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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4227239 No.4227239 [Reply] [Original]

Was Doom 2 graphically outdated? Compare it to System Shock 1 on the left which came out in 1994.

>> No.4227254

System Shock just looks really good.

>> No.4227261

>>4227239
Yeahhhhhh....uh, care to guess how many frames per second the average PC could render System Shock back then?

There is a reason why it's popularity didn't start picking up until the LATE 90s...

>> No.4227271

Doom 2 had a decent amount of on screen enemies. Think of levels like the Suburbs.

>> No.4227274

>>4227261
I played it on a 486 and it was fine what are you talking about?

>> No.4227281

>>4227274
It was a fucking slideshow on a 486 unless you turned down all the settings.

>> No.4227284

>>4227239
I suppose you could technically argue that it is, but I think it still holds up well.

>> No.4227291

>>4227281
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoD0KNEdXnY
looks fine to me.
Look I know your probably young and your attention span is nuked to death from being over stimulated but this was very acceptable in 1994

>> No.4227306

did System Shock have areas like map15 of Doom 2

>> No.4227358

>>4227281
>It was a fucking slideshow on a 486

i ran it perfectly fine on my 486 dx2 66 back when it was released.

>> No.4227365

>>4227358
I did as well, fucking early 20's youtube education people need to stop posting

>> No.4227372

>>4227358
To be fair to him, System Shock still felt low framerate even on a Pentium 3, not because it actually was.

>> No.4227375

>>4227239
I see what you're trying to say, and you may be right, but I much prefer the way Doom 2 looks. There's just something very charming and timeless about 2.5D textures and sprites. While to me, System Shock looks like shit.

>> No.4227376

>>4227372
That is an unfair comparison, of course it felt slow to say System shock 2 on a Pentium 3 with a voodoo3 card.
Also people playing the new version on steam are forgetting it had no mouse look and the new version adds a lot of modern features

>> No.4227538

>>4227239
This screenshot does not represent what either game looked like when they were new...

>> No.4227573
File: 50 KB, 640x480, 363847-the-terminator-future-shock-dos-screenshot-hi-res-mode-made.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4227573

>Doom 2
>late 1994

>Terminator: Future Shock
>early 1995

But yeah, this happened. Quick sequels or quick games using the same engine, rather than spending time and ressources to make a new engine. Remember, there were still Build games released in 1998, which is when Half-Life came out.

>> No.4227586

>>4227573
At least Build engine games still looked better than that blurry Quake shit.

>> No.4227601

>>4227271
The Underworld engine could handle dozens of enemies.
I'd guess it started culling with 255 objects on screen.

>> No.4228112

>>4227586
they really didn't
redneck rampage looks like ass compared to games with good brushwork

>> No.4228142
File: 115 KB, 800x600, ridesagain3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228142

>>4228112
Rides Again looks amazing. RR and its sequel have the highest texture resolution of any Build game I think.

Also they really knew how to go around the engine's limits, like mixing sector/wall shading with shading directly applied on textures. Just an example.

>> No.4228146
File: 190 KB, 800x600, rr1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228146

>>4228112
The only things that stick out for me are those "photorealistic" sprites. Like the lamp on the desk here. Those look ugly.

>> No.4228216

>>4227239

Doom 2 is just an expansion with more levels and new enemies. It uses the same engine. It's just a cheap cash grab. Quake was the next real game that they worked on and that pushed 3D.

>> No.4228224

>>4227239
there were a few more advanced games at the time like nascar and some flight sims and games that came out soon after made it seem dated pretty quickly

>> No.4228274
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4228274

Doom 2 looks great and is hugely technically proficient. What are you fags talking about?

>> No.4228534

early id software had a tick-tock game release strategy where they would make a new game, release it as shareware / mail-order, then churn out a slightly updated version with new maps as a retail release. doom 2 was never supposed to be massively different or improved from doom, it was just a different version they would sell directly to retailers and have on store shelves.

>> No.4229349

>>4228274
Doom 2's color palette sucked balls compared to 1

>> No.4229356

>>4227239
No shit seriously doom is great but plenty of other games had better graphics mostly though in the rpg or platformer genres until quake and turok

>> No.4229359

outdated? well of course, but does it still hold up? absolutely. like Diablo 2, Zelda Windwaker, or even Grim Fandango, theyre all pretty old games but they have style and a good unique theme that make them still look good.

If Deus Ex got a modern face lift with the same mechanics, itd introduce so many kids to great non-linear fps/rpg games

>> No.4229360

>>4229349
those Sandy levels really crushed your spirit eh?

>> No.4229386

System Shock was literally just corridors, though. I doubt it'd have had the same level of detail if it had big wide open spaces like in Doom 2.

>> No.4229419

>>4229360
sandy petersen
because all his fucking levels are sand color

>> No.4229443

>>4229360
I still think Sandy's maps are underrated. They're uglier, and less straight forward than Romero's maps, but I found the gameplay more creative and interesting.

