/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4369615]

Woah nice level design you got there

[Anonymous No.4369623]

>>4369615
>implying that wasn't intentionally made that way to piss off ADHD millenial faggots such as you, OP

[Anonymous No.4369625]

>>4369623
>implying OP is a millennial and not a Gen Z shit eater

[Anonymous No.4369629]

>>4369625
Good point. Either way, there's some low-attention-span easy-mode-only going on with OP.

[Anonymous No.4369882]

>>4369615
Yes Metroid is shit. The series didn't get good until Super. Everyone knows this already.

[Anonymous No.4369919]

>>4369615
Let's be honest, this is kinda bullshit.

Like, I get having a game without a map, and I get reusing rooms - but no game should do BOTH. Because if then, how the fuck am I supposed to tell where I am?

If you can't navigate by shape of the rooms/landmarks then what's the point of making a game without a map?

Let's not pretend this is some amazing enlightened design, this is a level designer getting lazy and copypasting big chunks of level data because he didn't care.

[Anonymous No.4370105]

>>4369919
>waaaaah, I don't wanna use my brain to figure things out, waaah, everything should be easy as fuck, waaaaah, devs should never intentionally try to make things difficult for their players
Git gud, faggot.

[Anonymous No.4370142]

>>4370105
You know, just because something is difficult, doesn't mean it's going to make for an enjoyable challenge. When games today blatantly reuse environments to avoid having to actually make more content, they get shit on for it. And rightfully so. This kinda lazy shit in Metroid is not exactly one of retro gaming's proudest moments, is it?

[Anonymous No.4370147]

>>4370142
>games today
>today
There's your problem: you're comparing the original Metroid (released in the 1980's, which is NOT today) to modern games (released this decade, which ARE today). So in terms of game design TODAY, sure Metroid did a pretty shitty job of it in some areas. But for its time, given what the devs had to work with (technology, coding techniques/languages, time limits, etc), they did a damn great job, great enough to partially define a vidya genre of its own: Metroidvania. So it actually IS one of retro gaming's proudest moments. You're wrong.

[Anonymous No.4370159]

>>4370105
How is this 'using my brain'? I have to either count the exits, which is boring and not a challenge at all, or guess in which room I am, which isn't using my brain.

This is completely brainless and not 'difficult' at all.

All of them lead to the same place on both sides, so it's not like I will die if I will pick the wrong one, THAT would be difficult - but it's not.
In fact, you can't even GET LOST in there, because the shaft on the left doesn't lead ANYWHERE except those three rooms - and shaft on the right has only one exit. This thing exist SOLELY to make player think they will see some unique rooms, but there's nothing there.

Game artificially taking longer to complete ISN'T difficulty, by this logic Desert Bus is most hardcore game ever made.

It's just cheap and lazy way to confuse the player and pad out the game time by making player 'explore' the same room three times.

It's pure and unadulterated laziness, nothing more.

[Anonymous No.4370163]

>>4369919
You can navigate by landmarks, but not every room is a landmark. You don't need to be able to tell exactly where you are at a glance, because you have a brain with memory so you know what direction you've come from the last landmark. The repeated rooms actually give the game more replay value, because unlike modern Metroids you can still get lost on your second playthrough.

[Anonymous No.4370164]

>>4370147
Metroid wasn't the first metroidvania, just the most prominent, that's one.

Second, just because game is great doesn't mean it's flawless, and we need to acknowledge these flaws.

If that area had a single grinding room instead of pointless THREE rooms on top of each other, nothing would change at all, and it's not like it would take devs less time to NOT put these rooms in the game.

[Anonymous No.4370173]

>>4370164
>original Metroid
>NOT the first Metroidvania
Pick ONLY one.

[Anonymous No.4370176]

We get it, you hate NES games and you need people to agree with your opinions for validation.

[Anonymous No.4370181]

>>4370163
Except you can't get lost in that area because it's a dead end, it has these three rooms, a single exit and nothing else.
Pic related - there's nothing else there. You can't get lost there, it's just raw pointlessness.

Two of these identical rooms, shaft to the right and most of the shaft to the left are all completely fucking pointless.

These rooms would work IDENTICALLY in gameplay if there was a single grinding spot to the right of the missile tank room.

There's nowhere else to go. Nowhere to get lost. Nowhere to explore, nothing. It's just wasting player's time. THAT'S what OP is complaining about, and I agree with him.

[Anonymous No.4370182]

>>4370147

>implying games age

[Anonymous No.4370183]

I beat Metroid back when I was just barely a teenager. I'm sure Nintendo help lines existed back then, but the Internet certainly wasn't around. I had to navigate purely by rote memorization.

