/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4331081]

Analogue Super Nt coming in 2018
$189

[Anonymous No.4331082]

>>4331081
that's a $189 wasted

[Anonymous No.4331095]

Already pre-ordered. I have an NT Mini on the way soon with the current batch too.

[babbage's gramps No.4331098]

OG HW based or FPGA? Will probably buy if FPGA with additional cores

[Anonymous No.4331102]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uZNHvyu-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkvH8G1gvWk

[Anonymous No.4331104]

>>4331098
Well it has an SD card slot like the NT Mini. Assuming this is Kevtris' work again I'm hoping for more 16bit cores to become available.

[Anonymous No.4331105]

>>4331095
[obligatory calling you a fag because you bought something new]

[Anonymous No.4331117]

>>4331105
Doesn't bother me. I already have a real SNES so this is just a frivolous purchase. It'll be fun to play some HD SNES on my livingroom TV on something as close as as possible to the real hardware without resorting to purchasing a framemeister or OSSC.

[Anonymous No.4331120]

jwdonal and his VeriSNES on suicide watch

[Anonymous No.4331129]

>wanting to play on hd

[Anonymous No.4331140]

>>4331129
>muh 14 inch PVM

[Anonymous No.4331143]

>>4331140
>not using a giant console TV

[Anonymous No.4331205]

>accidentally preordered black color
>no way to modify or cancel order on webpage
>send e-mail to support to try and correct order
>your request is being reviewed by our support staff, you can expect to receive a response within 24 hours

Fuck, I hate how companies like Amazon have spoiled us sometimes. I just hate how the black looks but I fucked up and clicked the wrong thing

[Anonymous No.4331212]

>>4331104
It's confirmed that Kevtris is involved with this.
https://retronauts.com/article/622/the-ultimate-nes-gets-a-super-follow-up-mdash-and-this-ones-priced-to-sell
>"Kevin joined Analogue full time late last year. He's been working on the SNES FPGA core for the last 14 months a mind-blowing amount of work and effort into just that single aspect of the product."

[Anonymous No.4331214]

>>4331095
>50 freedom for shipping

[Anonymous No.4331221]

>>4331212
That's excellent news that he's the guy behind the SNES core on this - although if he's working full time with Analog now, that makes me a bit less optimistic that we'll see more 16bit cores for the Super NT. Why give them away for free for one console when you can make more money by selling them as individual consoles?

[Anonymous No.4331227]

>>4331214
I live in the UK so I can also expect some import tax when it arrives. Such is life when buying shit from the US.

[Anonymous No.4331229]

Give us a good reason why someone wouldn't just buy a snes Mr. shill

[Anonymous No.4331232]

Has the SNES been fully decapped yet? How are they claiming perfect accuracy?

[Anonymous No.4331237]

>>4331221
Even if we don't get more cores, the price is a lot more reasonable for a single system, and we'll likely get hacked firmware allowing for roms to be accessed on an SD card at least

[Anonymous No.4331251]

>>4331140
>Not having a 20+ inch PVM

[Anonymous No.4331275]

Considering scalpers are selling the SNES Classic for ~$150, the pricing is really good imo.

[Anonymous No.4331278]

>>4331251
having any PVM is sweet

[Anonymous No.4331280]

>>4331229
it's HD and has built in everdriving

[Anonymous No.4331330]

why is it so ugly

[Anonymous No.4331336]

>>4331081
The regular NT I could understand but the SNES already has good as fuck RGB support so I don't see what the appeal would be here, especially for that price.

[Anonymous No.4331340]

>>4331081
Well at least they aren't gutting up consoles to make them this time. Honestly fuck them for doing that.

[Anonymous No.4331343]

>>4331336
It's pretty much guaranteed to have ROM loading support off of the SD card and actually sells for cheaper than an official SD2SNES. It eradicates the need for a Framemeister to play on modern TVs. It's an all-in one solution for far cheaper.

[Anonymous No.4331397]

>>4331081
I feel like 100% of the people buying this already have a Super Nintendo with all the good games
Prove me wrong

[Anonymous No.4331428]

>>4331397
Isn't that exactly the point? People who already have a library of games to play are the primary target audience. Yes it will likely have post-release rom launching support, but primarily it will be a way to upscale SNES cartridges to HD without sacrificing accuracy

[Anonymous No.4331449]

>>4331428
only complete fucking nerds care about accuracy unless you're really playing the real thing
ZSNES 4 LIFE

[Anonymous No.4331460]

>>4331081
Sounds great and all but how about special chip support? Will it be able to run all of them or only some of the usual suspects like DSP-1?

[Anonymous No.4331462]

>>4331460
the chips are on the games man

[Anonymous No.4331465]

>>4331460
Says 100% compatibility with all SNES and SFC games so... that includes the coprocessor games

[Anonymous No.4331473]

>>4331462
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant running the special chip games from the so-called "everdrive" or "SD-card" mode where the games themselves are digital instead of running cartridges.
Although now that I think about it, it's not like it's impossible to simply emulate games like Starfox or Kirby's Dream Land 3 on a PC.

[Anonymous No.4331478]

>>4331460
seem that for those you need the real carts or flascarts to get access to those on this device

[Anonymous No.4331486]

>>4331081
Is it in HD? Can I put games in wide screen? Does it have a save feature? SD slot?

[Anonymous No.4331509]

>>4331205
It's a fucking preorder, cool your tits, its gonna be ok

[Anonymous No.4331514]

>>4331486
Yes, Yes (but why would you want to?), Not confirmed but highly unlikely, Yes.

[Anonymous No.4331521]

>>4331514
Sweet, I'm pre-ordering this!!!

[Anonymous No.4331528]

Analogue have confirmed on twitter that the Super NY will have Super Gameboy support, 5x scaling, gamma boost (this was absent on the NT Mini I think) and 64 sprite mode.

