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4297895 No.4297895 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

I'd really like to get into old-school blobbers. I read about cRPG history all the time, but getting into the games proper is a bitch for me. Isometric RPGs with easy mouse interfaces were common when I started gaming, so it's very daunting to go back to barely textured dungeons.
I've started Might & Magic I, figuring I'd prefer its more adventurous approach to hardcore shit like Wizardry. Is it even worth it making my own maps, though? I can't imagine constructing 50+ sheets of graph paper by bumping into walls. Any advice to ease me into it is appreciated.

>> No.4297928

MM1 has so small dungeons that a map isn't needed.

>> No.4298167

>>4297895
If it's an old school 20x20 crawler you can just open this in paint and use the bucket to fill in the black lines and make hallways.

For games with huge maps like Wiz 5 and newer I always just scribbled out a rough layout on paper and wrote L,L,R etc directions for the labyrinthine parts. If the game has secret doors that you can only find by wall humping you're screwed though.

>> No.4298204
File: 5 KB, 512x342, might-and-magic-book-one-secret-of-the-inner-sanctum_14.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4298204

The Mac version has a pretty decent mouse-driven interface:

http://www.oldgames.sk/en/game/might-and-magic-book-i/download/8903/

>> No.4298456

>>4297895
Skip this pseudo first person stuff and try traditional roguelikes. They are damn fun and really interesting. If they have to be retro I'd say try adom or nethack, if not try brogue, dcss, the ground gives way or my favorite infra arcana.

>> No.4298693
File: 35 KB, 754x661, 1504398449396.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4298693

>>4298167
forgot pic

>> No.4298730

>>4297895

Not retro, but Etrian Odyssey is a good way to ease into Dungeon Crawlers

>> No.4298732

>>4298204
looks super comfy

>> No.4298741

>>4297895
Play the SNES ports of the Wizardry games.

>> No.4298762

The Gold Box games like Pool of Radiance are some of the good games that you could get into for early CRPGs
>>4298730
Etrian Odyssey introduced some gameplay mechanics different enough to diverge itself from most of the original dungeon crawling experience though. That said, not a bad recommendation

>> No.4298841

>>4297895
Just play MegaTen they removed all the stupid artificial fluff those turds were plagued with at the time.

>> No.4298908

MM1 is easy to map. Dungeons are 16x16 and have no wrap-around or other annoyances. You can fit 6 maps on a single page. It's a decent training before going into more complex games.
You only need to search for secret doors when you feel like there's something hidden.
You can also map the overworld one quadrant at a time.

>> No.4298935

Dark Heart of Uurkrl that is definitely one of my favorites. There is another one it was for the Amiga but I can't remember the name I think it might be Black Crypt, it's was by the same guys who went on to make Heretic and Hexen.

>> No.4299282

>>4298693
This is cheating!

>> No.4299319

>>4298693
>someone saved this and is using it for their own sessions
Now I feel kind of proud

>> No.4299956

>>4298935
>Dark Heart of Uurkrl
That game beat the shit out of me so hard I gave up, so much cool stuff but it's horrifically brutal if you play it honest.

>>4297895
>Is it even worth it making my own maps, though?
Depends on the game but some of them really are much more fun when you make your own map. Having said that I think M&M introduced auto mapping as early as 2. There are tons of free tools for map making, can't recall any names right now though.

>>4298841
>MegaTen
Most of the ones I've played start out fun and become pure torture by the end.

>> No.4300719

>>4299956
>MegaTen
>Most of the ones I've played start out fun and become pure torture by the end.

More than Wizardry?

>> No.4300746
File: 150 KB, 720x1080, crispy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4300746

>>4300719

Wizardry (other than 4) usually start out as pure torture and then get pretty fun as you level up your characters and magic. I wouldn't say they're ever easy or completely fair, but surviving those first few floors is definitely the toughest part.

As for Megaten, I can only really speak for the SNES ones. They are fucking grueling. The encounter rate in the first one is absolutely absurd. It has a great story and really cool worldbuilding, but the game is very demanding of your time. Also, the last dungeon is just way way way too complicated and long for it's own good. Use shock spells to trivialize most boss fights in SMT1.

>> No.4300831

>>4297895
Playing M&M I. How the fuck do I get money in this game when you start a party with 0 gold and no weapons?!

>> No.4300913

>>4300831
If it's anything like Isles of Terra (only one I ever played), farm weak shits until money.

>> No.4300942

>>4300746
The Wizardries aren't too bad. The early game monsters can generally be handled by level 1 groups as long as you run from the biggest and scariest groups and you level up pretty quick.

Bard's Tale, on the other hand, is absolutely brutal at first.

>> No.4300963

>>4300831
>>4300913
Yep. Might & Magic 1 starts you off with literally nothing and you'll have to punch the kinds of shit you can handle at level 1 without equipment to get money. The game is balanced around this being possible.

>> No.4301008

>>4297895
You should try Demise: The Revelation

I think it's technically retro, though the version that work online now have been fan updated with new content over the years.

>> No.4301194
File: 73 KB, 600x686, 1321828606320.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4301194

>>4300963
sign me up

>> No.4301274

>>4300831
You've got to search after each encounter.

>> No.4301872

>>4300963
MM1 should be started with the premade party. You can transfer their items to a new one if you really want, but the rerolling is not worth it IMO.

>> No.4302340

>>4300963

In the beginning you will face enemies you can neither defeat nor run from.

>> No.4302583

I'm looking to give each of the Wizardry, Ultima, and M&M games a try since they're the most influential and I want see how they evolved over time. Seeing the success of Divinity OS2, I wanted to get into this crpg genre, so I started with Pillars of Eternity and played until I got into a good groove going. I played through about half of Ultima 1 until I decided the leveling system was shit and dropped it, skipped 2 after watching a video on it, couldn't get the patch working for 3 so I downloaded the NES version. For 4, should I try vanilla, patched, SNES, or Genesis?

I got the SNES version of Wizardry 1-3 and have been enjoying it more, but I don't think I'm going to complete each of these.

So, 1, what are the best versions/ports of Ultima/M&M/Wizardry I should play, 2, what are the best games of each series, and 3, any other series or standalone titles I should check out?

I'm mostly looking forward to trying out stuff like Baldur's Gate, Planescape, and Fallout.

>> No.4302628

>>4302583
For Ultima go with the fan remakes (xu4, nuvie, Exult, Pentagramm). Get the Ultima patcher for the rest.
The most important are 4-6 and Underworld 1.

For Wizardry I'd recommend starting with 5 as a bridge between 1 and 6. FM Towns or PS1 are the obvious choices. You can ignore 2 and 3, they are just more of the same with no worthwhile additions.

Might and Magic is child's play. Play 3 and 4+5 if you want an easy introduction to the genre. 1 and 2 are more challenging but still lenient compared to Wizardry. Macintosh is a decent option for the first games.

>> No.4302913

>>4300746
I've played to the cathedral in SMT1 and dropped the game, twice. The only way to make the game playable is to find a monster with a spell that prevents random encounters, and never ever lose it. Even then the mazes are so screwed up it takes forever just to walk around.

