/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4314384]

What's with the hate on Goldeneye

[Anonymous No.4314390]

Brosnan's Lip

[Anonymous No.4314401]

It's just not the technical marvel that nintenyearolds remember it as. There were only so many options for 4-player FPS on consoles at that point. So anything resembling a finished game would have been lauded as an accomplishment.

[Anonymous No.4314471]

revisionist memes.

[Anonymous No.4314493]

Sony fanboys love to pick on this game to "prove" that the N64's library was never good

[Anonymous No.4314520]

>>4314493
The people that pick this game apart the most are people that had a PC since they had a wider selection of FPS. I know you Nintendrones like to blame competitor fans all the time, but this isn't the case with N64 FPS.

[Anonymous No.4314525]

>>4314384
It was a bad game just that simple, no ones really "hating" on it.

[Jibwib Simmerstim, Esq. No.4314526]

I had tons of fun with it back in the day, but the N64 controller is abysmal.

[Anonymous No.4314529]

Controls are really shit by modern standards and it's really difficult to go back to.

That's it.

[Anonymous No.4314540]

>>4314525
>It was a bad game

Not at the time. It was a system seller back then.

[Anonymous No.4314541]

Cant handle an FPS with personality and flavor

[Anonymous No.4314565]

i had PSX at that age
my friend had N64
we argued endlessly over which console was better
i admired a number of N64 games (Jet Force Gemini, Zelda, etc.) but most of what i saw was trash

i played Goldeneye at his house and could not get into it at all

awkward A.I.
enemies looked utterly stupid
controls were awful

i thought it was shit then and i still think it is shit now. Perfect Dark was 100x better and a genuinely good game

[Anonymous No.4314567]

Console FPSes deserve hate, basically.

[Anonymous No.4314572]

Had more fun with this than any FPS on PC, maybe besides Jedi Outcast, Doom, HL2

[Anonymous No.4314614]

people like to be contrarians when a lot of people like something. i think they feel somehow left out

[Anonymous No.4314615]

>>4314540
>Not at the time
Yes at the time, just compare it to games like quake

[Anonymous No.4314631]

>>4314384
Never played the game much. It's aged like milk.

Watched the movie last night and it borders on so-bad-its-good. Why is Bond such a huge thing again?

[Anonymous No.4314656]

>>4314615
They're different.

[Anonymous No.4314659]

>>4314384
it's just a meme. like how /asp/ calls the undertaker the undercarder

[Anonymous No.4314662]

>>4314656
Yeah, Quake was good :^)

[Anonymous No.4314667]

>>4314659
No the game is genuinely bad and people dislike it for legit reasons.

[Anonymous No.4314668]

>>4314662
extra spicy

[Anonymous No.4314692]

>>4314384
PC fanboys don't like it steals glory of their first person shooters.
Actually it's still a rather innovative game.

[Anonymous No.4314843]

>>4314659
Taker never drew a dime

[Anonymous No.4314849]

>>4314384
Gotta hate something

[Anonymous No.4314863]

>>4314520
Pretty much this. We had significantly better multiplayer shooters years before goldeneye.

[Anonymous No.4314935]

>>4314401
>It's just not the technical marvel that nintenyearolds remember it as.
The game is absolutely amazing from a tech perspective. What are you talking about? How many FPS FPS games in 1997 strove for the level of "cinematic realism" (a term the developers used)?

>>4314631
>Watched the movie last night and it borders on so-bad-its-good.
You crazy. The GoldenEye film is a masterpiece of post-Cold War drama. The soundtrack is incredible. The acting is on point.

>>4314615
>Yes at the time, just compare it to games like quake
GE made Quake look extremely archaic. Terrible animation, terrible character models, and gameplay that was nothing more than shooting enemies as your ran through a maze.

[Anonymous No.4314952]

>>4314863
>We had significantly better multiplayer shooters years before goldeneye.
GoldenEye's MP was tossed together in 6 weeks primarily by one person working without the knowledge of Rare management. Who the fuck cares about multiplayer in an FPS game? The real design innovation has always been singleplayer/co-op/etc.

[Anonymous No.4314964]

>>4314935
>GE made Quake look extremely archaic. Terrible animation, terrible character models, and gameplay that was nothing more than shooting enemies as your ran through a maze.
Not him, and I like both games, but if you think Quake is just "shooting enemies as you run through a maze", you either haven't played the game or are an absolute fucking retard. Quake has so much more depth than GE could ever hope for. Each level is essentially a puzzle, and has multiple paths you can take in solving it. It's about memorizing the layout, the enemy patterns, where powerups are and how to best use them before they run out, which weapon to use for certain enemies to avoid wasting ammo, etc. Quake absolutely shits on GE in terms of difficulty and depth. GE has some cool stuff like location-based damage, but it's mostly just fluff. The ironic part of what you're saying is that "running through a maze shooting enemies" is actually a more fitting description for Goldeneye. I also don't know where you get get off on shitting on Quake for "terrible animations and character models" when Goldeneye is butt fucking ugly and barely even has animations.

Now, if you were talking about Perfect Dark, you'd actually have an argument. Sadly, you chose the retard-tier shooter instead.

[Anonymous No.4314985]

>>4314952
>Who the fuck cares about multiplayer in an FPS game?

I just want to highlight the part where you lost all credibility.

[Anonymous No.4314995]

>>4314964
>Goldeneye is butt fucking ugly and barely even has animations.
Uh... What? GoldenEye was famous for its incredibly detailed and fluid animation. Quake didn't even have motion interpolation, so everything was jittery as fuck.
>Quake absolutely shits on GE in terms of difficulty and depth.
GoldenEye is inspired by Mario 64. It eschews traditional difficulty. It's not about staying alive. It's about completing the objectives without fucking up.

[Anonymous No.4314998]

>>4314985
Multiplayer in FPS games is an evolutionary dead end. Competitive gaming is a waste of time. It was an afterthought in GE for a reason.

[Anonymous No.4315004]

I didn't play it as a teen or child and never played the local multiplayer. No hate from me, just no hype either.

[Anonymous No.4315009]

Golden eye is something that really only has great significance in the world of console gaming.

[Anonymous No.4315028]

>>4315009
>Golden eye is something that really only has great significance in the world of console gaming.
Which is why everything from Counter Strike to Thief was influenced by it. Which is why basically every FPS with stealth elements takes leaves from its book. Which is why the entire "cinematic" FPS genre is directly descended from it.

