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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 33 KB, 512x446, boss_motherbrain2.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4306701 No.4306701 [Reply] [Original]

Post some moments in retro games where story and gameplay actually intertwine and work together to create a superior experience, instead of just sort of lamely coexisting like in most games.

Pic most assuredly related.

>> No.4306851
File: 14 KB, 304x224, 1449337550823.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4306851

>> No.4306856

>>4306701
Donkey Kong Country 2 with the parrot race.

>> No.4306902

>>4306851
Whats this from?

>> No.4306905

>>4306902
metal slug 3

>> No.4306957
File: 33 KB, 800x559, mgs_542.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4306957

>> No.4308818

Mostly everything in Ultima 4.

>> No.4308854
File: 48 KB, 350x313, 75-FFV[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4308854

>>4306701

>> No.4310342

>>4308854
Probably legitimately the first time I cried in a video game.

A little. I mean I'm not a faggot.

>> No.4311930

bump

>> No.4311974
File: 363 KB, 569x731, fuckin-bitch-mario.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4311974

>>4306701
>pic related
Naw dawg.

Impossible to win first half, impossible to lose second half is bullshit, there's no gameplay there.

This is the last boss fight. It should be epic and a test of skill and all your items.

I'd have liked to see:
>superbomb to blow armor off her.
>Use missiles to shove her back into some terrain damage features like draygon's electrodes
>do that a couple times and it charges up her hyper beam then she wastes you with it.
>Metroid comes and hurts her/heals you
>She's back, you're back.
>You have hyper beam but it's not actually as OP, it still looks cool, but it's more like unlimited ammo missiles as far as knocking her back is concerned
>Do it again
>She hyper beams you again
>Crystal Flash if you want HP back, or superbomb again to blow more armor off her.
>This time your hyper beam cuts her head off and it falls on the ground.
>Hyper beam carves a hole in her head
>Super bomb in there

>Fuckin' bitch.

>> No.4311975

>>4306701
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noxyx2_Wew4

>> No.4312064
File: 12 KB, 223x200, IMG_6443.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4312064

>>4306701
This whole game imo

It was better before they added text to explain stuff

>> No.4312182

>>4306856
This. An underrated part of a true masterpiece.

>> No.4312189

>>4306701
Except the gameplay in that is utter shit and the only reedemable value with the final boss the cutscenes

>> No.4312203

>>4311974
The boss fight is not designed as a reflex test. That's not even what Super Metroid is as a whole. It's an experience, not a run n gun.. You're basically complaining the orange isn't an apple, there is no grand rule of the universe that a final boss is supposed to be a certain difficulty.

You've almost basically said "I can only understand games as reflex tests"

>> No.4312218

>>4312203
So "shoot diagonal to win" is the epitome of gaming for you as long as you have some cool cutscene? jeez

>> No.4312235
File: 177 KB, 894x894, izayoi_gatekeeper_dynamite_headdy_perler_japan_by_hdlj1991-dasp7o6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4312235

>> No.4312261

>>4310342
>first time I cried
>not a faggot

Yet you admit you've cried more than once at a video game, interesting.

>> No.4312268

>>4312203
You are like a baby.

Draygon is a harder fight.
The climax of the game is fucking nothing.
The only reason it's fun is because you expect it to be a hard fight. You barely have to do anything, poke her a bit until she hyper beams you, then the fight is over.

>> No.4312269

>>4310342
>>4312261
>Daring to show emotion makes you weak and gay

You edgelords need to chill.

>> No.4312275

Engaging gameplay awakens more emotions than tryhard plots and cutscenes, that's what games are about.

>> No.4312391

>>4312269
Are you upset because you're an emotional wreck who cries at video games or because you're an emotional wreck who gets upset at anonymous criticism?

>> No.4312402

>>4312275
Not really

>> No.4312406

>>4312391
When do you cry?

>> No.4312415

>>4311974
that doesn't sound very heroic

>> No.4312442

>>4312415
Neither does getting your ass kicked by a scripted event and getting bailed out by your mutated child.

>> No.4312525

>>4312402
Yes really, you can follow a narrative much better in many other mediums, rich gameplay that appeal to you is where video games should shine

>> No.4312532

>>4312203
>The boss fight is not designed as a reflex test. That's not even what Super Metroid is as a whole. It's an experience
Which is why so many fans of Metroid and Metroid II were so disappointed with Super when it came out. There was no challenge, it could be beaten over a weekend rental.