[Anonymous No.4331532]

>>4331528
*Super NT duh

[Anonymous No.4331534]

>>4331528
And fucking Squarepusher has created the Super NT boot up audio, daaaamn.

[Anonymous No.4331539]

>>4331473
If it's anything like the NT Mini (which is likely) Kevtris will release several other cores for it (including the SNES + Romloader one).
Since it's Kevtris we're talking about I think it's highly likely he'll add support emulation for those chips as well at some point.

[Anonymous No.4331548]

[Anonymous No.4331556]

>>4331548
I'm on board with this. If it means less underage shitposters spending their parents' money and depleting stock, who gives a shit if they say ignorant things about it?

[Anonymous No.4331557]

>>4331539
The issue with those expansion chips is that they'd use up a lot of space on a FPGA to duplicate, so it might not be possible in a romloader core

[Anonymous No.4331567]

>>4331557
You might be right about that.
All I can hope is for that to have thought/planned ahead.
I know they already said it's "unofficial" even for the nt mini but it's such a big boost for sales that I don't really believe that.
So maybe they even went for perfect compatibility even with a SNES SD core. Time will tell I guess.

[Anonymous No.4331629]

Reading the comments section on various articles, a lot of people seem to be going nuts over the transparent version. Am I the only person that thinks that transparent hardware looks crap?

[Anonymous No.4331642]

>>4331629
I think it 'can' look nice on handhelds.
I definitely wouldn't want a transparent fucking console...

[Anonymous No.4331685]

>muh fpga

[Anonymous No.4331706]

>>4331343
Snes + Super Everdrive saves you a LOT more

[Anonymous No.4331710]

>>4331706
super everdrive is absolute trash, if you're gonna be a poorfag at least get a chinese sd2snes

[Anonymous No.4331716]

>>4331706
But it'll look shite on a HDTV without a Framemeister or OSSC

[Anonymous No.4331717]

>>4331710
$100
Ouch

[Anonymous No.4331737]

>>4331716
Not really

>>4331710
>chinese sd2snes
Why?

[Anonymous No.4331742]

>>4331716
>framemeister
Just plug your fucking RF switch into the coax on an HDTV
It isnt hard

[Anonymous No.4331753]

>>4331737
Yes really.

The majority of HDTVs interpret and display 240p signals as 480i. This means that flashing sprites often won't appear on screen as the interlaced image may only display the frames where the sprite is invisible. Generally most TVs video precessors cause far more lag upscaling the image than a dedicated and more powerful processor like the Framemeister. Most TVs built in processors also create a soft and blurry image, and are particularly bad with moving images, creating significantly more motion blur than using a dedicated upscaler like the Framemeister.

[Anonymous No.4331763]

>>4331753
First of all every TV here has scart which makes it look decent at the very least. Second I never noticed ANY kind of lag or motion blur. (and yes, some of the systems I own display 60fps) I can play Punch-Out for example just fine

[Anonymous No.4331781]

>>4331629
>>4331642
It looks... okay. But I would hate it, especially if some dirt gets inside or time causes dust to accumulate. Being able to look at that stuff inside but not able to clean it without opening would be torture. I'd rather just remain ignorant of the insides

[Anonymous No.4331785]

>>4331763
I'm EU so believe me, I know all about scart.

It depends on what you as an individual deems acceptable. When I got back into retro gaming I started out with my SNES and a scart cable directly into my HDTV but I wasn't happy with the image quality and other compromises which led me to researching how to get a better image. I got a Framemeister and I wouldn't ever go back. Straight up input into HDTV vs using a Framemeister is like night and day, there's no comparison for me.

[Anonymous No.4331790]

What's the difference between this and an emulator, other than less latency?

[Anonymous No.4331794]

>>4331785
Maybe, I could always use a CRT

[Anonymous No.4331804]

>>4331794
That would be the best solution of all but on a different wavelength to the original argument - the cost of the Analog Super NT vs the cost of a SNES, flashcart and quality upscaler for playing your SNES games on a HDTV in high quality.

[Anonymous No.4331809]

>>4331804
So this thing does only support HDMI? Why would you buy such a thing for a 4th gen and lower console?

[Anonymous No.4331821]

>>4331809
For me, I'm stuck in an area where getting a proper CRT is nearly unfeasible and the cost of getting a SNES + associated items is roughly the same.

So the Super NT is a great deal for me so that I can still play both my japanese and english carts without fuss.

[Anonymous No.4331824]

>>4331809
that is the whole point. Crystal clear picture, no need for upscales, works on every tv.

[Anonymous No.4331825]

>>4331095
>51$ shipping

[Anonymous No.4331828]

>Analogue Super Nt coming in 2018
So, they won't ship until 2022?

[Anonymous No.4331834]

>>4331824
Never heard of HDMI CRT tv's

[Anonymous No.4331841]

>>4331548
>also I'm bi

[Anonymous No.4331939]

Kevtris speaks

>Yep, I been at work. sorry 'bout that. hehe. I can't really answer a lot of questions yet, but I can say these things:

>Yes, this is 100% my FPGA design here and it is not one of the other SNES cores.

>It runs all custom chip carts, super gameboy (1 and 2), game saver+ (lol), even tested a doctor sf disk based thinger, and the sd2snes is what I used during dev so that works great as well. I tested the Sufami Turbo and that works as well. Basically it runs every single thing I can stuff into the cart slot. I did a lot of testing with dozens of carts and all the various add-on devices I have and could find. I have not tested the MSU-1 but since the SD2SNES itself works 100%, I don't see why this won't work either. I will try it soon just to confirm. Audio input on the cart slot is supported and that's mainly what it adds.

