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/vr/ - Retro Games


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4363878 No.4363878 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

How does /vr/ feel about save states?

>> No.4363884

I don't feel strongly for or against them. Use 'em if you want to.

>> No.4363890

>>4363878
Depends on the game. Good to just beat games honestly.

>> No.4363901

>>4363878
>>4363890
>>4363884
You guys need to kill yourselves

>> No.4363905

>>4363901
Hard pass. They haven't developed any IRL savestates yet.

>> No.4363920
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4363920

Good games don't need them. Good games with bad sections do.

I won't let a good game be ruined by one idiot's incompetence.

>> No.4363924
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4363924

>>4363878
cheats. doesnt count as beating the game if you use them. stop being a filthy casual

>> No.4363936

>>4363878
If you save scum with them, its the save thing as using cheat codes. If you use them to just not have to restart games when ya leave, they're fine, I look at it like leaving the console on while you sleep.

>> No.4363941
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4363941

I'll save state before boss fights to save time.

>> No.4363945

>>4363901
triggered

>> No.4363947
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4363947

>>4363878
Basically cheating. Saying you beat the game while using the save states for anything other than an "Oh shit" emergency or to "leave the console on overnight" is always 100% cheating.

>> No.4363949

You didn't beat the game if you've used them. I think it's cheating. It's on the same level as Game Genie.

>> No.4363951

1) get up to a hard part
2) savestate
3) drill the hard part until you're good at it
4) repeat 1-3 until game is beaten

5) now attempt a real playthrough

>> No.4363971

>>4363878
Only thing I feel about save states is annoyed that underage keep asking how everyone feels about them

>> No.4363973

>>4363951
But that would ruin your first playthrough. Also if the game is more than 10 hours long, let's be honest, you ain't playing that again.

>> No.4363982

>>4363884
This.

You don't have to.
If you want to, that's your prerogative. Ultimately, it's not something to really whine about.

>> No.4364001

It's cheating, but cheating is awesome

>> No.4364025

>>4363878
Destroy game atmosphere but still have fun with gameplay.
I think it better then use game genies or konami code.

>> No.4364046

>>4363878
I wish to have this option for all games.
You can jump right into the action without any loading screen bullshit, it's only bound by your hardware performance.
It's great for training your skills. You can quickly reproduce the exact situation.

>> No.4364167

Amazing for practicing hard games and skipping bullshit. Unfortunately abused by impatient fags who use them to turn every action game into Super Meat Boy.

>> No.4364176

>>4363878
I save state at the start of each level to work around the stupid limited lives mechanic.

Replaying the whole game from scratch if you fuck up is just stupid.

>> No.4364195

>>4363901
hard to argue you there fella

>> No.4364205

>>4364176
why are you here?

>> No.4364214

>>4363878
It feels good.

>> No.4364223

they don't really reduce the difficulty of a game but more the time required to beat a game.

>> No.4364227

>>4364205
To laugh at shitheads like you.

>> No.4364235

>>4364227
at least I can beat games without cheating

>> No.4364237

>>4364235
Too bad you can't find a job or make friends.

>> No.4364239

>>4364237
good projection loser

>> No.4364242

>>4364239
I know you are, but who am I?

>> No.4364246

>>4364242
about the level of intelligence one could expect from a cheater I guess

>> No.4364269

>>4363924
>>4363936
>>4363947
>>4363949
>>4364235
You do realize that even if you use save states, you'd still have to beat the game right? Besides, if a game becomes easy once you gain infinite lives/continues, chances are it wasn't all that hard in the first place.

>> No.4364276

>>4364269
You're responding to manchildren with some self assigned rules about games. Their reluctance or flat out hostility towards those who don't do things their way heavily implies they're on the spectrum.

The bottom line is- if it's a single player game, play the game however the fuck you want. The only persons experience you're changing is yours. Lowering your opinion of someone just because they don't play a single player game the way you want is really sad, but hey here I am at 6am posting on 4chan, so I'm probably as fucking autistic as they are. But at least I'm not saying people should die for playing a game differently than I would...

>> No.4364280

If a game support them I use them
If a console supports them I use them.
If I have to abandon game because of something I use them.

>> No.4364285

>>4363920
This. There's no enjoyment in playing the same 10-minute long easy section twenty times in a row only to get killed at the single hard part every time. Some games do benefit from making you replay the same section a few times, since you're training your muscle memory (for example, Mario games tend to 'condition' you into saving your powerups for longer), but often it's just needless time wasting.

Also, JRPGs with long, unskippable cutscenes before bosses. This wasn't a huge deal in the SNES era since you could just mash A through all the dialogue, but 3D RPGs often have this. Even these days they still haven't learned, I played the Octopath Traveler demo a week or two ago and had to watch the goddamn boss cutscene three times.

>> No.4364297

>>4363878
True gamers don't use save states. FACT!

>> No.4364301

>>4363878
I use them in games which don't support save files and have passwords instead. I don't savescum inside levels.
That's just a personal preference, and I don't really care how much you like to play your games. I will look down on you if you say you beat a game by doing that, though.

>> No.4364303

>>4364276
>self assigned rules

No, pretty sure those rules were assigned by the creators of the games, idiot, or else they would have included a save state feature into the original hardware and cartridges.

Someone who doesn't even have the capacity to put in any effort into their "hobby" is someone that is definitely worthy of having others opinion of them lowered.

>> No.4364314

>>4364301
Again, save states aren't going to help you actually beat the game and games that can actually say that they're hard are just as hard with infinite lives as they are with three.

>> No.4364315

>>4364223
That's not really true though.

Say that you're playing a shmup. You save state and move left, but get blown up by a bullet. You reload and move right instead, and don't die, so you cycle to the next save slot and savestate again, and repeat the process.

Basically you're skipping the part where you git gud and learn patterns/train your reflexes.

>> No.4364316

>>4364314
keep telling yourself that, but you're absolutely wrong. save states and pressing the rewind button aren't any different. you can't name a single hard game that isn't instantly trivialized by the rewind button.

>> No.4364317

>>4364303
>No, pretty sure those rules were assigned by the creators of the games, idiot, or else they would have included a save state feature into the original hardware and cartridges.
Save States were generally a PC thing though since consoles back then didn't have enough memory to allow you to save and load anywhere you wanted. I'm sure if old school consoles were as complex as the PC was back then, more devs would include save states there as well.

>> No.4364321

>>4364316
>you can't name a single hard game that isn't instantly trivialized by the rewind button.
Wizardry, Heroes of Might & Magic, XCOM...

>> No.4364323

>>4364321
>XCOM
>Miss due to RNG
>rewind and play the shot again until it hits

same with the others. you can just rewind and see what strategy the enemy uses, etc. it's the same as reading a walkthrough or constantly getting the best possible rolls with a cheat code.

>> No.4364324

>>4364269
>Besides, if a game becomes easy once you gain infinite lives/continues, chances are it wasn't all that hard in the first place.
What kind of insane twisted logic is this? If you remove consequences from mistakes, all games will become easy.

>> No.4364325

>>4364324
It's the cognitive dissonance of somebody that has a large list of games they've "beaten" that they use to convince themself they aren't really bad at games.

Which is completely fine. Just don't pretend like it's not cheating or that you're not terrible.

>> No.4364327

>>4364323
You've obviously never played XCOM before if you think that it's really that easy.

>> No.4364330

>>4364324
>>4364325
The consequences should be the fact that you're unable to progress to see the rest of the game, not in being sent back an arbitrary amount of distance so that you'd have to replay a section of the game that you could already beat.

Besides, you can grind for lives in so many games that used a lives system that it really becomes a test of patience rather than skill.

>> No.4364331

>>4364330
>>4364316
>you can't name a single hard game that isn't instantly trivialized by the rewind button

So is it just that there is no such thing as a hard game? That's just how good you are? I'm amazed, Anon. you might be the best gamer in the world.

Beating something once means you could potentially beat it again in one go therefore why bother even trying to do so?

>> No.4364334

>>4364331
Don't reply again or I'll find you and slap your face with my pecker.

>> No.4364336

>>4364330
Can you beat it though? Save scummers are typically helpless when deprived of their crutch because they haven't learned the game and instead brute forced it. Setting the player back forces you to learn and show what you've learned consistently. It also allows the games to give you a fair balanced challenge. A game with no punishment can only derive difficulty from bullshit pixel perfect precision and death traps because anything else can be brute forced.

>> No.4364337

>>4364330
Being able to pass an obstacle once means that the obstacle wasn't hard in the first place, therefore it's too easy to bother doing again. Is this how your brain works?

No consequences, no difficulty. It's that simple. Persistent calm execution is a very difficult to master skill. Something that you clearly lack and have no capability to develop. Which, like I said, is fine, just stop telling yourself that you're not cheating because it's kind of psychologically fucked up.

>> No.4364345

>>4364336
>Can you beat it though?
Well if I was able to beat it once, chances are I could probably do it again. I don't quite understand your position, so you're saying that because I use save states, it means that I'm just brute forcing my way through the game by default?
>>4364337
What's the difference between beating, say, Mario bros. using save states and beating Mario bros. after grinding hundreds of lives using the infinite 1-up trick? On that note, why do you automatically assume that because the game only allows you to make so many mistakes that the game becomes harder than a game that doesn't use lives?

>> No.4364348

>>4364345
>why do you automatically assume that because the game only allows you to make so many mistakes that the game becomes harder than a game that doesn't use lives?

I didn't say that it's not possible for a game without lives to be hard. But that is an entirely different thing than cheating in infinite lives into a game that was never meant to have infinite lives. This shouldn't be so hard for you to understand, dude. It's getting a little sad. And yes, surprise surprise, SMB1 does become incredibly easier after you grind out lives using the 1-up tricks.

The difference is the difficulty and intended play route. Deviating from the developers intended play routes could arguably be declared not truly beating the game because you didn't do it within the constraints of the games rules.

>> No.4364353

>>4364345
It also depends on how frequently you use save states.

It's defensible to use a save state at the start of a level, since that's basically just taking the grind out of the infinite lives trick. However, if you use multiple save states in the same level, for instance before a hard jump, you're really trivializing the game.

>> No.4364356

>>4364345
>Well if I was able to beat it once, chances are I could probably do it again.
Go put that assumption to the test. Fire up any difficult arcade game and play through it with while abusing save states. Then restart the game and try doing a full run without using save states. See if you'll be able to 1cc the game first try. You won't, you likely won't even get past the early levels. And yes, you're brute forcing it by default, unless you space out your save states enough so that you need to display consistency. Btw most games with lives don't have a 1-UP trick, that's a silly argument.

>> No.4364360

>>4364348
>But that is an entirely different thing than cheating in infinite lives into a game that was never meant to have infinite lives.
And yet, even with infinite lives, you'd still need to actually beat the game, which, if the game is actually hard, should be a hard fought victory that comes after dozens of deaths until you actually get better at the game.
>The difference is the difficulty and intended play route. Deviating from the developers intended play routes could arguably be declared not truly beating the game because you didn't do it within the constraints of the games rules.
If the game gives me 1) a 1-up everytime I stomp on a succession of enemies, 2) an enemy that doesn't die after it's stomped on, and 3) an enemy that bounces off walls, then how am I deviating from the path by utilizing these three elements? Besides, most Mario games have an infinite 1-up trick so at some point it had to have been intentional.

>> No.4364362

>>4364353
>However, if you use multiple save states in the same level, for instance before a hard jump, you're really trivializing the game.
You would still need to make that jump though and if you suck that hard at the game, save states aren't going to help you one way or another anyways.

>> No.4364364

>>4364360
The specific instance you're referring to was in fact unintended and was fixed in subsequent re-releases

>> No.4364365

>>4364362
>if you suck that hard at the game, save states aren't going to help you one way or another anyways

This is wrong dude. You have some serious mental issues going on.

Go read about cognitive dissonance. I'm leaving the thread now. Best of luck, dude.

>> No.4364367

>>4364360
Sure it may be intentional with Mario, who cares? Most games don't have an infinite 1-UP trick.

>> No.4364369

>>4364356
How exactly would it be my first try if I've already beaten it? You're silly anon.

>> No.4364372

>>4364362
Wrong, you can get past challenges through sheer luck if the game resets each time you make a mistake. Without even understanding what you did, and certainly not being able to repeat it with any consistency.

>> No.4364373

>>4364364
>The specific instance you're referring to was in fact unintended and was fixed in subsequent re-releases
Which is why it was included in practically every Mario game that didn't model itself after SM64?

>> No.4364376

>>4364365
>This is wrong dude.
How so? If you can't progress past a certain section of the game no matter how much you try, how exactly are save states going to help you?

Also, saying "cognitive dissonance" isn't an argument, neither is repeating it over and over again.

>> No.4364378

>>4364369
Trying very hard to ignore my actual point there. Obviously I meant first attempt at a full run without using save states, not your first encounter with the game.

>> No.4364379

>>4364376
Just pick a game you cheated on before and try to beat it without save states.

>> No.4364380

>>4364372
>Wrong, you can get past challenges through sheer luck if the game resets each time you make a mistake.
How exactly does that work? Because if I'm missing a jump due to a lack of skill, I'm going to keep missing that jump until I understand what I did wrong, unless you're talking about some sort of RNG shit.

>> No.4364382

>>4364378
Why exactly would I need to 1cc it though? It's not like I did a save state run without dying several times along the way.

>> No.4364384

>>4364379
>Cheated on
You make it seem as though I entered in a cheat code to skip to the final boss or something.

>> No.4364385

>>4364384
Still waiting for you to prove "I did it once, I could do it again normally".

Go ahead. Go beat a ""challenging"" game that you used save states in.

>> No.4364387

>>4364382
Because then you'd show that you did learn how to get past parts of the game, instead of stumbling into them thanks to dumb luck.
>>4364380
No, unless you're an actual retard you will change up your inputs. Eventually you'll find the right combination of inputs without even realizing why it worked.

>> No.4364392

>>4364385
Let's be honest with ourselves, the only way that either of us could prove that we'd beaten a game without save states is if we streamed our playthrough on some streaming service like twitch, so how exactly would we prove it one way or another aside from trusting one another at our word?

>> No.4364394

>>4364392
Anon I want you to try and beat Sonic 1 without using save states. It's really not that hard, go for 50 coins at the ends of the early levels especially and collect 50 coins in the stage itsself to get extra continues. good luck and have fun.

>> No.4364396

>>4364387
>Because then you'd show that you did learn how to get past parts of the game, instead of stumbling into them thanks to dumb luck.
Again, I didn't beat the game on one life the first time I beat it so why exactly would I need to do it here?
>No, unless you're an actual retard you will change up your inputs.
>Eventually you'll find the right combination of inputs without even realizing why it worked.
Isn't that just called just getting better at the game? Even children will change their strategy once it becomes clear that it's not working.

>> No.4364397

>>4364394
>>4364392
By the way play the original revision not the one that makes it easier by including spindashes and preventing the spikes insta death.

>> No.4364401

>>4364394
>>4364397
Again, how exactly would I prove it, short of streaming it online? I mean, I've beaten Sonic 1 before on a console but I'd have no way of proving it since the game doesn't exactly have a save feature, so we're kinda at an impasse here.

>> No.4364404

>>4364396
Because in order to rationalize using save states, you make the claim that you can beat difficult parts no problem therefore you don't want to waste time beating them again. If this is true, you should be able to 1cc (not a no death run, you're allowed to make mistakes) a game easily because you've already gotten through all those difficult parts before.

>> No.4364412

>>4364404
>Because in order to rationalize using save states, you make the claim that you can beat difficult parts no problem therefore you don't want to waste time beating them again.
No, I said that I shouldn't have to replay earlier sections of the game when the thing giving me the most trouble is the thing that's actively preventing me from making progress. Even then, are you saying that if you can beat a game without using save states then you'd be able to 1cc game easily?

>> No.4364419

>>4364412
>No, I said that I shouldn't have to replay earlier sections of the game when the thing giving me the most trouble is the thing that's actively preventing me from making progress
Even though you haven't really learned the earlier sections at all and still suck at them? Why?
>Even then, are you saying that if you can beat a game without using save states then you'd be able to 1cc game easily?
No but then I am not the one saying that if I got through something once, I can do it again no problem. There's a lot of difference between doing something once, and being able to do it consistently. The former can just be dumb luck, the latter requires practice and strategy.

>> No.4364430

>>4364419
>Even though you haven't really learned the earlier sections at all and still suck at them?
That's quite an assumption to make.
>No but then I am not the one saying that if I got through something once, I can do it again no problem.
I never said that I could do it no problem, I said that I could probably do it again.
>There's a lot of difference between doing something once, and being able to do it consistently.
>The former can just be dumb luck, the latter requires practice and strategy.
What games are you playing where you can theorhetically stumble through a level unscathed without learning what you did wrong?

>> No.4364434

>>4364314
>Again, save states aren't going to help you actually beat the game and games that can actually say that they're hard are just as hard with infinite lives as they are with three.
Sometimes I wonder what percentage of this board has played a video game before

>> No.4364439

>>4364434
Sometimes I wonder how many people on this board actually care about the things they're defending because the thing is good, rather than blind nostalgia.

