/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4193021]

Is a Capcom-developed Zelda actually one of the best ever made?

>pushed the limits of hardware it was designed for, better than some early SNES/Genesis titles
>perfect art direction
>some of the best music and sound design of the 2D games
>decent story with good characters
>large, well-crafted world filled with secrets and cool places to explore
>great enemy variety
>smartly designed puzzles, rarely challenging but never frustrating or counter-intuitive
>awesome items, especially the slingshot
>the seasons mechanic is the most innovative thing the series has ever done
>decent combat with good bosses
>tons of tangible rewards to find and not just useless rupees, everything from 60+ rings to regular items and upgrades
>the rings actually add depth to the gameplay and are one of the few things ever added to a traditional Zelda game that let you augment your play style akin to an actual RPG
>cool features like being able to grow trees and harvest seeds adds immersion and depth to the gameplay that is uncommon for the series

Overall, just a great game. Audio/visual presentation is on-point, controls are great, gameplay has depth and diversity, dungeons are well designed, great world to explore, everything. I know a lot of people like Link's Awakening, but this is the cream of the crop for me.

[Anonymous No.4193051]

No. I admit they're competently made games, but they're also just... boring. I first tried to play them years ago and I was done after a half hour into each. More recently I purchased both on the 3DS eshop. While I did get farther than before (4th or 5th dungeon on each game) once again I just lost interest. I love Zelda, and with the exception of Phantom Hourglass I've beaten every single other game at least once. I don't know how to describe it other than the Oracles seem to lack a spark that other Zeldas have.

[Anonymous No.4193052]

Seasons has nothing on LA

[Anonymous No.4193059]

IMO it's the 2nd best zelda game (OoT being #1)

It really was a surprisinglly good game. I've poured hours into it. The rings where my favorite part.

[Anonymous No.4193067]

>>4193021
Discount Link's Awakening.

[Anonymous No.4193069]

I like it, i've beaten it twice, and Ages once. Ages just has more minigames than i can stand. I always have had a thing for 2d zelda over 3d though. It's not the best Zelda, I still think LTTP is, followed by some non-retro entries, but its up-there.

[Anonymous No.4193102]

>>4193052
>>4193067
Aside from being better at literally everything, right?

[Anonymous No.4193107]

>>4193021
>puts 30 fucking minutes into the best game in the series
>thinks his opinion matters
Comedy gold.

[Anonymous No.4193110]

>>4193107
meant for>>4193051

[Anonymous No.4193128]

>>4193021
Ages is my favorite. But Seasons had the best items and was prettier due to the season changing.

[Anonymous No.4193135]

>>4193107
>>4193110
Nice reading comprehension, dingus. You clearly missed the part where I said I came back to them.

[Anonymous No.4193136]

>>4193102
seasons left literally no impression on me. played it less than a year ago, hardly remember a thing from it. meanwhile LA is the last great classic zelda game, forming a holy trinity with ALTTP and the original LoZ

[Anonymous No.4193142]

>>4193102
lmao

[Anonymous No.4193263]

>>4193021
I would agree with you, though I do think Ages is better if we're talking both of them. Ages is probably the best 2D Zelda, desu.

[Anonymous No.4193278]

>>4193051
Why do people need to put in PH hate in every Zelda thread, even ones that don't mention it. It's fucking annoying.

[Anonymous No.4193293]

>>4193021
Actual question.

What role did Capcom have in the development of these games?

[Anonymous No.4193295]

>>4193293
They literally developed it.

>>4193142
>lmao
>implying it isn't true

[Anonymous No.4193297]

>>4193059
>IMO it's the 2nd best zelda game (OoT being #1)
>The rings where my favorite part.
My negro.

[Anonymous No.4193325]

>>4193052
>>4193136
>>4193142
Explain how LA > OOS

[Anonymous No.4193350]

>>4193325
Nostalgia.

Anyone who defends LA will feed you a load of subjective shit about "art style", "story" or other meaningless garbage that has no bearing on the actual gameplay, as the two are near-identical aside from OoS being more refined and having just about more of everything.

[Anonymous No.4193402]

>>4193350
A lot of people here will even go as far as claiming the original LA is the definite version and DX being shit. They'll pull arguments out of their arse, but after all, they merely prefer the one they played back in the day.

Most of them probably never played through the oracle games, or just emulated them for half an hour like >>4193051 without their nostalgia goggles on.

[Anonymous No.4193416]

>>4193402
i honestly think seasons is a pretty good game. ages was garbage though. but LA is simply a better game in my opinion. i like the items more (magic rod and bow with bomb arrows instead of a kiddy slingshot). being able to steal from the shop is a very cool feature as well. as for the dungeon design LA is just a more entertaining experience.

but if i am going to be 100% honest to why i so strongly prefer LA over seasons, it is because i like my zelda games really broken. there are so many interesting glitches in LA that gives the game infinite replay value (how about bow wow actually devouring entire cutscenes?). i like sequence breaking the shit out of my games.

and yeah, maybe a little nostalgia as well. but LA objectively has a more classic zelda feel to it, as it was made before the major revamp of the series that came with OoT.

[Anonymous No.4193420]

>>4193416
>magic rod and bow with bomb arrows instead of a kiddy slingshot
There is literally nothing special about the bow other than bomb arrows which are basically just bombs with longer range. The slingshot lets you shoot 5 elemental seeds, each of which does different things and effects enemies/objects in different ways, that is so much fucking cooler.

>being able to steal from the shop is a very cool feature as well.
Wow yeah, being able to steal an item from a shop once or twice and then being referred to as "THIEF" the rest of the game, such a cool feature...

>it is because i like my zelda games really broken
>I like the game because it's a broken piece of shit
lol.

