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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4365093 No.4365093 [Reply] [Original]

Fellas, I'm about to give Baldur's Gate 2 another shot. I love turn-based RPGs like Divinity: OS, Fallout 1+2, and Arcanum, but I have never been able to really enjoy or git gud at Real Time With Pause (RTWP) combat like in Baldur's Gate, NWN, Pillars of Eternity, or Planescape.

How do I learn to love RTWP?

>> No.4365094

honestly it's not even worth it

>> No.4365102

You kinda just have to put up with it and find something else you like about the game, rtwp is just not very fun or even functional.

>> No.4365103

>>4365093
You have to use the strengths of the system to your advantage. Pause heavily during micromanagement, and let it play out during easy fights in real time.

Also are you playing BG 1, which that is a screenshot of? If so, kiting in real time is a hugely good strategy that the system permits. I've beaten sarevok with a solo character using kiting. You can pause during attacks if your clicking skills aren't quite good enough (mine aren't).

>> No.4365108

>>4365094
>>4365102
Don't do this to me anons.

>>4365103
Nah I just grabbed it off Google. Should I do BG1 first? I know you can transfer a character but desu I don't have 100 hours of give-a-fuck to dump into both games.

>> No.4365110

>>4365102
Highly disagree. The real time adds a great amount of tension to the game. Most encounters are quite unforgiving, and they come at you with the pause feature being your only breather. I believe it would have been a worse game in turn based. I base this off the fact that while there are great turn based AD&D games that I enjoy, none of them are as good as Baldur's Gate.

>> No.4365115

>>4365108
there are benefits to playing BG1 first, mostly the stat up tomes you can get, but you can also cheat those into BG2 if you really want

>> No.4365117

>>4365108
Well, you should try Baldur's Gate. If you don't like it, don't play it. The reason you get people who say different things is because the two games are somewhat different and many don't like both. Baldur's Gate is a game about exploring wildernesses and finding random dungeons and exploring them too. 2 is more narrative based, though it has better dungeons.

If you don't have dozens of hours, Baldur's Gate 2 definitely isn't the game for you. You'll want to explore every zone in it to get all the loot and character quests and it will run over 60 hours without the expansion.

Baldur's Gate 1 can be beaten in a few hours, but that's only if you know what you're doing. It'd be more like 30-40 if you are approaching it blind.

>> No.4365126

>>4365093
God, BIoware games take forever to beat with all the "go to 4 areas and find 4 mcguffins to unlock the next hub" bullshit. Prepare to slog through endless trash mobs.

Make sure to create an OP min-maxed character to save your sanity. Or just play a good game instead, I dunno.

>> No.4365128

>>4365117
Huh okay well I do like the exploration aspect, though I hear the balance in BG1 is way off. Still the struggle is with the RTWP system. I'm just not used to those systems, there's a lot going on at once and interrupting mages while trying to wrangle all the characters into the right places, getting backstabs done, etc.

>>4365126
I'm always open to hearing about good cRPGs. Classics are preferred but I'll do anything that'll play on a Linux toaster.

>> No.4365129

>>4365126
Neither of those games have that design.

>> No.4365130

>>4365110
Real time is fine but adding pause as a fundamental mechanic is just lazy as fuck, and shows a disregard for designing a proper system made for micromanaging combat in real time.

>> No.4365135

>>4365128
The real time with pause makes a lot of sense if you are used to playing games like Diablo or Stracraft, which came out around the same time. It feels pretty natural if you approach it that way.

Other anon is shitposting. The hub design was introduced in Kotor, Baldur's Gate doesn't use it.

If you haven't played it though, Shattered Lands is an amazing turn based RPG on MS-DOS. Super friendly user interface and awesome Dark Sun setting.

>> No.4365139

>>4365130
If it played at 50-75% speed, the pause wouldn't be necessary at all, but then travel would be a slog.

>> No.4365140

>>4365135
>The hub design was introduced in Kotor

NWN had it.

>> No.4365145

>>4365140
You are correct, sorry. I forgot about NWN because I didn't like it.