>> No.4364443

>>4363878
I use them on jrpgs because I find losing an hour+ of progress really demoralizing.

>> No.4364456

>>4364430
>That's quite an assumption to make.
Perfectly normal assumption for any difficult game.
>I said that I could probably do it again.
A monkey could probably do it if given enough time. Do you really think this is what games should demand from the player?
>What games are you playing where you can theorhetically stumble through a level unscathed without learning what you did wrong?
Most action games, which is something you should know if you do legitimate playthroughs after savescumming through them. Even when you learn, the learning tends to be limited because it basically isolates the situation from the broader context. It also means you don't have to do things like carefully manage risk, you can simply deal with the hand the game gives you as long as the game isn't full of death traps.

>> No.4364468

>>4363878
Indifferent if they are used to avoid signing passwords.
Otherwise is a game breaker and you really didn't finish the game.
I found myself replaying most of the games I emulated 20 years ago because of this, I saved scummed and sometimes it shows.

>> No.4364469

>>4364362
That's absolutely wrong. The most recent game that I played that was like this was Super Mario 3D Land (not retro but the principles are the same). In the very last level (S8-Crown) there's a fair amount of difficult jumps that I could make every now and then, but not every time. If I'd used save states for this level I would've beaten it in five minutes, but I didn't, and now I can consistently beat it. Just because you made a jump once doesn't mean that you 'learned' how to do the jump, because if you tried it again you'd probably just fail again.

It is satisfying to gradually understand a platformer more and more every time you play. You get faster, more efficient, and tough jumps become more of a reflex and a 'feeling', like a skill that you learned. You don't get this kind of growth if you save scum, because you skip the 'repetitive' parts. Which is fine - Being good at Mario isn't gonna impress anyone if you put it on your resume. But your skill level is objectively very low. Just accept that, and either git gud or shut up.

Compare it to playing an instrument. Any child can learn to play 3-second segments of, say, Für Elise without having any piano classes, but learning to play the full song requires practice.

>> No.4364478

>>4364456
>Perfectly normal assumption for any difficult game.
You're assuming that if I used save states, it means that I didn't actually learn how to progress through the earlier sections, which is an incredibly pompous assumption to make based off one's personal opinion.
>Do you really think this is what games should demand from the player?
Are you still basing this on your misconception that I claimed that I could beat a game again, no problem? Because if it is then you really need to take a step back and realize that we're arguing two different things here.
>Most action games
Such as?
>Even when you learn, the learning tends to be limited because it basically isolates the situation from the broader context.
In what way?

>> No.4364485

>>4364469
>In the very last level (S8-Crown) there's a fair amount of difficult jumps that I could make every now and then, but not every time.
Unless the game purposefully changes the layout, there shouldn't be a reason not to make a difficult jump if you actually know what you're doing.
>But your skill level is objectively very low.
A very bold assumption to make.
>Compare it to playing an instrument.
How exactly does playing a video game equate to playing an instrument?

>> No.4364496

>>4364478
>You're assuming that if I used save states, it means that I didn't actually learn how to progress through the earlier sections
Now we're back to what we were talking about before. If you learned them, then surely you can beat them again with good consistency?
>Are you still basing this on your misconception that I claimed that I could beat a game again, no problem?
You didn't? Then what's all this about learning a section?
>Such as?
>In what way?
Ok, let's take Ghosts n Goblins as an example. Say you're fighting a red arremer and save stated mid fight. Now you can load the state and react to the patterns he gives you, perhaps form a plan which lets you beat him consistently. Maybe he always swoops down, or shoots a fireball, or charges as his first attack. But then you decide to do a legitimate run of the game and find out that none of your strategies are relevant, because his attacks depended on your positioning and actions you did before you saved. So while you may have learned how to deal with that specific situation using save states, it didn't really help you learn the game overall. This is an extreme example, but the idea applies to a lot of games.

>> No.4364503

It's cheating and ruins the experience.

Although save states and rewind features on official Virtual Console releases are okay since they've been officially implemented and endorsed by Nintendo.

>> No.4364504

>>4364269
I save scummed through mega man 1. Made the game piss easy as i always had full hp for boss fights and infinate lives. Didnt feel as id beaten it

>> No.4364505

>>4363878
I only use them to save my progress at a start of a new area or a new level.
Or if I have to stop playing suddebly for some reason.

Those I argue are perfectly acceptable times to use them.

Maybe also in a game like Ninja Gaiden after you've beaten one form of the final boss.

>> No.4364508

>>4364505
Any other time and you only cheat yourself.

>> No.4364514

>>4364496
>If you learned them, then surely you can beat them again with good consistency?
I probably could, assuming I didn't get too rusty since the last time I played or something.
>You didn't?
No, I said that I could probably beat a game that I had beaten once before again.
>Then what's all this about learning a section?
Figuring out why I keep dying to a specific part of the game and learning how to overcome said obstacle in order to complete the game.
>Ok, let's take Ghosts n Goblins as an example.
You really couldn't have picked a better game for your example? I mean, let's say that you figure out a way to deal with the red arremer in front of you, that's still not going to save you from later stages of the game where you're dealing with 2-4 of the bastards at once. Secondly, knowing the patterns to beat the boss in front of you is not the same as actually having the skill to capitalize on it, if it was then people could beat any game just by watching it on youtube.

>> No.4364519

>>4364504
If you can get to the boss room without taking a single point of damage then you've already mastered the game, or at least are proficient enough to avoid the bulk of the hazards.

>> No.4364536

>>4364485
It's a sequence of trained movements. The end goal of learning to play a song on an instrument is to be able to play that song from beginning to end. Similarly, the goal of a video game is for you to play its levels from beginning to end.

And unless you're a robot, making a jump once really does not mean that you'll be able to repeat it next time. You really argue as if you've never played a video game in your life. The point here is just that just because you know how to do all of the single things that make up a level does not mean that you're able to beat the level as a whole. Like, try to save scum your way through a typical arcade shmup. Enemy patterns are often identical for each playthrough. According to your logic, doing that once means you should be able to 1cc the game the next time you play, right? Can you do that?

>> No.4364539

>>4364514
>Secondly, knowing the patterns to beat the boss in front of you is not the same as actually having the skill to capitalize on it
Yes, that's my entire point, that skill comes from learning a game via repeated play, something that you won't have to do if you save/load states constantly and move on after a single sloppy victory. Also you can use the same strategy for both early and late game arremers. If you understand their AI you can beat them no matter where you meet them.

>> No.4364540

>>4364536
>And unless you're a robot, making a jump once really does not mean that you'll be able to repeat it next time.
Why? Because you lack consistency, it means that everyone else lacks consistency too?
>According to your logic, doing that once means you should be able to 1cc the game the next time you play, right?
Why do you keep putting words in my mouth and basing your argument off of what you think I said?

>> No.4364545

>>4364539
>that skill comes from learning a game via repeated play
Which is what you'd have to do if you actually wanted to make progress in the game, save states or no.
>If you understand their AI you can beat them no matter where you meet them.
At that point though it's just pattern recognition, which is something that you'd be doing anyways as a consequence of progressing through the game.

>> No.4364546

>>4364540
Yes all people lack consistency and have to practice to acquire it, this applies to you. If you think otherwise then you are either deluding yourself or haven't played anything challenging.

>> No.4364547

>>4364540
Well, you've already gotten past all the obstacles once, right? So you understand them? You should have no problem getting past them again, unless you lack consistency.

>> No.4364559

>>4364545
Nope, you don't have to get consistent at beating a challenge to progress. You have to clear it once. That's it. I can guarantee that you will kill every red arremer in the game long before you understand how to exploit their AI if you use save states

>> No.4364560

>>4364546
>Yes all people lack consistency and have to practice to acquire it
Which is something you'd have to do with or without save states.
>>4364547
>Well, you've already gotten past all the obstacles once, right? So you understand them?
Most likely, considering I managed to overcome them at least once before.
>You should have no problem getting past them again
I don't know about "no problem" but I should be able to beat it again sooner or later.

>> No.4364572

>>4364559
>I can guarantee that you will kill every red arremer in the game long before you understand how to exploit their AI if you use save states
If I can kill every red arremer in the game, doesn't that imply that I understand how to exploit their A.I. though? I mean, you can' exactly brute force them when you're playing a character who not only has lackluster movement options but also can only afford to get hit twice before dying.

>> No.4364574

>>4364560
>Which is something you'd have to do with or without save states
No, save states allow you to focus on later parts of games/levels without getting consistent at early parts. You might get consistent at simplistic challenges even when using save states but it's by no means something you HAVE to do.

>> No.4364583

>>4364572
You sure can, just reload until you get a nice pattern and move on. No need to learn how to make him do that nice pattern every time

>> No.4364591

>>4364574
>No, save states allow you to focus on later parts of games/levels without getting consistent at early parts.
Shouldn't your focus be on the parts of the game that are actually giving you trouble though? I mean, how much trouble is Level 1-1 in Mario Bros. going to give you when you've learned how to beat the final boss?

>> No.4364592

I used to be totally against save states. But the older I get, the more I understand how helpful they could be.

I've been playing through some old games on the Wii VC, and the ability to press the home button to create a save state I can come back to has come in handy a lot.

Sometimes I have obligations and need to be able to stop playing the game. It's nice to not have to leave the console on for hours at a time when it happens.

But I won't use them to gain an advantage in a game. If I die I want to experience the full punishment the game gives you when you fuck up.

>> No.4364594

>>4364591
If you can't beat a challenge consistently then it IS giving you trouble

>> No.4364595

>>4364583
>You sure can, just reload until you get a nice pattern and move on.
That's still pattern recognition, which is a thing that you'd have to learn to beat most games, with or without save states.

>> No.4364602

>>4364595
Are you being daft on purpose? It's pattern recognition yes, but it won't help you if you can't even trigger that pattern consistently because you don't understand how the AI works.

>> No.4364603

>>4364594
That doesn't answer the question. How much trouble is Level 1-1 in Mario Bros. going to give you when you've learned how to beat the final boss? For that matter, how much trouble is the first level in any game going to give you once you actually know how to play?

>> No.4364606

>>4364560
>sooner or later

And that's the issue, isn't it? Anyone can git gud at any given shmup if they put in time and practice, but since you haven't, you're not good at it.

>> No.4364608

>>4364603
Not much, but games consist of far morw than the first level and the final boss. Just because level 1 is easy doesn't mean level 10 is even though they are both easier than the final boss.

>> No.4364609

>>4364303
So you are saying its not cheap to save scum on pc games because they include that feature?

>> No.4364616

>>4364602
>It's pattern recognition yes, but it won't help you if you can't even trigger that pattern consistently because you don't understand how the AI works.
What?

>> No.4364619

>>4364606
>Anyone can git gud at any given shmup if they put in time and practice
Isn't this how it's supposed to work though? I mean, are you implying that you can beat any shmup without dying once?

>> No.4364621

>>4364608
>Not much
Exactly.
>Just because level 1 is easy doesn't mean level 10 is even though they are both easier than the final boss.
If I can beat the final boss though then it means that I gained enough skill to reach the final level, even if level 10 was much more difficult than level 1.

>> No.4364637

>>4364621
>If I can beat the final boss though then it means that I gained enough skill to reach the final level
Baseless assumption. With save states there is no guarantee that you have the skill, because you do not need to be able to beat any challenge consistently to continue. Unless you think clearing a challenge once means you're skilled which is absurd.

>> No.4364639

There is only one scenario where using save states is not blatant cheating: If a game has unlimited continues but no save function and you want to take a brake from playing without having to start from the very beginning.

>> No.4364642

>>4363878

No hard feelings agains them.
In the end the point of all games is to bring you fun and enjoyment, not some people on the internet, not you mum, YOURSELF. If you enjoy them ore with save states- go for it. Especially if you feel that doing that same part for the 50th time up to the part that gives you trouble really won't give you anything except annoyance. As a kid you had enough time to try over and over again but as an adult you probably don't wanna waste time on your emulator by repeating the same goddamn part the 40th time. I always use them before turning off the emulator in case the internal saving messes up and when I feel that now it is enough, after like 10-20 times that is usually the case, when I say that continuing further with this until I developed the muscle memory- not even skill, just pure memorization- is a waste of time. But i always try it several times before that, imho it is important to not use them too fast, however again if that is not how you think that's fine.

>> No.4364643

>>4363878
its Cheating

>> No.4364653

>>4364637
>With save states there is no guarantee that you have the skill, because you do not need to be able to beat any challenge consistently to continue.
How exactly could I have made progress if I wasn't skilled enough to overcome the challenge before me? We both beat the game, we both have the option to beat it again, and claiming that my victory is somehow less than yours for arbitrary reasons just makes you sound like a tryhard.

>> No.4364664

>>4364653
It comes down to whether or not you think being able to do one challenge once means you're skilled. Not only that, but the challenge will be isolated from the greater context of the rest of the level removing any psychological pressure among other aspects that affect performance. I don't think it can be called being skilled. Do you?

>> No.4364669

>>4364394
>coins
>Sonic
I want YOU to try and beat Sonic 1.

>> No.4364689

>>4364664
You can keep coming up with excuses and raising up your position but at the end of the day, we both overcame the same challenges, which means that we're both on the same level of skill.

>> No.4364708

>>4364303
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr80dducu80

You irl

>> No.4364716

>>4364689
By that logic your shitty savestate abusing playthrough is as much of a display of skill as a no death run

>> No.4364727

>>4364716
We both know that you're not capable of doing a no death run.

>> No.4364731

>>4364727
Ran out of arguments and started projecting I see

>> No.4364747

>>4364731
I'm just saying, unless you can do a no-death run, we'd both still be at about the same level of skill as one another. However, since neither of us were talking about a no-death run, which is an entirely different beast entirely than just beating the game, it's largely irrelevant to this conversation, so why even bring it up in the first place?

>> No.4364758

>>4364619
No, but I'm also not save scumming my way through them and telling everyone I beat the game fair and square.

The issue isn't that you use save states. That's fine - if that's how you can enjoy a game, feel free. The issue is that you somehow believe that you've got the same skill level as someone who gets through the game without using save states.

Honestly, you're being so obtuse about this whole thing that you're either mentally retarded or trolling.

>> No.4364767

>>4364758
>The issue is that you somehow believe that you've got the same skill level as someone who gets through the game without using save states.
The bigger issue here is how you think that me using save states puts me at a lower skill than someone who doesn't use save states by default. It would be like me claiming that anyone who can't beat a game blindfolded doesn't know how to play video games, even if I did have a point, there's no way to deliver said point without sounding like a tryhard.

We both beat the game fair and square and nothing you say is going to change that. Sorry.

>> No.4364769

>>4364747
>entirely different beast entirely

>> No.4364774

>>4364767
Your argument is shit.

>> No.4364775

>>4364767
>We both beat the game fair and square and nothing you say is going to change that. Sorry.

Wrong. Sorry. Keep telling yourself that, though, it's obviously working.

>> No.4364776

>>4364747
I've done no death runs, along with a lot of 1cc's and various challenge runs. This is why I know that there's a world of difference between clearing something once, and getting to a point where I can do it consistently. The former can be done in minutes with save states, the latter can easily take hours. It's not a different beast if you follow your own logic which disregards how good the performance is. Stop being so insecure.

>> No.4364791

>>4364774
And you're more than welcomed to have that opinion.
>>4364775
Wrong. Sorry. Keep telling yourself that, though, it's obviously working.
>>4364776
>I've done no death runs, along with a lot of 1cc's and various challenge runs.
Neat.

>> No.4364795

>>4364314
If infinite lives isn't any easier then why fucking bother?

>> No.4364819

I just approve of Savestates if you use them as some kind of save point between stages but NEVER for save scumming or mid-level.

Imagine you're playing something and you need to go or do something important.
Finish the level, save state and resume later.
Also as a quicksave in case you're in a hurry and the game is too slow.

>> No.4364824

>ITT: Muh consistency!
Nobody cares that you beat a game faggots, let alone if you've beaten the same game more than once.

>> No.4364843

>>4364824
t. assblasted cheater

>> No.4364847

>>4364843
>t. tryhard
You might as well be bragging about how many achievements you got on xbox live yo!

>> No.4364864

does being able to instantly undo any mistake make a game easier? it seems that this will go down as one of those baffling mysteries for the ages about which there can be no agreement.

>> No.4364868

>>4364819
This.
Lets take MMX for example. I believe its ok to save state in the level select screen. Thats basically the same as using passwords to get to a specific level/part of progress.

I will admit I did also use them to skip to Sigma 2's final form a few times. But only because I can beat Sigma 1 quite consistently but it takes a lot of time, and Sigma 2 is a little unfair if you haven't played the game to death to know exactly where to stand so that the shitty rolling shield you literally would never need to use anywhere else in the game can actually hit him but you also dont take damage from it.

>> No.4364876

>>4363878
There's nothing wrong with save states. It helps you progress further into the game.

