What's a game that /vr/ can collectively agree is actually a DIFFICULT game?

File: 45 KB, 329x357, IMG_0701.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sun Oct 1 21:24:44 2017 No.4298394 [Reply] [Original]

What's a game that /vr/ can collectively agree is actually a DIFFICULT game?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 21:27:44 2017 No.4298404 Atlantis no nazo

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 21:32:32 2017 No.4298417 Solomon's Key

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 21:35:00 2017 No.4298419 Adventures of Bayou Billy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:07:13 2017 No.4298491 Ghosts 'n Goblins. I don't think even the most hardcore contrarian shits would claim this series is easy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:10:28 2017 No.4298496 Fuckin' The Mysterious Murasame Castle my dude.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:24:47 2017 No.4298512 Sword of Kadash

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:25:19 2017 No.4298513 What exactly makes something considered difficult? I see posts all the time saying "it's not difficult all you have to do is memorize these patterns", but I feel like that is what makes it hard in the first place

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:27:46 2017 No.4298517 File: 58 KB, 736x562, ea877896beba555604295ab4291d4521--dwarf-fortress-meme.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Dwarf Fortress

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:30:06 2017 No.4298520 >>4298513 execution is the difficult part

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:30:48 2017 No.4298521 >>4298394 Impossible because there will always be that one guy who claims it's easy to feel good about themselves. Also all the games listed in this thread are a joke.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:33:15 2017 No.4298527 >>4298521 >there will always be that one guy >all the games listed in this thread are a joke. Great job asshole.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:33:45 2017 No.4298528 >>4298527 :3

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 1 22:36:22 2017 No.4298535 File: 69 KB, 430x429, IMG_0840.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4298517 is there a remake of that game which isnt ugly, i wanna try it

Anonymous Sun Oct 1 23:01:00 2017 No.4298587

Anything you have to put time into overcoming is difficult.

This includes just not knowing what to do and having to figure it out, which most veterans of whatever game we're talking about would probably disagree with.

Things like execution or adaptation on the fly (eg having to quickly react to rng events) is not the only sign of difficulty.

The trick is coming up with a level of difficulty that fits a general definition, because there's going to be that one retard who can't do what most people can. You can try to make a line a game has to cross before it can be considered difficult, such as "90% of people will give up on this challenge rather than put in the effort to overcome it". Problem with that is there's no statistics, so this is objectively subjective.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 06:37:17 2017 No.4299182 >>4298535 Just in case you are not joking, there are tilesets that do make it more visually appealing. Slightly.

>>	None !qm15X1E7RU Mon Oct 2 06:42:11 2017 No.4299191 >>4298394 Alex the Kidd

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 09:44:02 2017 No.4299390 >>4298587 >Anything you have to put time into overcoming is difficult. That's not true at all. Final Fantasy IV is an easy game. The fact that it takes a number of hours to overcome doesn't make it challenging, it just makes it time consuming.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 09:57:10 2017 No.4299413 File: 35 KB, 256x222, dsfsdf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4298491 The snes versions difficulty is okay. BATTLETOADS on the other hand is not easy nes and snes :]

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 09:59:44 2017 No.4299418 >>4298491 Nah it's easier than most classic games solely because you don't have to start the entire game from the beginning if you get hit three times.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 10:00:46 2017 No.4299423 >>4298535 Is there a way I can shove my dick in Haruhi's mouth IRL?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 10:03:22 2017 No.4299427 >>4299423 if you find a way please tell me also >>>/a/

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 10:05:02 2017 No.4299434 File: 62 KB, 300x830, Yuki_Nagato_2____by_Notaku_by_haruhi_madness.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4299423 >>4299427 Would rather fuck Nagato

babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY Mon Oct 2 10:17:47 2017 No.4299456

>>4298491
Agreed. I'm surprised nobody has jumped on the NES port's "glitchiness" making it harder than the arcade version

>>4299413
That's Super Ghouls n Ghosts

>>4299418
I suppose that technically any golden age arcade game with progressive difficulty and no crash screen "ending" could be considered maximum difficulty

Anonymous Mon Oct 2 10:21:47 2017 No.4299465

>>4299413
>>4299456
The Battletoads is hard meme needs to die, it's hard if you're under 12 but as you get older you realize that it's really easy aside from 3-4 bullshit unavoidable obstacles the first time through. 5/10 on the difficulty scale at best, it's no harder than a game like Crash Bandicoot or Spyro. Though I guess for Nintenyearolds a 5/10 is still way more than they'd be use to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 10:38:35 2017 No.4299501 >>4299465 I would say the main reason Crash and Spyro aren't considered harder is because they have unlimited continues. Nothing sends normies into a rage like a "Game Over" screen.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 10:54:28 2017 No.4299535 >>4299390 Length has nothing to do with difficulty. You're going on about semantics.

Anonymous Mon Oct 2 10:57:57 2017 No.4299548

>>4298394
Roguelikes in general are one of the most difficult genres because the player gas ro combine a large knowledge pool with a lot of strategic planning. And even then it's possible to find yourself in an unwinnable position.

For instance, you come across a long corridor and you are low on food. Do you follow it to the end and see if something is there, or leave it and continue towards the exit?

Going down that path could lead to something amazing or it could lead to nothing and contribute to you dying. Winning these games means not only knowing how everything works, but balancing odds and taking risks in a what few other kinds do.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 10:58:59 2017 No.4299551 >>4299535 It's his definition, not mine. We seem to agree it's bad though. Length indeed has no relation to difficulty.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 11:02:57 2017 No.4299556 >>4299551 He just didn't make himself entirely clear: I'm sure all three of us are in agreement on what difficulty means and how game length relates to it. There's little need at pedantry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 11:03:07 2017 No.4299560 >>4299465 Maybe it's easy for you because you've played it to death you piece of shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 11:14:36 2017 No.4299594 >>4299556 No he made a statement so unclear it was straight up wrong. Time investment is an extremely poor gauge fir difficulty.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 11:23:58 2017 No.4299621 >>4299390 Actually the jap version of ff4 is the hardest rpg youll ever play

Anonymous Mon Oct 2 11:24:40 2017 No.4299623

>>4299551
>>4299556
I could see "length as difficulty" if we were talking about some MMORPG-tier poopsocking. I don't think there's a lot of retro games that require that kind of investment though (and that's not even getting into whether or not it's good game design).