>> No.4303202

>>4302583
If you're going to play Wizardry and M&M, give Bard's Tale a try too. Those three were pretty much sibling series, offering different takes on the same gameplay style, and are well worth comparing and contrasting.

>> No.4303504

>>4298693
How am I supposed to draw doors?

>> No.4303506

>>4302628
>>4303202
I'd also like to know what the accepted "best" games of each series are. I hear Ultima 4 and 7 are the best, and maybe Wizardry 8? I don't know about M&M though.

>> No.4303537

>>4303506

M&M 3-7 (and maybe 8) are all just amazing games.

>> No.4303545

>>4303506
With Might and Magic 6 and 7 are widely considered the best, although all of them from 3-8 are very good. For the people in this thread they would all probably be considered pretty casual. /homm/ has a pastebin with a breakdown of the Might and Magic games.

>> No.4303604

>>4299282
Not really. Old dungeon crawlers encouraged players to make their own maps.

>> No.4303727

>>4303504
line in the middle of the block

>> No.4303741

>>4300746
most of the flaws in the SNES SMT games were fixed in the PS1 remakes i believe

>> No.4303750

>>4297895
With M&M I yes you do need to map on graph paper. There are secret doors and passes everywhere, so make a little tick on the line when you tap that particular wall, too.

When the pages begin to accumulate it's a nice feeling going through them.

>> No.4303879

>>4303727
Do doors take up a tile or are they just walls?

>> No.4303894

>>4303506
Expect very significant difficulty drop after VI. VIII is easy even for a new player, trivial for someone who finished at least one M&M game.

>> No.4303904

>>4303545
1 is my favorite M&M.

>> No.4303954

>>4303904
My favourite M&M is the red one. Peanut M&Ms are the best.

>> No.4304016

>>4303506
Wizardry 5,7 and 8 are generally the favorites, and they're all so different that I don't think you can really say one is the best. You can add Wiz 4 to the list too if you're cool enough to play it, I'm fucking not.

>> No.4304173

>>4303954
Clearly you've never had caramel M&Ms.

>> No.4304202

>decide to boot up Stonekeep
>everything seems to be going well
>alright making progress finally
>shax and whatsizface kick my ass over and over
I'm not claiming to be good at this whole dungeoneering thing, but what the hell did I do wrong? These guys are way stronger than other goblins and I only have 2 oil bombs left.

>> No.4304204

>>4303954
>>4304173
>not eating peanut butter M&Ms

>> No.4304373
File: 8 KB, 754x661, wizardry1-1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4304373

>>4303504
Red lines is how I did it. The difference between visible and hidden doors in Wizardry is mostly meaningless since you should always have the light spell active.

>> No.4304380

>>4303879
Just walls. These games all give you coordination spells that help you figuring out where exactly in the grid you are.

>> No.4304420

>>4304373
How do you mark one way doors?

>> No.4304426

>>4304420
<^>v

>> No.4304427

>>4304420
Red on the side they can be opened from, black on the other. There's a huge bunch of them down in the lower right corner of that particular map.

>> No.4304489
File: 1.22 MB, 500x376, GB.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4304489

This thread sparked my interest in this type of game. I have an interest in playing games in their original form, regardless of how well they have aged. To that end, I've been seeking the original Apple 2 ROMs for the Ultima, Wizardry, and Might and Magic series.

However, I can't find a good dump of the first Might and Magic for the Apple 2. Trying to play them on AppleWin - I have a bad dump which stalls on the title screen, and a cracked version which lets me create characters but not enter the actual game.

Does anyone have a working Apple 2 ROM of Might and Magic I, or if you have the original floppies, is it at all possible you could dump your copy of them?

Would appreciate any help here.

>> No.4304658

>>4302583
https://www.sendspace.com/file/e6edgx

This seems to work - they're not "first boot" roms, the starting party wasn't available when I downloaded them, but other than that it's fine.
Unlike Wizardry, the DOS port of M&M1 seems to be a pretty straight conversion of the Apple II game though. Like you, I'm curious about playing things as they came out, but admittedly the disc swapping on this system is fucking annoying.

>> No.4305026

>>4304658
Guessing you were trying to reply to >>4304489?

Thanks for this. It's actually the same as the one in the TOSEC set (same crack group) however your copy doesn't include any characters. The one in TOSEC, for some reason, includes a bunch of pre-generated characters (seemingly made by the cracker themselves, as they don't match with the regular pre-made team from other versions of the game).

Considering there doesn't seem to be a properly dumped version of the Apple II version, I think I'll just play the PC one because as you say, its a pretty straight port.

>> No.4306995

Bump for interest.

>> No.4307052

>>4304489
>>4305026

https://pastebin.com/6G9B1cMA

>> No.4307064
File: 214 KB, 798x596, wizardGameplay.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4307064

I don't mean to toot my own horn but I actually threw this wizardry game together in java last week, been meaning to start adding players and monsters.... been lazy.

>> No.4307176
File: 180 KB, 1200x630, Wizardry1-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4307176

Came here just for this. Just got Wizardry 1 for the NES and finally got into it. One thing I have to say is that automaps killed this genre in the long run, or at least took a huge chunk out of it. There's something really satisfying about making your own map and orienting yourself.

>> No.4307193

>>4307176
You'll be happy to hear that no other floor in the game is as annoying as floor 3. That floor should've been floor 6 or so, it absolutely kills newcomers.

>> No.4307207

>>4307176
It is. Even remakes of the Wizardry games kill the purpose of stuff like spinners since you always know where you are.

>> No.4307213

>>4307176
Do you mark squares you have been to or squares you can see?

>> No.4307214

>>4307193
I am happy to hear that actually.
The eastern teleport in floor 1 confused the fuck out of me until I learned Dumapic.

>> No.4307219

>>4307213
Typically squares I'm standing on.

>> No.4307227

>>4307214
Yeah, Dumapic is extremely valuable.

Here's a spoiler for a nasty surprise you're in for, don't read it if you want to retain the surprise: There are certain clusters of squares where magic doesn't work. This includes Dumapic. These squares may have spinners on them.

>> No.4307242

>>4307207
Even Etrian Oddyssey doesn't get it quite right, it shows your location and even without that the mazes just aren't that confusing. There are at least a few more recent games that let you turn automap off, and Wizardry I-III on SNES has an option for the old school coordinates-based dumapic.

>> No.4307261

>>4307227
Really tempted to mouse over. I'm sure one of the lower floors'll fuck my shit up.
>>4307242
There are at least a few more recent games that let you turn automap off

Good to know automap's been maligned just enough to start warranting the option to shut it down.

>> No.4307269

>>4307261
>Really tempted to mouse over. I'm sure one of the lower floors'll fuck my shit up.
It's more of a genre thing than a Wizardry 1 thing, but it does happen in this game too.

>> No.4307335

>>4307219
Do you really enter every square? You can tell if a square is special and extra steps just cause encounters.

>> No.4307338

>>4307227
>>4307269
The real fun is combining it with dark areas. I think Wizardry 2 did that.

>> No.4307342

>>4307335
I used to draw every square I could see, penciling in a step or two ahead, but teleporters made me a little more cautious.

>> No.4307348

>>4307338
>tfw it's dark!