>>4364843
>cheater
>nintendildo detected
There's nothing wrong with cheating. Just because Nintendo was against it and sued Galoob, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with cheating. You obviously never used a Game Genie or Game Shark. It's fun using those devices.

>> No.4364908

>ma original game
>kys casu
>i spend so much time being a nerd that i despise everyone who reach my level by cheating, it would mean i develop skills for nothing, where is my mommy

>> No.4364913

Nothing wrong with using them, but you can't go around saying "I beat the game fair and square" when you took a shortcut and save scummed.

That said, people who act like elitists over being objectively better at beating a game without assistance should get their heads out of their assess.

>> No.4364914

>>4364819
>NEVER for save scumming or mid-level
Still better than watching a Youtube vid
>elitism everywhere

>> No.4364929

>>4364913
I still don't see how any of this matters. People ITT are getting butthurt over people using save states like beating single player video games actually matters.

>> No.4365118

>>4364276
>play the game however the fuck you want
I'm pretty sure that no one had argued that you shouldn't.
But if you've finished the game while using save states, you have finished the game with cheats.
And you certainly haven't finished the game without cheating.
If that's your cup of tea - knock yourself out.

>> No.4365137

>>4364908
>reach my level
Level of skill?

>> No.4365178

If I'm playing a JRPG, and don't have time to go back to a save point, then I'll just make a save state and come back to it later. I don't think there's anything wrong with that sort of thing. It's pretty much the same deal as leaving a console on while you go somewhere.

It's only really lame when you start using it to retry stuff that you wouldn't normally be able to retry. That, I'm not a fan of, but if other people do it, I don't really care.

>> No.4365207
File: 666 KB, 1126x845, considerthefollowing.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4365207

>>4363924
>>4363947
>>4364235
>>4364246
Cheating is only bad in multiplayer games, because you're giving yourself an unfair advantage over the other players. There is no sensible reason to oppose people using cheats in their single player games.

>> No.4365217

I used to use savestates in some games, but now I only use them when I have to go do something. What I want to know is if people think the glitch in Sonic 2 to get tons of lives counts as cheating?

>> No.4365283

>>4363878

I feel like they're good for adults who have busy lives and can't waste their finite time with trial and error bullshit, but at the same time it shouldn't be abused, and are absolutely good for not losing progress when you need to step away, it's the same as leaving your game on indefinitely.

Nothing wrong with them.

>> No.4365295

>>4365283
>adults shouldn't waste their time playing a game the way it's meant to be played and therefore extending the life of the title and the value of their purchase but should instead go out of their way to devalue their investment in both entertainment media and personal achievement

>> No.4365326

>>4365178
>I don't think there's anything wrong with that sort of thing.
That's cheating. And yes, there's nothing wrong with cheating, especially if you derive more fun from the game because of it.

>> No.4365335

>>4364669
fuck off it was 7:30 am

>> No.4365338

>>4365326
it's the same thing as leaving his console on as he gets up. so no, that's not cheating unless he used that save to undo mistakes that he made later instead of loading a proper in-game save.

>> No.4365339

>>4365283
This adult excuse is really dumb. If all said adult wanted to do was turn their brain off they should be watching TV or a movie.

>> No.4365348

>>4365295
>>4365339
>People should waste their time because my time is worthless.
t. NEET

>> No.4365356

>>4365348
>claim to like something
>actually don't like one of the most defining characteristics of said thing
>claim anyone who doesn't cheat like you do is merely a NEET loser nerd poopie head!

so I'm guessing this whole "adult" argument doesn't apply to you?

>> No.4365357

>>4365338
>it's the same thing as leaving his console on as he gets up
Practically, yes. Technically, no, it's not.
>that's not cheating unless he used that save to undo mistakes that he made later instead of loading a proper in-game save
I see where you're coming from, but no. It is. It's just this type of cheating doesn't detract from the original gameplay experience.
Basically, it's cheating to obtain convenience. As I've said, nothing wrong with that.

>> No.4365362

>>4365357
I mean you can say it's only technically the same but would it be functionally any different in any way from the program putting itsself in a supressed sleep state where all emulation is frozen? like opening the f1 menu and minimizing? All it does is save energy.

I get where you're coming from but it's overly pedantic.

>> No.4365363

>>4365356
>Defining characteristic of video games is wasting time.
>If you don't waste your time like me, you obviously don't enjoy video games that much!
t. tryhard NEET

>> No.4365369

>>4365362
You gotta understand anon, video games are probably the only thing he has to be proud of and if you take that away, he literally has nothing.

>> No.4365370

>>4365363
You have to be 18 years or older to post on 4chan.

>> No.4365372

>>4363878
I like to play games as if I were playing them on the original console. Beating a game with save states does not count as a legitimate win by my standards.

>> No.4365375

>>4365370
>Oh no, he called me a tryhard NEET
>f-f-f-fucking underaged!
Loving Every Laugh faggot, I can smell the bitter tears from here.

>> No.4365378

>>4365375

You have to be 18 years or older to post on 4chan.

>> No.4365380
File: 191 KB, 1090x680, 55803-Hydlide_(USA)-1496283795.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4365380

>>4365295
>tired of quick and easy modern games that can be beaten within a reasonable amount of time
>Expect a real mans challenge
>Go on a quest to find the oldest, hardest NES game from an era where games were engineered to be hard out of necessity in order to extend the play time
>Never use a walkthrough even though they are plentiful and easy to access in modern times
>Practically get slapped in the face by a wet walkthrough caught in a draft on the way to your work
>at lunch
>Have to plug your ears around office chatter from other employees and shout SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! as you hurry past them
>Leave work early for fear a freak electrical storm could strike your house and spontaneously generate an impossible, anomalous save state on your NES cartridge
>Make it all they way home and let out a sigh of relief as you punch in the 128 bit passcode to your man dungeon
>sit down in front of your vintage SONY crt and remove your still sealed CIB Hylide with meticulously placed wires between the atoms of the plastic wrapper to bridge the connectors to an actual NES without having to remove it
>Let out a single tear as you boot the game up and whisper "the way it was intended"

>> No.4365386

>I have a job, therefore it's ok for me to cheat in video games, and in fact, anyone who doesn't cheat in video games doesn't have a job
This was never a good argument and there is no actual connection between save state usage and employment status.

>> No.4365390

>>4365378
>f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-fucking underaged!
Mmm yes, your bitter tears are delicious!

>> No.4365391

>>4363878
I feel like they save the state of the game.

>> No.4365393

>>4365362
Because it is overly pedantic subject in the nutshell.
Suppose that there's a cheat code in the game which changes an animation of some basic attack and nothing else. Nothing.
And you've beaten the game like that.
Yes, you've cheated while beating the game. Yes, you're perfectly capable to beat it without cheating. Yes, you don't need to prove it to yourself: it would feel exactly the same way if you beat the same game without cheating.
I think the nature of a question is wrong. Better question yet: did you cheat yourself?
Mastering the mechanics and using your wit to outsmart the obstacles is often an essential part of the experience.
If you've used something like infinite health, beaten the game this way and received no satisfaction whatsoever, you've cheated *yourself*, and, in my opinion, this situation realllly blows.

>> No.4365394

>>4365390
>can't be bothered to put any effort into my pass-time, hobby, or passion
>anybody who does is a NEET

mental & emotional problems f a m

>> No.4365398

>>4365386
>You should only play single player games the way I think they should be played, otherwise you're not actually playing the game and are just pretending to have beaten the game because I said so.
Yes friend, whatever you say.

>> No.4365410

>>4365394
It's really easy to not give a shit about time when your time is already worthless f a m.

>> No.4365412

>>4365410
>can't be bothered to put any effort into my pass-time, hobby, or passion
>anybody who does is a NEET with worthless time

>> No.4365417

>>4365412
Tell me how many people you've impressed by telling them how "effort" you put into your hobby. Less than 0? Because nobody gives a shit? How would'a thunk amirite gentlemen?

>> No.4365418

Couldn't care less about about them or the people that use them. I personally don't use them, but if people want to use them that's on them. They can enjoy a game anyway they want as long as they don't bother me.

>> No.4365421

>>4365417
How much effort you're willing to put into something you supposedly love says a lot about you personally. Your time is so valuable you can't be bothered to actually play a game, yet you're here defending your cognitive dissonance and lack of skill/patience/persistence. Really made me think.

>> No.4365427

Savestates are for games you wanna get good at.

>> No.4365434

>>4365421
>How much effort you're willing to put into something you supposedly love says a lot about you personally
Man, where would be without Armchair Psychologist over here to help set the record straight?

>> No.4365441

>>4365421
>He can tell all this from someone using save states.
Man, if only you used this deductive reasoning on something that was actually useful.

>> No.4365459

>>4365434
Yeah, actually you're right. That's my own original thought. I made it up!

>> No.4365720

>>4365417
Do you only put effort into things because they'd be impressive to others you passionless cunt? Love how you're this assmad just because people pointed out the fact that you're not as skilled as people who don't cheat. Without even judging you initially lol

>> No.4365767

>>4365720
>Do you only put effort into things because they'd be impressive to others you passionless cunt?
No, but then again I also don't try to brag about my talents either, especially not on an African Apple Meet where anyone can claim to have done anything.

I mean, for all we know, you also use save states and are just arguing for the sake of (you)'s

>> No.4365785

>>4363878
Perfectly viable tool that apparently makes tryhards mad as fuck whenever they're mentioned.

>> No.4365808

>>4365767
Nobody's bragging though. The posters here repeatedly stated that they don't care if you use save states, but they call it what it is which is cheating. If pointing out facts is bragging to you then you're very sensitive indeed

>> No.4365818

>>4365808
>The posters here repeatedly stated that they don't care if you use save states, but they call it what it is which is cheating
They can call it whatever they want but that doesn't mean that it's actually cheating one way or another. Also, no facts have been stated ITT, it's just hot opinions being thrown around for e-cred on an anonymous image board.

>> No.4365819

>>4365818
Facts? You want facts that it's cheating? How stupid are you?

>> No.4365820

>>4365818
Here's a fact for you: it trivializes literally any game. It's cheating. Get a fucking grip, loser.

>> No.4365834

>>4365818
8/10. Solid work, you must have a nice collection of (You)'s by now

>> No.4365835

>>4365819
You're the one claiming that posters ITT have been "pointing out facts," when all they've done is spout opinions. There's not one fact being spouted ITT, no matter how much you want people to believe otherwise.
>>4365820
>Here's my opinion: it trivializes literally any game.
FTFY

>> No.4365848

>>4365835
Prove there is a game it doesn't trivialize. You can't.

>> No.4365850

>>4365848
I guess it wouldn't trivialize games where you can constantly get into unwinnable situations based on your early actions. But even then it makes them much easier.

>> No.4365853

>>4365848
>Proving an opinion
You rode the short bus alot as a child huh? You can JUSTIFY an opinion, but otherwise there's nothing to prove one way or another.

>> No.4365856

>>4365853
Prove there is a game it doesn't trivialize. You still haven't. A game becoming trivialized isn't an opinion.

>> No.4365864

>>4365856
>A game becoming trivialized isn't an opinion.
Uh sweetie, yes it is. Have you forgotten kindergarten?

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/factsopinions.html

>> No.4365869

>>4365864
So you admit you're so shit that no matter how much you cheat a game never becomes trivial for you because you're that bad? Thank you for explaining Anon.

The thread can be closed now.

>> No.4365878

>>4365869
Typical, the moment your fee-fees are hurt, you jump to conclusions, run for the hills, and cry for your mama.

Don't worry anon, your mother still loves you...I guess.

>> No.4365887
File: 78 KB, 340x314, 1448203443051.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4365887

>>4365869
>ywn be as emotionally fragile as this guy
Feels good man

>> No.4365891

>>4363878
Oh look it's this thread. Again. Not like we didn't have it last month as well. Or the month before that. Or the month before that.

>> No.4365892

>>4365864
Exaggeration aside, no it isn't simply an opinion. Not only can this be proven but it's the inevitable conclusion if you apply some basic as fuck logic. What's the alternative, that games don't become easier if you remove consequences? Get a grip

>> No.4365898

>>4365892
Your opinion is that removing lives/continues means that the game has no consequences while mine is that having lives and continues won't save you if you cannot make any progress.

We can both justify our opinions but at the end of the day, there's nothing to prove, because they're opinions, not facts that can be proven with objective or empirical evidence.

>> No.4365907
File: 196 KB, 485x409, your_shit___fuck_it.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4365907

>>4363878
Save states just save me time and effort.

I always bash a save state right before a LTTP boss.

My ass ain't walking through the whole goddamn dungeon again, no, fuck you I ain't doing it.

>> No.4365910

>>4364616
The Ghosts and Goblins series is well known for using player actions to determine enemy behavior. It's the most unique and enjoyable aspect of the game, and it cannot be enjoyed if abusing save states simply because, as a tool-assisted player, you can randomly approach each encounter until you find a favorable outcome and bypass a situation you consider 'unfair'. You not only lack skill, but appreciation for what makes some games satisfying to play. Claiming that you also beat the game afterwards only creates confusion in your audience, as you still lack important experiences that others who beat the game legitimately consider self-evident. Good luck finding people who care about your opinion on games!

>> No.4365914

>>4365898
>Your opinion is that removing lives/continues means that the game has no consequences
lol no what a retarded misrepresentation. My "opinion" is that removing consequences for failure removes consequences for failure. No matter how much you try to spin this, you can't describe what save scumming does in any other way. You're essentially minimizing consequences for failure to such an extent where they're almost non existent. Obviously you still have to repeat very tiny sections of the game so it's not totally devoid of consequences, but it's as close as you can get without making yourself invulnerable.

>> No.4365917

>>4365914
>My "opinion" is that removing consequences for failure removes consequences for failure.
>Obviously you still have to repeat very tiny sections of the game so it's not totally devoid of consequences
Now this is amusing. You claim that it removes consequences for failure while at the same time listing a consequence for failure.

Based on this, you have the opinion that this isn't enough of a consequence while I believe that it is.

Are you willing to agree to disagree?

>> No.4365920

>>4365887
>>4365878
What was said that was supposed to hurt his feelings? Your baits are getting too obvious.

>> No.4365923

>>4365910
If it's based purely on my inputs as a player, I'd still have to know how to trigger those inputs to actually bypass the section.
>Claiming that you also beat the game afterwards only creates confusion in your audience, as you still lack important experiences that others who beat the game legitimately consider self-evident.
I'm not playing in front of an audience for one and most people won't care because I'm playing a single-player game without being compared against someone else.

Now, if I was a speed runner then you might have a point, but arguing from any other position is irrelevant to this discussion since I'm generally playing this game for fun, not for bragging rights.

Then again, I'll chalk this up to another opinionated anon confusing opinion for fact and move along about my business.

>> No.4365925

>>4365917
It's only amusing because you're thick as a brick and think it's some kind of great gotcha. You do understand that consequences for failure aren't some binary thing, right? You can have more or less consequences, depending on how your game works. The only way to remove ALL consequences is to enable flying, invulnerability, infinite resources, noclip, etc. so you're essentially not even playing the game but observing it. Games like IWBTG have less consequences for failure than roguelikes. Removing consequences from a game necessarily makes it easier. Replace it with "punishment" if you still don't understand.

>> No.4365926

>>4363878
Weak ass shit
Even in games that allow it by default lie doom or duke nukem

>> No.4365928

>>4365920
That his "facts" are just opinions that don't carry any actual weight. You wouldn't believe how many narcissists crumble if you imply that they aren't all that special.

>> No.4365943

>>4365925
>Games like IWBTG have less consequences for failure than roguelikes.
And yet, IWBTG doesn't become any easier than your standard roguelike just because you don't have a limited number of lives. If anything, IWBTG shows that you don't need limited lives/continues to create a difficult game, which is what I was saying all along.

>> No.4365948

>>4365943
IWBTG was designed to have infinite lives, the other games work. That's not hard to understand. You seem to lack critical thinking skills.

>> No.4365951

>>4365948
>other games work

weren't*

>> No.4365958

>>4365943
IWBTG is much easier than roguelikes. But that's not relevant to anything. Yes, games can be difficult without much consequences, but removing existing consequences from games always makes games easier. IWBTG would be much easier if it had a checkpoint after literally every single obstacle. The most difficult sections of the game are very sparse on checkpoints.

>> No.4365979

>>4365948
>>4365951
>IWBTG was designed to have infinite lives, the other games work.
IWBTG was designed to be a game that kicked your ass through your nose and it does so quite easily in spite of having infinite lives. Hell, if you want limited lives/continues, the game has impossible mode where you have to beat the entire game without dying once so you can't even claim that it was designed to be beaten with infinite lives either.
>>4365958
>IWBTG would be much easier if it had a checkpoint after literally every single obstacle.
As someone who has beaten the game on medium, hard, and very hard, it really doesn't make that much of a difference beyond how far you have to backtrack.
>The most difficult sections of the game are very sparse on checkpoints.
Actually, checkpoints are generally spaced so that there's one every 2-5 screens, depending on the difficulty you chose.

>> No.4365982

>>4365979
at this point you don't even know what you are saying

>> No.4365984

>>4365982
I know exactly what I'm saying, lives don't matter, even in games that were "designed" around having them.