[Anonymous No.4315029]

>>4314935
>The game is absolutely amazing from a tech perspective. What are you talking about?
It's a movie-based FPS that didn't suck. Again, that doesn't make it groundbreaking from a purely technical standpoint. Look up pic related. Oh, and it's from 1995.

[Anonymous No.4315032]

>>4314998
It's an after-thought because a vs mode on tiny split screens is a joke compared to unreal tournament.

You're just trying to avoid coming to terms with the fact that the multiplayer sucks.

Fact: when Golden Eye came the multiplayer was praised about by consolefags and the magazines that wanted to appease, because it was the first VS shooter any of them played and so it wow'ed them. In retrospect it's embarrassing and really shows the game's reputation was not deserved.

[Anonymous No.4315036]

>>4314401
T. 19 year old edgelord who knows fuck-all about games from a technical standpoint. Goldeneye/perfect dark did shit PC's werent doing yet. Rare was talented as hell back in the day.

[Anonymous No.4315043]

>>4315028
The cinematic FPS comes from Half life but it was prototyped in Trespasser. Trespasser never really got credit for it because the game was incredibly buggy and had a very weak release.

The stealth elements in Golden Eye are no better than they were in any other shooter.

If it did influence other games it was a marginal influence. The

[Anonymous No.4315056]

>>4315029
Terminator: Future Shock is a neat game, but it isn't doing any of the "cinematic realism" stuff Rareware were doing. Listen to GE's sound design, for example. Every time you fire a gun, 6-7 different sound effects are playing, slightly randomized, in order to create the tactile feeling of firing a gun. Bullets "zing" past your head. Every single surface has appropriate damage decals, and debris rains from them when shot. They meticulously tried to recreate the visual language of cinema in a videogame. You shoot glass, it breaks. You shoot steel, and sparks fly. You shoot enemies, and they jerk around dramatically. Enemies are tossed sideways by explosions, in dramatic action poses. Their animation is smooth and fluid. None of that juddery Quake-style movement.

Perfect Dark is a lot more advanced, with stuff like destroyable light sources and much more elaborate AI, but GoldenEye was light years beyond its contemporaries in 1997. They pushed technology to make games more like movies and less like Doom.

[Anonymous No.4315069]

>>4315036
What are some of the things they did that were not done earlier by pc's.

Perfect Dark's multiplayer is just a stripped down Unreal Tournament with less features, speed and players.

The whole cinematic campaign thing was already done Tomb Raider a full year earlier than golden eye

[Anonymous No.4315075]

>>4315056
Why are you comparing Golden Eye to Doom and not Half life or Tomb Raider, games that came out around the same time?

Why not compare Perfect Dark to Unreal, which came out the same year?

By 1997 and 2000 the Doom style was long faded.

[Anonymous No.4315080]

>>4315043
>The cinematic FPS comes from Half life but it was prototyped in Trespasser.
Enemies in GoldenEye usually miss you on purpose when they first shoot at you, in order to be more like a movie where the enemies can't shoot for shit. Heaps of modern FPS and TPS games do this.
>The stealth elements in Golden Eye are no better than they were in any other shooter.
GoldenEye invented FPS sound propagation. You fire a silenced pistol in a room with the door closed, nobody hears it. You fire an assault rifle in a room with the door closed, everyone comes running. Shots stack.

Additionally, GoldenEye established the design convention that a headshot is a one hit kill regardless of weapon damage. When you're playing a modern stealth FPS/TPS and you kill an enemy with a single headshot from your weakest gun, you have GoldenEye to thank for this. Even the new Wolfenstein games do this, but with a minor tweak. Enemies who are unaware of the player are killed by a single headshot. Alert enemies are more resistant. This is, however, somewhat based on the GE design idea where punching/karate chopping an unaware enemy from behind instantly knocks them out. And again, they did all these things in order to further what Martin Hollis called "cinematic realism". The entire game logic works according to rules established by Bond films. Like that scene in GoldenEye where Bond is running through the archive and bullets are spraying around him causing a shower of sparks. They recreated that by designing the entire game to behave like a film. Bullets are like squibs. This kind of thing required technology that wasn't available before 1995 or so, and it took other developers years to catch up.

[Anonymous No.4315093]

i like Goldeneye, even if I prefer the Doom/Quake formula more.
I don't know why people get so butt-blasted over this game

[Anonymous No.4315102]

>>4315075
>Why are you comparing Golden Eye to Doom and not Half life or Tomb Raider, games that came out around the same time?
Half-Life was released a year after GoldenEye. At the time of its release, basically all it had competing against it was Turok, Quake, and Doom. Plus some other games like System Shock 1. Nobody had ever played a game like it before.

Perfect Dark, for its part, took a lot of cues from games like Half-Life, but preserved GE's fluid animation and sense of freedom. A good example of this is how in PD, NPCs have conversations with you that you can simply walk away from.

[Anonymous No.4315108]

>>4314390
we can never unsee it...

[Anonymous No.4315110]

>>4314995
>Uh... What? GoldenEye was famous for its incredibly detailed and fluid animation.
Oh yeah, all that incredibly detailed and fluid animation, like when you reload a gun and it dips below the screen for 2 seconds, or how every character in multiplayer has the same set of hands. Lmao, good one kid. Again, PD was the right choice for this argument.
>GoldenEye is inspired by Mario 64. It eschews traditional difficulty. It's not about staying alive. It's about completing the objectives without fucking up.
Quake is about not fucking up too. Unlike GE though, it isn't padded out with meaningless fetch quests and retarded "put mine here" and "press button" uh, "objectives", that give the illusion of depth. But it isn't, it's just fluff. Quake conversely actually has good level design and challenge.

[Anonymous No.4315115]

>the PDfag appeared

[Anonymous No.4315121]

>>4315115
If by "PDfag" you mean "someone that appreciates an actual good game and doesn't shill some shit movie game out of pure nostalgia", then yes, here I am.

