>can't do what a fucking SNES can >need a fucking cartridge to run good 2D games Was the Saturn the worst hardware ever made?

File: 37 KB, 260x149, ss.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 09:36:10 2017 No.4138268 [Reply] [Original]

>can't do what a fucking SNES can
>need a fucking cartridge to run good 2D games

Was the Saturn the worst hardware ever made?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 09:42:40 2017 No.4138275 File: 14 KB, 250x159, Burning_Rangers_gameplay.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] in before >B-B-B-B-B-B-B-BUT-BURNING RANGERS yeah, one fucking game

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:05:56 2017 No.4138340 then why was it so FUN

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:08:59 2017 No.4138346 >>4138340 Because it was mostly arcade ports. In other words, much of its library was passed-down table scraps with few original titles actually developed for it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:26:59 2017 No.4138403 >>4138268 >can't do what a fucking SNES can that being?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:35:36 2017 No.4138421 >>4138403 have gayms

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:36:26 2017 No.4138423 >>4138268 waz up bitchboy i heard there was no soundchip watsoeva in da sixtyfour u what mate

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:44:54 2017 No.4138428

>>4138268
what are you going on about

>>4138423
after a certain amount of CPU power, there's basically no real point in having dedicated sound hardware
just mix that shit in software
that's how PCs have been doing it since the mid 90s, when having a good soundcard stopped mattering

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:47:13 2017 No.4138431

>>4138268
Actually the cartridge slot was use for memory expansion. Also it's obvious you've never owned a Saturn. There's good games like Virtual On, House Of The Dead, Nights Into Dreams, Burning Rangers, Fighting Vipers, Virtua Cops, Virtua Fighter 2, Segata Sanshiro, Batman Forever The Arcade Game, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Guardian Heroes, Die Hard Arcade, Rayman, Dracula X(Castlevania SOTN) & Daytona USA.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:49:45 2017 No.4138437 >>4138403 Transparency

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 10:52:58 2017 No.4138442 >>4138431 >Actually the cartridge slot was use for memory expansion. That's what i said

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 11:06:29 2017 No.4138469 You're about 20 years too late for 5th-gen fanboy shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 11:44:12 2017 No.4138532 >>4138268 >can't do what a fucking SNES can ... it can do exactly what the SNES can, and that was the problem - they should've done a more modern design instead. The only thing the SNES can do that the Saturn can't is 256px wide resolution.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 11:49:18 2017 No.4138547

>>4138437
It does transparency the same way the SNES does, it averages together certain sprites and backgrounds. Even has the same faults, with sprites disappearing if they are stuck between a background and a transparent sprite (the green bubble in the ghost house of Super Mario World).

>>4138442
It was used for memory expansion, backup memory, netlink, and it could have been used for 3d accelerators and practically any type of expansion. It had access to every critical part of the system. If production costs weren't so astronomical, they could've made a Megadrive converter (with the full megadrive SOC inside the converter). They even could've made the Dreamcast be a cart that plugs onto the Saturn, offering the exact same performance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 11:50:32 2017 No.4138548 >>4138268 Bbbut Mah shining force! Saturn failed on many levels, but it's still damn impressive what it accomplished. Sure there's better systems but there's a lot of fun to be had.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 12:41:24 2017 No.4138632

>>4138547
the Saturn video system is basically a SNES on steroids
>mode 7+actual background without doing a mid-screen mode switch
>more advanced layer blending
>super jank hard-to-use high-res mode
it was designed as a direct response, honestly

dunno why it doesn't have a 256-wide video mode though, like on the Genesis
default is 352, lowest is 320

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 12:45:44 2017 No.4138637 File: 72 KB, 960x639, e64b0c4f2ad4aae4ee9c07432dfd92bc (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] SNES and Saturn are my 2 favorite systems.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:04:43 2017 No.4138678 >>4138423 >>4138428 The N64 doesn't even mix sound in software, it does it on the vector unit inside the GPU, making it hardware accelerated sound mixing despite what the "lol no sound chip" people seem to believe.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:06:25 2017 No.4138686 >>4138403 have terrible arcade ports

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:11:07 2017 No.4138698 >>4138346 How is having arcade perfect ports """"scraps"""?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:12:25 2017 No.4138705 >>4138421 >easy jrpgs and easy platformers >games

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:14:53 2017 No.4138706 >>4138705 Damn, anon, such a hardcore gamer. Can I be your online friend? You know, just to tell people that I'm friend with a true HardCorck Gaymurh.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:41:23 2017 No.4138741 >tfw bought a Saturn and modded it and then bought an action replay/ram cart >barely ever use it but don't want to sell it console collector feels

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:49:05 2017 No.4138754

>>4138632
>super jank hard-to-use high-res mode

It was actually very easy to use, the only gotcha was that some things were twice as wide/tall, while some were not. Mode 7 ground stayed the same resolution for example.

The big problem was that it only allowed paletted polygons with no shading whatsoever, which was a giant pain in the ass to work with. There weren't enough video memory for proper hi-res sprites, either (if you stream in sprites from ram cart, it takes twice as long to draw them, and the vdp1 had fuck all fill rate).

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:50:07 2017 No.4138759 >>4138698 >How is having arcade perfect ports """"scraps"""? Saturn ports were very fucking far from arcade perfect. They were just an order of magnitude better than what you got in the 16-bit days.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:51:43 2017 No.4138765

>>4138698
>arcade perfect ports
That's stretching it a bit. Metal Slug on the Saturn has more noticeable slow-downs than the NGCD version. Which also had more laggy spots than the MVS version. It's a good port, at any rate.

>>4138741
I get you man. I've got a boxed white saturn and a victor saturn just sitting in a cupboard, alongside the aforementioned metal slug and a few other niceties. I can't imagine I'll play them any time soon, but I can't bring myself to stick it on eBay.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:52:16 2017 No.4138767 >>4138759 Some of them are actually pretty close to being arcade perfect rather than far.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:54:03 2017 No.4138768 >>4138767 >Some of them are actually pretty close to being arcade perfect rather than far. Yeah, the ones running on STV hardware. And not even all of those.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 13:56:29 2017 No.4138772

>>4138768
No, I was talking about games like Vampire Savior or SFA3.
The only nitpicks some people make is "the sound is not 100% the same" or "the resolution is not 100% the same" (even though it does have a option for "arcade wide screen", though I'm not sure if it's the same as on arcade).
Regardless, those games are closer to being like the arcade, than far.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 14:38:08 2017 No.4138829

>>4138772
>(even though it does have a option for "arcade wide screen", though I'm not sure if it's the same as on arcade).

All that does is make the arena width the same as in the arcade. Since the screen aspect is fucked, this just means that you can walk out of the screen more.

Those games you mentioned also have loading between matches. The arcade ones don't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 14:41:07 2017 No.4138836 >>4138765 how would the CD version be more laggy apart from the loading screens it was the exact same hardware just with a cd drive and not a cartridge slot

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 14:41:36 2017 No.4138837

>>4138829
RIght, that's why I say its nitpicks, small details that don't really make the game "far from arcade perfect", actually it's pretty close.

>loading between matches
Vampire Savior lets you skip it, the only loading time is like 5 seconds when you start the game.
Anyway, yeah, obviously a CD-based system will have loading times compared to a cart system. Still it's not "far" from arcade perfect because 1 small load time.
Games that didn't use the 4MB do have more load times, but they're still tolerable (unlike the Neo Geo CD)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 14:43:40 2017 No.4138840 >>4138469 >Can't shitpost about old video games in a forum about old video games

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 14:48:51 2017 No.4138843 Saturn is amazing if you like arcade ports, RPGs, racers, fighters, and shmups. I happen to like all of those. If you don't, I can see why you'd be convinced it was a bad system.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 14:58:35 2017 No.4138852 >>4138268 Had some good rpgs, but not much else

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:01:16 2017 No.4138860

>>4138547
>They even could've made the Dreamcast be a cart that plugs onto the Saturn, offering the exact same performance.