>> No.4365992

>>4365979
IWBTG is really easy on the modes with infinite lives though, you can beat it in a couple-few relaxed sessions. It's not like arcade games that take weeks or months of practice to get a clear. Though your point is true that games can be challenging up to a point while having constant checkpoints. Problem with that is that the difficulty will always have to come from either pixel perfect precision or death traps as I've already mentioned. Games with harsher punishment can afford to be less annoyingly difficult moment-to-moment because that's not their only source of difficulty.

>> No.4366006

>>4365992
>IWBTG is really easy on the modes with infinite lives though
It really isn't.
>It's not like arcade games that take weeks or months of practice to get a clear.
You mean the same arcade games that have functionally infinite lives as well thanks to free play?
> Problem with that is that the difficulty will always have to come from either pixel perfect precision or death traps as I've already mentioned.
And? You say that as if retro games didn't have their fair share of pixel perfect precision or death traps while also expecting you to complete the game using a limited number of lives/continues.
>Games with harsher punishment can afford to be less annoyingly difficult moment-to-moment because that's not their only source of difficulty.
And yet, there are still games from the 80's/90's that were arguably just as hard as IWBTG while also expecting you to deal with limited lives/continues. Look at Ninja Gaiden, Ghosts and Goblins, fucking Battletoads!

>> No.4366031

>>4366006
>You mean the same arcade games that have functionally infinite lives as well thanks to free play?
Yes, and? Beating arcade games means 1cc'ing them.
>And?
For starters it's a frustrating source of difficulty, secondly it heavily encourages if not outright forces developers to remove gameplay depth to preserve challenge. It's telling that with one checkpoint per screen are typically really shallow simon says affairs.
Ninja Gaiden does have some moments where you need to be very precise but not on the level of IWBTG and certainly much less frequent. You can use items to get through the difficult parts easily enough, the spin slash feeling downright broken at times. Ghosts n Goblins never forces you to do any pixel perfect jumps, most of the difficulty there comes from how unpredictable it is. Didn't play Battletoads much so I can't comment, but I doubt it's much different. Honestly it seems like you only think the games are like IWBTG because you played with savestates so instead of using items and strategy in NG you brute forced it, and instead of preventing nasty patterns/spawns in GnG you dealt with them.

>> No.4366092

>>4366031
>Beating arcade games means 1cc'ing them.
In your opinion. To others, just getting to the end of the game is enough, and neither way to play is inherently superior to the other.
>For starters it's a frustrating source of difficulty,
In your opinion. To others, having to play with complete precision at all times is the most exciting way to play, especially in games like Ninja Gaiden where you're fighting tooth and nail for every yard gained.
>Ghosts n Goblins never forces you to do any pixel perfect jumps, most of the difficulty there comes from how unpredictable it is.
> instead of preventing nasty patterns/spawns in GnG you dealt with them.
You're confused anon. Is GnG totally unpredictable or is it possible to exploit the enemy A.I. to your advantage? Because you're either implying that the game is built on RNG or it's built on pattern recognition caused from knowing how to do the right inputs to give yourself an easier time.

>> No.4366164

>>4366092
>In your opinion. To others, just getting to the end of the game is enough, and neither way to play is inherently superior to the other.
Doesn't matter, the point remains the same whether you agree with me or not which is that IWBTG with infinite lives is incredibly easy compared to 1cc'ing arcade games.
>In your opinion. To others, having to play with complete precision at all times is the most exciting way to play, especially in games like Ninja Gaiden where you're fighting tooth and nail for every yard gained.
Yes of course it's my opinion that it's frustrating. The larger point here is that it limits the ways in which developers can challenge you and nearly forces a certain kind of design, which is irrelevant to how I feel about it.
>Is GnG totally unpredictable or is it possible to exploit the enemy A.I. to your advantage?
It's challenging when it's unpredictable and becomes easier as you learn to exploit the enemy AI. It has relatively complex enemy behaviours and spawns that seem random until you take the time and study the game. Honestly it's pointless explaining this to you, as you are far too daft to understand GnG's difficulty and obviously haven't played it outside of maybe a save state heavy playthrough. Me and another anon already tried to explain this in detail but you simply refused to understand.

>> No.4366202

>>4366164
>Doesn't matter, the point remains the same whether you agree with me or not which is that IWBTG with infinite lives is incredibly easy compared to 1cc'ing arcade games.
Whether or not you 1cc an arcade game doesn't change the fact that you're given unlimited lives/continues through free play either.
>The larger point here is that it limits the ways in which developers can challenge you and nearly forces a certain kind of design, which is irrelevant to how I feel about it.
How so?
>It's challenging when it's unpredictable and becomes easier as you learn to exploit the enemy AI.
So basically, like any other video game ever created? Because the game should become easier as you play the game and gain enough understanding to make progress. I think you're giving GnG more credit than it actually deserves out of nostalgia or to make your point seem stronger than it actually is.

>> No.4366205

>>4366202
You're utterly hopeless

>> No.4366213

>>4366205
I'll take that as a yes then. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that GnG is a bad game, I'm just thinking that you're making it out to be something that it isn't because you enjoy the game and have played it so much.

You're more than happy to have your opinions on which game is harder and for what reasons, as am I for for disagreeing with you based off of my own opinions on what makes a game hard.

Anyways, if you want, we can agree to disagree.

>> No.4366214

>>4366213
Your opinions on what make a game hard is nothing more than your autistic need to get someone to agree to disagree because you have some kind of fucked up emotional/mental problems that makes you think it's fun or rewarding to get someone to give in. Get help. Serious, mental, psychological help.

>> No.4366215
File: 38 KB, 450x375, 116731.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4366215

>>4365818
>doesn't mean that it's actually cheating one way or another

>> No.4366219

Pussy bullshit. Use the emulated battery.

>> No.4366220

>>4366214
Whoa anon, I'm gonna need you to calm down a bit if we're to keep this discussion going. I never said that GnG wasn't a bad game so I don't know why you're so upset.

>> No.4366225

>>4366220
>if we're to keep this discussion going

We're not. Please go talk to somebody about what you're doing and how you feel.

>> No.4366226

>>4366215
>Someone was butthurt enough to do this because someone else had a different opinion than them.
The internet was a mistake.

>> No.4366227
File: 36 KB, 600x320, 1h45M5p.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4366227

>>4366213
How about instead of doing guesswork you go and play the game yourself, and not the abomination of a NES port.

>> No.4366229

>>4366226
it's actually about trannies brainlet

>> No.4366230

>>4366225
If we're not continuing then why did you reply? Are you really that angry that implied that GnG wasn't all you implied it to be.

Please, take a rest, calm your nerves, this isn't healthy anon.

>> No.4366231

>>4366230
I wasn't the GnG guy dumby

>> No.4366232

>>4366229
Why are you thinking about trannies anon?

>> No.4366235

>>4366232
because I just jerked off to some futa, obviously.

>> No.4366236

>>4366231
Then why did you enter this conversation? It has nothing to do with you and something I said obviously made you upset.

Wouldn't you be happier doing something else?

>> No.4366238

>>4366235
Well hey, there's nothing wrong with being gay so go ahead and do that anon.

>> No.4366239
File: 613 KB, 498x498, reallymademethink.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4366239

>>4366236
>get called out for acting like a crazy person
>lol ur just mad haha pwned mad kid

You've gotten dull, now. Try again next month.

>> No.4366240

>>4366227
Are you sure you linked to the correct post?

>> No.4366245

>>4366229
I think it's a great illustration of any situation where someone tries to override the meaning of a word with his headcanon, so it felt appropriate in this case.
If you do it, you can prove absolutely anything.

>> No.4366246

>>4366239
You're obviously upset about something I said, otherwise you wouldn't have bothered posting so aggressively.

Also, at what point did you believe that I sounded crazy?

>> No.4366248

>>4366245
>I think it's a great illustration of any situation where someone tries to override the meaning of a word with his headcanon
You do realize that the meaning of a word can change from one generation to the other, right?

>> No.4366249

>>4366240
Positive. I'm telling you that you should play GnG instead of trying to guess what its difficulty is like in order to fit it neatly into the narrative you're trying to push. The pic I used it something you would never find out with your savestate abusing playstyle.

>> No.4366250

>>4366246
I'm not exaggerating when I say that you talk exactly like this unironically schizophrenic girl that used to constantly bombard me with messages on Steam.

>> No.4366253

>>4366250
How so?

>> No.4366257

>>4366248
Yes. So? So far only this >>4365818 guy tried to argue that using save states is not cheating.

>> No.4366259

>>4366249
Oh yes anon, because posted a grid with numbers and words with no context are truly relevant to a platformer about a knight trying to save a princess from Satan.

You sound like those guys that think that EV training is required to play a pokemon game.

>> No.4366262

>>4366257
Just because your headcanon dictates that save states are cheating doesn't mean that that's what it actually is. It works both ways.

>> No.4366264

>>4366249
>>4366227
What the fuck is your pic supposed to be anyways?

>> No.4366268

>>4366259
A chart that shows you how to manipulate chest spawns isn't useful for playing the game? So this is the power of savescummers

>> No.4366272

>>4366262
>your headcanon
Cheating was a thing long before the vidiya.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheat

>b :to violate rules dishonestly cheat at cards cheating on a test

Game creators have made the rules of a game. You use some sort of outside tech intervention to play the game the way best suits yourself.

>> No.4366273

>>4366264
It's a chart showing how Super GnG's chest spawns work. Basically it counts the chests you've revealed and spawns items based on your armor status. Learning this helps you recover if you got hit instead of hoping you get lucky with armor drops

>> No.4366408

>>4366268
Not when you don't understand the context of the numbers and how they relate to the game. Even then, it's nice to have but it isn't required to beat the game.

>> No.4366414

>>4366272
I never said that cheating wasn't a thing before vidya, I'm saying that your headcanon that save states are cheating is not something that's actually true.

Under your definition, using a controller with turbo mode attached to it is cheating since that's also outside tech intervention but you'd be fucked to consider playing certain games without it, like Ghostbusters on the NES.

>> No.4366417

>>4366273
Which is nice but isn't necessarily required to know in order to beat the game. Hell, according to this guy >>4366272 using such a chart is cheating because you're referring to an outside source to help you determine how to best manipulate the chest spawn rate.

>> No.4366434

>>4366408
No shit, you don't need any strategy at all to beat the game with save states. You'd probably just finish the game thinking the items are preset.
>>4366414
Turbo mode is cheating in most cases, it's just an accepted form of cheating. That's why high scoring runs and speedruns mention whether they used turbo or not.

>> No.4366443

>>4366414
>I'm saying that your headcanon that save states are cheating is not something that's actually true
And I have provided the citation from the respectable source as evidence. My point is that you're violating the rules of a game when you're using save states.
It fits the
>to violate rules
part of the definition.
Hence it's cheating. Your argument so far boils down to "because I've said so".
>>4366417
>Hell, according to this guy >>4366272 using such a chart is cheating because you're referring to an outside source to help you determine how to best manipulate the chest spawn rate
Nah, you aren't. Well, to be more specific, it depends on how you define the rules of the game.
If you assume that the rules of a game are defined by the creators intent, then it may be the case, but it's extremely hard to determine properly. If you assume that the rules of a game are defined by the code, then no, you're not cheating.
Game-specific definition of cheating is a bit more inclusive, though, because cheat codes(which are mostly a glorified easy mode) are also widely considered cheating despite being the part of an original game.

>> No.4366460

>>4366434
>No shit, you don't need any strategy at all to beat the game with save states.
Don't put words in my mouth. Even without save states, people have managed to beat the game without having to reference the chart that you've made.
>Turbo mode is cheating in most cases, it's just an accepted form of cheating.
So now there are "acceptable" forms of cheating? If that's the case, what makes form of outside tech intervention more "accepted" than the other beyond your personal opinion?
>That's why high scoring runs and speedruns mention whether they used turbo or not.
I gotcha, so if you're just playing the game for fun, which I've been saying since the beginning, then it ultimately doesn't matter because you're not doing it to compete against someone else.

>> No.4366463

>>4366443
>And I have provided the citation from the respectable source as evidence.
You provided the definition of what cheating means but that doesn't mean that using save states specifically is a form of cheating. Even you said as much here >>4366443
>Well, to be more specific, it depends on how you define the rules of the game.
So why are we arguing when we both have come to a similar conclusion?

>> No.4366470

>>4366460
The chart was there to demonstrate a point. You don't have to have exact knowledge of every possible outcome, but normal players will still notice patterns and eventually figure the system out. Not so for savestate abusers. And this is just one of many systems in the game that you won't have any idea about if you use save states.
>So now there are "acceptable" forms of cheating?
Yes, obviously. Typically what makes some forms of intervention more accepted than others is how much they trivialize the games. Even something as simple as turbo buttons are looked down upon for certain games that are made too easy by their use. Save states make all games too easy, so they will never be accepted. Also whether or not a form of cheating is overlooked or shunned is irrelevant to its status as cheating.

>> No.4366474

Also
>>4366460
>so if you're just playing the game for fun, which I've been saying since the beginning, then it ultimately doesn't matter
It doesn't matter how you choose to play single player games for fun, yeah. That doesn't mean that save states aren't cheating however, and it doesn't mean that you're as skilled as people playing legitimately. But if you're playing for fun, none of that shit should be a concern.

>> No.4366481

>>4366470
>You don't have to have exact knowledge of every possible outcome, but normal players will still notice patterns and eventually figure the system out. Not so for savestate abusers.
You say that as if your average person playing the game for the first time is just going to naturally pick up on it. Not everyone is going to be willing or able to dedicate enough time to figure out the pattern in which the chests spawn. More than likely, they'll just try to avoid dying as often as possible to keep from losing the armor upgrades, look up help from a 3rd party site like youtube or gamefaqs, or just use a cheat code to bypass the entire thing by default.
>Save states make all games too easy, so they will never be accepted.
In your opinion.
>Also whether or not a form of cheating is overlooked or shunned is irrelevant to its status as cheating.
And your feelings on what counts as cheating or not is irrelevant as well. As you said, there are acceptable forms of cheating.

>> No.4366482

>>4366474
>It doesn't matter how you choose to play single player games for fun, yeah.
Thank you, we've finally come to an agreement.
>That doesn't mean that save states aren't cheating however, and it doesn't mean that you're as skilled as people playing legitimately.
In your opinion.

>> No.4366485

>>4366482
Prove you're equally skilled.

>> No.4366489

>>4366481
>In your opinion
In everyone else's opinion as well which is why they aren't accepted kek
>As you said, there are acceptable forms of cheating
Yes, save states aren't accepted though. Not that it wouldn't be cheating if it was. You do realize that you can use cheats while still acknowledging that they're cheats, right? I use savestates myself when playing for fun/practicing all the time and think they make certain games better. That doesn't make save states not cheating though, dummy.

>> No.4366491

>>4366485
How?

>> No.4366495

>>4366489
>In everyone else's opinion as well which is why they aren't accepted kek
Even ITT, there are people who either accept save states as a thing or don't care one way or another. I doubt anyone outside of a competitive environment like speed runners really care if you use save states for a game you're playing for fun.
>Yes, save states aren't accepted though.
I hope you're not trying to speak for gamers as a whole because if you are, you're sorely mistaken.
> You do realize that you can use cheats while still acknowledging that they're cheats, right?
And yet, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the gaming community who hasn't used a cheat at least once, unless they started off in the more recent gens where cheat codes aren't available anymore.
>That doesn't make save states not cheating though, dummy.
It also doesn't make you referencing a chart not cheating either, dummy.

>> No.4366496

>>4366495
Referencing a chart is learning through an outside influence, not directly influencing the game with a hack.

>> No.4366498

>>4366495
"Accept save states as a thing" doesn't mean anything. I accept save states as a thing and use them myself which I've already clearly stated. Ask them if they consider a save state abusing playthrough legitimate or on par with a regular playthrough and they will laugh at you for even asking something as dumb as that. Obviously most players cheat in one form or another, I cheat all the time in all sorts of ways. Fortunately I'm not an insecure bitch like you are so I can call it what it is.

>> No.4366502

Stop using them and you'll stop sucking

>> No.4366503

>>4366496
>Referencing a chart is learning through an outside influence
So is looking up a playthrough on youtube or gamefaqs.
>not directly influencing the game with a hack.
It's not even a hack though. It doesn't change the way the game plays like using a cheat code or turbo mode, it's just something that most emulators have thanks to the fact that a computer has access to more memory/RAM than an 8-bit/16-bit console from 20-30 years ago.

>> No.4366504

>>4366503
There's a difference between learning from a reference and plagiarizing someone elses work entirely.

>> No.4366507

>>4366491
Upload a long play of you beating any game that is considered challenging without using save states.

>> No.4366509

>>4366498
>Ask them if they consider a save state abusing playthrough legitimate or on par with a regular playthrough and they will laugh at you for even asking something as dumb as that.
Even if it's something like Kaizo Mario, where just beating the game at all is an achievement in and of itself?
>Obviously most players cheat in one form or another, I cheat all the time in all sorts of ways.
If most players cheat then can it really be called cheating anymore? I mean, at that point you could argue that the playing field has been evened out since everyone has access to the same tools.