>> No.4229521

>>4227261
>>4227281
Works fine on my pure 1994's 486DX2 66MHz

>> No.4230174

>>4227239
Ss1 does slopes, some neat lighting stuff and 3d rooms/platforms. But they all need to be built cubicly, and they're a bit limited. Doom 2 could have rooms that were any shape, render large distances, etc.

They're completely different types of games though.

>> No.4230224

>>4227239
You're cherry picking

>> No.4230341

>>4227239
>Was Doom 2 graphically outdated
Doom 2 was just an expansion pack for the original Doom.
Now you know what was graphically outdated as shit? Shadow Warrior.

>> No.4230580

slopes

>> No.4230589 [DELETED] 

>>4227261
>uhhhhh
>two ellipses
SUMMER
IS
OVER

when are these "people" going back?

>> No.4230608

>>4230589
>You don't write like me
>REEEEEEEEE
This is what autism looks like.

>> No.4231980

>>4227239
Compare Doom 1 to Ultima Underworld, which was a first-person RPG with slopes and levels and jumping and all kinds of cool terrain.

Now remember that Doom was designed to run smoothly and fast, and deliberately sacrificed level geometry and complex gameplay systems to that end.

Hell, Wolfenstein 3D came out around the same time as Ultima Underworld, and that didn't even have as much 3D as Doom 1 - everything was built on square tiles with flat ground and sky. But it was fast.

>> No.4231981

>>4229360
SUDDENLY, A CACODEMON

>> No.4231982

>>4230608
Uhhh... Ableist and sexist much?

>> No.4231986

>>4231980
Ultima Underworld dropped features like dynamic lighting in order to run better.

>> No.4233189

>>4227239
Important thing to understand that System Shock and Ultima Underworld look better than Doom/Doom 2 because they had lower framerate.

At the same time, kinda. Doom 2 engine was a year old in 1994, and had basically zero graphical upgrades between 93 and 94.
So technically, yeah.
However, few people could really run Doom at decent framerate when it came out, so the extra year just allowed people to upgrade their computers to play Doom 2 the way it was meant to.

>> No.4233190

>>4227291
"acceptable" and "perfectly smooth" are different things.

>> No.4233196

>>4227573
I mean, that was the winning id formula. Break new ground with an amazing new shareware title, then release a retail sequel that polishes up the level design a year later.
Catacomb 3D and Catacomb Abyss, Wolf 3D and Spear of Destiny - and Doom and Doom 2. If it worked and made them rich, why should they stop?

>> No.4233239

>>4228142
>Rides Again looks amazing.
those pics look awful lol

>> No.4233243

>>4229349
it's the same colour palette douchebag

>> No.4233365

>>4227239
Doom 2 was basically a mission pack for Doom 1, it only had new content but the engine was mostly unchanged. Same how Spear of Destiny was just new levels but no new additions to Wolf3d.

I remember a journalist at the time pointing this out, and commented on it that this is par course with Id because they leave the big guns for new projects not sequels, and that they don't need to rely on sequels cause whatever they release will sell like hotcakes anyway. This was still in 1994, mind you...

>>4227271
This. Doom had insanely big crowd fights, the kind of which were extremely rare in FPS games since.

>>4227573
>Remember, there were still Build games released in 1998, which is when Half-Life came out.

Fuck you, some of those late 90s Build games were the most creative FPS games ever made. Blood, Redneck Rampage, Shadow Warrior...

>> No.4233493

>Comparing games by their release date and not by the time their engine entered development.

>> No.4233497

>>4227239
Marathon was much more advanced and better-looking than either. Superior physics engine, pseduo-3D which allowed floors over other floors, etc. It did lack System Shock's slopes, but those were never used for much aside from the indoor ski slope part.

>> No.4233589

>>4233497
Yes but it was mostly empty hallways and it under utilized its scenery capabilities. Remember: Marathon is built upon the texture mapping engine of Pathways Into Darkness, and PiD was made on a Mac IIc 68030 processor.

>> No.4233625

>>4233589
>Marathon is built upon the texture mapping engine of Pathways Into Darkness
Sorta but the Marathon engine was a total rehaul. PiD didn't even have variable heights.

The game was empty but I think that was in part an aesthetic choice. Marathon 2 has very similar capabilities but they went in the opposite direction artistically with vibrant colors, alien planets, and objects galore.

>> No.4233641

>>4233589
Pretty sure the empty hallways is just a conscious design decision. I dunno, I always thought it was because Marathon was basically the successor to PiD, I mean they even have returning characters. I always felt like Marathon was almost like a dungeon crawler of sorts.

>> No.4233670

>>4227239
No, it is you who are graphically retarded

>> No.4233693 [DELETED] 

guys

>https://kamijou420.deviantart.com/art/Quake-Champions-Classic-DOOM-GUY-For-HUD-701695608

>> No.4234325

Doom 2 was no longer the graphical peak of the industry by 1994, no. But I wouldn't call it 'outdated'.

If we're going to compare visuals, then yeah, System Shock's environments easily top doom's. The level design was, however, limited to a very noticable grid.

System Shock's enemy sprites all fucking suck, too.

>> No.4234447

It's also important to remember that the Doom engine was created by wizards. Focused wizards, so it's not great at stuff they didn't care as much about.