming late 2018 but I dont think they are changing from Unity or even slightly altering the art style. you would think people from LGS would understand better what made Thief and SS such beautiful games.

>> No.4414586

I didn't even know they released playable alpha version. I'm only judging it based of what I've seen in the gameplay videos and screenshots. The amateurish artstyle makes me worry about System Shock 3 tho.

>> No.4414673

The Living City is next, right?

>> No.4414684

What about 'The Docks'?

>> No.4414725

Right, it went unnoticed for some reason. I should stop cross-checking between taffersparadise and thiefmissions, things get only more confusing from now on.
For example the Circle of Strain campaign was uploaded in 2014 while the first mission is from 1999, I think.

>> No.4414748

>still fighting performance issues with open areas and it has never handled multiple light sources well.

You can work around the limitations quite easily and make pretty much anything that could be done with the dark engine. It just seems that most of the mission authors for the dark mod put more emphasis on cheesy """"cinematic"""" stories than level design.

>> No.4415402
File: 178 KB, 1920x1080, Golden Book Mission 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>When you've spent 50 minutes in a map and cleared every single accessible room, found a bunch of pixel hunt switches that lead nowhere, knocked out every single guard and backtracked all over everything multiple times and you haven't cleared a single objective

>> No.4415498

Ok so... I just went through the entire first mission with a walkthrough on my second monitor - it's basically impossible to beat without a guide. It's one of the most cryptic and autistic pixel hunting hidden switches nonsencial level design piece of shit ever. As in, if you put down the guide for one second you will get stuck and have to check the guide again.

There are switches and keys hidden that you literally CANNOT see with your eyes and just have to right click things to find them. There are also a lot of areas that it's impossible to progress through without alerting multiple guards or servants.

There is also an area with multiple points of no return that require a key from the previous area to finish the mission: Once you get to a big temple on Expert a bunch of the doors close behind you. You need a key off the Ice Keeper in there but I didn't realize he had a key (it's one of those grey ones that are a bit hard to see, and his clothes are grey/blue) that and I somehow glossed over it in the walkthrough. You also can't knock this guy out as far as I know and have to kill him with a fire arrow or something. Anyway, I went through this area only barely seeing him and actually avoiding him and then I exited through the waterways below. You can't get back up to this area after falling down to the water. You need his key to exit the mission even if you have all objectives cleared. You can't get back in the way you originally came by looping the whole map because all the doors closed behind you.

So you have to reload an older save to grab the key to finish the mission. You can just softlock fuck yourself by continuing without the key.

I have a save at the start of mission 2 now but I don't know if I can bring myself to even play it. The first mission is literally unplayable without a guide and I don't know if I want to read another guide to finish this one so I might just drop it.

>> No.4415539

Finally got to play the Shalebridge Cradle and glad it managed to live up to the hype everyone gave it. I thought it going to be a standard level except with some spooky shit, but obviously it turned out to be even more than that. Sucks that almost every other level in Thief 3 isn't as memorable as the Cradle is.

>> No.4415645

The Russians have a very... different mindset when it comes to Thief design compared to other people. Most if not all Russian FMs are insanely hard for no reason.

Mission 1 is by far the worst. Mission 2 is in my opinion the most interesting of the bunch and perhaps the easiest, even if it looks pretty restrictive when you see the objective screen. It has a few really neat ideas. Mission 3 is a city mission with an interesting layout but it has a lot of gating and obscure stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising this campaign, it's still bullshit hard and almost impossible to complete without a walkthrough, but the two followup missions are much better.

>> No.4415669

Mission 1 reminded me of a lot of the frustrations I had with the awful Shadow of Doubt campaign. I was just not enjoying myself at all thanks to all the cryptic bullshit and forced linearity through keyhunting.

I'll go try Mission 2 now and maybe even try to finish this shit but I don't know.

>> No.4415778

My dream would be an engine that focuses on lightning and lightning effects, like the xrEngine from the STALKER series. I don't think there should be any room for static lightning; all light should come from a physical source and everything should cast a realistic shadow, maybe even taking into account things like scatter.
As for the artstyle... I think that it should be somewhat stylized to allow using bold colors, but avoid looking plasticy like the new Underworld. I appreciate what they're trying to do with Underworld's artstyle, but I think they should've done more iteration on that.

>> No.4416042
File: 178 KB, 365x339, 1508048342914.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.4416076

What if I actually really like Soulforge?

>> No.4416081

Just finished rocksbourg 3 for the first time, after having had a miserable time with the first 2 missions. This shit takes annoying fetch quests to a whole new level. I can't believe how anyone could seriously recommend it let alone consider it one of the best fms out there.

>> No.4416082

then explain why you do like it.

>> No.4416090

I love the size and the overall difficulty and challenge, which stay fair and balanced unlike Kidnap for example (though the turret room is a bit dickish).

>> No.4416112

I like it because it's a test of all the skills you've accumulated until that point. It's got human enemies as well as robotic enemies of different strength levels. It's got environmental hazards and climbing puzzles. It has alarm systems that summon reinforcements. You collect things but it isn't loot because of the urgency of the situation. You get plenty of resources to use but you'll never just take out every enemy with what you have, so you have to prioritize. I also like the concept of constructing the things you need. The way it's done is the immersive sim equivalent of crafting. Not just clicking through menus.

It has its problems. The mission starts with you in plain view of a watcher, although it's only a yellow alert, and in a room that was just previously a battlefield between bots and Viktoria so an alert would not matter anyway. That leads to the next problem. More bots enter that area and become permanently alerted if they see the robot corpses that everyone already knows are there. I'm also not fond of the concept of having to turn off the lights so a room is totally pitch black so you can sneak through, and without doing that it's impossible to sneak through. The solution should not be one of the extremes.

>> No.4416127

>You get plenty of resources to use but you'll never just take out every enemy with what you have, so you have to prioritize.

This doesn't happen to me. I get annoyed at the poorly thought out gameplay and resort to abusing the ai and have the bots blow themselves up against a corner trying to shoot me because at least I will have an easier time backtracking through those boring ass corridors, which is what this retarded mission is all about. Eventually I get bored and quit; it's not challenging in a good way, it's just fucking tedious.

>> No.4416158

Pixel hunting, autistic luck-based progression, tiny switches, keyhunting, corpse/unconscious body fetch quests, shitloads of retracing your steps, buggy AI.

Rocksbourg is a lot of style over substance. People like it for the atmosphere/horror stuff but ttlg unironically have some fucking awful taste when it comes to Thief FMs and recommendations and a bit of that gets carried over to other Thief communities (RPGCodex & here namely).

You can look at the ttlg thread for any FM you think is obtuse or requires scouring every pixel for a hidden switch or key to proceed and all of the responses will be turdmunchers praising every aspect of the map despite its obvious glaring flaws. This means that these authors rarely seem to ever learn to improve on these aspects, even FMs which have playtesters just seem to be a Yes-man crew tied up with the atmosphere or graphical quality of the mission and don't like to call something objectively bad gameplay-wise.

Rocksbourg as a series is ok at best. 3 is the best because it requires the least reading of a walkthrough, 2 is still a pixel hunt and it has the best variety/areas to explore out of the three but 1 is completely unplayable without a walkthrough. The reliance on using a walkthrough that Rocksbourg requires basically kills it. Style over substance, "it's pretty!" instead of good gameplay.

When I think of fan missions that I would recommend to someone coming from the OMs, Rocksbourg is seriously almost at the bottom of the list.

>> No.4416172

>People like it for the atmosphere/horror stuff but ttlg unironically have some fucking awful taste when it comes to Thief FMs
Also if you need any further proof of this aside from any bad FM thread just remember/go look at the Thi4f apologist threads from when Thi4f released. The ttlg turdmunchers went out of their way to not become NoMutantsAllowed v2 (the guys who hated Fallout 3 because of how shit it was compared to 1 & 2 when it came out) by defending Thi4f and the Thi4f devs despite how bad the game was.

>> No.4416202


Yeah, ttlg has always been a retarded circle jerk community where the local celebrities can push out some random turd and everyone will praise and go nuts over it, while actual good missions get glossed over and quickly forgotten. For a while the codex seemed to be different, but in the last couple of years it's pretty much turned into ttlg lite with few exceptions.

>> No.4416221
File: 545 KB, 1476x888, dump000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Heyho Taffers,
Can someone please tell me what this art is called, or where I can find a higher resolution?
(FM is Shadow Politics for T1 btw)

>> No.4416230

If you got a proper head-on image of it or pulled the texture for it out of the files you might be able to reverse image search it.

Kinda looks like Everquest desu but that could go for tons of shit seeing as it's pretty generic fantasy.

>> No.4416272

>When I think of fan missions that I would recommend to someone coming from the OMs, Rocksbourg is seriously almost at the bottom of the list.
Speaking of that, I've seen some bad recommendations for newcomers in most of TTLG's 'new to FMs' thread. Most of the time, it's usually just the big names such as Ominous Bequest, Rocksbourg, etc. The worst part is, most of those recommended missions are a massive departure from classic Thief.