>> No.4307375

>>4307335
Teleporters aren't marked, I believe.

>> No.4307382

>>4307375
From my limited experience they are not marked. At least not in Wizardry I.

>> No.4307467

>>4307382
Varies a bit between versions. Some don't have event squares marked either, you have to step on them to get the event. Forgot what the NES version does.

>> No.4307508
File: 45 KB, 693x591, Ms_Green_MMs_on_Couch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4307508

>>4303954
>red
The green ones'll get your dick hard.

>> No.4307642

>>4307064
You should probably improve graphics a bit? I mean, opengameart.com exists.

https://opengameart.org/users/djonvincent
https://opengameart.org/content/js-fprpg-texture-pack-01
https://opengameart.org/art-search-advanced?field_art_tags_tid=RPG

(also if people tell you it's not retro, I think there's a gamedev general on /vg)

>> No.4307676

>>4307642
At most all it really needs is a floor.
Then again, I like the grid system; makes cartography easier.

>> No.4307698

>>4298732
>http://www.oldgames.sk/en/game/might-and-magic-book-i/download/8903/

Me tard'ed.
How me run tosh version under Winblows ten?

>> No.4307763
File: 7 KB, 741x560, Clipboard0122.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4307763

>>4307676
>>4307064
You can still have wall visibly sectioned off into a grid while using actual textures.\
In fact, real graphics can make mapping even EASIER - here's a quick mockup to give an example.
If you'd structure the game graphics this way, game looks nicer AND is easier to map because you can more or less see the grid visualized via darkness. And far-away stuff being darker makes it more atmospheric, too.

>> No.4307780
File: 6 KB, 281x185, 0121.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4307780

>>4307698

Umm, just click on #runme.bat

>> No.4307810

>>4307176
The beauty of making your own map is the sense of genuine discovery that's been mostly lost on modern games for several years now and in spite of this recent open world boom, to boot.
Without automap, the dungeon itself is a monster to be conquered once section at a time, and it always feels like you've defeated that monster when you confidently stroll through it after charting its layout and overcoming its traps.
I'd love it if a modern game managed to capture that feeling, but I doubt one ever will. Even the Souls series hasn't quite managed it.

>> No.4307832

>>4307780

Me are not less tard'ed.

Me unblock attribute for .bak and .exe.

Winblows Defender still says 'NYET!!!'.

>> No.4307846

>>4307832
Did you run it as an admin?

>> No.4307849

>>4307846

That sounds like the most botnet thing that ever botnet'ed...

>> No.4307973

>>4307508
Is there a better example of a company embracing a meme?

>> No.4307991

>>4307849

This is all that's in the .bat file:

>@echo off
>"Mini vMac.exe" "System Startup" "MM12.dsk"

>> No.4308026

>>4307991

Too late.

Already bahleted all the files and folders cuz defender kept making stinks 'bout them.

I weep into by beer and crawl back to uMoria.

>> No.4308037

>>4308026

You really are "tard'ed".

>> No.4308042

>>4307176
While I agree with you and the points anon replying to you made, I really hate that there are no in-game tools for mapping and taking notes whatsoever. I know that it was a limitation of contemporary hardware (just finding a way to cram it into the interface was a fun task in and of itself, let alone writing a simple graphics editor that won't double the game's memory and FD/HD footprint), but I had more than my fill of drawing maps and taking notes on paper and later trying to figure which game and which playthrough each belongs to about 15 years ago. I still have an entire folder of those lying around somewhere.
So, while I agree that automaps do detract significantly from the experience, there's no excuse for new games and even remakes to not have a mapping tool and a notepad built into the game itself.

>> No.4308043

>>4308037

Not arguing, and my dunkelweiss is empty. Only sadness now...

>> No.4308051

>>4308042
Oh I definitely agree with you there. I'd strongly prefer a map tool over automap, and it'd be a good alternative to constantly looking up and down at your map sheet. Hell, an intuitive enough developer could even put a game element into the act of mapmaking itself. Like a cash bonus for accurate mapmaking if you deliver your finished map to a cartography shop or something similar, without giving away your inaccuracies of course.

>> No.4308102

>>4300942
>and you level up pretty quick.
One thing I like about Wizardry 1 is how quickly you do level up. The devs knew the difference between challenging gameplay and bad pacing.

>> No.4308216

>>4308051
>Hell, an intuitive enough developer could even put a game element into the act of mapmaking itself. Like a cash bonus for accurate mapmaking if you deliver your finished map to a cartography shop or something similar, without giving away your inaccuracies of course.
That's a really cool idea. You can even have another party find you and either thank you for outstanding job or angry because they lost someone because of your mistakes.

>> No.4308279

>>4308216
See that's also appealing. All they had to do was think a little bit about the appeal of these games, and add to that appeal. See where it goes.

>> No.4308805

>>4308102
You level up quickly at first. It'll take longer once you reach level 10 or so.

Also, if you haven't tried it yet, changing classes will reduce a character to level 1 and base race stats, so the quick early levels is also partially so this won't fuck you COMPLETELY over.

>> No.4308834

>>4308805
Class changing is also the only way to get a lord without cheating. Even tough the reduction to base race stats make them useless as front liners you can still change your backrow mages to lords and priests to samurai to end up with more HP which helps against spellcasters and monsters with breath attacks.

>> No.4309802

>>4308834
If you're going for a Lord, you should be creating a Fighter with stats as close to a Lord's minimum as possible, then class change the instant you can. This is literally the only good use for class changing.

>> No.4309820
File: 1 KB, 160x144, Wizardry I - Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (Japan) [En by Opus v1.0].000.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4309820

What the heck is that?

>> No.4309825

>>4309820
You playing on some casualized version, I assume.

29 bonus points, Jesus. Almost enough for a ninja.

>> No.4309870

>>4307810
No matter how much you rationalize it, it makes no sense whatsoever within the game world. If you actually wandered a dungeon full of 100% identical walls, you'd be leaving behind breadcrumbs to map it, not autistically bump into walls. Mapping early blobbers is fucking terrible, and only nostalgiafags like it. God forbid if the maps are larger 16x16. Actual good dungeon crawls like Dungeon Master don't require mapping because you can mark things with items and there are some landmarks.

>> No.4309967

>>4309870
>I don't like it, therefore anybody who does like it is just pretending for nostalgia

Actually, shitbird, I broke into Wizardry and blobbers in general about four days ago and fell in love with mapmaking aspect after spending a few years slogging through not retro handholding. You don't have to like it--it's certainly not for everyone--but don't delude yourself into thinking that anyone who has a different opinion is specifically trying to be contrary to yours.

>> No.4309970

>>4309820
Looking like Opus did a lot more than just translate that rom.

>> No.4309982

>>4309970
Which version of the game IS that, anyway?

>> No.4310023

>>4309982
Did a check on Opus. He's only done translations for the GBC versions of Wizardry.
I didn't even know there was a GBC version of Wizardry.

>> No.4310045

>>4310023
Why would anyone play a GBC rom of Wizardry 1? It's on a million systems, I can't imagine the GBC version having anything of value to offer.

>> No.4310050

>>4309820
Don't play humans. They have no redeeming qualities over the other races.