>There's a completely new scaler designed specifically for this (vs. the nt mini's) and I spent a lot of time to make sure video output is the best it can be. It's still zero lag like before or you can have the fully buffered experience like on the framemeister.

>Yes it does do deinterlacing so RPM racing works as well as the menu screens and such that use that.

>There is a cool blending mode so i.e. Jurassic Park's overlays and Kirby's Dreamland 3 look great (you can turn that on/off) too. Scanlines were improved and gamma correction is in there if you prefer it to have that CRTish look.

>Yes, it uses the Cyclone V similar to the mini but it's the A4 version instead of the A2 so lots more resources! (yeay)

>I tested all the SNES peripherals except the light gun, and they work fine including multitaps, the mouse, etc.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-149#entry3869431

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4332237]

>>4331104
>>4331212
>be basically sold

>>4331221
>>4331237
>be unsold again

I'll be watching the various announcements. I can't imagine they'll underproduce them though. The Retro AVS never was backordered was it?

[Anonymous No.4332245]

>Was going to buy an analogue Nt Mini
>Find out the Audio isn't the same as a NES
>Now this gets announced

Did I dodge a bullet here? This is no doubt going to have NES rom support eventually.

[Anonymous No.4332303]

>>4332245
As easy as it would be to provide an NES core to the Super NT, do you honestly expect them to willingly cannibalize sales of their $450 NT Mini?

Yes they are unauthorized firmware patches, but I can't imagine they'll allow Kevtris to port firmware to allow that. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they prohibit him from releasing cores for systems that the Mini already does

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4332307]

>>4332245
I'd like to have no doubt, but I have some slight doubt. Hopefully Analogue and Kevtris wouldn't fuck us like that. It still won't have "accurate" analog sound though. It would need to have real APUs in it not just cores. For me, it's actually the Genesis that has the best chiptunes on a good console but there's so many different ones there's not even one "authentic" sound.

I think being able to tune it yourself through the menu (presumably saved on a game-by-game basis) is more than acceptable,

[Anonymous No.4332503]

I like the tiny form factor, Kevtris was involved so I suspect alternative cores and jailbreaking will be a thing, so you could probably play roms off the SD card eventually. Just not sure about how kevtris will implement the cartridge based chips like the super FX when the SD2SNES doesn't even do it.

I will buy it in the SFC style. But i'll probably hold off until near release day.

[Anonymous No.4332505]

>>4331825
he's clearly not in the USA. USA is around $20

[Anonymous No.4332657]

>>4331095
>controller not included

[Anonymous No.4332658]

>>4332505
asking for more than $20 shipping to any place worldwide is jewery

[Anonymous No.4332984]

>>4332503
The difference between Super FX support in the system vs the cartridge, is that the cartridge needs to accurately emulate the inner workings of the SFX, which currently can't be easily done. The system just needs to know how to interpret the output from the SFX cartridge. The cartridge handles all the heavy lifting in those scenarios. sure it means we probably won't get SFX rom support, but SFX cartridges have the necessary hardware to do the job

[Anonymous No.4332993]

>>4331117
This thing is roughly the price of an OSSC anyway, and that will support more than one console. Wouldn't that be a smarter choice if you already have an SNES?

[Anonymous No.4333009]

>>4331340
Absolutely, I'm on the fence about supporting them because of that bullshit. Also I would need confirmation that this will support the other FPGA cores that the NT did. More interested in 8bit support than 16 tbqhfamicom.

[Anonymous No.4333023]

[Anonymous No.4333048]

>>4331095
>order NIGGER
>Thank you NIGGER
>NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG NIGG
>the price
>definitely not a nig

[Anonymous No.4333186]

>>4331742
Yes, because having the video quality look like total fucking garbage is what you want.

[Anonymous No.4333192]

>>4331081
>board bitches about paying for Nes/snes mini
>will pay 200 quid for a knock off snes.

[Anonymous No.4333214]

>>4333192
apples and oranges, hombre.

[Anonymous No.4333249]

>>4333192
>nes/snes mini
>emulation issues out the ass
>nt
>perfect recreation

Totally the same thing

[Anonymous No.4333490]

>>4331790
Far, far more accurate image quality since it's a hardware clone and not emulated. Look on YouTube to see comparisons between the NT Mini and various emulation boxes.

[Anonymous No.4333498]

>>4332657
It's basically just a fancy reshell of the older 8bitdo SNES pad anyway, it's only another $30 on top of that from Amazon.

[Anonymous No.4333517]

what's the over/under on this supporting NT style cores and SD card ROM loading? I'm not sure if I should pre-order, I'm kind of anticipating they'll lock it out since Kevtris is working for Analogue now, and they could make more money selling other clones instead.

[Anonymous No.4333532]

>>4333249
>perfect recreation
it's still not a real SNES so wtf

[Anonymous No.4333568]

>>4331081
>$189
I'm not really knowledgable on these FGPA systems, but how is this so cheap when the Nt mini is like $500?

[Anonymous No.4333573]

>>4333568
The main gimmick of the original and mini NT was the aluminum case, this looks like it's made from plastic.

[Anonymous No.4333630]

>>4333573
They also saved on cost by not including analog circuitry.

[Anonymous No.4333660]

>>4333630
Do you think they'll ever make one with analog? Kinda a deal breaker without it. Also

>Analogue
>no analog

[Anonymous No.4333662]

>>4333517
>Kevtris is working for Analogue now

I’m pretty sure Kevtris is doing this on contract; his full-time job is at a cryogenics company.

Analogue is basically serving as a commercial outlet for his reverse-engineering and FPGA hobby projects. (These things take a lot of time and effort, which is why he doesn’t open-source them) It’s possible that the terms of his new contract forbid him from releasing any more unofficial firmware, but I don’t know if Analogue would want the inevitable public backlash from such an obvious money grab, were they to (for example) refit the exact same Super Nt FPGA in a plastic Genesis shell running Kevtris’s Genesis core.

