[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/vr/ - Retro Games

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 31 KB, 250x238, 250px-Navi_Artwork.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
414471 No.414471 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Did anyone else never have much of a problem with Navi? The "annoying" factor is way overblown on the Internet. Besides, she helps you with Z-targeting, without which the game would be much more difficult.

>> No.414514

I always felt the hate was forced. I never noticed she could be kind of annoying until everyone pointed it out. She's pretty bro

>> No.414528

People often act like you actually have to listen to her. If you don't want to talk to her, simply don't press the button.

>> No.414543

Oh, people just forced the hate for no reason. It seems even more miniscule now that Fi and Midna were even more annoying.

>> No.414550

Most people didn't find her annoying. It's just teenagers and preteens trying to be edgy by exaggerating flaws that don't really exist.

>> No.414551

Some of it does get a bit annoying, but I never found it to be that big of a deal. That bitch in Skyward Sword made me damn near quite playing the game, though.

>> No.414553

well, she's really annoying in the 3DS OoT

>> No.414560

I fell from that that tiny walkway room in the fire temple alllll the way back to the big entrance room.

It took me several hours to get up there (I suck). When I got back, first thing I did...was run and fall down again.

I ragequitted. When I picked the game again the next day, I warped the fuck out of there and completed every possible sidequest and dungeon without the fucking fire temple. I think I had to go back because either the shadow or spirit temple required a hammer smash on a switch or something.

Anyway, the many many hours I played included Navi not shutting the fuck up about the clouds over death mountain. So I agree with the meme

>> No.414563

Hey! Listen!



>> No.414564

It's more the shitty in-joke effect than actual dislike of navi that blew the whole thing out of proportion. Most people I've seen overreact to the whole mention of Navi or "Hey, listen!" haven't even played OoT.

>> No.414576

Never had a problem with her, that fucking owl though...

>> No.414580

Errr, my first sentence disappeared. It was the fire temple and I never realized you could walk slowly

>> No.414586

Who fucking hated Navi? I didn't find her annoying at all.

Now, that cunt from Skyward Sword is aggravating. Why do Zelda games need these little sidekicks anyway?

>> No.414602

According to some people Navi actually acts like this:

>Walk five steps
>EXTREMELY LOUD HEY LISTEN sound starts playing over and over again
>forced to press Listen Button
>Navi starts talking to Link for 6 hours with no way to skip anything
>All she tells him in those 6 hours is that he should probably go to where he actually is right now
>Walk five steps

>> No.414617

At least the Owl brought some awesome music with him while he was being a windbag.

>> No.414620

Do you understand?

> No
> Huh?

>> No.414630

I much preferred Tatl. She didn't endlessly remind you of your current objective while you were trying to sidequest, I found the light jingling sound much less grating than Navi's "HEY LISTEN", and Tatl actually had a personality (even if that personality was "snarky jackass").

>> No.414636

To provide tips.

Haven't played SS, but I do think Midna from TP gave way too many tips during boss fights.

>> No.414651

Wait, the boss fights needed tips? They were all abysmally easy.

>> No.414667

Skyward Sword gives you the most tips should you actually want to read them. The tips even change depending on how long you are fighting the current boss.

>> No.414670

>Why do Zelda games need these little sidekicks anyway?
They are made to help guide players along through every bit of the game. While Navi had next to no relevance to the plot and was just a helper, at this point, companions have become woven into the storylines to the point where everyone will expect them now.

On an unrelated note, I really hope the next Zelda game borrows more the original NES Zeldas in terms of throwing you into a big world without much to guide you. Fi in Skyward Sword proved that they are trying to cater way too much to a new audience, when most people playing Zelda games have been fans for decades.

>> No.414681

She tells you exactly step by step how to defeat them. And yes they were extremely easy. I remember in the final Ganondorf fight I lost only 1 heart.

>> No.414690

I don't remember TP much at all and I wish I could say the same for SS, but Wind Waker did it pretty good
>no helper fairy
>If needed you can ask the fish for information on islands
>In certain situations such as bosses, if the game sees you're taking too long to figure it out you get a little tip from the gossip stone

But yeah, my friends nor myself were even aware that Navi was annoying until we started getting internet access

I don't care what they do with helper fairies or guides, I just want a strict "Advice: ON/OFF" option in the next ones

>> No.414716

Tatl's dinging was much more annoying than HEY LISTEN

>> No.414745

Zelda in general tends to be an easy game.

>> No.414746

A YouTube user named Matthewmatosis did a series of five videos, each one covering the 3D Zeldas, with the videos being about 30 minutes long each. They are definitely worth checking out if you have the time. In it, he points out the weird contrast between Twilight Princess's harsh art style and blindingly easy gameplay. He said it makes sense for Wind Waker to be easy because the art style suggests a friendlier tone, but Twilight Princess had the darkest aesthetics of the series up to that point and was even easier than Wind Waker.

Sage because this post isn't really retro.

>> No.414764

I thought TP was mildly difficult.

But it was my first wii game.

>> No.414767

The only real issue was when you were running across the map looking for Heart pieces or the Giant's swrod and Navi keeps bitching at you to go to the water temple or some shit.

>> No.414769

This is incredibly minor, but everyone on the Internet seems to think Navi says "Hey, listen!", when the two are always separate and never said at once. "Hey!" to alert you, and "Listen!" when you listen to what she says. She doesn't always say those two either, but the Internet would have you believe that she literally says nothing but "Hey, listen!"