[Anonymous No.4315124]

>>4315110
>Oh yeah, all that incredibly detailed and fluid animation, like when you reload a gun and it dips below the screen for 2 seconds
It dipped fluidly. You didn't have a jittering hand model.
>or how every character in multiplayer has the same set of hands.
What on earth does that have to do with animation? GoldenEye used motion captured character animation. Turok had pioneered for a FPS genre a year earlier, but GE's was much more fluid and dynamic.
>Quake conversely actually has good level design and challenge.
Challenge doesn't automatically make games good. Combat for the sake of combat is boring. Quake is an okay game, but it was an overtly "gamey" game.

[Anonymous No.4315139]

I'm probably in the minority of preferring PC FPS games, but like Goldeneye more than Doom/Quake.

[Anonymous No.4315143]

>>4315080
>Enemies in GoldenEye usually miss you on purpose when they first shoot at you, in order to be more like a movie where the enemies can't shoot for shit.

And it looks fucking stupid when half the encounters take place at close range. Enemies can be nearly clipping through your model and still 'miss'. It doesn't look cinematic it looks stupid.

Enemies with the ability to miss their shots have existed since forever and were done in less stupid ways.

The rest of what you said really makes it seem like you think all PC shooters were Doom until the year 2000 and you seem to be basing your case on nitpicking. Ok you have headshots. You still have outdated environments and level design that is essentially a series of tubes where you occasionally throw a gadget onto a widget populated with enemies that have ai marginally better than the the imps from doom. It's so far behind Half life and Tomb Raider. Most people I knew that had PCs when Goldeneye came out didn't even care it existed. But everyone that only had consoles were hooked (mostly on the multiplayer LOL)

[Anonymous No.4315151]

>>4315121
yep, the same obnoxious PDfaggot

[Anonymous No.4315160]

>>4315143
>And it looks fucking stupid when half the encounters take place at close range. Enemies can be nearly clipping through your model and still 'miss'. It doesn't look cinematic it looks stupid.
Perfect Dark fixed this by making enemies perform martial arts at close range.

>Enemies with the ability to miss their shots have existed since forever and were done in less stupid ways.

Examples? I can't think of any games before GE where enemies often deliberately missed their first shot like they do in pretty much all modern FPS games.
>You still have outdated environments and level design that is essentially a series of tubes
Outdated how? How is a mission like Frigate outdated? You're given an entire ship where you can open every door and go wherever you want. Later games like Rainbow 6 did something similar, but GE's level design is extremely focused on being architecturally sound. Design the level first, and then place objectives in it.
>Most people I knew that had PCs when Goldeneye came out didn't even care it existed.
Meanwhile game developers were obsessed with it.

[Anonymous No.4315164]

>>4315143
>It's so far behind Half life and Tomb Raider.
Half-Life is a huge step back from GE, though. Level design is corridors full of fake doors. The player has no real freedom. Enemies are twitchy bullet sponges with unsatisfying hit reactions. The game looks and plays like a Quake II mod. Stuff like stealth is a crude, rudimentary version of what GE had done a year earlier.

[Anonymous No.4315167]

>>4315143
Forgot to add. The aiming in PC shooters doesn't suck balls like it does int Golden Eye.

Before someone tries to defend the shitty letting aiming let me shoot with you a question? The converts exists to use a n64 controller on a PC, you could for instance play Half-Life with it if you wanted. Why do you think no one on the planet does this? Because the n64 is a turd for playing FPS. In contrast there are plugins that let you emulate Golden Eye and aim with a mouse. This is a very popualr program, why? Because the mouse is better for FPS games.

This shows people's REAL feelings about playing FPS with a mouse vs a n64

[Anonymous No.4315174]

>>4315167
>The converts exists to use a n64 controller on a PC, you could for instance play Half-Life with it if you wanted. Why do you think no one on the planet does this?
Because N64 controllers are expensive and fragile. Also because a number of right handed people struggle to aim with their left hand for some reason. Half-Life for Dreamcast says Hi, BTW.

[Anonymous No.4315193]

>>4315160
>Perfect Dark fixed this by making enemies perform martial arts at close range.

And by the time Perfect Dark was out we had Unreal which had that too (but with way cooler animations). Actually fuck it. The fucking imps in doom did that! LOL

>Examples?
The point was missing was always a part of FPS. Hit scan weapons randomly hit or miss or the imp's fireball doesn't make contact. Golden eye making it so the first hit is always a miss is hardly matters, it's not a reason to care about the game if you have a PC around that year (especially since it looks stupid if you are in close range).

The point is if Golden Eye did one or two things that were neat the entire package of the game is a weak compared to the PC enviroment. That's why it's only a great game to console fags. The same console fags that loved the multiplayer because it was their first experience with the mode.

>Outdated how? How is a mission like Frigate outdated? You're given an entire ship where you can open every door and go wherever you want

You could do that in Wolfenstein 3d dude. Seriously what are you getting at here?

>GE's level design is extremely focused on being architecturally sound
Tresspasser. Half life.

[Anonymous No.4315198]

>>4315174
Yes and that's why we all prefer the Dreamcast Halflife to the PC version right? Or if you don't have a dream cast you get a converter and use that controller to play the game!

Point is that FPS with a controller sucks, escpially before superior analog sticks and dual sticks were made. While FPS with a mouse is awesome. Anyone who disagree's can play their half life with a dreamcast controller and try and explain why it's more fun.

[Anonymous No.4315473]

>>4315124
>It dipped fluidly.
My fucking sides.
>You didn't have a jittering hand model.
You make it seem like Quake 1 was a PS1 game, what are you talking about? It didn't even have fucking hand models other than if you used the axe.
>What on earth does that have to do with animation? GoldenEye used motion captured character animation. Turok had pioneered for a FPS genre a year earlier, but GE's was much more fluid and dynamic.
>what does the lack of animation have to do with animation
Hmm...
>Challenge doesn't automatically make games good. Combat for the sake of combat is boring.
You're right, plenty of games are challenging and also shit, but the point is that Quake is both good and challenging. Also, what are you saying here: "Combat for the sake of combat is boring". Again, what the fuck does this even mean? It's a shooter dude. You're making it sound like they added combat to Tetris just "to have it", that makes no fucking sense in the context of a game that is literally about shooting shit. What are you smoking?
>it was an overtly "gamey" game.
lol.

