Thoughts about RetroAchievements?

File: 8 KB, 640x448, XI5zPv7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:12:23 2017 No.4319716 [Reply] [Original]

Thoughts about RetroAchievements?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:13:45 2017 No.4319717 >>4319716 A nice option for people who cares about stuff like this

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:23:41 2017 No.4319731 >>4319716 I have no idea what they are, but they sound like an okay enough checklist of shit you can try to do in the game on paper.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:31:08 2017 No.4319738 >>4319716 Modern gamer cancer for kids like >>4319717 >>4319731

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:31:46 2017 No.4319742

>>4319716
Achievements in general are fucking stupid. There was a time when an achievement was something you felt, not a little picture displayed on a screen that you had to meet some arbitrary goal to "unlock". I never got an achievement for getting to level 99 in Diablo 2, I never got an achievement for beating my high score in Star Fox 64, I never got an achievement for beating Quake on nightmare... but I didn't need to "get" an achievement, because it was an achievement. It was something that I told myself I wanted to do, I did it, and it felt rewarding. I don't understand the concept of putting these little things in the game. Is beating a super hard game you've been struggling with for weeks somehow less rewarding if you don't have a little picture to remind you that you did it? It's just fucking retarded and I want no further part of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:32:11 2017 No.4319743 its mad fucking gay

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:33:22 2017 No.4319746
File: 33 KB, 301x302, 1506452662308.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4319738
I don't like when they show on screen or anything, but there's no harm in it whatsoever. Plenty of older games had special achievements in them internally anyway, and not to mention that the oldest games were about *achieving* high scores. Don't be such a sourpuss.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:35:00 2017 No.4319750 >>4319717 This, it's a good way to give additional challenges to old games which freshens them up after all these years. Also makes some people >>431973. get all butthurt which is always fun.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:40:51 2017 No.4319758
File: 254 KB, 1440x1080, 1475409502612.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4319746
>but there's no harm in it whatsoever.
No, you're dead fucking wrong. This is the kind of think that got the game industry in the shit pit it's in now. Achievement shit is used as actually content because it was allowed to be and because modern gamers want it.
>and not to mention that the oldest games were about *achieving* high scores.
Getting a high score on an arcade game is an achievement based on skill and has no added content to the game. A scoreboard is a feature.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:46:44 2017 No.4319772

>>4319758
>Getting a high score on an arcade game is an achievement based on skill and has no added content to the game.
This x10000. The little faggots growing up today obsess over getting every "You beat chapter 1 on easy" bullshit achievement, but they'll know the absolute raw joy of breaking the highscore you've been chasing for months. That's a real achievement.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:47:40 2017 No.4319774 Neat as a suggestion for doing unusual shit in a game, though I would hate to see the same culture extend to it.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:48:52 2017 No.4319776

>>4319758
The game devs determine what is an achievement. Some relegate the achievements to the exact things you listed. Others use it as a source of humor. Others eschew it altogether and omit achievements. They can do that. But since they're there, some games have them. It doesn't hurt anyone that they're there except for you and your autism.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:49:29 2017 No.4319779

Score systems in most arcade games are fucking gay and require you to milk those infinite respawing enemies until you run out of time. Cave, as much as try hards hate them, was the only company that implemented interesting fun Score systems in their games and I don't even enjoy chaining all that much.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:50:20 2017 No.4319781 >>4319758 The game industry is doing fantastically no matter how much you cry about it. Please write us another essay about how dlc raped your mom and achievements made you feel like a loser. It's always fun.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:50:50 2017 No.4319782 I wonder what all those gamerscore kids from the ps3 generation are doing now that all their effort has been rendered in vain.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:52:48 2017 No.4319784

>>4319776
>The game devs determine what is an achievement.
Not true at all. I got achievements just for buying the fucking game. BUYING IT. Hell they throw fucking achievements out for beta testing too. Posting on the forums. All forms of cancer.

It is absolutely a replacement for content. They have 1000s of sub $5 games on steam that are just spam achievement games. You're just proving your age or lack of actually playing old games.
>>4319781
Lol this kid. Hey man if you got stock in it that have fun.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:53:14 2017 No.4319785

>>4319772
That's why getting a handful of achievements on a game is easy, but getting 100% usually takes a lot of skill at the game. They go way beyond just beating it. You can ignore them and that's fine too, but I like extra challenges to tackle when I really like a game.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:54:32 2017 No.4319787 >>4319784 The classic "kid" comment. What a shock to see that. My stake is I like fun video games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:55:17 2017 No.4319789 >>4319785 This is the exact problem. Kids like this that treat achievements as content. >>4319787 Come up with a decent point then.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:56:17 2017 No.4319790 Broken shit. All achievements pop when I start a game, so what the fuck is the point?

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 22:59:58 2017 No.4319794

>>4319784
The devs literally choose what achievements are in or out. They get to pick when and what gives you an achievement. Cinematic games have very few achievements and they generally hide the notifs. Hack and slash games or party games might include them on screen and make them humorous. Some games, like those made by crappy cash grab companies, might give you an achievement for pressing start on the start screen.

The devs determine what are achievements. Who do you think does it if not them?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:02:09 2017 No.4319797 >>4319794 Try rereading my post because I just gave 3 examples of them.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:03:35 2017 No.4319798
File: 18 KB, 259x207, 1505588259803.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4319789
It literally is content even if it's cheap content. What is the difference between getting the high score at an arcade after trying for 3 days and getting an achievement for finding a bunch of secrets or doing enough of one thing?

Oh yeah, the latter is more complex and customizable. It's the evolution of arcade-style competition and leaderboarding. It is literally only a better form of it that the game makers can customize.

It's content whether you like it or not, and you don't even have to like it. Just like you don't have to like certain genres of games. But to say something that is obviously content isn't content just because you don't like it? That's just retarded.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:09:09 2017 No.4319809

>>4319798
>What is the difference between getting the high score at an arcade after trying for 3 days and getting an achievement for finding a bunch of secrets or doing enough of one thing?
A scoreboard is a feature that requires skill.

Modern day achievements are nothing. You can get them and never start the game up or install it. Simply buying the game as I said will get you an achievement. See my other examples. That isn't content. That's just bullshit that modern games treat as "content". The worse of these systems are the games that have "Achievement Points" or something along those lines that are just a number or rank that does fucking nothing. Can't use it as currency. Nothing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:13:45 2017 No.4319815 >>4319798 >more complex, customizable, better, evolution of blah blah blah Calm down there, bruh. It's just new padding and an online bragging method, since kids don't actually have IRL video-game playing sessions with friends anymore.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:14:41 2017 No.4319817 >>4319809 >skill that's rich. ever played Metal Slug X? because getting the highest score also means finding all the fucking secrets and some can only happen in less than half the time and purely by chance

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:16:45 2017 No.4319820 >>4319817 You got me. You used an exception as an absolute to refute my point.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:20:54 2017 No.4319827 >>4319789 >but it's just a chore for me to relive the same stories. I'm 43. You can hate them all you want, I like that they're standard in a lot of games now. Calling 'kid' over and over isn't an argument either

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:22:10 2017 No.4319828 >>4319820 so much as you used certain easily attainable achievements to make a point and write them all off as a downgrade to a scoreboard. plenty of old games have easily missed secrets that you can find by chance you know

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:23:40 2017 No.4319830 >>4319817 I saw a metal slug x speedrun on youtube that called itself all secrets run instead of highscore.run. Makes a lot more sense.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:25:08 2017 No.4319834

>>4319827
It's like there was no point before the kid comment or something. Hmm...
>>4319828
Is there a reason you keep bringing up secrets? You've said it 4 times now. You understand achievements and secrets are two different things right?
>a downgrade to a scoreboard
They aren't. They're just cancer.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:29:30 2017 No.4319845

>>4319834
I described the reasons I liked them and your only response was ro imply I must be young. I'm just saying that in addition to it being a meaningless point to make it was also wrong.

They add another incentive to master a fane you like and take on additional challenges. I've always liked them for that reason.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:32:05 2017 No.4319856

>>4319830
yeah except the fact that said secrets, like the golden bat in stage 2 nets you like 50k points and you can only get them by chance since it'll be either a golden chest or a bunch of normal bats popping out for you to kill otherwise. so much for skill

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:32:08 2017 No.4319857 >>4319845 With how much you praise modern games it's a fair assessment that you're young.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:36:09 2017 No.4319865

>>4319857
Your method for assessing the ages if people is awful then. Everyone else I know around my age thinks video games now are awesome. It's only in /vr/ that I come across folks like you. It's literally like you're visiting from another dimension.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:41:16 2017 No.4319876

>>4319865
Every time my group of friends get a new game it's always a fucking hassle. I'm talking about a newly released game. The last time we got a game and it actually fucking worked was probably BF2. And I remember that because RB6Vegas came out later and it was a fucking nightmare at release.

So yes if you have nothing but praise for modern games you're most likely young. It's a very safe bet.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:47:04 2017 No.4319894 >>4319876 So literally any sort if discussion with you is impossible, because anything you disagre with you automatically dismiss by deciding the person saying it must be young, and therefore wrong. That's really pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:49:22 2017 No.4319897 >>4319894 >So literally Ya you must be real old.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:52:22 2017 No.4319903 >>4319897 That's really your whole deal isn't it? Calling people kid over and over and over.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:54:58 2017 No.4319906 >>4319903 You're the one that's so upset that you ignore any point I make because you got called a kid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:56:14 2017 No.4319912 >>4319876 Yah I was really hyped for Sonic Mania but then that piece of shit shipped with always online Denuvo bullshit and I don't have a stable internet connection.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:03:58 2017 No.4319927

>>4319906
You never made anything even close to a point directed at me. All you ever did was discount my liking if achievements under the assumption I must be young.

The closest you came was saying you found it a hassle to set up games, but as someone who's been dealing with PCs for 30+ years I don't think you really kniw what hassle is.

The point is more that you keep repeating this kid line even after I explained you were wrong. That's why I said conversing with you was meaningless. You're not here to exchange ideas, you're here to yell that you are right and everyone else is wrong no matter what. It's a worthless process.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:04:09 2017 No.4319928 >>4319716 >thoughts about shilling The wife and I can't get enough of it

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:05:58 2017 No.4319935 >>4319927 >You never made anything even close to a point directed at me Mental gymnastics the post. >but as someone who's been dealing with PCs for 30+ years I don't think you really kniw what hassle is. K

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:22:09 2017 No.4319965

>>4319716
Never really cared for achievements but I can kinda see the appeal to some that make you play the game in a radically different way you'd never attempt before but even then it's just the concept of playing the game that way I like not getting the achievement itself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:22:18 2017 No.4319967 File: 167 KB, 400x150, sherm521.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4319935 Thanks for wasting my time with your opinions and inability to hold a human conversation again, I guess. Sorry you're so upset about everything...