The cat’s been out of the bag since the Nt mini jailbreak, and it’s going to be very hard to put it back.

[Anonymous No.4333710]

>>4333662
That makes perfect sense, I'm on the fence about pre-ordering due to the uncertainty. It could literally be the perfect replacement for the Wii 2 HDMI setup I currently have going on. I just want a all-in-one retro solution that's a box I plug into my TV and I can use for like years and years to come. 1080p FPGA sounds ideal, but I'm way more interested in 8-bit stuff, personally. The Wii is just a little long in the tooth.

[Anonymous No.4333935]

>>4333490
Is it that much more accurate than something like Higan?

[Anonymous No.4334032]

>>4331212
Sourcecode or it didn't happen.

Analogue NT say that they preserve video game history but if they don't share the FPGA definition file they do nothing about it

[Anonymous No.4334035]

>>4333935
higan recreates the SNES in software, while the Super Nt does the same in hardware.

Software comes with a number of disadvantages, mainly the hardware resources required (if you're shooting for 100% accuracy) and the many layers of indirection found in modern PCs.

Software emulators have to process and translate a ROM's 6502 (or whatever) assembly code into something that the OS can recognize and handle, constantly fighting with the OS for resources, while achieving the correct output that you'd get on the original hardware, while ALSO achieving playable speed. And there will always be some input lag, always.

It's why higan requires a high-clocked CPU, and why byuu wrote an entire article explaining what could possibly be done to mitigate (but not eliminate) emulator input lag. And if you're using an emulator not written by an insane perfectionist like byuu, then you're just wasting your time.

A complete and fully accurate reimplementation in a suitably powerful FPGA, on the other hand, is indistinguishable from real hardware. There is no x86 or ARM, no Windows or Linux, no PCI or USB, just bare metal. No random slowdowns or desyncing and no input lag.

Emulators are convenient simply because they are written for commodity PC hardware that everyone already has, but they will never beat an FPGA at authenticity.

[Anonymous No.4334042]

>>4334032
I don't mind if they keep it to themselves for now (Kevtris should be rewarded for such amazing work), but if Analogue should eventually go bust, I hope either they or Kevtris would publish the source (and related documentation) so that it's not lost forever.

As long as they're still in business and pumping out affordable clones at the current level of quality, it's all gravy.

[Anonymous No.4334052]

>>4333660
Why is it a dealbreaker?

[Anonymous No.4334060]

>>4334052
Purists will always want a CRT so that they don't get crawling/shimmering pixels when the picture is scaled to the correct aspect ratio.

Also old-school light guns like the Super Scope don't work with LCDs.

[Anonymous No.4334069]

>>4334032
>they do nothing about it
Except release a working model.

[Anonymous No.4334134]

>>4333568
The NT Mini had a variety of RGB analog outputs, two cart connectors, a built in microphone, four controller ports, a FDS port and a machine aluminium case. Also it included the 8bitdo controller and wireless receiver whilst the Super NT has this sold separately. Basically the NT Mini was super fucking premium on features and the cost reflected that. The Super NT is very stripped down in comparison but the cheaper price should give it a wider appeal.

[Anonymous No.4334148]

>>4334035
>they will never beat an FPGA at authenticity.
At least they won't when the FPGA is programmed by super-genius Kevin Horton who has twenty years of experience in replicating consoles on FPGA hardware.

[Anonymous No.4334175]

>>4331232
1. No
2. Marketing. You could sell these people ZSNES-on-a-chip and they wouldn't know any better

[Anonymous No.4334220]

>>4331081
$189 isn't a bad price, considering it's in the same neighborhood as a 1chip SNES that doesn't have HDMI.

I am guessing the cheaper price is in part because they are using plastic this time instead of machined aluminum. That is a good choice.

[Anonymous No.4334225]

>>4334060
>when the picture is scaled to the correct aspect ratio

I should clarify that I mean non integer scaling, which causes the shimmering effect.

[Anonymous No.4334253]

>>4331567
If the FPGA is powerful enough to simulate SNES cartridge chips, that gives me hope that Sega CD, 32X, and TurboGrafx-CD cores may be feasible as well. Not to mention Kevtris has been gung-ho on getting a Neo-Geo core to run in FPGA.

A man can dream.

[Anonymous No.4334296]

>>4334035
I honestly don't feel comfortable calling a FPGA hardware. If anything the mere fact it needs to be programmed makes it a blend of software and hardware.

It's never going to be good enough to be the real thing but it's almost capable of being a match for a really good emulator. It just gets stuck in the middle like some kind of Frankenstein hybrid.

>>4334253
Kevtris is solid, but wait for Zimba 3000. These trickling Analogue doodads are just a sideshow before the main event.

[Anonymous No.4334316]

>>4334175
Very true

[Anonymous No.4334341]

>>4334296
>It's never going to be good enough to be the real thing but it's almost capable of being a match for a really good emulator.

Any documentation that showcases this?

[Anonymous No.4334352]

>>4334296
>It's never going to be good enough to be the real thing but it's almost capable of being a match for a really good emulator.

A high-quality FPGA simulation is the closest you will get to original hardware.

NOACs are notoriously buggy, inaccurate, and cheaply made, and by their nature cannot be changed after manufacturing. And unless you're some Chinese company pumping out millions of these OEM NOACs for Retro-bit and Retron, it is prohibitively expensive to design and build your own.

Emulators, even with the loftiest goals and beefiest hardware, still have to compromise with the host OS and underlying hardware controllers.

FPGA is the best of both worlds: the flexibility of software and the raw speed of bare metal, with the affordability of high-volume, off-the-shelf hardware. It's the best way to ensure that old games still play exactly as they did after the original hardware has become scarce and expensive.