The map design isn't nearly as labyrinthine as people make it out to be. Every area is a series of straight corridors. Remember that Metroid 1 never had upper or lower doors, just doors on either end of each chamber. Each chamber also did EITHER horizontal or vertical scrolling, but not both at once. So there was only a single axis that the player could explore in any given chamber.

[Anonymous No.4370187]

>>4370173
And Rogue wasn't the first game in genre we call 'roguelike'. And a while back FPS games were called "Doom clones" even though Doom wasn't the first FPS.

Almost as if genres are named after most prominent examples rather the first examples of the genre.

[Anonymous No.4370196]

>>4369615
What is that game

[Anonymous No.4370215]

>>4370182
The only thing aged here is us.

[Anonymous No.4370217]

>>4370196
Donkey Donkey Picnic, the real Mario 2.

[Anonymous No.4370301]

>>4370196
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

[Anonymous No.4370308]

>>4370187
>And a while back FPS games were called "Doom clones"

There are that still define FPS as Quake 1 and onward, and everything before that as a "Doom clone," including Wolf3D. It's apparently based around whether that game has freelook or some shit.

[Anonymous No.4370340]

>>4370215
>>4370182
To be fair, I believe games can age, in VERY specific case.
What I mean is specifically when game isn't really that good, but gets high reviews because it's particularly innovative and groundbreaking at the time.

But other than that, I agree, in all other cases you just gotta adjust your expectations.

[Anonymous No.4370342]

>>4370308
...so Battlezone is a Doom clone?
That's fucking with my brain.

[Anonymous No.4370614]

>>4370105
Are you from the save states thread?

[Anonymous No.4370719]

>>4369919
>I spend all my allowance on video games and had none left over to buy a pencil and paper to make my own fucking map

[Anonymous No.4370726]

>>4370719
Any kid getting an allowance would already have a pencil and paper from going to school.

[Anonymous No.4370731]

>>4370342
Yeah, I mean I call them all FPS because the term fits but I've seen some nerds rage out when you say Doom is an FPS.

[Anonymous No.4370759]

>>4370182
>implying they don't
nostalgia is a hell of a drug

[Anonymous No.4370760]

Metroid 1 is my favourite Metroid. It's the only one close to being challenging. It's fun to draw your own map with your own symbols instead of the game just out-right giving it to you. The atmosphere is great.

The only problem I got is that you start with no health whenever you die/start up the game again. It's kind of boring to farm health just to get on with your adventure. Also, the save codes suck, I wish the non-Japanese cartridges had a battery.

[Anonymous No.4370768]

>>4370105

You need to git gud at reading comprehension you moron.

[Batowl No.4370780]

Nes games are too hard for op babby.

[Anonymous No.4370818]

>>4370614
Nope.

[Anonymous No.4370856]

>>4370340

Games do not age. Either it is a good game or it isn't. Either you played Mario64 and you enjoyed it or you didn't. You ride Star Fox hard and put it to bed wet or you don't. Zelda I is either neat-o keen or fucking horsecock.

Reviews do not change this, whether done today or 20 years ago.

>>4370759

>they don't

[Anonymous No.4370884]

>>4370856
Context matters a lot, actually. You're retarded.

[Anonymous No.4370894]

>>4370856
>Games do not age
I disagree. Tenchu 2 was a blast when tank controls were our only option and fog was necessary. Going back now I can barely play the game. If it came out today it would get slammed for its control scheme.

[Anonymous No.4370904]

>>4370894
Well if it were to come out today people would clamor for day-one dlc, online modes, preorder exclusive content and lootcrates. Get the fuck out of here with your modern games, kiddo.

[Anonymous No.4370950]

>>4370894

see >>4370904

>>4370884

And you're a nigger. The concept is a simply one: did you enjoy this game? If you did, guess what?

IT WAS A GOOD GAME!

If you did not (sorry there boyo), then do I have news for you!

THIS GAME SUCKED ASS THROUGH A SNORKEL.

All the context you need, buddyroo.

[Anonymous No.4370952]

>>4370950
if a retard has fun rolling a turd around in his mouth, is it a good game?

[Anonymous No.4370964]

>>4370952

Yes, for that given retard.

[Anonymous No.4371216]

>>4369615
Holy shit you young bastards...

Do you know how little space is in a NES cart? Using the same rooms over again is a substitute for NOT HAVING ROOMS AT ALL. There's so little room, they had to use stuff over and over again to extend gameplay. They did not have the option to just design a dozen new rooms. You design one and use it three times, you have 3 times as much space for the player to explore. It was the only way to do it.