[Anonymous No.4193436]

>>4193420
>he likes the game because its broken what an idiot
the thing is that the brokeness of the game is not noticable to a casual player, and when it breaks, it breaks gracefully. this is also why ALTTP is the uncontested GOAT out of all the zelda games. incredible gameplay and dungeon design + hillariously broken, yet the nothing that in any way affects a casual players experience. endless possibilities, endless fun

[Anonymous No.4193439]

>>4193436
I'm not trying to insult you personally, but you do realize how retarded this argument is, right? You're basically saying the game is good because it falls the fuck apart "gracefully", whatever that means. How a normie experiences the game doesn't really matter, what matters is good game design. If the fun you derive from the game is based in doing things that the designers didn't even intend for you to do, that's bad design. Seasons is a good game because the gameplay is fundamentally solid, not because it's some kind of autistic playground where you can run wild with shitty mechanics. I don't even know what broken gameplay you're referring to in terms of LA, but I can guarantee it doesn't compensate for a poorly designed game.

[Anonymous No.4193448]

>>4193439
no, i understand that this is a very odd sounding argument in favour of a game, but the fact is that the game is a great game even if we dont consider the potential it has as an autistic playground. both you and i know that LA is not poorly designed when played as intended. im simply giving my opinion on why i enjoy the game much more than seasons. fact is that seasons is almost equally broken, with the difference that most glitches lead to softlocks and crashes. this is what i mean by breaking gracefully, as in LA the glitches can be used to enhance the experience rather than the game just crashing.

[Anonymous No.4193452]

How it pushed the hardware? They're nothing special next to Tomb Raider, Alone in The Dark, Cannon Fodder or even Medarot 5.

[Anonymous No.4193468]

>>4193021
>Is a Capcom-developed Zelda actually one of the best ever made?
Yes. Minnish is definitely top tier. The rest are shit though.

[Anonymous No.4193474]

>>4193452
>How it pushed the hardware? They're nothing special next to Tomb Raider, Alone in The Dark, Cannon Fodder or even Medarot 5.
I never said there weren't other good looking GBC games, but that doesn't make the Oracle games any less great looking. Tomb Raider doesn't look better, Alone in the Dark is mostly static, pre-rendered backgrounds with very few moving sprites on screen at once, cannon fodder and medarot are good but they look washed out and low-res. By comparison, Seasons can support a lot of action on screen, big beautiful sprites, vivid colors and clear, crisp textures with beautiful use of shadowing and shading.

[Anonymous No.4193513]

Stale and derivative with none of the mysterious joy of a genuine Nintendo Zelda, desu

[Anonymous No.4193516]

>>4193513
>Stale and derivative with none of the mysterious joy of a genuine Nintendo Zelda, desu
So one of the least conventional Zelda games is "stale and derivative", but the mainline Zelda games which have all been near-identical aren't? What the fuck are you even talking about?

[Anonymous No.4193634]

I mostly agree with you OP, I actually liked the Ages to Seasons and Seasons to Ages system and how much content these games had. Definitely better than Minish Cap which was great but it was short and much less challenging (and I wasn't a fan of the whole wind waker 2D style, to be fully honest).

I wouldn't say it's much better than LA, but it definitely has more polish and content.

[Anonymous No.4194857]

>>4193021
Yes OP, Oracle of Seasons is the GOAT Zelda in every sense of the phrase. It perfectly blends the gameplay of classic Zelda with new, inventive elements that keep the game fresh and interesting. While other Zelda games have done individual things a little better than Seasons, such as freedom of exploration in Zelda 1, no other game has done all of them so well. Everything about the game is of a high quality. It's linear and focused, yet the world is large and densely-packed with secrets. The combat is simplistic, but the many combat-oriented items and ability to equip dozens of different rings gives the game more variety than any other 2D game in the series. On top of all this, you have beautiful graphics with an amazingly diverse color palette (especially when you take into account the limited hardware the devs had to work with) and great art direction all around.

Personally, Seasons and Ages are my two favorite Zelda games, right up there with Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past as the best in the series. It's a shame that newer Zeldas didn't replicate the style of the Oracle games, but yes, I agree, Capcom really did deliver the best experience.

[Anonymous No.4195841]

>>4193468
minish was so fucking linear though

shit like paths that get blocked by construction or people sleeping until you fulfill some arbitrary goal like fighting vaati in a particular spot

all kinds of great secrets in the overworld, except they can't be unlocked without fucking kinstone fusions half the game later

[Anonymous No.4195890]

>>4193513
I honestly agree. You can only do the same thing so often. And it just doesn't leave as much of an impression regardless of how solid it might be

[Anonymous No.4195897]

>>4193021
drunk right now
my first zelda, second only to LA:DX

[Anonymous No.4195995]

>>4193420
>Wow yeah, being able to steal an item from a shop once or twice and then being referred to as "THIEF" the rest of the game, such a cool feature...
literally G A M E C H A N G I N G

[Anonymous No.4196038]

>>4193474
>with beautiful use of shadowing and shading.
what

[Anonymous No.4196121]

I agree, however I'm very biased because it was one of the few games I owned on GBC and I explored it top to bottom.

However, having replayed it more recently I still think it holds up very well.
It's one of the few Zelda games that really captures the same spirit of exploration that made the original great. On top of that the world is both large and incredibly dense. Seasons were a great way to add variety to existing areas. Rings remain perhaps the best collectable the series has had. Seeds were novel, I remember trying the mystery seed on everything I could. Animal buddies were more questionable, but at least added some reply-value. Then there's other details like Subrosia that could be seen as unnecessary, but bulk up the amount of things there are to do in Seasons, and it's a better game for them.

[Anonymous No.4198067]

>>4195841
Kinstones were stupid but, Zelda has always had things blocking various dungeons up to a point. It is more linear than it's other incarnations though but it's still not as shitty as oracles were.

[Anonymous No.4198084]

Just gonna copy and paste from one the previous threads.

You don't even hit the first dungeon by 8 minutes into Ages. Literally six minutes through LA you're waist deep through the first dungeon.
Comparatively, LA gives you basic freedom ~30 seconds into starting a new game.

Unjustifiable.

[Anonymous No.4198105]

>>4195841
>minish was so fucking linear though
Link Between Worlds proved that just because you're open does not mean you're better

[Anonymous No.4198106]

>>4193474
This is just simple palette swap and some tile changes here and there.
They look good but don't push the system.
Tomb Raider had amazing animation and every other game I cited had more colors on the screen.