>> No.4416275

Just get some of the infinitely respawning water arrows, then you don't have to exploit the AI

>> No.4416294


but ominous bequest is actually good, maybe a little puzzle oriented but never takes it too far

>> No.4416318

Yeah and that's the problem. Those ttlg turdmunchers who recommend those super complex pixel hunt puzzler FMs to newbies are people that have been conditioned by almost 2 decades of mediocre poorly designed FMs so every time one comes along that shows something pretty, large and occupies their time for an above average length through forcing key/switch hunting on the player it gets lauded as the perfect game.

Newbies aren't interested in that shit. Newbies need direction that isn't a papyrus hidden in the corner of some closet behind 4 boxes with some cryptic fucking clue on it that won't make any sense to them regarding some completely hidden tiny switch.

FM designers mostly just create missions for masochists, not for people interested in playing Thief. Most people play Thief to sneak around, use the gadgets, bonk people on the head with a blackjack and pile all the bodies in some dark corner. Not to backtrack over their steps five times in the space of an hour looking at every door frame, light fixture, piece of furniture or othehrwise for a tiny switch that is required to progress through the level. How autistic does a mission author need to be to think "well I can see this in dromed and know it's there so surely it'll be easy to find for a player". It's like those Super Metroid romhacks that the SM autist community praises because you need to be able to hit a mockball or a cwj every 5 minutes to progress.

When you cram as many puzzles into a mission as Ominous Bequest does it just comes down to basic probability that at least 1 of them will stump the average player and have them seek tips/guides. OB at least has clues for its puzzles though, which is more than can be said for most autismfest missions. OB is objectively on the more obtuse side of FMs.

>> No.4416336

People need to take a step back and think objectively about the OMs. Which of them felt mega frustrating to you on your first playthrough and stand out with that FM-level of quality.

One that really comes to mind in Thief 1 is obviously the Thieves' Guild. It's the first mission where you're forced to pixel hunt around (silver bracelet in the firepit hurr durr) and slash banners (to find the sapphire vase), without either of these things being hinted at (IIRC) and it suffers for it.

On my first playthrough I spent 3 hours running around the mazelike tunnels of the map utterly frustrated that I couldn't find the objectives through the trail of sleeping bodies. As a result people do not remember the map fondly, yet it's by far the closest one to the average autistic fan mission gameplay-wise. If you remove the good graphics/atmosphere/sound from Rocksbourg 1 it becomes a far worse version of the Thieves' Guild, requiring multiple poorly-hinted-at pixel hunts to find keys that are required to progress.

In Thieves' Guild's defense, it is obviously very unfinished and probably did not see a lot of playtesting time compared to the rest of the missions, they just threw it in there with the rest of Thief Gold as a means to flesh out the downwinders/underground side of The City's lore as the story elements in it were previously hinted at in Bafford's and Assassins. But for these fucking fan missions that have multiple years long development cycles spent on making something look pretty it's retarded that they are allowed to get away with such dogshit gameplay.

I also recall some frustrations on my first playthrough with Undercover's switch hunting but I remember the order and locations were at least properly clued to you.

Thief 2 is another story, I could go on about Casing the Joint for ages but it's obvious Thief 2 overall is just an unfinished mess that LGS wished they could have fixed up with Thief 2 Gold. Rest in peace.

>> No.4416340

That's an original artwork by Mark Lizotte.

Take a xanax or something dude.

>> No.4416365


Not even the bracelet in thieves guild was as fucking retarded as those two keys you are supposed to find in rockbourg like that one hidden underwater, or that other one that is literally out of sight and you can just get it by blindly frobbing at a pile of debris. And even then, thieves guild was slammed by players and is usually considered to be one of the worst missions in the series; rocksbourg on the other hand, gets away with doing the same shit as thieves guild and is still being praised to this day for some reason.

>> No.4416451
File: 72 KB, 604x471, LizotteReincarnation1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

thanks. seems like it is called "Reincarnation"?
Could not find any higher than this, though.
Would love to have somthing like this hanging in my floor.

>> No.4416523

>bad recommendations for newcomers
Read above. Ominous Bequest is an okay mission on it's own, but newcomers are going to have a bad time with it on a first run through. It's like one of those missions you have to play over and over again to get good at.

>> No.4416595

worst part is thieves guild was actually a thief gold addition and the game is a bit worse for it

at least the banner thing is somewhat hinted at, i believe you find a note that goes "donal wants me to stay out of the banner room what's wrong with him" or something like that

>> No.4416601

German taffer detected.

>> No.4416606

Yeah, who would have thought stealing from professional thieves was harder than stealing from nobles who flaunt their wealth?
I mean, it's almost as if that loot was hidden to deter other thieves, what awful design.

>> No.4416635

it's a pretty shitty, labyrinthine level for such an early level

>> No.4416691

Always found that painting out of place, but the one with the Trickster fuelled my nightmares.

I understood pretty soon I would rather deal with the zealots of civilisation than fucking Satan.

>> No.4416721

don't call me dude, are you some teenager or something?

>> No.4416725

dude c'est ton pere

>> No.4416813

I have a really good sense of direction and for every mission in the Thief games I could draw you a pretty good map from memory alone even though I haven't played the original missions in a few months, and yet even after spending hours in Thieves' Guild and replaying it a few times I still can't find my way for shit.
Stop blaming the players for shitty level design.

>> No.4416926


The layout isn't that complicated. It's just that everything has that samey look to it and there's a lack of landmarks. But using the compass and the map, I really never had any problems finding my way around.

>> No.4416934

the map is beyond useless

i pretty much used the compass only

>> No.4417207

Just finished Thief 3 and I honestly don't see why people hated this game so much. Only major complaint I can find are the janky controls which I bet was the result of designing a first and third person mode which I never used. Sucks that we'll never get a true Thief 4 where you play as the little girl and Garrett is in a teacher/dad kind of role.

>> No.4417215

i mean if you really want the "thief as girl" experience i guess you could play thief 2x

>> No.4417278

>the map is beyond useless
It's not, the outline is very accurate.

>> No.4417309

Nobody hates it, its just noticeably consolized and hampered by it.

>> No.4417323

>janky controls and fucking terrible physics, can get glitched inside of the floor with ease just by jumping around
>blackjack feels unresponsive and clunky to use
>maps are tiny with 5 minute loading screens everywhere even on modern PCs because of the terrible engine
>more importantly, maps are flat and have little to no verticality to them, rope arrows are absent for the much more gamey/restrictive climbing gloves
>Garrett drowns when he touches a puddle after being an olympic swimmer in the first 2 games
>Keeper Assassins are fucking stupid and make no sense
>gameplay is completely brought down by the fact that it's designed for third-person instead of first-person
>Garrett can maintain rep with the Hammers & Pagans at the same time by doing menial oddjobs for them after stealing their precious artifacts
>crouching makes you totally silent
>Expert mode lets you kill guards
>Garrett now carries a dagger because he's now an assassin-type instead of a D&D thief who raids dungeons with his sword
>did I mention the terrible engine the game runs on
>superficial complaint but it's literally called Thief Deadly Shadows instead of Thief III because they wanted to market it as a standalone game for the Xbox crowd to not turn them off by showing them it's the third in the series, just further drives home that their loyalty was to the Xbox kiddies instead of actual fans of the series
>even after all this garbage it's still literally 20x better than Thi4f
Thanks Xbox and the 11 year olds that played it.

If TDS was designed for the dark engine on PCs it would be an infinitely better game with way more gameplay possibilities.

>> No.4417328


It was the worst time in the transition of consoles. Pc gaming was flat.

If Thief 3 were made today by a hypothetical Ion Storm today it would be a good game with a decent engine, since modern consoles at least have more RAM.

>> No.4417336

Reminds me. I tweeted Otherside Entertainment a couple months ago asking for them to get the Thief IP and make Thief 4 saying I've been waiting for Thief 4 for over a decade and they liked it on twitter, but then a few days later the twitter like was gone.

I don't know if that could be something they have in mind or if they just retracted the like because it's industry bad manners to like something that is snarkily shitting on Thi4f.

>> No.4417342

I dont know what to feel about Otherside honestly.
I mean yeah its Neurath but its not the entire LGS crew.

I would like to know what they think of that abomination.

Also the Underwold Ascendant art style is puke inducing, I dont know what are they thinking.

>> No.4417358

They have Terri Brosius & Stephen Russell (at least for Underworld) as well, right? Terri was lead writer on TDS and assisted in writing T2 (as well as obviously being one of their main voice actors).

>> No.4417375

They also have Chris Siegel, Steve Pearsall, Tim Stellmach and obviously Warren Spector. All LGS.

I at least have a little bit of faith.

>> No.4417737

It has quite a few issues, which are described in this thread. However I thought the story was great, and really neat that the keepers were there own greatest enemy in the end.

Thief 4 would have been good like you said if it was a continuation where Garrett is sort of an old father figure and the young girl needs to take over. They could've done a semi-reset without doing the awkward Garrett/not Garrett reboot crap that didn't click. To be honest there isn't much of a story to tell after TDS because all the power is balanced after the trilogy, it's hard to conceive of a story.