>> No.4365165

>>4365139
IIRC Baldur's Gate let you adjust combat speed. I may be mistaken though.

>> No.4365220

>>4365110
>>4365130
>>4365135
you guys know that the pause feature can be turned of in bg, right?
the game is designed to be perfectly playable without pause and I did this with success

>> No.4365224

>>4365220
excuse me, maybe I didn't say it right: you can turn on auto-pause for all kinds of events and then just stick to it (maybe you can even turn off the normal pause, idk, you can just not use it in any case)

>> No.4365225

>>4365220
How?

>> No.4365234

>>4365225
as I said, turn on all automatic pauses, than it's basically round based

>> No.4365242

>>4365234
Oh, well that's a given, I don't play it with auto-pause.

>> No.4365246

>>4365242
so do you want to play it turn-based or real time? what I'm saying is that both is possible

>> No.4365253

>>4365246
I play it with manual pausing. I'm aware that you can play it without ever pausing, I might try it some time. I generally try to play without dying though, and that requires some intense micromanaging in spots (especially the final battle).

>> No.4365271

>>4365128
>I'm always open to hearing about good cRPGs
check out the Dark Sun games, they're a pretty good "missing link" between older SSI fare and some of the heavier C&C games of the late 90s and early 2000s. Plus it's Dark Sun

>> No.4365314

>>4365271
>pretty good
Maybe as an average. Shattered Lands is one of the top 5 D&D games ever made. Ravager is...not.

>> No.4365327

>>4365093
>NWN, Pillars of Eternity
That's because they're not very good games
Getting over the early hump in BG2 is pretty vital, the game drags on until you leave the main city.
You might also want to start a multiplayer game and just create your own party since the bioware companions are pretty shit

BG2 is pretty overrated on the whole but it's easy to access and it looks pretty compared to stuff like goldbox

>> No.4365331

>>4365327
I'm just looking for a good RPG that will play well on my Linux laptop.

>> No.4365332

>>4365253
yeah but if you turn on all automatic pauses, the game pauses whenever there's something new showing up in the log. that's faster than you could do it manually

>> No.4365334

>>4365331
Not sure about the linux portion, but check out Geneforge and Avernum and as mentioned earlier goldbox games
They're all on gog so they're pretty easy to pirate

>> No.4365336

>>4365332
Its faster, but a blanket rule that gets annoying. I only pause to micro, so if I don't need to micro I don't need the pause.

>> No.4365563

>>4365117
Did we play the same game.

BG1 is about rushing through the main story and ignoring everything else because the wilderness is 99% empty space and insanely tedious to crawl through. Playing it as an exploration game is as fully psycho as looting every house in BG2.

>> No.4365574

I've heard that it's better to mod the classic game than to use the enhanced edition, what mods are necessary to fix bugs/compatibility issues and support high res?

>> No.4365804

>>4365093
if you don't love it already, why bother? just stick to your new games

>> No.4365824

>>4365331
Basically every 90s/early 00s CRPG runs perfectly in Wine. I played Arcanum from start to finish on Linux earlier this year with no issues.

>> No.4365845

>>4365094
pretty much this, weeks ago I started a thread, expressing my dissapoint about this "cult" game.

Is just a shitty combat system with boring story line and terrible level design.

I know there's a lot of things that made this a great starting point for other games, but those games just evolve the combat and gameplay to create a fun game, and create excelent story lines and great companions, Dragon Age Origins is a perfect example, ¿¿is DAO a "succesor"?? no fucking way, DAO is excellent by itself, only took elements from BG and whatever makes you happy (Tolkien, Martin, Blizzard, whothefuckcares...) and reach a hole new level.

BG feels odd, weird, and terribly aged, like all that kind of games, is not that kind of retro that you can enjoy as casual, not even a good fan of RPG, is fucking boring and FUCKING ANNOYING.

>> No.4365847

>>4365139
>but then travel would be a slog.
travel feels dumb even with 200%

>> No.4365849

>>4365563
fuck is even worst than diablo...fuck that

>> No.4365918

>>4365845
DAO is ok, but super shallow by comparison. The basic tank and spank design means that encounters have to be approached basically all the same way.