[Anonymous No.4198112]

>>4198106
>every other game I cited
Look. I like Medarot 5 or rather all of the games that use the IP no matter what they are. But let's be serious here. It didn't look better than the seasons.

[Anonymous No.4198661]

>>4198084
Wow, WOW totally game changing right there

[Anonymous No.4198673]

>>4193513
>with none of the mysterious joy of a genuine Nintendo Zelda
>genuine Nintendo Zelda
>mysterious joy
I would agree if it weren't for any mainline Zelda post-Oot with the exception of the most recent one being the poster children of "interesting ideas hindered by heavily sloppy execution".

[Anonymous No.4198678]

>>4194857
I basically agree with everything you said here besides
>Oracle of Seasons is the GOAT Zelda in every sense of the phrase

Seasons is my favourite of the gameboy Zeldas too, and all of the gameboy Zeldas are awesome games, but the hardware limitations of the handheld really prevents any one of them from being considered the absolute best in the series. In particular, it's the fact that you can only use two items at a time, and you're gonna want to have your sword in one of the slots most of the time too. It can get pretty annoying to have to keep equipping and unequipping items like roc's feather and the bracelet over and over.

I really think all three gameboy Zeldas need remakes with updated graphics, sound and most importantly, a better controller to play the games on and a control scheme that takes advantage of this.

[Anonymous No.4198689]

>>4198678
Man, I remember seeing this and thinking "wait a minute, is that a DS remake of LA?

And then it wasn't. They could do this. They could.

[Anonymous No.4198707]

>>4198678
>I really think all three gameboy Zeldas need remakes
Why remakes tho? Why not something that follows the spirit of the gameboy Zeldas but does something entirely new in terms of characters, world building, unique gameplay mechanics etc.

In other terms, a spiritual successor that isn't necessarily a new series entry.

[Anonymous No.4198714]

>>4198084
>basic freedom
>getting interrupted by that god damn owl all the time who tells you where to go all the time
It was basically Navi avant-la-lettre. Not to mention how much bullshit the later dungeon designs were (looking at you, face shrine).
Not saying that the beginning of both OoS and OoA were open (they weren't) but from what I remember there was a little more to do in the meantime. The whole item changing "sidequest" (it's actually not a sidequest but something you HAVE to do to progress) doesn't help LA's cause either.

[Anonymous No.4198718]

After ALTTP, LA and assorted games, how do you feel about A Link Between Worlds?

[Anonymous No.4198731]

Anyone else buy one and swap with a buddy who bought the other? These may not be the best zelda games, but seeing my friend at lunch time and linking up to get rings and later swap games kept me motivated through both games.

[Anonymous No.4198732]

>>4198707
For starters it wouldn't have the same developmental team for obvious reasons so the gameplay wouldn't be even remotely the same even if they did try to spin spiritual successor.

[Anonymous No.4198840]

>>4198678
>I really think all three gameboy Zeldas need remakes
yes
>with updated graphics
no
>sound
yes
>a better controller to play the games on and a control scheme that takes advantage of this.
absolutely

[Anonymous No.4198893]

>>4193021
>Is a Capcom-developed Zelda actually one of the best ever made
Yes it is, because Minish Cap is flawless

[Anonymous No.4198897]

>>4198732
>For starters it wouldn't have the same developmental team for obvious reasons
Even if it didn't have much of the same team behind the Oracles games, it doesn't really matter as long as the spearheads behind the work in the first place still has some form of input on the product at hand. Anyway, this 'problem' would also be the case for a hypothetical remake considering a lot of the team behind the Oracle games have since parted with Capcom in one way or another. Really the only guys from that team still involved with Nintendo today would be Adachi, who composes for Pokemon games as of now, and Fujibyashi, who's one of the current directors for the Zeldos now.

>so the gameplay wouldn't be even remotely the same
Why should it be the same however? Is it not possible for something to put a twist on certain elements while still showing a lot of influence from another?

[Anonymous No.4198941]

>>4198718
Rather easy and it's open nature gave way to extremely unintuitive dungeons. The main gameplay gimmick was also rather mediocre.

[Anonymous No.4198948]

>>4198897
I'll summarize my argument instead of going point by point.

It's the reason any spiritual successor never ends up falling in line with expectations. Zelda is no exception. Spirit tracks and (arguably) a link between worlds come to mind. Why should the gameplay be remotely the same? Because if it's not it's not a spirit successor. Keep the gimmick without realizing the logic behind it isn't good and has the risk of missing the point. You would also have to avoid not being risky and actually using different type of subweapons. Something people working with formula would miss altogether.

The main thing to understand is without input from the original team (which you know any spiritual successor wouldn't have) a lot of the things that were good about the original games would be lost or done poorly. Think Castlevania Legends.

[Anonymous No.4200670]

Should I play LA or DX?

[Anonymous No.4201698]

>>4200670
DX, has more content and the core game is identical.

As an aside, OoA/OoS are fantastic. Nice to see a pair of games released that were both distinct but at the same time linked. Worth getting both for the joint game in a second playthrough.

[Anonymous No.4201738]

>>4193021
>Is a Capcom-developed Zelda actually one of the best ever made?

If we're talking about Minish Cap, sure. But the Oracle games are just too autistic for me.

>Ring collecting
>Have to beat both games about 3 or 4 times to unlock all content
>Confusing secrets system
>Confusing sidequests that affect the opposite game, like the Bipin and Blossom sequence
>Absolutely no alteration to Link's sprite, and too much other shit that's lifted directly from Link's Awakening without any touching up
>Basically just glorified ROM hacks
>Fetch quests are even worse than in LA

And it's worth mentioning that the official player's guide is garbage. The secrets system is not explained in sufficient detail.

[Anonymous No.4202302]

>>4201738
>If we're talking about Minish Cap, sure.
Ehh, not really. As I said before, none of the Zeldas past OoT were really any good in execution, only as ideas. BOTW seems to have done away with that though.