>> No.4417747

A while ago they replied "What Thief 4?" to a question about it and very politely shat on it on a long-past live stream.
I can see where they're trying to go with the art style, they just aren't pulling it off. Although, the last set of screens I remember seeing looked fine enough for a low budget game to me so maybe they'll get it sorted out. The much bigger red flag to me is that this game has been in dev for a while now, and they seem to have been making very slow progress the whole way through. For ages updates have felt like treading water, they seem resistant to go into detail about the workings of major systems (eg stealth). Basically I don't think they know what they're doing.

But whatever, this is a Thief thread.

I don't like to place faith in a project based on who's working on it. Plenty of projects with the right people have failed, and I tend to think games are the result of time and circumstance as much as the minds of their devs.

>> No.4418197

>Basically I don't think they know what they're doing.
Have you ever seen Warren Spector talk immersive sims? He mentions that an immersive sim can only really come together near the end of the project. Immersive sims are games about various systems interacting with each other, so until you have a lot of those systems in place you can't have a game.

>> No.4418213

>But whatever, this is a Thief thread.

Its very relevant, Otherside success with this and SS3 might make them make a dedicated stealth game in the future in the line of Thief.

>> No.4418241

I've heard the stories about how Thief only clicked together right at the end of development, and I know software development can be unpredictable so I have given them a lot of benefit of the doubt. It's just that for so long, each update has been the same routine of retreading old ground and giving the bare minimum new information possible (despite the fact that they're apparently so busy they can't even release updates on schedule) that makes me very concerned.

Not /vr/, anyway. But here I am talking again so what do I know.

>> No.4418368

Just to be a bit more optimist, at least that faggot who went to work at Bethesda is not there.

And I do like Neurath. I just hope they can pull it off.

>> No.4418396
File: 1.40 MB, 1920x1080, dump004.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What are some interesting FMs you've never seen mentioned on 4chan?
pic related is Right Up There in the Mountains, and Evil Dead themed mission.

I was optimistic about it but they haven't given me a reason to be in some time now. And I also still like all of the names I recognize there. Even if UWA ends up being awful they still contributed to the best games of all time, that doesn't get erased.

>> No.4418489

I don't think I've ever seen The Lost Crusade mentioned. A nice T1 mansion mission.

>> No.4418608


It's perfect. The perfect fan mission.

>> No.4418694

Welp, I'm dropping this one. After checking the ttlg thread it turns out the scripting is super fucking buggy and broken. I have like 10 different saves from before and after the first(?) scripted event where the camera is meant to shoot up into the air over someone's house and show the guy walking back inside and opening the door, for you to go in and buy the key to the other part of town from him for 500 gold.

The problem is, every time this cutscene is triggered and Garrett takes the form of the camera, it shoots me into the corner of the house that the cutscene triggered in rather than anywhere else. After waiting out the duration of the cutscene I check every door in town that I haven't checked already and they are all still locked and closed. I've tried this like 3 or 4 times now on different save files and nothing changes.

I also found who I assume to be the guy I'm meant to buy the key off of, and the possible reason that he can't make it to his own scripted cutscene to open his house - he's in the river under a bridge, probably fell off during his patrol/route to the cutscene or something. He's not drowning, he's just standing there underwater nonhostile.

I cannot be bothered to restart it just to find out if it works or not on a second go. I've spent like an hour on this dumb shit already.

So yeah, buggy broken ass russian fan mission that is basically unfinishable (as if the dumb gameplay switch/keyhunting wasn't bad enough, the custom scripting the guy used doesn't work at all).

>> No.4418718

>ever playing russian fms

>> No.4419312

>playing anything not made by white cis straight male Americans

>> No.4419431

>playing anything not made by autistic frenchies

>> No.4419437

>playing anything made by those who dropped out of school before learning the use of an international language

Let the Russians who only know Russian and French who only know French go extinct. And no, English is not my first language either

>> No.4419456 [SPOILER] 
File: 91 KB, 1920x1080, 1511611144482.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Just finished Death's Cold Embrace all in one night, it was really good and even though the story was sappy as fuck it worked quite well for what it was. Obviously it suffers from heavy map re-use that a lot of people have criticized it for already but it did some interesting things with it at least and didn't have you running the same content in the city one over and over (opens up new areas, closes others off). The second visit to the mansion was a bit meh though.

Actual spoilers ahead (also pic):

Really liked the cyborg midwife subplot, I knew immediately when I was reading the notes in the inventor's house that it was a CM in the basement, too bad it uses the shitty SS2 HD pack model instead of the original one which is way scarier. I liked the ending for it a lot where you find out that the head guard of the mansion actually killed the inventor and she was just trying to revive him the whole time (starting with rigging him up to the electrics to try and shock him back to life, then having a scrap of the necromancy book on her at the end, which is why she kidnapped the head guard hoping to do the ritual to bring the inventor back with him as the sacrifice). Or at least that's how I understood it all, it was really quite good uncovering it bit by bit though. To me this kinda stole the show from the usual romeo and juliet love story.

>> No.4419581


Some mission called 'Five Nights at Dayport' came out. Just looking at the title already gives me low expectations.

>> No.4419674


What do they think Dayport is? A pizza parlor? ...And 5 nights in Dayport sounds like some rich penthouse high-roller's spice binge.

I'd rather have Fear and Loathing in Dayport.

>> No.4419683


I think the title is a reference to that game five nights at freddy's, and the gameplay is based around that game's shtick

>> No.4419738

I know, it's just wrong to say "at Dayport" when it's a city district. It's like saying that sushi was invented "at Japan"

>> No.4420041
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>> No.4420073
File: 2.58 MB, 267x200, 1453222855937.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This is not what I was expecting when I opened this thread.

>> No.4420341

What FM should I play tonight?

>> No.4420373



>> No.4420375

Did we ever meet npcs with lanterns? Some of them in this FM have an interesting behavior, especially the ones in the inn. If attacked they go after you like guards, unable to attack back. When the barrel guy dies the ale reappears mid-air where it was before.
While the previous mission impressed me on a style standpoint, this one really played its cards right with the succession of different situations to solve. The level changes fast, solve a part of it and there's a different challenge right after that, right until the end. For the same reason it's linear but at least you can open two shortcuts to connect parts of the mission and backtrack faster. It's hard to leave something important behind, but for a moment I thought this one was gonna be the birth of the dreaded keyhunt kind of FM (Koobze probably deserves that title), with the lockup inacessible until the end and half of the required loot being in there baiting that thought. The more you progress, the more tools are given to you to go on. It's good linearity.
Having all that loot in a single place maybe it's not good design, but it's always satisfying to grab it all. Spooky rooms always make me happy and this time Ramirez has a role in the whole shady deal. The warehouse-industrial theme is well conveyed, and again it's thanks to detail like rails, cages, pipes and offices. Even with a bugbeast in it the mission manages to keep the coherence intact.
Featuring an actual boat granted the mission a climax. It's a shame that the only way to board is noisy and well lit, having a different escape route at least made up for it.
The lantern guy makes a round at first and then just stops on the dock, looking at the sea, for the rest of the mission. He's probably grabbing a drink before going back to his duty.
Maps are getting common (briefings are still rare and it's not gonna change soon) and I wonder if it's the first case of a guard increment based on the difficulty.

Real taffers always pick the apple.

>> No.4420406

A Servants Life

>> No.4420479

I could go without playing either of those ever.
New question: which good FM should I play tonight?

>> No.4420828

Are you looking for anything specific?

>> No.4420837

Any mission that isn't overtly terrible.

>> No.4420897

The Blue Star is a pretty cool medium-sized museum mission. Not too difficult and I can't recall anything bad about it.

>> No.4420926
File: 1.29 MB, 1269x1122, 1453446274774.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

posting another one

>> No.4421153

Which faction is the worst and why is it the Pagans?

>> No.4421168

Because their entire ethos is based around doing whatever causes the most damage to the most people so long as those people aren't other Pagans. And even then...
They are not master anti-civilization agents, they're just assholes.

>> No.4421491

>you will never again be a teenager with no responsibilities and have loads of free time to play Thief games and FMs in your bedroom, breaking only to refill your soda and read forum threads about Garret's personality and that 50 loot you couldn't find and you go to bed imagining the FM you want to make and you only end up making a basic room with a guard in it but it doesn't matter because you still feel immensely happy about being part of the community

>> No.4421583

Just be a 23 year old NEET piece of shit like me, I'm still doing that every day.

>> No.4421754

fuck, I'm stuck on the first mission on DCE. it feels like I've explored every corner, yet I'm 1100 gold short.

why do so many FMs have such ridiculous gold quotas?

>> No.4421825
File: 98 KB, 529x529, disappointed cosby.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>after walking back and forth for anpther 40 minutes, I finally found davidov's key
>see light in the end of the tunnel as I return to the chest it goes to, finally I'll get some big loot stash and finish the mission
>it's just some useless bonus item
fuck, this is just insulting

>> No.4421828

Did you loot the jeweler's place yet?