>> No.4310053

>>4310045
GBC Wizardry is half a Gaiden game. They have smaller maps and the alternate stat system.

>> No.4310054

>>4310045
It's portable. You can't exactly carry a desktop PC around with you.

>> No.4310056
File: 35 KB, 334x384, 41002_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4310056

>>4310045
At a guess it was because Wizardry took off in Japan the way Final Fantasy took off in the states. Wiz I, II, and III were all ported to GBC exclusively in Japan.

>> No.4310057

>>4310054
>>4310056
Yeah, I meant why would anyone download a translated rom to play it on an emulator.

>> No.4310058

>>4310056
i fucking love the box art for the old wizardry games

>> No.4310060

>>4310054
You can actually.

>> No.4310080
File: 2.56 MB, 1722x2632, 2893126-w2_kod_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4310080

>>4310058
Same here. 1 through 4 were masterpieces.\
Dunno what happened from 5 to 8. Least they were smart enough to get the original style for the SNES version of 5

>> No.4310086

>>4310057
What does the translation even do? It's not like the PS1 or SFC ports with Japanese spell descriptions and the like.

>> No.4310104

>>4310086
Amateur fan translators would cut their teeth on something simple I guess. Usually if there's minimal use of the language being translated, the rom is more likely to get a fix.
Same reason why sound novels will likely never get translated.

>> No.4310107

>>4310050
Typically this is true, but I have one neutral human fighter in my party who's actually done more for the team than my dwarf.

>> No.4310109

>>4309802
Are Samurai good at all? I've got one guy who's close to hitting Samurai

>> No.4310124

>>4310109
Samurau with the Muramasa are basically death incarnate for single target or magic resistant foes, at least in Wizardry 1 - 2 - 3.

>> No.4310129

>>4310109
Extra Dumapic casts.

>> No.4310131

>>4310124
>>4310109
Me again. I forgot that you can actually roll a character high enough to start as a Samurai or Bishop. You could use a Thief Dagger to turn your rouge into a Ninja without them reverting to level 1. Lord is the only character you have to class change into in the first game. Later titles would include a ring or something that turned you into one as well.

>> No.4310135

>>4310131
The Thief Dagger only has like a 0.2% chance to drop from a treasure chests in the last two floors.
Don't count on it.

>> No.4310141
File: 31 KB, 347x384, gaiden.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4310141

>>4310080
they also emulated it for the gaiden games, which i thought was a nice touch

you can tell the devs of those REALLY loved the originals

>> No.4310156

>>4310124
That's a good sign.
>>4310129
That sealed the deal.
>>4310131
The manual implied as much, but I got impatient and settled for a fighter.

>> No.4310328

woah that game looks like undertale cool
op!

>> No.4310438

>>4310328
Welcome, what's your wizardrysona?

>> No.4310445

>>4310109
Samurai are good, but as has been pointed out, you can actually start out as them. Class changing into them isn't really worth it, since they'll end up lagging behind in stats and don't really get anything to make up for it. MAYBE worth doing it if you stumble over a Muramasa Blade.

>> No.4310472

>>4310131
Bishop isn't a prestige class, though. They're like red mages in Final Fantasy, can use both schools of magic, but not particularly well.

>> No.4310530

>>4310445
My party's only level 7 so it shouldn't be too huge a leap. First party, just getting started.

>>4310472
Luckily I looked up the manual. NES version made this really confusing by changing Bishop to Wizard. Gotta love that Nintendo censorship.

>> No.4310541

>>4310530
Class changing resets you to base race stats, so you not only get returned to level 1, you also lose all the bonus points you rolled for when you created the character. It's pretty crippling.

>> No.4310549

>>4310541
Jesus. Might as well just roll a replacement. Did not know that you got 0 bonus points for changing class. Thank you.

>> No.4310561

>>4310549
Yeah, you're much better off creating a samurai from scratch.
Do consider changing a fighter into a lord, though. Lords are cool.

>> No.4310567

>>4310561
Lords sounded cool. Working on turning my main into a Lord and so far it's going pretty smoothly.

>> No.4310947
File: 9 KB, 752x768, 49704.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4310947

>>4300942
>>4300942
>>4300942

At least on the c64 Bard's tale allowed you to import characters as the game series went on though, which made it somewhat easier. So grindy starting out though. Most warez copies of bt2 going around had some high level characters already on it (Elric name pops in my head, can't remember the others offhand) with high level items (sword of zar, arom's knife, etc) and you would start a new party and load one of these uber characters in to powerlevel the rest of the group a little bit to make them viable against basic (WANDER MAGE! BUG MAN!) exploring enemies, then removed them from the group for dungeon delving.

Those were such great games.

Dating myself here, but I actually used a book of graph paper to map out dungeons in Bard's Tale 2. It was fuckin ridiculous. The anti-magic darkness zones....then the anti-magic, dark, + spinners zones. What the fuck.


So fun though.

like this, basically

>> No.4311328

>>4310947
Yeah, importing characters was a huge part of these games. Wizardry 2 and 3 don't even let you create new characters, you MUST play with characters imported from Wizardry 1 (and these characters MUST have completed that game before you can send them over).

>> No.4311365

>>4297895
Why bother? Those old games are unplayable nowadays. Games are for fun, don't play them just because you feel like you have to.

You can start at M&M VI, at worst.

>> No.4311370
File: 121 KB, 1920x1022, Screenshot-Main.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4311370

I found a pretty good automap program for M&M1-5: https://www.eskimo.com/~edv/lockscroll/WhereAreWe/

>> No.4311404

>>4311370
That looks really cool. I've started drawing the maps but it's way too tedious for me. I'll try this out, thanks anon.

>> No.4311407

>>4311365
>playing anything before Oblivion
haha ok gramps

>> No.4311408

>>4311370
Automaps are for fags. The entire point is that shit like spinners and teleporters may fuck up your map drawing.

>> No.4311409

>>4307052
These are just the GOG versions of the DOS port of the game, not the Apple 2 version.

>> No.4311427

>>4311408

No, that's just artificial difficulty.

>> No.4311439

>>4311427
That's like saying being able to die in a game is artificial difficulty. The entire point of spinners is to potentially confuse the player about where he is.

>> No.4311471

>>4311439
Which makes absolutely no sense, it only works if the dungeon isn't textured enough or contains no landmarks to orientate yourself. I think a group of adventurers would recognize they'd been fucking teleported to a different hallway.
Face it, nobody thinks teleporters are fun.

>> No.4311530

>>4297895
Give Dragon Wars a shot, OP. It's basically the fourth Bard's Tale game and vastly superior to the real Bard's Tale series.

There are some nearly-worthless skills so it might be worth looking up which ones are worth investing in.

>> No.4311560

>>4311471
The point isn't always noticing a teleport but realizing where you are.
If you have traps like rotators there's no reason to trust landmarks.

>> No.4311578

>>4311471
It's a video game. Might as well bitch about why Mario can't walk around pipes.

>> No.4312002

>>4311427
>artificial difficulty
The classic retreat of the eternally butthurt.

>> No.4312005

>>4311578
>inb4 even more excuses trying to refute this

>> No.4312006

>>4311471
>Face it, everyone thinks exactly like me.