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 11:26:56 2017 No.4299629 Nethack

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 12:25:15 2017 No.4299759 >>4299621 Lollercopter

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 12:28:54 2017 No.4299764 >>4298394 silver surfer is difficult, but feels rewarding to progress though I haven't completely beaten any stage I'd still enjoy attempting it

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 12:39:59 2017 No.4299789 Ninja Gaiden series for NES should definitely be up there on any list of hard retro games.

Anonymous Mon Oct 2 12:51:54 2017 No.4299821
File: 2 KB, 280x192, wizardry1-comp1-apple.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Classic cRPGs. Why? Because I suck at them and that's the only standard that really matters in the end.
Different people find different things difficult, amazingly. Some people hype up the difficulty of old platformers, and I'm sure those games are kicking their ass. For me, platformers are much easier to overcome than most genres, enough times throwing yourself at the level and memorizing some patterns usually works. On the other hand, you can say that for shmups, which I suck at, so whatever. I'm not saying that there isn't some kind of consensus that can form for generally hard games, but it's not unusual to find someone struggling through something you can't comprehend someone would find difficult.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 13:15:16 2017 No.4299857 Holy Diver

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 13:39:45 2017 No.4299901 >>4298535 Use a tile set,unfortunately nobody can fix that shitty UI yet, the dev wants to focus more on features and bug fixes

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 14:16:45 2017 No.4299976 >>4298535 Ascii is beauty

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 15:44:21 2017 No.4300137 File: 170 KB, 800x600, ivanHolyscreen33.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Iter Vehemens ad Necem is both one of the hardest and one of the most delightful games ever made.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 15:48:26 2017 No.4300146 >>4298394 Super Mario 2 Lost Levels

Anonymous Mon Oct 2 18:01:31 2017 No.4300457

>>4298394
>DIFFICULT
Nothing. Never met a game that was so hard I had to write out difficult in underage case.

>>4298513
Whatever a cantgitgud says. Artificial difficulty, bad design, not hand holding, not catering to spastic ADHD kids etc. There's an endless list of excuses and when they run out they invent new terms to justify their sucktitude.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 18:05:57 2017 No.4300465 >>4300457 >underage case >a cantgitgud >suckitude I'm not agreeing or disagree with you, but you sound like a goddamn retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 18:18:22 2017 No.4300493 File: 250 KB, 1200x900, maglord.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Oct 2 19:27:43 2017 No.4300649

>>4299390

You're not overcoming anything by navigating menus. "Overcoming" is exclusive to game mechanics. So for a game like FF4 it would mean rationing items, getting good equipment in time, leveling well enough to beat the boss, all of which are done without overcoming anything. You'll always have enough potions, good enough charactes, etc.

If you honestly needed me to explicitly say that I'm talking about "any video game mechanics" when I say "anything" then this isn't board for you. Video game mechanics are the medium in the first place. You may as well have made a stupid "this movie is longer so it's harder" argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 19:51:23 2017 No.4300678 >>4298535 Dunno man you seem to be fine with ugliness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 20:06:39 2017 No.4300695 >>4300678 elaborate

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 20:11:32 2017 No.4300704 >>4298394 DoDonPachi DaiOuJou, OP. >>4298517 The UI is a pain to learn, but beyond that Dwarf Fortress is easy to the point where you almost have to deliberately endanger yourself to lose.

Anonymous Mon Oct 2 20:43:53 2017 No.4300754

>>4300457
well, yes. There's no game that can't get a no hit run by a dedicated player. There's more to the question than that.
Difficult is not, for example, blind hits or hidden secrets you'd have no way to know outside memorization. Nor is it simply twitch-speed reflexes. Difficulty is something where skill matters, where getting good requires learning strategies and tactics more than enemy placement (although that can also be a factor)
A fighting game with a robust enough AI to not just easily cheese would be an example of a truly difficult game. A run and gun shooter in the vein of Contra (but not Contra specifically, which is pretty easy) with both elements to memorize and strategies for dealing with the boss rush represents a difficult game.

Battletoads is one that is often called one, but specifically is not. There's little challenge aside from rote memorization.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 20:55:32 2017 No.4300776 >>4298394 Wizardry IV: The Return of Werdna

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 21:34:55 2017 No.4300872 >>4300649 The fact remains that you have to put time into overcoming FFIV, but it's not difficult. Your opening statement was stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 21:38:16 2017 No.4300883 >>4298394 King's Field.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 21:44:42 2017 No.4300897 >>4298394 Life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 2 23:15:17 2017 No.4301067 Takeshi's Challenge for the Famicom

Anonymous Mon Oct 2 23:40:54 2017 No.4301108

>>4300465
>my age triggers me
Good. Good. Let the butthurt flow through you.

>>4300754
There are no retro fighting games that have good AI. There are only retro fighting games that "cheat". The only difficulty with these is coming to understand that's whats happening and taking a different approach.
All the "hard" retro games are only called that by kids with ADHD, early onset alzheimer's and poor problem solving skills. I honestly can't think of a game that can't be easily beaten if you don't have any of those.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 00:00:46 2017 No.4301138 >>4301108 >I honestly can't think of a game that can't be easily beaten if you don't have any of those. >>4300137

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 00:15:19 2017 No.4301158 >>4298394 Zelda 2 SMB1 & SMB3 SMB Lost Levels Karnov(NES) Robocop(NES)

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 00:51:06 2017 No.4301228 >>4301158 >SMB1 >difficult lmao