>> No.4421835

I can't find the key to his safe. I couldn't find the key to the artist's wooden box either, or get into his basement. on top of that, I can't find how to get into the clothing store, but I hear footsteps from it, so I guess I'm supposed to get into it.

>> No.4421850

Check the rooftops.

>> No.4421860

Jeweler: I assume you're talking about the safe by his bed. Take a closer look at the front counter on the ground floor.
Clothing store: Pretty sure you can enter through a 2nd floor window.

>> No.4421882

This is the longest running Thief thread I've seen in a year.

>> No.4421887

okay, thanks. looting the clothing store left me with exactly 7020 gold, so I'm good to go.

>> No.4421948

Counting the previous ones that hit the bump limit? Yeah, I'm pretty surprised by how long it's staying alive. Probably because enough people got interested in playing the FMs and regularly post about them.

>> No.4422165

Loot objectives shouldn't make things harder than they already are imo. They should make you play carefully and explore instead of rushing to the main objective but that's it. Loot is a good way to measure a sort of score and how well you know the level (and having more gold to spend for items was a good reason to look for it in the OMs). I suppose most author see it as a way to further increase a challenge that it's either absent or already high enough.
It's funny how often I'm punished with endless backtracking for missing secrets while loot used to be one of the first things I secured before going for the rest of the objective list, with more gold in my pockets and less stuff to worry about.

>> No.4422193
File: 866 KB, 1366x768, benny.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

the real benny would never lock someone into a freezer

>> No.4422301

team-up mission with Benny when?

>> No.4422307
File: 961 KB, 2700x2400, 1468461410593.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

So we're all of one mind that Karras is /ourguy/ in the Thief universe, correct?

>> No.4422314
File: 17 KB, 237x234, 1455502217930.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

False, it's Brother Murus.

>> No.4422405

If only people would talk more about modding.

>> No.4422487

What do you want to know?

>> No.4422539
File: 19 KB, 912x364, 1497912061481.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

1. >>4396279 and >>4404695
2. I tried to open Thief Objective Wizard (v1.02) and I got this. richt32.ocx should not be outdated. Should I meddle with system32? How to solve it?
Is Goalmaster configured correctly (I must admit I haven't touched Dromed in a while, so I check that out tomorrow)?

>> No.4422585

Just played Death's Turbid Veil, it felt a bit hamfisted with the fetch questing for the mask ritual and all that shit but the mines being pitch black while you have a lantern that lights you up like a christmas tree and only like 2 meters in front of you when the place is crawling with (scarier-looking than usual) fast moving invulnerable zombies is a very effective way to spook the player (for me at least).

But yeah, once the major discovery/horror arc of the mission was over on Expert it was just me running around an empty mansion for 20 minutes (there are like 50 wine crates in the mission and arbitrarily the wine you need for the chalk circle is hidden near a pile of them in one of the towers on the window ledge) looking for the ingredients for the chalk circle so I could tick off the last objective. Just felt like it overstayed its welcome (still nowhere near as bad as some of the autismfests you regularly encounter in FMs).

The actual main content of the mission is very good though. Should be noted that the performance was total shit when I was in the courtyard looking towards the center of the map even on my modern gaming PC though.

>> No.4422587

Editing mesh skins is pretty easy with color manipulation. I usually edit them using several skins as layers and paint on them.

GoalMaster is a more up to date version of TOW and will work just fine on modern systems. You should use it instead.

>> No.4422641

i know how: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLUw8NSpQR8
One problem is that the colour doesn't look quite right? Cobalt? And you have to take in account these skins will be seen in shadow. I tried switching Garretts armband with the Thief one (>>4400625) but it's too short.
I'm not asking you what program to use. I'm asking you how to get these programs to work, whether or not they are outdated.

>> No.4423532

I hope this info sheet gets updated regularly.

>> No.4423625

It doesn't. That one is even older than the other one and has similar problems. Though I've been thinking or making my own one with some more objective criticism of some of the more shitty aspects of missions like Rocksbourg at least mentioned on the sheet.

t. Have played almost every mission mentioned on both sheets over the course of a few months.

>> No.4423680

Those FM lists are the tip of the iceberg. How much more worth is your 'objective criticism' anyway. Perhaps create categories for players that are interested in certain types of FMs?

>> No.4423689

Basically. Detailing difficulty levels from "You've finished the OMs and want something similar" all the way up to "You're an autistic fuck that enjoys spending 10 minutes in each room of the FM clicking nondescript pixels". So we're not just throwing people new to FMs at fucking Rocksbourg because it looks pretty.

>> No.4423715

What can be said about Thief 1, and to an extent about Thief 2, is that you take on many roles that fall under the concept 'thief': a burglar, a grave robber, a tomb raider and a spy. I believe you said before that these FM lists had a bias towards city missions (Burglar), so what if you select a couple of FM's that complement other roles of a thief? Instead of listing the pros and cons of each FM yourself, ask the (new) player a couple of questions. Did you have a sense of mystery? Did you like the puzzles? Do you like the portrayal of The City? To get the conversation starting. Also, what about the FMs that are important in the history of the thief community, like Gathering at the Bar (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49748)?

>> No.4423770

Skulls of white and wearing red
Buried with no time for grief
Walking even though they're dead
Risen by their unbelief

Rusted armor, fleshless bones
Came up from unholy graves
Fueled by sins left unatoned
Your soul, it cannot be saved

Echoing in tainted air
Rattling chains, an eerie sound
Marching footsteps everywhere
Whispers command: Join us now!

Never resting, battle-torn
Rotten soul, an empty gaze
Out of evil they were born
Flames around you, only flames

>> No.4423871

I think it'd be better to make a new chart that has only missions that are actually good for a beginner to FMs (and maybe include a Dark Mod section, if applicable). It'd be hard to fit nuanced criticism for several missions into one image and I feel that people would start to take those criticisms as word of law after they get passed around long enough. Not to say I disagree with them but I think it's better kept to discussion.

>> No.4423878

Any well-known FM authors lurking here?

>> No.4423879 [SPOILER] 
File: 1.33 MB, 1920x1200, 1511788127415.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yeah check out my WIP.

>> No.4423906

who is this romain faggot

>> No.4424695
File: 42 KB, 525x394, T2pagans.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Shhh! Shhhhh! Something quiets by!

>> No.4424809

Just played Fables of the Penitent Thief, very fun stuff and an extremely original idea as far as FMs go (though soaked in medieval fairy tale cliches). Love the art style and sounds too. Really could stand on its own as a game if it was part of a larger campaign.

>> No.4425020

I didn't notice your post until now. I'll try to play it tomorrow or the day after.

>> No.4425457


>> No.4425929

da da dadadaa dadada dadaaaa

da dananananada dadaaa

>> No.4426650

I've mentioned this before but John D's missions irritate me. Their level design is fine and their autism-factor for secret levers and keys isn't very high at all but my FMSel backlog is filled with his missions because of how much wordswordswords he spews into every readable.

It would be fine if you could trust thief FMs to not have a tiny bit of vital information hidden inside of every 10 page readable but I don't want to read the entire Hammerite bible every time I right click a papyrus.

>> No.4426679
File: 12 KB, 251x242, anpe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>it's a FM-author-puts-dozens-of-irrelevant-fanfic-short-stories-in-readables episode

>> No.4426704

Any examples?

>> No.4426857

Hey guys, I just wanted to say that I started playing Thief Gold on normal difficulty and could not get into it. I played the first mission on expert and had been hooked ever since- shit is seriously good. Just got to the lost city mission. The difficulty level really made all the difference for me.

>> No.4427076

Just remember to replay one particular mission on Normal too. On that difficulty setting Down in The Bonehoard becomes a comfy scavenger hunt of lots of loot instead of a tense tomb raiding experience for a few pricey artifacts.

>> No.4427082

Is there a way to get the actual textured blackjack from T1 into T2? Was it always the slick black textureless dildo it is in T2 or is that a product of Tafferpatcher that TFix doesn't have?

>> No.4427101

What kind of texture is it supposed to have? It's a leather sack with a lead weight inside.

>> No.4427127

The blackjack in the Thief games is nothing like an actual blackjack. It's huge and held upright like a club. In-fact T3's blackjack is just a studded club, which is similar in appearance to the T1 texture for it. T2's being an upright textureless dildo makes little sense beside the other two examples.

>> No.4427161

I think the LGS blackjack is upright because having it flop would have required animation. The hand and the weapon are one single solid object, and any extra bone on a skinned mesh in 1998 was performance lost. The reason why swords are attached to NPCs. Ion Storm probably just didn't know what a blackjack is and made it into a club that makes baseball bat noises when you hit a wall with it.

>> No.4427182


A blackjack is a club. You guys are thinking of a sap.

>> No.4427196

>Was it always the slick black textureless dildo it is in T2
No, it was not. I still have my old Thief 2 CDs and it is not like that on a new install. I don't remember when I first noticed the change but I've been assuming it was something bundled with my newdark install. Can't remember if I used Tafferpatcher or not, sorry. I remember trying to disable all the upgraded graphics options, but I could have messed it up.