>> No.4312580
File: 297 KB, 800x596, wizardrycharacters.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4312580

been working on my game!
you can create characters now!

>> No.4312598

>>4310947
I went into Bard's Tale blind and thought I just sucked hard.

>> No.4312686

>wizardry 1
>two floors down getting ready to map out the dreaded floor 3
>one ok fighter, one fighter very close to lordship, a samurai, a mage, a cleric, and Frank (who I only use to ID and disarm traps), all around level seven except for the samurai, who I'd just rolled
>grind on the first two floors until the Sam's around level 6 and ready to rest
>run into five highwaymen on the first floor (fucking really NES? Highwaymen on the first fucking floor?)
>fine by me I don't know shit
>fight goes smoothly
>Lord Bigg gets missed, kills one
>Yojimbo gets hit for one damage, also kills one
>Glorfin casts katino, all but one fall asleep, that's fine it's gonna be easy anyway
>Sir Danny gets hit for four damage
>Sir Danny has been decapitated
>oh fuck I didn't even know that shit could happen
>go back to the church and attempt to revive Danny
>turns to ash and ash revival also fails
>roll Dan II, who's got way better stats thanks to me being smarter about bonus rolls

>go for another expedition helping Dan II catch up
>go down to B2 after learning that Creeping Coins? drop good exp with less risk
>eventually get into a fight with five clerics and one highwayman, Dan II's around lvl 5
>focus on the highwayman while Glorfin Katinos the clerics
>highwayman goes first
>hits Dan II for 2 damage
>Dan II has been decapitated
>clerics leave a chest behind
>Frank, who's never fucked up a disarm since day 1, identifies a crossbow trap
>easy, I don't even need to succeed
>turns out to be poison gas
>Aly, my cleric, only has enough magic to cure 2 party members's poison
>manage to stumble back to floor 1 with only Yojimbo and Lord Bigg dying
>luckily manage to revive all three of my dead characters with the last of my money

I'm terrified of turning the game back on tonight. RIP Sir Danny.

>> No.4312818

>>4310947
>I actually used a book of graph paper to map out dungeons in Bard's Tale 2.
I literally bought a book of graph paper a couple of days ago just to play blobbers properly.

>> No.4312851

>>4312580
I really don't like having text feedback telling me which way I'm moving. That seems entirely redundant and rather annoying. If you're ever planning to release this game I'd look into making that feature optional.

Another thought:
>confirm with 'DELETE' key
u wot m8?

>> No.4312852

>>4312851
wizardry has very small arrows that flash briefly

maybe he should do it that way

>> No.4312858

>>4312852
I don't think the player really needs any feedback for movement. I mean, you press the key you have bound to forward, is there any reason to assume you moved in any direction other than forward?

>> No.4313120

>>4312598


Nah those were hard games to start off in. BT2 especially.

I've got the old book of graph paper around somewhere in my "attic graveyard of pc parts and crap going back 30 years" and if I run across it I'll try to post some pics of the insane graphing and scribbled notes from back then.

>> No.4313134

>>4312818


It's grindy but works!

BT3 had an automap feature...much much easier than the earlier games. Still very clunky though.

>> No.4313449
File: 83 KB, 640x480, 895795-the-inside-world-windows-3-x-screenshot-some-items-are-hidden.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4313449

This game torments me. The 3 level Shareware version is easily found, but the 10 level Professional version is nowhere, and unpurchasable.

>> No.4313725

>>4312598
Bard's Tale 1 in particular has an extremely bullshit rough start.

>> No.4313739

>>4312686
>level 7
Bamatu is an extremely useful spell you should cast in every battle that looks even remotely scary. Learn to love that spell. Also, while Katino is handy early on, try switching to heavy damage spells when you start getting them. Sleep can both miss and wear off relatively quickly, the damage spells at least heavily injures what they fail to kill outright.

Wizardry is not a game where you conserve your spells, it's a game where you go in guns blazing because it's going to be either you or them.

>> No.4313835

>>4312851
I will probably throw in a bunch of options as deevelopment comes to a close, akin to how Grimrock lets you play with automapping or no automapping. The genre is defenitly split between people who want things very clear and people who want to figure things out on their own.

>> No.4314187

i find it weird that there's no modern port of the wizardry games on steam

>> No.4314297

>>4313739
Oh way ahead of you with bamatu; I always go defensive with anything, and yeah it's great, especially since it seems to stack with maporfic. I'll be less conservative with my mage though.
One question. Will aging be a problem even if I just use the stables? Stables don't give me any particular time frame so I have no idea how long they're in there.

>> No.4314358

>>4312858
When you get into a darkness zone it's irritating if you're not sure if you pushed the key or might have bumped the button or something. That's partly on me for playing Wizardy on a tablet but still.

>> No.4314420
File: 19 KB, 142x217, FireShot Screen Capture #144 - '[Shichiten Battou (Miyasaka Takaji)] Runemaster wa Dekiru Ko_ (Etrian Odyssey_' - exhentai_org_s_9420b37221_1122694-25.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4314420

Which old-school blobber has the most intricate combat mechanics?

>> No.4314450

>>4314297
One stay in the stables ages you a week I think, same as all the other places. Since it doesn't heal you, you'll only stay a week at a time, so it never stacks up to anything that becomes relevant.

>> No.4314468

>>4314420
Grim-Wah!

>> No.4314516

>>4314450
>One stay in the stables ages you a week I think, same as all the other places.
Stables only age you by one day, since you only recover MP (which ultimately renders other inns pointless)
>>4314297
If you have a healer you have no need to rest anywhere but the stables. Aging is a real cunt later on if you waste time at inns.

>> No.4314534

>>4314516
Stables don't recover MP, returning to the surface from the dungeon recovers MP. Stables are for gaining levels when your exp is past a benchmark.

>> No.4314560

>>4314187
There's 5&6 I thought? Got them cheap as hell not long ago. I wanna say 5-8 are all on there.

>> No.4314594

>>4314560
6-8

i wish the older ones got ported

>> No.4314652

>>4314534
The console versions don't recover MP automatically, iirc.

>> No.4314775

>>4314594
They got remade for Windows. The Japanese are just keeping them for themselves instead of letting others license them.

>> No.4314780

>>4314775
knowing how good the japanese are with PC games, they probably don't even run anymore

besides the interface looks like shit

>> No.4314886
File: 482 KB, 796x640, updated.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4314886

fancy new menu. You should be able to view the players skills soon... then will head on to seeing if I can get the game to recognize weapons and armor from a spreadsheet...

>> No.4314905

>>4314652
NES here. They don't.

>> No.4314907

>>4314905
>NES
don't play that, the AC system is broken

>> No.4314919

>>4314907
Too late. Already on floor 7

>> No.4314925

>>4314886
>>4312580
>>4307064
This is pretty cool, Anon. Are you porting Wizardry or making an original game in the style?

>> No.4314980

>>4314187
1-5 are in some kind of permanent legal limbo because Sir-Tek didn't like paying its designers royalties.

At least the translated famicom and psx ports of 1-5 are really good.