[Anonymous No.4334471]

>>4334134
>FDS port
The FDS just uses the cartridge slot
The extension port is for controllers

[Anonymous No.4334480]

>>4334352
Any FPGA is at the mercy of whoever programmed it and recreating every minute detail perfectly is a monumental task.

To even create such a perfect reproduction we'd already have to know every possible quirk in perfect detail and well...we don't, no-one does. Sure we can get close, but perfect means absolutely no room for error and we're just not there yet. NOACs are definitely shit, but it feels like the floodgates are steadily opening for shitty FPGA implementations as well.

Surprised no-one has stress tested the NT mini or the AVS given the myriad of NES test roms there are. As for the SNES, there is shit going on inside it in plain sight that literally no-one understands, so good luck to anyone who can try to clone it on a FPGA.

[Anonymous No.4334510]

>>4333532
Considering who is building the FPGA boards for these machines, it may as well be.

I want to see them do a Mega Drive/Genesis next, a machine similar to the old Wondermega would be especially killer.

[Anonymous No.4334521]

>>4331081
how does this compare to just using hakchi on a snes mini?

[Anonymous No.4334523]

>>4334480
You clearly missed the "high-quality" qualifier in my opening statement. Obviously the FPGA is at the mercy of its programmer, much like in software. But FPGA has inherent advantages over software assuming the same implementation.

And you're probably right; we don't know every last infinitesimal micro-detail about the SNES hardware. Hell, no one (even Kevtris) can yet figure out how to get Pinball Dreams to work in any Game Boy emulator / simulator without inaccurate hacks. Maybe someone should track down that game's programmer.

But to claim the Nt mini and AVS have not been extensively tested, both before and since launching, is simply not true. There are dozens of test ROMs and edge cases that the community has developed over the past 20 years, in addition to official test ROMs Nintendo designed for repair technicians. And Kevtris, a community legend and known perfectionist, has poured over a year of full-time work to make the Super Nt.

It's true that until Kevtris publishes his findings, we have no way to compare them with those of other scene members like byuu, but there is plenty of reason to believe that the Super Nt represents the best of what is currently known about the SNES hardware outside of Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.4334527]

>>4334521
SNES mini is just doing software emulation whereas this is a hardware solution.

[Anonymous No.4334528]

>>4334523
>represents the best...
just use a real snes and save yourself the bullshit

[Anonymous No.4334535]

>>4334523
Also, in regard to opening the floodgates, there have been FPGA clones of classic home computers like the C64 and Amiga for the past 15 years. If you want some good examples of shitty implementations that already exist, look no further than the many half-baked cores available for the MiST.

I doubt the Nt mini and Super Nt would get nearly as much attention if it weren't for Kevtris's reputation.

[Anonymous No.4334537]

>>4334523
>test ROMs
Most of those test roms don't work properly on real hardware, as they were developed on emulators.

Jesus christ, get Kevtris' cock out of your mouth, as a hardware engineer and a legitimate Electronics Engineer your blind faith in the FPGA as some cure all solution to problems gives me a headache. Kevtris is not some end all be all knowledge source on Gameboy hardware, or implimentation, and I'm legitimately curious why you think he is.

[Anonymous No.4334540]

>>4334523
Some independent testing wouldn't hurt. Not just a "lol mine is the best" rhetoric like the VeriSNES guy.

>>4334535
I don't pretend to know how the target audience thinks, but Analogue definitely made wider ripples with the original NT with the pricetag alone. Kevtris' escalating fame in these circles seems more recent somehow. If it were up to me I'd let him do his own thing with the Z3K.

As sceptical of FPGA systems as I am I'd still want one.

[Anonymous No.4334546]

>>4334537
You seem to perceive my enthusiasm for the Super Nt as an exaltation of its unquestionable flawlessness.

All I'm saying is that, unless you're a CRT / original hardware purist, for $190 it beats the piss out of buying a used 1chip SNES plus high-quality cables plus Framemeister / OSSC, or conversely using a software emulator, even one as admirably great as higan.

[Anonymous No.4334552]

>>4334546
>even one as admirably great as higan

Wow, which asylum did you escape from?

[Anonymous No.4334553]

>>4334552
Don't waste any more of your time trolling on 4chan and just go back to ZSNES.

[Anonymous No.4334558]

>>4331834
They're out there, I swear. There was one at my local thrift store a month ago priced at $25 but as novel as it was I simply had no place to put the 300lb beast.

[Anonymous No.4334561]

>>4334540
>Kevtris' escalating fame in these circles seems more recent somehow

The Nt mini only came out last year. It kinda put him on the map outside of the NESdev community where he was traditionally known.

The original Nt was just an original NES with a new body and a ludicrous, enthusiast-only price tag. He had not part in that.

[Anonymous No.4334567]

At first I was going to ask how the NT was successful enough to continue launching additional consoles.
And then I remembered the NT sold for like $500 and even selling two consoles would be a huge profit.

And now this time it's not even decent hardware, but an emulator on a chip. An emulator that can't run ROMs. This is basically the Retron5 all over again and this thread is full of people (or rather, person) hyping it up as better than the original. How are people excited for this?
Plus we all know the 8bitdo gamepad is garbage compared to the original, they never bothered fixing the diagonal input issue and continue to sell them for $30.
128 posts, 50 unique IPs lol

[Anonymous No.4334571]

>>4334567
Your cute disarming shrugging cartoon guy doesn't make you any less wrong about everything in your second paragraph.

[Anonymous No.4334574]

>>4334567
>128 posts, 50 unique IPs lol

Wow almsot as if people stay in the thread and talk about the topic instead of doing one meme hit and runs like you, huh?

[Anonymous No.4334575]

>>4334571
Your one-line post about the image I posted rather than my argument doesn't prove me any less right.