>> No.4427217 [DELETED] 
File: 105 KB, 1149x383, blackjack.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>A blackjack is a club
yeah, no

>> No.4427643

Disable the Enhancement Pack that comes bundled with Tafferpatcher. As a rule of thumb you should always disable everything that comes with TFix and Tafferpatcher.

>> No.4427848

Sabotage at soul forge is killing my morale to finish this game. First try I gave up because I got lost and couldn't tell if i was progressing too far or not. Second time I got fed up and realized I could finish the level faster by switching to normal mode.
Third time and I'm starting to think about watching it on youtube. Every single one of these noises are giving me a massive headache. Every single piece of machinery is grating on my ears and hot damn better pray karras doesn't open his mouth or his shitty microphone will absolutely destroy your eardrums. I can't even understand a word of what he's saying.

>> No.4427852

New guy here.
Is there a Tfix for Thief 2?

>> No.4428005

You can run T2X as a fan mission in FMSel, I think

>> No.4428006

Wait, I'm retarded, I read Thief 2X
Look up Tafferpatcher for Thief 2

>> No.4428072

Thief 2 includes a button on your keyboard that lets you adjust the volume of ambient noise.

>> No.4428123

Everything I've read seems to suggest the blackjack weapon is the same thing as a sap, except for when referring to police batons in the style of the deus ex baton which are also referred to as blackjacks. Regardless of this the T1 & T2 blackjack is clearly meant to be a type of studded club like the TDS one turned out to be and not a leather sack based on the original texture for it.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Tafferpatcher comes with a ton of shit you can disable but it seems the textureless blackjack replaces the textured one anyway. Something to do with upgrading Garrett's arms (which includes what they're attached to) from what I can gleam off of ttlg.

>> No.4428126


Don't know about Tafferpatcher (Thief 2) but with the original you can download TFix light, which only ports the game to the new engine and nothing else.

Honestly there's a bigger difference in Thief 1 patched vs unpatched that isn't visual. In Thief 1 the guard AI has been replaced with Thief 2's guard AI. This can lead to huge differences in those emergent moments Thief creates. In my opinion it's a huge mistake.

>> No.4428132

I think I'll try re-installing both and making damn sure I'm not modifying anything but newdark.

>> No.4428134

Why is it a mistake?

Isnt the AI better in Thief2?

>> No.4428536
File: 26 KB, 824x104, mrs robinson.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.4429072
File: 719 KB, 1600x900, dump018.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>i had the key to open up the safe for the regulating rounds all three playthroughs and never noticed
you know if it wasn't for me being a retard i probably would have enjoyed this level. I also got stuck in the maw because i didn't know how to destroy the gate. (the two caves next to it made me think i needed to find a secret entrance to it) overall though both games were solid and am looking forward to playing fan made levels.

>> No.4429256

>succession of different situations
>The more you progress, the more tools are given to you to go on.
Does Lord Bafford's Manor have this too?

>> No.4429351

I had a mini-dilemma with that bonus objective on expert because of the "don't kill anyone" objective on Expert. Is there a gas arrow anywhere on that particular mission you can use for that?

>> No.4429442
File: 1.01 MB, 1366x768, dce ending.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

finally finished DCE. for me, it picked up a lot during the second half. if every mission had held the same standard as the last three, it would have been a solid 9.

the graveyard mission was a turning point for me. it did have the same extreme gold quota that I complained about earlier, but here it felt like it served a purpose, since knowing the map better paid off toward the end.

the ritual was in itself a pretty standard city mission, but combined with the earlier missions set in dayport, it helped create a world that felt alive, with clear progression between the different nights. reading someone's journal on one mission, and then reading the same journal on a later mission only to find a new entry at the end, felt pretty cool.

the last mission was superb. probably one of the better looking castles I've seen, and the enemies looked really slick and pretty.

sadly, I felt that the initial missions dragged the whole campaign down. there was simply too much that the player had to do just to pass. the first mission had an absolutely ridiculous gold quota, and the second mission required you to find several tiny levers in random rooms.

the one area where the campaign excelled is the visuals. it did use some hd textures, but it was all very tasteful and minimalistic. unlike T2X, it was very consistent with its colour palette. it gave the campaign a very solid athmosphere.

>> No.4429447

sorry, it's getting late here

>> No.4429649

what is this?

>> No.4429763

New contest
If anyone's thinking about getting into FM creation, this might be a good opportunity.

>> No.4429951

Hope we get some good TG FMs from this, TG has a nice atmosphere

>> No.4430364


I found the same effect playing Crysis, as a matter of fact. A somewhat mediocre action game on earlier levels, but on Difficulty 4 it turns into an MGS style stealth and tactics game.

>> No.4430375

Crysis was a game engine far ahead of its time, only thing hampering it was the shit story.

>> No.4430405

death's cold embrace, a recently finished FM campaign

>> No.4430493

I sort of wish the rules were more strict, e.g. no colored lighting.

>> No.4430495

based skacky saving thief1

>> No.4430510

>There are quite a few unused assets in the game’s CRFs
What kind of assets?

>> No.4430518


I thought you couldn't do colored lighting in t1

>> No.4430524

You can't, but the rules say that it can use all the NewDark stuff (including colored lighting).

Anyway, I might even give this a go for a first FM. I've tried dromed a tiny bit in the past but never succeeded in making anything worth releasing. Gonna have to hit up the guides if I go for it.

>> No.4430534
File: 164 KB, 2488x1928, MaigXmG.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How accurate is this map of the city? Is there a more accurate one anywhere?

>> No.4430565

Didst thou fabricate this thyself? I'd have no idea how to go about mapping the city out - that Ambush! mission in T2 for example would give you some idea, but who knows how much of the city is shown in the map?

>> No.4430570

No I didn't make it, it's from a massive 100 page long ttlg thread that I can't be bothered to scour through to see if there's a better one. There's like 20 diff fanmade versions or something.

>> No.4430591

there are countless fanmade maps of the city. personally, I'd prefer one that doesn't take the T3 map into account, as the T3 map clashes with the assassins/keeper map from T1.

>> No.4430596

In what way does the T3 map clash with assassins and the keeper map? Genuinely asking because I don't know anything about this.

>> No.4430606
File: 134 KB, 640x480, Keeper_map_tg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

let's begin by looking at the keeper map from T1. as you can see, we have the New Market in the middle, the High Towne to the NW, the Olde Quarter to the NE, and the Downtowne to the east. furthermore, we know that the South Quarter is to the SE of New Market, since Garrett marked that area with "home turf" in the assassins map and he is described as a "south quarter thief" by ramirez.

>> No.4430607

Is this map table actually aligned to where the top of it is actually north on Garrett's compass?

>> No.4430609

Come on, I agree that people should look into T1 before anything else but you just contradicted yourself right there. >>4430606
>we know that the South Quarter is to the SE of New Market
We know nothing about South Quarter being anywhere, because at no point is it established that Garrett lives in South Quarter. That's what Deadly Shadows decided.

>> No.4430614
File: 1.53 MB, 2500x2167, big_citymap2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Besides, Ramirez saying Garrett is a South Quarter thief can either be erroneous or his South Quarter place is one of many he has.

I've always seen this map as a very tiny fraction of the quarters and they all meet in this area in particular. There is this pic related non-canon map that used the Keeper map as a starting point.

>> No.4430617
File: 67 KB, 765x752, 1492124005672.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4430618
File: 135 KB, 721x671, TDS_manual_map.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

then we have the T3 map of the city.

here, the Old Quarter is placed to the SE of the South Quarter, and the name of the south Quarter becomes a mystery because it's really placed in the NW part of the city.

because the spatial relation between the Old Quarter and the SOuth Quarter don't add up between the games, players who want to map the city are faced with two choices. they either have to
>a. rotate one of the maps (usually the T1 map) around so that it matches the other
I've seen examples of this in the thread you mentioned. this inevitably fails because the canal in T1 clearly has a general orientation from the NW to the SE, which means that it should logically flow into the large river. by flipping the map around you also fuck up the the direction of the canal.
or they can
>b. make the old quarter huge and formless like in the >>4430534 map
which just seems plain weird.

>> No.4430621

>at no point is it established that Garrett lives in South Quarter. That's what Deadly Shadows decided
"Garrett - South Quarter 'independent' thief. Denied cut three times. Sent Quince and Jacow out to shorten him." - Ramirez, Assassins

>> No.4430642

My apologies. It's been over 13 years plus a certain 2014 incident and I still can't shake that unwarranted constant criticism of TDS as if Ion Storm had none of the original staff and didn't know what they were doing. Speaking of that...
I don't think the City should ever be mapped in a precise or comprehensive way, to retain the mystery of its vastness. If there's one thing about the flaws of TDS that isn't actually a flaw is that the open world was separated by loading zones, masking both the distances between the districts and the actual sizes of the districts themselves. That technical limitation saved the City from being reduced to the size of Angelwatch Tower.

>> No.4430643

it perfectly matches the assassins map, which is aligned to the compass.