>> No.4315425
File: 26 KB, 350x200, unearthed arcana.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4315425

>>4312818
One time when you're leafing through all of your pages trying to locate yourself and maybe to remember just where you heard that elf lord's name before you will realize you've become this guy.

>> No.4315431

>>4314919
>Entering floor 7
Haven't you found the elevators yet?

>> No.4315603

>>4302583
>I'm looking to give each of the Wizardry, Ultima, and M&M games a try since they're the most influential and I want see how they evolved over time
>plays remakes
Imagine I posted an image of a drooling retard.

>> No.4316143

I've been trying to do a no guide play through of the translated famicom version of wizardry 5 since I could never get far in the snes one as a kid, and man I've already lost.

How were you supposed to legitimately find the battery? I combed the first 5 floors and gave up halfway through the sixth since I started getting paranoid that the translation cut some dialogue or something.

>> No.4316253

>>4315431
>not exploring every floor
Go back to your walkthroughs, kid.

>> No.4317317

>>4312818
Just use Excel yo.

>> No.4317323

>>4317317
I have PTSD from Excel.

>> No.4317483

>>4315431
Of course I have, but exploration is half the game.

>> No.4317523

>>4317483
There's also no way to know if the floors contain anything you might want unless you explore them properly.

>> No.4318218

I'm playing Wiz 5 right now, and what the hell is this teleporter-like thing past the hurkle beast?
Enemies on every floor choice rape the shit out of me, even though I've got 3 (buff as fuck)Samurai, a Wizard, a Cleric, and a Ninja.

>> No.4318273

>>4318218
>even though I've got 3 (buff as fuck)Samurai, a Wizard, a Cleric, and a Ninja.
Samurai lack in defense compared to fighters and lords. If you really want to roll with them you need to use their spells to utmost effectiveness.
Only one healer also sounds a bit risky to me.
Did you reclass your thief to a ninja or did you import one from another game?

>> No.4318278

>>4318273
After a great deal of work, I rolled him legitimately.
I though the Wizard would be fine as a secondary source of healing.

>> No.4318310

>>4317323
I shudder when I see Excel used for databases.
I can't even imagine is being used for mapping.

>> No.4318321

>>4318278
Are you playing the SNES version and with wizard you mean bishop? Bishops are complete trash unless you reach unrealistic levels and even then they are worse than multiclassing priest and mage. They gain new spells every 4 levels compared to 3 for samurai and 2 for mage, priest and lord and they require more XP than priest or mage as well.
In 1-3 you can use them to identify but in 5 they gimped even that with the chance to get frightened.
You are basically lacking a source for the critical mage spells to determine encounters in a single round.

>> No.4318323

>>4318321
Yeah, I'm playing the SNES version.
Well fuck, should I re-class this guy to a Mage then?

>> No.4318328

>>4318323
No. Make a new character with maximum IQ and Vitality and make him into a mage. Having a mage that can cast a few DIOS is pointless when he only has the minimum amount of HP himself.

>> No.4318330

>>4318328
Okay, thanks for the advice.

>> No.4318382

>>4318218
That's the teleport to levels 2-5, and you're going to get your ass kicked until you figure out what monsters are just going to wreck you if you let them live a turn.

Also I hope you've been making decent maps, the game gets really cryptic around there and you're going to have a real good time figuring out the clues it gives you if you're forgetting where everything is.

>> No.4318395

>>4318382
I have a pretty nice map of Floor 1 and the pit.
I didn't even realize there was a spell that showed you a map until I was almost done with floor 1...

It kind of sucks having to write down what all the spells do, but the grid size on my graph paper is pretty small so there's plenty of room for those types of notes.

>> No.4318424

>>4318395
Same, I can't ever remember what more than 10 spells do. It's kind of annoying but I really like how old rpgs have abstract naming conventions and reagents and shit like that, when everything's just laid out it takes some of the fun out of magic systems.

Also is this your first Wizardry game?
If you play 1 after this it's going to seem like nothing, 5 gets kind of crazy.

>> No.4318425

>>4318424
Yeah, it's my first one.
How are the NES and SNES versions of Wizardry 1? I started playing 5 because I have a SNES emulator on my Vita and I heard the SNES version is better than the others.

>> No.4318439

Lets say I've never played a game like those itt, but want to try it and not end up ripping hair out of my head.
What title would you recommend me?

>> No.4318442

>>4318439
Etrian Odyssey games are relatively gentle dungeon crawlers.

>> No.4318467

>>4318442

not retro

>> No.4318472

>>4311370
But... some of those already have an automap?

>>4318439
Shining in the Darkness is super chill

>> No.4318473

>>4318467
True, but it does look interesting
>>4318442
Thanks, gave it a look on JewTube and it looks very inviting and colorful in typical japanize manner. Hopefully emulation will work decently to play on my laptop.

>> No.4318474

>>4318467
There aren't very many gentle dungeon crawlers, and even fewer still are retro.

>>4318473
I think DS emulation shouldn't be too demanding

>> No.4318639

>>4318472
Checked it out, pretty simple and straightforward.
Drawing a map is surprisingly fun.
Encounter rates are slightly annoying, especially when its 3 slime ooze every two steps, but what can you do. I have great hopes for getting some kind of aoe magic somewhat soon just to clear those weakest mobs when they appear in groups.
Thanks for recommending it.

>> No.4318660

>>4318424
The spells are explained in the manual. It's partially copy protection.

>> No.4318667
File: 21 KB, 296x336, Darklandscover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4318667

Is there an end to Darklands or is it kind of open ended? I'm interested in it, but I only really like games I can actually finish.

Long game? Difficult game?

>> No.4318693

>>4318473
if only the DS games are available to you, I suggest you play 3. 1 and 2 don't have a connected plot and are considerably harder unless you know about the broken skills.

>> No.4318746
File: 40 KB, 523x384, 1400524974323.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4318746

Not retro but for anyone who enjoys classic dungeon crawlers I absoluty can't suggest The Dark Spire enough. Great art, music, and style that celebrates classic dungeon crawlers. It even has a classic mode that make it look like a classic dungeon crawler like the OP.

The closest thing to a flaw is that if you want a physical copy it will cost you about $60-70. But emulation exists so I suggest just doing that.

>> No.4318750
File: 442 KB, 1212x2368, 37cf947c9e8f1e14e226a3118b900757.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4318750

What are some dungeon crawlers with a non high fantasy setting? Only SMT comes to mind.

>> No.4318775

>>4318395
>but the grid size on my graph paper is pretty small so there's plenty of room for those types of notes.
Just wait until you hit the later floors. Floor 4 is 80x40.

>> No.4319112

>>4318639
And I just got shredded by kaisercrab. I guess Ill have to explore everything else, get gold and better equipment and try again.

>> No.4319423

>>4318750
Might & Magic sort of isn't

>> No.4319804
File: 127 KB, 256x192, dungeon-scrolling.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4319804

>>4318750
If you're going to count SMT then Phantasy Star 1 counts as well. It's got a great spacey sci-fi with fantasy elements setting.

>> No.4319825

>>4318750
Waxwork has a horror theme, but that's real time if that matters. There's also Legacy: Realm of Terror but I never played it. Phantasy Star 1 might count, its about 50%+ dungeon crawling and it's partly sci fi.