Look, Goldeneye isn't a bad game, and it certainly innovated certain things which are now commonplace in the genre, but to dismiss Quake as "running through a maze shooting enemies" is disingenuous. I highly doubt you have actually played Quake, at least to completion or on the highest difficulty, if this is what you think. What was your favorite and least favorite level, weapon, etc., and why? If you're going to shit on the game, I want to see that you actually know what you're talking about.

[Nami No.4315483]

>>4314659
Goldeneye was a huge draw back in the day. Perfect dark was the better game butgoldeneye was a draw. Its easy to hate on now because its easy to but in 1997 it was amazing. You could argue that le pc masterraces games were better and they probably were but for console babbies as literal babbies and kids it was amazing. It just was.

Also taker never drew a dime have sex

[Anonymous No.4315490]

>>4314384

because taken in a modern context it doesn't hold up as well as something like pic related

[Anonymous No.4315493]

>>4315483
>You could argue that le pc masterraces games were better and they probably were but for console babbies as literal babbies and kids it was amazing. It just was.

This is it. That's also why everyone praised the multiplayer.

However saying it was 'good for consoles' does not mean it's a good game, just that there were certain people that didn't have a PC and couldn't play better games. Same reason that even though Jazz Jack Rabbit might be one of the best PC platformers it's not that great because the consoles were loaded with better ones.

[Anonymous No.4315494]

>>4315174
Unless you are left handed or highly ambidextrous you aren't aiming for shit with your left hand. The N64 controller was actually good because almost every FPS on the console had customizable controls and let you move with the d-pad and aim with the analog stick. Dreamcast had the d-pad on the same side as the analog and only one stick, so it was probably one of the worst analog controllers ever made when it comes to shooters.

[Anonymous No.4315504]

People hate goldeneye? The graphics arent great but it has enough decent action.

[Anonymous No.4315506]

>>4315504
It's not hate. It's more like fanboys get hostile when they are told it doesn't belong in the realm of 'greatest fps games ever'

[Anonymous No.4315516]

Goldfinger 64 is the best game

[Anonymous No.4315518]

>>4315506
The thing is, people can't separate "influential" from "still good". For better or worse, there is no denying that Goldeneye had a huge impact on the genre, and introduced features like location-based damage, objectives that changed with difficulty, etc. However, it is outdone in every way by those which succeeded it, and in some ways by those which preceded it. When you look at it from a historic perspective, you have to acknowledge that it was an impressive and groundbreaking game for the era, but it just isn't really worth playing today. Perfect Dark alone outclasses it in every way, and you can at least play that on XBLA at 60fps with new graphics if you so choose.

[Anonymous No.4315526]

>>4315518
>it isn't worth playing nowadays
Goldeneye is still playable and can still be fun, just because PD improved on it's formula doesn't make it unplayable.

[Anonymous No.4315528]

>>4314384
People, Arnold.

[Anonymous No.4315536]

>>4315526
I never said it was unplayable. It is a technically sound game. But there's really no reason to play it when you have games like Perfect Dark and Timesplitters which do everything it did, but better, and with x10 more content. Hell, PD even includes some of the same multiplayer levels, and all of GE's weapons.

[Anonymous No.4315545]

>>4315536
Goldeneye has it's own missions, thematic and levels, besides it's cultural impact is enough to give it a shot.
I would believe you if Goldeneye was something like in SF2 where there's no point in playing WW when CE or HF exists.

[Anonymous No.4315548]

>>4315518
>When you look at it from a historic perspective, you have to acknowledge that it was an impressive and groundbreaking game for the era

It's the type of thing I think would deserve a footnote in a history book, that's not a hyperbole. There were experiments with variable damage in mods before Golden Eye. The only noteworthy thing is the variable objectives.

It had a huge following from console people who had never played an FPS before. Publications being what they are, they repeated the mantra that the game was something signficant to keep their readers happy. Now it's just sort of become something people believe with little justification.

I think if Golden Eye never existed nothing would change in the history of gaming and the game was a 5-6/10 when it came out and is now completely unplayable. As in I cannot physically play it because I'd be too bored to stay awake. You'd have to pay me to touch it lol.

Perfect Dark is at least enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.4315565]

I really liked Rare/Free Radical style FPS level design that wasn't an arbitrary maze like old-school FPS but not nearly as brain dead linear and scripted setpiece-reliant as modern FPS campaign level design. Sucks that it's basically gone now.

[Anonymous No.4315625]

>>4314935

>GE made Quake look extremely archaic. Terrible animation, terrible character models, and gameplay that was nothing more than shooting enemies as your ran through a maze.

Now now, don't get carried away defending Goldeneye. The character models were a retarded face shopped onto an awkwardly animated body with no aesthetic whatsoever, and while Quake had relatively simple gameplay mechanics of finding the keys and then going through the exit slipgate, atleast it played smoothly. Goldeneye's gunplay was clunky as fuck and you had to either let the ridiculously wide auto-aim do all the work for you or stop moving so you could manually aim at things.

[Anonymous No.4315632]

>>4315625

whether or not you agree with that sentiment its hard to argue that that wasn't the overwhelming consensus among gaming culture at the time. GE was lauded as a breath of fresh air in contrast to a genre many perceived to be a long line of doom clones

personally i think the classic key hunting/corridor crawling formula is way more fun than the kind of shit that GE and half-life ushered in

[Anonymous No.4315648]

>>4315632
>GE was lauded as a breath of fresh air in contrast to a genre many perceived to be a long line of doom clones

I have never heard of this sentiment.

Honestly I think GE is just another key hunt but with a much simplier maze. Sort of like Duke 3D but even more linear.

Almost all of the objectives are either
*find this item
*find this item and use a gadget on it
*find this item and shoot it
*get to the door at the end of the level

While there are occasion objectives with more than one solution (the tank on the air strip for instance is optional) or something off beat (protect the npc) these are rare.

A lot of the objectives arn't really interesting and just seem like an excuse to add another glorified keycard than try and tell a story.

[Anonymous No.4315653]

Just for the record I'm probably the biggest Nintendofag in the world and I always thought Goldeneye was mediocre. The N64 Pad just doesn't work for an FPS, and it was damn ugly, even by the era's standards. Like >>4314401 said, it's only praised because there was so little else on consoles to compare it to.

[Anonymous No.4315656]

>>4315632

If by gaming culture you mean kids with an N64.