>> No.4430650

Ion Storm knew what they were doing in story terms 100%.

The problem is delivery, no cool cutscenes, shit engine etc.

>> No.4430659

>I don't think the City should ever be mapped in a precise or comprehensive way,
I actually agree with you on this. in my own mapping attempts, I've mainly been interested in establishing the major roads and administrative borders. for the individual maps, I prefer to see them as small islands of explored territory floating somewhere in the vastness of the administrative areas I mentioned.

using the in-game evidence to puzzle the borders of the districts together is actually pretty fun. we have stuff like the keeper map, ramirez' division of the districts into wards and also roads in districts that have the names of other districts. using all this data to try and piece things together is really fun. the best part might be that we'll never reach a definite conclusion. T3 and TI4F both gave us extensive maps of the cities, but those don't really apply to the LG version of the city.

>> No.4430885

The scale of that seems pretty fucked up even though it seems to match Assassins perfectly, there's no way Undercover & Song of the Caverns' (at least the beginning area and the opera house on either side of where the arrow pointer is indicating the water talisman is in the caverns) map spaces fit into onto that in a way that makes sense where it's pointing that the water & air talismans are.

The Mage Towers are seemingly exempt here because the arrow is indicating off-map(?), I always thought they were located outside of the city itself at least (like most fan maps say).

>> No.4430989

Not the tools part. I think Bafford is a great introduction to the game, with each new zone changing almost thematically as you go on like I said about the Docks, but it also introduces you to the idea of adapting to the challenge freely without having to do specific actions to progress (except getting a couple of keys).
In the Docks every part of the mission has the key for the next part (be it literal keys or rope arrows that are the only way to get to your objective). A linearity somewhat unhortodox if compared to the usual Thief formula, and it usually kills the fun in big FMs. This one was short and polished, so it survived being not very Thief-like just fine.

>> No.4431008
File: 601 KB, 1309x1195, shit that doesn't make sense.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Ok I've done a bit of my own fucking around with the maps and attempting to fit the others to the Assassin's/Keeper map and yeah, as I said it makes no fucking sense. Even if you throw map-specific cardinal directions out the window and the fact that SotC is a Thief Gold map so the original map may not have been designed with its level design in mind, Undercover does not fit into this at all.

This is the closest I could get in my head with this in mind. I even put SotC in there under the assumption that the Keeper's water talisman mark on the map was to where the entrance of the caverns are rather than where it is underground. The problem with this is that if you use SotC's cardinal directions then the caverns themselves either overlap with Strange Bedfellows caves (which is obviously an issue) or the Opera House overlaps with Undercover's main area.

These maps are at their original scales from whoever put them on the Thief Wiki though, so if they aren't actually to scale with the sizes of the maps in-game then obviously that's a problem too, but Assassins fit perfectly at its original size with the Keeper map.

>> No.4431039

I remember a conversation from the first level from Thief 3 where two guards muse about The City being build and rebuild time after time.

>> No.4431046

If you had to be a guard in The City, who would you choose to work for?

I'd be sorely tempted to join the Mechanists. I have a thing for structure, order, discipline, uniforms, so on. I would probably opt for some nobleman instead, though, so I don't get turned into a servant

>> No.4431050

The Hand Brotherhood because the mage towers are max comfy.

>> No.4431051
File: 61 KB, 600x397, 07012013-PNS_1346-Editar1-e1371290533290.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


Yeah I love that magical nature of The City. Not only its a mish mash of all periods of Western civilisation but the magic and German expressionism, the labyrinthine medieval streets look like something out of a Umberto Eco, or Italo Calvino novel.

I wonder who at the time in LGS made the decisions in the cutscenes to make such a vibe.

>> No.4431053

I would work for garrett. Guard his house

>> No.4431058

All of that stuff is likely just carried over from Dark Camelot (Thief 1's working title & setting). Magical fantasy grimdark Camelot where King Arthur is the tyrannical bad guy.

>> No.4431068
File: 81 KB, 408x938, uguu karras sensei.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

pic related is the most appealing aspect of joining the mechanists.

>> No.4431074

You don't like hammerite & guard sausagefests??

>> No.4431086

Hammerites honestly seem the better choice if you apply with enough faith. They seem to cover each other, they are clearly not in charge of the city but are respected as a driving force in the secular and religious life of the city.

Seems mostly like Catholics\orthodox mix so probably comfy libraries with analogue works from Augustines and Aquinas to read.

And probably have some ties to some cool renaissance type artists.

>> No.4431106

IIRC Karras had built a functioning computer in Soulforge Cathedral, a huge monster that took up an entire room. It wouldn't have been long before he found a way to network them, then we wouldn't had TafferNet, the bored children of Nobles arguing with each other on in-universe imageboards.

>> No.4431108

then we would've had the*

>> No.4431112

Smiting the evil might be fun too if you're into that, but I don't want to end up in a hole like Cragscleft.

>> No.4431119

Cragscleft might be my single favourite mission in the entire Thief franchise. Not that the mission itself is particularly well-designed or aesthetic or anything, but I really love the gradual progression you have from the barren, fetid mines, up through the gritty and spartan factory and prison, and then to the cushy and opulent Priests' quarters.

>> No.4431141

my only problem with it is the missing front entrance that is supposed to be beyond the dining area. apart from that, I do like it a lot. and it IS aesthetic, especially the outdoor areas.

>> No.4431149

just join the post-truart city watch. not only do you avoid the sausage fests of the other factions, but you actually become part of a force of good in the city.

>> No.4431164

Spend all day getting blackjacked to unconsciousness, but I guess that goes for basically every faction.

>> No.4431172

what a lackluster ending

>> No.4431201

Same here. The first time I played it it felt neverending and overwhelming, with each danger hiding a bigger one. In time I realized it wasn't that big of a mission but I still cherish the memory of that first run.
In general a lot of TG levels gave me this feel of being too far into hostile territory and only halfway there.

>> No.4431221

A masterpiece.
It flows really well and organically. I can imagine a mission done in the same style with a beefier engine.

And it has a nice ascending motif, from the crude haunted mines, to the first glimpses of the mysterious religious organization, the loud and alienating factory, going upper and deeper into the groans of the dark prison complex and the feeling of trespassing and also relief when you reach the Priests barracks. and you feel all that beneath you when you skulk around topside.

>> No.4431319

Ah yes its my favorite one aswell, 1st encounter with zombie scared the shit out of me, in the prison itself i felt embattled and it was pretty damn hard because i didnt discover lean forward + blackjack yet and i played on low gamma, i had to reload over and over again because hammerites was alerted so easly but it was best thief experience i ever had, if i thinking about it more mayby i should limit myself dont use lean forward and higher gamma because otherwise it feel quite easy once you get your hands on blackjack and couple of water arrows.

>> No.4431367
File: 85 KB, 600x931, 6ac4226e3039c294f505e9353ebd34c1--art-styles-presentation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I wonder how much of a character The City itself is. To what degree does it control the factions and it's inhabitants?

>> No.4431542

i want to get a love tap

>> No.4431554
File: 47 KB, 610x600, garrett.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Your post exhibits a dangerous lack of pragmatic cynicism and out of hand dismissal of anything remotely poetic or sentimental-natured.

But someone who isn't Garrett would say that prior to TDS the City had plenty of influence of people's actions. The streets themselves are one giant magical glyph tied to all of the other destiny-shaping magic that the keepers used. After TDS however, I'd have to say what Garrett would probably say and it's that a city lives and dies by its inhabitants, not the other way around. The only magic in these streets that controls the people is the mystical force that always steers the blue collars successfully back home after last call with no memory of their nightly pub tour.

>> No.4431575



>> No.4431674

I'd like Karras a lot more if his master plan wasn't to destroy all life because hammer god.

>> No.4431689


the trickster was a much more interesting villain

>> No.4431731

Here's an old interview with a cutscene artist.

>> No.4431759
File: 698 KB, 800x600, latest[2].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

The opera house, ez
>sick gold armor
>get to listen to that cool orchestra tuning sound bit during my patrol
>lots of tile makes it easy to catch taffers
>have fun hunting for that rascal Raoul
>adventures in the tunnels beneath

>> No.4431767

>adventures in the tunnels beneath
*gets arrow trapped*

>> No.4432718

>that one guardsman who's patrol always goes through the ballerina training gym

>> No.4432850

What other place of work lets you check out polygonal qts?

>> No.4432893


>> No.4432916
File: 36 KB, 1280x720, beta bugbeast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

the pagans


>> No.4433048
File: 41 KB, 600x450, thief4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Original bugbeast is fucking spooky as hell, it really is a shame they cut it for the power ranger villain bugbeast, don't know why people don't use that bugbeast more in FMs considering it's in the TG game files for use in the dev joke mission. Get to it skacky, I know you're in here, throw a bugdemon in Black Parade somewhere.

It's an even bigger shame the Ogre from Dark Camelot isn't in the game files at all, that thing is horrifying too. Can imagine it with the same/similar sounds as the treebeasts, I think there's a custom character model someone made on TTLG which tried to recreate it.