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:23:35 2017 No.4319969 >>4319785 >but getting 100% usually takes a lot of skill at the game Most games I see the stuff you have to do to get 100% just comes off more as a tedious grind doing arbitrary bullshit rather than skill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:24:06 2017 No.4319970 >>4319967 Feel free to counter a point. Or just continue shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:24:36 2017 No.4319972 >>4319965 I like when they give me an idea to challenge myself I hadn't come up with yet.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:27:15 2017 No.4319975

>>4319970
I already did. All you said was that you didn't believe I'd been dealing with PCs this long. I'm just saying, if you're this unable to have a conversation there's obviously no point. Deal with me like a normal person and make an argument that's more than "I don't believe you" and maybe we'd get somewhere.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:28:17 2017 No.4319976 >>4319969 What do you consider arbitrary bullshit?

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:29:54 2017 No.4319978

>>4319969
This, most games really aren't that challenging any more. I don't really like many achievements but I like ones that stress exploration, getting a pop up for accidentally jumping off the highest point or reaching some out of the way place are really the only ones I like. I don't like the ones that broadcast my obsession with looking up skirts.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:30:28 2017 No.4319980 >>4319976 Replaying on every difficulty rather than just some of the harder ones. Having to get every single weapon/item in an RPG. Having to earn ______ amount of money Having to eat every single piece of food in every single restaurant

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:31:18 2017 No.4319982 File: 1.31 MB, 320x180, rajang-from-monster-hunter-o.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4319978 >This, most games really aren't that challenging any more. There are lots of really challenging games though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:31:32 2017 No.4319984 >>4319980 You must hate the old tony hawk games

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:32:46 2017 No.4319989 >>4319975 >believe I'd been dealing with PCs this long. Saying shit that is just blatantly wrong isn't helping you. I can't take you serious when you have nothing but praise and excuses for modern games.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:33:37 2017 No.4319992

>>4319984
Not really because most of the stuff you had to do to earn that actually required you to play the game well. If you wanna see what I'm talking about go look up all the crap you gotta do to 100% some of the later Yakuza games. Running around to every bar to drink every kind of alcohol but also having to stop every two or three drinks because you're too drunk to keep buying more and now must buy a drinking remedy to get rid of that status effect isn't skill it's just a tedious slog.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:35:22 2017 No.4319994

>>4319982
Not really, most are hit the glowing bits or wait for that obvious opening then attack a bunch then back off, rinse repeat. Harder difficulties just add hp or times you need to jump on something head. Sometimes they make them more aggressive which is nice at least.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:36:02 2017 No.4319995

>>4319980
Every difficulty I am totally with you on. When done well it unlocks them for easier difficulties when you beat on a harder one.

The others are lame but don't bother me. Those are just the ones I don't spend time on, they're really for completists, which kind of works out. The people like me who don't care about completionism just ignore those superfluous ones and focus on the interesting ones. But for the super completionist players out there who really want to collect every weapon, mix every recipe etc, it's nice to give them a little reward for it. And they're the ones who want that 100% achievement score anyways.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:37:28 2017 No.4319997 File: 53 KB, 300x268, etrian_odyssey_iii_3_the_drowned_city_box.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4319994 My experience has been different.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:40:14 2017 No.4320002

>>4319989
>Saying shit that is just blatantly wrong isn't helping you.

This is the point. I'm in my 40's. I have in fact been dealing with and building PCs for decades. But because that doesn't fit with the prejudice you came to the conversation with, you just ignore everything I say and repeat the same things.

Then you have the gall to try and insist it's me who's not said anything. If this isn't trolling, you are almost literally at a sub human level of conversation ability.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:40:39 2017 No.4320004 >>4319997 This looks like another easily cheesed turn based jrpg

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:41:44 2017 No.4320005 >>4320002 I can't think of a single big name PC game in the 90s that gave me anywhere near the issues that every modern game does now. Can you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:43:31 2017 No.4320010 File: 28 KB, 322x290, gfs_50761_2_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4320004 Thank you for at least confirming that you have no idea what you're talking about. Enjoy your thread.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:44:50 2017 No.4320012

>>4319992
I definitely agree with you about stupid things like that but things like earn x amount of money or points is a staple in retro racing games.getting every item in an rpg definitely takes skill when some items only show up once, it's the equivalent to finding every gap in tony hawk 2 and so on. Remember when games would lock you out of content for playing on easy? Do you like that model more or less?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:46:16 2017 No.4320014 >>4320010 What I'm getting from your shitpost is that I was right about your not retro lolifest

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:46:57 2017 No.4320016

>>4320005
Most of them, honestly. Almost everything was harder then. Descent Freespace crashed for ages, Tribes 2 was a nightmare, Black and White. It's what we dealt with.

Congrats on making it though a post without saying kid for once. That shit makes you look like a grade A idiot. I'm sure we'll run into this bullshit again. Later

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:47:59 2017 No.4320018 >>4320014 lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:49:16 2017 No.4320020 >>4319995 It's not that these things bother me it's just in response to the argument that getting every achievement requires skill which isn't really the case for most of the games I've seen it just comes off more as padding than anything.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:53:12 2017 No.4320024 >>4320016 >Almost everything was harder then. Descent Freespace crashed for ages, Tribes 2 was a nightmare, Black and White. It's what we dealt with. No, kid

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 01:12:05 2017 No.4320048 All those story achievements you get after completing chapters are so the devs can assess how far people actually got in the game and when most started to lose interest this is the achievement redpill

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 01:33:56 2017 No.4320096 Why are people whining about shitty devs and modern achievements when this thread is about user-created achievements for retro games?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 01:37:32 2017 No.4320107 >>4320096 Depression, IBS or both making OP cray cray triggered about modern games instead of just enjoying retro games. AKA welcome to /vr/

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 02:02:06 2017 No.4320146

I love it. I've been using it for a while now. It's a good way to track your progress in games and some sets have fun challenges that I wouldn't have tried otherwise. Many games have bad or boring achievement sets so it can be hit and miss.

Honestly though the main reason I use it is because it forces me to play without save states, since I have a problem with abusing them when they're available.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 02:26:30 2017 No.4320180 >>4319716 Most of them are utterly dull but I'm addicted anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 02:28:08 2017 No.4320184 >>4319742 I can relate but the achievements make things seem more validated and concrete for some reason.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 02:29:38 2017 No.4320186 >>4319758 Retroachievements have zero influence on the modern industry.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 02:42:07 2017 No.4320196 >>4320180 I guess it's easy to forget that an achievement for killing every boss is kind of dull when you spent hours digging for their memory addresses.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 02:43:09 2017 No.4320201 >>4320196 It's also easier to find a pattern that is easy to predict than to detect sequences of actions or unique events for the same reason.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 03:21:03 2017 No.4320227

there's no reason not to let people enjoy games however they want
self-imposed challenges (only use x-buster in MMX, all items found in JRPGs etc) have existed forever and now there's a site where you basically just go to get suggestions for those that might or might not make the game more fun for certain audiences
let people have fun it's 2017

>>4320048
this applies only really to modern games but yeah people should notice this please

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 03:27:17 2017 No.4320231

>>4319758
>This is the kind of think that got the game industry in the shit pit it's in now
I don't see how e-penis measurements amount to anything relative to quality or the lack of it.

I have a retroachievements account yet I don't fish for them, but when I feel the itch of playing a game again and it gives me a pat in the back for doing so it feels nice.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 03:32:03 2017 No.4320240 >>4319758 >Achievement shit is used as actually content I have literally /never/ seen a game advertised specifically for it's achievements. Stop being a stupid fuck, it's the same stupid shit as high score n an arcade game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 03:33:24 2017 No.4320241 >>4320240 well there's this thing http://store.steampowered.com/app/663340/agecheck

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 03:55:48 2017 No.4320271

>>4319716
Achievements are cancer. Play for score if you want a goal to work towards after clearing a game.

>>4319997
Etrian 3 is a quality game, but it's not difficult. The one hard enemy is the Abyssal God, and there are about a dozen cheese builds out there that can trivialize him too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 03:58:46 2017 No.4320274 >>4319716 In a word. Retarded.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 04:02:24 2017 No.4320284

>>4320184
Well that's because they play into a very primitive area of your brain. It's the same reason that people enjoy seeing their World of Warcraft characters level up, even though they're only taking part in an endless loop of 'grind to get stronger to grind against stronger monsters to get stronger to...". The reasons for this are really pretty well documented.

I like achievements to an extent, but jam-packing a game with 200 achievements including "walked right for the first time!" and "beat a boss that's mandatory for finishing the game!" seems pointless to me. Also, if an achievement tells you that you found an easter egg, it doesn't feel like an easter egg anymore because you were supposed to find it as it's in the game's checklist of things to find for 100% completion.

So yeah. I like achievements but only if they're implemented well.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 04:03:38 2017 No.4320285 >>4319742 yeah it's called a Skinner box and you're a retard

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 04:12:50 2017 No.4320293

>>4320284
Yeah you can probably eliminate like 90% of the achievements for any given game. I don't need one for picking up the sword in Zelda.

In a way it feels like giving non-saving games a save state. Nothing feels better than a perfect save file. It speaks directly the completionist in me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 04:15:16 2017 No.4320295 Everyone should know by now that most of these "pressed start at the title screen" and "beat level 1" achievements are used for data mining and market research,

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 04:15:27 2017 No.4320296

>>4320004
Can you at least try to inform yourself before you make retarded comments?

>>4319994
It's not like all games back in the old days were challenging though. Some were, some weren't. Some had multiple difficulty modes that added meaningful things other than extra HP, most didn't.

