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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 302 KB, 1160x684, 1446482593919.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4374960 No.4374960 [Reply] [Original]

What's the point of PVMs when LCDs already give you the sharpest possible image?
Want scanlines? just emulate them, they are just blacklines between sprites, you can even adjust the transparency if you are autistic enough

The way the developers intended was either composite or RF. A blurry mess that helped smooth things up, dithering and even colors , nothing like your meme display

>> No.4374968

>>4374960
huhuhu input lag

>> No.4374978

fake news:

>what CRT say the game was supposed to look like

correcting the record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92L5qdH3Vis

>> No.4374985

>I've never played an actual arcade game in my life

It legit makes me sad

>> No.4374989

>>4374985
We are talking about game consoles here
Everybody already knows arcades used RGB but console game were never made for anything better than S-Video

>> No.4375013

muh blocky pixels

>> No.4375074

>>4374960
It's always nice to see a troll image you made years ago get reposted. /vr/ you warm the cockles of my cold black heart :)

>> No.4375084

>>4375074
t. PVM owner

>> No.4375125
File: 530 KB, 2002x1502, P10706811.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4375125

>>4375084

>> No.4375135

>>4374960
>The way the developers intended was either composite or RF.
Why was RGB so popular in Japan then?

>> No.4375145

>>4374960
regarding pic on left: who the hell plays THAT close to the screen? i mean, really. really?

>> No.4375148

>>4374960
>LCDs
Enjoy those jagged lines and input lag.

>The way the developers intended was either composite or RF. A blurry mess that helped smooth things up, dithering and even colors , nothing like your meme display
Exactly. Aperture grille tubes with RGB still have dithering. They just look nicer, more colorful, brighter and better contrast.
You will still see how the developers intended it to be on your 28" meme display when you sit far away from it on your couch.
We aren't talking about Apple II's or CGA PCs and composite artifacting.

This is just bad and overused bait and you should feel bad for being too dumb to make up good bait.

>> No.4375151

>>4374978
Why would anyone choose NOT to play like this?
OP is full of shit.

>> No.4375156

>>4374989
Now you're just being obtuse

>> No.4375167

>>4374989
>We are talking about game consoles here
>never made for anything better than S-Video
>literally have native RGB output

>> No.4375251

>>4375135
It wasn't.

>> No.4375254

Try being born before 1995 or something.

>> No.4375281

>>4374960
>The way the developers intended was either composite or RF
This is only truth for consoles without rgb output

>> No.4375301

Scanlines are shit. Video games never had noticeable scanlines. Only some PC fmv if your video card was crap.

Who is selling this meme that old games had noticeable scanlines?

>> No.4375312

>>4375251
So many Japanese TV sets I've gotten over the years.
All of them have RGB input.

Is the naysaying some American reflecs because they got fucked over by RCA?

>> No.4375317

>>4375301
>Scanlines are shit. Video games never had noticeable scanlines.
Wait, you're saying videogame consoles never outputted 240p?
Visible scan lines are a thing of 240p, not meme PVMs or related. A cheap shadow mask CRT will have visible scanlines.
Are you underage?

>> No.4375320

PVMs are a joke now. Too expensive to warrant buying unless you can get one for el cheapo. Better to just get a consumer Trinitron and save the $$$.

>> No.4375324

>>4375320
>Better to just get a consumer Trinitron and save the $$$.
Like Yuropeans always have? Huge Trinitrons with RGB and PAL60, that people give away for free these days.

>> No.4375327

>>4375312
Kids weren't playing games with RGB, get over it.

>> No.4375338

>>4375324
Any trinitron that doesn't look like it sat in someone's smoke room/back porch that has an s-vid or component input will serve you well. The danger with PVMs is they're workhorses. You get one without knowing how much time it's pulled. Which wouldn't be a problem at sub-$100 prices, but when you're buying a used TV for $100+, you're being tarded. REal TARDed. And a PVM isn't going to be a big increase in quality over RGB that a nice 20" consumer Trinitron via Component can't really match unless you sit a foot off from the screen like some kinda fucknut.

>> No.4375347

>>4375338
Holy shit, you're right.

'Muribros have to gable and pay ridiculous meme prices for small PVMs that could have tens of thousands of hours on them.
While Yurobros can just get and even choose between huge consumer Trinitrons that already have RGB and geometry settings for almost nothing or free.

>> No.4375706

>>4375347

Nice try. PAL is an abomination that should be smited from the earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn7g21y7GvQ

>> No.4375709

>>4375706
Not only was the aspect ratio fucked, they had to play their games in slow motion. What a stupid fucking blunder.

>> No.4375717

>>4375709

And regardless if it's still technically considered an official release, eurogaming is at best an afterthought and not the way the developers intended the game to be played

>> No.4375724

>>4375706
What are you talking about?
You do realize PAL has nothing to do with RGB?

>> No.4375730

>>4375706
>>4375709
>>4375717
You do realize this was a problem with bad PAL conversions, mostly Nintendo games and some Sega ones as well.
Actual pal conversions had higher resolution and ran at 100% speed, just at 50Hz.

>> No.4375732

>>4375730
So you lose 10 frames of visual information every single second for a "higher resolution"?

>> No.4375738

>>4375706
>>4375709
>>4375717
I just play the NTSC version ROMs for the games that are bad conversions on my RGB Trinitron on my 60Hz modded console (or Wii) that runs them at the right speed and resolution.
There is no problem anymore.

>> No.4375742

>>4375732
Between 50 and 60 frames, this isn't really a problem.
You do get more visual information in a single frame though thanks to the higher resolution.

In the end, you still get the same amount of pixels every second, doesn't matter if it's PAL or NTSC, as long as it's properly done.