Half-life was the game being lauded for its cinematic gameplay

[Anonymous No.4315665]

>>4315632
>its hard to argue that that wasn't the overwhelming consensus among gaming culture at the time. GE was lauded as a breath of fresh air

Oh my god the complete and utter delusion. The second, the millisecond, anyone with any fps experience found out you couldn't move and aim at the same time the consensus was "why can't this game do shit that games from years ago do?" That and, "Didn't Goldeneye come out like two years ago? Who wanted this?"

[Anonymous No.4315691]

>>4315656
>>4315665

just look at any gaming magazine or review site at the time of release. you might think its stupid but this was in fact the attitude at the time. so unless you're implying that every big game reviewer was in fact a kid with only an n64, your argument doesn't really hold any water

[Anonymous No.4315729]

its objectively bad. Even Dooms multiplayer is light years ahead of it.

[Anonymous No.4315732]

>>4315691
>game reviewers

LOL You actually think these guys are anything but clowns?

Game reviewers, when they are not being totally boughten out, just say whatever the public wants to here. So the n64 kiddies think Golden Eye is the best fps ever. And the magazines repeat exactly and place it their list of top ten games.

The fact that you think these bozos represent any sort of authority is absolute proof you're a certified retard.

[Anonymous No.4315779]

>>4314692
pretty much

[Anonymous No.4315802]

>>4314384
>What's with the hate on Goldeneye
they weren't there.

They were either not born yet or playing j-rpg crap and PC shit.

Goldeneye was a fps for people who never played fps. Amazing story for solo and amazing multiplay for coming home drunk from the pub and smoking a joint with friends. This only really happened before with snes mariokart.

>Anyone who's played Doom knows how shit it looked and how boring and repetitive it was

[Anonymous No.4315803]

>>4314384
Natalya levels

[Anonymous No.4315809]

>>4315802

I was there. I enjoyed playing multi with my brothers but looking back on it, there was a lot wrong with the game. I'm still playing Quake multiplayer in 2017 but I'll probably never play Goldeneye again and haven't genuinely played it since maybe 1998.

[Anonymous No.4315814]

>>4314529
i agree with this

[Anonymous No.4315817]

>>4314384
My issue was with Jungle and how at n64s graphical quality and with a crummy CRT you couldn't see the fucking enemies in the fog until they were spewing AR bullets at you

[Anonymous No.4315820]

>>4314384
I still like to play it every now and then. It's a fun game, but I generally prefer Doom, Turok 2 and Perfect Dark

[Anonymous No.4315835]

>>4315802
>amazing multiplay

To someone that has never played a PC fps yes, split screen where everyone has an ant-sized view, no more than 4 players, no bots, terrible aiming and weak movement in tiny little grey rooms with very limited customization options IS amazing.

To someone who has played any PC vs game though it's nearly unplayable. It's the some reason why people who never played on a PC thought Mario 64 was amazing because it was the first time they ever saw a polygon.

[Anonymous No.4315847]

>>4315732

http://www.metacritic.com/game/nintendo-64/goldeneye-007

critic vs. user reviews speaks for itself

but keep up with the historical revisionism you imbecile

[Anonymous No.4315852]

>>4315835

>implying PC had anything even close to what Mario 64 accomplished with 3D

you sure are stupid

[Anonymous No.4315869]

>>4315835

> It's the some reason why people who never played on a PC thought Mario 64 was amazing because it was the first time they ever saw a polygon.

I was with you until this

[Anonymous No.4315896]

>>4315847
If you can't produce actual reasons why the game was good compared to what else existed at the time you're full of shit. Like anyone gives a shit if corrupt game reviewers and rapid fanboys clicked '100' on a reviewing website.
>>4315852
>>4315869
Probably should have clarrifie I meant 'graphically amazing'. I didn't intend to say the mechanics were not new.

I'm talking about the people that say 'we went from Super Mario world to Mario 64 and everyone was wow'ed by the 3D' while anyone who played on the PC was used to polygons.

[Anonymous No.4315939]

>>4315896

>corrupt game reviewers
>rapid fanboys
>clicked '100'
>clarrifie

[Anonymous No.4315964]

>>4314401
What I loved about the game was that you could shoot people in the dick or foot and get unique reactions from it. To this day there's too many games that don't have that.

[Anonymous No.4315984]

>>4315625
>Goldeneye's gunplay was clunky as fuck and you had to either let the ridiculously wide auto-aim do all the work for you or stop moving so you could manually aim at things.
Or, or... You aimed with the analogue stick like a normal people. Quake was on the N64, in case you're forgetting. It had the exact same controls.

[Anonymous No.4315989]

>>4315984
Nobody who has ever mentioned Quake has been talking about the N64 version.

[Anonymous No.4315990]

>>4315665
>The second, the millisecond, anyone with any fps experience found out you couldn't move and aim at the same
You can move and aim at the same time in GoldenEye. Like, let's not forget that Nightfire by Eurocom pretty much has the EXACT SAME CONTROLS as GoldenEye. All they did was add strafing when fine aiming. Fine aiming is optional. Nightfire was a fucking twin analogue FPS game.

[Anonymous No.4315993]

>>4315803
Rareware pioneered AI companions in FPS games. Think about Natalya next time you're playing Call of Duty and there's a companion character who talks to you, hacks doors, and shoots dudes.

[Anonymous No.4316002]

>>4315989
Quake N64 has the exact same gameplay as the PC version. That's why its stupid as fuck to claim people were impressed by GE because they were somehow completely unaware of the existence of Quake N64, which is the same fucking game as Quake PC no matter how much PC elitists pretend otherwise.

[Anonymous No.4316006]

>>4316002
I second this. Quake 64 was awesome, and the controls were smooth as fuck. The only difference between Quake 64 and the PC version was that Q64 lacked a few levels, but IMO it was an overall smoother package thanks to slightly altered level design and the addition of colored lighting. I honestly prefer it to the PC original in many ways.

More to the point though, the kind of people who were impressed by Goldeneye had never played a fucking shooter before. It was a decent game, but it wasn't revolutionary like everyone makes it out to be. I was playing shit like DOOM, Quake, Marathon etc. long before GE was a fart in the wind, and then it just ended up getting cuckolded by PD a few years later anyway.

[Anonymous No.4316008]

>>4316002

>exact same gameplay

Except that the control method dramatically changes how the game plays.