And I mean, "hit the glowing bit" has been a video game trope for decades. Zelda games are best known for it but they've been around for ages. How many shmups are there where you have to blast off some shield or whatever before you can hit the boss's big glowing eye?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 05:31:31 2017 No.4320358 >>4320284 >but only if they're implemented well. Do any implement them well? Because I can't think of many that aren't DO SHIT YOU WOULD HAVE DONE ANYWAYS

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 06:17:52 2017 No.4320395

>>4320358
In my rather biased opinion, they're well-implemented in games that don't call them 'achievements'. For example, in Super Mario 64 you don't have to collect all the stars, but collecting all of them requires substantial extra skill and exploration.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 06:22:59 2017 No.4320404 >>4319716 I don't care since they've been applied to games that never had achievements in the first place. The problem with achievements is the observable effect they had on game content and design

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 06:28:52 2017 No.4320408 >>4320395 Right but that's just the game being the game. Im talking about the stupid retarded trophy fad that plagues modern gaming.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 07:19:45 2017 No.4320453 >>4320241 >steam shovelware proves anything

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 07:39:13 2017 No.4320470 >>4319743 >I have no argument to counteract your completely legitimate point and I'm upset that you insulted muh achievements, therefore you are retarded n' stuff Lmao whatever you say brainlet.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 07:56:23 2017 No.4320487 >>4319772 Gaming is becoming for adults too and adults don't have time for highscore

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 10:48:44 2017 No.4320703 >>4320296 Just looked up etrian odyssey and it turns out I was right, it's another easily cheesed turn based jrpg. When will you accept the fact that turn based rpgs are always easy?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 10:50:32 2017 No.4320705 >>4320703 EO is a dungeon crawler, not a JRPG, and it's quite challenging by turn-based standards. Like any turn-based game there are some OP combos but if you play normally it's pretty challenging.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 10:54:57 2017 No.4320716 >>4320705 It's a jrpg you dingus, is phantasy star a dungeon crawler? No, it's a jrpg.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 10:55:30 2017 No.4320719 >>4320716 Is Wizardry a JRPG? Because EO is modelled after Wizardry games.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 10:58:44 2017 No.4320732 >>4320184 Because you have a simple mind.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 10:58:47 2017 No.4320734 >>4320719 It looks like it's modeled after phantasy star 1 and it was made in Japan thus it's a jrpg anon

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:00:18 2017 No.4320736 >>4320734 >it was made in Japan No.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:00:55 2017 No.4320737 >>4320734 >all RPGs made in Japan are JRPGs So Dark Souls is a JRPG?

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:00:57 2017 No.4320738

>>4320024
See? This is what I was talking about. You asked me a question and I answered. Instead of a real response ypu just repeat the same thing again.

I would think this was just trolling except that you do it over and over again month after month and it always ends the same with you repeating "kid" and "cancer" at everything. Your ability to engage in conversation is literally sub-hunan. This is like trying to discuss something with a monkey.

What seriously is wrong with you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:02:33 2017 No.4320742 >>4320734 Also Wizardry precedes Phantasy Star by like 7 years.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:03:57 2017 No.4320747 >>4319716 I like RA but i only end up dicking around with it on consoles i don't own.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:05:25 2017 No.4320749 >>4320737 It's more of a "metroidvania" in 3D, an action RPG.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:06:52 2017 No.4320754 >>4320749 But it's an RPG made in Japan, that means it's a JRPG, right? My point is that "JRPG" is a genre. Not all RPGs from Japan are JRPGs.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:10:49 2017 No.4320767

>>4320754
Yeah, I wasn't the guy you're talking to. I actually agree with you. JRPGs are more in the vein of FFIV, where the focus is story and characters over gameplay and choices. I see IV's popularity as one of the things that pushed that style of game into it's own genre.

But at the same time, I think Phantasy Star 1 is one of the earliest (if not the earliest) examples of the JRPG formula beginning. With it's emphasis on set characters and story. The fps dungeons give it a more CRPG feel, but I think if those were changed it would look a lot more like what we now call a JRPG than either DQ1 or FF1 for example.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:11:15 2017 No.4320769

>>4319809
>a scoreboard is a feature that requires skill
No, it requires attrition.

Achievements can be based on skill. What about having to pull off very difficult maneuvers or completing missions or areas under certain amounts of time? I'm pretty sure that would be more skillful than beating the same level in Pacman for the hundredth time.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:28:54 2017 No.4320802

>>4320742
No shit.
>>4320754
Typically yes they are, they have the same core mechanics with one exception being the "dungeon crawling". It doesn't change genres because of one mechanic. There are hundreds of jrpgs that use the dungeon crawler model but they're jrpgs first and dungeon crawlers second. I have remind you my original comment was "looks like another easily cheeses turn based jrpg" and that is exactly what it is. What's your preferred pronoun anon?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:39:19 2017 No.4320820 >>4319716 >being so autistic as to actually care about 'achievements' go back to your xbox games

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:50:16 2017 No.4320848

>>4320802
Not him but EO really is more of what you would call a dungeon crawler. Much more than Phantasy Star and even more than SMT. PS1 follows a a pretty standard rpg (particularly jrpg) set up with an overworld of monsters, towns and dungeons. It's different because the dungeons are first person, but other than that it's very much like most games that get called jrpgs.

Etrian Odyssey has little to nothing in the way of a traditional overworld and is all about the dungeon crawl. It's light on plot and characters (none of your party members have any for example) and usually just one town which is collection of menus.

People liken in more to a CRPG than a JRPG because it's far more like Wizardry than it is Final Fantasy, where as virtually every other Japanese made RPG out there is much closer to Final Fantasy.

The reason people tend to separate JRPGs from CRPGs (and even then separate open world Ultima style from dungeon crawlers) is that they tend to have very different audiences. Not a lot of people really into Wizardry like Final Fantasy and the other way around. It happens, but it's not a given. So the separate genre names emerged to keep them distinguished.

As for difficulty, the EO games are ultimately easy in that all RPGs are set puzzles, and once you figure out the solutions going through them is trivial. But it's also far more challenging requires more strategy from beginning to end than most other Japanese RPGs. They're more forgiving than Wizardry, but I find them more fun as well.

Sucks about the character designs though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 11:52:19 2017 No.4320852 >>4320820 Same could be said about beating a game or getting a high score. They're just arbitrary goals that are fun to try and challenge yourself with. It's a game after all, fun is the real point of it in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 12:01:00 2017 No.4320861 >looking at Sonic 2 trophies/achievs and this retroachievs >nothing for getting stuck in THAT PIT as Super Sonic Why

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 12:10:03 2017 No.4320870

>>4320186
See PlayStation store.
>>4320240
You haven't seen much then.
>>4320738
What is wrong with you? I bought Quake and it just fucking worked. I bought Unreal and it just fucking worked. At most I needed a driver.
>>4320769
>>4320852
>They're just arbitrary goals that are fun to try and challenge yourself with.
>What about having to pull off very difficult maneuvers or completing missions or areas under certain amounts of time?
A scoreboard is the opposite of arbitrary. You may want to read a book.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 12:37:55 2017 No.4320916
File: 1.82 MB, 320x240, eccoH.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4320870
>A scoreboard is the opposite of arbitrary
>>4320852 (You) here

Why are you saying that to me? I said nothing about scoreboards. I would agree they're not arbitrary. I don't think they have much to do with achievements. Didn't read the comments about them, don't want to bother.

Just saying why I like them.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 12:40:02 2017 No.4320925

>>4320916
>Why are you saying that to me?
That's what the first part of you post is.
>Same could be said about beating a game or getting a high score.
And a lot of anon ITT are saying a scoreboard is just an achievement. The same as the cancer in their modern games.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 12:40:02 2017 No.4320926 >>4320870 Imagine being so stupid you don't understand the topic of a thread and so angry that you whine about unrelated trends that are not even on topic for this board.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 12:41:57 2017 No.4320929 >>4320926 You think that achievement bullshit is old? It's not. And no this isn't some list on paper of shit to do in a game. These "retro achievements" in emulators are the same as modern ones. Imagine being so ignorant.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 12:53:29 2017 No.4320949

>>4320925
I was responding to someone replying to the OP, I assumed it was a new poster not someone already active in the thread.

I see now what you're doing. That you actually just pepper the thread with comments like this. Using words like cancer and autistic just to stir up shit.

I even agreed with you and you still came back swearing and name calling. What are you even trying to achieve?

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 12:57:00 2017 No.4320953
File: 13 KB, 320x224, granada-1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4320929
I would agree with you on this point as well. Achievements as we know them are a new development. That's what makes adding them to older games interesting to me. It puts the old game in a fresh context and maybe gives me something tough to try I hadn't thought of before.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:01:46 2017 No.4320967 >>4319716 Achievements are autism and I've been recommending spastic-spinners to anyone who thinks otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:05:22 2017 No.4320974 >>4320967 So do you make these threads as well? Is this an OCD thing? The board is flooded with them almost all the time. Honestly curious, I mean now that I realize this is all you as well I'm almost worried.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:05:32 2017 No.4320975 >>4320703 If you seriously think that Etrian Odyssey can be "easily cheesed" I welcome you to give at least one example. Bug exploits don't count.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:12:47 2017 No.4320987

>>4320975
You can beat the true final boss with a solo shogun who maxed out several moves including the most powerful attack in the game while being on the verge of being killed every single turn and relying on very slim RNG and hope to god the killing blow actually brings it down, meaning you spend an entire playthrough's worth of experience to set up something that MIGHT win (it wont)

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:25:38 2017 No.4321013

>>4320848
You're letting features change your idea of what a game is at it's core. I agree with most of what your pushing, but the points you mentioned are exactly the same as bulleted back of the box features. It is a jrpg, it features dungeon crawling. It is a jrpg, although it features the core mechanics set forth by Dq AND wizardry, the gameplay may mirror wizardry more but taken at its base level it's still a jrpg. The level design and overworld are different approaches but it still remains a jrpg. I get why people want to split genres but again, it's lowest common denominator would better fit a definition of jrpg rather than dungeon crawler. Hair metal and death metal both fit under the over arching label of metal, similarly EO will fit under both dungeon crawler and simultaneously jrpg. What is the most broad statement you can characterize the game as? If you were talking to someone that doesn't know the ins and outs of obfuscated game genres you would try to appeal to the most broad definition to help get their expectations on track, in that example you would find that jrpg is fitting and will successfully illustrate what the player is getting into. I'm not saying that it has to be one or the other, what I'm saying is despite defining this further the game will remain a jrpg. I do appreciate the thought out post though and you and the other anons arguing with me have convinced me to pick the game up because it sounds like it's something I would enjoy but I stand by my original statement.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:25:42 2017 No.4321014

I love the idea of retro achievements. Not because I use them, but because it gets certain autists in this community so worked up. It literally adds nothing and takes away nothing yet they hate it so much because it represents modern gaming seeping into their old boys club and it makes them feel powerless.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:35:42 2017 No.4321029 >>4320949 I made my point. Nice attempt at still trying to change the argument though.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:44:18 2017 No.4321040

>>4321013
I do basically agree with you, I personally wouldn't be against someone calling it a jrpg, but if I were categorizing a bunch I would put it in with the dungeon crawlers. And though it's a series that I've recommended a lot, I find most people who play more traditional "jrpgs" even SMT and Persona often don't like it.