>> No.414781

Navi annoyed the fuck out of me only because I thought it was retarded you could only lock on to whatever she was highlighting at the time. There were a few occasions playing the game when an enemy would clearly be in view and I would be mashing Z to lock on, but Navi would inexplicably not target for me.
I just felt the game would be much better if Z-targetting was just a normal mechanic rather than a fairy gimmick.

>> No.414793

>wii game
Well there's your problem, wrist cramps tend to make vidya difficult
The only ting good about the Wii version was the aiming and, imo, more responsive spin attack controls

>> No.414795

She was a little annoying but cute enough that it didn't get to me. It was kind of endearing.

>> No.415926

Why don't they just include a hard mode already?

>> No.415974

You've got it backwards. It isn't that you can only lock onto what she highlights, it's that she highlights what you can lock on to. She's a visual indicator to let you know what's going to happen when you press the z button. Otherwise, how will you know which enemy you're going to lock on to or if you're in range to lock on in the first place?

>> No.416062

since i played this game when i was younger, i didnt really know what i was supposed to be doing.
when you start to wander aimlessly is when it seems like all you hear is HEY LISTEN and it really annoyed me

>> No.416782

The only thing I didn't like was the first 20 minutes or so, where she(?) would explain every detail to you.
But it wasn't that annoying, and was probably helpful anyway.

>> No.416829
File: 94 KB, 800x740, 1355817420290.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I have my phone set round robin sound clips "Hey!", "Hello?", "Listen!", etc. as my ring-tone.
>tfw no calls or text messages ever

The only people I've ever heard complain about this were people that didn't actually beat OoT (or get far at all, for that matter).

>> No.416853

First play through she isn't bad. After that, she get's annoying. Telling you to look at this thing, like the ladder in the webs, or the eyes being hollow, or that there is a cold wind coming from Zora's Domain.

>> No.416872

I never minded Navi. I actually kinda' liked her and I really liked the fact Majora's Mask happened because Link was actually looking for his dear friend.

I can't be the only one that shipped Link x Navi, right?

>> No.416908

Yeah, Tatl is more bro than Navi, but I didn't mind Navi.

>> No.417316

She only points out the obvious early on, doesn't she?

>> No.417493
File: 26 KB, 300x225, 300px-LOZ_OoT_3D_GVChickenJump.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

No, she is that annoying. When Ocarina of Time came out, I was 12 years old. It was the first game I got with my N64, and I was blown the fuck away. It was also the first 3D game of any kind I had ever owned, and I loved the fuck out of exploring every nook and cranny that world had to offer...

...so imagine how fucking annoying it is to have Navi pop up ever so often, just to remind me what I should be doing, or where I should be going, especially if I already happened to be on my way to said event/location. I understand it was the first Zelda game of its kind, and the first fully 3D adventure game, so the developers probably wanted to make sure players didn't get too lost. Her pestering isn't game breaking, and now that I know the game like the back of my hand, I rarely goof off enough to even give her a chance to start yapping, but when I was 12 years old, she was the bane of my fucking existence.

Yes, Navi, I know a cold wind is blowing from Zora's Domain. But I'm really busy right now practicing my swan dives from the top of Gerudo Valley. Please piss off.

>> No.417596

I agree but you do realise Z-targeting isn't dependent on her, right? Like, it'd work without her.

>> No.417612

Not retro but Fi's about 1000x worse.

>> No.417635


True. At least Navi doesn't interrupt gameplay. Well, often.

>> No.417652

well, at least Navi is no asshole or cunt, much unlike Tatl.

>> No.417668

I didn't mind her. She was actually pretty helpful on my first playthrough about where to go. She could get annoying at times, but it's not nearly as bad as it's been made out to be. Honestly, the annoying Navi meme is a lot like the cake is a lie at this point.

>> No.417672


Tatl actually annoyed the shit out of me because she was such "tsundere uguu" stereotype. I really don't like anime and its tropes.

>> No.417692

It's called satire, or exaggerating something in order to make a joke out of it.
A lot of people just didn't get the joke.

Navi is mildly annoying at best. There have been SO many worse companions in video games.

>> No.417704
File: 53 KB, 178x202, Sahasrahla.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I think we all know who the best helper is.

>> No.417705

pretty much. now imagine you'd have gotten her borther instead of her.

he'd be /r9k/ incarnate and never brings out a full sentence due to stuttering.

>t-t-that f-ffeel w-when no masks...

>> No.417725


Jesus H., I never thought of that.

>> No.417732

Same for me. That fucking owl makes me livid. And you can't skip his shit!

>> No.417817


>Oh great, it's that fucking owl again.
>Well I'll just go ahead and speed this shit up.
>"Do you want me to repeat that?"

Every fucking time.

>> No.417857

Navi was just annoying because sometimes you'd be just about to enter the temple and she'd go "HEY WE SHOULD CHECK OUT THAT THING YOU ALREADY DID"

It doesn't help that the information she gave you was worse than useless.

>> No.418025


What is this, I don't even

But yeah, Fi was annoying as hell.

>> No.418047
File: 12 KB, 478x434, halolz-dot-com-pokemon-zeldaoot-cant-escape.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.418054

requesting translation

>> No.418075

I've heard people argue that Tatl's the better partner because she has a personality, unlike Navi. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who disagrees with this notion.