I doubt that could work, the cart slot has serious bandwidth issues.
The Saturn's cart slot has a maximum bandwidth of 50MB/s, which is 5-8x slower than the Saturn's internal data buses run at.

For reference, the N64's cart slot had a maximum bandwidth of 264MB/s, and the Expansion Pak had a bandwidth of 560MB/s.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:02:04 2017 No.4138864

>>4138837
>Saturn has tons of arcade perfect ports!
>can only name 2

>Those two are arcade perfect though!
>except for this thing which isn't, and this other detail which isn't, and it has more loading, and the sound isn't 100% perfect, and the aspect ratio is off, and...

>but it's closer to arcade perfect than not!

Good argument.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:04:19 2017 No.4138870 File: 16 KB, 219x241, 443ff48c-7314-4ab4-bf1c-32d5494dab6c.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is it true that the hardware is just 32x with some 3d stuff jammed onto it.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:06:30 2017 No.4138874

>>4138864
You're misquoting me though.
I wasn't the guy who said Saturn has "tons" of arcade perfect ports, this was my first post itt: >>4138767
I never even said they are arcade perfect, I just said they are closer to being perfect, rather than far.

>>except for this thing which isn't, and this other detail which isn't,
What details? You only ever mention the same things: sound, ratio and loadings.
>and it has more loading
I already commented on this. It's also a nitpick.
>and the sound isn't 100% perfect
Another nitpick
>and the aspect ratio is off,
And another one.

We're just running in cirlces now.
If you want to think that because it has a few seconds of loading, and the sound and ratio aren't 100% like the arcade, and that makes it "far from arcade perfect", then let's agree to disagree.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:08:23 2017 No.4138879

>>4138860
>the N64's cart slot had a maximum bandwidth of 264MB/s,
No, that is incorrect. The N64's cart slot had a maximum bandwidth of 50 MB/s. The programming manual even says so.

>The Expansion Pak had a bandwidth of 560MB/s.
That's because it connects straight into where the RAMBUS terminator for main RAM would normally end..

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:08:42 2017 No.4138880 >>4138864 >There's a lot of reasons why Saturn ports are shit! >can only list 3 rather insignificant reasons Call me back when VS or SFA3 have frames missing, or backgrounds missing or something like that.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:09:25 2017 No.4138882

>>4138860
>I doubt that could work, the cart slot has serious bandwidth issues.

Saturn cart slot has 24bit digital video input, as well as H and V sync available. You can expand it to infinity, the only hard limit is resolution, and electromechanical constrains (powering the extra hardware, whether it fits in the form factor, whatever).

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:12:41 2017 No.4138886

>>4138874
>>4138880
You are saying the games are arcade perfect, I've listed things which make it NOT arcade perfect, but inferior. You are dismissing all arguments as "nitpicking" or "insignificant".

Might as well call Mortal Kombat SNES arcade perfect, because the smaller resolution is a minor detail and the lack of blood is just nitpicking.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:17:48 2017 No.4138891 File: 48 KB, 1280x720, 2338298-hs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4138268 This is what happens when /v/'s favorite e-celeb tells them about the saturn for the first time. every fucking time kek

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:18:07 2017 No.4138893

>>4138886
>You are saying the games are arcade perfect
But I didn't, I just said they aren't "far" from arcade perfect, more like close, but not 100% perfect. Get it?
>You are dismissing all arguments as "nitpicking" or "insignificant".
They are insignificant though, real factors that would make these ports actually far from being like the arcade would be severe frame cuts, missing assets, off physics and controls, stuff like that.
I don't know what your personal problem with the Saturn is, you always show up in Saturn threads to tell people how these ports are shit because "aspect ratio and sound aren't 100% like arcade!". I get you might get triggered when people say they are 100% arcade perfect and you know they're not, but you could point out these things without saying "far from arcade perfect", you are exaggerating it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:28:30 2017 No.4138916 >>4138268 Worst ever? >CDi >3DO >Jaguar >CD32 >7800 No. But it's not good either.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:29:30 2017 No.4138920

>>4138893
>They are insignificant though, real factors that would make these ports actually far from being like the arcade would be severe frame cuts, missing assets, off physics and controls, stuff like that.

That's not how it works you dumb coon.

If it is arcade perfect, then it is 100% the same as the arcade.

If one pixel is off, then by definition, it cannot be "perfect". Close to it, sure, but not arcade perfect.

More to the point, you can play the actual arcade originals way easier and cheaper, so why even fucking bother with the Saturn ports.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:33:14 2017 No.4138930

>>4138920
You are dense, I repeat: I never said they are 100% arcade perfect, I just say they are close, rather than far.
>Close to it, sure, but not arcade perfect.
Glad we can finally agree.
>you can play the actual arcade originals way easier and cheaper, so why even fucking bother with the Saturn ports.
If you already have a Saturn, you can play these games for cheap also, most people who own a Saturn own a modchip, or an AR cart with pseudosaturn.
Also, Saturn ports have extra characters, extra options, etc.
0 input lag, and the Saturn controller pad.
I'm not saying any of this makes it necessarily better than the arcade original experience, but it's a nice option for those who have Saturn.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:55:34 2017 No.4138989 >>4138268 It's time to accept that the only reasons to buy a Saturn are: NiGHTS Panzer Dragoons Burning Rangers That said, those are remarkable games

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 15:58:08 2017 No.4138993 MOAR CORES MOAR! MOAR! MOAR! ...were Sega and AMD separated at birth?

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 16:30:38 2017 No.4139059

>>4138759
Saturn had arcade-perfect ports with loading times, obviously. Street Fighter Zero 3, Marvel vs. Street Fighter, Cotton 2, Dungeons & Dragons Collection as a few examples. Usually games that utilised the 4mb cart.

In some cases the Saturn versions were actually better than the Dreamcast ones.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 16:34:25 2017 No.4139072 >>4138268 Worst hardware? Definately not the controller.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 16:40:51 2017 No.4139089 >>4139059 >Marvel vs. Street Fighter It has heavy frame skipping, very noticeable if you use the larger characters. >Cotton 2 Arcade version runs on a Saturn.... >Dungeons & Dragons Collection A very old game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 16:51:37 2017 No.4139119 >>4139089 >A very old game. 1996 >It has heavy frame skipping, very noticeable if you use the larger characters. Wrong. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ElaBY4LHma0

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 16:52:36 2017 No.4139121 >>4138759 >very fucking far from arcade perfect. No they weren't, at least most of them weren't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 16:59:17 2017 No.4139140 >>4139119 muh arcade perfect cucks btfo

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:11:16 2017 No.4139180 >>4138768 Which STV port weren't perfect? pretty much all of them were >>4139059 D&D isn't arcade perfect at all, Tower of Doom is missing a shitton of animation and Mystara has gameplay inaccuracies.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:30:18 2017 No.4139223 >>4139180 >Tower of Doom is missing a shitton of animation Again, more horseshit. The only difference is 2 players vs. 4 players https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ1sugcF-P0

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:36:11 2017 No.4139232

>>4139223
Are you fucking blind? even a retard could tell the cut animation.