To me that's why we have genres. They're always loose, but it's a general idea of the style of game something is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:46:22 2017 No.4321047 >>4319716 I suppose it's good, but not necessary.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:48:18 2017 No.4321048 >>4321029 Change what argument? You made a reply to the OP post and then expected everyone else to know it was part of some other conversation. This makes no sense. Are you insane? A bot?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 13:53:00 2017 No.4321054 >>4321048 You're obviously just attempting to back peddle. Since you didn't specifically say "scoreboard" but instead mentioned it in description. But hey you got me to reply. And the thread is shit anyway.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 15:51:36 2017 No.4321259

Garbage. One of the reasons I play retro games is to get away from newfangled shit like achievements and social media integration. Gaming for me has always been a personal experience. I don't understand anyone's need to broadcast to a bunch of strangers over the Internet that they just discovered the 1UP trick in Super Mario Bros. Seriously, who gives a shit.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:05:02 2017 No.4321289

>>4320975
Immunize.
Revenge.
Axcela/Force skill abuse.
Warrior Might.

You can also just overlevel to trivialize the game like in every rpg. You don't even need to do that, the only enemies that should give even mediocre teams serious trouble are postgame bosses, which are challenging, but only by RPG standards. And of course you can look up builds online to trivialize absolutely everything. EO is a good series but it's not difficult.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:25:09 2017 No.4321323 >>4321054 I specified I wasn't the person you were talking with about scoreboards and then actually agreed with you about them. Holy shit, what is your problem?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:26:50 2017 No.4321326 >>4320732 Says the shitposter.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:29:14 2017 No.4321330 >>4321014 somehow I think this makes you definitively worse than any of them

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:37:24 2017 No.4321343 >>4321323 Got some conflicting statements then.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:44:56 2017 No.4321363 >>4321343 Well you're completely insane then.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:50:20 2017 No.4321382
File: 57 KB, 460x534, 1469753482994.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4321289
>look up the best way to trivialize a game's difficulty
>"HAHA WOOOOOW GAME SO EASY"
do you think anybody's going to respond to you with any degree of seriousness dude? nobody's going to know about that shit without looking it up or getting lucky, these games have so many goddamn skills that accidentally stumbling on the broken ones is unlikely as hell in normal play. any average player will tell you EO is on the higher end of difficulty for a JRPG.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:51:22 2017 No.4321384 >>4320737 Yes, it is. I'm glad you understand that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:52:41 2017 No.4321386 >>4321363 The post chain is right there.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 16:56:17 2017 No.4321394

>>4321382
>nobody's going to know about that shit without looking it up

Over-leveling is common knowledge with most any RPG that doesn't have anti-grinding measures. Other stuff like skill abuse is easily discovered if it's simply a matter of observing a skill's effects and going, "Wow, that's pretty broken!"

I don't know who ever thought Etrian Odyssey manages to capture some sort of idyllic balance, but it doesn't. I don't think a single Atlus RPG that doesn't fall into typical turn-based tropes.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 17:07:22 2017 No.4321419

>>4321386
Yeah and it shines light on the fact that you frequently reply to this and very likely many other threads as if you were different individuals. Replying to the OP over and over with slight variations on the same thing.

And at the same time you assume everyone who disagrees with you is all one person doing exactly what you're doing.

Like I said, you're straight up crazy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 17:26:05 2017 No.4321451 >>4321419 You can't read? Again. The post chain is there.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 17:33:51 2017 No.4321470

>>4321382
These aren't obscure combinations of skills that combine to become gamebreaking. If your medic learned immunize, you broke the game. If your hexer learned revenge, you broke the game. Do you honestly think it's that unlikely that someone will, without spoilers, use axcelas to build their force meter faster? It says right there in the item description that that's what they do. And guess what? That will completely break the game, up to and including the postgame superboss.

The fact that games like Etrian Odyssey and Dark Souls are considered hardcore now proves that games have become easy. Go watch a superplay of an arcade shmup or read spoilers on a hardcore roguelike and let me know if that lets you trivialize the game. Protip: it won't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 17:37:06 2017 No.4321472 >>4321382 Go ahead, go look up how to trivialize Nethack, then see how long it takes you to beat it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:16:51 2017 No.4321537 I'm still butthurt over people calling Etrian a lolicon rpg while conveniently ignoring the game offers you old men and burly dudes cliparts for your avatars. you don't have to play as lolis if you don't want to btw not retro you fucking retards

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:28:53 2017 No.4321558 >>4321537 Pedo btfo

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:35:01 2017 No.4321568
File: 60 KB, 525x640, Etrian-Odyssey-II-Untold-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4321558
EO is punishing, not difficult. Dying is incredibly easy and you lose all unsaved progress except for your map. You are forced to rollback 10 levels in order to reset your skill points so if you're not following a FAQ and make any mistakes in your build get ready to grind a lot.
Also, I do not think overleveling is a valid strat in EO at all, the exp curve is pretty damn steep. Equipment is probably more important than levels.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:36:08 2017 No.4321570 >>4321472 of course it won't work, the game is randomized. don't you niggers even understand the concept of a roguelike?

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:45:24 2017 No.4321583

>>4321568
I think you replied to the wrong person but the fact that the game allows you to essentially roll back levels makes it easier and more accessible. Other anons have posted multiple ways to cheese the game and you're trying to discredit it not based on fact but feeling.
>I do not think overleveling is a valid strat in EO

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:45:45 2017 No.4321584 Just wondering, does running pre-seeded Nethack games counts as cheesing? Probably not. http://web.archive.org/web/20090306103017/http://taeb-nethack.blogspot.com/2009/03/predicting-and-controlling-nethacks.html

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:47:49 2017 No.4321587 >>4321583 That's why I said it's not hard, just damn punishing. Recovering 10 levels is a hell of a big time sink, even when fighting high leveled monsters. I don't see what people find appealing about these games.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:50:37 2017 No.4321593

>>4321583
>I do not think overleveling is a valid strat in EO
I said this because I think grinding money and spoils for equipment is probably faster and more effective than power leveling. Also there is sort of an anti-grinding mechanic going on in the form that resting at the inn costs raises exponentially depending on your HP, I think. It's inspired from the aging bullshit in Wizardry.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:56:14 2017 No.4321602 >>4321593 >Also there is sort of an anti-grinding mechanic going on in the form that resting at the inn costs raises exponentially depending on your HP Cast healing spells before staying at the inn.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:56:49 2017 No.4321603

>>4321593
>The cost to sleep at the inn will go up the higher the sum of your party's combined level, for every level in your party the price will go up 2 EN, so a full party of level 70's will cost 700EN to sleep.
Yep, there is an anti-grinding thing. This affects your resources more than it initially seems.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 18:59:00 2017 No.4321605

>>4321602
It's been too long since I played these games but I used a different strat, I made two princesses in EO3 with fully upgraded passive healing. Took fucking forever to fully heal and I couldn't recover TP though, you eventually still need to rest for TP.
There's no passive healing in EO1 and 2 though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 19:03:09 2017 No.4321615 File: 511 KB, 1469x503, EO1Protectors.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4321558 Every class has at least one gruff burly old man avatar.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 19:08:40 2017 No.4321624 >>4321615 And I'd bet both my left nuts your party was filled with lolis >see mom it's got burly men in it >she's not 12 she's over 1000 years old Said as you cuddle your daki

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 19:13:48 2017 No.4321628

>>4321587
>That's why I said it's not hard, just damn punishing.

The games are hardly punishing at all. Anyway, you don't need a perfect build or anything close to it to finish the game. Or the postgame for that matter. The 10 level respec penalty was only in the first game. By the fourth it's gone down to 2 levels.

>>4321570
>of course it won't work, the game is randomized. don't you niggers even understand the concept of a roguelike?

It also wouldn't work in, say, DoDonPachi DaiOuJou because real hard games won't be trivialized by reading a guide.

>>4321584
>Just wondering, does running pre-seeded Nethack games counts as cheesing? Probably not.

It's outright cheating. Dealing with the unknown is a huge part of the game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 19:58:43 2017 No.4321710 >>4321584 Big time. Play how you want though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:01:29 2017 No.4321719 >>4321570 The best guy at nethack beat it 30+ times in a row. Most people take at least a hundred tries before their first ascension even with spoilers.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:09:16 2017 No.4321743

Yup, it's right here and it shows you are either a troll who dedicates his time to samefagging and making the same posts over and over, or you're a schizophrenic nutcase who rants and raves at everything.

Or you're a bot, which I am increasingly suspecting.

>>4320820
>>4320870
>>4320916
>>4320925
>>4320949
>>4321029
>>4321048
>>4321054
>>4321323
>>4321343
>>4321363
>>4321386
>>4321419
>>4321451

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:18:58 2017 No.4321765 >>4321743 Some of those aren't mine. But good job at failing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:19:29 2017 No.4321768 >>4319716 LOL there should be an achievement for keeping jogurt on your team for the entire game in shinning force 2

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:28:29 2017 No.4321789

>>4321628
>The games are hardly punishing at all
It's still too punishing for me. You are required to escape from FOE encounters or you're dead. Plenty of deaths to stun locks due to bad RNG. The game loves ambushing you with FOEs in tight corridors or small rooms. There are random map events that steal your Warp Wires, which is the item required to exit the dungeon, if you run out of Warp Wires you might as well reset.
It's frustrating and unfun.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:31:01 2017 No.4321795 >>4321628 >DoDonPachi DaiOuJou Guides won't help you in shmups at all since the bulk of the game is memorization and reaction time. Shmups are the dumbest, lowest iq genre ever conceived, it's a worse grind than the grindiest Korean MMORPG.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:32:34 2017 No.4321803 >>4321628 >DoDonPachi DaiOuJou Stop playing moeshit games you fucking weeabo and go play an actual Toaplan shmup.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:37:54 2017 No.4321814
File: 4 KB, 68x114, Trigourd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Case in point of shit game design: these pumpkin niggers will bind and paralyze your whole party and plummet you to death if you roll a bad RNG. They are only weak to Ice but there is no way of knowing that your first playthrough and it's never stated that learning elemental skills are mandatory, let alone specifically Ice element out of the 3 elements available.
It's not "hard" or "challenging" it's just a fuck you to first-time players.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 20:38:47 2017 No.4321816 >>4321765 Yeah. They're the one I replied and the responses from it, looneyface

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 23:09:30 2017 No.4322102

>>4321789
>There are random map events that steal your Warp Wires, which is the item required to exit the dungeon, if you run out of Warp Wires you might as well reset.

Warp wires aren't required to exit. You can walk back to the beginning of the stratum. If you prepared properly with medicas and nectars you should be able to make it. Learn from your mistakes and buy two warp wires next time. Also those map events only take your warp wire if you make the wrong choice. The first time it's pretty much luck, but after that it's completely your fault.