[Anonymous No.4334584]

>>4331081
NO RGB, NO SVIDEO $189
RASPI $69
PC EMULATOR $0

[Anonymous No.4334850]

That clear model does things to my dick.

[Swift S. Lawliet !!VIQsbxF6xwO No.4334920]

>HDMI-only

>>4333660
>>4334052
>>4334060
This.
The lack of an analog AV out is a huge dealbreaker for me.
I prefer playing on my BVM or my flat bedroom CRT.
Hopefully, they make a version with analog outputs at a later time.
Either as an analog-only system at the same price or a more expensive version with both analog and digital outputs.

[Anonymous No.4335008]

>>4334558
THEN SHOW ME HIS BODY

[Anonymous No.4335195]

>>4334052
autism

[Anonymous No.4335198]

>>4334584
>s-video
what did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.4335226]

>>4334850
They also managed to make the putrid colour scheme of the American SNES look good. Nintendo could literally learn a few things from their design department.

[Anonymous No.4335238]

>>4335226
Honestly if it wasn't so hideously expensive I'd grab one for loading ROMs onto.

[Anonymous No.4335259]

>>4331081
Maybe I am stupid, but what is the difference? why analogue?

[Anonymous No.4335378]

>>4335238
No guarantee you can even do that yet. I'm waiting to pull the trigger until it's confirmed.

[Anonymous No.4335715]

>>4335378
I'm like 90% sure they will. Unofficially of course, Analog are never going to splash it over their website but I expect Kevtris will release some jailbreak firmware in good time.

[Anonymous No.4335956]

Is the NES one good?, and did they make it compatible with carts from other consoles?

[Anonymous No.4336131]

>>4335956
Yes it's very good. Kevtris designed some prototype cartridge adapters but they haven't gone into production as yet.

[Anonymous No.4336303]

>>4335715
Never buy a product on promises of future features. And this time there hasn't even been a promise.

[Anonymous No.4336579]

Why do people assume it's going to be perfect when even Higan still isn't perfect after years and years of Byuu autism?

Not knocking Kevtris here, but FPGAs aren't some magic bullet; they still have to be programmed, and that programming relies on documentation and someone to implement it correctly, which is a monumental task with plenty of room for error. The SNES is a complex system and documentation is frequently lacking, or worse, incorrect. Kevtris is a good programmer who has been around for a long time, but he's still human. I'm sure it'll work and play SMW on your HDTV just fine, but let's cool it with the marketing hype. If you're really concerned about accuracy, wait until it actually exists and people can run tests on it.

For that matter, has anyone bothered doing PROPER, rigorous accuracy testing of the Nt Mini's cores? As in, not just running some popular game on it alongside the real hardware and declaring "LOOKS THE SAME TO ME GUYS"?

[Anonymous No.4336626]

>>4336579
People assume it's going to be perfect because outside of a monumental fuckup, Kevtris is a well-known factor (as you mentioned). People can be hype because they trust his work and calling him just a good programmer is a monumental understatement to the work he does as a developer.

Ultimately you have to decide how far you want to go with accuracy. Not even original SNES systems can be considered fully accurate over time as degradation causes failures and glitches. As mentioned earlier software has a lot of limitations and overhead that FPGAs simply don't have to deal with at the cost of being incredibly difficult to work with.

[Anonymous No.4336651]

In case Analogue shills are watching this thread, go tell your boss that I'm not buying this thing if you can't run other cores on it. But I'll buy two if you can.

[Anonymous No.4336653]

>>4331081
>No analogue/RGB output
The fuck good is it then?

[Anonymous No.4336660]

>>4336626
>accuracy doesn't matter because a real SNES isn't accurate either

[Anonymous No.4336662]

>>4336660
It's the opposite. Accuracy matters more than ever because the SNES like any console isprone to failure and degradation. The ideal is to get an easily reproducible, open-source hardware solution that is as close to a new SNES in accuracy as possible.

Eventually 'just buy a SNES' won't be an option anymore.

[Anonymous No.4336838]

>>4336626
I'm not denying Kevtris's contributions and credentials, and I'm not saying don't trust him to make a worthwhile product. I'm sure it'll do its job. I'm just saying he's not the god people here are treating him as. He makes mistakes and has to deal with imperfect documentation just like everyone else. Maybe let's wait for reviews and in-depth tests before we declare it the be-all end-all SNES replacement.

[Anonymous No.4336875]

>>4336838
MODERATION AND CIVILITY IN A RETRO CONSOLE THREAD??? WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!?

[Anonymous No.4337053]

Did they ever fix the Audio problems with the Analogue NT Mini? I don't own a real NES or a flash cart so I need to know if it's worth buying one (it has to be perfect)

THIS IS IMPORTANT

[Anonymous No.4337092]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkvH8G1gvWk

>The absolute fucking shit-tier audio on this thing
Right from the fucking Konami jingle it's instantly noticeable how fucking wrong it is. This is worse than fucking ZSNES levels of audio emulation.

[Anonymous No.4337118]

>>4337092
And they think it sounds good enough to show off. That's not a good sign.

[Anonymous No.4337170]

>>4334032
>they preserve video game history
So this is the excuse now for piracy

[Anonymous No.4337238]

>>4337092
>>4337118
For reference, here's the same clip recorded from a real SNES:
https://my.mixtape.moe/jxcgri.mp4

Decide for yourself.

[Anonymous No.4337249]

>>4336838
>imperfect documentation

Kevtris does his own reverse-engineering entirely from scratch; he doesn’t use others’ documentation.

[Anonymous No.4337286]

>>4337249
>he doesn't use others' documentation

Are you really this deluded? Of course he doesn't reverse engineer all of it himself. If a device uses an off the shelf part you can literally pull the datasheet from the manufacturer and it contains almost everything you'd need. Only a complete moron would think it worthwhile to spend years rediscovering every minute detail from nothing when it's all there to begin with in the form of someone else's documentation. In cases like Gamate or Gameking doing it from scratch was the only choice because there is literally no other choice.