The thing is Tower of Doom was actually ported to the PS1/Saturn many years before D&D Collection on Saturn, but the release of those older ports was cancelled. When D&D Collection on Saturn came out they just used that old Saturn port instead of working on an improved port using the 4MB cart

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:48:39 2017 No.4139258 >>4139232 So the Saturn achieved arcade perfection without even the need for a 4mb cart? Wow, pretty special.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:50:35 2017 No.4139263 >>4139258 >arcade perfection Missing animation, 2 players only and lots of slowdowns is far from perfection you dingus Mystara port used 4MB cart, it has good animation but gameplay inaccuracies, and still 2 players only + shitton of load times

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:51:37 2017 No.4139268 >>4139263 >slowdown meant load times

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:52:12 2017 No.4139270 >>4139263 Give us some examples of what animations are missing in the video here >>4139223

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 17:56:26 2017 No.4139280 >>4139270 The main character animation is the most noticeable one, from the walking, to the attacks, to the victory pose etc, everything is more choppy

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:07:19 2017 No.4139296 >>4139280 Lmao her movement and attacking is exactly the same. And you need some seriously thick-rimmed glasses.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:14:10 2017 No.4139304 >>4139296 >Lmao her movement and attacking is exactly the same Yeah maybe if you are fucking blind, not gonna keep arguing something anyone with an iq over 90 could understand

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:16:43 2017 No.4139310 >>4139304 You can't argue over it because there's nothing to argue about. Get back in your hole autismo maximus.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:20:28 2017 No.4139317 >>4139310 >the fag who refuses obvious animation cut dares to call others autistic wew lad

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:25:11 2017 No.4139335 >>4139317 >How dare you Getting pretty animated over there, are you?

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:27:01 2017 No.4139341

>>4139317
Instead of calling him an idiot or whatever, why don't you point out where the framecuts are?
For example, on the XvsSF video that was posted before, you can clearly see Magneto's arms aren't moving on the PS1 version.
Point out examples like this instead of insulting and calling others on low IQ.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:29:41 2017 No.4139348

>>4139223
>Again, more horseshit. The only difference is 2 players vs. 4 players

That's a big fucking difference mind you, especially since Saturn has multi tap. It's a lazy port.

Also the aspect ratio is off. You can see it best on the store, parts of the screen are cut off.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:33:05 2017 No.4139356

>>4139119
>Wrong.

Those are idle animations.
Do something like a double super, the game will start skipping on every other frame, since it can't keep up with all the stuff happening on screen.

Marvel vs Street is even worse, since it uses more particle effects.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:34:58 2017 No.4139359 >>4139341 I pointed some examples >>4139280 here you retard, it also happens with the other characters, fire animation is also obvious I will not make a video about it just because a brainlet can't see the obvious difference.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:52:31 2017 No.4139398 File: 15 KB, 320x320, segata-sanshiro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Stop bullying Sega Saturn.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:55:51 2017 No.4139407 So if I want perfect ports I should get an AES?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 18:56:46 2017 No.4139409 Great, more Saturn for me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 19:04:43 2017 No.4139421 File: 44 KB, 540x668, 1500273245749.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Saturn isn't the worst console ever but that's only because the jaguar and n-gage existed

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 19:09:52 2017 No.4139437 File: 224 KB, 768x576, Saturn_bios_shot2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4139421 Saturn is much better than the Master System and arguably better than the Dreamcast.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 19:11:13 2017 No.4139439 >>4139421 >>4139421 And the 3DO, CD-i, 32X, Virtual Boy, R-zone, Game.com, Pipin, etc. Don't even pretend the Saturn was anywhere near the worst.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 19:13:01 2017 No.4139441 >>4138268 >Was the Saturn the worst hardware ever made? Saturn was the most powerful of that generation, both in 2D and 3D.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 19:13:22 2017 No.4139443 File: 8 KB, 240x177, n64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4139421 It also wasn't the worst console of its generation. That award goes to this useless piece of shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 19:18:24 2017 No.4139449 >Saturn >bad What the fuck, I have over 120 good games for the Saturn. I probably have more games on SNES but most of them are shovelwares I would never play and garbage JRPGs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 19:19:59 2017 No.4139454 >>4139441 The 3D is so hopelessly convoluted to utilized that it is essentially underpowered. It is however a 2D powerhouse

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 19:23:28 2017 No.4139460 >>4139443 But I love the N64 as much as my Saturn. The fact it's hard to emulate makes N64 more special to own. You're thinking of the Jaguar.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 20:12:07 2017 No.4139559 >>4139441 >Saturn was the most powerful of that generation, both in 2D and 3D. No, it was the weakest in both. It just had more memory to alleviate all of that. If the PSX shipped with as much memory, it would've destroyed the Saturn in 2d.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 20:13:14 2017 No.4139564 >>4139460 It's only hard to emulate if you're a retard. I beat Mystical Ninja 64 on mupen64+ with no issues.

Anonymous Sat Jul 22 20:17:21 2017 No.4139574
File: 170 KB, 640x480, EVANGELION-31.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4139564
You can emulate most games, sure, but there's always graphic glitches everywhere, and if you get to fix them, there's always going to be some other inaccuracy popping up instead, N64 emulation isn't really good, not to mention playing N64 games that use the analog stick with any other controller feels wrong due to the deadzones.

But hey if it works for you, that's fine, it doesn't for me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 20:23:07 2017 No.4139586 >>4139460 >You're thinking of the Jaguar. The JAAAAAAAG is a meme console. I'm talking about the 3 major consoles of fifth gen (PSX, SAT, N64).

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 22 23:01:09 2017 No.4139867 >>4139559 If

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 00:29:06 2017 No.4140032 >>4139559 Maybe if the Saturn didn't have VDP2, but it does, and the additional background layers and perspective-correct infinite scroll planes give it a pretty substantial edge over the PlayStation in terms of 2D.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:15:14 2017 No.4140107 >>4140032 For backgrounds, sure. Not if you want to shit out gorillians of independently moving sprites. VDP2 is useless there.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:19:23 2017 No.4140114

>>4140107
Having a dedicated chip for the backgrounds lets you put more detail in the foreground sprites, which is where the edge over the PS1 comes from, not that the VDP2 alone is in charge of all the graphics, it's about being able to split graphics into 2 different processors.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:35:21 2017 No.4140134
File: 255 KB, 1280x720, snapshot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4140114
>Having a dedicated chip for the backgrounds lets you put more detail in the foreground sprites
In practice Saturn games got a few more layers of parallax that nobody cares about and that's it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:37:07 2017 No.4140137 File: 376 KB, 854x930, joe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4140134 >that nobody cares about Except for Joe Redditor.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:39:19 2017 No.4140140

>>4140134
I care about parallax effects.
Also, take for example Street Fighter Alpha 2. The PS1 version had to cut way more animation frames than the Saturn version, and this is because Saturn had the help of the VDP2 for backgrounds, allowing better character sprite animation, PS1 couldn't with everything and some sacrifices had to be made.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:40:37 2017 No.4140141 >>4140140 You sure that wasn't because of the RAM cart?

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:41:42 2017 No.4140143

>>4140141
No, SFA2 doesn't use it. It still has some frames cut from the original arcade, but it's way closer to the arcade than the PS1 version.
SFA2 was one of the games that convinced people about Saturn's 2D capabilities vs the PS1, back in the day.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:46:22 2017 No.4140151

Comparing specs is really gay because wikipedia lists the Saturn video ram as 12 Mbit but the Playstation ram as 1Mb. I give up trying to argue with you nerds. I still don't see how a background chip is supposed to help with better animations, more likely the Sat just had more stock video ram.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:47:49 2017 No.4140152 >>4140151 When people talk animation, they refer to sprite animation, not FMV.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:50:04 2017 No.4140156 >>4140152 Of course I know that, I'm not that retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:51:03 2017 No.4140158 >>4139441 PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH WATH A FUNNY JOKE, GOOD JOB ANON ... oh you're serious

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:51:14 2017 No.4140159 >>4140152 Wikipedia lists Saturn texture ram as megabit but Playstation texture ram as megabyte, I don't care anymore at this point.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:53:37 2017 No.4140163 File: 2.40 MB, 450x360, pdz.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is this peak Saturn-fu?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:54:37 2017 No.4140165 >>4140163 Unironically some of the prettiest graphics of that generation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:57:42 2017 No.4140171 File: 283 KB, 704x448, panzer-dragoon-ii-zwei-ending-screen-13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4140163 My fav Saturn exclusive for sure.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 01:59:06 2017 No.4140173 >>4140165 >a rail shooter THE POWER OF THE SATURN

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:00:51 2017 No.4140174

Dude why the fuck do you have such fierce opinions about consumer products like if you enjoy video games why bother throwing a fit about a piece of plastic with a different logo, that performs the same basic function (providing interactive entertainment) through slightly different means. Same with people who express their thoughts on smart phone OS's.