>> No.4375746

>>4375742
Please spoonfeed me screenshots where PAL games display more visual information compared to their NTSC counterparts

>> No.4375771

>>4375746
Streets of Rage 2, Chaotix, Super Mario World. These I know use the extra resolution. Asking for 5th gen screens is retarded because using the higher res became the standard by then, so you're alone on that.

>> No.4375775

>>4375771
With a PAL aspect ratio you actually lose horizontal screen space for vertical screen space, it's a shit trade off, ESPECIALLY in games like Mario. That combined with 10 fps of information, you end up with overall less. PAL gaming is a mistake in every single instance.

>> No.4375818

>>4375775
>With a PAL aspect ratio you actually lose horizontal screen space

Who the what now?

>> No.4375819

>>4375775
>With a PAL aspect ratio you actually lose horizontal screen space for vertical screen space
Are you pulling that out of your ass?
Horizontal resolution stays the same, you gain vertical resolution.

>ESPECIALLY in games like Mario.
Mario never had a proper PAL conversion.

>That combined with 10 fps of information, you end up with overall less.
You do realize, you lose 20% FPS but gain 20% resolution.
In one second, your TV shows you same amount of pixels, doesn't matter if it's PAL or NTSC, doesn't even matter if it's a video game console or a movie.

You're confusing something here.

>> No.4375820

>>4375771
>Super Mario World
You sure? IIRC Super Mario World was a bad PAL conversion?
Sorry, not that into Nintendo, Streets of Rage 2 does however take advantage of PAL resolution.

>> No.4375826

>>4375819
The tiny vertical resolution gain just isn't worth a loss of frames so huge. That increased field of view on the top and bottom won't do anything in most games because most games go left to right, and those that it does were definitely without any doubt designed with NTSC in mind so there's not really any necessary advantage to be had.

>> No.4375834

>>4375820
>You sure? IIRC Super Mario World was a bad PAL conversion?

Not really, sure the game runs slower and thus feels a little bit floaty, but it outputs 239 discrete lines compared to the NTSC 224, and the music/effects are the same because the sound processor runs separate from game code IIRC.

>> No.4375837

>>4375826
The game playfield was usually the same. The advantage was more vertical lines, the picture was sharper.
More pixels with the same size playfield = sharper image. The physical TV screen was still the same size.

>> No.4375838

>>4375834
Thanks, didn't know that.

>> No.4375840

>>4375837
You didn't really acknowledge what I said. A "sharper image" (not really because there was just more vertical information and the same horizontal) would only apply to 3d games. any 2d game is just going to gain a tiny bit of screen space or nothing at all, or just be squished and scaled weirdly, because a pixel is a pixel is a pixel. You only lose out on gameplay.

>> No.4375841

>>4374960
Cool bait kid. Sounds like you're angry your mom won't let you have a CRT.

>> No.4375843

It's all preference. Don't worry what everyone else does.

>> No.4375846

>>4375840
>(not really because there was just more vertical information and the same horizontal)
Vertical counted more though, as you had them lines closer together.

>because a pixel is a pixel is a pixel
Hence you needed to have a proper conversion.
So you didn't end up with tiny bit of screen space, but the same physical size on the glass of the TV, but with more lines and still in proposition.

>> No.4375848

>>4375846
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but if you're saying that a sprite is going to look better on a PAL tv than an NTSC tv you're wrong. a pixel of a sprite is a pixel of a sprite, no artist is going to go through and add extra pixels to characters and objects to make them look better on a PAL display.

>> No.4376370

Why do these threads always descend into people that don't even understand the actual pros and cons of PAL and NTSC arguing like they're educated analog TV technicians?

>> No.4376484

>>4375843
This. Some people prefer to play the Mario Bros remake. Because it looks better

>> No.4376508

>>4374960
I prefer to play with a CRT filter that mimics RF module artifacts, haze, and flicker because that is how I remember those games. Nostalgia is fickle like that. Everyone experiences it differently. I personally cannot stand seeing pixel clarity when playing 8 bit or 16 bit era games.

>> No.4378454

>>4374960
no idea.

>> No.4378556
File: 142 KB, 1445x878, super cassette vision.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4378556

>>4375327
So that's why RGB support was advertised as a selling point, right?

>> No.4378756

>>4376370
Because everyone who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about are in the CRT general and not in this obvious bait thread.

>> No.4378768

>>4376508
The Japanese and NES minis both emulate CRT filter and even RF interference; is that what you meant by RF module artifacts? At any rate, I was shocked that Nintendo gave a shit, but it does the nostalgia trick.

>> No.4378937

>>4375301
have you ever played an arcade game you mongoloid? if you played say knights of the round or street fighter 2 on an actual cab you'll see gorgeous scanlines

>> No.4379338

>>4374978
God damn that is sexy. so smooth and wonderful.

>> No.4379347

>>4378937
He emulated them on his moms ipad and they didn't have scan lines

>> No.4379356

>>4378768
Yeah. There are some really great filters out there for emulators. For yeaaaaaars I couldn't put my finger on why emulators looked different. I just didn't understand NTSC and CRT combined created the look I remembered. Then I saw this site and my world changed:

http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2010/12/crt-pixel-shader-filter-for-snes.html

I was so quick to find some for the emulators I use, now I cannot play without them. THAT is how my games looked and that is how I want to play them now.

I'm very pleased to hear Nintendo put in the filters on their Classic consoles.

>> No.4379487

>>4374960
15Khz RGB shadow mask master race.

>> No.4379613

>>4374960
The image on the right was more playing on public impressions of what digital graphics look like because that's how they were always portrayed on television. Probably stemmed from earlier low resolution consoles and PC games where individual "pixels" spanned multiple scan lines and the pixelation was clearly visible.