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 00:59:37 2017 No.4301239 >>4301158 >Zelda 2 Easy >SMB1 & SMB3 Semi-easy and easy Mike Tyson's Punch-Out. Most of the game is easy but the last two fights are brutal.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 01:24:07 2017 No.4301256 Ninja Gaiden was a pain in the ass with flying enemies fucking your shit up by every bottomless pit. Bubble Bobble is also really hard, I have never beaten the game solo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:04:53 2017 No.4301330 Why do people say Battletoads on NES (NTSC) is hard? Only took me a few days with a few play throughs without warping, and it's not like I'm amazing at videogames.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:07:38 2017 No.4301334 >>4301256 I beat Bubble Bobble one player when I was in kindergarten

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:19:07 2017 No.4301345 >>4299456 Well in that case the nes version is not difficult, because its pure luck and near impossible to play. Battletoads on the otherhand isn'T impossible and luck based. its just fucking nuts hard

Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:23:06 2017 No.4301349

>>4299465
The difference is that crash and spyro are garbage games. And battle toads is much harder than crash bandicoot. BAndicoot is so fucking bad, psx fans are so ununderstanding of what good games are... psx fanboys ruined the games market, and are in the long run to blame for trash bombs like candy crush.
Okay listen kid, crash bandi coot:
1. Shitty jumping physics
2. shitty controls
3. awful hit detection
4. even more awful cheap design errors like enemies killing you after the main attack animation part
5. its on psx
6. no, you got no taste
7. go home

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:24:16 2017 No.4301353 >>4301330 Does that not count as hard? If an hour-long game takes me days to complete then I'd consider it to be difficult.

Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:31:15 2017 No.4301368

>>4301330
>>4301330
Well, you might be talking about the wrong version then or your nes runs in slomo. There is an 'easy' battle toads like battletoads doubldragon and battletoads arcade.

I played only the snes battletoads in battlemaniacs, and never got beyond the turbo tunnel. So many years later I played through it with emulator and save states, and fucking shit, even if I ever would have beat the turbo tunnel, everything after that is insane. Like the snakes, good luck of not running out of lives there. And then the weird unicycle race...

IF anyone says that stuff is easy, he played that shit in slowmotion or something. Still nothing in battletoads is badly designed except maybe the snake part as you have to guess some stuff or got insane controls and reflexes I guess.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:37:12 2017 No.4301378 File: 645 KB, 1537x2100, air fortress.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Air Fortress >I can make it, I know I can make it! >Oh god I hope I can make it! >uh oh >no nonono! >AAAUUUGHHH!!!!!

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:47:51 2017 No.4301389 >>4298394 Trojan for the NES. It was an arcade port. That game is brutal. I never knew anyone to have beaten that back in the 80s.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:53:33 2017 No.4301397 >>4298394 Brandish 2.

Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:57:32 2017 No.4301410

>>4298404
>>4298417
>>4298419
>>4298491
>>4298496
>>4298512
>>4298517
>>4299191
>>4299413
>>4299629
>>4299764
>>4299789
>>4299821
>>4299857
>>4300137
>>4300146
>>4300493
>>4300704
>>4300776
>>4300883
>>4301067
>>4301158
>>4301239
>>4301256
>>4301378
>>4301389
>>4301397
all easy

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 02:58:32 2017 No.4301414 >>4301410 Cute.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 03:01:20 2017 No.4301424 File: 29 KB, 300x300, Edgy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4301410

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 03:17:33 2017 No.4301448 Bezerk (1980) E.T The extra Terrestrial (1982)

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 04:26:59 2017 No.4301530 >>4301448 Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage.

Anonymous Tue Oct 3 04:35:37 2017 No.4301540

>>4301368
Dude, I own the US release of NES Battletoads and there's no slowdown and it's harder than most games but I don't really see why it's hailed as one of the hardest games, that's all. Though it's one of my favorite games due to not being easy at first and have varied and unique level design with good music and graphics.

>>4301353
It's relatively hard, I guess, but it really isn't too challenging.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 05:24:30 2017 No.4301597 >>4301138 My bad. For not redundantly pointing out that the game must be retro as per the rules of this board. For expecting better of neo /v/

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 10:48:39 2017 No.4301943 >>4301597 Read the rules friendo, IVAN is plenty fair fane for this board. Nethack, Tome or even Rogue would fit the bill for you as well though.

Anonymous Tue Oct 3 11:03:23 2017 No.4301972

>>4298394
The problem with this is that you're obviously going to get the typical contrarians pretending that dificult games are pissy easy just to inexplicably look like a tough guy on a taiwanese boat building forum.

Another main problem though is that there are lots of people here that are unable to tell the difference between a game that was designed to be easy and a game that's only 'easy' to them because they spent their entire childhood playing the thing religiously until they knew it inside and out. Basically, they're too stupid to differentiate the difficulty of a game from their own level of experience with the game. Probably the most obnoxious variant of this kind of poster are the guys who played Castlevania 2 as kids and either had a friend tell them how to get past the cryptic bullshit or just went out and bought a guide. They'll act like the game is babby tier and the "puzzles" (for lack of a better term) just required a little bittle of perseverence and brain power that a low IQ underage kiddy like you could never possibly be capable of.

Anonymous Tue Oct 3 11:13:13 2017 No.4301991

>>4301972
>Probably the most obnoxious variant of this kind of poster are the guys who played Castlevania 2 as kids and either had a friend tell them how to get past the cryptic bullshit

I'm the guy who usually mentions this when CV2 comes up and I never call it easy. Just say that I liked it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 19:53:45 2017 No.4303145 >>4300872 You don't overcome FF4, you navigate menus. Just because you think you found a contrarian gotcha doesn't mean it sticks. Time spent doing is not the same thing as time spent overcoming.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 19:54:58 2017 No.4303148 >>4303145 >He only played the shitty SNES version Play the DS version and your asshole will bleed

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 19:57:23 2017 No.4303152 >>4303148 No I haven't, but if what you say is true, I don't think the guy I'm talking to has either.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 20:59:54 2017 No.4303339 >>4301943 I did read the rules kiddo. Nethack, Tome or even Rogue would not fit the bill for me so I'm guessing your non-retro game wouldn't either.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 21:02:42 2017 No.4303350 >>4303339 Not him but win9x games are in the rules.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 21:20:25 2017 No.4303391 File: 4 KB, 92x212, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4298394