I can't take an adult seriously who can look at a console like the Saturn and honestly dismiss it as being worthless, especially when you have to compare it to a competitors previous gen system due to theirs also being a piece of shit

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:01:33 2017 No.4140178 >>4140173 to be fair we keep hearing a rail platformer (Crash Bandicoot) being touted by PS1 fanboys as proof of its superiority over Saturn...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:08:56 2017 No.4140185 File: 137 KB, 1920x1080, IF.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4139867 >If https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poz6W0znOfk

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:14:23 2017 No.4140191

>>4140140
>>4140143
The PS1 port has better voices/sfx than the Saturn one so at least there is something better there.
As for the missing animation it's just the Alpha 2 characters, however in mirror matches they recover perfect animation.
The Saturn port is still better but fans tend to overstate its capabilities a bit, it was the ram that gave it the real edge in fighting games.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:14:34 2017 No.4140192 >>4140174 I can see why some people felt disappointed with the Saturn back in the day though since it cost $100 more than the Playstation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:15:27 2017 No.4140193 >>4140191 ram carts*

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:29:17 2017 No.4140201 >>4140191 playing both though it's highly noticeable, alpha 3 was also junk on ps1 whilst saturn had the best port of it ever done.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:35:00 2017 No.4140206 >>4140201 >alpha 3 was also junk on ps1 whilst saturn had the best port of it ever done. no shit, using THE FUCKING CARTRIDGE

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:35:42 2017 No.4140208 >>4140173 >it's not a genre i like therefore saturn is shit!!! Cool story, kiddo.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:40:59 2017 No.4140218 >>4140208 >i'm retard we know rail shooter = easy to make good graphic for obvious reason

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:50:19 2017 No.4140237 >>4140218 Except it's not? you still have to make fully 3D environments, 3D fighters are way easier (just 2D backgrounds + 3D characters)

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:53:20 2017 No.4140242 >>4140163 it looks incredibly better than the pixel porridge that is the forrest in azel

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 02:58:51 2017 No.4140253 >>4140218 If it's so easy, where's PSX's rail shooter with graphics as good as PD2?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:00:33 2017 No.4140254 >Sony shot down a Radiant Silvergun port because the PSX wouldn't be able to handle a 60fps version of it without severe cutbacks Sonyggers btfo.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:07:51 2017 No.4140265 >>4140254 Except it handled superior Sokyugurentai pretty well with minor downgrades that only autistic saturn fanboys care

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:11:39 2017 No.4140269 >>4140265 RSG is far more technically impressive than Souky.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:14:59 2017 No.4140278 >>4140269 and a shittier game too

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:16:42 2017 No.4140284 >>4140253 No one care at rail shooter back then Even saturnfags

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:22:41 2017 No.4140303 >>4140201 Of alpha 3 is better on saturn it's using ram life support. 1 however is about the same on ps1 and 2 just has better animation in like 4 characters

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:31:05 2017 No.4140313 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg Interesting stuff regarding transparency on the saturn

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:40:55 2017 No.4140320 >>4140303 >Of alpha 3 is better on saturn it's using ram life support. Yeah but it's even better than the dcast and ps2 ports that's my point, i think it's still the best port to date.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:45:59 2017 No.4140332 >>4140320 Nah the PS2 version is arcade perfect, and anyone who play these games seriously want as close to the arcade as possible

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:50:40 2017 No.4140340 >>4140332 No it's not, fag, saturn version was superior, the PS2 version is a shitty emulation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:51:44 2017 No.4140342 >>4140332 >Nah the PS2 version is arcade perfect So is the saturn. >>4140332 >and anyone who play these games seriously want as close to the arcade as possible Then they'll get the cps2 board or use mame.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 03:56:21 2017 No.4140349

>>4140340
>shitty emulation
No it's good emulation.
Saturn version is an old inaccurate port that nobody but unskilled saturn fanboys play to justify their shitty buy decisions, it's worthless from a competition standpoint, PS2 version has both CPS-2 version + the Naomi version with all the extra characters, it's better in every way

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 04:04:40 2017 No.4140362

>>4140342
>So is the saturn.
No it's not, it's basically a different game that was later upgraded to a proper arcade release: Alpha 3 Upper, which was later on the PS2 too.

>Then they'll get the cps2 board or use mame.
PS2 would still be a better third option than Saturn here

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 04:05:12 2017 No.4140364

>>4140237
>you still have to make fully 3D environments
It's far easier to do 3D depth and clipping when you are on rails. Hell, if you go full crazy and basically use a workstation to pre-calculate depth/occlusion data for every single frame of every part of the rail you get Crash Bandicoot.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 04:11:43 2017 No.4140369

>>4140364
Again there are genres that are much less demanding such as 3D fighters, 2,5 platformers, shmups or whatever. Rail shooters still can be hard to make if the environments are big and detailed, which is why House or the Dead or Time Crisis aren't near as good as their arcade releases

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 05:50:30 2017 No.4140482 >>4140364 what is really weird for me is that we talk about Crash Bandicoot like it's a technical marvel. It sure doesn't feel that way when you look at the game itself

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 06:03:46 2017 No.4140509 >>4140482 If they did what they did without depth/occlusion baking it would have been a technical marvel (and you'd be able to adjust the camera too). As it stands, it's more of technical cunning rather than marvel.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 06:23:43 2017 No.4140526 >>4140349 The Saturn is filled with good ports that people recommend to other people interested in buying one plus a whole lotta unique, fun games. What about this simple concept is so difficult for autistic "people" to grasp?

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 06:32:29 2017 No.4140539

>>4140192
The Saturn had an awful launch, but had the better library up until 1997. The PSX early library was garbage, partly because no 2D games were allowed on the system.

But since Sony won the retail war, any somewhat niche Saturn title wouldn't even be on display in brick & mortar stores.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 06:42:15 2017 No.4140551 >>4140526 The problem is Saturnfags like you are so delusional about "muh 2D powerhouse" to the point of making dumb statements like these >>4140320 >>4140340

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 06:45:53 2017 No.4140554 >>4140174 Who cares, we don't want these /v/ kids inflating the game prices even more.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 06:49:04 2017 No.4140556

>saturn is great with 2D!
>symphony of the night is missing half its effects
>animation is tremendously choppy
>buggier than a crackhouse in harlem
The Saturn is rad and all, but come on, be realistic here. It wasn't put together very well, and Sega didn't support it one bit, especially outside of Japan. Though I think that last part was whoever ran Sega US.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 07:00:42 2017 No.4140570 >>4140556 Are you still here shitposting blatent lies? You've already been btfo twice. Looks lke you're desperate to be a three-time loser like Hillary.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 07:02:15 2017 No.4140572 File: 82 KB, 640x652, 5864_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4140253 dont you know,here we go

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 07:04:02 2017 No.4140575 >>4140570 I'm not one of the earlier dudes, I just think the Saturn is pretty overrated right now. I love it myself, all those shmuuuups, but people are sucking its dick way too hard.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 07:04:36 2017 No.4140578 >>4140572 fail

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 07:18:00 2017 No.4140597

>>4140539
>The PSX early library was garbage, partly because no 2D games were allowed on the system
>Raiden Project + DX
>Capcom + Konami + Namco collections
>Megaman X4
>Rayman
>Street Fighter Zero
>Alundra
>Gunner's Heaven
>SoTN
>Strider 2
>Warriors of Fate
>In the Hunt
>Donpachi
>Tomba
>Klonoa
>Panzer Bandit.
>Gradius Gaiden
>R-Types
Nice memes

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 07:29:51 2017 No.4140610 >>4140597 >early >2D >Klonoa >Strider 2 wut?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 10:54:36 2017 No.4140776 >>4140597 Most of those games are post-97 or were also on Saturn. Good job tard.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 10:58:45 2017 No.4140778

>>4140134
>In practice Saturn games got a few more layers of parallax that nobody cares about and that's it.