>> No.4366510

>>4366504
>There's a difference between learning from a reference and plagiarizing someone elses work entirely.
How exactly do you plagiarize someone else's playthrough?

>> No.4366513

>>4366510
copying it move for move as you play

>> No.4366514

>>4366507
I could literally pick a random youtube video and post it and you'd have no way of knowing that it's really me. You think "anonymous" is just a title or something?

>> No.4366516

>>4366509
>everyone has access to the same tools.

Everyone has access to the same tools in games like WoW and CS:GO. Everybody could go download a bot or a wallhack. That doesn't make botting and wallhacking not cheating.

And yes, them being implemented in third party software i.e. an emulator or a hacking program is the same thing.

>> No.4366518

>>4366514
>It could not be me so I'm just not going to bother! Stop trying to get me to prove that I'm not really bad!

>> No.4366520

>>4366513
You're not copying them, you're just referencing an outside influence, isn't that how that works?

>> No.4366521

>>4366509
>Even if it's something like Kaizo Mario, where just beating the game at all is an achievement in and of itself?
I would hope so. Technically if you can make a romhack so insanely difficult that beating it with save states is a trial then your playthrough wouldn't be as much of a joke. Hell, you might even have competitive categories that allow speedruns in that case. It would still be absolute trash compared to a legitimate playthrough, but you know. Anyway, this is irrelevant to actual games.
>If most players cheat then can it really be called cheating anymore?
Yes, a video game's rules aren't some ever changing idea, they are clearly defined in the game's code itself which makes cheating easy to determine.

>> No.4366524

>>4366516
>And yes, them being implemented in third party software i.e. an emulator or a hacking program is the same thing.
In your opinion.

>> No.4366526

>>4366524
Nope, it's quite literally the same thing. Third party tools.

>> No.4366527

>>4366524
Explain the difference please, will be interesting to see your mental gymnastics

>> No.4366531

>>4366518
There's literally no way for me to prove anything one way or another without doxxing myself in some way and you realize too, since you're not jumping over yourself to post your youtube channel or twitch stream for everyone ITT to watch either.

>> No.4366532

>>4366531
throwaway account

>> No.4366534

>>4366521
>Technically if you can make a romhack so insanely difficult that beating it with save states is a trial then your playthrough wouldn't be as much of a joke.
So you admit that there are exceptions.
>Hell, you might even have competitive categories that allow speedruns in that case.
I'm pretty sure there is/was.
>Anyway, this is irrelevant to actual games.
What makes Kaizo Mario less of a game than Super Mario World?
>Yes, a video game's rules aren't some ever changing idea, they are clearly defined in the game's code itself which makes cheating easy to determine.
You also said that it depends on how you define the rules of the game. If we're being technical, a ROM's code had to be altered in some way to allow it to be played on the emulator in the first place.

>> No.4366536

>>4366534
>Kaizo Mario
romhack designed with third party tools in mind
>Super Mario Bros
game released in 1983 with no idea what a save state even was

see the difference?

>> No.4366540

>>4366526
>>4366527
One is something that's available by default as a consequence of playing a game on a virtual console instead of the original hardware while the other is a 3rd party program that you're choosing to download just to give yourself an edge.

>> No.4366541

>>4366540
>a virtual console
by definition an emulator is third party program that you're choosing to download.

>> No.4366542

>>4366532
Dumbass, that's still not going to help you know if it's actually me or not. Plus, it begs the question, so you're willing to accept that a random video I post is me but you're not willing accept that we might be the same skill level based on word alone?

How exactly does that work?

>> No.4366545

>>4366542
crouch 15 times at the beginning of the game and if theres a name entry put it as "hwjs"

>> No.4366546

>>4366534
>So you admit that there are exceptions.
Not quite. A savestate abusing run will always be shit-tier compared to a legitimate one, it might just be hard enough not to be laughable.
>I'm pretty sure there is/was.
There's TAS but that's its own thing entirely which isn't comparable to regular speedruns at all
>What makes Kaizo Mario less of a game
It's a romhack. You could create a romhack with savestates in mind, then they wouldn't be some outside influence destroying a game's intended challenge but rather the intended way to play.
The same logic you're using can be used to say that cheating doesn't exist. Unless you're going to argue that there's no such thing as cheating, you should probably drop this line of thought otherwise you won't be able to explain why savestates shouldn't be considered cheating while enabling trainers for invincibility and such should

>> No.4366547

>>4366536
And yet, the question was what made one less of a game than the other. I mean, there are plenty of games that started off as romhacks or mods of other games and yet I'd still be hard pressed to say that something like Project M is less of a game than Brawl just because one's more official than the other.

>> No.4366548

>>4366541
I'm not downloading an emulator to give myself an edge though, I'm downloading an emulator because I want to play old school games on my computer.

>> No.4366549

>>4366547
well there's the fact that the entirety of Project M is just code injected on top of somebody elses game and without the base game it wouldn't work or do anything.....

>> No.4366550

>>4366540
So if it was included by the devs it's not cheating? Cheat codes aren't cheating?

>> No.4366552

>>4366548
Yet you use the third party tools to give yourself an edge and cheat.

>> No.4366553

>>4366545
Literally any one of the other 60+ anons ITT could pull off the exact same thing and you'd never tell the difference. Seriously, what part of "anonymous" is so hard for you to understand? If I wanted people to recognize me, I'd wear a trip for crying out loud.

>> No.4366556

>>4366553
You're just backpedaling and coming up with any reason you can think of to avoid showcasing your skill, or rather, lack there of, because abusing savestates either eroded what little you had away, or supplements your complete lack of any. Sad.

>> No.4366559

>>4366546
>A savestate abusing run will always be shit-tier compared to a legitimate one, it might just be hard enough not to be laughable.
In your opinion.
>There's TAS but that's its own thing entirely which isn't comparable to regular speedruns at all
And yet, you'll still find streaming events that feature both in some capacity.
>The same logic you're using can be used to say that cheating doesn't exist.
Well if everyone involved has access to the same cheats, it's not exactly cheating anymore now is it?

>> No.4366562

>>4366559
>In your opinion
Nah demonstrably so
>And yet, you'll still find streaming events that feature both in some capacity.
Yes and? They don't compete, they're entirely seperate categories.
>Well if everyone involved has access to the same cheats, it's not exactly cheating anymore now is it?
Everyone has access to every cheat in existence. Hell, why not apply this to real life? Everyone can use performance enhancing drugs so why would it be cheating? It's fascinating how far a single autist can go to avoid admitting that he sucks at games.

>> No.4366563

>>4366549
You do realize that it's possible to play PM without a copy of Brawl right?

>> No.4366565

>>4366563
>You do realize it's possible to download a pirated version of Brawl with PM pre-installed, right?

fixed that message for you

>> No.4366568

>>4366556
How am I backpedaling? We're anonymous, the whole concept is not being able to tell one dude from the other. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand.

>> No.4366570

>>4363878
Most of PC game can save game every time same as save state.
I think developer design gameplay to appropriate their customer.
PC user not have many time but have much money, they want to finish their game faster as they can and console user in 90' are contrary.

If now a day you not have many time to play but you want to finish that game, use it.

>> No.4366572

>>4366568
I told you how to get around that but you keep shifting the goalposts. You're pathetic.

>> No.4366574

>>4366562
>Nah demonstrably so
In your opinion.
>They don't compete, they're entirely seperate categories.
But they're still featured, rather than being derided and mocked as you'd claimed.
>Everyone can use performance enhancing drugs so why would it be cheating?
You say this as if most athletes don't use performance enhancing drugs in some way by default.

>> No.4366576

>>4366565
What does piracy have to do with anything? Technically, every ROM or .iso that you've downloaded is a pirated version of the game it was based on.

Are you feeling alright?

>> No.4366579

>>4366572
You told over 60+ people the exact same thing and hoping that the first guy who does it is the person you're arguing with, which is beyond stupid.

>> No.4366580

>>4366574
>But they're still featured, rather than being derided and mocked as you'd claimed.
They're not presented as displays of player skill. They also are derided and mocked, go to any obvious TAS' comments sections and see how people react when they expect a normal speedrun and get a TAS. You won't be mocked and derided if you present your savestate abuse playthrough as a playthrough using cheats either.
>You say this as if most athletes don't use performance enhancing drugs in some way by default.
Yeah, so why not allow all forms of them? Or any other form of cheating? What's your argument?

>> No.4366581

>>4366574
There's no person whose opinion is that they'd prefer watching some bumbling shitter accident his way through a game with savestates than somebody actually doing their best to beat it on the actual hardware.

>>4366576
Your other posts are pretty convincing but posts like these just give the game away. You're making it too obvious you're trolling when you pretend this blatantly.

>>4366579
Nobody is going to bother pretending to be you. You are pathetic.

>> No.4366586

>>4366580
>They also are derided and mocked, go to any obvious TAS' comments sections and see how people react when they expect a normal speedrun and get a TAS.
So wait, are you really basing your opinion off of stream monsters and youtube comments? What about the actual players involved in the community?
>Yeah, so why not allow all forms of them?
Probably to keep them from dying of strokes midway through the game.

>> No.4366592

>>4366586
>What about the actual players involved in the community?
They know that TAS use savestates and aren't meant to be compared to legitimate runs? kek
>Probably to keep them from dying of strokes midway through the game.
What about other forms of cheating? Why not ride bikes during running marathons? Everyone can get a bike

>> No.4366602

>>4366581
>There's no person whose opinion is that they'd prefer watching some bumbling shitter accident his way through a game with savestates than somebody actually doing their best to beat it on the actual hardware.
I can name plenty of people who would and it mostly boils down to the fact that they can't really tell the difference out of ignorance.
>Nobody is going to bother pretending to be you.
It's he fact is that you're assuming that it's actually me, as opposed to a random video I swiped from youtube or something just so you can hold your head high at supposedly being better than a random dude on the internet.
>You are pathetic.
Oh the irony.

>> No.4366603

>>4366602
>as opposed to a random video I swiped

I told you how to get around that by performing specific actions in-game. You just keep swapping between the same two shitty excuses neither of which apply and have work arounds or don't matter. You are a pathetic, small person.

>> No.4366604

>>4366592
>They know that TAS use savestates and aren't meant to be compared to legitimate runs?
Now is that something that's an actual thing in the community or is this based on your own opinions again?
>Why not ride bikes during running marathons?
Because biking is a separate event that utilizes different muscle groups than marathon running. It would be like bringing Street Fighter V to a Tekken tournament, even if you won, that's not what people are are there for.

>> No.4366606

>>4366603
How sad is your life that you have to prove how much better you are than a random person on the internet? Once the thread dies, we'll likely never see each other again, so why act like you got something to prove to nobodies?

Also, what if the game doesn't have crouching?

>> No.4366607

>>4366604
>biking is a separate event that utilizes different muscle groups

And savestates is a seperate event that utilizes third party software and unintended rule changes.

>> No.4366608

>>4366606
It doesn't need to be crouching. It could be shooting 3 times, pausing, shooting twice more, jumping, etc. any sequence could be used to validate the performer.

All you have is pedantism and mental gymnastics.

>> No.4366609

>>4366604
>Now is that something that's an actual thing in the community or is this based on your own opinions again?
You retarded, son? Do you know why the TAS distinction even exists?
>Because biking is a separate event that utilizes different muscle groups than marathon running
Explain why this matters, why not just change the rules?

>> No.4366614

>>4366607
Not really. It would be more comparable to using a 10-speed bike with a handbrake vs. a bike that didn't have have those things. You're still riding a bike, it's just that one will give you an easier time than the other, not that it matters if you can't ride a bike in the first place.
>>4366609
>Explain why this matters
I already explained in an earlier post. Comparing one's ability to run based off of how well they ride a bike is like coming to a Tekken tournament with a copy of SF and expecting your wins in SF to transfer over as a win in Tekken.

>> No.4366619

>>4366614
>It would be more comparable to using a 10-speed bike with a handbrake
In your opinion.

In actuality using a bike is exactly like using a third party tool for running. Running is using two legs to propel yourself forward. Biking is using a tool to make that same activity easier and faster and more efficient. That's the logic you're using. To a normal human brain running is running, biking is biking.

Hilariously enough saying "expecting your wins in SF to transfer over as a win in Tekken." is exactly what you try to claim when saying playing with savestates is the same as without.

>> No.4366621

>>4366608
>It doesn't need to be crouching. It could be shooting 3 times, pausing, shooting twice more, jumping, etc. any sequence could be used to validate the performer.
If we're allowing anything then what's the point? I could just say "oh yeah, y'know it's me because I always jump as I walk through the boss doors in Megaman" or some other fairly common gaming quirk.
>All you have is pedantism and mental gymnastics.
You say, while missing the point of being anonymous.

>> No.4366623

>>4366614
Yes and comparing one's ability to play a game legitimately to someone's ability to play the game with cheats is almost just as absurd.

>> No.4366628

>>4366619
> actuality using a bike is exactly like using a third party tool for running.
Except for the fact that you're riding something as opposed to actually running...sure.
>That's the logic you're using.
It really isn't. I don't know how you reached that conclusion but that isn't what I've been saying at all.
>Hilariously enough saying "expecting your wins in SF to transfer over as a win in Tekken." is exactly what you try to claim when saying playing with savestates is the same as without.
I really hope you're not being serious.

>> No.4366629

>>4366628
>Except for the fact that you're breaking the rules and doing something that is contraty to them...sure.

Like.. using a third party tool to use savestates?

>> No.4366630

>>4366623
>Yes and comparing one's ability to play a game legitimately to someone's ability to play the game with cheats is almost just as absurd.
In your opinion.

>> No.4366632

>>4366630
Not an argument. Those are very different ways to play a game, one requires far more skill than the other.

>> No.4366634

>>4366629
No, like riding a bike when the competition is a test of how well you run.

>> No.4366636

>>4366634
Just like using savestates in a game that was never meant to have them!

Thank you for finally agreeing, anon!

Because as we know, games are a test of your execution, strategy, and patience, and savestates subverts that! Just like hopping in a car in the middle of a marathon when your legs get sore.

>> No.4366637

>>4366632
>Not an argument.
Of course it isn't, it's a statement. Everything you said is based on your personal opinion, not on actual facts that can proven or disproved.
>one requires far more skill than the other.
In your opinion.

>> No.4366638

>>4366637
Skill requirements are objective.

>> No.4366641

>>4366637
It's not an opinion, it's an observation. It can be proven or disproven by you directly if you didn't dodge the other guy's offer. Though of course you know you can't disprove it hence the excuses.

>> No.4366642

>>4366636
>Just like using savestates in a game that was never meant to have them!
Arguably, if you're playing a ROM or .iso on an emulator, it was actually designed for you to be able to use save states at your leisure. On that note, what about games that had quick load/quick saves?
>Because as we know, games are a test of your execution, strategy, and patience, and savestates subverts that!
Not really. Whether you use a chart gathered from trial and error or just used brute force, you'd still need to demonstrate execution, strategy, and patience to actually make progress, as opposed to quitting partway through because you died one too many times.

>> No.4366647

>>4366642
You only have to demonstrate the bare minimum of those skills, but then there are others which you simply don't have to demonstrate at all like consistency.

>> No.4366651

>>4366638
>Skill requirements are objective.
And that already exists in the form of levels and bosses. As far as the game's concerned, if you reached the end and got the best possible ending, you've objectively won. Whether or not your win was legitimate or not falls down to one's personal opinion on what makes a victory legitimate or not.
>>4366641
>It can be proven or disproven by you directly if you didn't dodge the other guy's offer.
How did I dodge anything by stating that we're posting on an anonymous imageboard where neither party would be able to tell who's who? If there was a way for me to stream something without requiring an account or 3rd party software to use, there'd be no problem.

>> No.4366653

>>4366651
>As far as the game's concerned, if you reached the end and got the best possible ending, you've objectively won. Whether or not your win was legitimate or not falls down to one's personal opinion on what makes a victory legitimate or not.
You can use the Konami code and still win. According to you this isn't necessarily cheating?

>> No.4366656

>>4366647
>You only have to demonstrate the bare minimum of those skills, but then there are others which you simply don't have to demonstrate at all like consistency.
How does consistency factor into testing one's execution, strategy, or patience?

>> No.4366657

>>4366653
>According to you this isn't necessarily cheating?
Not when the game is designed with this in mind. I mean, you could argue that the reason why Contra is so hard is because Konami figured that you'd be using the Konami code anyways.

>> No.4366658

>>4366656
For starters it doesn't have to, even if it's a seperate skill then it's one skill that savestates don't test at all. But it makes the test of each skill far more intense because you have to display it consistently.

>> No.4366661

>>4366657
>Not when the game is designed with this in mind
It isn't. Neither are the games you're using savestates with.
>I mean, you could argue that the reason why Contra is so hard is because Konami figured that you'd be using the Konami code anyways.
Contra isn't hard, and is that why they don't mention it in game or in the manual? Give proof.