>> No.4365940

>>4365845
DA:O is average at best. I get bored about halfway through.

>> No.4365960
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4365960

>>4365918
yeah I know what you mean, but that's only if you don't switch your companions, and only if you have discover the best modes and attacks, and whats the best tactic for each homie.

>>4365940
cmon dude, try MODS, they are fucking amazing. or share your opinion, what's the best for you? also, name a better Bitch than morrigan??

>> No.4365971
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4365971

>>4365918
hey do you ever tried without potions and low armors and weapons??? now that's hardcore, There's a Mod, Nightmare+, fucking good, gives enemies more power and resistance, sometimes they can blast you in 2 or 3 strikes.

>> No.4365976
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4365976

>>4365845
>DAO is excellent by itself
It's mediocre at best and it has fucking mmo combat, even worse than the IE combat

>> No.4365978
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4365978

>>4365976
Ok...go on

>> No.4365994

>>4365978
It isn't a case of that
It's a mediocre but polished game released when every other crpg was dogshit. However, that doesn't make it a good game, just a mediocre attempt at recreating a "new" BG by bioware. It's leagues better than all of the other dragon age games and bioware really squandered what potential the series had. A lot like ME desu in that it was mediocre but had a lot of potential for improvement in future versions, improvement that never came

>> No.4366035

>>4365994
I kind of agree in terms of improvement of the sequels of DA. but comparing to ME, fuck no, it has a better combat system, maybe is way basic and simpler, but it was the best at that times, or are trying to say that what, LoL or WoW have better combat system?? cause, it seems you wanna go around that, or even worst, trying to say that indeed BG's got a good combat??

Still waiting for a real answer, you know, open for suggestions, fuck BG, give a nice RPG (not shitty japanese).

I was lately tring Guild Wars 2, Tera and Path Of Exile, shit I got a huge dissapoint of those games, Boredom anywhere, now that's what I can call "mediocre" games.

I was enjoying AoC Multiplayer but Voobly lately is not doing well with those shitty upgrades, patch 1.5 really sucks.

>> No.4366041

>>4366035
>but it was the best at that times,
sry, my bad, I was meaning, the best in those times, pardon my poor language, still Morrigan is the best

>> No.4366046

Try these games instead:

http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6866630-RPG-Codex-%28Official%29/

>> No.4366052

>>4366046
thx to /vr/ I made the huge mistake to try BG, now I go around with this link, I found this:

>PlanetScape Torment
>"The legendary RPG from Chris Avellone, with a story and setting that are still unsurpassed. Beamdog's version offers visual improvements but no new content, making it their most faithful rerelease."
Man I was trying BG and downloading PT, fuck fuck fuck, I deleted that trash and stop downloading that other bunch of crap.

I found like 50 games, dude, get your shit together, maybe Witcher 3 and Dark Souls.

>> No.4366059

>>4365093
The important part to understand is that for Infinity games or NWN, it's really a turn-based game pretending to be real time.

It's still turn-based under the hood, and you gotta remember to 'feel' the time characters spend between their actions and pause as soon as they stop doing their current action to 'queue' the next one.

Also you can use autopause feature in BG for almost 'turn-like' experience, just turn on autopause for every single event.

>> No.4366060

>>4366052
What are you talking about? BG and PT are great.
If BG is kicking your ass with difficulty, feel free to lower it. I personally recommend easiest setting that isn't Story Mode, it will still be somewhat challenging but not cockblockingly so.

>> No.4366062

>>4366052
FWIW, PS:T runs on the same engine as BG, but there's very little combat, it's a dialog heavy game where you get a shit ton of dialog options and they all affect something. It's also the best looking game on this engine with large, detailed sprites and really beautiful backgrounds. The enhanced edition works hassle free on Windows 10 and doesn't require any extra patching. Give it a go.