In practice it could free up a ton of memory for animation since the backgrounds were done on their own chip. Compare any of the Capcom fighters on both machines (even the one without the ram cart).

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 11:04:30 2017 No.4140781

>>4140526
>The Saturn is filled with good ports that people recommend to other people interested in buying one

Except that you can play the original arcade versions for all of those, so "good ports" has not been a good argument since the 00s.

>plus a whole lotta unique, fun games.

Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Azel, and what else? Burning Rangers looks like ass in motion, Nights is ported to every toaster there is, Quake and Duke3d are PC ports with lightning.

I guess Exhumed is okay because the other versions of it are basically different games.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 11:05:32 2017 No.4140782 >>4140578 Omega Boost looks like an Xbox game other than the poor framerate.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 11:47:48 2017 No.4140834 >>4140781 There are recommendation charts available online anon

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 11:54:41 2017 No.4140846 >>4138431 >batman forever the arcade game Please don't troll I agree with everything else though

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 12:58:38 2017 No.4140929 File: 11 KB, 300x329, pipo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Sony fanboys shitting on the Saturn by bringing up the PS2

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 13:39:48 2017 No.4140993

>>4140846
>Being this hard on Batman Forever The Arcade Game
>Possibly because of the bad Batman Forever games on the SNES and Sega Genesis.

Batman Forever The Arcade Game is different from Batman Forever on the Sega Genesis and SNES. But maybe it's just me who loves arcade style beat 'em ups based on movies.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 13:43:42 2017 No.4140998 >>4140993 There are no Batman Forever on the SNES and Genesis, you're probably thinking of Batman Returns.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 13:52:40 2017 No.4141016
File: 167 KB, 640x448, Legend_of_Oasis_(U)-4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4138268
It's kind of nice to know some systems aren't as popular with children. Saturn was incredible, but if you can't see why that's a bonus in my books.

Have fun with your N64 collecathon games.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:02:41 2017 No.4141026
File: 154 KB, 1024x768, tons_o___sega_saturn_games_by_scottfrenz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4141016
It was a great console but I'm always sad when I look at the Japanese release list. I even visited Japan last year and got to weep in person. So many games.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:09:04 2017 No.4141043 >>4141016 >Have fun with your N64 collecathon games. Why did you assume OP was a n64 collector? I like both Saturn and N64, both systems get shit on by plebs.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:17:22 2017 No.4141067 >>4138916 it's probably the worst hardware that people may have considered owning without being retarded, at least if were weren't japanese as it seems the best of the games never really made it west.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:21:44 2017 No.4141079 >>4140776 >Most of those games are post-97 No they arern't you retarded fuck >or were also on Saturn Only a retard would play In the hunt on the Saturn

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:32:36 2017 No.4141107 File: 553 KB, 500x448, guardianoqda3o1_500.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4141043 Just a shot in the dark. I don't really care what he does like, just enjoying the salt.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:34:09 2017 No.4141118 >>4141107 It's kind of lame that you shit on the N64, then post a Treasure game. N64 has great Treasure games that emulate like shit, if you like Treasure, owning a N64 is kind of a given.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:39:57 2017 No.4141140

>>4140265
it slows down really badly in one segment, when you're descending down towards the tanks, and dips more in general
but I still end up playing the game more on PS1 anyway

>>4140482
it's pretty impressive, it puts a ton of polygons on screen at a rock-solid framerate and had huge stages that didn't really fit into memory
it's got a detail level no one though the PS1 could do in 1996
and ignoring that, it was a pioneer in game animation, using vertex deformation rather than just shuffling a set of solid meshes around for limbs and shit

>>4140254
RSG uses VDP2 extremely heavily, and that's basically the only reason it couldn't be easily done without changes (in particular, shit like the big infinite planes you see all over the place would require loads of tiled polygons on PS1 to replicate, and it'd look worse and run worse).
drawing tiles on PS1 is basically just spewing polygons onto the screen as well, like how a hardware accelerated OpenGL 2D renderer would do it in modern times (which is fine, PS1 can put loads of polygons on screen, but it's eating into a relatively limited polygon budget)

>>4140191
PS1 has every reason to have better voices -- it supports ADPCM compression, massively saving space (4 or 8 bit depth samples get expanded to 16-bits using the difference between the current and last sample in the audio), while Saturn has to play back uncompressed 8-bit PCM samples, no compression. Big RAM savings on PS1.

>>4140151
12Mbit is 1.5MByte. Any time you see lowercase b and an oddly high number, divide it by 8 to get units that actually matter (eg, Neo Geo ROM sizes always use Mbit on the box because it's a big number).
Saturn VRAM is also split three ways into three 512kB blocks: screen framebuffer, sprites/textures and background tiles. PS1 instead has a solid 1MB unified block of video RAM (which gets eaten up by the bit you use as the framebuffer, but it's more flexible).

>>4140556
SOTN on Saturn was ported by hacks who didn't know shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:41:51 2017 No.4141146 >>4140158 It was honestly a mistake at this time to move to 3d as everything looked like shit especially when compared to 2d games, which saturn did the best.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:44:12 2017 No.4141160
File: 198 KB, 1440x1080, Magic_Knight_Rayearth_-_1998.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4141118
Every major console has had some gems, but 3 games doesn't save it much in my eyes. Anyways I'm not making fun of the N64, just taking a pot shot at that guy. If you like the system, good for you.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:46:05 2017 No.4141170
File: 158 KB, 277x222, wpj2d.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4141160
3 Treasure games (like on Saturn), but there's more than that, and not all of them are collecthatons.
It's not just that I like the system, I just thought your attitude wasn't really better than OP's.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 14:48:53 2017 No.4141176 >>4141170 >I just thought your attitude wasn't really better than OP's. I wasn't trying to be fair and balanced I was just mocking him for fun. Happened to pick my least favorite console to throw in there, if it offended you, sorry or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:11:44 2017 No.4141378 >>4141118 literally the only worthwhile n64 treasure game is bangai-o and that got a superior version on the dreamcast fuck off n64fag

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:15:17 2017 No.4141390 >>4141378 what about sin and punsshshtnmnt

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:47:23 2017 No.4141464

>>4141140
>PS1 can put loads of polygons on screen, but it's eating into a relatively limited polygon budget

The polygon budget isn't limited on the PS1, it's the texture memory that is limited. Especially if you want to do 2 layers of infinite planes plus two backgrounds behind them.

But I doubt that they couldn't have done RSG on the PS1 properly. A lot of the backgrounds are infinitely repeating tiles (few textures repeated), and some of the bosses aren't even textured at all.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:48:47 2017 No.4141468

>>4141140
>SOTN on Saturn was ported by hacks who didn't know shit.