>> No.4366668

>>4366463
>that doesn't mean that using save states specifically is a form of cheating
But it does. I've explained why.
>So why are we arguing when we both have come to a similar conclusion?
Because if we base this definition on an author's intent, it makes this term meaningless. It virtually impossible to prove or disprove it. It's not very useful.
But if we base it on actual game rules(which in this are represented by the code), it does. Because the actual rules are objective, even when they're flawed in some way.
In this case, authors clearly didn't implement this functionality. You did. Hence you've cheated.
And yes, the term seems to have evolved a bit when vidiya is concerned: now it also includes "cheat-codes", which would not be considered cheating in the traditional sense, because it's still playing by the game's rules.
I've yet to see any evidence(aside from your words) that the cheating in the traditional sense was excluded from the cheating definition in vidiya.

>> No.4366673

>>4366658
>For starters it doesn't have to
Then why bring it up?
>But it makes the test of each skill far more intense because you have to display it consistently.
Again, where does consistency play into your ability to display execution, strategy, and patience? I could sit down, play a game in front of an audience, beat it, and never have to play it again if I don't want to. If you mean consistency as a player overall then it also doesn't matter because people will generally be able to tell a good player from a bad one based off of how many times they fail certain parts of the game by default and how they react to their failure as well.

>> No.4366682

>>4366661
>It isn't.
How exactly was Contra not designed with the Konami code in mind? Keep in mind, I did say that you could argue the point.
>Contra isn't hard
In your opinion.
> is that why they don't mention it in game or in the manual?
Pretty sure it was mentioned in Nintendo Power at least, if not spread by word of mouth before the internet became a thing.

>> No.4366685

>>4366673
It's a skill savestates don't test. To beat a game with severe punishment you have to display consistency in execution, concentration, etc. because you will have to redo challenges several times. By using savestates you're stripping the game of its ability to test this skill because you will never see challenges you've beaten once ever again.

>> No.4366689

>>4366668
>Because if we base this definition on an author's intent, it makes this term meaningless.
Which it is.
>It virtually impossible to prove or disprove it. It's not very useful.
Then why bring it up in the first place?
>But if we base it on actual game rules(which in this are represented by the code), it does.
So the same code that had to be altered in order to make it compatible with the emulator in the first place?
>In this case, authors clearly didn't implement this functionality.
What of games on the virtual console that allow you to use save states? Would it be correct to say that save states are legit since Nintendo has shown their support by making most games on their virtual console compatible with save states retroactively?

>> No.4366690

>>4366682
>How exactly was Contra not designed with the Konami code in mind?
It doesn't show the code anywhere in the game or in the manual, and is perfectly beatable without it. It can't even render the sprites for that many lives. Now, what makes you think it was designed with it in mind?
>Pretty sure it was mentioned in Nintendo Power at least
Almost all cheats are mentioned somewhere, that doesn't mean games were designed with them in mind as long as they don't prevent you from experiencing all their content? Answer yes or no

>> No.4366693

>>4366685
>It's a skill savestates don't test.
Again, why does this matter?
>To beat a game with severe punishment you have to display consistency in execution, concentration, etc.
Which I had to have displayed in order to reach the end of the game in the first place.
>By using savestates you're stripping the game of its ability to test this skill because you will never see challenges you've beaten once ever again.
If I only ever play the game once, I'd never see these challenges again regardless. What's your point?

>> No.4366696

>>4366693
Nope, you don't have to display consistency of execution or concentration to reach the end of the game in the first place when you use save states. If you don't have to deal with a challenge more than once, then by default it cannot test your consistency. It's impossible.

>> No.4366697

>>4366690
>It doesn't show the code anywhere in the game or in the manual, and is perfectly beatable without it.
You can technically beat any game without dying once but that doesn't mean that the game wasn't designed around having three lives just because you never had to use any of them.
>Almost all cheats are mentioned somewhere, that doesn't mean games were designed with them in mind as long as they don't prevent you from experiencing all their content? Answer yes or no
Can you repeat your question? It reads like you forgot something and I'm not sure how to answer it.

>> No.4366705

>>4366697
Love how you dodged addressing all the other points which were far more important. What makes you think it was designed around the konami code? Stop dodging.
Also
>Almost all cheats are mentioned somewhere, does that mean the games were designed with them in mind as long as they don't prevent you from experiencing all their content? Answer yes or no
fixed

>> No.4366706

>>4366696
>Nope, you don't have to display consistency of execution or concentration to reach the end of the game in the first place when you use save states.
You also don't need consistency to beat the game in the first place either.
>If you don't have to deal with a challenge more than once, then by default it cannot test your consistency. It's impossible.
If I beat the game once and that's all I was shooting for, I don't have to bother beating the game again unless I specifically want to.

Consistency isn't required to beat any game, whether you use save states or not.

>> No.4366710

>>4366706
Wrong, any game that's challenging and has high punishment for failure demands consistency, Gradius 3 arcade for instance.

>> No.4366712

>>4366705
>Love how you dodged addressing all the other points which were far more important.
They were?
>What makes you think it was designed around the konami code?
Aside from the fact that konami included the code in the first place and the game is generally considered to be hard even if you are rocking 30 extra lives?
>Almost all cheats are mentioned somewhere, does that mean the games were designed with them in mind as long as they don't prevent you from experiencing all their content? Answer yes or no
I'd say yes, but only if it's a code that the devs designed themselves, rather than being a 3rd party thing like game genie was. At least, in my opinion.

>> No.4366713

Obviously very strongly.

>> No.4366716

>>4366710
>Wrong, any game that's challenging and has high punishment for failure demands consistency,
Not really, as long as you don't quit, you can technically throw your head against the wall until you stumble into a victory.
> Gradius 3 arcade for instance.
Prime example, if I'm just worried about beating the game, as opposed to going for 1cc, I can pretty much just restart from where I died over and over again until I manage to beat the game.

>> No.4366717

>>4366712
Right, so at this point you're saying that cheat codes aren't cheating.

>> No.4366718

>>4366713
No kidding.

>> No.4366721

>>4366717
Not according to this guy at least >>4366668
>And yes, the term seems to have evolved a bit when vidiya is concerned: now it also includes "cheat-codes", which would not be considered cheating in the traditional sense, because it's still playing by the game's rules.

>> No.4366724

>>4366713
I don't think I've ever seen /vr/ this active.

>> No.4366726

>>4366716
Wrong, it makes you play lengthy parts of the level again if you die, and beating the cube rush without becoming consistent is impossible. But since you're trying this hard, how about roguelikes and arcade games that don't allow you to continue after dying?

>> No.4366727

>>4366726
>But since you're trying this hard, how about roguelikes and arcade games that don't allow you to continue after dying?
I just restart from the beginning and try to get a little further next time until I win (assuming it's a game that even can be won in the traditional sense.)

>> No.4366729

>>4366721
Do YOU personally think that cheat codes dev console commands aren't cheating as long as the cheats don't stop you from seeing all the content? Answer yes/no.

>> No.4366730

>>4366729
Can you please repeat yourself again?

>> No.4366731

>>4366727
To get further you will be forced to develop your consistency, because otherwise you'll keep dying at the same shit.

>> No.4366736

>>4366730
Do YOU personally think that cheat codes/dev console commands aren't cheating, as long as the they don't stop you from finishing the gamer? Answer yes/no. I wanna hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

>> No.4366739

>>4366736
>Do YOU personally think that cheat codes/dev console commands aren't cheating, as long as the they don't stop you from finishing the gamer?
Sometimes but not always, as it depends on several factors that should be looked at on the case by case basis.

>> No.4366742

>>4366739
Was hoping for something more conclusive, sorry to disappoint you pal but I can no longer provide (You)'s

>> No.4366748

>>4366742
Not everything's black and white y'know.

>> No.4366824

>>4366689
>Which it is.
That contradicts your original point. If the term is meaningless, you can't tell whether something is cheating or not, yet you've stated that using save states isn't cheating.
So which it is?
>So the same code that had to be altered in order to make it compatible with the emulator in the first place?
I've thought that ROM-s are binary copies. You learn something every day, I guess.
>What of games on the virtual console that allow you to use save states?
This is another interesting point to argue. How much do you need to change until it's considered another game?
But I digress. When the game is developed, the author defines the target platforms for this game. If you use something other than the target platform to gain the advantage, yes, you're certainly cheating.
>>4366721
Please, do not put words in my mouth. Videogame-specific also includes cheat-codes. At least, that's what I've observed so far.

>> No.4366837

>>4366824
>So which it is?
Since the term is meaningless, it boils down to how you feel personally about this particular issue.
>How much do you need to change until it's considered another game?
That would depend on your how you feel personally again. I feel as though the virtual console games are largely unchanged but others might feel as though adding save states fundamentally changes the game.
>Please, do not put words in my mouth.
I didn't, I quoted you verbatim.

>> No.4366857

>>4366837
>Since the term is meaningless, it boils down to how you feel personally about this particular issue.
Your personal opinion is irrelevant and can be safely discarded, just like mine. I've provided the commonly accepted definition and a number of arguments. You've yet to address any of them.
>That would depend on your how you feel personally again.
Same as the previous point. Your personal opinion is irrelevant.
>I didn't, I quoted you verbatim.
And you have made this statement:
>Not according to this guy at least
when replying to this
>Right, so at this point you're saying that cheat codes aren't cheating.
So you've stated that according to me, cheat codes aren't cheating. I haven't said or implied that.

>> No.4367138

Beat startropics as a kid. Took me years. Had to collaborate with dad and cousin and we all three worked together with nintendo power to aolve puzzles and beat the game. Still dont remember how the fuck we got past the wet letter shit without that physical thing, but we did. Eventually beat the game and damn was it satisfying.

Beat startropics later in emulator with copious savestating. Took about a week. Was very nostalgiac. Game was much harder than I remembered. I honestly dont have the available time of a child anymore so it works for me. I felt satisfaction from both playthroughs and it was nice to have a quicker way thru the game while still playing it and not just watching a lets play. Relived alot of nice memories.

Overall if you are young and/or have the free time then there is nothing wrong with forgoing savestates, but if you arent/dont then there is nothing really wrong with using them either. You do have to beat the game afterall. I find the best way to use them is at the beginning of a stage or a screen even, but its only really cheap if you are spamming load and reload to avoid all damage or be perfect constantly. When it is used like that it is basically cheating, but hell if it would mean you beating a game you like or dropping it just for some reddit ass honor levels then fuck it just meme away and enjoy your singleplayer game however you want

>> No.4367151

>>4363878
Having to put your controller down every few minutes to save your spot gets tiring after a while so no I don't really use them. I guess sometimes I use them if I have to leave the house all of a sudden while I'm playing, but that's about it.

>> No.4367160

>using B button
cheating scum

>> No.4367219

>>4363920
Most games are hard to tune for everyone. In some case certain types of games can benefit from them when you reduce the tedium of the game required to get skilled for lower skilled players.

If a good player could pick up a game and master segments in say a half hour whereas a bad player might require 20 hours per segment to really git gud. It doesn't make sense to drag out the game for the lowest common denominator and make every segment a 20 hour training cycle. Good players will get pissed at it and bad players will be annoyed once they're skilled enough to pass it. Save states fixes that by letting bad players repeat segments as necessary without having to start from scratch to get there and minimizes stretching a game that good players wouldn't like. Otherwise you'd have to implement something like rewinding such as Braid or lots of checkpoints and infinite continues to produce the same result. People would complain about those too, nor are they guaranteed to be properly implemented in a fairly standardized way.

>> No.4367236

>>4367219
I use savestates and rewind in most 16 bit games as a checkpoint system but goddamn does Braid make me nauseous.

>> No.4367263

>>4366857
>Your personal opinion is irrelevant and can be safely discarded, just like mine.
>Your personal opinion is irrelevant.
And yet, here we are, still arguing which opinion is best.
>So you've stated that according to me, cheat codes aren't cheating.
According to your post, that is what you were implying but maybe I misunderstood what you were going for, in which case, I am sorry.

>> No.4367335

>>4366642
>if you're playing a ROM or .iso on an emulator, it was actually designed for you to be able to use save states at your leisure.

an emulator is a third party tool. ROM files are for archival and backup purposes and preservation of media that will fail one day. They don't suddenly become a transformed piece because someone dumped them you fucking brainlet.

>> No.4367361

>>4367263
>And yet, here we are, still arguing which opinion is best.
I've thought we were arguing if using save states is cheating.
Arguing opinions is pointless: everyone is entitled to whatever they concoct.

>> No.4367363

>>4367361
And yet, we've been arguing for our respective opinions on whether using save states counts as cheating for the past few hours. I even offered to agree to disagree and yet you've continued arguing and for what reason?

>> No.4367364

>>4367335
>an emulator is a third party tool.
By your logic, everything's a third party tool if it's not the original hardware.

>> No.4367367

>>4367364
that's exactly true you fucking idiot.

>> No.4367370

>>4367363
It was a misunderstanding. I thought you have some objective points to back up your point of view.
As it turns out, you have none. If I've known it before, I wouldn't even bother to argue.
Good day to you, sir.

>> No.4367383

>>4367367
So pretty much, everyone ITT is a branlet, regardless of their feelings on save states, including yourself.

>> No.4367384

>>4367370
You could've just agreed to disagree and saved yourself hours of pointless arguing but I guess /vr/ isn't all that different from /v/ at the end of the day.

Oh well, good day to you too.

>> No.4367385

>>4367383
>everyone ITT is a branlet

yes, especially you.

I don't see why that would include myself but if it makes you feel better to pretend, I won't stop you.

>> No.4367391

>>4367385
>Everyone's an idiot except me
t. brainlet

>> No.4367394

>>4367391
Sad. Out of ""arguments"" so all you have is petty insult bait.

Manhandled into a corner you can't possibly convince even yourself doesn't exist.

>> No.4367403
File: 51 KB, 555x344, 1437641347673.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4367403

>>4367394
>all you have is petty insult bait.
>Oh, but the insults I've made? Those are justified.

>> No.4367408

>>4367403
Sad. Still not a counter argument.

Manhandled into a corner you can't possibly convince even yourself doesn't exist.

>> No.4367414

>>4367408
>I-Ignore what I said
>Y-You lost!
Keep telling yourself that I guess.

>> No.4367418

>>4367414
My insults didn't come after I had no arguments. Yours did. Sad. Manhandled into a corner you can't possibly convince even yourself doesn't exist.

>> No.4367431

>>4367418
>My insults didn't come after I had no arguments. Yours did.
Neither did mine and I'm also not being a hypocrite either.

>> No.4367435

>>4367431
>Neither did mine

Wrong. You knew you lost so you just resorted to calling me a brainlet. Sad. Manhandled into a corner you can't possibly convince even yourself doesn't exist.

>> No.4367449

>>4367435
>You knew you lost so you just resorted to calling me a brainlet.
I didn't call you a brainlet because I lost the argument, I called you a brainlet in response to you implying that everyone else ITT, except yourself, was a brainlet.

In fact, I'd argue that you doubling down on this on shows how weak your argument was since you've obviously run out of points to make while hoping to distract from it by playing the victim card.

>> No.4367454

>>4367449
You still haven't refuted my original argument. Because you can't. Sad. Brutally manhandled into a corner you can't possibly convince even yourself doesn't exist.

>> No.4367469

>>4367454
>You still haven't refuted my original argument.
Which was? Also, repeating yourself over and over again, saying that you've won, is not the same as actually winning. In truth, that's something that brainlets generally do when they know that they have no arguments yet still want (you)'s and e-cred.
>inb4 I'm not going to repeat myself to a brainlet like you
Probably because you didn't have an actual argument in the first place.

>> No.4367471

>>4367469
Nice try. Not playing your little game. You know exactly what I said but you get some twisted satisfaction from getting people to do the things you want them to do:

i.e. "agree to disagree" or now "repeat your argument I clearly read and responded to earlier"

Sad.

Savagely destroyed; manhandled into a corner you can't possibly convince even yourself doesn't exist.

>> No.4367480

What the heck is going on here
>408 / 12 / 66 / 1

>> No.4367485
File: 49 KB, 564x470, 1485490137140.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4367485

>>4367471
So you never had an argument in the first place, good to know. For the record, it took you more effort to pretend that you've won than it would've taken to paraphrase what you had said earlier.

I mean, if you're just interested in winning, I can give you this nice shiny trophy as compensation until you feel like starting an intelligent discussion.

>> No.4367486

>>4367480
Autism, badwrongfun, trolls trolling trolls, the usual bullshit.

>> No.4367487

>>4366215
Good looking apple, anon.

>> No.4367489

>>4367485
Nice try. Not playing your little game. You know exactly what I said but you get some twisted satisfaction from getting people to do the things you want them to do:

i.e. "agree to disagree" or now "repeat your argument I clearly read and responded to earlier"

Sad.

Savagely destroyed; manhandled into a corner you can't possibly convince even yourself doesn't exist.

>> No.4367492

>>4367489
Wow, you must really be backed into a corner if all you can do is copy-paste your own responses to maintain some vague illusion of victory.