[Anonymous No.4202351]

>>4193416
>kiddy slingshot

Watch out, we got a MAN over here.

[Anonymous No.4202590]

>>4201738
This has to be some of the stupidest shit I've ever read in my life.


>Ring collecting
For once a Zelda game actually puts a set of completely optional items in the game that give you various powers, and you find a reason to dislike it.
>Have to beat both games about 3 or 4 times to unlock all content
You mean like all of the rings you don't care about that are, again, totally optional and not integral to the gameplay whatsoever?
>Confusing secrets system
Yeah... it's really not.
>Confusing sidequests
I really don't understand why this is confusing to you.
>Absolutely no alteration to Link's sprite, and too much other shit that's lifted directly from Link's Awakening without any touching up
Because they're practically part of the same series. Nothing needed to be touched up, it looked perfect. Go bitch at Majora's Mask if you want to talk about reused assets.
>Basically just glorified ROM hacks
Pure autism.
>Fetch quests are even worse than in LA
Meaningless, subjective, incorrect.

>And it's worth mentioning that the official player's guide is garbage. The secrets system is not explained in sufficient detail
And this is how I knew you were retarded. Using a fucking official player's guide lol... bud, if you are a 20something manchild that needs an official players guide to 100% this game, I hate to tell you: you are really fucking stupid. I beat this shit when i was 9 years old in 2001 and never used a players guide. Even if you are speaking about using the guide as a kid, your retarded ass should have just gone online and looked it up if it was too confusing for you.

[Anonymous No.4202603]

>>4198106
>This is just simple palette swap and some tile changes here and there.
The point is that the game looks fucking good. It has incredibly vivid colors given the extremely limited hardware it had to work with. Sorry but nothing you just listed looks even half as good as seasons/ages does. Tomb Raider has good animations, but that's it. The enironments are simplistic, lack detail and have a bleak, uninteresting color palette. The only thing impressive about Canon Fodder is the shitty compressed CGI and in every other way it looks like ass. Alone in the Dark is sort of impressive, but it isn't hard to produce pre-rendered still images with barely any moving sprites on screen. Lastly, Medarot 5 is probably the best looking one you mentioned, but no, it does not look better than seasons or ages.

[Anonymous No.4202610]

>>4201738
Lmao look at this faggot. Nitpicking on oracle for stupid shit like "Absolutely no alteration to Link's sprite" and then shills fucking MINISH CAP, which lifts 75% of its visuals straight from a fucking multiplayer minigame, Link's sprite included. Not to mention this retard can't even beat a game made for children without using a fucking player's guide.

What is it about Minish Cap that acts as a magnet for autism? Do they like the bird hat or something?

[Anonymous No.4202660]

>>4198067
oracles were pretty linear but that really started with la

also at least in seasons you could do a couple of the dungeons out of order

[Anonymous No.4202661]

>>4198105
being open doesn't make a zelda game inherently good, but being linear definitely makes it bad

[Anonymous No.4202670]

>>4198673
so fucking sad but i have to agree

i have nostalgia for la and oracles too, and didn't even enjoy alttp on the gba. it took playing zelda 1 for the first time to realize what i was missing.

[Anonymous No.4202673]

>>4202661
If that was the case then LA is kind of bad, right?

[Anonymous No.4202702]

>>4202673
uh, yes?

[Anonymous No.4202714]

>>4202673
>>4202702
oracles beat la in essentially every way except atmosphere. more content (and good content in particular), optional trading sequences, and in particular the dungeons are way better. la basically beats them in music, story, and /comfy/, and also gets points for being a decent game 10 years before they came out.

la is very linear and while oracles are linear too they have the quality dungeons and rings to make up for it. la doesn't. it sacrificed it to instead tell a story. this was a good move, and was the start of a new zelda storytelling tradition that basically culminated in oot. but it lost something in becoming so linear. la's atmosphere (driven largely by music, marin crushes, and the mysterious island aesthetic) is nice in its own way, but in turn completely loses the zelda "you can go anywhere and do anything, and everything is a new discovery" atmosphere from zelda 1.

zelda has gone down the linear "tell a story" route ever since, and that's understandable because 1) it's hard to make good open world games (see: albw) and 2) it sells. but imo a big part of why it sells is that open world zelda has been underrepresented for decades, so people are used to not having it. botw is a return to form p much and i hope it has a positive effect on the series long-term.

[Anonymous No.4202720]

>>4202714
BotW's return to form came at the price of chopping off both knees.

it's not impossible to merge interesting weapons, a compelling plot driven story, and open world exploration without being formulaic.

[Anonymous No.4202736]

>>4202714
>botw is a return to form p much and i hope it has a positive effect on the series long-term.
This is complete bullshit. BotW is not a return to form, you fell for the "back to the roots" meme. Just because you can do dungeons out of order does not make BotW a return to form in any sense. Aside from being games where you can explore a large world and solve puzzes, Zelda 1 and BotW couldn't be more different. BotW doesn't even have traditional tool items, no classic Link character, no real dungeons, nothing. It's a shitty sandbox RPG which is similar to traditional Zelda games by name and reference only. Stop pretending that Zelda 1 is somehow "true" Zelda just because it let you do dungeons out of order. In reality, 90% of the games in the series have had a linear dungeon progression, and that is what the series is known for, because it provides focus and well-designed dungeons. The dungeons don't matter though, because every game in the series has been open world and lets you explore however you want. Just because you can choose to do one dungeon before another does not mean that Zelda 1 is somehow more expansive and richly dense with content than any other Zelda game, and it certainly doesn't mean BotW is the same thing. Zelda 1 gets completely pooped on by a game like seasons in terms of the multitude of secrets and places to explore.

[Anonymous No.4202741]

>>4202720
botw definitely had room for improvement. but the bad parts were from "new zelda," not "old zelda," like the shitty house sidequest or those diaries. the story was workable enough. i definitely hope to see improvements to the weapons system in future games but making a clean break from the previous "must get item to beat dungeon and boss" system was a bandaid that needed tearing off

[Anonymous No.4202815]

>>4202720
>merge interesting weapons, a compelling plot driven story, and open world exploration without being formulaic.