>> No.418119 [SPOILER] 
File: 418 KB, 1920x1080, 11321986494166.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Why would I hate the sound of my waifus sweet voice?

>> No.418126


Navi being super annoying is just US GAMERS HUH bullshit, and it always has been

>> No.418147

The only time I ever found her annoying was if I wanted to run off and do some sidequest or explore or something, and she occasionally would try and remind me of the main goal I'm supposed to be going at. Other then that it's way overblown.

>> No.418191

The only time she becomes annoying is when you're out doing stuff that isn't related to the main quest. Inevitably, if you're doing side-quest/sequence breaking/dicking around, she is going to chime in with a cacophony of "HEY"s. You can ignore them for a while, but you will eventually need to use up-c to look around, and then you'll be forced to listen to her remind you of what you really should be doing right now.

I don't really mind Navi, but they could have toned down the handholding factor just a little bit. Sticking with the ALttP approach of "it's there if you need it, but you have to seek it out" would have made more sense. Yeah, Navi should be available to give you hints whenever you ask her to, but she shouldn't actively try to give you hints if you don't want them.

>> No.418214


I actually liked it because I thought her voice had a nice echoey quality. She also sounded kind of British to me which was kinda neat.

Honestly the hate seems almost fabricated because I've talked to friends about this game a lot in real life and nobody ever brought it up.

>> No.418238

>She also sounded kind of British to me

Have you possibly considered the fact that you might be retarded

>> No.418262


Well I didn't learn until later she actually has a transatlantic accent.

>> No.418271

Never had an issue with her, I agree with >>414514

I liked that she made the journey a little less lonely and provided info on enemies. I'd like fairies to return this way.

>> No.418802

>she helps you with Z-targeting,
No, she doesn't.
The game mechanics do.
Don't confuse her presence as part and parcel to the game mechanic. If you threw her shit out and simply had a targeting beacon or brightness highlight or something it'd be the same shit. Much in the same way as you can take the top of a stick shift and replace it with a gigantic fucking dildo or pwnage skull or other ridiculous shit, it doesn't change the fact that they're simply the face of the mechanic not the mechanic itself.

>> No.418931

Could't get immersed in any of the 3D Zeldas because of her and Jingleballs from Majora's Mask

>exploring the vast country side
>awesome adventure music pops up
>get near an enemy
>AWFUL spiccato sounds and trumpets start blaring
>"WATCHOUT!" / sound of agitated jingling

>> No.419040

I'm glad he only ever talks to you three times for the story. The idea of talking to him with the tiles was a nice feature if you were having a bit of difficulty with what to do, but holy shit he talks way too much.

>> No.419168

I dunno, I didn't mind having her around. Journey probably would've been a lot lonelier without her around.

>> No.419225

I'm pretty sure the point was that she serves as an in-game explanation for z-targeting. That, and you can't z-target Ganondorf because Navi can't get close enough to him, so yeah, the game mechanics are kind of tied to the character, at least in regards to the plot dynamics.

>> No.419256

You can't Z-Target Ganon because that fight is piss easy enough already, and having access to the jump slash would just make it a trival non-matter.

>> No.419276

I never hated her really but I could certainly have done without her.

>> No.419281

>implying Navi has no personality.

why is it that some juvenile faglords on shitty gameforums always think that only a character with snarky personality has personality?

Navi has her own charm too. at least she is a professional fairy and knows what she's doing unlike that Tatl cunt who shat all over you first.

>> No.419316

I said Ganondorf, not Ganon. Besides, saying "hurr durr the fight is 2 ez" does not change the fact that the targeting is clearly story-related and dependent on Navi. That was the way it was meant. Stop being a fucking sperglord.

>> No.419321

I think sages and hermits in zelda games are terribly outdated and so generic.

>hurr durr u did it Link! Now dat u hav teh mustard swordz u can go and fulfill yet desitny! now u must stap yaddayaddayadda

the sagefags in Oracle of Seasons were fucknig assholes sometimes.


or that one sage who just seems to have his home in the middle of a really dangerous dungeon for no appearant reason

>> No.419325

You can jump slash without z-targeting. You retarded m8?

>> No.419331

Minus the sages in OoT, who only become sages when they die fuck you, that's not a spoiler, everyone knows that.

>> No.419339

You can't Z Target Ganondorf? I never noticed. Mostly because that form was so easy since it was just a rehash of Phantom Ganon, with the one challening gimmick from prior removed.

>> No.419351

The only thing I hated was that she could have used a bit more personality, otherwise I was alright with Navi.

>> No.420016

No, you're a fucking moron. Replace Navi with a fucking flying pineapple that says nothing, does the mechanic still work the same way, yeah?
It's not 'tied' to Navi.
It's like having the head shaft of a stick shift as a dildo or super duper kewl pwn skull. Both are gay as fuck for a stick shift head, but you can always replace it without affecting the functionality of the mechanics because it isn't tied directly to the mechanics.

>> No.420037

I can relate to this nigga

I just finished Oot 3ds, and its pretty clear that they wanted to make it more accessible and user (kid) friendly. Navi talks a lot more, not to mention the new hint system they put in the temple of time.

>> No.420038

She needed to tell you stuff, you should talk to her more often.
Why do you ignore her.