[Anonymous No.4337378]

>>4337249
>he doesn’t use others’ documentation.

Off course he did. There are many stuff that can be implemented in FPGA in a similar way to software emulators and many stuff that were already reverse-engineered using test programs.

[Anonymous No.4337382]

>>4337092
Feels like the Konami Jingle is missing notes at the end and at the wrong pitch. Or maybe it just blends the notes together.

[Anonymous No.4337386]

>>4337092
>>4337238
What is wrong? I listened to both clips side by side with headphones and could hear no difference. Maybe I don't have snake-oil-tier headphones so I'm not allowed to judge, but it sounds identical. I went back and forth multiple times just listening to the Konami sound and I couldn't discern anything different about them. I don't am I being rused and someone uploaded the exact same source clip from the YouTube video in MP4 format?

[Anonymous No.4337391]

>>4337386
>I don't am I

Fuck I need to wake up more

[Anonymous No.4337394]

>>4337382
Probably some bug that will get ironed out, I'm not really anxious about that

[Anonymous No.4337418]

>>4337386
Other than the NT Mini sounding a bit cleaner, I don't hear a difference either.

[Anonymous No.4337447]

>>4337418
*Super NT

[Anonymous No.4337617]

>>4331081
>Not 4 controller ports available like they did for the NES.
Jews I say.

[Anonymous No.4337774]

>>4337418
>>4337418
>>4337394
>>4337391
>>4337386
>$0.60 has been deposited to your account

[Anonymous No.4337781]

>>4337774
a shekel for the good goy

[Anonymous No.4337828]

>>4337774
>>4337781

[Anonymous No.4338175]

>>4334920
Then just buy a regular SNES and a flashcart. This thing's whole gag is the HDMI out.

[Anonymous No.4338261]

>>4337828
>an additional $0.10 (+tip) coupon has been added to your account.

[Anonymous No.4338271]

>>4331081
>see-thru version
jesus christ man there's kids in here

[Anonymous No.4339210]

>>4337053
He say threre's not enough free space on the fpga to add a low pass filter to the shitty fds sound
so the audio will always be fuck up, still even better than the shittiest everdrive fds sound

[Anonymous No.4339214]

>>4339210
The best solution to FDS sound is to just get a real FDS RAM adapter and an FDSStick or similar. I assume it'll work fine in an NT Mini.

[Anonymous No.4339215]

>>4337092
the sound OMG what a piece of shit
and also no fucking rgb, composite or svideo
FUCK THIS SHIT!

[Anonymous No.4339650]

>>4339215
Why are you replying to yourself again? Nobody is buying your lie that it sounds noticeably different from original hardware

[Anonymous No.4339701]

well i compared them on a spectrogram view
looks like the NT wins baby. Sorry mr. Youtube

[Anonymous No.4341325]

>>4339701
What am I looking at here? Can you explain what that output means?

[Anonymous No.4341534]

me and my wife have already bought over 9,000 super anal log NTs.

In case you're still scratching your head, that means all of them. i bought the entire stock so there's no point in looking forward to this. Me and my wife just built the biggest living room in existence. She said she is no longer worried about the amount of space my game consoles take up so i have decided to buy 9,069 NTs 4,002 retron 5's and over 6 million SNES minis.

There is no reason for these threads since i am the future owner of all these console clones. Me and my wife have amassed a giant libray of 23 genesis games that we plan to play on our retro5/anal log NT until the end of time. It's quite humorous really, you sit on /vr/ while we are the literal kings and queens of retro video gaming.

[Anonymous No.4341538]

>>4341534

That's going in my pasta library, Anon.

>>4339701

Shouldn't the spectrographic outputs be virtually identical for the NT to "win"? That quite clearly shows the NT is not outputting sound like a genuine SNES.

[Anonymous No.4341691]

Seeing as l i t e r a l l y every review I came across for the NT Mini said it cured their cancer, fixed their broken marriage, and restored their foreskin I'm inclined to want this thing. I don't even know why I keep buying systems I own an original SNES, a memetron5 and a Classic but I still really want that SFC inspired one.

[Anonymous No.4341727]

>>4341691
Their customers don't seem to be the critical sort. I couldn't find anyone who did any real accuracy testing on the NT Mini for example, but plenty of people blindly parroting Analogue's claims of "100% accurate!!!!!" and "Reference™ Quality™!!!!!" What I do know is that the NT Mini has the same horizontal shimmering problems that the NES Classic was heavily criticized for, unless you fuck up the aspect ratio by putting it in integer scale mode. As mentioned above, it also doesn't have a proper low-pass filter for FDS expansion audio. So, clearly not perfect.

Will the Super NT have the similar problems? Who knows! Maybe it'll be an amazing product and perfect in every conceivable way, but we have no way of knowing until it's actually in the hands of people who are able and willing to give it an exhaustive, impartial review. In the meantime I'd advise not giving in to hype culture. It benefits no one but Analogue.

[Anonymous No.4341761]

>>4341727

Fair points on the audio and it's not like I'm an expert on accuracy, but from what I understand isn't the shimmer a result of scaling a 240p image to 1080p being the cause of the pixel distortion? Doesn't the image display fine at 720p? (why doesn't an FPGA console on the market at 4K either, it's a much more common resolution now and from what I understand is a perfect 16x scale of 240p)

Regardless I don't buy anything without at least a public consensus if not a trusted review, but the visual design of the system at least has me at half mast

[Anonymous No.4341771]

>clear/transparent
Yes.