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 22:02:20 2017 No.4303476 >>4298517 not /vr/ and not difficult. Pain in the ass to learn, sure. But it's not difficult at all.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 22:34:11 2017 No.4303531 >>4303148 Grinding =/= difficulty

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 22:52:19 2017 No.4303556 File: 27 KB, 469x336, 1506870239233.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4301410

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 3 23:29:57 2017 No.4303616 >>4301228 Until you reach level 8 and then you're screwed. You practically need cheats or a saved state to finish it. >>4301239 When it comes to the very last levels, neither are easy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 00:11:40 2017 No.4303674 The first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for NES

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 00:19:45 2017 No.4303681

>>4303616
Level 8 on SMB so hard you need save states? You are not good at classic video games at all. Heck, there's a secret Super Player's Mode that you'll never unlock in there. Part of the unlock involves beating the game without a scratch or shortcuts. SMB3 is even easier, but nothing but time and patience will help anyone with Tyson in Punch Out.

Damn kids these days..

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 00:22:01 2017 No.4303684 >>4303616 Zelda 2 is not easy but Mario? The fuck? I beat that on the can.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 00:30:15 2017 No.4303694 >>4298394 Commander keen the end levels in the one where you can pick your stages. For rpgs id say phantasy star and ultima

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 00:30:40 2017 No.4303696 >>4301410 They're even easier for me. You've really made a fool of yourself today.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 01:02:25 2017 No.4303743 >>4303684 SMB1's last level is a bitch.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 01:04:57 2017 No.4303748 >>4303743 How? It's one of the easiest final levels in any game on the NES.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 04:07:30 2017 No.4304030 >>4299456 The NES port isn't glitchy, it's just poorly written. Big difference.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 07:01:55 2017 No.4304260 >>4303350 >win9x games lol. Your mean minesweeper, hearts and that shitty pinball game?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 08:11:47 2017 No.4304342 >>4304260 Are you honestly that stupid? This is an 18+ board.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 09:27:14 2017 No.4304458 Crusader Kings 2

babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY Wed Oct 4 10:05:55 2017 No.4304507

>>4301345
>>4304030
The NES port of Ghosts n Goblins is fine. In fact it was one of my favorite games when I was about 11. Maybe that explains something about my taste in games. There's really only one place with those two Red Arremers at the top of that ladder that's pure bullshit after your time is going to be pretty short from navigating there in the first place.

Games that can just be memorized are simply not as hard as games with crucial RNG. The point where any given player begins claiming "artificial difficulty" on these type of games is really just saying "this is too hard for me". I don't know why people can't just say that.

Like, with classic never ending arcade games. Back in the day, I used to enjoy gitting gud and setting high scores on local machines but now that I see the world record holders literally playing the same basic mechanics for HOURS I just would get bored I guess because I don't love getting into that kind of a "zone". That level of play is too hard for me.

I like for games to have a goal that can be completed, that you can say "I did it and I'm done" and feel satisfied with overcoming a real challenge. These days speedrunners even like to turn those type of games into a worldwide dick measuring contest but a game like Ghosts n Goblins resists even that because not only is it fundamentally balls hard enough to require serious skill just to tackle, no matter HOW good you are the amount of time it's going to take to beat it will always fall down to "luck".

To me, that makes it a good game. An anachronism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 10:30:50 2017 No.4304550 >>4304507 >no matter HOW good you are the amount of time it's going to take to beat it will always fall down to "luck". Not a lot of experience with it but why is it so for GnG different from other games that people speedrun?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 10:44:06 2017 No.4304565 >>4301410 Like your mom ;) No seriously, go back to your room, son.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 11:14:43 2017 No.4304604 >>4304565 >taking the bait this hard Please grow up /vr

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 12:03:34 2017 No.4304681 >>4304342 >Projecting: The Post Just because a game can run on Windows 9x doesn't make it retro champ.

Babbage's Gramps !RATGzMALLY Wed Oct 4 12:40:27 2017 No.4304746

>>4304550
There are a lot of enemies with fairly random behavior (and even spawns) that's also really aggressive so there are always times you just have to wait for an opportunity or die and even sometimes you just end up dead through no fault of your own. It's sometimes unwinnable (or perceived unwinnable) circumstances that I think trigger the "artificial difficulty" ree, especially with the continue option being secret.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 14:01:00 2017 No.4304886 >>4303350 Earliest public release I can find is from 2001, which isn't quite within the rules.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 14:10:06 2017 No.4304907 Games I can think of: >Lemmings >Super Star Wars >Legend of the Seven Paladins

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 14:11:05 2017 No.4304908 >>4298394 kaizo mario

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 14:30:12 2017 No.4304946 >>4303391 Not OP but what game?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 14:37:39 2017 No.4304959 >>4303696 Funniest response I have seen to one of those mass-replying cunts

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 14:39:06 2017 No.4304965 >>4301410 not an argument

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 14:45:57 2017 No.4304980 >>4299560 he's a playstation kid that never played battletoads he thinks Crash Bandicoot was hard

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 17:41:58 2017 No.4305250

>>4304886
Re-read the rules then if you still don't understand. Nothing here goes by the release date of the game itself, it goes by what system it runs on. That's why a genesis game released in 2017 is still 'retro' according to the board rules.

Any game that runs on Windows 95-98 is well within the rules of the board.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 18:04:18 2017 No.4305303 >>4303743 Again, I beat that while on the can. And I don't mean I have beaten it on the can, I mean I still do.