>> No.4366063

>>4366060
BG is trash with all the grinding and fighting endless trash mobs, and cookie-cutter generic high fantasy dialog with goody two shoes and asshole jerk being the only responses you can choose.

>> No.4366068

>>4366059
Who started this "rtwp is really tb under the hood" meme, it pisses me off so much. TB is like chess, faggot. Every single character takes their own turn while the whole world waits for them and does absolutely nothing. Maybe try playing some actual TB game before you start spewing nonsense.

>> No.4366076
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4366076

>>4366060
>What are you talking about? BG and PT are great.
>MFW
Pic Related

I'm talking that we got completely hyped with full of crap with those games.

not talking about difficult, I'm talking of how absurd is that combat system, the paused-self-auto-manual-shit-random-packOfDicks gameplaying with the main character and the companions is just stupid and pathetic, even diablo is better than that.

>>4366062
still is really look-a-like BG, but you got my curious, I'm finding a really cool story, now I already spoiled and ruined that game for me, only cause I was thinking, well what could I be losing between point A and point B, lets go and read the ending...doesn't seem interesting.

I already tried a few years ago PS:T, I beat the first two zombies and I was out of the zombie lab...and well, I got bored, but I was young. what do you say dude, PS:T is garbage like BG???

>> No.4366081

>>4366068
>TB?
TB?

>> No.4366108

>>4366081
tuberculosis games. basically a sim-doctor game in a medieval setting.

>> No.4366120

>>4366068
What the fuck are you talking about?

I'm not talking about ALL games, but characters in Infinity games and NWN literally do their actions, and then wait a couple second for their 'next turn'. If it was fully real time, there wouldn't be that artificial delay.

>> No.4366127

>>4366120
So they wait some time before doing their next action, how the fuck does it make it TB? Everyone's doing their actions at the same time.

>> No.4366129
File: 84 KB, 400x400, uh-oh-retard-alert.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4366129

>>4366108
>TB = stupid joke nobody cares
>sim-doctor game in a medieval setting
MFW

>> No.4366150

>>4366120
It's true, the game even has initiative rolls.

>> No.4366152

>>4366150
yeah and because of that "initiative" is one of the main reasons it sucked

>> No.4366775

>>4365845
sorry if you didn't like it, but I did and so did thousands of others. Why can't you just accept that?
Maybe there are people who don't need a perfect combat system but look for other qualities.

>> No.4366779

>>4366035
OP here, Divinity: OS and OS2 are great. Pillars of Eternity was also the TRVE Baldur's Gate successor and does a very good job at that. Might just start a replay of that game since I understand it better and it's been so long.

>>4366052
I've literally 100% Witcher 3, and own all the Dark Souls.

I'm looking for games that run lighter than AAA titles though, and I do enjoy RPGs with varied Choice & Consequence, good writing, and crunchy combat systems.

>> No.4366781

>>4366127
if you have turned on all auto pauses than it's basically turn-based because the turns in which actions can be done are global

>> No.4366786

the best about Baldurs Gate was playing it coop, that was severly addictive. I played it through on my own, too, but that wasn't comparable

>> No.4366807

>>4366786
tfw no fellow autists willing to play through a 20 year old game with me

>> No.4366827

>>4366775
I do, you can go around and play it, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't, I'm just saying it sucks, but hey, there are people who like and love garbage. Enjoy your crap game.

>> No.4366829

>>4366779
AAA means high budget, not good graphics.

>> No.4366832

>>4366807
I have noone either bc the friends I had now turned serious and have family and jobs. But hose were good times, I'll always treasure them

>> No.4366834

>>4366829
Also he thinks Dark Souls is Triple A LOL. The Japs rarely do triple A budget.

>> No.4366892

>>4366076
>read the ending
Why even play video games then? Just find another hobby. Every game will be "shit" to you if you convince yourself so.

>> No.4366894

>>4366829
>>4366834
Nigga they get huge releases, have big budgets, are multiplatform, and are wildly popular.

The Souls games can be considered AAA by now.