>> No.4319948

>>4318775
My graph paper is 80x64, so I'll have 3/8 of the paper for notes still.

>> No.4320290

It's not retro, but has anybody played Wizardry Empire II? It was recently translated, it's on PC, with mouse support and all that. Would it be a good starting point in Wizardry experience?

>> No.4320331

>>4318667
It has a main quest and an ending, but most of the game is a nonlinear open world.

>> No.4320335

>>4319804
PS1 isn't that much of a dungeon crawler.

>> No.4320572

>>4320290
>It's not retro
Then get out.

>> No.4321094

>>4318746
>The Dark Spire
I never did finish that thing but imo the fake retro mode looks better than the default graphics.

Any comfy/semi-casual crawlers for NES or GB or even TG16? Basically anything that emulates decently on a DS.

>> No.4321480

>>4321094
Haven't played it, but I've heard good things about Double Dungeons for the TG16.
The NES has Wizardry 1-2 and Swords and Serpents, at least.

>> No.4321804

>>4318425
The snes and psx versions are all really good. AC straight up doesn't work in the nes version and you can't export your party to 2 and 3, but it's not unplayable or anything.

>>4320290
I'd be surprised if anyone's played it except for that depressed brazilian on rpgcodex who plays untranslated jp wizardry clones and shit like that.

>> No.4321823

>>4321094

The NES version of Might and Magic 1 is not that bad.

>> No.4321873

>>4321804
What to play if you want more Wizardry then?

>> No.4321892

>>4321873
just stare at the grimoire steam page with a gun to your head like everyone else.

>> No.4321905

>>4321873
elminage

>> No.4321906

>>4321873
Have you played Wizards & Warriors? Not the NES one, the PC one that isnt really retro.

>> No.4322163

>>4320335
No more or less than SMT is, hence why I'd recommend it to someone willing to stretch the defenition far enough to include it.

>> No.4322294

How bis is one tile in Wizardry anyway? You can simultaneously fight, like, 45 monsters.

>> No.4322312

>>4322294
You only face 18 monsters in the front row and those are typically small shit like Creeping Coins.
Most fights happen in rooms, not in a single square.

>> No.4322408

>>4318746
>health increased by 1
Fuck this. Restarting every time you want to level up is ridiculous even by DRPG standards.

>> No.4322436

>>4322408
If it's like Wizardry it actually normalizes your health, so if you get a huge health increase you'll just get +1s for a few levels after that. It's anti save scumming.

>> No.4322637

>>4322294
>>4322312
Bard's Tale 1 has a rather notorious square where you fight 396 berserkers at once.

>> No.4323816

>>4322163
I dunno, why isn't SMT one?

>> No.4323841

>>4323816
If an RPG has an explorable worldmap then it's not a dungeon crawler.

>> No.4323849

>>4323841
the world map's only role in SMT is to connect dungeons

>> No.4323939

>>4323841
So we're ruling out every Might & Magic, well okey dokey then.

>>4320335
The dungeon crawling might be a bigger part of the game than the overworld

>> No.4324093

>>4323939
>The dungeon crawling might be a bigger part of the game than the overworld
It certainly is. It's very much like SMT in that regard, so I thought by including one you'd naturally include the other.

>> No.4324196
File: 37 KB, 948x501, ancardia.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4324196

>>4323841
>If an RPG has an explorable worldmap then it's not a dungeon crawler.

Modality isn't really that important when determining genres.

>This game has a main menu? What the fuck is this, a text adventure?

>> No.4324434
File: 2.05 MB, 500x321, 1507740483279.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4324434

>>4318746
>bought copy for $25
>shipped from a game store to mailbox
>raw fucking cartridge
>not even a fucking bag for improv
>have to keep it in one of my other game cases and have the other game in the 3DS
>it still distracts me

>> No.4325845

>>4322436
Either I had a run of bad luck or that wasn't happening, could be either I guess?

>> No.4325875

>>4325845
In Wizardry every class has a different hit dice. Fighters and Lords roll d10, Priests and Samurai roll d8, Thieves, Bishops and Ninja roll d6 and Mages roll d4.
Every levelup the game rolls as many die as your new level. Then you add the CON bonus which is 3 extra HP per level at 18 CON.
If the end result is higher than your current maximal HP then it becomes your new maximum HP. Otherwise your maximum HP increases by 1.

>> No.4327537

>>4324434
>>have to keep it in one of my other game cases and have the other game in the 3DS
But DS cases have that spare game slot, plus wtf get one of those little magazine cart holder things for like $15, plus get a flash cart

Oh and here's some massive autism: database of 1st person grid-based crawlers, in case you're wondering if there are any for Wonderswan or whatever: http://dungeoncrawlers.org/

>> No.4327616
File: 435 KB, 480x2160, Wizardry Empire.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4327616

Wizardry Empire had some really strange enemies on the last floor.

>> No.4327650

>>4327616
is this part of the gaiden series?

>> No.4327698

>>4327650
No, they were made by different companies.

>> No.4327875

>>4298456
When I recommend the genre, I start people with rogue.
Minimalist, so there's not much to learn, but it encompasses the jist.

The manual is pretty clear http://www.unix.com/man-page/all/6/rogue/
all it fails to cover are "throwing is really good" and "running out of food screws you."

>> No.4329114

>>4327537
Neat.

>> No.4329430

Is there some editor for Wizardry I (for the dos version at best) to get 18 points? Because rerolling characters takes too much time.

>> No.4329539

>>4329430
You can use Artmoney to edit the number of remaining points
http://www.artmoney.ru/
Or play one of the many console ports that make rerolling characters faster.

By the way here are the exact probabilities for each roll:
7 points = 22.5%
8 points = 22.5%
9 points = 22.5%
10 points = 22.5%
17 points = 2.25%
18 points = 2.25%
19 points = 2.25%
20 points = 2.5%
27 points = 0.25%
28 points = 0.25%
29 points = 0.25%

So you only have to roll ~13 times on average to get 18 or more points.

>> No.4329574

>>4329539
Has anybody ever rolled above 20 in the computer versions of Wizardry 1?
I've rolled hundreds of times and never seen a 27, 28 or 29.

>> No.4329823

>>4329574
3-in-400 chance.

>> No.4329883

>>4329574
I went crazy and got a 28 or something in Wizardry 6.

Which didn't even matter since you just multiclass and reset your stats one million times in that game anyway.

>> No.4330039
File: 30 KB, 500x254, SMTII.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4330039

>>4327616
They seem cool.

This may sound weird but monsters are actually a huge aspect of rpgs for me. I love seeing all the weird monsters and other things standing in my way. If a game's selection of monsters bores me I probably just drop it.

>> No.4330747

>>4329539
>artmoney.ru
That name though. But thanks I will try out this program. I could probably try to hex edit it myself, but I haven't done something like this in like 15 years.

>> No.4331439

>>4300746
>The encounter rate in the first one is absolutely absurd
It's fixed in the GBA/PS1 port but neither have an english translation (though there are talks on patching the GBA version recently)

>> No.4331461

>>4331439
>GBA version
that's easily one of the worst though, why not hack the PS1 version

>> No.4331463

>>4331461
GBA version is literally the PS1 version ported. Apparently the PS1 version is a nightmare to work with and they developed tools already to work with the GBA version

>> No.4331484

>>4331463
It's not. It has much worse audio and the dungeons are just awful to play through (they somehow look and run worse than the SNES version).