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 18:22:13 2017 No.4305339

>>4303145
There is a point there even if he doesn't fully grasp it, it would be possible for a game to be time consuming to master but have less depth of strategy. Like puzzle games can and often do get to absurd levels of difficulty that would take an incredible amount of practice to beat but I would consider it less of a challenge to perfect that kind of gameplay than master something with multiple layers and different kinds of problems to solve

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 18:24:23 2017 No.4305341 >>4304980 Platinum relics were objectively hard

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 18:25:33 2017 No.4305345

>>4305339

I don't think that's true. What you're describing is similar to learning to play an instrument perfectly. If you can't play it perfectly then there is room for improvement. The point where the wall truly sits is when human improvement is logically impossible, for instance Tetris becomes impossible to play once the blocks are simply moving faster than human reaction time permits.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 18:34:47 2017 No.4305361 >>4305345 There's a lot more variation and a higher skill ceiling to learning something like pinao or violin than Tetris though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:03:59 2017 No.4305416 >>4305361 Tetris, violin, and piano all have essentially infinite skill ceilings. The best it's conceptually possible to be at tetris (or musical instruments) is higher than the best it's humanly possible to be at those things.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:05:51 2017 No.4305419 >>4305416 Violin and piano are magnitudes more complex than Tetrus though, that's the important point.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:12:46 2017 No.4305431 >>4305250 According to your illogic if a game runs on Windows 10 it's not retro then. lol.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:15:59 2017 No.4305439 >>4305431 Not him or his logic, but the rules here are completely retarded.

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:17:11 2017 No.4305440

>>4305419

Not only is that not important at all, it's not true.

There is literally no connection whatsoever to difficulty and complexity. Those are separate concepts that don't relate to one another.

>>4305431

You might want to go take a logic class, they offer those. You'd be laughed down by the instructor/professor for not understanding logic so simple it's taught as an elementary logic gate in programming classes.

He said if a game runs on Win9x then it's retro. Whether or not the game runs on Win10 doesn't affect the outcome of that logic in the slightest.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:24:04 2017 No.4305460 >>4305250 That's funny, the rules specifically said PC games released on or before Dec 31st 1999. It's right up in the sticky. You can go read it yourself. Unless you don't understand how clauses work and I'd be happy to explain it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:25:57 2017 No.4305468 >>4299465 well of course if you can use an emulator with the save state, it turns totally easy, now try to do it without it. You could master it of course, but it is in fact, a hard and annoying game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:27:00 2017 No.4305471 >>4300146 naaaah just the same shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:29:56 2017 No.4305479 >>4305460 >That's funny, the rules specifically said PC games released on or before Dec 31st 1999. Go ahead and quote the sentence from the sticky you think says that so I can have a hearty laugh.

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:36:05 2017 No.4305491

>>4305419
They're both superhumanly, incalculably difficult to master. One might be a type of skill you respect more, but in terms of actual difficulty they're both as far outside of the human grasp as something completely impossible. They are, for all intents, infinitely difficult.

Go is another game that attains superhuman levels of depth and it's really simple. Dwarf Fortress is extremely complex, but it's pretty easy to succeed in. Complexity and difficulty are separate concepts and don't really correlate.

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:39:05 2017 No.4305497
File: 14 KB, 1307x123, retro pc gaming.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4305479

There you go, that should clear things up.

Now I expect you're going to try to use the "no windows 98 is a platform" despite computer gaming specifically being named as a clause to the condition of release date, which is of course nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:41:05 2017 No.4305504 >>4298394 ys3

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:42:08 2017 No.4305509

>>4305491
Nothing superhuman about it. Plenty of humans have mastered one ir more of them. I have a degree of skill with each. It takes a lot more work, practice and ultimately skill to reach the top 5% best piano or violin players than it does the best Tetris players though.

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:45:10 2017 No.4305520

>>4305497
Yes operating system is a platform according to the rules here. This has been long established. I'm sorry you wasted so much time based on a misunderstanding. But it's not surprsing considering how all this started with super weak trolling in the first place.

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:51:03 2017 No.4305537

>>4305520
You're wrong. Here's an example:

You move into a new apartment. You sign a lease that says "No smoking, pets, or guests after 11pm." Do you correctly interpret that to means no smoking is allowed, no pets are allowed, and no guests are allowed after 11pm, or do you follow your idiotic logic and argue that you are allowed to smoke, have pets and guests as long as it isn't after 11pm?

Do you see how clauses in a sentence work now? The "platforms" clause in the sticky isn't referring to PC gaming because PC gaming was already addressed in the second clause.

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 19:57:17 2017 No.4305556

>>4305509
It's conceivable that someone could achieve, say, a speedrun of Super Mario Bros so fast that it would be impossible to ever improve upon it. No one has done this, but it's not quite outside the realm of conceivable human possibility. To master tetris or a musical instrument to the point where there's absolutely no room for improvement is absolutely beyond the realm of human possibility.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 20:12:36 2017 No.4305583 Ghosts n' Goblins is the Dark Souls of retro difficulty.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 20:13:16 2017 No.4305584 >>4298394 super mario 3 and the original zelda. couldn't finish either one

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 20:24:06 2017 No.4305617

>>4305497
>Now I expect you're going to try to use the "no windows 98 is a platform" despite computer gaming specifically being named as a clause to the condition of release date

No it isn't, retard, it says computer games, not computer gaming.

I'm 90% sure you're the troll bitching about online yesterday.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 20:30:01 2017 No.4305628 >>4305509 No, nobody has ever mastered any of the things we're talking about. You're still trying to conflate complexity with difficulty.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 20:32:15 2017 No.4305632 File: 24 KB, 500x643, gfs_37273_1_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Oct 4 20:38:30 2017 No.4305640

>>4305537
Not him, but you do know we have threads for Deus Ex and other games past 2000 because they run on Win 9x, and the mods completely allow it, right?

Ergo, you lose this argument because the mods accept it. It's also nice to see that we have some veterans still around here who don't nit-pick the rules because they're being annoying cunts like yourself. Get the fuck over it. You only nit-picked his game because you couldn't battle him on it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 20:46:35 2017 No.4305654 >>4305439 Don't entirely disagree but you can't please everyone. >>4305440 >he said something the rules don't say and claims thems the rules >that makes him right >there's a 74xx part for that Thanks for the keks kiddo

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 20:52:50 2017 No.4305663 >>4305654 Hmm, no, now you're trying to stuff words into the mouths of two people at once. You're welcome for the keks, we all know you're really grumbling and upset.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 4 21:04:16 2017 No.4305686 >>4298394 Special Operations 2. That fucking Double-Fralthra mission.