False

[Anonymous No.4202825]

>>4202815
So you're saying it's impossible to make a good game?

[Anonymous No.4202865]

Why do people love Minish Cap so much?

It's rather short, doesn't have a lot of content. Combat is not that amazing either. It has a lower difficulty, even lower than other Zelda games which is not great since most of them are not difficult. And the figurine collecting for that last heart piece? Tell me of one person that liked that.

[Anonymous No.4202931]

>>4202741
>but making a clean break from the previous "must get item to beat dungeon and boss" system was a bandaid that needed tearing off
Not really, especially if Nintendo's solution to that would be copying what other fantasy sandbox games did and dumbing them down a bit. Good and clever designers for dungeons and shit can really help a long way ya know.

[Anonymous No.4202976]

>>4193021
The Oracle games are plagued with those shitty forced minigames. Also it suffered from the same limitations that LA had (only two buttons on the Gameboy so constantly entering your inventory was annoying). And having certain rings locked behind Gasha nuts and Maple encounters was a terrible idea, it just turned the game into a tedious game of chance if you wanted to 100% it. I also found the music to be pretty weak compared to other Zeldas. They're solid games but I find most other 2D Zelda's more enjoyable to replay.

[Anonymous No.4203016]

>>4202865
it's cutesy

[Anonymous No.4203205]

>>4202976
>The Oracle games are plagued with those shitty forced minigames.
Like what?

>Also it suffered from the same limitations that LA had (only two buttons on the Gameboy so constantly entering your inventory was annoying).
The system was perfect. Being able to access too much of your inventory at once ruins the variety of the game. I liked how the sword and shield were equippable items rather than selected by default, and the grid system by which you could access items and customize their placement was a step above what most games give you.
>And having certain rings locked behind Gasha nuts and Maple encounters was a terrible idea, it just turned the game into a tedious game of chance if you wanted to 100% it
This is a stupid complaint that I constantly hear. Nobody is making you collect all the rings, you don't get anything special for collecting them all, they are totally optional items which are mostly a novelty and have no bearing on the actual gameplay. If, however, you are autistically compelled to collect each and every ring to satisfy some kind of latent OCD, then learn to play the game correctly and you won't have so much trouble. Go stock up on rupees, buy a bunch of seeds, plant them in remote locations along a route that you plot out, go kill some enemies and then go through the route and pick up the nuts. You'll get dozens of rings in no time. This is just a dumb thing to complain about.
>They're solid games but I find most other 2D Zelda's more enjoyable to replay.
You're definitely entitled to your opinion but your reasoning for why the game is bad is pretty retarded, frankly.

[Anonymous No.4203228]

>>4203205
Not him, but I don't particularly love both the sneaking and dancing minigames.

Not that they ruin the games, in fact that's far from "plagued".

Also I don't believe the two item system was good but it wasn't as annoying as some people describe.

Also I would argue that you often get other shit than rings from trees, but come the fuck on, who collects all the rings? There are some really useless ones.

[Anonymous No.4203270]

>>4203228
>Not him, but I don't particularly love both the sneaking and dancing minigames.
I grant you that, I would have rather just been playing the regular game than being forced to do those things, but they take up literally a few minutes at most, and those two minigames are about the only two examples I can even think of.

>Also I would argue that you often get other shit than rings from trees, but come the fuck on, who collects all the rings? There are some really useless ones.
Exactly, some literally just act as trophies or symbols of accomplishment and don't even do anything, there's no real point in collecting them all. But, if you're gonna do it, it's really not that hard. Yeah, nuts don't always yield rings but I'd say they do about 60% of the time, maybe more.

[Anonymous No.4203289]

>>4203270
I think the pros severly outweigh the cons. One of the things that I think pretty much anyone should consider is the whole linked game system. Many games (curiously enough mostly on PS1 even though later consoles also had the same external memory capabilities) had this whole "use a save from the previous entry to unlock new shit" but this game went sideways instead which I found really neat, I still haven't seen any other game do this in a meaningful way. That alone kinda makes me forget about some of its faults.

[Anonymous No.4203312]

>>4203205
i liked the ring system overall but the gashapon system was definitely the worst part of it. some of the rings hidden by it were legitimately good. i tried for months to get the green ring but never did. if it were the moblin ring or something i wouldn't have cared.

turns out there are only two gasha spots in the game that work for the green ring. how the fuck was i supposed to figure that out? even the guides never said that. the first time i heard about it was 2013: https://touriantourist.blogspot.com/2013/06/oracle-of-ages-seasons-random-rings.html

[Anonymous No.4204647]

>>4202825
Oh derp, I read that as you saying it's impossible.

[Anonymous No.4204893]

>>4201738
>>4202976
>>4203312
Most Zelda games reward you with worthless rupees for everything you accomplish. Just spent 20 minutes exploring this mini-dungeon? Here you are, 200 rupees you can't spend on anything, go fuck yourself.

The oracle games are the first in the series that actually gave you something to give a fuck about. Even if it was difficult to find them all, the slightest chance of getting a new ring was a better incentive to actually play and explore than has been found in ANY other classic Zelda game.

[Anonymous No.4204908]

>>4204893
This man speaks the truth. They were a nice addition that allowed for customizing your experience without changing the formular to much with 500 different equipment items and combinations thereof.

But boy, I sure was exited every time I got yet another moblin ring.

[Anonymous No.4204923]

>>4204908
>They were a nice addition that allowed for customizing your experience without changing the formular to much with 500 different equipment items and combinations thereof.
Exactly, they let you augment your experience a little bit like you would in an RPG, but like you said, without stripping away the Zelda feel.

The system definitely could have been better designed, such as maybe giving you a new ring if you find three of the same in a row, something like that. However, I think the reason they made it so difficult to find all of the rings is because they wanted to give you a reason to keep playing. One thing I've always hated about most Zelda games is how they take a chore-like approach to design. You just beat the game, collect the bottles, capacity upgrades etc., and then don't play it again for years. Oracles are great because you can play for hundreds of hours and not find everything.