>> No.420041

Navi was only annoying once I got stuck at the Water Temple, before and after she was fine

>> No.420074
File: 16 KB, 232x197, bugs2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

When I first got the game, I thought she was saying "what's up" when she was actually saying "watch out".

>> No.420107

I've only played through the game once, and no I didn't really have any problem with her.

>> No.420132

>>she helps you with Z-targeting,
>No, she doesn't.
>The game mechanics do.
>Don't confuse her presence as part and parcel to the game mechanic. If you threw her shit out and simply had a targeting beacon or brightness highlight or something it'd be the same shit. Much in the same way as you can take the top of a stick shift and replace it with a gigantic fucking dildo or pwnage skull or other ridiculous shit, it doesn't change the fact that they're simply the face of the mechanic not the mechanic itself.

By this definition she's also just the face of the game reminding you shit, bosses are just the faces of attack patterns, etc. etc.

>> No.420154

There were a few parts where Navi would get interested in a a rock or a tree, but didn't have any information for me, and that kind of bugged me, but other than that, it never bothered me personally.

Character-wise, I thought Navi was neat.

>> No.420185

Oh god I HATED that
There was this one rock on Death Mountain I always noticed her do it to

>> No.420190

Of course the hate was forced. It was forced by instagram, leddit and swagyolo kids who only played the games once for an hour to know that navi makes a sound. (or they watched youtube videos to jump on the bandwagon)
It's been the ''nostalgia is hip now'' time back when hip sters played pokemon red on their old game boys in classes or on the train.

>> No.420204
File: 395 KB, 929x1000, 1341511948202.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

pic related

>> No.420219

Reminds me of when I was in some class, and some guy had a navi ringtone, and whenever it went off some other guy in the room would very forcefully and visibly cringe as if he had PTSD or some stupid shit.

>> No.420248

>By this definition she's also just the face of the game reminding you shit,
That is true, by the definition of what she is exactly. They could pop up hints on screen without her or replace her with a fucking owl or replace her with a different and more pink fairy, which by your definition could never happen since it's intrinsically linked to 'navis' existence.

> bosses are just the faces of attack patterns, etc. etc.
Whatever the fuck you're saying it's vaguely defined.
If you're suggesting that you could in fact replace the models of any attacking enemy with a giant penis named >420132 that screeches at you annoyingly but still attacks in exactly the same way, then yes that would be correct.

>> No.420254

But serious talk here, that fucking owl is satan and navi's dialogue is unskippable on 3DS

>> No.420287

And just to explain this.
Now if we watch this very exciting battle you'll notice navi flies up to the enemy in question with targeting rings around it and floats there. Is it nessecary that float there? Well obviously we know it's being targeting, she doesn't actually do anything but float around. So we could effectively remove her and it'd change nothing. What about before she targets, she flies up to shit and says hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey, so she's actually doing something. Could we replace hey with a beep or a ding? Damn right we could. Could still enable targeting rings in the background without her flying up to shit? Yeah. Could we indicate that something is targeted without having a fairy next to it? Yes. Can we make something flash lightly to demonstrate targeting just put a cursor of it? We could. Can link still look towards the thing he's targeting all the same? Yes.
Could we skip the beeping or noise to signal that we think they're retarded and can't figure shit out but still leave the functionality to examine something using the same button that was navi was previously assigned to? Yes.
So effectively every part of Navis existence, could be altered and changed without changing the way in which the mechanic works. Please, explain for the rest of the fucking classroom how the fuck she is now absolutely mindbogglingly necessary for those mechanics actually fucking work? Does she break the motherfucker API by not applying fairy dust to the fucking code?

>> No.420293
File: 158 KB, 3000x500, Ocarina_of_Time_in_a_nutshell_by_BrokenTeapot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]










>Navi in a nutshell

>> No.420308

Yes but if you didn't hear hay hay lissen watch out hay hay lissen with blue sparkling shit you wouldn't ever be able to target anything ever because her noises and blue fairyness are essential portions of the game that would just break if it they weren't there.
In fact, links movement would stop functioning if she wasn't in the game. So relax guy.

>> No.420316

Navi was a little bit annoying, but it wasn't to excess. The thing about Navi is really more of an old joke than anything.

>> No.420317

Navi was necessary because OOT was many people's first 3D puzzle game. Shit, I would never have figured out that some eye on the wall was a switch, and it had to be shot. That's not how switches work in real life.

She's pretty cute, too.

>> No.420325
File: 128 KB, 496x546, Gossip_Stone_(Ocarina_of_Time_and_Majora's_Mask).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Responding to your mask, this Stone Statue talks to you

"They say that the true masters of Ocarina of Time don't ever use Z-Targeting."

>> No.420331


that's because it plays similarly to classic Zelda

>> No.420361

Without using Z-targeting, Navi is useless, if Navi is useless she doesn't work. If Navi doesn't work every piece of code in the game breaks because everything uses Navi as basis of it's code, EVERYTHING!
You'd be crazy not to use Z-targeting.

I'm also positive that Navi exists in every other game in existence too and other games use mechanics that require Navi, like jumping in super mario brothers 1 for the NES. You might not see it, but I'm pretty sure there's a fairy telling Mario how to land. I mean how could he even jump without a fairy telling him how to jump, right?

>> No.420371

>You might not see it, but I'm pretty sure there's a fairy telling Mario how to land. I mean how could he even jump without a fairy telling him how to jump, right?