Anonymous Thu Oct 5 02:05:27 2017 No.4306104

>>4301378

Love this game. Not hard. You need to get all the energy you can during the space flights. Don't miss shooting anything.
Use your rockets VERY sparingly inside the fortresses. Don't forget to use bombs on the reactors or you'll be there all day.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 02:47:25 2017 No.4306161 >>4300695 comprehend

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 03:27:37 2017 No.4306191 >>4304907 Some more: >Green Beret >Skyroads >Minesweeper >Earthworm Jim

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 20:13:37 2017 No.4307657 >>4305628 Now you're just being pedantic and there is absolutely a correlation between complexity and difficulty. It's not 1 to 1 and there are many ither factors, but pretending the two aren't related is ridiculous.

Anonymous Thu Oct 5 20:28:58 2017 No.4307705

>>4307657
No I'm not, there is no real master of any of the things we're talking about. That's not pedantic in the slightest.

There is no correlation between complexity and difficulty, this is easily proven by the fact that you can make a game simpler and it can just as easily become more difficult than it is to become less difficult. Tetris for instance is more difficult if you simplify it by removing the brick saving feature found in many versions of it.

In fact most games that people consider difficult are the simplest.

I once played Street Fighter against a guy who enters tournaments under the name Brolylegs. He was born disabled and can barely use his hands, which are barely formed. In order to play he has to put the controller up to his cheek and press the buttons with his tongue. He has to play with a different button configuration which means that he can't viably play several characters no matter what he does, so he can only pick characters that his button config allows. The game is substantially simpler and less complex for him because he isn't able to access all of the game, it's super fucking hard for him and he's ridiculously good at the game considered his limitation.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 21:19:44 2017 No.4307789 >>4307705 Saying there is no real master is the height of the pedantry. I didn't even read past there, there's no point. You're just being obtuse for the sake of it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 21:27:45 2017 No.4307809 >>4307789 You're the guy claiming without an argument that complexity is inherently difficult and can't accept the objective fact that there is no one that cannot further improve at any of the examples you listed. I bet you read the post in full.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 21:31:55 2017 No.4307816 >>4307809 >You're the guy claiming without an argument that complexity is inherently difficult a 0/10 reading comprehension 2/10 for baiting another response but you've shown your hand now

Anonymous Thu Oct 5 21:33:46 2017 No.4307818

>>4307816

I have 10/10 reading comprehension which is why I have seen that your "argument" has been to just accept your conclusion as a given and stop there. You're also conveniently ignoring two counter-examples and repeating pedantry over and over again in the face of real arguments.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 21:37:06 2017 No.4307825 >>4307818 nope

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 22:23:46 2017 No.4307906 >>4305632 This, game is fucking brutal even if you are used to arcade.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 5 23:36:32 2017 No.4308085 >>4307906 Even the TG16 version isn't much easier

Anonymous Fri Oct 6 00:19:18 2017 No.4308163

>>4305537
You are completely wrong of course, but it's now It's become interesting because at this point I now can't tell if you're still trolling (remember how this all started) or if this is now genuine upset rearing it's head. On the off chance you really are that dense though, do some actual reading on the uses of commas in English.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 6 03:18:36 2017 No.4308559 >>4298394 Pretty much any Chinese bootleg since the controls and hit detection are so fucked they're borderline impossible.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 6 11:00:58 2017 No.4309102 >>4304507 >To me, that makes it a good game. An anachronism. Did he just say that? OHH SNAP!!

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 6 16:45:11 2017 No.4309921 >tfw beat Comix Zone and got the good ending One of my favorite retro vidya memories.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 6 16:52:48 2017 No.4309936 >>4308163 >willfully ignores basic rules of English >but the other guy is the troll Anything to save face on an anonymous board. What a weird habit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 6 17:08:58 2017 No.4309960 >>4308163 Go start a thread about your shiity ass game then. Put your money where your mouth is if all you can say is "nuh uh you dumb troll!"

Anonymous Fri Oct 6 18:06:01 2017 No.4310068

>>4309960
It wasn't even my game, I was just shoving a sock down your weak ass "hur duur every game us easy if you don't have adhd" for the fun of it and you flailed like a goddamn retard over it.

You never answered though, was that rules shit still your trolling or were you really that stupid? Either way is great.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 6 18:08:49 2017 No.4310074 >>4309936 Try reading up on the various uses of commas in English and maybe you'll grasp why you look so idiotic over the whole thing. Hint not everything is a clause

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 6 20:27:51 2017 No.4310385 >>4304458 Ohh fuck that game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 7 06:18:18 2017 No.4311229 ITT: people who play with savestates.

Anonymous Sat Oct 7 14:12:58 2017 No.4311882

>>4305440
>There is literally no connection whatsoever to difficulty and complexity

But humans can only concentrate on a finite number of things at a time and multitasking either physically or mentally lowers performance. Effectively it makes each activity more difficult.

It's relatively easy to do a number of activities separately,say read a book, tap your feet right to the rhythm of a drum or do multiplication problems in your head. But it's much harder to do all three at once, and all that's been added is complexity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 8 00:00:47 2017 No.4312907 File: 127 KB, 256x192, 1437476633618.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4298394 PS1 is pretty hard with that level cap and those dungeons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 8 09:54:14 2017 No.4313769 >>4312907 Not even close to a real dungeon crawler though.

Anonymous Sun Oct 8 10:13:04 2017 No.4313780

>>4311882

Again, wrong, you can make the toe tapping frame perfect as a requirement as it's too hard for even a professional drummer.

No correlation. It's just as simple to make something simple difficult, meaning there is no correlation.

You cannot claim playing an instrument is "harder" than playing Tetris because "it's more complicated". It's trivial to make Tetris difficult. There are versions made that are so fast that just as many people just give up as compared to people learning to play Flight of the Bumblebee.