[Anonymous No.4204947]

I'm playing through this game right now and I just had something weird happen. I was right outside of a dungeon, and normally no monsters appear on this particular map. I came out and there was a single red moblin throwing spears at me, and he couldn't be killed by sword hits. The only thing that worked was using an ember seed and burning that obese faggot alive. He appeared again once more and then I haven't seen him since. What the fuck is up with that?

[Anonymous No.4204951]

>>4193021

I always get bored with these games midway through and quit. Seasons at least. Tried 3 times and I get to the don't care point and stop.

[Anonymous No.4204954]

>>4204951
Let me guess, you like Wind Waker and Skyward Sword.

[Anonymous No.4204956]

>>4202736
When the original Ultima landed, it was a rejection of Text Based Adventures. First, the original Ultima used, nay, invented TILED GRAPHICS. Most importantly, you could play the game your way. Well, within the technology parameters of 1980. Many games were inspired by this. One of them was the original Legend of Zelda.

Aonuma loves linear adventure gaming. Under Aonuma, Zelda became like ‘text based adventure games’ more and more with each new incarnation, the old Zelda world and tropes left in for nostalgia but also perfumed the smell of the rot. The perfume lasted only so long. Everyone could smell the rot by Skyward Sword.

What Breath of the Wild did was reject the ‘text based adventure game’ style which brings Breath of the Wild more into the classic Zeldas. When the player has choices, the experience feels like a world. To the developer, the game though feels like a garden or arena.

But if the game was made as a linear adventure, it is swapped! The player, lacking choice, sees the game experience like a garden or arena. The developer, having all the choices, sees the game experience as a world. “Here is backstory.” “Here is dialogue you cannot skip.” “Oh my! What an amazing world this is!” Gamer: “There is no world here. It is so linear. It sucks!”

Both the developer and gamer cannot have choice. Only one is allowed to have choice. If it is the developer, then the developer has fun and the gamer… doesn’t. If it is the gamer, then the developer is stressed to work out every situation of what the player may or may not do.

The reason why 99% of video games are bad is because the developers think the game world emerges from their choices instead of the player’s.

[Anonymous No.4204957]

>>4204956
What a fucking trainwreck of a post.

[Anonymous No.4204973]

>>4204956
Worst post I've read in a long time.

[Anonymous No.4204975]

>>4204956
>>4204956
Look at this pseudo intellectual faggot and laugh.
>"What Breath of the Wild did was reject the ‘text based adventure game’ style which brings Breath of the Wild more into the classic Zeldas"
You're A) pretending that Zelda 1 represents the identity of the series when the majority of them have been linear adventure games, and B) claiming that BotW is somehow more of a Zelda based on the agreed fact that it is less of one. Moreover, you still neglect to understand the blatant retardation of not realizing how all the classic Zeldas are extremely alike and you are conflating Zelda 1 with BotW solely on the basis of the two letting you do dungeons out of order, which is especially ironic given that BotW barely even ha real dungeons to do in the first place. BotW is nothing like a real Zelda game and Zelda 1 does not define the series, stop being retarded now.

[Anonymous No.4204986]

Quality design coming through. How did they make this shit look so good on GBC?

[Anonymous No.4204989]

>>4204975
>muh dungeons muh dungeons
Fuck off already. People call BotW a return to form not because "MUH DUNGEONS ANY ORDER" but because the series finally let players do things FOR THEMSELVES without things like a retarded owl or a story trigger saying "NO YOU RETARDED CHILD YOU CAN'T GO THERE YET". LttP is incredibly open. OoT is incredibly open.

The gameboy games are not by comparison because they're fucking gameboy games.
And every game after OoT is not for no good reason.

[Anonymous No.4205028]

>>4204989
>>4204989
Not him but;
>because the series finally let players do things FOR THEMSELVES without things like a retarded owl
The beginning of the game has king-in-cognito holding your hand till you get your macguffins and appears out of thin air.
kakariko village is where you you're soft guided to.
Every main dungeon has an associated dungeon entry quest sequence.
""Dungeons"" break gameplay flow constantly to tell you how many glowy plot panels you've pressed, and culminate in the worst boss fights this series has seen.

Naturally I'm not saying it's not open. But to say there isn't hand holding is horse shit.

>LttP is incredibly open
If we ignore the requirements to enter dungeons 5 6 and 7 maybe.

>OoT is incredibly open
You will always do spirit and shadow last
Fire Water and forest were always the only real choice for doing shit in an incredibly open manner without using glitches. Sidequests on the other hand

I noticed you didn't mention MM for some reason when that game's only requirement for you to break open into the rest of it was grabbing a bow from a dungeon.

The main point of this is that almost every game in the series has had a degree of linearity that changes in severity. And if we're going to talk about a golden standard that meshes both models while being desirable to everybody it's OoT that would be a "return to form" and not Zelda 1;

1) Well Designed dungeons are seen as desirable
2) The music by Koji Kondo is so ingrained in the series that I can say lost woods and you now are hearing the theme in your head
3) Characters and cast are important. You can visualize the mask man in majora's mask in your minds eye. Can you visualize a stablemaster?
4) Unique weapons that interact with the environment and puzzles in interesting ways

These are all things that people want. And this isn't even half of it. Miss some of these and you'll still be alright. Miss most of them and you alienate your fanbase.

[Anonymous No.4205075]

I think its definitely the best Zelda game

[Anonymous No.4205674]

It's just Link's Awakening with a few more gimmicks. Not that it's a bad thing, and the fact that LA held up 7 years later is a testament to how great it was, but the framework was laid for them.

[Anonymous No.4206163]

>/vr/ doesnt like the Oracle games, the peak of 2D Zeldas after Zelda 1 itself

Wew. And here I thought you guys would be above /v/, but you are just as bad.

[Anonymous No.4206201]

>>4202865
>And the figurine collecting for that last heart piece?