>> No.4367496

>>4367492
Nice try. There isn't a browser in the world that can't scroll back up to see. Pretender. Not playing your little game. You know exactly what I said but you get some twisted satisfaction from getting people to do the things you want them to do:

i.e. "agree to disagree" or now "repeat your argument I clearly read and responded to earlier"

Sad.

Savagely destroyed; annihilated entirely; decimated completely. manhandled into a corner you can't possibly convince even yourself doesn't exist.

>> No.4367508

>>4367496
>There isn't a browser in the world that can't scroll back up to see.
And yet, you're unable to scroll back up and copy-paste a response that you said a few hours earlier but you're willing to copy-paste "I won" over and over again like you actually won something.

If it's so easy to do, why have you not done it yet? If you love repeating yourself so much, why not repeat the one thing that would actually clarify the points that you supposedly won with? Did you even have a point in the first place?

>> No.4367509

>>4367508
Still not falling for it, loser.

>> No.4367516

>>4367509
Falling for what? I'm just asking you to clarify your point. It shouldn't be that difficult to do considering you're the one who made the argument.

You're actively wasting more effort dodging the question than actually answering it.

>> No.4367518

>>4367516
Still not going to do it you little dweeb. Your browser scrolls up.

>> No.4367520

>>4367518
>Your browser scrolls up.
So does yours.

>> No.4367523

>>4367520
Not falling for it. You're really pathetic.

>> No.4367532

>>4367523
>You're really pathetic.
Says the guy saying "I won" for the past hour straight. Oh the irony.

>> No.4367539

>>4367532
I'm not the one that's incapable of scrolling up because I'm jerking my tiny winky at the idea of making somebody else do it.

>> No.4367547

>>4367539
You are, however, the one who got mad at being called a brainlet while acting like one for the past hour. Again, the irony.

>> No.4367548

>>4367547
Not woorkingggg.

>> No.4367553

>>4367548
>Not woorkingggg.
Are you having a stroke?

>> No.4367556

>>4367553
Not going to happen, chump.

>> No.4367558

>>4367556
So you're not having a stroke?

>> No.4367561
File: 359 KB, 1189x885, 37671-Tenchu_2_-_Birth_of_the_Stealth_Assassins_[U]-1491924092[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4367561

Alright, I'm late to the party and there's no way I can follow whatever autistic slapfight of an argument that's happening here so I'm just going to throw my shit on the dung heap.

Are save states cheating? That seems to be the point of contention. Using them to dodge password systems or as an alternative to leaving your machine on overnight in games where you can't save at all, you can't really call that cheating.

Now let's think about games with poorly implemented save systems like Crash Bandicoot 1. It's fucking obnoxious to have to collect the three faces just to be able to save your game, but hey, that's part of the challenge of the game, isn't it? So if you save state after every level you play and use that as your save file instead, it's cheating. But is cheating always a bad thing? If you're cheating to make the game more enjoyable for yourself and essentially fix a design flaw of the game (that would be removed in the sequels), does it even really matter? Maybe you'll always have to add that asterisk to your answer when someone asks if you beat a certain game, but fuck it.

Now I'm not someone who likes using savestates at all apart from the aforementioned examples of using them to dodge annoying password systems and whatnot. I am starting to open up to the idea of using them sparingly to get around design flaws that otherwise would spoil the game on me. A good example is Tenchu 2, a game I owned as a child but never beat. Why didn't I beat it? Because despite the fact that it's a stealth game, most levels stick difficult bosses right at the end that you're forced to fight head on and there's NO checkpoint before them. When you die, back to the start of the level. Honestly, it's a shitty mechanic for this kind of game. So I think I'm just gonna go back and replay the game, savestating whenever I encounter a boss. I'm not gonna get any e-cred for this, but screw it, I might actually be able to enjoy the game this way.

>> No.4367568

>>4367558
I'm not playing your autistic spergo powertripping game any more. You're perfectly capable of reading and scrolling up, you've just done your best to distract the fact that you can't possibly win the argument or refute my point.

>> No.4367572

>>4367568
>I'm not playing your autistic spergo powertripping game any more.
You say, while going on an autistic spergo powertrip yourself? Again, irony.

>> No.4367576

>>4367572
Your baits have gotten boring.

>> No.4367581

>>4367576
>Your bait has gotten boring
FTFY

>> No.4368168

>Save states aren't cheating
>434 posts/15 images/68 unique IPs
I'm so disappointed in you /vr/ holy shit. Autism speaks!

>> No.4368352

How does /vr/ feel about people who play games with usb controllers? For example, can a person who got 120 stars on Mario 64 really say that they've beaten it legitimately if they used something like a dualshock or xbox controlller?

>> No.4368357

>>4368352
Kids of the day used third party controllers all the time, so yeah.

>> No.4368359

Also they're an excuse for romhackers to publish unbalanced garbage.

>> No.4368609

>>4368352
To me if the how you play is so close to the original that you won't have a problem transfering your skill to the actual hardware, it's completely legit. If you rely on a third party tools as a crutch and are helpless on the original hardware, then it isn't legit.

>> No.4368620

>>4368352
Is this a real thing people worry about?

>> No.4368628

>>4368620
Nah nobody gives a shit you can see people playing arcade games with gamepad and console games with keyboard all the time and nobody but extreme spergs calls it illegitimate

>> No.4368638

>>4368628
I might understand those situations where the controller type is totally different, but yeah, only a sperg would even comment on it.

It seems like they're stretching for reasons to exclude people. Or make themselves seem greater, idk.

>> No.4368643

>>4368638
Yeah like a mouse injector for N64 shooters maybe, but even then who gives a fuck

>> No.4368668

>>4368359
Such as?

>> No.4368670

>>4368668
Kaizo Mario?

>> No.4368675

>>4363878
When I was a kid and had nothing else to do and I got only one or two new games a year, trhen yeah, i'd sit and play over and over to beat it.

These days if I have to restart a level because of some bullshit death or something, I'll save state it. I've got too much of a backlog and too many options to grind for too long on a single game.

>> No.4368678

>>4368638
>It seems like they're stretching for reasons to exclude people. Or make themselves seem greater, idk.
Hit the nail right on the head famalam. The people who always comment on how "legit" someone's shit is are generally the type of people who don't actually have the community's best interests at heart.

If you want to use save states, fucking whatever. If you want to play smash bros. melee with a set of DK bongo drums, go right the fuck ahead. And if you want to use cheat codes, you do you boo-boo.

Mofos ITT be so caught up in feeling legit that they've forgotten that video games were originally meant to be an activity people do for FUN! Yeah, there are times when you could get some street cred for doing shit like EVO moment 37 or earn money by winning a gaming tournament or whatever but at its core you play games because you enjoy it, not to impress people that you don't even know.

>> No.4368679

>>4368670
Hahah, you funny.

>> No.4368687

>>4368678
Not a single person ITT said that you shouldn't use save states if you want to

>> No.4368694

>>4368687
Are you sure we're reading the same thread? I mean, I wouldn't blame you if you skipped the autism fest from earlier but I just wanted to make sure.

>> No.4368695

save states are only okay if you're doing it to save time

>> No.4368697

>>4368694
I'm one of the people that went full autism, and never once did I say that you shouldn't use them. In fact I said the exact opposite multiple times. It's a strawman stemming from your personal hurt feelings rather than any sort of objective reality

>> No.4368698

>>4368675
Even when I was a kid I couldn't stand a game that was repetitive. Never beat most platformers because after 1 or 2 tries I would get bored and do something else. Then eventually I'd be able to do the first few levels easy and wouldn't play it again because going through the easys bits was a chore then.

>> No.4368701

>>4368694
Quote some posts then.

>> No.4368703

>>4368697
Wow, the moment I disagree with you, you go full defensive and ad hom like a motherfucker? Okay.

I can totally believe that you're one of the autists from earlier, nobody who isn't on the spectrum would get this emotional over people "cheating" in a game where their only competition is against themselves.

>> No.4368705

>>4368701
Again, are you sure that we're looking at the same thread? It'd be easier to quote the posts that didn't go into full blown autism.

>> No.4368707

>>4368698
Could you beat them after you got your ADD meds?

>> No.4368708

>>4368703
There were no ad homs in the post, learn what the term means. I've already said I don't care if you or anyone else blatantly cheats in sp games, I do it myself all the time because it's fun or convenient.

>> No.4368710

>>4368705
They went full autism because you claimed that using save states and other forms of cheating are perfectly legitimate, not because you used save states and forms of cheating which nobody gives a shit

>> No.4368712

>>4368705
So that's a "no" then. Not suprising.

>> No.4368713

>>4368707
I don't have ADD. My attention is fine with things I find interesting, games included. But that kind of repetitive one holds little appeal to me.

>> No.4368718

>>4368710
>They went full autism because you claimed that using save states and other forms of cheating are perfectly legitimate
Excuse me? Are you sure you're talking to the right person?
>>4368712
Fine, here's a few
>>4364387
>>4364379
>>4364372
>>4364365
>>4366443
Keep in mind, these are just posts I picked at random. If I were to do a full transcript, we'd be here all day.

>> No.4368719

>>4363878
>emulation

>> No.4368724

>>4368713
Don't bother man, you'd have an easier time trying to talk to a brick wall than to reach some sort of agreement with these spergs.

>> No.4368729

>>4368718
Not a single one of those posts says you shouldn't cheat or use save states. Not one. They're pointing out the reality that beating game with cheats is very different from beating it legitimately, which is true. How much you care about it is entirely up to you. I don't personally. Your problem is that you're attempting to redefine cheating via ridiculous mental gymnastics in order to legitimize your own playstyle because for you seemingly think cheating is always bad or something. It isn't.

>> No.4368732

>>4368724
I wasn't looking to agree with him, just giving my perspective. I think it's great people out there like playing sonic and Mario even if I don't.

Save states are handy for a few of them I wanted to play through for the grapics.

>> No.4368753

>>4368729
Are you confusing me with the dude you were arguing with earlier? Because holy fuck man, how high off your own hype do you have to be to think that it's impossible for more than one person to disagree with you?

Get over yourself sperg. You can't cheat in a game where the only competition is against yourself.

>> No.4368761

>>4368753
Honest mistake seeing as how you believe the same things he does. It doesn't matter if you call it cheating or something else because it still leaves the fact that most forms of it deprive you of some pretty major parts of the experience, usually difficulty. Whether you think it's a bad thing, or how much it matters is up to you. Just stop with the bullshit strawmen

>> No.4368769

>>4368761
>It doesn't matter if you call it cheating or something else because it still leaves the fact that most forms of it deprive you of some pretty major parts of the experience, usually difficulty.
Oh yeah, you're totally right, I forgot how save states allow you to skip to the end of the game and all, however could I have been so blind?

You can't cheat in a game where the only competition is against yourself sperg. The only people who care about something this trivial are so far gone that they can't even remember what having fun is anymore.

Oh snap, I used le ebin "strawman" again so I guess I'm automatically wrong, right sperg? Is this the part where you spend 20 or so posts going on about how you "backed me into a corner" or some shit?

>> No.4368778

>>4368769
third party tools are cheating. unless using a trainer for godmode in a game isn't cheating

>> No.4368782

>>4368769
Making it very hard to believe that you're not the same guy, either way forget it you're already just as much of a tedious thick cunt. Too bad you don't have real life save states, maybe it'd make understanding arguments a less arduous process

>> No.4368794

>>4368778
You cannot cheat when your only competition is against yourself. It's about as ridiculous as claiming that you have to pay alimony because you decided to masturbate using your left hand instead of your right.
>>4368782
You'd probably be an easier person to talk to if you stopped taking yourself so seriously. Ah well, too bad autism isn't quite as useful IRL as it is in your safe space.

>> No.4368808

>>4368794
>You cannot cheat when your only competition is against yourself
Even if true this is just pointless nitpicking argument, since you'll still have the looked down upon behaviours in games like using cheat codes, save states and third party software, they'll just use a different name.

>> No.4368876

>>4368794
if I go through and rig the deck to play Solitaire so that every single card is the exact card I need when I need it as they draw them, am I even playing Solitaire anymore?

Games have rules and without the rules they cease to be the same game.

>> No.4368994

>>4367138
This is the only post worth reading in this whole thread.

To everyone else, what a waste a time.

>> No.4368996

>>4367138
Robin Williams found time to beat all of Zelda 1 without a guide and he was an adult. What's your excuse? You just don't have the same passion or drive anymore. Which is fine, but don't say you're not cheating, because it is cheating.

>> No.4369002

>>4368996
Robin Williams also used the ultimate cheat code by necking himself, so I wouldn't peg him as someone who values his time on Earth.

>> No.4369007

>>4369002
Edgy :)

>> No.4369071

>>4368808
>Even if true this is just pointless nitpicking argument, since you'll still have the looked down upon behaviours
Nigga, the only people who "look down" upon these behaviors are autists, who even other nerds look down upon for being angry, confrontational, and nitpicky by default. In another thread, some other autist is looking down on your for using an emulator and someone in another thread might look down upon that dude for not using an official copy of the game. So what's the fucking point?
>>4368876
>if I go through and rig the deck to play Solitaire so that every single card is the exact card I need when I need it as they draw them, am I even playing Solitaire anymore?
Yes, a game of rock paper scissors doesn't stop being rock paper scissors just because I know what my opponent is going to throw out.

>> No.4369078

>>4368996
>you don't have the same passion and drive anymore
Nigga, it's a video game, the fuck? Not everyone has hours of free time and the energy to actually use it.

>> No.4369105

>ITT: If you've ever used lotion to masturbate, you're not a true wanker like me, you're just cheating. Also, it's no longer wanking because...REASONS!

>> No.4369138

>>4369105
Not really a fair comparison. Literally no-one has a problem with people using save states in single-player games. There's nothing wrong with enjoying a game in your own way. The issue is very simply that using save states makes 99% of retro games far easier, and that your skill level will be automatically lower because of it since you get no proper practice. It obviously depends on how you use them - using them at the level select screen of a Mega Man game is essentially a shortcut for using passwords, for example, and no-one who isn't autistic is gonna look down on you for not entering the password every time or for not beating the game in one run every time.

>>4369071
>Yes, a game of rock paper scissors doesn't stop being rock paper scissors just because I know what my opponent is going to throw out.

While that's true, it does stop being a -fair- game of Rock Paper Scissors. It trivializes the game.

Imagine that you, an amateur, are standing back to back with a professional basketball player in the middle of the court. You're each aiming at the hoop on your side, obviously. By the time it takes you, an amateur, to land a single shot, the professional player's already scored fifty times. The argument that keeps popping up in this thread is 'Well, I managed to score, so this means I'm equally skilled as the other guy', which is obviously not true. Maybe you're not an amateur, maybe you're actually really good at the game...Why, then, didn't you score the same amount of times?

Seriously, I don't see why this needed to be such a long discussion. Using save states is fine, but you're not developing any skills if you do it too often in a game.

>> No.4369212

>>4369138
>Not really a fair comparison.
Keep telling yourself that sport.
> Literally no-one has a problem with people using save states in single-player games.
>The issue is very simply that using save states makes 99% of retro games far easier, and that your skill level will be automatically lower because of it since you get no proper practice.
I think you're through.

>> No.4369218

>>4369212
You a pro social justice leftist by any chance? Just curious

>> No.4369220

>>4369138
>While that's true, it does stop being a -fair- game of Rock Paper Scissors.
Wow, way to move them goalposts fucktard.
>The argument that keeps popping up in this thread is 'Well, I managed to score, so this means I'm equally skilled as the other guy', which is obviously not true.
Wow, I thought food analogies were shit but at least they try to stay on topic. Let me make it simple for you.
>Multiplayer: Player vs. Player
>Single Player: Player vs. Self
You're right though, we didn't really need 400+ posts for this garbage but hey, that's autism for you I guess.

>> No.4369243
File: 5 KB, 211x239, 1509583561129.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4369243

>>4369220
>u cant compare two players skills unless their in direct competition with one another

>> No.4369248

I do use savestates sparingly. Like at the beginning of each level or every 20 minutes or so.

The reason I am doing this, is because I don't want to spent huge amounts of time into a game. It's 2017, there are literally hundreds of things to do.
>play other games, see movies/shows, work, take care of the house , etc

I can't spend 20 hours mastering an old game that I am just playing it for the sake of it.
The 80's and 90's were a different time. There weren't a lot of games, and they were expensive and you were a child with nothing to do etc.
Of course back then playing Alex Kidd 1 for 30 hours until you beat it made sense, because it was either that or tv reruns.

so yes I do use savestates because I ain't gonna live forever and I want to experience some part of old games I have missed or replay old classics in parallel with contemporary things.
>p.s. I also use fast forwarding in certain parts like loading etc.

>> No.4369254

>>4369243
>You must always be the best, even if you're not competing against anyone
Are you Asian by any chance?

>> No.4369261

>>4369248
>Inb4 YOU DON'T HAVE PASSION YOU SUCK FUCKING CHEATER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Don't worry spergs, I'm saving you the time.