Anonymous Sun Oct 8 11:14:28 2017 No.4313861

>>4313780
>You cannot claim playing an instrument is "harder" than playing Tetris because "it's more complicated". It's trivial to make Tetris difficult. There are versions made that are so fast that just as many people just give up as compared to people learning to play Flight of the Bumblebee.

Except that learning to play an instrument us harder and mostly because of it's complexity. Adding speed makes things harder but applies to both equally.

It also gets harder abd harder to play a specific song at a faster tempo, the same way Tetris does. The other guy was right it's not the only thing but it's definitely a factor.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 8 11:41:44 2017 No.4313938 File: 459 KB, 757x678, 1507477304478.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] final fantasy 7

Anonymous Sun Oct 8 13:50:10 2017 No.4314208
File: 1.85 MB, 302x215, kofa_6058092.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4313861
Exactly.

>>4313780
Like I said, it's not the only thing but the two are unquestionably linked. His point wasn't that tapping your toe is hard. It's that tapping your toe in time is much harder if you're also trying to do other shit like answer math riddles, whistle a different tune and play a fighting game at the same time.

The first level of Super Mario 1 is dead easy. Reading a paragraph and then reciting it word for word is also relatively easy. However playing the first level of Super Mario 1 while a line of text scrolls past and being able to beat the level and then recite the text is a much, harder task than doing one or either separately.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 8 23:18:21 2017 No.4315543 File: 691 KB, 320x200, budokan 1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Budokan is actually quite difficult to complete.

Anonymous Sun Oct 8 23:25:07 2017 No.4315552

>>4314208

You still don't get it.

You haven't proven anything, any example you can make to prove how you made the game harder doesn't matter, you have to prove that it's impossible to make a simple game just as much harder. Otherwise saying complex games are harder than simple games means nothing.

Your initial statement was this self-contradictory nonsense:
>Like puzzle games can and often do get to absurd levels of difficulty that would take an incredible amount of practice to beat but I would consider it less of a challenge to perfect that kind of gameplay than master something with multiple layers and different kinds of problems to solve

>absurd levels of difficulty
>less of a challenge to perfect that kind of gameplay than master something with multiple layers and different kinds of problems to solve

All of the "complex" games you're talking about are easy shit, the hardest games are puzzle games, shoot em ups, really just the oldest, simplest games. You're not validating your claim, you're trying to defend the hole easily poked in it over and over again.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 8 23:32:42 2017 No.4315563 >>4298520 Memorizing is part of the equation. 'execution' is quite literally muscle memory.

Anonymous Sun Oct 8 23:37:44 2017 No.4315575

>>4315563

Muscle memory is difficult. Especially when it's difficult to know when to doing that fancy finger pressing.

In ST, Ken's throw loops are obnoxious to get out of because the person being looped has to do a frame perfect shoryuken when Ken tries to throw. You can make this easier by doing a piano technique (press all three punch buttons one after the other) but that's hard because the Ken player can fuck with the timing. The technique to make it easier is still totally necessary but becomes really awkward to use.

Anonymous Sun Oct 8 23:41:33 2017 No.4315580

>>4315552
Nothing you just said comes close to discounting the point that compexity and difficulty are linked. Because it's self evident.

The only thing that makes something like Tetris get truly difficult is when it's moving do fast you can barely react.

Same with shumps, they only really get difficult when they're moving fast or there's a ton of bullets and enemies on screen, which is back to complexity.

And again, making something fast makes everything harder. Take a truly difficult game like a traditional roguelike. They're all turn based for a good reason. The games are so complex and challenging that you often need to carefully consider your options and what the next best move will be. Adding real world time pressure would make them far more difficult.

So with Tetris, when it's starting to get challenging you have maybe a second from your block appearing to when it will land and that's why it's starting to get hard.

Nethack where you had to make a move literally every second would be virtually unbeatable.

Sorry, there is most deffinitely a relationship between the two.

Anonymous Sun Oct 8 23:47:07 2017 No.4315584

>>4315580

You still haven't justified a blanket statement like "complex games are more difficult".

Saying Tetris being so fast that it's basically too fast for human reactions isn't any different from taking anything else and making it too difficult for human reactions. If you are going to do that, then the complexity of the game means nothing. It's going to be so fast that your human brain will be boggled.

You're aiming for an argument based on some nuance that, for all practical purposes, doesn't mean anything.

And this still is not accounting for instances of games where simplicity makes the game harder, such as the example of removing the block saving feature from Tetris.

Anonymous Mon Oct 9 00:00:40 2017 No.4315605

>>4315584
Because I wasn't making that blanket statement. I was saying the two are related.

Something like Tetris can be difficult, but only when something like speed is increased. You could easily play level 1 Tetris for as long as you could stay awake. It's hard because it gets fast, and that's something that's universal.

> you are going to do that, then the complexity of the game means nothing

It basically doesn't. Tetris is very simple, without time pressure it's extremely easy to arrange the blocks so you keep your level low. Speed makes it hard.

Again if you added that to Nethack the game would be so hard it would be nearly unplayable. That's why it's turn based.

Compexity isn't the only thing that makes something difficult, but can most certainly be a contributing factor.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 07:48:13 2017 No.4316194 Jet Force Gemini?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 07:58:15 2017 No.4316205 Every game posted in this thread, by any definition either objective, subjective, individual, etc. is easy for me to beat in one try. Even the ones I never played until I tried them because I saw them in this thread were easy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 09:32:56 2017 No.4316317 >>4316205 Lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 11:16:12 2017 No.4316472 Comix Zone with the good ending

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 12:59:44 2017 No.4316649 File: 126 KB, 640x1066, 304-Enemy_Zero_Disc_1_of_4_(U)-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Surprised nobody said Enemy Zero.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 13:06:28 2017 No.4316658 >>4316649 the thing that pisses me off is that this game would have been passable if the sound locator thing had FUCKING STEREO. trying to find an invisible monster in a 3D space based on the pings in ONE FUCKING EAR is a nightmare

Anonymous Mon Oct 9 13:14:54 2017 No.4316668

>>4301530
I just thought of this. I can do fine, until I hit the fight with Zod, or whatever that huge fucker's name is.