>>4321814
>these pumpkin niggers

Those guys are annoying for sure, but their movement is also 100% observable, avoidable, and deterministic. If you pay attention and move carefully they will never catch you. It's not luck.

TLDR: Don't blame the game for your mistakes.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 23:40:48 2017 No.4322143

>>4319716
Pointless. An achievement for me is beating a last boss, finding a rare or hard to obtain item, or setting a new personal record or high score.

I don't need an achievement for stupid bullshit like "finished tutorial", "played a multiplayer match", or "collect 5 apples".

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 00:00:46 2017 No.4322171

>>4321795
You're not going to get anywhere in the genre if you can't improvise and read patterns on the fly. Setting aside how absurd it is to equate practicing a skill with grinding in an RPG, the amount of time it takes to clear a shmup is nowhere near the time investment MMOs demand.

Why do people who don't know shit about shmups insist on trying to speak authoritatively about them?

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 00:01:41 2017 No.4322173

>>4321470
>>4321394
>dahurr just read da skill description it tell u that immunize makes u invincible
actually you fucking retards that haven't even played the game, immunize is bugged to fuck and isn't supposed to make you strong against anything but elemental damage. so there's no way of fucking knowing to spam it like crazy and max it the fuck out, because you'd think it's a specialized skill, because that's what the text calls it. it's only after looking up a guide that you find out "oh it's broken" and the game becomes easy. but go ahead and keep parroting whatever dumb shit you want to make up to """prove your point"""

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 00:06:41 2017 No.4322183 >>4322173 Or you use it to while expecting an elemental attack and then get hit by a physical and notice how much less damage it does. I can't speak for that other anon, but you're wrong in assuming I don't play the games.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 00:08:09 2017 No.4322187 >>4322173 Can you try reposting that in English, and this time without posting from your phone?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 00:51:50 2017 No.4322254 >>4322143 Hi again :)

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 01:01:18 2017 No.4322276

>>4322187
That was written on my keyboard, I just couldn't be bothered to write it properly because you dumbshits are all-too-eager to plug your ears and go "N-N-N-NUH UH! B-B-BECAUSE UM ACKSHUALLY," so I didn't feel it'd be worth the effort. Not that proper grammar and capitalization is extra effort, but anything more detailed than sheer greentext is wasted on this board. That having been said, I'd absolutely be happy to call you retarded all day long if that's what you'd like.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 01:01:19 2017 No.4322278 >>4319716 achievements are completely retarded bullshit. Anyone from my generation makes fun of that nonsense. It's so fucking stupid.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 01:16:21 2017 No.4322320 >>4321470 >The fact that games like Etrian Odyssey and Dark Souls are considered hardcore now proves that games have become easy. What are some retro jrpgs you consider harder than those games?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 01:43:42 2017 No.4322352 >>4322278 Lol

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 01:56:19 2017 No.4322382

>>4322320
JRPGs were always easy, but if want a retro dungeon crawler counterpart to Etrian Odyssey, look at how harsh and unfair the first four Wizardry games could be. EO is really very gentle when it comes down to it.

>>4322276
Everything you say has been easily disproved and you type like a retard.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 02:13:47 2017 No.4322428
File: 94 KB, 474x741, 1432577256899.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4322382
>has been
I'm very sure that you """accidentally""" maxed immunize immediately, then """accidentally""" used it against an enemy with powerful physical and magical attacks and """accidentally""" noticed that it's bugged to shit. Forget the fact that it's not even that noticeable until you have several points in it, nope, it's the easiest to notice booboo in the world. Same scenario with Hexer, a class that you have to unlock, and you might not necessarily want to create a whole new character to try, and even if you do create one you're SURELY going to notice, "hm, out of all these skills, I think that Revenge is the one to dump points into," thus completely breaking the game! There's no way that nobody would notice this clear, obvious fact. You goddamned retard. I'm interested in how you'd like to explain that the games were generally considered extremely difficult on release, but now years later they aren't because all of the mechanics have been figured out, guides everywhere, etc. I literally can't wait for your "everyone but me is dumb! it was super easy to break wide open on my own!" response.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 02:24:04 2017 No.4322442

>>4322382
Well obviously, but Wizardry is one of the most notoriously nasty series ever. And roguelikes and arcade shmups ate perhaps the hardest genres. Compared to them most games are easy. That made it sound like DS and EO were below the average difficulty of most retro games.

I never played much of any Souls game, but I'm a long time roguelike fan (rogue was my favorite game for a long time when I was young) and though I wouldn't say it's on par with Nethack or ToME, I think it's a bit disingenuous to call the EO games easy.

Yes they can be broken, but figuring out what to do to break them and the journey along the way is a lot of the challenge and the fun of the series. And that in my experience offers more challenge than a lot of games since the Wizardry days (legend if grimrock was rad though) have had. Certainly more than almost everything labeled a jrpg, in my experience.

By the way, not one of the guys who's been talking about it lately. Though I did talk about it being categorized as a dungeon crawler rather than crpg.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 02:24:43 2017 No.4322443 >>4321719 this Beating Nethack is a genuine skill. You have to have autism-tier knowledge of all the most dangerous monsters in the game to survive the Planes.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 02:29:29 2017 No.4322452

>>4322442
Also meant to say, you can of course play EO with a guide so you know how to break it going in and that does give an easier ride. But that's also sort of like buying a book of crosswords and reading the answers first. What's the point?

So saying it's easy because there a way to break it is also somewhat disingenuous. I don't think anyone who's played through one of them earnestly could really say it's easy. Doable yes, fun yes. But easy? Ehhhhh

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 02:31:32 2017 No.4322457 >>4322443 Also patience. One of his key pieces of advice for winning is knowing when to stop and make a cup of tea.

>>	HormonaLisa !AnVbXjgZco Thu Oct 12 02:32:55 2017 No.4322458 >>4322428 >>4322382 Daaaamn dudes, it's just a video game. Chill.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 02:35:33 2017 No.4322462 >>4322458 >expecting me not to get autistic about video games on a board about getting autistic about video games I'm gonna sperg out in public and you're all gonna watch it happen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 02:38:35 2017 No.4322467 >>4322462 Whoa dude let me at least make some popcorn first

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 03:48:12 2017 No.4322529

>>4322442
EO and DS are harder than, say, Super Mario Bros or Contra, but they're easier than Zelda 2 or Castlevania 3, and they're nothing at all compared to genuinely brutal games like Rogue or Holy Diver. It's not that they're trivial, they just don't live up to their ultra-hardcore reputations. The fact that these moderately difficult games have reputations as the hardest of the hardcore for masochists only proves that mainstream single player games have become very easy over the years.

And don't get me wrong, they're quality games. Etrian 3 and Dark Souls are two of my all-time favorites.

>>4322428
You don't think someone could have trouble with Fenrir's ice attack and decide that Immunize might be a nice investment? You don't think someone might put a Hexer in their EO2 party and decide to invest in their only direct damage skill? Are you really so stupid and lazy that such a tiny amount of curiosity or experimentation is unbelievable?

And even without that stuff the games aren't particularly hard!

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 03:52:45 2017 No.4322532

>>4321013
>You're letting features change your idea of what a game is at it's core.

Anon, categories are useful. The simple fact of the matter is that EO is not categorized as a JRPG. It's modeled after Wizardry, not after DQ. If you describe to someone unfamiliar with the genre that EO is a JRPG, they might expect that it's a game like FFVI and they would be sorely dissappointed. That's why you categorize things. The only similarity EO has with DQ which it doesn't share with Wizardry is that it's Japanese.

EO is a game that's purely about dungeon exploration. You make your own characters, draw your own map, etc. Although there's a general reason you're exploring the labyrinth there's no real plot.

A JRPG, like FFVI or FFIV, is a game with an overarching plot, predefined characters, an overworld with NPCs, etc. It's not so much about the exploration or the dungeon crawling. There are a few games which blur the boundaries (FFI, for example, could be considered a dungeon crawler with an overworld).

What you're suggesting is just as bad as a bookstore with a "Literature" category, which also tells you nothing. Why not categorize games in a meaningful way that allows people to make an expectation of what the game might be like beforehand?

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 03:58:36 2017 No.4322536

>>4321289
FYI these tactics present in all games. Immunize in particular was only present in I (not even in Untold). It was a bug, and it was fixed in the later (much better) games. And they don't qualify as the game being "easily cheesed", especially Warrior's Might requires you to build a party around it. Unless you're using a guide, you'll need to do a -lot- of trial and error before you can make a Warrior's Might party that works because the game doesn't spoonfeed you all the damage multipliers and skill effects.

I mean, sure, if you look up a guide you can cheese any turn-based game. You can beat the superboss of III with only a single Ninja using a very specific strategy. There's definitely no skill involved in that, but you might as well say that a chess game is "easily cheesed" if you look up beforehand which moves the opponent will make. If you're playing the game -as intended-, without a guide, beating a superboss requires a lot of trial and error, party building and optimizing you requipment. And when you finally have the optimal party for a difficult boss, you might be able to beat it easily - but in a turn-based RPG, the battle itself isn't the only part of the challenge, the preparation is important as well.

Action games are just as easily cheesed - all you need to do is memorize a boss' pattern and train your muscle memory to react accordingly. Dark Souls is a game which is considered "hard", but is it really? If you've got good reflexes and you look up boss patterns beforehand you can "cheese" the bosses just as easily. It's all about the fundamental difference between gitting gud at a turn-based game vs gitting gud at an action game: the former requires you to develop an understanding of the game's mechanics, whereas the latter requires you to train your reflexes.

I'm not saying Etrian Odyssey is the hardest game ever or anything. But if you're playing as intended it's challenging.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 04:14:31 2017 No.4322543

>>4322536
>you might as well say that a chess game is "easily cheesed" if you look up beforehand which moves the opponent will make.

You were making a reasonable argument until this point.

Immunize and Revenge absolutely do qualify EO1 and 2 as easily cheesed. Both are game-breakingly powerful and require minimal effort and knowledge to set up. Warrior Might does make you work a lot harder than the others, but it's also even less necessary because the enemies in EO3 are weak. Even a basic EO3 party will have a good chance at beating FOEs and bosses the first time they encounter them.

Also hardcore action games tend to require at least as much knowledge, tactics, and strategy as Etrian Odyssey while also demanding execution on top of that. Even with strategy guides and superplay videos there's no easy way to cheese Battle Garegga.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 05:07:34 2017 No.4322579

>>4322543
Immunize -was- fixed later on, though. And there's also a reason Revenge didn't feature in the later EO games. To be honest though, I only played EOIII, when it comes to I and II I've only heard what people said about it. But III was well-balanced and not particularly easily cheesed.