>> No.4433065

Agreed. Thief is masterpiece but I always forget how much stuff got cut.

>> No.4433074

>I think there's a custom character model someone made on TTLG which tried to recreate it.
Actually upon further inspection the guy who made the custom ogre model is the same guy who made his own version of the original bugbeast in the video above.


Not sure about the sounds he used for it. I think the Burrick grunting and stuff is ok but it needs to sound deeper as well as be mixed with the treebeast sounds or something (minus treebeast passive clicking noises). Not sure how applying sounds to each action of a new AI works in dromed at all though.

>> No.4433093

Somebody really needs to make Dark Camelot.

The idea of the game itself is incredible, a supped up immersive fps rgp Arx Fatalis, Ultima in a dark fantasy berserky setting?

Sign me now.

>> No.4433104

did he really make that one from scratch? it looks almost exactly like the real thing.

>> No.4433117

IIRC the textures for the ogre model do exist in the T1 game files but the model doesn't. It's the model he made from scratch and it does have some noticeable differences (angle/shape of head, the pecs/ogre man tits area).

>> No.4433136

I see.

but didn't they actually release some very early tech demo for dark camelot?

>> No.4433162

Literally the best series ever.

>> No.4433163

I don't think so? If you have one I'd like to see it, heh.

There's this old trailer/reveal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIMzs5O3QWo

>> No.4433237

Who's speaking in that trailer? Is it Paul Neurath? Doesn't sound like him. I don't remember what Doug Church sounds like.

>> No.4433249

this was what I was talking about:


>> No.4433264

>Rowena's Curse
>lockpick open a wallsafe
>wallsafe contains 2 keys
>1 key is for a door right beside you in this room that disappears upon use
>the other key is for a chest in the room right behind that door that disappears upon use
>inside of the chest is a key for some other room in the mansion

Why not just put the key for the mansion room inside of the wall safe?

>> No.4433452

Damn, this guy actually makes some pretty cool stuff. Bringing back original concepts in the same style as the original game (rather than retarded high poly models that look out of place as fuck in the dark engine, like that one new skeleton model among other things).


This is made from the Cobra Demon concept art (+ in-game head trophy that you can find above mantlepieces and shit all over the place in the games, along with the Burrick and Craymen trophies). I always wondered why this thing didn't actually make it into the game but this guy seems to have done a good job with recreating it.

>> No.4433457

I would not mind someone making slightly higher poly guards that would sheath swords.

Are there any higher poly guards?

>> No.4433469

I wonder if the sounds the bug-bugbeast makes were originally meant for this version. It always sounded too human, which of course added to the oddity factor.

>> No.4433484


I liked those hammerites with actual crossbows, not those stupid looking tiny ones mechanists use in t2. I don't think any fm uses them yet.

>> No.4433538

He's also one of the team members for The Black Parade.

>> No.4433543

Oh shit. That's pretty hype.

So, ogres then?

>> No.4433636

That's Junction Point, not Dark Camelot. Unfortunately I can't find the page I was thinking of that has has other screenshots. The video's from Warren Spector's old tapes, some other cool stuff in there. http://av.cah.utexas.edu/index.php?title=Category:Warren_Spector_Papers

>> No.4433665
File: 16 KB, 800x450, 6uelMQe[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

New TDM mission

>> No.4433684

I see. I guess it looked a bit too cyberpunky to be from thief/camelot.

speaking of which: cyberpunk themed FM when?

>> No.4433721

Just play SS2 or SS2 FMs lol.

>> No.4433728
File: 40 KB, 545x470, 258853640470.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.4433756

I want cities with skyscrapers, not cramped space stations

>> No.4433807

Thinking about submitting something. Does anyone know if the Dromed Basic Toolkit 1.14 beta is good to use?

>> No.4433865

Otherside just told me that they may be hanging one of my Thief artworks on their wall.

>> No.4433921

Which one?

>> No.4433930

That's a very upset dog

>> No.4433934

Yeah, it works just fine.

>> No.4433939

Does TFix also alter FMs? I had the impression the lightmaps were a bit screwed. Might have to reinstall the game. Was surprised by the way you had to enter the storage room. Didn't know I even had rope arrows I could use and I couldn't see the wooden ceiling. What other FM we played previously had few resources the player could use?

>> No.4433945

i know the new mantling behavior in newdark allows you to break some FMs

>> No.4433959
File: 354 KB, 1050x1589, kotn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This one. Pretty dark though. And this I made brighter with PS.

>> No.4433964

speaking of newdark, i really want the source code to these games released

just imagine if someone implemented VR

>> No.4433979
File: 538 KB, 1689x1100, stop making FMs.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Let's do this.

>> No.4433993

the source code for the Dark Engine was discovered a few years ago. It's the reason why patch 1.19 exists. The "mantiling behavior of NewDark" is not exactly a behavior, but a fix of a badly coded mantling system that never took into account specific types of level geometry. The flaw was purely mathematical and the effects had no ingame reason to manifest.
Basically if you tried to climb over a fence that was too narrow, you couldn't because the engine thought that there was no room for the player on top of such a narrow obstacle. This was supposed to prevent players from mantling onto extremely narrow ledges on walls. It also (partially) prevented players from mantling through small windows because Garrett would need to be able to stand up after mantling. The animation was unable to end in a crouching stance. Both of these flaws could not have been fixed without access to the source code, and that's why it was left as it was for over a decade.

>> No.4434076

So how hard is it to map in DromEd compared to something like Source? I used to be fairly decent at Source mapping and kinda been meaning to give DromEd a try.

>> No.4434082

I have no idea because I never used Hammer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFIcXS4qx4E [Embed]
I only checked out these guides a couple years ago and remembered a bit from it. Guess I'll be going back over them.

>> No.4435189
File: 2.91 MB, 1920x1200, dump000.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4435198

Is this your babby's first dromed room?

>> No.4435204


>> No.4435238

Is that a talk show set?

>> No.4435253
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>> No.4435285
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>> No.4435287
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>> No.4435297

>Where art thou, villain?

>> No.4435303
File: 436 KB, 1366x768, kill factory II.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

this mod is pretty cool.

>> No.4435307
File: 564 KB, 1366x768, kill factory II2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

it has a futuristic setting, with robot enemies and high tech items. it has some pretty nice views, as well.

so far it seems a bit amateurish. there are no footsteps, for example, although I guess it's possible that this is intentional.

>> No.4435316
File: 552 KB, 1366x768, kill factory II3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

the resource management worked pretty well. they didn't spoil you too much with items, and the items weren't too overpowered. it's pretty short, but definitely worth a play.

>> No.4435321

>implying thief needs any mods

>> No.4435335

I meant to say FM

>> No.4435340

Who are worse? Thief 3 apologists or Thief 2 fanboys who think Thief 1 is a bad Thief game?

>> No.4435341

For another sci-fi mission there's Brainchild. I never played much of it but it but it seemed cool

>> No.4435349

Thief 2 fanboys are annoying, especially those who tout to newcomers that they should skip Thief 1.

>> No.4435362

>T3 apologist
never seen one

>T2 fanboy saying T1 is bad
definitely the worst. this is pretty much the general opinion among people who aren't thief fans, though. the reviews for T2 praised how they had "fixed the shortcomings" of T1, that is, removed the undead, made the setting even more modern and high-tech than before, etc.

>> No.4435365

Yeah I guess my question wasn't really a fair fight as Thief 3 apologists can come in many shapes and sizes, and that specific brand of Thief 2 fanboy described are fucking terrible.

>> No.4435375

There's a lot of T3 apologists. But as I mentioned >>4435365 they come in many different shapes and sizes. They vary from people who outright think T3 is the best Thief game/an improvement in every way to people who think it wasn't a bad sequel simply because the graphics are good despite the huge gameplay and level design limitations that came from shitting it on to the Xbox.

There's also an even more specific type that say Thief 3 is the best Thief game but also hates Thief 1 for its supernatural stuff (similar to a T2 fanboy), despite the fact that Thief 3 has that shit too.

>> No.4435383

What's the best build of dromed to use for Thief Gold NewDark missions for someone just starting? Can someone clarify this a bit for me.

I have a dromed in my Thief Gold folder which is marked as 1.37. Would like to take advantage of NewDark's extra features (larger map sizes, colored lighting and stuff) in TG.

>> No.4435396

Follow these steps: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148475&p=2377991&viewfull=1#post2377991

>> No.4435402
File: 1011 KB, 960x540, Thief II.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4435404

Can confirm, I set it up following that post and it works fine. If you're planning on being part of the contest, make sure you use a fresh install of TG+TFix with none of the graphical enhancements installed, since only TG assets are allowed by the rules.

>> No.4435449

Thanks. Just went and reinstalled from scratch and did all that. Gonna go and get stuck into some tutorials now to try and get the hang of this stuff, I've dabbled in dromed before ages ago but never actually made anything in it.

>> No.4435503
File: 25 KB, 1032x348, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Does anyone here use a 120-144hz monitor or are you all 60hz plebs? I've been fucking with the NewDark settings for ages to try and get shit to work properly. Ok, first of all, the game looks and feels REALLY fucking good in 144fps on a 144hz monitor. It's silky smooth without any noticeable blurring or problems aside from just one.