>> No.4331513

Recommend me one of these here old dungeon crawly games.

>> No.4331527
File: 54 KB, 591x612, Wizardry.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4331527

>>4331513
Have you played the classics already?

>> No.4331540

>>4331527
I have not. I'm considering going through Might and Magic 1 but am debating on which version to play. I was hoping to play the NES version because it has amazing presentation for an 8-bit console game, but (and I know this verges on being autistically dumb) I got put off by it having automap, as I was quite into the idea of making my own paper maps for it but I probably wouldn't bother if the game had a built in mapping feature.

So I'm still looking for something to play. Possibly the DOS version of M&M, unless there's anything else I should be looking at first.

>> No.4331646
File: 32 KB, 252x363, Ultima_III_Exodus_cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4331646

>>4331513

Ultima III is a good standalone

>> No.4332557

>>4327616
Okay, the Thought-Born Thing is literally just Cthulhu. I'm pretty sure they were going for a Lovecraft theme here.

>> No.4332980

>>4331513
>>4331527
>>4331540
Wizardry 1, Bard's Tale 1 and Might & Magic 1 are the three absolute must-plays. Get one of the early computer versions of it, the console versions are usually either shitty or casualized.

>> No.4333156

>>4298732
It's even comfier than wireframe wizardry, yeah. Comfiest game for me right now is Wizardry Gaiden, though, I somehow find it super-immersive to play a dungeon crawler on an ancient monochrome gameboy.

...modded with a backlight, though, I'm not a barbarian.

>> No.4333276

>>4298456
Roguelikes are cool, but it's an apples-and-oranges comparison. Dungeon crawlers are all about learning the layouts of the dungeons, until you can kind of get inside the developer's head and intuitively know when you're heading into a trap. You don't really get those kinds of mindgames in a roguelike.

>> No.4333283

>>4310057
Some people are dumb and spend literally one hundred and twenty nine dollars on a flashcart for their non-advance game boy, and are damn well going to use it.

>> No.4333298

>>4322294
It's totally inaccurate, but I occasionally think of them as large tiles, like a square mile or so, of underground cavern with weird terrain and shit. "Characters" might be individuals, or a small group, so your tanks are bodyguards for the wizard or whatever, or the priest has a bunch of acolytes.

This kind of explains how you have random encounters in tiny rooms? Sort-of?

Yeah it's nonsense, but I can see it working for a game.

>> No.4333309

Total Wizardry newb here, which version of Wizardy 1-3 should I play

I kind of want to try the NES versions, but I don't want to get halfway through the series only to find out that they're somehow casualized or watered down compared to the PC original.

Also I don't want an automap, because I feel like drawing a map is supposed to be part of the experience.

>> No.4333327

>>4333309
>they're somehow casualized or watered down compared to the PC original.
Welcome to Wizardry. You don't really have to worry about that. Even the Japanese spin-offs prefer fucking the player - jesus christ they still never stopped doing the roll for bonus stats in chargen thing that made you spend ages rerolling your stats for each character.

If anything, the later western Wizardries up to Wizardry 8 are "casualised" by comparison, but nah, not really.

>> No.4333334
File: 270 KB, 800x763, angry_salina_by_scythemantis.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4333334

>>4333156
>modding a Gameboy
>not a barbarian

>> No.4333353

>>4333334
You haven't lived 'til you've played a dmg under the covers with a comfy red backlight.

>> No.4333367

>>4333309
In the NES version, armour does nothing because of a bug. Nobody seems to have a bad thing to say about the SNES or PS versions. By default SNES shows an automap when you cast the location spell, but that can (and should imo) be disabled in the options. I don't know about the PS version.

Wizardy is the best game for map drawing that I know of. It's an actual part of the challenge and not just pointless busywork.

>> No.4333370

>>4333309
Accuracy wise:
Apple II > DOS > PC-98 > PS1 > Windows > SNES > NES > PC-Engine > GBC
Graphic wise:
SNES > PS1 > PC-Engine > GBC > NES > Windows > PC-98 > DOS > Apple II

>> No.4333651

>>4333370
>DOS > PC-98
Explain.

>> No.4333767
File: 11 KB, 640x400, Wizardry PC98.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4333767

>>4333651
The DOS version is not in moonrunes.

>> No.4333781

>>4333767
Press S and you get to the language selection and the main game. Press M if you want to create extra duplicate disks.
And there is no DOS version, both the IBM and the PC98 ports are booters.

>> No.4333803

>>4313725
on my 1st copy of Bard's Tale 1, temples didn't work. you had to entirely rely on spells for healing. that was fun.

>> No.4333809

>>4333803
Don't you automatically heal in the guild?

>> No.4333810

>>4333370
What are the accuracy issues for GBC?

>> No.4333830

>>4333809
No, that would defeat the purpose of temples. At least I don't think so.

>> No.4333849

>>4333810
It has 16x16 maps instead of 20x20 maps.
http://retromeme.nobody.jp/

Then it also has some extra items and the usual consoleport stuff like an automap with Dumapic.

>> No.4333916

>>4333367
It also started that obnoxious shit where all the items get renamed so it's impossible to know what is better than what. When there's no way to see weapon stats, names like "Longsword+2" are a hell of a lot more helpful than "Steel Sword".

>> No.4335071

It might be a highly controversial opinion but I prefer Wizardry style spellcasting over modern spellpoint systems like the ones in Bard's Tale or Might & Magic. It has more strategy and the lower level spells don't become useless.

>> No.4335515

>>4333781
> booters

What does this mean?

>> No.4335518
File: 264 KB, 800x1141, MandM.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4335518

I'm going to try my luck and ask on here again.

Does anyone have an original, first-boot ROM of the Apple II version of Might and Magic I? Every version I've found is either a bad dump or edited in some way (usually the starting team has been removed, edited, or replaced).

I'm glad the DOS version exists and is close enough to the original, but its still not *quite* the same as having the Apple II version, imo.

>> No.4335534

>>4335515
I don't know if they're right, I don't know much about the games in question, but a bunch of really old games used to be a bit too much for a computer to run alongside the actual OS, so you'd have to boot directly into the game off a floppy.

>> No.4335540

>>4335534
Yeah, googling tells me Wizardry was one of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_booter

Seriously, this used to be a thing.

>> No.4335591

>>4335071
I agree, you can't get by just spamming whatever your current best attack spell is. I like that you don't automatically choose another target if the guy you're attacking dies, too, so I'm probably a weirdo.

>> No.4336084

>>4335540
This should be brought back, imo. Imagine, a game like that would run regardless if you use Windows or Linux.

>> No.4336767

>>4336084
It would not be popular for several reasons. One, that's a lot of redundant code to include in your game, you have to include all the libs usually provided by the OS installation, potentially causing license drama & drastically increasing file sizes (what are you going to store the game on? It would need a dedicated HDD!). Secondly, modern gamers would hate it because they could not multitask. It's just not a practical idea in this day and age.

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