Even a professional team would have had major problems. SOTN was designed for the PSX from the ground up, taking all of its pros and cons in mind. It is doing a lot of effects the Saturn simply can't do, or can't do well.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:53:57 2017 No.4141476

>>4141468
The problem was they tried to do everything the same way it was done on the PlayStation, rather than doing it in a manner that would've been efficient on the Saturn. VDP1 is getting absolutely hammered by things that could've been done much faster on VDP2.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:55:02 2017 No.4141479 >>4141079 >No they arern't you retarded fuck Look up the release dates you complete and utter remedial. Almost all of these games were released after the Saturn was declared dead in 1997. As i've already said, Bernie Stolar did not allow 2D on the PSX.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:55:28 2017 No.4141483 >>4141378 Haha, look at this triggered fanboy. I just like video games in general, I don't pertake in silly brand-wars like yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:57:00 2017 No.4141487 >>4141390 Tsumi to batsu is top 3 Treasure games.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 16:58:35 2017 No.4141494 >>4138268 Please fucking kill yourself, loser.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 17:00:46 2017 No.4141501 >>4141494 175thpbp

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 17:02:53 2017 No.4141506 >>4141479 The Saturn was still releasing games until 98' and even 99' you retarded fuck, fuck off with your revisionist meme about "muh saturn 2d monopoly"

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 17:07:00 2017 No.4141513 >>4141506 The last Saturn game in the West was in 1998, not 1999. You're replying to a post about how the Saturn had a better line-up than the PSX in the first few years of their release. You don't even know what you're arguing about. You're a mess.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 17:18:53 2017 No.4141547

>>4141513
>in the west
Who cares, westies are retarded and only wanted 3D games at the time, and this applies to both the Saturn and PS1, the Saturn US library was always a disgrace from start to end. In Japan meanwhile there were plenty of good 2D games coming out to both PS1 and Saturn so fuck off.

And even then you are still retarded because the PS1 had more 2D launch titles in the west:

PS1:
>Rayman
>Rapid Reload
>Raiden Project
>NBA Jam
>SF The movie (for better or worse)
+Parodius and Nekketsu Oyako in Japan

Saturn
>Clockwork Knight (and that's stretching it because it's 2,5D)
>...

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:08:47 2017 No.4141657

>>4141547
>Who cares
People in the west? This is a western website after all, why the fuck would we be arguing about the japanese console wars here you imbecile.

>Rayman
Best version on Saturn
>Rapid Reload
Never released in America, because of Bernie Stolar
>NBA Jam
Also on Saturn
>SF The movie
Seriously? Also on Saturn

So much for your incredible 2D line-up. Yes, the Saturn had an awful launch, which is exactly what I said. But it remains true that its library, when it was still actually competing against the PSX, was the superior one. It was a console that lost not on its game library, but purely through marketing and shrewd business practices.

There was a reason Working Designs released all of their 2D games on the Saturn, before moving to the Playstation later. They initially wanted to work on the Playstation, but Bernie Stolar told them to fuck off.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:43:43 2017 No.4141707

>>4141657
>So much for your incredible 2D line-up.
Those were just the launch titles, and it's still much better than just a shitty platformer than isn't even completely 2D lol

>There was a reason Working Designs released all of their 2D games on the Saturn
They worked on both pretty much simultaneously, plus the PS1 didn't have to rely only on Working Designs to localize games because it didn't sold like shit.

>muh superior Saturn library!
>still can't name a single game
yep, saturfags are completely metally-ill, thanks for proving it

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:46:56 2017 No.4141713 >>4141657 Being in the west doesn't mean you can't play japanese games you dumb fuck, how do you even defend the US library Saturn when it was small and shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:47:08 2017 No.4141714 >>4141390 >babby's first rail shmup who cares

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:47:45 2017 No.4141716 >>4141707 >Those were just the launch titles That were also on Saturn except for Gunstar Reload.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:48:56 2017 No.4141719 File: 74 KB, 800x600, SP1432377616495.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4141714 This guy is jelly he doesn't own one of the best games of 5th gen.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:55:46 2017 No.4141735 >>4141716 They took longer time to launch, and Raiden also wasn't on Saturn. So where is your amazing US 2D library anyway? most of Saturn US 2D were multiplats so people just played them in a non-failed console

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:57:57 2017 No.4141737 >>4141735 You don't have anything as pretty as Magic Knight Rayearth or Astal on PS1.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 18:59:50 2017 No.4141739 >>4141719 Collecting for Saturn is much more lucrative, desu.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:02:11 2017 No.4141742 >>4141739 why not both also carts>CDs

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:03:19 2017 No.4141743

whether you love or hate the Saturn, at the end of the day every fifth gen had its great titles and shit titles. whats especially nice about the Saturn is that its extremely import friendly, you dont even need a japanese saturn, just slap an action replay cart in and bam, you can play any jap game you want. luckily in japan the system enjoyed moderate success, so any game that came out in the u.s., you can probably find its japanese counterpart for wayyyyy cheaper, and a good number of the games over there have (enough) english in them. save for rpgs

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:03:50 2017 No.4141745 >>4141719 >best games of fifth gen wew. are all treasurefags this delusional?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:05:15 2017 No.4141748 >>4141743 > at the end of the day every fifth gen had its great titles and shit titles Holy shit the only sane anon in this crappy bait thread.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:05:18 2017 No.4141749 >>4141742 Enjoy your inferior audio and less space, cartfag. The reason Nintendo's only good consoles are NES and SNES is because they kept with carts instead of switching to CD.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:06:07 2017 No.4141751 >>4141745 >if you like a Treasure game, then that means you're a "treasurefag" Anti-treasure guys are the most delusional of all.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:06:46 2017 No.4141754 >>4141737 Nobody cares about magical girl zelda when there is Alundra on PS1. Astal only has graphics on its side, SoTN and Tomba are actually fun to play, if you want a pretty game with meh gameplay like Astal play Lomax

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:07:11 2017 No.4141756 >>4141749 I meant in terms of collecting, it's better to have a cart than a disc. In terms of games, it depends. A lot of games that were released on CD filled the data with useless FMVs and loading times... lots of loading times.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:08:08 2017 No.4141758 >>4141749 Enjoy your loading times, disc rot and tissue paper durability, discfag.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:08:54 2017 No.4141760 >>4141754 >Alundra I can only take so much brown, anon. >SoTN not a PS1 exclusive, probably the best version is on PSP. >Tomba not 100% 2D. >Lomax Looks good, but europlatformers aren't my thing from a gameplay/design standpoint. Also, it's on DOS.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:09:15 2017 No.4141763

>>4141707
>They worked on both pretty much simultaneously, plus the PS1 didn't have to rely only on Working Designs to localize games because it didn't sold like shit.
Ah yes, i'm sure you know more than the CEOs of Sony/Sega and Victor Ireland himself. Are you never not wrong?

>still can't name a single game
Let's go for it then. So, by the time Sega announced the Saturn was done, and they were moving on to the Dreamcast.

PSX notable exclusive games:
Tekken 2
Wild Arms
Ridge Racer
Crash Bandicoot
King's Field 2
Suikoden
Twisted Metal 2
Legacy of Kain

Saturn notable exclusive games:
Virtua Fighter 2
Sega Rally
Manx TT
Daytona
Albert Odyssey
Megaman X3
Iron Storm
Dragon Force
Astal
Shining Wisdom
Guardian Heroes
Nights into Dreams
House of the Dead
Virtua Cop 1/2
Panzer Dragoon 1/2
Legend of Oasis
Parodius
Virtual On
Die Hard Arcade
Megaman 8 (best version)
Dark Savior
Darius Gaiden
Keio Flying Squadron 2
Saturn Bomberman

The Saturn absolutely demolished the PSX in 1996 and well into 1997.