I can get a handle on the mechanics and timing. I know just how much the healing items restore, and how much the side weapons take off. I can get the timing of the berserk rages. what I can't do is put it all together in a perfectly coordinated performance. I keep slipping up, somewhere, and losing just enough health that I don't make it.

that fight is a goddamned high-wire act. you have to do a million things PERFECTLY to get through it.

Anonymous Mon Oct 9 13:17:12 2017 No.4316674

>>4301972
can we add to this the kind of Rain Man autism kids who dial into pattern recognition and reflexes that most people don't have? nothing is worse than some idiot savant bragging about how the one thing he is good at is super easy and he can't understand why no one else can get on his level.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 13:18:29 2017 No.4316676 >>4303476 >pain in the ass =/= difficult not even trying to start a fight... seriously, can you explain this?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 13:20:38 2017 No.4316683 >>4300137 This game can't be beaten without cheating. It also is two years too new to be retro.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 14:02:48 2017 No.4316780 File: 23 KB, 278x358, NBA_2K2_Cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4316683 >>4316683 It can actually, and that's disputed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 15:11:39 2017 No.4316965 >>4316674 >reflexes that most people don't have stop playing on that laggy LCD you dummy

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 15:13:10 2017 No.4316970 >>4299413 Nigga please. Like it's so hard to learn not to go all the way up or down on that last section.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 15:14:19 2017 No.4316973 >>4298513 When hurdles are stacked demanding you be uber precise.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 15:20:34 2017 No.4317001 >>4298394 I find shooters absurdly difficult and I can't into them for shit. Between the single hit deaths and trying to shift focus from my ship to the enemies on the screen just slays me. Also given up on ever being good at RTS.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 17:17:57 2017 No.4317270 >>4317001 What games are you good at?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 17:19:13 2017 No.4317274 >>4317270 Everything not rts or shooter. Ikaruga is the only shooter I can play competently but I'm sure it's considered casual shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 18:15:32 2017 No.4317374 >>4317274 Can you play fighters or puzzle games like Puyo well?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 18:17:25 2017 No.4317378 >>4317374 Shit yeah fighters are my favorite genre. Puzzlers not so much they get a little tedious for me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 18:37:40 2017 No.4317390 >>4317378 Weeeird, I wonder why. Cool though, everyone's brain is different.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 9 18:46:58 2017 No.4317408 >>4317390 I've tried so, so hard to get gud at Starcraft. I just suck hard at the micromanagement. I'm okay with shmups that rely on patterns they just seem really unforgiving if you don't play conservatively enough.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 02:46:23 2017 No.4318216

>>4316676
The controls and interface are not sensibly designed at all and it makes learning the commands take much longer than it should. The game is also quite bloated with lots of unclear and redundant items, features, etc. However, once you do know the controls and the basic rules, it is trivial to keep your dwarves alive and lead them to great wealth and power.

Anonymous Tue Oct 10 02:50:31 2017 No.4318220

>>4317408
>they just seem really unforgiving if you don't play conservatively enough.
That's the natural process of learning a shmup. First you learn to play as defensively as possible and rely heavily on bombs until you're good enough to reliably 1cc. That in and of itself can be a long process. Then once you've got that foundation, you build on it by playing for score, going for no-miss clears, and those sorts of things.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 02:58:28 2017 No.4318229 >>4317274 ikaruga is average difficulty. it's actually pretty hard for a non-looping shooter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 08:20:45 2017 No.4318534 Ephemeral Phantasia. Fucking impossible without a guide, and the limits for how long a "day" is is way too short to give you time to level up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 10:13:50 2017 No.4318637 >>4318220 That sounds so fucking boring to me

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 10 23:55:53 2017 No.4319910 >>4316965 Makes no difference.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:09:00 2017 No.4319941 Dear Esther Kirby's Epic Yarn Klonoa Wiimake All games that are both definitely older than 1999 and make Dark Souls Player's look like fucking pussies.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:30:47 2017 No.4319981

>>4303148
I played the final fantasy chronicles version. Yeah it was hard by final fantasy standards, but the part of that experience I'll always remember is grinding like 20-30 levels at the last savepoint. It's one of the grindiest jrpg's I've ever played, and the most difficult part by far was not quitting during that final stretch out of boredom

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:32:14 2017 No.4319986 >>4319941 >Kirby's Epic Yarn Is there some secret mode I am unaware of? Last I checked, you literally couldn't die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 00:33:06 2017 No.4319990 >>4319986 thatsthejoke.jpg

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 01:10:52 2017 No.4320045 >>4319990 I was unfamiliar with the other two titles. My bad.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 01:54:59 2017 No.4320136

>>4318637
What does? Playing defensively until you're good enough to play aggressively? That's going to be true for any difficult game. Gotta learn to walk before you can run. You could always pick an easy shmup and play aggressively right from the start.

If you don't want to play for score or go for the second loop or whatever then that's fine. Single loop 1CCs are still plenty satisfying to work towards.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 02:01:19 2017 No.4320143

>>4318220
Makes sense. I do good enough against bosses but I always end up doing something stupid on the stages. I do way better on ones where you ship is slow it's like the fast and loose shooters always get me killed from overdoing it.

>>4318229
I really got in the groove with it. I think screen distance and the fact that it's vertical has a lot to do with it though. Also the reverse coloring becomes instinct really quick.

Anonymous Wed Oct 11 04:31:03 2017 No.4320319

>>4320143
I think it's usually harder to tell what you're doing wrong in stages. Like, if you're on the wrong part of the screen when enemies spawn or if you prioritize the wrong target things can become much harder than they need to be. Bosses are simpler (not necessarily easier) because you generally just need to dodge the patterns for long enough to deplete their hp.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 04:42:01 2017 No.4320327 >>4298517 yes just yes

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 08:23:14 2017 No.4320521 >>4298404 I can get to the last level without too much trouble, but that level is impossible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 11 22:05:34 2017 No.4321974 >>4320143 Vertical vs horizontal makes a huge difference.

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/vr/ - Retro Games