Are you on shrooms or something, anon?

Fairies didn't exist in Mario and I'm certain there isn't a magical fairy telling Link how to backflip and thrust with your sword.

>> No.420373

I remember those sounds from Magicka. I have never played a Zelda game.

>> No.420383

>Are you on shrooms or something, anon?
Bullshit. How can you jump without having a fairy? Jumping is a mechanic that's tied to fairies. Link jumps and has a fairy with him, therefore fairies are required for jumping and stabbing.

>> No.420387

Tell that to the Mario brothers, and they think that you had too many shrooms.

>> No.420403


I think anon-kun might be onto something. I remember my Italian grandparents using faires to help them jump on turtles.

>> No.420408

only one I had trouble with was Phantom Ganon

didn't know I had to hit the magic back with my sword

Na'Vi was no fucking help then

>> No.420413

>I remember my Italian grandparents using fairies to help them jump on turtles.

Source or it didn't happen.

Also, you are going to tell me that an elf possessed Mega Man, Zero, Bass, and the Robot Masters and telling them how to jump, right?

>> No.420417

False dichotomy. They could have implemented her to be silent but still targeting as well as simply removing her from the game, as well as several other possibilities. Just because she is useful doesn't mean she can't also be annoying sometimes.

>> No.420424

The only thing more powerful than fairies is paperclips. Fuck, I wouldn't even be able to type or figure shit out if it weren't for paperclips. Paperclips are an integral part of the word-processing and problem solving mechanics.

>> No.420430

You're missing the point. Read the thread.

>> No.420454

The pleasure of being cummed inside.

>> No.420505

Do... do you place your phone up to peoples ears all day and hover around them for constantly doing it?
Try it again. Put that shit up to their ear, get in their face when they're trying to doing something, don't wait for a call, the second they're working on a writing a paper or article whip that bad boy out and go hey hello listen, blast that shit. Then when they snap at you, point that you should pay attention to the document they were writing/reading.

See if you don't get complaints or punches.

>> No.420510


No one really gave a shit about Navi.

>> No.420516


She gave you flavor text on every enemy in the game.

>> No.420519

That's not a false dichotomy. It's a simple logical error.

>> No.420521

Oh 'SHE' did, did 'SHE?'

>> No.420537

Yes. No fairy, no flavor text. They intentionally tied the flavor text feature to the fairies in OoT and MM.

>> No.420547

Ah... they used. Fairy.FlavorText(Enemy) calls, I see now.

>> No.420554


>> No.420562
File: 166 KB, 500x281, 1361025298397.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>flavor text

Stop that shit, right now.

>> No.420571

What is right. Go fuck off already.

>> No.420601

Sorry. I re-read the OP.
>The "annoying" factor is way overblown on the Internet. Besides, she helps you with Z-targeting, without which the game would be much more difficult.
But I'm pretty sure even among those who did find her annoying, no one denied she was useful. Not a problem, it's just the OP bigging her up.

But then the person I responded to said that without her "hay hay lissen" annoyances, that you wouldn't ever be able to target anything ever.

Is false dichotomy a complex logical error?

>> No.420673

Z-Targeting was useful. Flavor Text/Hints are when wanted, useful.
Her going hey hey hey hey and being a blue circle was NOT useful. That was HER entire role to be a blue ball and to an indirect fashion, require a change in sound.
Navi, was not useful. The underlying mechanics were useful shut the fuck up already.

>A false dilemma (also called the fallacy of the false alternative, false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of the excluded middle, fallacy of false choice, black-and/or-white thinking, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option.

>> No.420710

And to explain it yet a-fucking-gain because people seem to have trouble reading the fucking thread.

Z-targeting System -> Navi
Hint System -> Navi


Navi -> Z-targeting System
Navi -> Hint System

Navi is not those functions, she is fucking attached to those functions.
Even in the system which pops up the paperclip having a paperclip is not nor has ever been necessary to have an alternate questioning interface and is in fact exchangeable. Even removable.
These two things are directly analogous.

>> No.420718


Stop what?

>> No.420732


This is retarded. This could be said of anything. Instead of a sword, you could give him a baseball bat. So the sword wasn't really useful, was it?

>> No.420741

I blame the forced hate on the people who say they are such nerds.

>> No.420851

A sword is not required to swing.
A bat or lightsaber or scythe or anything could be 'swung'
The sword itself isn't useful if the bat or other object has the same or nearly same direct functionally.

Now imagine instead of a sword, you had a vuvuzela that made noise at you for five minutes every time you swung it.
The vuvuzela's useful, right?
The attacking mechanic is useful, the damaging opponents, useful, the vuvuzela graphic and noise, not useful.

What's retarded is how you're not grasping that Navi is a symbolic attachment to functional systems which is neither useful nor a requirement.

>> No.420865

And because I also know you're going to be too stupid to understand it, let's take a proactive approach to dealing with your stupidity and have trouble separating concepts.

Explain to me how Navi is useful.

>> No.420871

Honestly I think all the hate for Navi came from popular internet personalities making jokes about her, and then their rabid fanboys declaring those jokes to be the truth.

It's like how people will swear to you that you can hear the helicopter in the background when Miller calls you just because they read the Hiimdaisy comic or watched Metal Gear Awesome.

>> No.420881

Well at least you're honestly retarded.