>> No.4366895

>>4366834
AAA has no definition, anyone can call a game AAA. This is why someone needs to trademark the term and set a strict definition for its use (along with fees for using it).

>> No.4366912

>>4366894
Triple A refers to budget not to popularity or how many fucking platforms they are on or any other factor.

I doubt a game which has limited to no voice acting, very stiff and simple animations, and didn't even fucking make their own physics engine is a top end budget.

The Japs don't go for the high budget stuff: FF15 being one of the few exceptions.

>considered AAA
God you're an idiot. argueing that that a game's budget is "considered high" if it's popular. I guess we can consider Kia's a high budget car since they sell so much huh?

>> No.4366915

>>4366912
y'know I have to say /vr/ is far more autistic than /v/ or /vg/.

>> No.4366939

>>4366892
that's only in case in terms of see what's going on quickly, do you really think I'm gonna play any trash you guys throw us at all?

When you found a good game that you actually can enjoy, you go deeply and stuck around in that, but in case of garbage like BG and PS:T, fuck, I just want to check how stupid was, and well, those were really autistic games

>Just find another hobby.
kind of found it, is called bait... you won all the hit points sir.

>>4366912
blah blah blah

>> No.4367149

>>4366779
>TRVE Baldur's Gate
The biggest issues with PoE was that it missed the great parts about BG, which was fun, intelligent encounter design (BG would have you walk around dungeons with secret walls suddenly opening on your party and springing dangerous shit; the traps were more interesting, and they were generally more memorable) and giving you fun options for character creation; everything felt homogenized, and Sawyer's vaunted striving for balance in all things didn't really pan out. PoE felt really bland in comparison to BG2.

Generally, I love BG (and IWD) because the (stripped down a bit) AD&D system they work under is extremely replayable and fun for theorycrafting. At this point, I mostly play those games to fuck around with different builds and parties and enjoy the party-on-party setpieces and encounters against tough monsters and spellcasters.

Mods like Sword Coast Stratagems make BG a delight to play for a tactician, as the enemy AI is vastly improved.

Also, I never had any issue with RTWP, but I would abuse the Pause function very lively - I would pretty much spam it every few seconds, especially after taking damage or if some enemy started moving or casting a spell. The various autopause functions certainly help, as you definitely want to have the Autopause: Enemy Started Casting function on, so that you can immediately counter with Magic Missile or whatever.

>> No.4367171

Can't stand these games. Counter-intuitive to the bone, with literally 100 hours pre-requisite to learn what which spell does. Fuck games where I must waste time learning outside the gameplay. When BG2 in screen message requested I read that 500 page manual, I promptly deinstalled it. That and shit called Irenicus Dungeon every time you want to replay.

>> No.4367187

>>4367171
You can right-click a spell to read its description, and the manual is mostly information that is already in the game in the first place. Over half of it covers spells and a chunk is setting info.

>> No.4367201

>>4367171
>Fuck games where I must waste time learning outside the gameplay
BG2 can be completed with just the most basic information. You really don't have to be a genius to figure out how to operate a Fireball or Haste.
>When BG2 in screen message requested I read that 500 page manual
BG2 doesn't even force you to read the manual, like, you know, most pre-Black Isle RPGs did. What next? We shitting on Betrayal at Krondor?

>> No.4367290

>>4366939
>garbage like BG and PS:T

LOL, too big of a bait. Those are universally acclaimed games. Even the grognards on niche RPG forums love the fuck out of PS:T.

Keep on being retarded, I guess.

>> No.4367306

>>4367290
>Even the grognards on niche RPG forums love the fuck out of PS:T.
Well it is a very good book

>> No.4367679

I've been playing the first Baldur's Gate recently and god damn the pathfinding is horrible.

>> No.4367937

>>4367306
I know you're baiting, but a lot of people play RPGs basically so they can experience an interactive fantasy book.

>> No.4368398

>>4365093
>How do I learn to love RTWP?
You don't. It's a terrible system.

Baldur's Gate 2 is literally only fun if you abuse one of the many cheesy strategies in the game

>> No.4368942

>>4366827

Players who are actually good at the game agree that it's a good game, only bad players call it crap. Stop being a bad player.