Holy shit that can completely fuck off.

Wind Waker had figurine collecting for its own sake, people complain that it was pointless. So what do Nintendo do? Give it a point in the worst way possible; make it a fucking RNG gatcha shitfest where you pay more currency every time you succeed just to have the same chance to receive a new statue.

[Anonymous No.4206218]

>>4206163
>but you are just as bad

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with that kind of appeal. Insulting people won't make them suddenly change their minds. If anything, it will just make people bolster their existing hatred of whatever thing you're trying to promote.

Maybe if some anon could be bothered to construct a well thought out and civil argument in support of the games, people on /vr/ might have a change of mind. Instead, Oracle fanboys have only shitposted in this thread.

[Anonymous No.4206221]

>>4204893

Except most rings were literally useless, as they had no in-game function. Rupees would have been far more useful.

[Anonymous No.4206236]

>>4206221
>Except most rings were literally useless
Not useless, just very situational, like the Throw Ring that increases throwing distance, or the rings that reduce health loss from specific types of damage. Or the ring that makes every hit cost one heart; great when you face enemies that normally do more damage, dangerous when fighting lots of weaker enemies.

Or they have a benefit and a handicap. Like the Sword Rings that boost your sword's damage but decrease your defenses.

Few of the rings are actually purposeless. Some examples of that would be the rings that note that you killed 1000 enemies, or got 10000 rupees.

[Anonymous No.4206261]

>>4193052
No shit, Seasons is a Video Game, Los Angeles is a fucking city.

[Anonymous No.4206351]

>>4202590
>>4202610
Calm down nig it's just a vidya. It's just an opinion after all and some of his complaints are kinda legit. You that same guy who also hates Alundra with a burning passion?

[Anonymous No.4206723]

>>4204947
you can beat him he just has a ton of hp. only shows up in one of the seasons. there are a couple others like that in the game, it's part of the red ring quest

[Anonymous No.4206746]

>>4206221
there's a few rings that i swap in and out every playthrough.

red/blue/green rings for general situations

throw ring for head thwomp/great moblin/tokay meat throwing

double rupee ring

rang ring for lost ruins

snowshoe ring for sword & shield maze

swimmer's ring for jabu-jabu/zoras

roc's ring

pegasus ring

maple's ring when going for the heart piece

always wanted to do an expert's ring run

if you could use the sword with 1st gen ring it would have been so badass

[Anonymous No.4206770]

>>4204956
>The reason why 99% of video games are bad is because the developers think the game world emerges from their choices instead of the player’s.

Ultimately, these decisions are of low quality, just whether you want to kill something before or later. In any case, TES and many more videogames were doing the same thing.

[Anonymous No.4206843]

>>4206723
But those are supposed to be yellow ("golden") while the guy said the Moblin was red, also the golden ones don't reappear as he stated.

[Anonymous No.4206863]

>>4206843
it's obviously the gold moblin outside snake's remains. no shit he thought a gold enemy was red. it was autumn and he had never seen a gold enemy before

he was mistaken about it reappearing. either he reloaded a save or he left the screen without actually killing it the first time. or maybe he saw a regular red moblin and thought it was the same one. regardless, i'm right

[Anonymous No.4206867]

>>4206221
"No in-game purpose" lol what a retard. Plenty of them have a purpose. Increase sword damage, immunity to certain elements, breathing underwater, reduced damage, etc. Only like 10 out of 64 of them are actually useless and don't do anything, and those are mostly ones you get automatically as a trophy for killing monsters and whatnot. You can't possibly be retarded enough to think that rupees, which are literally found everywhere and have no use in almost every game, are somehow a better reward than a unique item that improves your stats. That is autism.

[Anonymous No.4206876]

>>4206863
You are correct, it was outside of Snake's Remains and it's possible it was golden as i'm playing on an original GBC in shitty lighting, so red and gold look very similar. As for him re-appearing, I distinctly remember killing him the once, leaving the area (into a different seasonal district, thus reloading enemies) and coming back to find him again. Must be a fluke of some kind but I'm positive.

[Anonymous No.4207069]

>>4206863
I remember the golden beasts, but I did not remember their locations, so I went by his word.

>>4206876
Maybe burning them with seeds does not count as a kill? The Octoroc can't be killed by pushing it into a hole, after all. Dimitri 1-hit-kos them, though, if I remember correctly.

[Anonymous No.4207082]

>>4193402

DX version isn't "shit", but the original IS the best definitive version. you should probably stop talking about things you know very little about

[Anonymous No.4207085]

>>4193136
>I didn't grow up with it
Is all you had to say.

>LA is the last great classic zelda game, forming a holy trinity with ALTTP and the original LoZ
lol holy shit I sometimes forget how cartoonishly hipster some of you fags can be.

[Anonymous No.4207087]

>>4207082
>but the original IS the best definitive version.
They're literally the exact same game except DX has more stuff and is in color. It's objectively better and there's nothing you can do to change that.

[Anonymous No.4207091]

>>4207082
>you should probably stop talking about things you know very little about

[Anonymous No.4207249]

>>4207087
I never liked the clouds on the DX title screen. The starkness of the first title screen inspired awe whereas the clouds feel like a tacky attempt to make it epic.

Other than that DX is better in literally every way.

[Anonymous No.4207486]

>>4207087
After being on /vr/ for years and reading tons of nostalgiafag posts about how not only the "don't touch a rock or the game won't fucking shut up, also good luck switching items during endgame" is far better than Oracles, but also how the DX version is shit, I'm gonna go on a limb and give you the two arguments these hipsters always use.

1. Black and white makes it feel more dreamlike
2. I liked the bugs in the original and I hate that they fixed it (alternatively, bugs are always good! Arrow bombs were a bug too! Etc)

Don't pay them any attention, arguments don't break through their rose tinted glasses.

[Anonymous No.4207506]

>>4207486
DX is better period. DX + Oracles is a threesome you can't forget and no hipster nonsense will beat that.