[Anonymous No.4316010]

>>4316008
>Except that the control method dramatically changes how the game plays.
Not him but I wouldn't say "dramatically". I mean, a mouse affords you more precision... but that's pretty much it. The N64 version is a lot harder due to the constraints of using a controller but aside from that, it's not really all that different. It doesn't dramatically change the gameplay. It's still the same fucking shit, kb+m just let's you do it faster and easier.

[Anonymous No.4316017]

>>4316010

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpiNDxssUL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TLJmmiUKFM

Nothing in these videos are replicable on the N64. Saying it's the same game just because it technically has the same data is like saying a bowl of flour, sugar, raw eggs and milk is a cake.

[Anonymous No.4316018]

>>4316017
>you can speedrun faster on PC than N64, therefore the gameplay is "dramatically different"
Lol dude, come on now.

[Anonymous No.4316020]

>>4316018

You can play the game fluidly on PC is the point. That's what makes Quake fun. Not the fact that it's Quake, but because it plays so well. If you have your hands and feet tied together, it's not the same gameplay experience.

[Anonymous No.4316026]

>>4316017
You can play GoldenEye with a mouse and keyboard, though. The argument is kinda dumb. Quake can be played with a controller. GE can be played with a M+KB. The fundamental design of the games doesn't really change. The ARMA series has decoupled GE-style aiming and nobody says, "IF THIS WERE ON PC IT WOULDN'T BE DESIGNED LIKE THIS, GUISE!"

[Anonymous No.4316027]

>>4316020
I'm not denying that the PC version is superior from a control standpoint, but to say that the gameplay is some dramatically different is just wrong. Yes, a top tier player might have a somewhat different experience blasting their way through the game than someone who plays on console, but the heart of the game remains the same. You must understand that 99% of people who play the game aren't going to be playing like one of the people in the videos you linked, right? You're still exploring (mostly) the same levels, using the same weapons, fighting the same monsters, etc. I have played Quake for a long time, everything from GLQuake and WinQuake to Quake 64 and Saturn Quake, and the only legitimately shitty or drastically different experience I've had is playing the botched Saturn port. The N64 port, for all intents and purposes, is a competent port of the game that demonstrates the game's strengths very well. What you're asserting is that the core gameplay of Quake is somehow different based on the very small percentage of PC users who play it in a unique way.

[Anonymous No.4316031]

>>4316026
Quake cannot be done at a very compotent level with a controller. And GE/PD with a controller feels like fucking cheating.

[Anonymous No.4316032]

>>4316027
The experience might be similar if your experience of Quake was slowly walking around the map and struggling awkwardly to aim at things, taking 5 seconds to jump from one platform to another, and not playing multiplayer. This isn't what people who praise Quake are recalling fondly.
It's like the difference between playing Guitar Hero 2 with the guitar controller vs a PS2 controller. "It's the same game" except that everything that makes it fun to play is missing.

[Anonymous No.4316037]

>>4316032
>The experience might be similar if your experience of Quake was slowly walking around the map and struggling awkwardly to aim at things, taking 5 seconds to jump from one platform to another, and not playing multiplayer.
I can only take this to mean that your experience playing Quake 64 was "struggling awkwarding to aim at things, taking 5 seconds to jump from one platform to another", because this was polar opposite to my own experience with this version. It wasn't as precise as the PC version, no, but this is a huge exaggeration. The game controls better on N64 than the majority of console shooters I've played.
>It's like the difference between playing Guitar Hero 2 with the guitar controller vs a PS2 controller. "It's the same game" except that everything that makes it fun to play is missing.
This is a poor analogy and thus far you haven't really addressed anything I've said. Look, I get it, you prefer playing Quake on PC, and that's fine. Most people do. But you're writing off a perfectly good port of the game on the basis that it's somehow "not really Quake" just because it has an inferior input method.

[Anonymous No.4316048]

>>4316037

>this was polar opposite to my own experience with this version.

See the speedrun above for PC quake? This is what a "speed" run looks like on the N64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uqorgKqBJU
That's as exciting as the game gets. I'm not making a point about speedrunning specifically but when I play Quake, I'm running, I'm strafe jumping, and when I can, I'm doing grenade or rocket jumps. When it comes to multiplayer, it might as well not exist on the N64. My experience in Quake multiplayer is a lot like that second video. It's the main reason people like the Quake series to begin with and it's not even close to possible with an N64 controller.

>This is a poor analogy

Bullshit. It's the exact thing you're trying to argue. "It's the same game because it has all the same songs and notes and everything" and ignoring how much of a difference the control method makes on how the game plays and your enjoyment of it.

>you're writing off a perfectly good port of the game on the basis that it's somehow "not really Quake" just because it has an inferior input method.

You have the idea that Quake is fun because "it's Quake" and that being Quake is what makes it fun. No, it's fun because the gameplay makes it fun. When you can't play the game properly to enjoy that gameplay, it's no longer a fun game.

You have nostalgia for the Quake port you played as a kid. I have nostalgia for the C&C port I played on N64 but I'll still admit it was shit compared to the PC version.

[Anonymous No.4316061]

>>4316048
>That's as exciting as the game gets.
I'm not going to argue about Quake multiplayer because, as you said, it might as well not exist on the N64, and I agree with that point. I will however argue in favor of the singleplayer, and what you're doing right now is distilling an entire experience filled with minutae and variety into a very simple definition, which is: "the game is not Quake unless I can speed run it on a PC", which is an experience that, as previously stated 99% of people will not have, and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the game is practically identical to its PC counterpart from a gameplay perspective.
>Bullshit. It's the exact thing you're trying to argue. "It's the same game because it has all the same songs and notes and everything" and ignoring how much of a difference the control method makes on how the game plays and your enjoyment of it.
You're comparing the console port of a popular 90s shooter, which is functionally identical to the PC version in almost every way, to a fucking music game. This is a poor analogy my dude.
>You have the idea that Quake is fun because "it's Quake" and that being Quake is what makes it fun.
I guess we have different ideas of what makes Quake, Quake. For you, Quake is speedrunning Slipgate Complex as fast as possible. For me, it's actually enjoying the game, soaking in the atmosphere, and exploring the labyrinthine levels. Both versions offer this.
>You have nostalgia for the Quake port you played as a kid. I have nostalgia for the C&C port I played on N64 but I'll still admit it was shit compared to the PC version.
Lmao, the ironic part is that I actually didn't play the N64 version until last year, whereas I've been playing WinQuake since 2002. While I will happilly admit that the PC version remains the king, I enjoyed the N64 version for the graphic and design differences it had, and I recognize it as a competent port of a game I already love. I'm sorry you can't do the same.

