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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4326547 No.4326547 [Reply] [Original]

I own both real hardware and a modded Wii, and admittedly I prefer the convenience of the Wii.

But from a technical stand point, what are the Wii emulators doing to compensate for lack of power? The emulation seems as smooth as the original (I even set up two CRT’s next to each other to compare because autism) and even input lag seemed to same to me pressing jump at the same time. (I was using a GC adapter)

>> No.4326620

I don't know specifically, but the Wii Homebrew scene was just so active and commmunal man - lots of people doing lots of work, and every machine is the same ( unlike PCs where users have different hardware)

>> No.4326625

The Wii isn't that weak, got a 729MHz CPU somewhat related to a PowerPC G3, and has the advantage of having the separate ARM CPU handling a lot of the I/O functions reducing how much the main CPU needs to do, and no real multitasking, so can perform a bit better than what would be an otherwise equivalent PC. If you try a typical ~2001 PC with emulation software that aims more for performance over ideal accuracy you'll also get similar performance to a Wii.

It's not perfect though, compare real N64 or Neo Geo vs Wii VC or the homebrew emulators and you'll notice some frame skipping/slowdown. There will always be an extra few frames "input lag" compared to a real console due to a wide range of reasons.

>> No.4326653

>>4326547
>But from a technical stand point, what are the Wii emulators doing to compensate for lack of power?
Why should it? Emulating the SNES or Genesis isn't something miraculous. They could run on far weaker hardware, it's usually that our emulators are not efficient enough.

>> No.4326656

>>4326625
>There will always be an extra few frames "input lag" compared to a real console due to a wide range of reasons.
Emulators on some systems have actually less input lag these days then the real thing did.

>> No.4326662

>>4326653

I’m only going by things I’ve read over the years. People claiming the emulators use “speed hacks” and other tricks to get the games running full speed.

>> No.4327362

>>4326625

Neo Geo on VC is garbage, probably for the same reason that every 'official' Neo Geo emulator has been for years now. Final Burn Alpha on the other hand runs what it can close to perfect but can't boot a lot of games thanks to the Wii's lack of RAM, something nobody ever found a solution for unfortunately.

>>4326662

There were a lot of Wii emulators that used speed hacks over the years but I think the majority have been depreciated now, as people got more of an understanding of the hardware they were able to make adjustments. An example is the GBA which for a while only had VBA-GX which was an early emulator that always skipped frames even with speed hacks, but once a mGBA port specifically for the Wii was made, it ran perfectly and didn't require the same corner cutting.

>> No.4327386
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4327386

I'm glad someone made a thread about this because I've been wondering: why does it seem like the emulation is worse on a CRT than on a flat screen? I was playing Chrono Trigger and noticed some screen tearing on the world map and I certainly never saw that on my modern tv

>> No.4327414

>>4327386

I had this exact problem a few weeks back. right down to noticing it during Chrono Trigger. Is your Wii set to 4:3 in the system menu? If not, set it. Then make sure the emulator resolution is set to either 240p or 224p, by then it should be eliminated.

>> No.4327424

>>4326547
SNES emulation on the wii is undoubtedly not as smooth as a real SNES. It's not horrible, but it's like it drops a frame now and then. Doesn't really effect gameplay, I guess, but I find it noticeable enough to be annoying.

Most other consoles are pretty good, though. Wish GBA emulation was better.

>> No.4327452

>>4327414
Wow that's weird it was on CT for you too. I'm using the vWii inside the Wii U but I'm pretty sure I told it to go down to 4:3. Will check the emu resolution though, thanks anon

>> No.4327472

>>4327386
Make sure you have the video settings set to "Original", 240p, and original aspect ratio.

>> No.4327474
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4327474

Wii so good
I <3 piracy

>> No.4327518

>>4327474
I just got this to work on Wii U and with the Pro Controller. Feels ultra good, man.

>> No.4327626

>>4327424

mGBA runs at the full 60FPS for me on basically every game, only issue I've had is minor graphics bugs, mainly on hacked roms

>> No.4327758

>>4327518
>Gamecube game on wii u
This is a thing now?

>> No.4327768

>>4327758
That's a regular Wii, not the U.

And yes, a hacked Wii U can also play GC games through Nintendont.

>> No.4327771

>>4327758
Yeah, by hacking the vWii you can unlock the Gamecube. It was always on the Wii U but for some reason they locked it.

>> No.4327774

>>4327771
Probably because the disc drive can't handle mini discs or something.

Although I guess they could have sold GC games on the VC like they're doing on the Switch.

>> No.4327815

>>4327774
is a wii a good emulation device thinking of picking one up

>> No.4327826

>>4327771
But then what? There's no controller ports for gamecube on the wii u, so how are you supposed to play anything?

>> No.4327834

>>4327826
With a Wii U Gamecube controller, obviously.

>> No.4327841

>>4327815
The best emulation you'll get besides a PC. Personally I prefer using the Wii because of the classic controller and my CRT. Maximum comfy.

>> No.4327842

>>4327826

Wii U pro controller might be a little awkward at first but it'd be completely capable of playing every GCN game.