>> No.4369607

>>4367679
that's true, but Idk if it's horrible for its time

>> No.4369621

>>4367679
One of the best features of the enhanced Beamdog editions is completely revamped pathfinding. Totally worth it.

>> No.4369670

>>4367679
>>4369607
Pathfinding was variable depending on how much memory you devoted to it. It went from awful even for the time, to subpar. It is fixed by simply not telling your dudes to travel entirely across the screen in one go.

>> No.4369892

>>4369670
That doesn't really fix it when you're trying to go through narrow mazes. Firewine Ruins or whatever is nearly unplayable.

>> No.4369937

Any BG experts around here? I want to dual class fighter/mage but have no idea when I should do it. I'm currently level 6 in the first game (about to hit 7). Should I dual at level 7 or should I wait until I import the character to BG2 and dual then?

>> No.4370160

>>4369937
People generally wait for 9, when you get another proficiency point to have grandmastery in your weapon of choice, and to maximize the fighter's D10 hit die. It's still early enough that you get your fighter levels back super quickly, what with BG2's much faster XP progression.

You can wait all the way until 13 to have the final .5 APR too, but that takes absolutely forever unless you're solo.

>> No.4370179

>>4370160
So basically I shouldn't worry about dualing until BG2?

>> No.4370297

>>4370179
Correct.

Honestly, if you want to be a fighter mage, I'd suggest the Blade bard kit. It is super fun and gives you that sort of playstyle. You can also start from the beginning as a Fighter/Mage elf.

Dual classing is not very good. The end result is technically the strongest, but you have to basically waste the entire game getting there. Spending the whole first two games playing subpar character so that you are optimized for the underwhelming Throne of Bhaal campaign is frankly silly.

>> No.4370306

>>4370179
Pretty much. If you go with doing so at level 9, you'll begin almost immediately after leaving the BG2 starting dungeon, and get your fighter levels back after a handful of quests. You can also hold off on learning any scrolls you find until after dual classing to make it even faster.

>> No.4370821

>>4366786
I've always wondered how that works

How does pausing work with two people? Can you both go around the map on your own, or is there still one "screen"?

>> No.4370941

>>4370821
Pausing privileges are set by the host. Players can move about independently just like a single player could move his party anywhere..

>> No.4371749

>>4366063
>BG is trash with all the grinding
>the same game that was notorious for slapping you with a level cap if you bother with at least 1/3 of the side quests isconsidered grindy these days
wat
just
wat

>> No.4372226

>>4371749
If he's trying to dual class and grind up then mayb but also mayb he doesn't know that's not mandatory?

>> No.4372880

bump

>> No.4374831

Does Aeris dies?

>> No.4375845
File: 1.89 MB, 800x600, vnmvnm.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4375845

Fighter/Mage/Assassin All Night

>> No.4375860

>>4370941
If you want to tease the other player you can talk to him while he talks to NGO or buys stuff

>> No.4375862

>>4375845
I tried to make it with a single mage once, I failed to survive in the sewers

>> No.4377709

This thread is packed to the fucking rafters with casuals and morons with astoundingly shitty taste.

>> No.4377808

Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate?

For me, Icewind Dale.

>> No.4377819

>>4377808
Icewind Dale relies too much on massive encounters of mooks, whereas BG is smaller encounters of enemies with nasty special abilities. Prefer the latter. The AI tweak in IWD where enemies target lower AC automatically makes thiefs really bad in melee, too. IWD is still great for the music and graphics, though. The renders are better than BG's.

>> No.4377919

Any RPGs that are real time with no pause RTS style? Like the Rexxar campaign in WC3.

>> No.4379603

>>4365563
Captain Autismo over here

I just started playing this game a couple months ago and ive put more hours into it then any other game as of late... For me it was the writing, the atmosphere etc that helped me enjoy it

really helped me get into the RTWP.. that said, as soon as I tried Grimrock 2 I havent touched Baldurs gate (its been a week)