[Anonymous No.4316113]

>>4314384
I don't hate it, I just don't care...I've never played it and never intend to because I know its flaws and I won't play Perfect Dark for the same reason...I do love the PD 360 remaster, though.

Also I really don't like James Bond anyway.

[Anonymous No.4316118]

>>4316113
>I don't hate it, I just don't care...I've never played it and never intend to because I know its flaws and I won't play Perfect Dark for the same reason
I'm not shitting on you, I'm just genuinely curious: what do you think these "flaws" are and why do you consider them to be so bad that you shouldn't play the games? GE is one thing, but PD is fucking awesome. What exactly do you think you're not missing?

[Anonymous No.4316135]

>>4316031
>Quake cannot be done at a very compotent level with a controller. And GE/PD with a controller feels like fucking cheating.
One could argue that playing Quake with a mouse is cheating because mouse aiming in FPS games wouldn't become the norm for a few more years yet. A lot of people played keyboard-only, and FPS games were designed to cater to that.

[Anonymous No.4316142]

GoldenEye's problem is that its an unrefined game. Extremely experimental games tend to have rough edges. Perfect Dark is better in pretty much every way. But like a rock band's first album, there's a bold quality about GoldenEye that makes it appealing to go back to. It's unbelievable how good the guns feel to use.

[Anonymous No.4316154]

>>4316135
You could build a case that using a high prescion mouse, rather than a trackball is cheating. It wouldn't be much of an upgrade because everyone also had lower resolution screens so prescion mattered less. But by the time Quake was out having a mouse was standard for a PC.

However Perfect Dark or Golden Eye with a mouse is not just an upgrade in prescion. It lets aim presciously WHILE MOVING which is not possible on n64. You can get hit-shots on enemies faster than the auto-aim would let you get a body shot. You can basically have perfect accuracy at a range where the enemy ai won't even land it's own shots. You can be the Dark Sim in a quick draw, an AI which is supposed to have 100% accuracy and the fastest reaction time in the game!!!!

It cheeses the game so much. GE and PD gave you slow-inaccurate bafoons to fight against because it was made for an n64 controller. The combat is not very satisfying compared to the PC shooters which had more aggressive enemies.

[Anonymous No.4316675]

>>4316061

>This is a poor analogy my dude.
You're making a point that having an inferior control method doesn't change the game at all, that it's still identical. In the case of the guitar hero example, it is literally the exact same game but with a different controller plugged in. You would agree it dramatically changes the gameplay experience, even though everything else is identical. It's exactly what you're saying in regards to the two versions of Quake. It couldn't be a more perfect analogy, but when I use a non-quake example you can immediately see how what you've been saying is wrong.
> Quake. For you, Quake is speedrunning Slipgate Complex as fast as possible
I only used a speedrun video to show the difference in how well the game plays. Part of the enjoyment I find in Quake is being able to move fluidly and have basic aiming controls, so that I'm able to do more than just walk around a level. Using guitar hero as an example again, this "99% of people play it this way" point that I don't believe in the first place is like arguing "most people who pick up guitar hero only play it on Easy or Medium anyway, so who cares if Hard or Expert isn't possible?" That higher level of gameplay is the main appeal to those who regularly play the game.

[Anonymous No.4316695]

>>4314572
>No dark forces
Get out faggot

[Anonymous No.4316718]

>>4314384
Perfect Dark was a million times better. It's not nostalgia because they were from the same time. Goldeneye made a huge wave only because it came first and everybody had their good times on it, while Perfect Dark came later and lacked a licensed property for normie appeal.
t. PS1 baby who gushed over Perfect Dark until I got it for 360 many years later

[Anonymous No.4316972]

>>4316718
I feel like PD partially didn't get the recognition it deserved because it was an M rated game, and the n64 player base was too young to get a chance to play it.

It was also a lot harder than GE too. Most of the missions I could complete 00 Agent as a kid, but I barely completed any Perfect Agent missions in PD.

[Anonymous No.4317287]

>>4316675
>You're making a point that having an inferior control method doesn't change the game at all, that it's still identical.
No I'm not. Control method can make a difference, and I never said that the experience is identical. What I am saying, is that the experience using a kb+m versus N64 controller is not so wildly altered as to makes the versions "dramatically" different, and that the core gameplay is not what you're saying that it is.
> In the case of the guitar hero example
I repeat, this is a poor analogy. Guitar Hero is literally based around the concept of using a faux guitar to play the game... playing the game with a controller doesn't really alter the actual gameplay that much -- hell, it probably even makes it easier. But you aren't sitting there thinking "woo I'm playing a plastic guitar". That is completely different from this scenario, which has nothing to do with "fun factor" and everything to do with performance. kb+m might offer better performance, but that's it. It isn't called "Mouse Quake". Just because the game was built to use a mouse doesn't mean that the core gameplay somehow changes just because you use a controller. You could even take it the other way -- does the core gameplay of a console shooter like Halo suddenly "dramatically" change if you play it on PC with a mouse? No, you can aim faster, and the game as a whole might be more smooth, but that's it. It's still Halo. Just like Quake is still Quake.
>I only used a speedrun video to show the difference
Again, not a good analogy. This would work if the N64 version was somehow dumbed-down to fit the controller format, but it isn't. It's offers the same level of difficulty as the PC version. The core experience remains the same. Saying that the ability to basically break the game on PC and play it in a way it wasn't even intended to be played is akin to playing it the "real" way is just stupid.

[Anonymous No.4317292]

>>4314384
Contrarianism hit /vr/ hard and never left.
You really see if if you were one of the first lurkers when /vr/ just opened. It was a much comfier board back then.
I still remember my Psygnosis box art thread that hit bump limit. Comfy as fuck.

[Anonymous No.4317324]

>>4316718
>lacked a licensed property for normie appeal.
And thank god for that. Fuck using licensed characters when you can make a cool original game world.