>>4141713
How many Americans imported Japanese games back in 1996? Your point is moot and not relevant to this debate.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:09:55 2017 No.4141764 >>4141751 He's right though, only a Treasurefag would consider a game you can easily get a blind 1cc in to be one of the best of its time.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:11:54 2017 No.4141767 >>4141764 >believe me guise! I 1cc'd the game on my first try. Yeah yeah, I also 1cc'd every game ever, so what? >still forcing your treasure hateboner. I don't care about your company-specific antics, I just like games, not companies.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:19:24 2017 No.4141782 >>4141763 That's is some embarrassing cherypicking, and half of those Saturn "exclusives" were inferior arcade ports that were ported to PC too kek

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:22:47 2017 No.4141787 >>4141782 >b-but they suck and stuff so nyuuh! Wew what a pathetic and totally predictable reply. Stay btfo you salty redditor

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:24:58 2017 No.4141795 >>4141787 >salty redittor >coming from the retarded saturn warrior cherrypicking inferior arcade ports and omiting 90% of the PS1 library to justify his shitty buy decisions yeh right

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:38:33 2017 No.4141829 >>4141787 >>4141795 Saturn and PS both have great games, you two are acting like idiots.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:50:05 2017 No.4141842 >>4141829 I agree with you, it's the faggot saturn warrior that can't admit that the PS1 had a good library

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:51:15 2017 No.4141845 >>4141842 or the sony cockroach that can't accept the Saturn had a pretty good library despite failure launch in the west.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:51:22 2017 No.4141846 >>4141829 Undoubtedly. However it's clear to anyone who isn't shitposting that most of the PS1's great games came out in 98/99/00

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 19:56:30 2017 No.4141853

>>4141845
That was my point since the beginning you retard, the Saturn has a pretty good library mostly because of its japanese relative success, in the west they got like 1/3 of the library and this faggot above somehow is disregarding japanese imports as an argument: >>4141657 >>4141763
Even 90s niggers knew that Saturn was all about the japanese library https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSeO9vm8wVA

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:00:19 2017 No.4141856 >>4141853 Nah you're just too dumb to realise that you are making a completely different argument. What happened in Japan has no bearing on the fact Saturn had a better library than the PS1 in America back in mid '97

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:02:28 2017 No.4141858

>>4141856
>What happened in Japan has no bearing on the fact Saturn had a better library than the PS1 in America back in mid '97
Except it didn't but just keep believing that in your fantasy cherrypicked world where the Saturn wasn't a disaster in the west you saturnfag

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:05:09 2017 No.4141864 >>4141858 He's right, PS1's early library wasn't better than the Saturn, the difference started around 1998, when games like FF VII and MGS released.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:06:41 2017 No.4141869 >>4138989 Saturn bombeman is the best bomberman and shmupmame isn't perfect so a lot of those are worth playing on Saturn. Also SF3 and Holy Ark, princess crown, guardian heroes, utena visual novel and tons of good arcade fighters racers etc

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:11:37 2017 No.4141884

>>4141864
FF7 was released in 1997. Not to mention they were still releasing Saturn games in 1998 like Burning rangers or SF3, that just weren't enough to compete

>>4141869
>and shmupmame isn't perfect
Neither are Saturn ports, except for the STV ones which were indeed pretty good.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:12:59 2017 No.4141890 >>4140192 Except it didn't, because PSX didn't come with a game or memory card, it was like 25 dollars more than the PlayStation if you actually wanted to use it on the day you bought it

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:13:45 2017 No.4141892 >>4139119 >Ryu makes it unscathed because his frame count is so low lel

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:21:47 2017 No.4141904 >>4141884 So if the Saturn sucks because it isn't perfect and emulation sucks because it isn't perfect then anyone who doesn't buy an arcade cabinet to play Battle Garegga is an autistic moron, right then

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:23:42 2017 No.4141908 >>4141904 Have you ever been to shmups forums? Yes, these guys have dick measuring contests about who has the most original arcade PCBs. Especially non-retro ones like ESPgaluda and all that.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:27:12 2017 No.4141914

>>4141904
Never said that, it's still fun to play ports even if they aren't perfect, just stating that there is no logical reason to prefer Saturn ports over Mame except for the STV ports
Garegga Saturn port was good but now we have the definitive version (PS4)

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:29:27 2017 No.4141918

>>4141914
>just stating that there is no logical reason to prefer Saturn ports over Mame
Well, for one, Saturn ports are actual ports to the Saturn hardware, MAME is still emulation.
Saturn ports often have extra features, and the best of all is probably the Saturn pad. You can get an USB Saturn pad on PC, though.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:32:19 2017 No.4141924

>>4141918
>Well, for one, Saturn ports are actual ports to the Saturn hardware, MAME is still emulation.
Accurate emulation is always better than inaccurate ports, especially when it comes to shmups. Nobody who is seriously into Dodonpachi for example would play the inaccurate Saturn port over a perfectly emulated arcade version.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:34:10 2017 No.4141930 >>4141924 >accurate >emulation pick one

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:35:57 2017 No.4141932 >>4141930 Much more accurate than some port with arbitrary gameplay changes all over the place, that is for sure. In an ideal world it's always better to play the PCB, but Mame is the second best option most of the time

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:51:41 2017 No.4141959

>>4141476
>The problem was they tried to do everything the same way it was done on the PlayStation, rather than doing it in a manner that would've been efficient on the Saturn.

This is not correct. The game uses the VDP2 extensively.

The problem is that the game uses
- 256px width resolution
- a lot of gouraud shading based special effects
- sometimes extreme amount of parallax
- tons of transparency effects

Saturn doesn't have 256px mode, so everything had to be resampled, which makes everything look ugly and take more memory.

Gouraud shading can be done on the Saturn, but only in RGB mode (technically it can be done in cram mode, but it requires a lot of setup, and is limited to something like 16-steps only).

Parallax can be done on the VDP2, but SOTN sometimes uses a lot of it, more than the VDP2 can. So some layers have to be done with VDP1.

This means that some sprites have to be UNDER the VDP2, while some are ABOVE them. This is only possible with cram sprites. Because an RGB sprite is 15bits for colour, and a MSB set to 1 to tell the VDP2 that it is an RGB pixel, and there is no space for priority.

Cram sprites have 15 bits divided up between cram index, shadowing, priorities, and blending ratios (there are 16 different cram sprite types, that differ in how many bits do either of those use). They can be set up to appear under backgrounds, or above them.

So you *have* to use cram sprites, which means you *cannot* use sprite-on-sprite transparency, and it is *extremely* difficult to use gouraud shading (I know of 5 games in total that do it). Because of this the game can only use blending against backgrounds, and the only time this is done with sprites is if they are guaranteed to not have anything between them and the background (because anything inbetween will disappear).

In fact if the game used only VDP1, then it could allow for proper sprite on sprite blending and shading, and it would look 5x better. But probably slower too.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 20:56:25 2017 No.4141965

>>4141959
cont.

So for performance reasons they had to use the VDP2, which means they could only do limited transparency. You probably know of the bug that when you blend a sprite to a background, everything inbetween the two will disappear (the colour between them was overwritten). So for that reason they had to limit blending to areas where there is guaranteed that nothing is overlapping.

With a game so large, this happens only very few times. The candles on the wall do this, the blue doors do this (their collision prevents you from overlapping with them), the fight with Shaft works that way (he is always the lowest sprite in front of a fixed background), and the ghouls on the Saturn exclusive dungeons work like that too (they only appear there, so they can set them up to be the lowest sprite at all times).