You fucking kids have no idea what you're talk about in here, most times. You act like these games were purposefully made obtuse, or that the designers were lazy, when in fact most of the things you folks hate in old games exist because of platform limitations. The fucking nVidia GPU did not exist last century, and ROM was expensive as fuck. Memory did not grow on trees.

It's like you're watching a Marx Brothers film and bitching about it being stupid because it's in black and white.

[Anonymous No.4371237]

>>4371216
This argument makes much more sense that what
>>4369919
>>4370142
>>4370159
>>4370181
was blabbing about.

[Anonymous No.4371323]

>>4371216
>Using the same rooms over again is a substitute for NOT HAVING ROOMS AT ALL.

[Anonymous No.4371345]

>>4371323
What fucking game is that?

[Anonymous No.4371356]

>>4371345
Legacy of the Wizard, or Dragon Slayer IV in Japan

[Anonymous No.4371376]

>>4371216
>It's like you're watching a Marx Brothers film and bitching about it being stupid because it's in black and white.
The Marx Brothers had the choice of either making their movies in black and white or not making them at all. Metroid could still exist without reused rooms. In fact, it's possible it would be a better game for it. It's not a huge deal in any case, but I don't think the technological argument you're making holds up to scrutiny.

[Anonymous No.4371413]

Metroid 1 isn't a good game. It definitly has a place in history but it's simply not good. I say this is a huge fan of the NES.

The level design seems almost random in nature. Every metroid or metroidvania that came after it has much more focused intent.

The death system is also terrible, for whatever reason they thought it was a good idea to start you with no health and missles so you have to grind it up.

[Anonymous No.4371427]

>>4370105
Why be this embarrassing? Nothing should be so holy you can't criticize it. Metroid is still a great game in my opinion and the poster you are responding to isn't wrong in my opinion. I get the best ending pretty easily, the repeating rooms just makes certain parts a pain in the ass until you just remember where to go

[Anonymous No.4371451]

>>4370856
Games aging does not refer to a game being good or not, it refers to the comparison between design philosophy and genre standards of various time periods. A game with "aged" design or gameplay just means that the standards were from that older time. Super Mario 64 has aged camera control design but is still one of the best games ever made and as good as it ever was.

[Anonymous No.4371457]

>>4371451

So is SM64 a good game or not?

[Anonymous No.4371643]

>>4371457
yes, everything but the camera is good

[Anonymous No.4371661]

>Game that's intentionally designed to confuse you and make you get lost
>Confuses you and makes you get lost
Whoa.

[Anonymous No.4371668]

>>4371661
>eat food that makes me have a stinky turd
>you get grossed out and say my turd stinks

Woah.

[Anonymous No.4371703]

>>4370147
>>4370164
>Metroid wasn't the first metroidvania
dont you mean Tansaku?

[Anonymous No.4371718]

>>4370340
>>4370182
>>4370856
"Aging of content" is a thing.

It means that the content was only good in the context of its timeframe, and is not very good on its own merits.
Prime example: early CG, FMVs. It was the most advanced thing back in the day, and everyone wanted to have it. Looking back now you realise that they were shit. But back then they were praised.

DKC looks good not because of its technical aspect, but because of it's general visual design, that was great and will hold up no matter what. Sprite games with good sprite art will never age in the visual department.

This is also the reason "realistic" games age like dogshit visually - they don't have much in terms of actual visual design, and with technological advances their attempts at pulling off "realism" crumble in comparison.

[Anonymous No.4371946]

>>4370181
This area is obviously meant to confuse and disorient the player. Player would collect the missiles and then continue on thinking there is something there. As they get to the top, they start to feel lost and confused - havent i already been here?

Would you prefer a linear design, like SMB1? Do you want EVERY room to house treasure?

[Anonymous No.4371983]

>>4369615
As a game dev myself I gotta say that's abysmal design, probably caused by the memory limits of the nes. Nes games are not very good anyways, but a step up from atari. So it's like a jelly fish on the evolution table.

[Anonymous No.4371993]

>>4371983
>As a game dev myself

Sure thing, kiddo.

>probably caused by the memory limits of the nes

A "game dev" who doesn't know the difference between system memory and cartridge ROM?

[Anonymous No.4372036]

>>4371993
get over it

[Anonymous No.4372038]

>>4371983
You're not fooling anyone

[Anonymous No.4372043]

>>4369615
Nice bait, the repetition in that area of Metroid contributed to an amazingly tense atmosphere. I really had to concentrate on what I was doing to be sure I didn't get lost. Drawing a map is not necessary, all you need is concentration.

[Anonymous No.4372529]

>>4371993
Stupid frogposter.

[Anonymous No.4372543]

Not even Super Metroid was good so meh.