The problem: In 144fps (or anything over like 75 for that matter) the physics when it comes to pressure plate related puzzles bug out and update like 50x slower than they're meant to. You can stand on a pressure plate for like 30 seconds before it reaches the on position basically, meaning traps related to them always trigger late or puzzles involving them are hard to know when you're doing shit right. You can speed this up by spamming quicksave (which momentarily drops your framerate by a lot) to speed up openings of doors linked to pressure plates and shit. This is super janky and a bad workaround.

Anyway, pic related are some NewDark options related to this shit. You'd think physics frequency would be what I'm looking for and yes it does work, so does vsync mode 7 or even lowering framerate_cap to 60 but all phys_freq & vsync make the game run like shit and make looking around and movement feel really jittery, jumpy and inaccurate, framerate_cap 60 doesn't have this problem but it makes shit really fucking blurry when you're moving and looking around quickly, as if vaseline is smeared on my screen (like playing any 60fps game on 144hz). Frankly I've gotten used to how amazing the game looks and feels on 144 but this problem persists.

Does anyone know a combination of these lines (or others not pictured) that would solve my problem because the pressure plate aids is getting to me. I just want 144hz everything except physics-based puzzles/pressure plates. The phys_freq line seems to change the movement as well which is the problem here.

>> No.4435627
File: 144 KB, 800x800, 1490224137583.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Gonna need a full FM of this.

>> No.4435652

Is there a way to make it so I don't have to select show texture index every time I open the texture palette in dromed?

>> No.4435662

What do you mean?

>> No.4435667
File: 78 KB, 372x416, tex.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

To get the numbers, you have to do Right Click > View > Show Texture Index. But every time I go into the game and then back out to the editor, the texture palette closes so I have to open it again and select the same option in order to see them. Just a slight annoyance, and probably won't be an issue once I stop screwing around and actually try to make something, but I was wondering.

>> No.4435671

Huh, I never used that. Didn't know that existed.

>> No.4435674

It seems pretty useful for texturing brushes faster than doing it directly with the cursor. Have you ever published a mission before? And do you have any tips for an absolute beginner?

>> No.4435681

For a thing coded in the 90s its pretty okay.

very lacking compared to modern stuff, but has that simplicity of the day going for it.

Consider the success of Thief fan made missions, they could have only existed with a robust thingy.

>> No.4435683

Is the ultimate difficulty mod good?

its been years but I might stream Thief and I want a bit of challenge if detected.

>> No.4435729

I have several published missions. Is there anything specific you'd like to know?

>> No.4435738

Not really, just anything you wish you knew when you were starting out (that you can realistically explain in a post).

>> No.4435747

>Try to avoid using Light Brushes. Use Light Objects instead (OmniLightPoint, etc). Speaking of lights, do not use infinite radii on them.
>You can rename objects, which is useful if you want to keep track of them or use them in setups. ID numbers often change upon reload but the names always stay.
>The cell limit is 32760. It's pretty high, but as soon as you reach it you can't optimize anymore. Air brushes are big cell eaters, especially cylinders used as arches. It's good practice to create arches with solid wedges instead for arches that are on 90° architecture. The same thing applies to trimming; use solid brushes instead of air.
>Unchecking Efficiency Settings for AIs prevents them from being frozen at a certain distance.
>AlignExt is the best thing ever and is a godsend for texturing. It UV locks a texture on a face that uses it and you can resize it to your heart's content, even flipping it by entering a negative scale.
>You can easily seamlessy texture cylinders by selecting a cylinder and using the command uvmap_cylinder. The U and V values are multiples of 8. For example if your cylinder is 8 units tall and uses a texture that's 64*64px, you'll have to enter 2 in V so that the texture scale is 16. Once you understand how it works it becomes super easy.
>Sound travels from Roombrush origin to Roombrush origin. If your Roombrushes are too big, sound can cut off between them. I usually don't create Roombrushes bigger than 64*64*64. Make sure they slightly 'leak' into each other as well.
>Roombrushing doorways with doors in them can be tricky. You want to use two Roombrushes in a doorway. They should touch each other at the center of the door.
>Checking Immobile in Object System makes the object cast shadows. You can also use the prop Runtime Shadows so that the shadow the object casts acts as a real shadow Garrett can hide in.
>You can check the prop Blocks AI Vision on objects so that AIs can't see through them. Useful for barrels or trees.

>> No.4435774

How does AI perceive sound?
Is it possible to create a turning cog that makes such a loud noise, that neither the player nor the guard can hear footsteps on a marble floor?

>> No.4435795


>Multibrushes don't snap to the grid by default. You can change this by adding the line vbrush_snap in USER.CFG. Keep in mind that when you import a multibrush from another mission, it also imports that mission's gamesys without really importing it, resulting in tons of missing archetypes under "Missing". You want to use the command purge_missing_objs to remove them.
>It is good practice to check for unsnapped brushes every once in a while, especially if you use multibrushes. ALWAYS SNAP ON THE LOWEST GRID YOU USED! Keep in mind also that this command is global, that means that if you work with a MeOnly'd area brush and you want to snap your brushes within it, all the brushes in the entire mission will be snapped even if the rest of the mission is inactive. This caught me by surprise a long time ago.
>Spinny doors can use an inverted rotation angle. Spinny doors use a clockwise opening angle of 270.00. You can have them open the other way by replacing 270.00 with 90.00, but you HAVE TO uncheck Clockwise? if you do that.
>Slidy doors need to have a space they can retract into. If you don't add one they will disappear forever when they open (this is what happens with the sapphire vase safe in Thieves' Guild).

A good thing to do also is to look at other peoples' missions in DromEd, to see how they did this or that thing. It's pretty educational and with multi-mission authors you also see how they improve and do things differently with each release.

Not possible, sadly. AIs completely ignore ambient noises. You could make them deaf but it's a bit stupid if they also patrol is an area that isn't noisy.

>> No.4435798

Why do they ignore it?

>> No.4435805

They've gone deaf from hearing each other's loud muttering all day every day.

>> No.4435809

I don't know, I didn't program the engine. They only react to 'normal' sounds such as footsteps, alarms, impact noises, etc. They ignore everything else, be it machine sounds or birds chirping.

>> No.4435823

What about scripts?

>> No.4435834

Thanks, copied all that down.

>> No.4435836

I don't use scripts very often, my missions tend to be rather basic on that front. You'd have more luck on TTLG.

>> No.4435964

>Does TFix also alter FMs?
It should, although I don't think I've experienced problems with it for now.

>What other FM we played previously had few resources the player could use?
Off the top of my head, but I have to check the whole list again, we had limited equipment or useful in very specific situations in these cases:
-The secret room in Koobze is opened by a switch you can reach only with rope arrows. They're semi-hidden like the rest of your equipement, so both the room and the arrows are completely optional.
-In St. Fera there's that part with fire elementals and a readable in the library hints the location of water arrows to dispose of them easily.
-In Uninvited Guests there's a little armory with a few fire arrows, really useful since the mission seems built with combat in mind. In the same room there's the Eye to take to end the mission, so they're actually useless.
-The first vial of holy water was, I think, in the Odium. Best to keep it until the upper floor for the haunts.
We also had unique items like Torben's sword or the Skull of Lysander, but they were only something to take with you. I still can't get over the fact that we didn't actually have to switch the skull with the fake one to complete the objective.

I think this one room was the first that required some lateral thinking from our side. Since there's no regular way to get inside (and I thought for too long that the body with the immaginary key was just lying on the bottom of the sea where I dropped it), there must be a weakness a good thief would notice and take advantage of. My only problem with the whole thing is how hard it was to tell that there was wood to stick a rope arrow to up there in the hole, I shoot it blindly because it was the only logical solution but now I'm tempted to get there again to check if it really was wood.
Maybe another similar case, still unmatched, was luring the guard with the key in Gathering at the Bar in the cellar by switching the generator off

>> No.4435978

A couple specific questions:
Is there a way to make it so all the light objects I make are colorless be default?
Is there a standard way to do stairs quickly and without fucking them up? Regular stairs aren't too bad but I'm not sure how I'd do a spiral staircase like I've seen in some missions.

>> No.4435983

>how hard it was to tell that there was wood
In general there were a lot of spots shrouded in black, even if you turned the gamma to max

>> No.4436006

Yeah, edit the archetypes and add Renderer -> Light Color 0.00 0.00
I use wedges to create spiral staircases. 3 solid and one air per quadrant.

>> No.4436160

How does Goalmaster apply to https://nickdablin.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/absolute-beginners-guide-to-creating-a-mission-for-thief-2-part-six/
I figured I had to export it, but to what folder? Shouldn't they be exported to the folder containing my current project?

>> No.4436163
File: 4 KB, 438x121, 1503143265298.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.4436963

Anyone playing Thief on a good modern monitor that can render black areas and shadows like CRTs? That was one thing I hated about the TFT meme.