I agree that there are some action games which require a lot of strategy. I'm also not saying that you need to be a hyper-genius to play EO games, I was just outlining the difference in "difficulty" between a turn-based game and an action game. Just because a game gives you time to think about what you want to do does not mean it can't be challenging. It does make it more challenging to actually develop a challenging turn-based game, though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 07:53:37 2017 No.4322664 >>4322579 For sure. There's no limit to how deep or challenging a turn-based game can be. All I've been saying this whole time is that EO provides only a comfortably moderate level of difficulty and that achievements are for fags.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 10:42:22 2017 No.4322865

>>4322579
I heard EO2 was "hardest". I got to the final stratum that is a golden palace with bird people then got bored. Fuck that game.
Apparently the 3DS games are EVEN EASIER so it's pretty clear "difficulty' isn't really what the market wants from these games.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 10:45:23 2017 No.4322870

>>4322171
>the amount of time it takes to clear a shmup is nowhere near the time investment MMOs demand.
It is really hard to judge because shmups don't have in-game clocks, but I remember reading in the full extent of the jam that the guy took 2 weeks of constant playing to 1cc both loops daioujou. I'd say if you can't 1cc a shooter while playing 6 hours a day for a month it's time to cut your losses and stop playing.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 10:50:14 2017 No.4322876
File: 99 KB, 512x768, 17-EOII_41_13.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4322102
Pretty sure the japanese garden stratum in EO2 has invisible holes that put you RIGHT IN FRONT of the Trigourd FOE niggers, which happen to be invisible, and there's no way of knowing that in your first playthrough. I'll absolutely blame the game for being a poorly designed piece of shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 10:52:17 2017 No.4322879 >>4322543 >beating FOEs the first time you encounter them You're really supposed to run away, the game even tells you that. >inb4 video of some japanese kid doing it with an underleveled party of a single farmer

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 10:54:49 2017 No.4322884
File: 419 KB, 580x435, kb-1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4322171
>You're not going to get anywhere in the genre if you can't improvise and read patterns on the fly.
That's what I said, reaction times. Shmups are big monkey-see monkey-do genre, you see a bullet stream, you tap dodge to the other side of the screen, use a bomb if you're caved in. There is zero strategy, just reflexes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 10:57:03 2017 No.4322890 MOOOOOOODS!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT RETRO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 11:24:51 2017 No.4322929
File: 1.40 MB, 2121x2204, ParticipationAward.jpg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>RPGs are not hard, just time consuming
Can't this argument also be made for arcade shooters? High difficulty is an obviously easy way to artificially lengthen the playtime of a 20 minute long game to months or even years.

Also the meme that "in arcades YOU are the save file" isn't necessarily true. If you stop playing for a year there will be clearly a decrease in your skill and muscle memory.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 11:29:03 2017 No.4322945 >>4322929 Just like the effect of rotational velocidensity on save integrity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 11:34:01 2017 No.4322958 >>4322945 Disc rot is real. We're all rotting as we speak and we're gonna die and lose all our savefiles someday.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 11:34:40 2017 No.4322960 >>4322958 I don't give a shit, I have my Dragon Quest save file written on paper.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 11:37:33 2017 No.4322963 >>4322960 Japanese version a shit. I hope your famicom stops functioning and you die of cancer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 11:41:52 2017 No.4322972 File: 77 KB, 360x480, snapshot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So I just download Donpachi and the game is easily cheesable, you just press 5 and the game keeps giving you extra lives and bombs. Is this supposed to be hard for you weebs?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 11:44:59 2017 No.4322978 File: 570 KB, 648x570, Ikaruga Dreamcast brasil.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The only challenging shmup was Ikaruga. The greatest space shooter ever made.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 11:51:02 2017 No.4322982 The only "hard" shmups is the Gradius trilogy. All the other ones allow you easily cheese by using continues

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 12:01:38 2017 No.4322994

>>4322529
You're still being disingenuous I think. The EO games certainly aren't yhe hardest games ever made, but they're also much harder than the average either in retro times or now.

And I think you really know that because you immediately went to Wizardry and then Rogue.

If you go into any Etrian Odyssey without spoilers the experience is quite challenging by rpg standards. Not "the hardest ever" but on the upper end. So talking about it as if it's completely trivial because you know exactly the best expoits comes off as a little silly.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 12:23:05 2017 No.4323021 >>4319716 >>4319717 I prefer ingame cheat codes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 12:37:44 2017 No.4323035 File: 12 KB, 320x224, Ecco_the_Dolphin_US_debug_menu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4323021 You prefer something completely unrelated? Okay I guess. In game cheats can be pretty rad though

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 13:15:31 2017 No.4323087
File: 719 KB, 480x320, 1443053770989.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Ignore the troll folks, no need to attempt rational discussion with someone that has no intention of doing the same.

I don't see anything wrong with RetroAchievements, it can help give you ideas for what to do in a game you have already finished, and they're made by fans so there shouldn't be any arbitrary padding or similar garbage.

The only thing I can see going badly about it for me is if I get too invested in the '100%' and forget that ultimately, I am the one who defines a game's completion requirements, not the creators or the achievement list. If I decide that 'The End' is my typical completion level, and cut it off at that, then I need to recognize that even if the dev says otherwise, it is completed in my mind.

That's the only thing that can go wrong with achievements for me. They can make me feel like I have not done enough, and that can potentially bug me. But I think that's more a personal problem with completion and not a problem with achievements.

So the tl;dr is:

>achievements are okay if done well
>don't let achievement lists for a game overrule your own definition of completion for that game

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 13:20:38 2017 No.4323094 >>4323087 >If I decide that 'The End' is my typical completion level, and cut it off at that, then I need to recognize that even if the dev says otherwise, it is completed in my mind. That is not how it works, Tim.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 13:26:23 2017 No.4323104 >>4323087 >Everyone with a differing opinion is a troll How is this not a troll post in itself? You're not actually contributing to this thread with this kind of snobbish mentality; you're just proliferating the very thing you're complaining about.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 13:36:26 2017 No.4323117

>>4323104
A differing opinion is not inherently trolling. It becomes trolling when one can no longer express it without devolving to things like logical fallacy, attacks on one's person, or petty insults.

I aim to dismiss them in one quick sentence, as unless they can express ideas in a productive way, they are not worth much more.

>>4323094
Can you explain why you feel that my statement is incorrect?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 14:19:31 2017 No.4323186 >>4322320 Not that guy, but Romancing SaGa 2 Makes you wish you were playing a relaxing mapdrawing blobber again.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 14:23:05 2017 No.4323189

>>4323117
>It becomes trolling when one can no longer express it without devolving to things like logical fallacy, attacks on one's person, or petty insults.

Preemptively branding dissenting anons as trolls is an attack on one's person. I'm not inclined to take anything in your post seriously.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 14:45:48 2017 No.4323220

>>4323189
Preemptive suggests that such branding has not been warranted. I've seen enough posts in this thread now which included weak argument choices like those I mentioned to know that at least one person in this thread is not willing to have a reasonable discussion. It does not take name-calling or other weak statements to express a contrary opinion.

Alas, it is not the point of the thread to discuss what is trolling or what is not trolling. The point is to discuss what one thinks about RetroAchievements. If you have nothing more to say about that topic, or if you feel you cannot have such discussion without resorting to weak statements or unreasonable behavior, then I will no longer take the effort to entertain you with responses.

Now then, back to the topic at hand.

If you are the person here >>4323094

then can you explain why you feel that the quoted statement there is incorrect?

If you are not that person, then do you have another statement which you would like to make that would add to this discussion? If so, I invite you to add your comments on RetroAchievements and join in the discussion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 14:53:18 2017 No.4323237 >>4323220 >>4323087 Crazy to think that on a retro video game board that people might not want an altered game with modern gimmicks.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 14:57:37 2017 No.4323245

>>4323237
I agree, somewhat at least.

Weighing more on the issue, I personally would be more inclined to look up a list of challenges others had done, or to make up some of my own, rather than have them inserted into the game. Personally, achievements and their completion ratings can bother me more often then not. I'm not necessarily convinced that they are all bad, however.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:00:29 2017 No.4323251 >>4323237 >THEN: go on board, see people talking about doing a buster-only run of MMX, try it yourself, complete the challenge, go online and tell them you did it >NOW: the exact same shit only now you a little message box pops up saying you did it

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:02:44 2017 No.4323257 >>4320295 > Market research on 30 year old games. Yeahhhhhhh.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:04:04 2017 No.4323259 >>4323245 >>4323251 The first achievement for Sonic is to collect 20 rings. How in the fuck is that not modern trash applied to a retro game?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:07:12 2017 No.4323269 >>4323259 >Implying /v/ children wouldn't have trouble with that. Haven't you heard the news, Sonic is the DArk Souls of platformers now.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:09:13 2017 No.4323276 >>4323257 I do know fighting games give you an achievement for even participating in a fight at all in Vs mode so they can know exactly what percentage of the userbase actually cares about competition. Spoiler, it's not too much.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:13:09 2017 No.4323290 >>4323259 It's to keep children motivated with good self esteem, I guess. Have you played a cellphone game, everything you do gives you a GOOD, AWESOME, EXCELLENT, GREAT JOB.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:13:38 2017 No.4323292

>>4322529
I would say that if cheesing a game requires extensive testing and experimenting, it's not "easily cheesed." I didn't find the games "brutally hard," even on release, but most people did, because the average person doesn't test every option they get, gives up easily on games that put up resistance, etc. But I don't think it's reasonable to say "yeah if you experiment with every option in the game, it's possible to stumble upon the hilariously broken skills, so the game is easily cheesed." Does that make sense?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:14:26 2017 No.4323294 File: 37 KB, 640x480, 1497115382990.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4323290 >It's to keep children motivated with good self esteem, I guess. 90s kids didn't have these problems and I don't think many kids today are playing retro games.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:16:23 2017 No.4323297

>>4323259
Modern games have easy filler achievements for new players starting out, so in copying that, retroachievements has some of those too. Doesn't mean the actually legitimate achievements are any less fun to get. Besides, that's really just there to get you to work toward the 200 ring achievement, which is actually challenging.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:16:46 2017 No.4323298 [DELETED]

File: 943 KB, 1018x571, ghostbusters-trailer-hed-2016.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4323294
Women do, though. if they don't have their egos constantly massaged with positive role models they crawl into a ball and cry themselves into depression. Are you saying women are not welcome into retro gaming you fucking sexist?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:18:05 2017 No.4323301 >>4323292 Every RPG ever can be cheesed, you can just look up dungeon maps or monster weaknesses on gamefaqs and wikia. It's a dumbass genre for low iq brainlet retards.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:18:14 2017 No.4323302 >>4323292 Yeah easily cheesed would be if every class had something game breaking. His other pointvhe said is that achievements are for "fags" so he's really just trolling.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:19:07 2017 No.4323304 >>4323298 >gets mad about women out of nowhere because he saw a picture of sailor moon What am I gonna do with you, anon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:19:11 2017 No.4323305 >>4323302 You can be trolling and still be right.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:19:20 2017 No.4323306
File: 476 KB, 574x413, 1485033760407.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4323297
>work toward the 200 ring achievement, which is actually challenging.
>200 ring achievement
>actually challenging.
Well thanks for proving that anyone that supports this cancer is the cancer themselves.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:23:20 2017 No.4323316 >>4323306 Have you tried it? Sonic 1 does not have that many rings.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:23:41 2017 No.4323317

>>4323104
Because he's not talking about expressing different opinions, he's talking about purposeful baiting and shitposting which has been rampant in this thread.