>> No.4327846
File: 450 KB, 200x200, 1483904754279.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4327846

>>4327834
>>4327842

You mean the dongle? That actually works? Excuse my skepticism, but isn't there some sort of additional setup to fool the wii u into thinking the dongle/pro controller is inserted into the "gamecube port"? I wouldn't have thought those covered the same connection bases.

>> No.4327848

>>4327846
No dude there is quite literally a Wii U GameCube controller. You can buy them at electronics stores.

>> No.4327851

>>4327848
https://www.nintendo.com/wiiu/accessories

First item.

>> No.4327856

>>4327848
>>4327851

I was under the impression those still had a gamecube port at the end of the cable. Interesting.

>> No.4327876

>>4327856
They do. Via Nintendont, though, you can use a USB GC adapter for controller support.

>> No.4327878

>>4326547
Wii emulators sacrifice accuracy for speed and rely on people with slow reaction time and low standards to not notice.

>> No.4327884

>>4327876
No they have the hookup that goes into a wii remote.

>> No.4327892
File: 55 KB, 436x495, 3a028b7d177fc494319551f3374b1aa231bbc72cf707e18887a22a6c5b554964.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4327892

>>4327815
I use it more than most of my other vidya machines at this point. It's really nice and 240p to a CRT is a good look for retro games. Well worth the $20 I spent on it.

>> No.4327893

>>4327884
Are you sure you aren't thinking of these?
https://www.amazon.com/PDP-Wired-Fight-Pad-nintendo-u/dp/B00LSBNSAO?th=1
https://www.amazon.com/HORI-Battle-Mario-Version-Turbo-u/dp/B00ND0E5ZU
The GameStop and Best Buy links on the page you linked very clearly show a GameCube plug.

>> No.4327895

>>4327878
I smell a hardwarefag

>> No.4327916

>>4327893
I probably am

>> No.4327961

>>4327452
I didn't think the Wii U could do 240p like the Wii?

>> No.4327967

>>4327878

>slow reaction time

LOL. I've beat Punch Out and Gaiden on the thing, that's without 'compensating for lag' or whatever the hell you idiots say. If you've got a wired connection, 240p and a good emulator there's no reason there should be any lag, it's not like these emulators of 20+ year old hardware are taxing on the system.

>> No.4327969

>>4327961

It can't, that anon would probably have to settle for 480p, but screen tearing shouldn't be an issue with the video settings configured properly.

>> No.4328000

>>4327846
just plug and play retard cunt

>> No.4328003

>>4327961
why you want that shitty resolution anyway just go for 1080p that the max output on the wiiu

>> No.4328021

>>4328003
240p is good for old games on CRTs. If the Wii U can handle GPU shaders then that's a potential use case for 1080p, though.

>> No.4328053

>>4327846
Yes, the gamecube controller adapter (either the official nintendo or the mayflash version) works for connecting your gc controller (old or the new smash branded ones) and playing gamecube games with it. Its the only option to play on a wired connection on wii u too.

Though everything is not perfect, there exists some small scaling issues and there is a blur filter applied to gamecube games. Its not something too noticable unless you do a side by side comparison or play GC alot, but its there.

>> No.4328089

>>4328003
You don't know what you're talking about, VWii mode is just the Wii U upscaling 480p so you're still stuck to 480p rendering resolution

>> No.4328137 [DELETED] 

>>4327895
>i smell someone with high standards an a job that pays more than minimum wage
FTFY

>>4327967
>le i beat punch out maymay
>le ifs and buts
le lel for (You)

>> No.4328356
File: 2.45 MB, 458x334, 1479561922906.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4328356

>>4328137

>Le

Fuck off.

>> No.4328531

>>4327474
>composite video

s.m.h

>> No.4328558
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4328558

Emulation is the purest form of gaming.

When you emulate you have access to most the library, you choose to play a game based on the game itself. Price, availability and hype don't affect your decision.

People who buy physical carts, CRTs, do so for their nostalgia and they collect to feed their OCD. The gaming is secondary to them.

If you're on a PC you can play 90% of games right now! So why are you browsing ebay listings?

>> No.4328562

>>4328558
I collect old consoles and regularly play games on them but also have pi with a bunch of roms on it. If a game is hard to get I just emulate it. I have about 20 consoles right now and I still care about gaming. What does it make me?

>> No.4328598

>>4328558
I have a hacked Wii with emulators, hooked up to a small CRT via S-Video and Raphnet adapters for both NES and SNES controllers (wired to the GC ports, not that WiiMote shit).

It's not entirely what you propagate, but it's a nice sweetspot between it feeling authentic and getting to reap the benefits of emulation. Also cheap and easy to set up.

>> No.4330202

>>4326547
>>4326653
>>4326656
>>4327424
>>4327815
>>4327878
>>4327892
>>4327895
>>4328598
OK guys, im this anon >>4327474
After doing extensive research i can honestly tell you that the emulators on Wii arent as good as you think
Even NES is pretty fucky
But having the fullset right there is cool
But if you play both a real nes and this u can tell the damn difference
Gamecube runs 100% perfect tho

>> No.4330325

>>4330202

There's like six different NES emulators available, if you can't get decent results out of a single one you've got to be doing it wrong.