>> No.4312536

>>4312275
>>4312525
To me, all you need to arrive to this conclusion is to allow me to actually play through the events. In practical terms it might not matter whether the final battle of Super Metroid is just a big cinematic cutscene or not, since there's no way to lose the fight either way, but it's still a great deal more satisfying to get to shoot the fucking thing down myself.

In fact, if you -could- lose that fight, it'd just lead to a more unsatisfying narrative, since there's really no good reason why you should fail at that point and it'd just be a huge anticlimax.

You may disagree but I still think it's one of the greatest video game moments.

>> No.4313220
File: 31 KB, 489x361, terminal 7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4313220

>>4312064
The way she just yells "Help me!" and then suddenly starts transforming not a second later makes me shiver everytime.

>> No.4313225

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC9kinVC35k

>> No.4313378

https://youtu.be/zNitvUb48VU?t=11m52s

>> No.4315183

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbH-8QKZ1Vg

>> No.4315205

>>4312406
never. im not a poofta

>> No.4315284

>>4313225
Helps that the final boss is a total prick who laughs at you when you die

>> No.4315683

>>4306851
i JUST played through metal slug 3 today for the first time hot damn.shameless quarter-muncher but jam packed with personality

>> No.4315795

>>4313378
That game is kinda shit but the endings are 10/10

>> No.4315810

>>4315683
It's totally doable to 1cc, just a bit too long

>> No.4317513

>>4312203

This guy gets it! It's literally to show you that after all you have grown and gained, it can't save you in this situation. The thing that saves you in the end is the act of mercy you gave at the start. It's a good story.

You jackasses who say "it's not a hard boss fight! If you know what you are doing doesn't help you it isn't fun at all." No shit! It's never going to have the same impact the second time around- it's like if you watched citizen kane and could not shut the fuck up about how it was a sled the whole time and how it's bullshit.

>> No.4317539

>>4317513
Personally, I find a good story to have more replay value than a good challenge. Once you've beaten the game and seen all the secrets, there's really not much else there for you - you're just going through the motions when you play it again - but you can always enjoy a good story when you go back to it.

>> No.4317579

>>4317513
>No shit! It's never going to have the same impact the second time around
Even the first time it was nothing special, if you are easily impressed with cutscenes good for you but dont expect me to be hype about style over substance shit.

>>4317539
A good story can be experienced better in many other mediums, the same can't be said about good gameplay. Good gameplay and challenge will always keep you on your toes even if you have played it before, if the gameplay is slow and dull there is little reason to experience it again

>> No.4317603

>>4317579
>A good story can be experienced better in many other mediums
I disagree. Video games have immense potential for storytelling that books or movies don't, simply by adding the interactive element. It's not necessarily very common, but when properly combined with great gameplay a story can soar to levels unimaginable in other mediums.

There's a reason I tend to find horror games infinitely spookier than books or movies ever could, for instance. I can't just wait for the protagonist to open the door and face the monster: I -am- the protagonist, I'm immersed into the game, and I need to decide to open the door myself. It's way worse in the good way.

Likewise, Super Metroid's ending may not be a great example of challenging gameplay, but just getting to be there, experience it myself, and beat the shit out of the Mother Brain on my own, rather than watch it happen on screen with no interaction on my part whatsoever, in my mind lifts the scene over all but the greatest equivalents in books and movies.

I appreciate challenging gameplay just as much as you, but you shouldn't limit games to being simply that: there's way more they can offer.

>> No.4317609

>>4317603
Your problem is that you value video games for what they aren't.

>> No.4317615

>>4312203
Yeah but it ain't a mix of story and gameplay in perfect harmony. it's basically story without gameplay.

>> No.4317618

>>4315205
What a loser.

>> No.4317621

>>4317609
So long as there's an actual gameplay element, instead of just a cutscene or a text wall, it's a video game. And Super Metroid had almost none of either.

>> No.4317635

>>4317621
Yet your favorite part was the one that had little to no gameplay at all, giving me the impression that you don't really play games for gameplay.

>> No.4317636
File: 16 KB, 640x400, wing-commander-amiga-screenshot-hero-s-funeral.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4317636

>>4306701
The branching paths and wingman deaths in the first Wing Commander.

>> No.4317653

>>4317635
Then you're reading between the lines far too much. I like a game that's a challenge, it's just that Super Metroid isn't one of those games: even outside story moments where defeat is literally impossible, it's pretty much a breeze. It's far stronger on the side of the atmosphere, with its bleak dark ruins, foreboding soundtrack, and evocative storytelling that doesn't explain everything out with words.