>> No.4369268

>>4369254
No sweetie, you can be garbage all you want just don't be upset when others point it out :)

>> No.4369273

>>4369243
You can, but what's the point? People play differently when they're competing against other people.

>> No.4369291

>>4369268
Garbage relative to what exactly? Because all I've seen is a bunch of spergs claiming that they're gods of vidya without actually posting anything to prove it.

For all I know, y'all niggas are trash and you're too far up your own asses to accept it. I mean, why else would you care so much about proving that you're better than some random dude on the internet unless you suck so badly that you always got something to prove.

But hey, looking forward to the next ebin meme that jumps to conclusions based off zero evidence again.

>> No.4369293

>>4369218
/pol/ go and stay go.

>> No.4369307

>>4369291
lmaaao youre trash compared to anyone who plays without savestates since you cant even prove that you can beat games without them you sad queer

>> No.4369312

>>4369307
Wow, I must've touched a really sensitive nerve for you to start projecting like that.

>> No.4369317

>>4369312
What a feminine response

>> No.4369319

>>4369317
Yep, hit the nail right on the head. You're trash and you overcompensate to make up for it.

>> No.4369325

>>4369319
>you shit on x therefore you must be x
The typical cookie cutter libshit response, you taking estrogen pills or is it natural?

>> No.4369331

>>4369325
Figures the guy with an inferiority complex is a /pol/lack. Tell me again how minorities are the reason why you're a kissless virgin.

>> No.4369340

>>4369331
They're all like that. It's delightful.

>> No.4369343

>>4369331
That's rich coming from the """man""" who spent the thread passive-aggressively whining about how meanie gamers hurt "his" wittle feelings by calling him bad at games ;(

>> No.4369357

>>4369343
>Your manhood is proportionate to how good you are at playing a video game by yourself.
Man, you sure showed me I guess. Too bad the only thing your crush is interested in is Jamal's 9 inch member, otherwise she'd realize how good you are at space invaders.

>> No.4369369

This whole thread has been hilarious, it reminds of the smash threads I used to frequent where the Sm4shfags would shit on melee fags because they thought wave dashing and L-canceling was cheating.

Keep it real /vr/, can't wait for this thread to be repeated over and over again now that the shitposters realize that it's a goldmine of (you)'s.

>> No.4369371

>>4369357
Looks like you and "my crush" have common interests then, creampuff

>> No.4369375

>>4369371
Is that really the best you can do? I thought /pol/lacks were all about banter?

>> No.4369378

>>4369340
I love how this sperg can only say "URAGAY!" now. I guess he can't fallback on the "I'm better than you" shit now that he's been exposed as a shitter.

>> No.4369387

>>4369375
I tone it for you, wouldn't want you to slit your wrists because of cyberbullying

>> No.4369391

>>4369378
Well since you're desperately wanting to give this a shot, what's the hardest game you've ever beaten without using save states?

>> No.4369393

>>4369387
Sure you did sweetie, whatever you say.

>> No.4369401
File: 89 KB, 575x804, battle kid fortress of peril.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4369401

>>4369391
Probably pic related?

>> No.4369406

>>4369401
Actual /vr/ game, not a new NES game

>> No.4369413
File: 29 KB, 300x240, goalposts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4369413

>>4369406

>> No.4369415

>>4369413
Sort of, hoping for a game that's actually worth playing not that janky baby's first platformer crap

>> No.4369418

>>4369406
>>4369415
>Post a game you've beaten w/o save states
>Sure here's [game]
>THAT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE REASONS!!
Like clockwork. You shitters always come up with excuses when you get BTFO!

>> No.4369426

>>4369418
Don't get me wrong it counts, I just quit the game after the fish boss so I have no idea how hard it gets

>> No.4369428

>>4369426
So you quit because you're shit, gotcha.

>> No.4369431

>>4369428
Nah just wasn't a very fun game. Every beaten R-Type? Contra at least?

>> No.4369448

>>4369431
>Any game I can't beat isn't fun.
I thought you were supposed to be better than me since you didn't use save states? For the record, I beat both those games without save states too, so what's your excuse going to be this time shitter?

>> No.4369451

>>4369448
Record a yourself beating R-Type, I'll do the same. We can agree on a set of in-game actions to perform and the initials to enter for score. Can use .inp files to make sure no save state abuse is going on. Up for the task?

>> No.4369456

>>4369428
>>4369431
I don't want to follow this whole shitfest back to the start, is the argument here that using save states makes you suck?

The only shmups I played all the way to completion are Darius Gaiden, Gradius V, Galactic Attack and Gaiares. I don't know about the first three but most seem to count Gaiares hard when it's brought up.

Now I play most retro games with save states purely for convenience and it hasn't messed up my ability from what I've seen.

>> No.4369462

>>4369456
The argument is that if you only play using save states and quit games after beating them once like that, you most likely suck at the games. Did you 1cc them?

>> No.4369463

>>4369451
>>4369462
I can't imagine how pathetic your life must be if you're this desperate to save face on an anonymous image board. Take solace in the fact that your shame will be erased once the thread eventually 404's.

>> No.4369465

>>4369463
Backing out of it? And here I was thinking I won't out-autism you in the end

>> No.4369475

>>4369462
Never 1cc'd no. With almost all games once I finish it once I'm done forever. Only if I really love it do I go back, just too much other stuff. I'm also this guy though, most repetitive games I never played enough to finish once, those ones were a couple I found interesting enough >>4368698

I'll for sure agree with this though, I am far better at Gaiares which I did play normally than any of the games since that I used sace states on. But also that was a game I was playing because it was a fun challenge, not just brute forcing to see what the game has in it.

>> No.4369479

>>4369465
You're more than welcome to go first anytime friend, don't let me stop you. Do a figure 8 at the start of the game and use the initials FAG so we all know it's you m'kay?

>> No.4369485

>>4369475
Yeah, it's not a controversial opinion by any means outside of one guy here, who insists that playing like this doesn't have any negative effect on your skills at a game and that it's not cheating in any way. I can understand playing with savestates perfectly well, and not wanting to replay singleplayer games in an autistic manner because it can get tedious very quickly. Using savestates for practicing, and then doing full runs is a good middle ground for me. It can still be tedious, but IMO it's worth it overall.

>> No.4369493
File: 85 KB, 492x280, doubt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4369493

>>4369485
>Yeah, it's not a controversial opinion by any means
>526 posts/18 files/76 IPs

>> No.4369502

>>4369485
Well I'll also say that I think if I put the same effort in I would still have been able to beat it. But whether playing traditionally or with save states is a faster way of getting there I can't say.

The main difference I see is that with the ones I mentioned, I put a lot more time into learning and getting good at them. So it would be very odd if I wasn't better at a game I put 50 hours in than one I put 5 hours in.

>> No.4369508

>>4369493
It's basically two guys sperging out with a few other people chiming in here and there

>> No.4369513

>>4363901
this

>> No.4369521

>>4369502
Well yes, you'd be good if you put effort into getting good, that goes without saying. What savestating does is lower the skill floor of any given game. Games that would otherwise require you to put 50 hours into beating them will require you to put only 5 if you use save states. Technically speaking you could get just as good with both savestates and full runs, but the latter is especially good at encouraging and forcing you to get better to finish a game, while with savestates it's entirely optional.

>> No.4369523

>>4369521
Don't you have a R-Type playthrough to finish?

>> No.4369524

>>4369508
Sure, it's only two spergs ITT, I believe you.

/s

>> No.4369546

>>4369521
I agree with that I think it just depends on what you want out of a game. If I really like it I will both want to play it more and want to build skill.

So say Puyo Puyo I see no point in save states, what I like isthe gameplay so even easier early opponents are still fun because I can work on my chains and shit. As a result I'm pretty good at it.

By the same token there's Metal Slug which I always thought looked amazing but I find super boring to play. So in recent years I've gone though them, but with little effort put in to getting good. Just pushing through to see the settings.

I think both are valid uses for a game though.

>> No.4369549

>>4369523
Done, your turn
/file/5h8gh7 on sendspace

>> No.4369554

>>4369546
Yeah I agree, if you deliberately force yourself to do unfun shit just for the sake of authenticity or challenge then it's missing the point of games.

>> No.4369561

>>4369554
Yeah I think all that's really important to remember is that games exist for the purpose of having fun. And since different people have different ideas of what's appealing like that, they will do different things.

>> No.4369660
File: 55 KB, 720x405, 17854761_1010559655741526_7780333612891653602_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4369660

>Be at an anime con with friends
>Playing imported games in the maxed out arcade in a cleared out gymnasium
>mini SF tournament
> a bunch of spergs constantly trying to devalue each others gamer accomplishments
>even beating games on an emulator "doesn't count"

This shit is the definition of inane.

>> No.4369702

>>4369660
Which con?

>> No.4369704

>>4369549
I wonder what would happen if I decided to upload your video to youtube and claim it as my own. It's not like you'd be able to prove it's actually yours.

>> No.4369715

>>4369704
Huh? The only people who would care at all are in this thread and they've seen his link already.

>> No.4369816

>>4369660
>even beating games on an emulator "doesn't count"

only if the emulator isn't cycle accurate, tbf.

>> No.4369893

>>4369702
Otakon a few years ago

>> No.4370276

>>4369660
>even beating games on an emulator "doesn't count"
It shouldn't, you're not playing on the original hardware and it's mostly poorfags who think they're hot shit for stealing the game to play on their overpriced rigs.

It's funny how PCfats ITT brag about not using save states when they're still plebs who aren't getting the original experience.

>> No.4370294

>>4370276
cycle accurate + original controller is literally the original experience.

>> No.4370302

>>4370276
>when they're still plebs who aren't getting the original experience
Is it supposed to be a bad thing?

>> No.4370346

>>4370294
That's like saying that sharks and snakes are the same meat just because they both taste like chicken.
>>4370302
It's alright if you're okay with always being second best to people who played games on the original hardware.

>> No.4370353

>>4370346
No it isn't.
Cycle accurate is literally as if it was running on the hardware. You won't win this.

>> No.4370359

>>4370346
>you're okay with always being second best to people who played games on the original hardware
Absolutely. In the case where original hardware cannot be emulated properly(or better), I would prefer the original, though.

>> No.4370380

>>4370353
And if nobody told you, you'd swear that the snake you was eating was chicken. You're not winning this one.
>>4370359
>Actually settling with being a cuck.
I'd feel sorry for you if you didn't make me laugh so hard.

>> No.4370386

>>4370380
>>And if nobody told you, you'd swear that the snake you was eating was chicken.

if I had scientific proof that the DNA and proteins that I was consuming was chicken, how could it be snake?

>> No.4370394

>>4370386
read >>4370380
>if nobody told you
Then again, I could believe that you'd be autistic enough to bring a DNA sampling machine to dinner for no reason whatsoever.

>> No.4370398

>>4370394
but I'm not eating snake, it's chicken because I have DNA evidence. Are you dumb?

>> No.4370401

>>4370380
>I'd feel sorry for you if you didn't make me laugh so hard.
I'm glad that I've uplifted your mood, anon.

>> No.4370404

>>4370398
And just because your emulator is "close" to the original hardware doesn't mean that it's actually like the original hardware.

Glad you understand.

>> No.4370409

>>4370401
Natural born cuck KEK

>> No.4370412

>>4370404
so if I'm playing cycle accurate emulation (i.e. 100% accurate to a real hardware, possibly even more consistent due to the fact that a bit won't randomly flip on it) and nobody told me that it was emulation I would think it was the real thing? How's that bad again? That just means cycle accurate emulation is that accurate.

>> No.4370416

>>4370409
Yep, that's me alright.

And now for something completely different.
Are there any emulators which implement save states as a tree, so you can see which point was branched from which?

>> No.4370417

>>4370416
Look into the ones used for TAS runs. If anything had a feature like that it'd be those.

>> No.4370418

>>4370412
Because it's not the original hardware, it's a very close approximation. It's the technological equivalent of the uncanny valley, it's so perfect that it doesn't even resemble the original hardware anymore.

>> No.4370421

>>4370418
>very close approximation

Nope, it's an exact cycle-accurate emulation. Approximation and emulation aren't the same thing. I can understand why you might be confused though, ZSNES users often are.

>> No.4370451

>>4370421
You realize the flaws are what it real right? You're not actually playing the game, you're playing the babby version that removes all the minor flaws that make games so memorable in the first place.

It's like you copy pasted the mona lisa and are now claiming to be an artist, what a joke KEK!

>> No.4370452

>>4370451
It's cycle-accurate so it doesn't remove or add any flaws. Still wrong.

>> No.4370457

>>4370452
>It's cycle-accurate so it doesn't remove or add any flaws.
Wrong >>4370412
>100% accurate to a real hardware, possibly even more consistent due to the fact that a bit won't randomly flip on it
Just admit that you're pleb and move on, you're not winning this.

>> No.4370462

>>4370457
Not more or less accurate. If someone chose to shield their hardware from cosmic radiation, or their house happened to be naturally insular the same result would happen.

>> No.4370467

>>4370462
>Not more or less accurate.
Wrong >>4370412
>possibly even more consistent due to the fact that a bit won't randomly flip on it
Keep moving those goalposts though.

>> No.4370472

>>4370467
Consistency and accuracy are two different things. You're kind of dumb, aren't you?

Not only that, but you constantly overlook the things in posts that would cause your autismal bait to crumble away, like the cosmic radiation shielding.

>> No.4370476

>>4370472
>Consistency and accuracy are two different things.
And yet they'd both be better on an emulator apparently.

>> No.4370480

>>4370476
>Not only that, but you constantly overlook the things in posts that would cause your autismal bait to crumble away

>> No.4370484

>>4370480
I focus on the parts that are actually relevant and you deflecting only makes it easier to find holes in your argument.

Better luck next time pleb.

>> No.4370487

>>4370484
If you hadn't noticed, you lost this entire thread because all you have is autistic shitpicking and literally everybody disagrees with you. Clearly you like to live in a fantasy bubble, though, so it's okay I guess. I think you should seek the treatment you need, but you have to want it for yourself. We can't force you.

>> No.4370497
File: 654 KB, 680x510, 1448303945761.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4370497

>>4370487
>So BTFO he has to invent a narrative where he won.
I'm sure most people ITT thought you were a spastic and hoped you went away a long time ago.

>> No.4370503
File: 200 KB, 1500x761, 81ZA7WL0CaL._SL1500_[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4370503

>>4370497

Yes, there were swarms of thousands of Anons waiting to praise you for stating the agreeable and commonly accepted opinion that "save states aren't cheating"

>> No.4370507
File: 18 KB, 385x383, 1448587462868.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4370507

>>4370503
>He has to invent a narrative in which everyone who disagrees with him is the same person.
If that ain't the saddest thing I've ever seen.

>> No.4370513

>>4370507
Sorry but we aren't as dumb as you hope.

>> No.4370516
File: 22 KB, 441x327, 1487233586347.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4370516

>>4370513
>we

>> No.4370520

>>4370516
There's been a handful of other people that have come here to disagree with you because they either had nothing better to do or thought it was fun. Initially there was a storm of them but the majority had better shit to do, following that I argued with you until I got too sleepy and went to bed. Since then I've just been observing. You are a sad example of a person, truly. And your reaction images lead me to believe you're at least 30 years old, which only makes it worse.

>> No.4370535
File: 356 KB, 1214x1239, butthurt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4370535

>>4370520
>There were a ton of people disagreeing with you honest.
>Y-YOU'RE SAD >:'(
pic related is you right now.

>> No.4370539

>>4370535
I'm sorry, Anon. I really am. If there is reincarnation I hope your next chance goes better.

>> No.4370545
File: 41 KB, 500x504, 1494487544005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4370545

>>4370539
Literally (you) right now.

>> No.4370548

>>4370545
Take care, man. I'll be rooting for you.

>> No.4370557

>>4370548
>I'm going
>I-I-I really mean it this time.
I'm sure the thread will 404 long before you stop posting pleb. Oh well, keep living in your bubble while reality passes you by I guess.

>> No.4370634

>>4370346
>That's like saying that sharks and snakes are the same meat just because they both taste like chicken.

It's nothing like that at all, that's a horrible analogy.

>> No.4370638

I wonder how many people ITT actually thought the dude was being serious.

>> No.4370641
File: 3 KB, 698x1284, n8umjWj[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4370641

>>4370638

>> No.4370646
File: 13 KB, 236x285, fishc23a2368.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4370646

>>4370487
>troll thread is trolling
>more shocking news at 11!

>> No.4370652

>>4370641
All things considered, everyone ITT is retarded for biting the bait so many times.

>> No.4370678

>>4370276
see
>>4365380

>> No.4370684

>>4370678
you're quoting the same person twice. his autism knows no bounds.

>> No.4370689

>>4370684
this guy >>4365380 actually wasn't me.

>> No.4370703

>>4370678
What do you people mean by "count"? That's what I wonder.

>> No.4371024

Right now I'm playing Holy Diver and only using save states between stages or the continue screen.
It wouldn'd be different to leave the console turned on until I finish the game.

>> No.4371057

>>4371024
Cheater

>> No.4371862

reminder that I won

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