>> No.420902

You could z-target if she never existed. . .

Anyway, I didn't have much problem with her, but enough of one that jokes having to do with her on the Internet are funny to me, and I engage in them, as well. Thus, she gets overblown to the point of caricature, and I'm okay with that.

I'd imagine I just described most experiences.

>> No.420905

Because I think everyone jumped on a bandwagon or because you actually think you can hear the helicopter in MGS?

>> No.420907

What? No, he's right. "Navi is so annoying" became an Internet meme and now people spout it out without even really knowing the game itself. It's become a caricature more than anything. It's like how if you went by the Internet alone, you'd think "the cake is a lie" was the only thing in Portal, when in reality it was written on an easily missable wall and wasn't actually spoken aloud.

>> No.420910

Yeah, Fi was a legit annoyance.

>> No.420936

> It's like how if you went by the Internet alone, you'd think "the cake is a lie" was the only thing in Portal, when in reality it was written on an easily missable wall and wasn't actually spoken aloud.
While that phenomenon did occur, it is not like that phenomenon, nor is it that phenomenon.
It's more like, she was annoying as fuck, people noted that she was annoying and people make jokes about it.

>> No.420943

What? "Fi is so annoying" became an Internet meme and now people spout it out without even really knowing the game itself. It's become a caricature more than anything. It's like how if you went by the Internet alone, you'd think "the cake is a lie" was the only thing in Portal, when in reality it was written on an easily missable wall and wasn't actually spoken aloud.

>> No.420946

I didn't get it until probably around when I got to the Gorons' village, definitely before I got the OoT. I don't think it's *that* bad though.

>> No.420954

But she wasn't actually annoying.

>> No.420961

>TP easier than WW

While I would not call either particularly hard, that was not my experience at all.

>> No.420967

So why is it that Navi is annoying, but Tatl isn't when she does the exact same thing Navi does?

>> No.420968

No, Fi is just fucking annoying. I wouldn't have played Skyward Sword if I hadn't found a couple cheat codes making text appear instantly.

>> No.420975

That's a good question, now please link to the post of the person who said tatl isn't.

>> No.420980

No, just an internet meme.
Fi was useful.

>> No.420982

Holy shit this annoyed me, it's like they were trying to make the game more retard-accessible.

>> No.420984

Yes, and annoying.
Hell, I found her annyoing and I don't even go on the Internet.

>> No.420985

I thought this until like a year ago

>> No.420990

Actually Tatl is slightly less annoying because text speed is double in MM and more dialogue can be skipped.

>> No.420996
File: 13 KB, 209x268, 1360634747911.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Link me to any comic/website/forum/gamefaqs/memeworld/reddit/4chan Screencap/consumerist post where anyone, ever, on the entirety of the internet ever said "Tatl is annoying"

>> No.421000

>Master Link, judging by your erection I calculate a 90% probability you will wank within the next 15 minutes


>> No.421006

Simple, because Tatl doesn't say "hey" or "listen".

>> No.421009

So a sound effect, that only pops up every once in a good while, is the only thing annoying about Navi?

>> No.421012


Tatl has a more annoying personality

>> No.421013
File: 375 KB, 625x790, cad-20110620-f44ac.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

People who don't actually play Zelda latched onto it and overblew it, thinking it was more of a problem than it actually was.

Pic related.

>> No.421017

It's the only thing people remember about her. I guarantee that if she just had a chime like Tatl, nobody would have made the joke to begin with.

>> No.421018

Like I said, slow as shit unskippable text was the problem.

>> No.421028

But most of her text only pops up if you hit C-up, and you can speed through everything in the game by tapping B.

>> No.421039

Did you like how she mapped out the entire area you were about to explore? Why even explore at all?

>> No.421056

I'm guessing this is what the other two replies already said, but just in case:

You already have access to the jump slash.

>> No.421065

>Did you like how she mapped out the entire area you were about to explore? Why even explore at all?
Yes. If it wasn't for Fi you wouldn't be able to explore.

>> No.421083

I hated Tatl. Navi at least tried to be helpful, Tatl was a useless bitch.

>> No.421096

I hate to be the one, but...

>> No.421118

I've beaten OOT a few times, and there's something that's been bugging me... Was Navi in love with Link? Not only that, but was Link in love with Navi? That seems to be the basis for the plot in MM.

>> No.421125

The movie Hook with Robin Williams will answer all your questions.

>> No.421131

You done being retarded?

>> No.421136

You done liking bad game mechanics appealing to the lowest common denominator?

>> No.421149

You done defending those mechanics?

>> No.421168

... Link was searching for his marbles?

>> No.421171

That's you, but what am I?

>> No.421193

Actually, there's quite a few points where the text is unskippable even if you press b, mostly long messages when you're talking to people. Contrast with Majora's Mask and the 3DS remake, which made everything skippable and (I think) increased the default text speed, as well as generally making the menus faster to navigate.

Never really thought about it like that. I just thought they were good friends and that's why Link went looking for her.

>> No.421201

Platonic love, yes.

>> No.421223
File: 27 KB, 300x300, 1359591350505.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>those noises she'd make when suddenly stopping in wolf form

>> No.421239
File: 3 KB, 184x172, 1360821684267.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.421249

Yeah, Navi wasn't annoying at all. Midna on the other hand was fucking unbearable and part of the reason I never bothered to finish Twilight Princess.