He's not saying to disregard opinions made in a reasonable fashion. He's saying to ignore the troll who is flooding the thread with "cancer" and "fag" every other word.

Ignoring them is just daily life on 4chan but it's still decent advice.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:24:03 2017 No.4323319 >>4323306 It requires you play perfectly for a decent period of time, and IIRC your rings reset if you finish a level, so I don't know what's fillin your diaper but you gotta get that shit changed out before you get a rash, dude.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:24:42 2017 No.4323323 >>4323306 >200 rings challenge Scratch what i said, it can be done on the first stage in 2 minutes. Yeah it's trash.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:25:03 2017 No.4323324 >>4323316 Ya kid it's real fucking hard to just back track through levels picking up rings.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:25:24 2017 No.4323325 >>4323305 While technically true trolling makes everything you say look worse.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:25:45 2017 No.4323327 >>4323324 I admit I was full of shit. It's been decades since I collected rings in Sonic, man. Rings are pointless when you never die. >>4323319 See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB5sLBf2EOg

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:27:05 2017 No.4323329 >>4323324 Even collecting 100 rings in Scrap Brain is not much of a challenge.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:29:16 2017 No.4323332

>>4323325
I'm not gonna pretend that there were a ton of enemies or traps to dodge, but he still spent two whole minutes not getting hit once, and if nothing else you could argue that collecting 200 rings in one stage forces you to check out every single part and route of the map and encourages you to explore rather than blowing through it as fast as possible, so I still don't see the problem.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:30:18 2017 No.4323336 >>4323332 Meant for>>4323327

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:32:22 2017 No.4323337 >>4323332 It's Green hill zone dude...

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:33:37 2017 No.4323339

>>4323337
It's particularly easy to blow through the level and miss the alternate routes, yeah. I'm saying that even though it's an easy achievement to get, it still encourages you to see parts of the level you might not normally bother with, and maybe a player would apply that to the rest of the levels, too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:34:18 2017 No.4323340 >>4323332 Sonic is shit, achievements are shit, everything is pointless and everybody is gonna die someday.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:35:15 2017 No.4323341

>>4323340
Sonic is fun, achievements are inconsequential, everything is pointless and everybody is gonna die some day so instead of spending your time worrying about how other people are enjoying themselves, worry about how're you're gonna enjoy yourself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:35:44 2017 No.4323343 >>4323339 It's fucking green hill zone...

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:35:58 2017 No.4323345 >>4323339 You don't even unlock a cheevo in the rest of the levels though, you only get one once.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:37:33 2017 No.4323347 File: 195 KB, 620x350, ikaruga-android.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The only achievement I need is playing the hardest shooter ever made. Ikaruga.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:46:10 2017 No.4323360
File: 130 KB, 640x480, 20113-menu-Ikaruga.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Real talk, you know why Ikaruga shits all over your favorite shmup? Because even the arcade board gives you a Hard mode selection at the beginning of the game rather than forcing you to play through an entire trivial loop to get to the challenging part.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 15:57:52 2017 No.4323368 >>4323347 >>4323360 kys treasurefag

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:01:52 2017 No.4323371
File: 47 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4323368
I'm only mentioning it because someone brought up Dodonmoeshitpachi earlier in the thread.
>having to play through the entire game twice without dying and bombing only to game over instantly at an eyerape secret boss and have to do it all over and over again
Good game design, CAVE.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:02:39 2017 No.4323374

>>4323332
I didn't even bother reading what the actual discussion was about, I was just responding to the point about trolling. And that illustrates it, all it does ia add useless noise to any point you're trying to make. First someone has to sift through the bullshit to find if there's any real pointand by then it's less likely to take it seriously even if there is some truth to it.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:09:08 2017 No.4323385

>>4322870
Multiple loops and true last bosses and such are obviously going to take considerably more time and skill than a regular 1cc. If that's a problem then don't go for the extremely high-end stuff. A DOJ 1-all will take 1/10 the time of a 2-all and there are easier shmups you can clear in a weekend.

>>4322884
You do need memorization, good precision, and a good reaction time. You also need enough problem solving ability to figure out the best way to deal with each enemy formation and boss attack. You will want to have a plan for how you're going to manage your bombs and other resources. You will have to react to deviations from your planned route, not just in terms of reflexes, but also tactically. If you focus only how to make through the current pattern with no regard for what kind of position you'll be in afterwards, you will lose.

It's much the same skillset as any action game, except generally more demanding, especially in the ability to visually track several different things at once. Most shmups will have far more encounters you can't just memorize through than most platformers do.

Now please stop trying to look like you know something about games you don't know how to play.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:13:58 2017 No.4323393
File: 69 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4323385
>Multiple loops and true last bosses and such are obviously going to take considerably more time and skill than a regular 1cc.
That's not even the point. Ikaruga Hard mode IS equivalent to a second loop.

My point is that difficulty selection is OBJECTIVELY better designing than being forced to play through the entire game twice while meeting crazy requirements like the sum of your bombs used and times you died must be equal or less than six. And if you disagree you are a masochist or a cuck.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:17:26 2017 No.4323398 >>4323393 Good example of a decent point lessened by using trolling as a crutch. What you say is true but you still come off as a tool.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:24:13 2017 No.4323412 [DELETED]

>>4323398
I can see how restricting bombs and deaths as a requirement can be challenging but it also kind of backfires, in the case of Ketsui URA loop for example you end up facing the true last boss with so many extra bombs and lives that the TLB fight ends up becoming EASIER than the loop itself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:30:45 2017 No.4323430 >>4323393 >That's not even the point. Wasn't replying to you.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:39:10 2017 No.4323441

>>4322994
They're right on the line of average for retro games. They're about as hard as games like Castlevania which are nontrivial, but that everyone beat anyway without serious problems. They're harder than most RPGs only because most RPGs are ridiculously easy.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:48:38 2017 No.4323452

RPGs are easy because you can't make a 60 hour long epic as hard as an arcade game. That would be preposterous, people would spend hours grinding just to get through the first boss in the story. That is also why extreme difficulty JRPG romhacks like FF6 Brave New World never work.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 16:57:25 2017 No.4323463

>>4323441
Comparing an action game to an rpg is ridiculous since the challenge is so different.

>They're harder than most RPGs only because most RPGs are ridiculously easy.

This is the only point that matters, and yes they are. EO isn't tough like Rouge or it's children (one if my favorite games and genres) but it's still a fun challenge (I don't read guides for them) that surpasses most other rpgs. Which is a genre I burnt out on and stopped playing about 15 years ago. EO is interesting and challenging enough to keep me intetested.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 17:36:48 2017 No.4323538 >>4323463 You can tell someone's IQ is below 100 if they can't even spell rogue.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 17:54:01 2017 No.4323551 File: 1.50 MB, 2100x1398, romasaga2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4323452 >you can't make a 60 hour long epic as hard as an arcade game blocks your path

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 18:13:07 2017 No.4323573 >>4323551 Except RS2 is nowhere near the long, especially if you just let several generations die immediately and skip much of the game's padding.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 18:38:11 2017 No.4323596 File: 333 KB, 571x417, skorl punch.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >achievements where the "achievement" is losing or fucking up in some way >"Oops..." >"Bad end..." >"Try again..."

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 18:41:17 2017 No.4323606

>>4323538
I spelled it correctly plenty of times in the thread, dude. It was just a slipped word.

I'm sure you take the point though. EO is an rpg series, sure it's not Wizardry but is up there with harder examples of the genre. And is far harder than an average example if the genre such as FF, DQ, PS, BoF etc

Many of the SMT games (not played 1-3 but harder than Soul Hackers, Persona 1 and 2 IS/EP, Strange Journey and Smt4)

I haven't played the rom sagas but i put them as more challenging than saga 1-3 which I have played as well as Saga Frontier 1 and 2 as well as Final Fantasy 2 which is my favorite in the series.

If those games came out over here for any console during the retro age they would have been among if not the hardest rpgs on the system.

Which you know full well and why I say you're really being disingenuous with this whole argument.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 18:42:07 2017 No.4323608 >>4323606 >reddit spacing Yeah, no. Just go.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 18:44:14 2017 No.4323612 >>4323596 What is Ridge Racer Type 4.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 18:58:44 2017 No.4323634 >>4323608 Are you the same guy now who kept calling me "kid" earlier? Deflecting the discussion to troll about something like paragraph spacing really makes it look like that's literally all you're doing here. It's certainly what he was doing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 18:59:40 2017 No.4323636 >>4323634 >ook ook eek eek me want banana ook ook Huh? Who let their pet monkey post on this site?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 19:05:08 2017 No.4323645 >>4323636 Okay then thanks for wasting everyone's time with what now truly is what it always seemed. Nothing more than blantant shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 19:07:45 2017 No.4323648 >>4323634 Hey man. You should know that isn't me because I don't use /v/ greentext.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 19:12:32 2017 No.4323653 >>4323648 Makes sense. He actually was able to make some vague points through the shitposting. All you ever do is babble like a mental patient.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 19:14:43 2017 No.4323658 >>4323653 Sounds like a personal problem.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 19:17:34 2017 No.4323664

When did this board become so toxic? I don't want to play retro games with shoehorned features like achievements. Persistently shitposting at anyone who doesn't want to play with achievements isn't going to do anything to change their mind, it's probably just going to make them hate the idea of achievements even more.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 19:18:36 2017 No.4323667 >>4323664 Ook ook EEK EEK EEK!!!!!! ook eek ook.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 19:33:19 2017 No.4323694 >>4323664 >I don't want to play retro games with shoehorned features like achievements Then don't. Nobody cares.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 20:32:22 2017 No.4323789

Had never heard of this thing, so I checked it out, and a lot of it is broken as hell.
>try Donkey Kong 3
>achievements for reaching round x without dying
>they don't ACTUALLY check if you've died, so you get them no matter how much you die

>achievements for reaching round x on game B
>checks what round you're on as well as a byte that's 01 if you're in game A and 00 if you're in game B OR on the title screen, which means getting a game over in game A on the specific round you're asked to reach will count as you reaching it on game B when you return to the title screen

Great quality control here.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 20:42:43 2017 No.4323808

>>4319716
My favorite kind of achievements, retro or otherwise, are the kind that encourage the player to play in a way they might not have without the encouragement. When done well they help the player learn the game's mechanics and might help them find a more efficient or fun way of playing.