[Anonymous No.4341814]

>>4341761
The problem comes from the NES/SNES pixels being slightly wider than they are tall (8:7 to be precise), whereas modern digital displays have fixed square pixels. That means there's no way to do an integer scale while maintaining the correct overall aspect ratio at normal HDTV resolutions. At 720p your choices are 3x horizontal and 3x vertical, which is too narrow, or 4x horizontal and 3x vertical, which is too wide. At 1080p you can do 5x horizontal and 4x vertical, which is still too wide, or 6x horizontal and 5x vertical, which is still a bit too wide and also cuts off the top and bottom of the image.

To correct the aspect ratio, you can vary the pixel widths, which causes distracting shimmering effects. That's what the NES Classic does. The better way is to do an integer pre-scale and use interpolation to bring the aspect ratio back. You lose a small, usually imperceptible amount of horizontal sharpness, but the shimmering goes away. That's what the SNES Classic does.

As for why the lack of 4K support, it mostly comes down to cost. Sufficiently large FPGAs are still bloody expensive. Too bad, because then you could do an 8x horizontal and 7x vertical integer scale and get the correct aspect ratio.

[Anonymous No.4341959]

Will it be like the Analogue NT mini, no emulation and a 100% accurate? If so, why is it less than half the price?

[Anonymous No.4341969]

>>4341727
>What I do know is that the NT Mini has the same horizontal shimmering

Not if you use integer scaling. The MLIG video advises which scaling settings to use.

[Anonymous No.4341972]

>>4341959
Because the plastic case and lack of analog outputs significantly reduce overall production costs per unit.

[Anonymous No.4341974]

>>4341959
>100% accurate
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.4342002]

>>4341727
>What I do know is that the NT Mini has the same horizontal shimmering problems that the NES Classic was criticized for

Shimmering pixels is a fundamental issue with old games designed to show non-square pixels on a CRT, since LCDs have a fixed grid of square pixels.

It’s not the fault of the game hardware. The only way to properly solve the problem is with integer scaling, and since the NES and SNES both have an internal resolution of 280 x 240 (and thus a 7:8 PAR), you would need a 2240 x 1680 display for a perfect picture (maybe a little less if you can deal with cropping some of the overscan).

The best you can do then is to find a 16:10 monitor that puts out at 1600p (unless you can deal with a large amount of letterboxing in addition to the existing pillarboxing on a widescreen display).

However, since these FPGA clones are designed for common 720p and 1080p TV resolutions, a proper 4:3 picture will be non-integer scaled. As you said, you can slightly widen the aspect ratio to 7:5 (1.4) using 6:5 integer scaling, with a 5% crop on the top and bottom of the picture. It’s up to you.

You can also use something like the Nt mini’s CRT filter to blur away the shimmering.

Bottom line is that playing retro games on an LCD inevitably comes with some compromises. I’m not the type that likes to hang on to old hardware, so it’s a tradeoff I’m willing to make. YMMV.

[Anonymous No.4342006]

>>4342002
>7:8

Shit, I meant 8:7

[Anonymous No.4342009]

>>4342002
>NT mini’s CRT filter

I meant NES Classic

[Anonymous No.4342010]

>>4342002
Thanks for explaining the same thing I just explained three posts above yours, with added incorrect math (hint: 256*8=2340, not 2240).

And CRT filters suck because scanlines don't work on LCDs. Just a simple linear interpolation to fix the aspect ratio is all you need, and you barely lose any sharpness.

[Anonymous No.4342019]

>>4342002
You don't need anything as heavy-handed as CRT filter to eliminate shimmering, just a bit of horizontal interpolation. Done properly you barely lose any sharpness. It's not a fundamental issue, just laziness on Analogue's part (and Nintendo's, but at least they've fixed it for the SNES Classic).

[Anonymous No.4342097]

>>4342019
I wasn’t aware of the SNES Classic’s interpolation. Is there an article or video somewhere that demonstrates it?

[Anonymous No.4342187]

>>4342002
informative thanks

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4342274]

>>4342002
The match checks out. Sucks to have more than enough space horizontally to display all the garbage at the sides of the overscan while still having your score or life bar noticeably cropped or at least crowded in the vertical overscan, but nostalgic since every tv back in the day had pretty big overscan set up by default.

[Anonymous No.4342385]

>>4342274
Depending on the game, there may be more overscan junk on the top than the bottom, or vice versa. The Nt mini (and presumed lay the Super Nt) let you shift the picture around to show more of one side and less of another.

[Anonymous No.4342391]

>>4342274
Depending on the game, there may be more overscan junk on the top than the bottom, or vice versa. The Nt mini (and presumably the Super Nt) let you shift the picture around to show more of one side and less of another.

[Anonymous No.4342431]

>Shitty super famicon/europoor design

[Anonymous No.4342434]

>>4341974
Well that's what they were aiming for and why they don't go with emulation.

[Anonymous No.4342441]

>>4342097
Not the guy you were talking, too. But I saw it on DF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOObbaqOaUQ.. Around the 5 minute mark. I hope retropie gets something similar to that.

[Anonymous No.4342782]

>>4342019
>horizontal interpolation
Can that be done on these FPGAs without introducing any delay at all?

[Anonymous No.4342792]

>>4342441
The \retro\pixellate shader in retroarch does that

[Anonymous No.4343159]

>>4342782
Yes, in principle you can do it with less than a scanline of delay.

[Anonymous No.4343190]

The design of the console is nice but I do not like the HDMI only or the price-point. Also it's still not very different from emulation

[Anonymous No.4343251]

I think the price and hdmi only are fine. The shipping is fucking ridiculous though. I'm in the US and they want $38.

[Anonymous No.4343254]

>>4342434
Doesn't mean they necessarily succeeded. FPGAs make certain things easier, but they still have to be programmed correctly, just like a normal emulator.

[Anonymous No.4343765]

So I guess there's not much left to say about this huh?