>> No.4330395
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4330395

>>4326547
I love my wii, nothing can beat it for sd emulating, and flawless gcn emulation. Picked up one of these too, feels good

>> No.4330451

>>4330395
>gcn emulation
It's not emulation. The Wii is essentially an overclocked GameCube, so the games run natively.

>> No.4330463

>>4326547
Short answer is because they don't care about cycle accuracy. The VC emulators are tweaked and optimized to run "good enough" for the specific games they're used for. It's like ZSNES, but not as shit. The homebrew emulators, likewise, are not going for Higan levels of accuracy, so they run just fine on the Wii's hardware, with maybe some occasional compatibility errors in less popular games.

>> No.4330495

>>4330463
Genesis Plus GX is probably the best Genesis and Mega CD emulator around and before RetroArch took off it was exclusively available for Wii. mGBA is on the Wii as well and it definitely has got Higan levels of autism in regards to cycle accuracy.

Those two are more like exceptions than the general rule though. People who want to play games don't tend to give a shit about cycles.

>> No.4330575

>>4330495
>mGBA is on the Wii as well and it definitely has got Higan levels of autism in regards to cycle accuracy.
Not even close. It's gotten to where it works pretty well for most games, but it's not cycle-accurate (nor does it claim to be) and still has plenty of known bugs. It's just much better than the steaming pile of shit that was VBA.

Genesis Plus GX is great and plays all commercial games just fine as far as I'm aware, but again, it's nothing like Higan in terms of emulating every hardware quirk and corner case.

>> No.4330635

>>4330575
Higan isn't perfect either. There are a bunch of PPU behaviors it gets wrong, mainly effects caused by writing certain PPU registers during rendering. No attempt has been made to emulate SA-1 memory conflicts either for "performance reasons" of all things. I don't think those were the only things either. Then there are all the other Higan cores that are cycle based but bug ridden.

Are you sure about mGBA? I haven't checked out the source but I'm honestly surprised if it's not cycle accurate considering how much the author has whined on about it in the past. If it's not then it feels like complete hypocrisy on his part.

If Genesis Plus GX proves anything it's that it's possible to have a solid emulator without the raging autism.

>> No.4330653

>>4330635
>There are a bunch of PPU behaviors it gets wrong, mainly effects caused by writing certain PPU registers during rendering.
If you're referring to this, it was fixed once it was discovered and documented:
https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16200
Higan isn't perfect, sure, but it goes WAY further than any other game console emulator attempts to (or arguably needs to).

>No attempt has been made to emulate SA-1 memory conflicts either for "performance reasons" of all things.
Of course not, because a PC capable of emulating that perfectly at full speed literally doesn't currently exist.

>Are you sure about mGBA? I haven't checked out the source but I'm honestly surprised if it's not cycle accurate considering how much the author has whined on about it in the past.
It's not, for performance reasons.
https://mgba.io/2017/04/30/emulation-accuracy/
I like mGBA, it's been coming along nicely, but perfect accuracy is still a ways off.

>If Genesis Plus GX proves anything it's that it's possible to have a solid emulator without the raging autism.
Absolutely. It's a great emulator, and is as accurate as most people will ever care about.

>> No.4330663

>>4330202
NES emulation is probably the worst in terms of official VC on Wii. Its dark and blurry. Though SNES in my experience is pretty good. I have a real snes and wii vc snes and honestly alot of the game i played are pretty much the same apart from some games where they toned down the flashing effects for seizures and shit.

>Gamecube runs 100% perfect tho
thats because there is a gamecube inside the wii

>> No.4330665

>>4330395
I was looking into getting one of these controllers, but i just got the SNES Classic considering it comes with 2 of them for the same price/slightly cheaper.

>> No.4330752

>>4330653
That latching behavior isn't what I was talking about. There would have been literally no reason not to include that fix since it's right there in the thread. What I mean is not all the PPU registers are locked during rendering so writes can have subtle effects that can often go unnoticed. A better known one is that you can abuse forced blanking to do all manner of crazy things in a single scanline, but the results don't end up being what you'd expect.

>SA-1
Running things at full speed was never a consideration for bsnes before so it feels like a cop-out. For over a year there was no PC that could run the Yoshi's Island title screen at full speed in the accuracy core and when there was it was a 2600k overclocked past 5GHz. My point is 2010 byuu would have emulated it in some form even if it took more computational power than the universe is capable of.

One of his old articles went into detail about writing a cool concept emulator that was pure accuracy with absolutely no expense spared in regards to performance or usability. That idea seems to have been abandoned and now he's wasting his time prattling and leeching Mednafen cores, what a waste.

>> No.4330802

>>4330663
>Its dark and blurry.
That's the Wii U VC, classic Wii was fine.

>> No.4331236

>>4328558
>So why are you browsing ebay listings?
Original Xbox games

>> No.4331272

>>4330802
The original Wii has dark NES VC too. I don't think it's as bad as the WiiU. No blur afaik.