While I understand the purpose of achievements like Completed Level 1, Completed Level 2, etc (So the devs can see how far the majority of people got in the game and use that data to tailor the next game's length, difficulty, etc) from the player's perspective they're really just filler.

And achievements like kill X amount of Y enemy, sometimes with Z item/spell/ability/etc, are just tedious.

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 20:50:47 2017 No.4323829

>>4319716
It depends. Achievements for doing unusual things or setting up an extra challenge are fine. But then you have really stupid ones you would get just by playing the game naturally. For example, the Pokemon games on here have an achievement for every gym badge. What's the fucking point?

Anonymous Thu Oct 12 23:04:15 2017 No.4324080

>>4323664
This is a very ironic post considering that in this thread most of the people who said they liked achievements for one reason or another were generally well mannered. Most of the shitposting and namecalling that had made the thread toxic are by those who don't like them. They're the ones yelling about "cancer" and other rubbish.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 12 23:06:21 2017 No.4324083 >>4323808 Totally agree with this. It's surprising sometimes though how a seemingly small thing can really make you have to rethink your strategy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 10:20:50 2017 No.4324810 >>4323829 It shows how far you got in a game. Not everyone beats everything they start.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 11:23:54 2017 No.4324929 Man I miss the days when /vr/ didn't make /v/ look like a friendly intelligent by comparison. The curse of the slow board strikes again though.

Anonymous Fri Oct 13 11:47:14 2017 No.4324974

>>4323094
All he was really saying there is than he doesn't let achievements get in his way of enjoying a game. So if he feels "done" with a game even though he didn't get all the achievements for collecting every little thing or doing a perfect no-hits run, it's not a problem for him. But he recognizes that there are some people who have issues with completionism and that's where the only potential for a downside in them is. Which makes sense.

The concept of deciding for yourself that you're done with a game is totally normal and happens all the time.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 11:48:17 2017 No.4324980 >>4324929 akshully threads about the retroarachivements site have been around since the board creation and they've always been pretty negative

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 11:58:26 2017 No.4324990 >>4324980 I wish I had been talking just or even mostly about this thread. Even for 4chan this place is a mess these days.

Anonymous Fri Oct 13 12:06:58 2017 No.4325001

If you guys hate this board so much, then why are you persistently bumping an unpopular thread? You're egging on the so-called trolling just as much as other anons. Obviously this board doesn't like retro achievements. Do you guys have literal autism? Do you need to force us to like something we don't like just because you like it? It's time to move on.

Anonymous Fri Oct 13 12:12:32 2017 No.4325014
File: 59 KB, 240x224, 1142394767620.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4325001
It's like the board and the site in general. The thread has potential and has had some bits of good dialogue. it's just a shame that 4chan now has the reputation it has so now people come here with just the purpose of being dicks.

I just miss the fun times here is all. They're few and far between these days. Every other post is faggot this and cancer that now, it's so dull.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 12:15:00 2017 No.4325019 >>4325001 >Obviously this board doesn't like retro achievements. Why?

Anonymous Fri Oct 13 12:26:51 2017 No.4325039

>>4325001
>Obviously this board doesn't like retro achievements.

Contentious thing to even say. Considering it was proved in this thread that the most vocal person against them also repeatedly makes replies to the OP saying very similar phrases. As well others against it were shown to be actively and purposefully shitposting..

Where as most of the actual productive conversation in the thread has been between people positive or neutral about it discussing what works well and what doesn't.

So saying that "the board doesn't like retro achievements" is at best a stretch and at worst just nothing else but more of this garbage. >>4320820

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 12:28:15 2017 No.4325040 >>4325039 >Considering it was proved in this thread that the most vocal person against them also repeatedly makes replies to the OP saying very similar phrases. You got mental problems anon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 12:34:05 2017 No.4325050 >>4325040 No, but I legitimately think he does. Read the post chain on the vanishingly minuscule chance you're not just him again trying to pretend to be someone else.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 12:34:59 2017 No.4325052 >>4325050 >but I legitimately think he does. >it was proved Brain problems, anon

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 12:37:43 2017 No.4325058 >>4325052 lol

Anonymous Fri Oct 13 15:20:23 2017 No.4325367
File: 83 KB, 300x301, Kdl1ussmall.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4323360
Underrated.

Why didn't more retro shmups have at least a cheat code they gave you at the end so you can access further loops when you want? Kirby figured it out, why didn't they?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 18:18:06 2017 No.4325617 >>4321719 Fucking how? Everything is random. You should say he got LUCKY 30 times in a row.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 20:11:45 2017 No.4325842 >>4319716 If the game wasn't designed with them in mind they never seem to work as well.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 20:17:43 2017 No.4325859 >>4325842 Besides broken shit due to lazy devs who didn't test their shit and used the wrong memory addresses or conditions for the rule sets I don't see how.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 20:29:50 2017 No.4325884 >>4325367 But Kirby didn't loop?

Anonymous Fri Oct 13 20:32:05 2017 No.4325892

>>4325842
>>4325859
Yeah, looking at the system makes it clear a lot of stuff is going to be "do x without taking damage/in x seconds/without collecting powerups" type challenges you'll see in official rereleases. Their Mega Man achievements are the exact same no damage run/mega buster only run stuff Capcom goes with.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 20:32:22 2017 No.4325894 >>4325842 Harder for sure, everything is better when it's done by the original devs. But if it's not broken or done shitty I think it's cool.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 20:33:31 2017 No.4325897 >>4325884 Not him but he probably meant the hard mode. It would be possible,

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 20:43:35 2017 No.4325917 >>4325892 I'm saying that all the data is available, only obstacle is that the people who are making the achievements are lazy cunts and no one tests their shit or fixes it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 22:24:03 2017 No.4326085 >>4325917 Yeah no excuse for not testing shit. But I meant it's better to make achievements while designing the game where they can come up with good ones than take a 20 year old game and shoehorn shit in there.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 22:25:39 2017 No.4326087 >>4326085 Depends on the game. It's easy enough to find achievements in games that have a lot of optional content, branching paths, second quests, hard modes, etc.

Anonymous Fri Oct 13 22:57:42 2017 No.4326128

>>4319716
I'm not sure what RetroAchievements are but some of the first retro "achievements" I know of were the Activision patches from way back in the Atari days (yes, I have a few). Back then, if you beat certain scores and sent a photo or signed & witnessed letter to Activision, they'd send you a patch for the game you met the requirements for (e.g., Bucket Brigadier patch for Kaboom!, Flying Aces patch for Barnstorming, Save the Chicken Foundation patch for Freeway, etc.).

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 13 23:17:53 2017 No.4326147 >>4319716 Fucking rubbish

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 10:40:04 2017 No.4326842 >>4326128 That is super cool actually.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 10:44:09 2017 No.4326847 >>4326128 Ah yes, that was a really cool idea, thanks for pointing out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 11:28:53 2017 No.4326903 >>4325617 You really shouldn't go spouting off on games you know nothing about. Luck plays a surprisingly small role in roguelikes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 11:35:00 2017 No.4326913 >>4326903 And yet pre-seeded abuse is a thing

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 11:37:43 2017 No.4326916 >>4326903 Closest I've been to roguelikes was binding of isaac, and luck was definitely important, the developers even went out of their way to prevent restarting to manipulate drops. So how is Nethack different from BoI?

Anonymous Sat Oct 14 12:00:57 2017 No.4326952

>>4326913
It's the same thing as save scumming. I think people who do it are really missing the point, but it's their game.

>>4326916
I haven't played much of it. I was designed as Zelda dungeons with a roguelike basis. Other than that I can't say much. I should have said in a well made roguelike luck isn't really much of a factor. You can obviously get a super lucky drop or stuck in a very unlucky position. But overall being good at them is knowing how to deal with challenges in a number of ways regardless of what the RNG threw at you this time.

Anonymous Sat Oct 14 13:55:42 2017 No.4327118

>>4326085
I dunno. I looked at their Contra page:
http://retroachievements.org/Game/1447

There's the usual "beat level x" crap for the kiddies, sure, but you also get "beat level x without shooting or dying" challenges, "beat boss x with these restrictions" challenges and other neat shit that sounds relatively fun to see if you can do. I don't see what Konami could really come up with that would be better than these.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 13:58:09 2017 No.4327120 >>4326916 >>4326916 In Nethack, being able to handle the situations you get thrown into matters a whole lot less than what drops you get. You get Wands of Wishing so you can wish for most of the shit you need that didn't drop yet anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 14:02:24 2017 No.4327130 >>4327118 People don't realize the site is largely a community effort, some pages are really well made, some don't even work at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 14:05:58 2017 No.4327137 >>4327130 It's true that achievements should be verified to work as they should before they get added to the site, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 14 21:13:00 2017 No.4327914 >>4327118 That's the trouble, with a really simple game like a platformer there aren't many other kinds of achievements to come up with. Unless it's really weird like a no kills run in Mario or something.

Anonymous Sat Oct 14 22:55:16 2017 No.4328101

>>4327914
Not every game needs a bunch of sophisticated achievements, in fact most of the sets on RA tend to be poorly thought out and copy-paste the same ones for every possibly opportunity (like how every world has the same series of achievements in Mario's case) which just ends up being dull.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 15 00:40:52 2017 No.4328269 >>4323789 It's mostly fan done from what I know. Shit like Zelda and mainline Mario games will have quality control. The NES DK games that aren't the first one and obscure Master System games probably will have terrible quality.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 15 00:47:15 2017 No.4328274 >>4324080 >>4323664 >toxic How long has reddit been here?

Anonymous Sun Oct 15 00:57:10 2017 No.4328292

>>4328269
DK Jr's achievements aren't too bad (kill 10 enemies in a single loop, jump over 10 enemies on stage 3, kill two enemies with one fruit, etc), but they're all relatively easy and they don't have any achievements for reaching certain loops or certain score thresholds.

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/vr/ - Retro Games