Apart from the ending, which has been brought up and which indeed gets to me in two kinds of feels, memorable moments include the backtracking of the original Mother Brain's empty ruined halls at the beginning, the first encounter with giant Kraid, and the lava monster spook. It's got some good stuff in that regard.

Gameplay is about far more than challenge, and little gameplay still makes for a far greater impression than none at all. Just compare Super Metroid's final battle to the same scene being played out as a cutscene in Other M, and you see what I mean.

>> No.4317663

>>4317653
But why not both though, Star Fox 64 had both fun gameplay and neat style/storytelling that never interrupted the gameplay, the stylization should follow the gameplay and not the opposite.

>> No.4317670

>>4317663
I think there's plenty of room, plenty of different sorts of games, to do it both ways and be satisfying either way. You mention Star Fox as one example, but I don't know whether you could do that with the sort of atmospheric horror Super Metroid does: pulse-rising gameplay would get in the way. Likewise, the final battle as it's written would be rather unsatisfying if you could still lose it. But at the opposite end, saving the princess feels a lot more satisfying if you had to fight through hell to get her.

Some games use story to improve context of the gameplay and give all this challenge a reason and something to push towards, and that's fine. Others take a dash of gameplay to make the creepy scenes creepier and the badass vengeance to be actually felt, and that's also good. I love both, and you should too.

>> No.4317676

>>4317670
>but I don't know whether you could do that with the sort of atmospheric
True last boss fight and the escape next to it are at least as "atmospheric" as mother brain, and the best part: they actually have gameplay.

>> No.4317692

>>4317676
Yeah, but there's not much story to it. You beat the boss, now GTFO - we already saw it in the original Metroid anyway.

Besides, you keep using the word "gameplay" when you mean "challenge". All you need for gameplay is that you can move around and shoot the big brain monster yourself. Challenge comes in if you can lose.

>> No.4317716

>>4317692
The difference is SF64 actually has gameplay, you can die there as the game requires some effort. Mother brain meanwhile you can shoot diagonally with your eyes closed like a retard and still win, that shit ain't gameplay, just an interactive cutscene.

You keep talking about Super Metroid like some horror story shit, but you know what would be a good start for that? being able to fucking die instead of being an walking tank the whole game beating weak shit and wandering empty rooms, 0 tension.

>> No.4317743

>>4317716
Even something like Monkey Island has a few moments of tension, though you can't die at all in that game. There are other ways to build it up than exciting and challenging gameplay, and Super Metroid manages it too - all you need to do is to immerse yourself and let the story grab you. It makes it better.

Or just stick to your reaction tests, what do I care.

>> No.4317753

>>4317743
are you disabled or something so you hate gameplay that requires reaction time?

If you suck too much to beat a boss maybe you should be satisfied at that. or git gud

>> No.4317772

>>4306851
God I miss you IREM.

>> No.4317862

>>4311974
That sounds way too complicated.

Metroid Prime is a pretty good example of a final boss done right. It makes use of all your items (every beam type during the first phase, every visor during the second phase, power bombs come in handy too) without being overly obtuse.

>> No.4317902

>>4317862
That was the worst fight. I can't believe you actually enjoyed it.

>> No.4318440

>>4317753
Do you have any actual examples worthy of this thread? Moments in games where story and gameplay meet in the middle and make both work better than they would on their own? Or are you just here to whine about how other people do their fun wrong?

>> No.4318453

>>4317753
>git gud
Go back to /v/, Dark Souls isn't retro.

>> No.4318465

this part in thunderforce IV when your buddies show up to help you and you get the thundersword at the end, so badass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDN0TSzqqIs

>> No.4318495

>>4306851
>>4306957
>>4312064

These are just cutscenes; isn't OP asking about storytelling embedded in actual gameplay?

>> No.4318496

>>4318495
They're no more cutscenes than what OP themselves presented.

>> No.4318530

>>4318496
Full disclosure: I haven't read most of the thread so I haven't really gauged the level of synergized autism/contrarianness ; but I'm assuming you mean that OP's isn't real gameplay since the battle is rigged. But you know that now; you didn't necessarily know it during, right? Are you saying the experience would be exactly the same as if that bit of storyline had been handled in a cutscene without your input?

>> No.4320087
File: 92 KB, 800x600, 4812558719_86b4ea9fa1_b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4320087

Another World / Out of this World does this multiple times during the game AND manages to tell the rest during cutscenes without using a single word.

>> No.4320159

>>4320087
There's words in the prologue and epilogue as well as alien language during the game, but I get what you're saying.

>> No.4321548

>>4317636

nice Amiga screen cap! Fuck VGA.

>> No.4322317

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FeO6V6O5M8