[Anonymous No.4207528]

>>4207486
Their "argument" boils down to "the one I played first and remember is the best version".

Everything stated beyond that is just a subconscious defense mechanism.

inb4 I triggered somebody into slinging their deductive reasoning at me

[Anonymous No.4207652]

I don't understand how anyone can like LA compared to the Oracle games. I constantly see people worshipping it as one of the best games in the series, when the flaws are too many to name. LA feels like "A Link to the Past: Retard Edition", going as far as to have some of the exact same items and an incredibly similar map layout, but with less of everything and dumbed-down gameplay. The Oracle games took the framework of LA and actually made it into a high-quality, unique experience worthy of sitting with the best. Anyone saying LA is better than the Oracle games is speaking purely from nostalgia, it is objectively worse in every single way.

[Anonymous No.4207669]

>>4205028
>LttP is incredibly open
>If we ignore the requirements to enter dungeons 5 6 and 7 maybe.

not to mention the numbers on the game map telling you what order you should go in.

[Anonymous No.4207673]

>>4207652
I don't go so far with LA as it being the retard edition but I think it's just a basic edition touted for its story. Oracles took that when the foundation was set and became just games with more focus on polish, quality and content.

[Anonymous No.4207681]

>>4207673
There's just nothing appealing to me about LA. Even the aesthetics -- washing up on an island, the giant egg, etc. it all felt so cartoonish and un-Zelda. They could have done something unique, but instead they just stole most of the items and gameplay concepts from ALttP and slapped them on a portable version with worse graphics and a hammy story. Then you look at the Oracle games, and they are rich with new ideas and content while still adhering closely to the traditional Zelda formula. It just seems like night and day in terms of quality and polish.

[Anonymous No.4207814]

>>4207681
To be fair, the story in the oracle games is kinda bland. It's literally just:

>they took the grill

And that's pretty much it. Commence sequence of dungeons to acquire set of items to defeat the boss, which is a very Zelda thing to do, and also terribly boring unimaginatively generic.

I agree on the gameplay side (keep in mind the system was rather new and not as capable as home consoles), but at least LA had some intrigue to its story. I might go as far as saying the premise is one of the least derivative in the series.

[Anonymous No.4208296]

>>4207814
The story in Oracles is very generic, but the gameplay gimmicks associated with the story (seasons/time warping) was very creative, so the gameplay and exploration made up for it in spades, like you point out.

I agree that Link's Awakening had a more intriguing story, but honestly the "shipwreck, find out the lore of the area where you are" setup is just as generic as "they took the grill". The plot twist of the dream is what makes it worth it, but even then that was barely a "twist" given the name of the game in both regions (dreaming island, link's awakening). Oracles' plot twist with Twinrova and how both games were linked made it a generic/traditional Zelda story and wasn't creative at all, but at least it wasn't totally predictable right from looking at the logo.

[Anonymous No.4208316]

>>4207669
That still leaves more than half the dungeons plus 95% of the dark world map being open in addition to any parts of the light world you missed.

Pretty open.

If you choose to do the dungeons in the particular order that's your own choice man.

[Anonymous No.4208370]

Is 2 bucks for a cart only copy of mega man: wily's revenge a good deal?

[Anonymous No.4208372]

>>4208370
$2 for a classic game that you can play again and again? sure!

[Anonymous No.4208380]

>>4208370
>2
Meant 10 bucks.

[Anonymous No.4209265]

>>4208296
time warping was not creative, it was straight out of link to the past

[Anonymous No.4209306]

>>4208316
In addition, there's nothing stopping a player from really wandering around. Even in the early game: though you're told to go to Kakariko and find out more about the Elder, you don't have to go there and can explore the entire world except Zora Falls and Death Mountain. In fact, if you were to find where Sarashla lives near the Eastern Palace, you can talk to him and ignore the whole "go to Kakariko" pointer as the game doesn't make him unavailable to you.

As well, the game doesn't lock you out of the Eastern Palace either-- you can enter it without consulting with Sarashla.

[Anonymous No.4209330]

>>4209265
...you mean Ocarina of Time, right?

[Anonymous No.4209346]

>>4193051

I agree, constantly switching between overworld 20 times just to get over an obstacle gets old really fast.

The Dungeons are pretty good though.

>>4193021

Nah they were built on an already amazing game

[Anonymous No.4209351]

>>4207528
>>4207486
DX was the first version I played of LA. I finished it 100% multiple times because that's what you do when you get a new game maybe twice a year as a kid. The extra dungeon is fun, the graphics are given more life in more ways than just color and I loved getting the photo moments.

That text skip REALLY matters for me at this point though. It's a different thing when everything is new and I really want to see what is on the next screen, but when I just want to revisit the dungeons and get the big meat of the adventure, being able to skip the power-up prompt alleviates quite a bit. Every time it accidentally pops in DX, not only is the pace halted, but I'm bothered as fuck thinking someone, somewhere, thought this was necessary. It's a tiny thing, but like a tiny pebble in my shoe it gets more and more aggravating every time it makes itself reminded.

TL;DR - I'm glad I played DX first. When replaying I cannot fucking play DX because now that things aren't new, the prompt is too obnoxious. DX is best version but they should have kept the skip.

[Anonymous No.4209461]

>>4209330
no, the mechanics of it were identical to the light world/dark world from link to the past. including the ability to go from one world to the other and leave a portal back.

[Anonymous No.4209739]

I noticed that the 2D Zelda series have less full romhacks than other popular series. I think someone should grab the oracles and make something unique.

[Anonymous No.4210175]

>>4206746
>always wanted to do an expert's ring run
That's the one that makes you take double damage, right?
I did a linked playthrough of seasons with that, some of the bosses were REALLY difficult (twinrova)

[Anonymous No.4210203]

>>4209739
There are hacking tools for them called ZOLE, but all of the documentation was hosted on a forum that's now gone.

I didn't think to check the internet archive at the time. Seems obvious now. But I'm not interested in rom hacking at the moment.

[Anonymous No.4211406]

>>4210175
no, it lets you punch