Yeah, PD absolutely shat on GE in every way. About the only arguments I ever see in GE's favor boil down to "b-but muh singleplayer missions" (which weren't even better than PD's) and "it had faster gameplay" (which really means, it didn't have reloading animations because they were too lazy to model them, so the guns reloaded faster). PD is the objectively superior game in every other way.

[Anonymous No.4317396]

>>4317324
>PD is the objectively superior game in every other way.

Yep. Let's look at some of the BIG parts of a game, not minor stuff like reloading animations.


*Story: The movie script of GE does not translate well into a game. The first mission in PD is a far more exciting prospect and is

*Environments: Would anyone deny that Perfect Dark's locations are better than the grey tubes of golden eye? Chicago is my pick for it's best location

*Weapons: GE's arsenal consists almost entirly of hit scan weapons of various fire rates, bullet damage, and magazine size. It doesn't have any cool mechanics like the mauler charge, the laptop turret, fly by wire rocket, or the pinball grenade. No secondary fires either!

*Missions: The objective based stuff in Perfect Dark are done much better with a lower % of ones that are *find the widget and use a gadget*. They also feel more real and alive. The hacker you escort to download the data files will try to wipe the computer if you leave him alone.

*Multiplayer: GE has no bots, inferior weapons, and far fewer options in every category from choosing what weapons are in it, to different modes.


*Bonus stuff: GE has no challenge missions for it's VS mode, no 2 player mode for missions (PD has a VS and a co-op mode for them!)

[Anonymous No.4317413]

>>4314390
I will never unsee it, never.

[Anonymous No.4317419]

>>4314384
You're either a half-life guy or a goldeneye guy. At least that's been my experience.

[Anonymous No.4317996]

>>4317287

> Control method can make a difference, and I never said that the experience is identical. What I am saying, is that the experience using a kb+m versus N64 controller is not so wildly altered as to makes the versions "dramatically" different
You've seen video evidence of the wild difference between the two and brushed it off as "just speedruns" and "just ignore multiplayer altogether" and yet still insist that it's not that different because you think the core gameplay that Quake is renowned for is the basic ability to walk and shoot your weapons to some capacity.
>poor analogy
It is the perfect analogy. You can play guitar hero with a PS2 controller. My friend's cousin didn't have a GH controller so that's how he played it the majority of the time. The "core gameplay" of hitting the notes is identical. The only thing different is the controller. The GH controller is obviously more fluid and precise. The game doesn't change in any way if you play it with a GH2 controller. It's just way clunkier and there's less you can do with it. This control difference ends up changing the game experience.

[Anonymous No.4317998]

>>4317287
>>4317996

>You could even take it the other way -- does the core gameplay of a console shooter like Halo suddenly "dramatically" change if you play it on PC with a mouse? No, you can aim faster, and the game as a whole might be more smooth, but that's it. It's still Halo. Just like Quake is still Quake.
It doesn't work the other way. Halo doesn't get any faster when you improve the controls since all of the design choices were made to work on a console. Anything you can do with 2 fingers, you can do with 5 fingers. Not everything you can do with 5 fingers can you do with 2 fingers.
>his would work if the N64 version was somehow dumbed-down to fit the controller format, but it isn't. It's offers the same level of difficulty as the PC version. The core experience remains the same.
That may be the problem with the N64 version. It wasn't altered or rebuilt to work with the N64 controller. They took a PC game and gimped it with a control scheme that hardly works for it.
>Saying that the ability to basically break the game on PC and play it in a way it wasn't even intended to be played is akin to playing it the "real" way is just stupid.
I don't know what you mean by not intended to be played that way. You mean strafe jumping and rocket jumping as a glitch/exploit? Whether it was intentional or not, it's still part of the game and affects the gameplay. I'm sure the developers of Superman 64 intended for their game to be good.

[Anonymous No.4318049]

>>4314384
Controlling a FPS on a controller is a nightmare, this is amplified by the single joystick design of the N64 controller.

[Anonymous No.4318117]

>>4317419
Why not both? Half-Life for a solid single player experience. Goldeneye for hours ad hours of split screen 4 player enjoyment. Proximity mines on complex all day baby!

[Anonymous No.4318146]

>>4314529
>>4314526
this
id give anything for a pc remake of it with m/kb controls

[Anonymous No.4318170]

>>4314390
Saw that by myself when I was a kid. I show it to my brother and he couldn’t unsee it after. I made the meme real before it was even invented.

[Anonymous No.4318264]

Medal of Honor was a better game.
And it aged better too.

[Anonymous No.4318274]

>>4318117
>split screen 4 player enjoyment
Contradiction in terms. Would rather have 16 player team fortress in Quake or at least deathmatch.

[Anonymous No.4318359]

>>4318264
Yup.

[Anonymous No.4319612]

>>4314384
It's a reddit meme. They're contrarian neckbeards for the sake of it.

[Anonymous No.4319734]

Goldeneye did some interesting things but I think other first person games at the time like Daggerfall, System Shock, Duke Nukem 3D, Quake, and Half-Life were more interesting and have also aged better imo

[Anonymous No.4319756]

>>4315817
>mistake a turret for a random piece of level geometry
>last thing you hear is that horrifying sound mixture of the turret shooting + james gasping

[Anonymous No.4319764]

>>4316718
>>4317324
I think Goldeneye had the better OST still. Not that PD's ost is bad, it's also great, but some tracks like Cradle, Frigate and Facility still stand out in my head like 20 years later. maybe it's a bit of nostalgia too though to be onest.

[Anonymous No.4319795]

I always thought this had the better campaign, I played it all on my older brothers original xbox. i try to get all my friends at school to play but they say it's to old for them.

[Anonymous No.4319807]

>>4314384
Sony Nerds
Its funny how people never give playstation a hard time
They're jealous cucks

[Anonymous No.4319836]

>>4319764
PD has a more atmospheric soundtrack in comparison to the more upbeat, "heroic" music of Goldeneye, it's a matter of what do you prefer.

[Anonymous No.4319947]

>>4316118
I've got PD Remaster on 360, there's no reason to play the inferior N64 version...why would I suffer through the low framerate and cumbersome controls when I don't have to?

[Anonymous No.4320000]

>>4319764
GE definitely had a great soundtrack but it can't carry the rest of the game

[Anonymous No.4320038]

>>4319807
>anybody who doesn't like thing I like must be a 'jealous' sonyfag