>> No.421261

Midna was the best, That voice voice, man. It was just so nice and soothing.

But why did she have to be stuck in such a terrible Zelda? Fi, though, had no personality in comparison.

>> No.421270

Twilight Princess is a million times better Zelda game than Skyward Sword, you bandwagoning nitwit.

>> No.421289

Midna was not a sidekick though, she was the main character of the game. Link and even fucking Zelda were afterthoughts at best.

>> No.421296

He didn't say it wasn't, he just said TP was a terrible Zelda, and he's right. Skyward Sword was an extremely terrible Zelda.

>> No.421320
File: 89 KB, 420x600, t04.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.421359

Link was the main character of the game.
He was the protagonist.
Midna was a secondary character, the deuteragonist.
She is the 'side kick' even if she's actually more powerful magic wise. She follows link. The story is central to Link, the one you control who the story is always following.
While the events that take place revolve around her and twilight and Zant. The story is about Link's involvement in that situation and he is the resolution of their problem.

>> No.421383

>The story is central to Link

No. Midna, her people and her plight is the only purpose of the story. Zelda is barely even in the game, and Link is only there to solve puzzles.

>> No.421391

That's not true. He was also there so Ganon would actually have some relevance to the story.

>> No.421403


>> No.421406
File: 242 KB, 620x630, Midna_and_the_Oocca___collab_by_LuisaRafidi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Midna was my favorite sidekick.
She had high relevance to the plot, and a distinct personality.

The downside being that I remember her as also being the most UNhelpful of the sidekicks, aside from what she directly gave you in terms of game mechanics. By which I mean, she almost never gave advice, and for a lot of dungeons she'd have one or two lines dependent on story progression, so she never really gave you an idea of what you were supposed to do.
In a lot of ways that was actually very refreshing, because it meant she'd shut the hell up except for plot sequences (Fi). But every so often I wouldn't be sure what I was supposed to be doing (Water Temple), and Midna would be no help whatsoever.

I guess if you didn't like her personality, she'd be pretty annoying, too, but I always liked the snarky characters as a counterweight to Link's wide eyed heroism. Tatl was probably my second favorite sidekick.
It's not something I think they should add in every game, because it would get old pretty fast. But I wouldn't mind seeing a snarky helper character every couple games or so.

>> No.421423

more midna art please. :3

>> No.421440
File: 9 KB, 243x367, 1362854410021.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Only casuals had problems with her and the water temple, those are the same kind of idiots that found Slippy Toad and Ashley Graham annoying because they asked for help a few time.
In the vidya community if a character asks for your attention more than twice they are instantly labeled as annoying cunts.

Fuck the west, Japan doesn't have such shitty, meme-ridden audience like here.

>> No.421454
File: 24 KB, 209x230, 1363316911780.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I always thought Navi was cute.
Tatl was cuter.

>> No.421461
File: 202 KB, 500x500, Midna__by_Happy_go_Morbid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.421476

I really love her "hello!" And she was a great companion. I was thinking about her and other good useful partners while playing bioshock infinite.

>> No.421480
File: 342 KB, 500x317, 1361648657204.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I played OOT for the first and beat the water temple without any problem, and I only died once in the boss.
Why do people think it's so hard?
I think it was on the same level of skill as the other temples, and I actually thought it was easier than the forest temple.

>> No.421495

But you can, can't you? Just press B and it'll skip through everything in an instant. I never found this to be problematic.

>> No.421501

I think is because of the constant boot switching and short attention span. Those guys are the most vocal and irritating.

>> No.421528

Not so much hard as annoying, in having to navigate the menu continually to switch the iron boots on and off. That sort of thing really negatively impacts your enjoyment. I think people who call it "hard" have got the wrong end of the stick.

>> No.421546

You might be thinking of the Gamecube or 3DS versions.

>> No.421549

The boot switching was pretty fucking annoying, though, especially with the menu taking its time to load. Thank god the remake (and Wind Waker) switched the boots to the inventory. And the whole dungeon felt sluggish because being underwater slows down everything and limits your options to the hookshot. But hard it isn't. Just boring outside of Dark Link.

>> No.421550

she has fur.

>> No.421552


Nobody fucking thinks it's hard.

"water temple isn't hard" is the most common opinion on 4chan.

>> No.421565

Anyone who complains about Navi needs to play Skyward Sword. I was never annoyed by Navi. Even as a seven year old, I was not bothered by her. She was not a problem. Fi on the other hand was absolutely unbearable. UN FUCKING BEARABLE. I hate having to watch a little cutscene just for Fi to tell me something I ALREADY FUCKING KNOW FROM SEEING THE CUTSCENE. And that robot that forned over her...Oh my fucking...

tl;dr Navi gave me no problems.

>> No.421573


I certainly don't think the water temple was EASY. I sometimes see people say "it wasn't hard, just confusing", which is just laughable to me, because if you found the temple confusing I think it's fair to say you found it hard.

Again it wasn't HARD, but I do remember a few points that took me a bit of time. In order to get to dark link, you need two keys; one is under the rising platform in the middle pillar; the other is on the middle floor of the room where you met ruto (you have to bomb the crack in the wall). i found both tough to find, the former because you really don't think of it, the second for the same reason - you can't ENTER that room from the middle floor, so it's tough to think to raise the water level to the middle, enter from the bottom and go up.

Also, I think either after you get the longshot or the boss key, there's a part where there's no real indication of where to go, and you have to get the last key from the very bottom room. That's a part where the map helps.

also i think it had the toughest combat in the game. dark link wasn't easy if you didn't use din's fire. and morpha wasn't that bad, but still the hardest boss (placing the longshot was a bit tricky) and dealt the most damage.

>> No.421592

water temple is easy if you do it in one go. but if you save in the middle, it's a bit tough to find your way

>> No.421608

>dark link wasn't easy if you didn't use din's fire
Doesn't the hammer work too?

>> No.421619

I wouldn't say it was hard, so much as tedious.

>> No.421635

>I certainly don't think the water temple was EASY.
Yeah, what I meant was, it's not really hard compared to the rest of the game. It's not a significant difficulty spike harder than any other part of the game, nor is it one of the easiest parts. I'd say on the whole it flows at about the same rate as the rest of the game, notwithstanding the things that slow down gameplay mentioned in this thread.

>> No.421643

In fact, nobody thinks the Water temple was HARD so much as A HUGE ASS TIME WASTER

Switching boots, playing shitty songs to change the water levels, that underwater half speed, Dark Link fight being a right bitch due to only competent AI in the game, and Morph's I WILL WASTE TEN YEARS OF YOUR LIFE I I HIT YOU attack.

>> No.421757


but water temple is one of the most fun, best designed temples IMO

sure switching the boots is annoying but not THAT annoying, i think its tedium is way overstated. i think it's still an incredibly designed puzzle/dungeon.

>> No.421830

Okay, started playing this game when it came out and TO THIS DAY I have never been hit by Morpha.

There is no way you can say it is a hard fight. Dark Link also isn't too bad if you don't Z Target, which I will give you sounds counter intuitive.

>> No.421956

>and Link is only there to solve puzzles.
And find the pieces Midna needs, and to defeat Gant, and to be central to the story because the story is about Link. Hence why the intro section exists and rescuing the kids who Midna frankly couldn't give a shit about. And being the chosen one with the triforce. And being the protagonist who talks to EVERYONE in the game which Midna only interacts with Link and Zant.
So, no.
He was the central vehicle in which the story revolved around.

>> No.421987

This is the same with Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 and LttP.
All of which are named Zelda and have Zelda, but she is not the 'main' character. Link is, even though his name isn't in the title and the entire events revolved around her being captured or Ganon doing evil shit.
The story we're being told is from Links perspective is about Link and his dealing shit.
If you called it Legend of Midna: Twilight Princess would that make you understand it better?
You need to reasses your understanding of plot essential characters and antogonist/main characters.

>> No.422024

Zelda's in the total story for about 5 minutes.
Link's in the story as the tsunderecar that Midna drives.

>> No.422097

In snowhead temple, majora's mask, I spent about 20 minutes wandering about because I did not know that you had to punch those ice blocks out of the pillar. Then I stood still for 3 minutes and was just about to give up and look up a walkthrough, it was then Tatl almost eerily decided to give me that crucial bit of advice that the icy parts could be punched away.

Other than that I think Navi/Tatl was redundant

>> No.422112

The most annoying thing about Navi was that there were a couple of locations where she would fly over and circle something like she wanted you to examine it more closely, but it was just a featureless piece of ceiling in a cave or some shit.

The "hey! listen!" annoyance comes from the fact that she sometimes didn't want to let you go off on your own and explore, and would keep trying to remind you of your objective constantly if you got off the rails at those times. I think a way to CHOOSE to speak to her if you forgot your objective would have been a much better way of reminding the player about information that had already been given.

>> No.422117

>Link's in the story as the tsunderecar that Midna drives.
Then I'm glad they concentrated on all of midna's village children, oh wait, that was Links.
Well at least they concentrated on the group assisting Midna in providing information and access to new areas so that they could defeat Zant.
Oh wait that was Link.
Well at least the story revolved around Zant attacking twilight and taking over.
Oh wait, that was Hyrule, Link's residing Kingdom. Twilight already happened and was a footnote.
Well at least the story revolved around the people who cared about Midna.
Oh wait, that was Link. Only like six people in the game who knew Midna, and they all totalled like five minutes of time, three of them were non plot essential AI, one didn't even care for that bitch, the wanted to lick her but then spent all his time doting about Link. The third didn't give a shit and only cared about fucking Link up because he stood in his way.

>> No.422130

The annoyance over Navi started out as a joke, a self-aware joke. People knew she really wasn't that bad, but her annoyance was exaggerated for humor purposes. But of course people thought it was totally serious (the raddit crowd comes to mind) and were dumb about it.

>> No.422134

Also, yeah for a tsunderecar, it's funny that she spends like half the game in your fucking pocket while you ride around a horse.
It's also quite ironic that the story pretty much never leaves link, but constantly leaves Midna.

>> No.422137

The most annoying thing about Navi was that there were a couple of locations where she would fly over and circle something like she wanted you to examine it more closely, but it was just a featureless piece of ceiling in a cave or some shit.

When that happens, it usually means you're supposed to play a song - Song of Storms, Sun's Song - to make a fairy appear.

>> No.422150

I thought Navi was cool...

Tatl was cooler though, not to mention way more amusing.

>> No.422161

But you don't HAVE to hit C-up and talk to her when she tries to remind you of the objective.

Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.