A more competent developer could have only fixed annoyances like the CD corridors not working, the map not being an overlay, or the options taking ages to come up. Maybe make some backgrounds look better (use the mode 7 effect where applicable), or make the framerate better.

But the game would still not be as good as on the PSX, the hardware is simply not up to it.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:16:50 2017 No.4142007

>>4141924
Accurate emulation? MAME still has difficulty emulating the sound for Batman Forever The Arcade Game. The port of Batman Forever The Arcade Game for Sega Saturn is still superior than playing it on MAME, because at least the Saturn version still has sound.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:24:30 2017 No.4142027 >>4142007 That's just one exception of a silly american beat 'em up not many people play, most of the impotant games in the 90s are pretty well emulated on mame.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:31:33 2017 No.4142040 >>4141924 People who are seriously into DDP own the PCB. And your score will be taken more seriously if done on a console port than if you played on an emulator.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:31:36 2017 No.4142041 File: 314 KB, 787x733, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4142027 >Silly American Beat 'em up >Expensive to buy complete on Ebay.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:36:42 2017 No.4142047

>>4142040
False, the top scores in the west were played on MAME and they are widely accepted as legit scores by the community, nobody plays or take seriously PS1 or Saturn scores because the ports are stupidly inaccurate.

>>4142041
Do you seriously value game quality based on how much they cost?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:39:42 2017 No.4142051 >>4142047 >nobody plays or take seriously PS1 or Saturn scores because the ports are stupidly inaccurate. They do, they just aren't put in the same category as the arcade version.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:43:35 2017 No.4142056 >>4142051 I don't know anyone who primarly plays the ports over the arcade version, people just focus on PCB or Mame which is the second best option to play the game

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:45:54 2017 No.4142059

>>4142047
Where did I mention quality? I just disproved that it was "silly". Collectors are trying hard to own this game on either a Saturn or a PS1, hence why it's so pricey. To tell you the truth, the game is worth at least $20.

As far as quality goes, at least both the Saturn & PS1 version has sound, unlike MAME.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:51:51 2017 No.4142062

>>4141763
shit people might actually bought on PS1 in 1995 (USA):
>NBA Jam
>Ridge Racer
>Air Combat
>Mortal Kombat 3
>Jumping Flash
>Tekken
>Primal Rage
>Doom
>Wipeout
>Warhawk
>Rayman
>Battle Arena Toshinden

shit random people might have bought on Saturn in 1995 (also USA):
>Clockwork Knight
>Bug!
>Astal
>Daytona USA
>Galactic Attack
>Panzer Dragoon
>Rayman
>Shinobi Legions
>Primal Rage
>Virtua Cop

So there's a fairly even amount of games on each, but let's look closer:
>Virtua Fighter 1 looks like ass next to Tekken, and it's not like Tekken was ever pretty, enjoy that pop-in on a stage only a few meters wide, too; Toshinden looks better than both (it's not as good as either, but hey, it looks better)
>Ridge Racer and Wipeout on PS1 wipe the floor with Daytona on Saturn (if I included Cyber Speedway in the Saturn list, it still gets completely trounced. and let's not mention Virtua Racing)
>most of those 3D games on Saturn run like ass compared to the ones available on PS1 and look worse (Panzer Dragoon looks amazing, but that's it)

this is all being looked at with the perspective of someone who's getting a fancy next-gen machine at around Christmas in 1995
I ignored sports games on both, but they run worse on Saturn anyway.
let's not get into 1996 either, since Saturn's fate was already sealed in 1995 (and it also comes up worse again)

Admittedly, Saturn could have had a chance if anyone had a Saturn, but Sega totally fucked that one up right out the gate, and people weren't going to bother with the more expensive machine that was already having issues with supply and had worse graphics than the upcoming Playstation.

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:52:53 2017 No.4142063

>>4142059
>>4142059
I think the yuropoor versions are cheaper, but anyway just burn a disc if you want to play it. Like I said Mame isn't always perfect (especially with unremarkable obscure games like this one), but most of the time it's pretty good, most shmups/fighters on PS1/Saturn are pretty much flawless on Mame

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 21:57:55 2017 No.4142065 >>4142062 Virtua Fighter Remix came out 1 month before Tekken 1, and VF2 came one month after Tekken 1, I'd say Saturn gave a better impression for 3D fighters in those days. Kinda agree with the rest tho

Anonymous Sun Jul 23 22:03:09 2017 No.4142073

>>4142065
honestly forgot about VF Remix
but more importantly, I have no idea how I forgot the VF2 was released December 1995, that one's a big gaffe

VF2 is fucking magic and blows the PS1 fighters from that time out of the water with actual 480i 60fps rendering

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 22:56:47 2017 No.4142157 >>4142040 >And your score will be taken more seriously if done on a console port than if you played on an emulator. People who play DoDonPachi consider the console ports to be a completely different game that shares the name.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 22:58:40 2017 No.4142160 >>4142065 VF Remix was packed in with the console as an apology for how shit the VF port was. It is also why they sold a shit load of the console in Japan (same effect as when they packaged Sonic next to the Genesis).

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 23 23:41:03 2017 No.4142230 >>4142063 I already own the game on PS1, I'm just surprise it's cost more on ebay than what I paid for($11). But at least we both can agree that MAME isn't perfect, I do enjoy playing games like Splatterhouse, Batman(1989) and Ninja Turtles on MAME.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 00:03:02 2017 No.4142273 >>4138437 Saturn can do transparency in a few ways. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 00:39:34 2017 No.4142329 >>4138437 >he fell for the "Symphony of the Night is the golden example of every 2D Saturn game" meme

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 00:58:12 2017 No.4142361 What's the best Saturn controller

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 00:59:43 2017 No.4142365 >>4142361 japanese one, not the american one with the disgusting d-pad and weird shoulder buttons

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 02:04:29 2017 No.4142442 >>4141930 He's right, in the case specifically of DDP some of the high level chaining isn't even possible because of differences in the port obviously this will only affect good players which is basically 0.1% of the west.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 02:08:23 2017 No.4142449

>>4140349
>Saturn version is an old inaccurate port
mate you are talking utter shit, the saturn port of alpha 3 is notorious as the best in fact for a long time it was held as above all the newer ports, the ps2 port is very close and usually preferred because it's miles cheaper.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 03:54:56 2017 No.4142581

>>4141140
>it was a pioneer in game animation, using vertex deformation rather than just shuffling a set of solid meshes around for limbs and shit
Nah, that's just the usual hagiographic bullshit from Naughty Dog. Mario 64's title screen used vertex animation too and it was released before Crash Bandicoot.

Andy Gavin's blog is a great resource, but you have to filter out the "pat-myself-on-the-back" bullshit that's on there. Like when he said that Naughty Dog were the only company at the time to use Silicon Graphics workstations for 3D game development, a claim that is obviously wrong.

>while Saturn has to play back uncompressed 8-bit PCM samples, no compression
That's true for the most part but it's worth noting that Saturn games which came out near the end of the console's life like Burning Rangers did ADPCM in software.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 04:03:04 2017 No.4142592 File: 38 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4138431 >Batman Forever The Arcade Game Saturnfags are THIS desperate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F83EtbW05Qg

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 04:13:38 2017 No.4142604

>>4142449
Nigger for the last time the Saturn "port" is a different game that difer from the original CPS-2 release, it means nothing for arcade veterans. These home "ports" were later translated into a proper arcade release on the Naomi years later to attract proper competition called SFA3 Upper. The PS2 version contains both the original CPS-2 version (the one everyone play) and Naomi one, it's the definite home release.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 07:20:41 2017 No.4142785 >>4142604 >Nigger for the last time the Saturn "port" is a different game that difer from the original CPS-2 release, it means nothing for arcade veterans. Stop bullshitting, poser.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 08:18:22 2017 No.4142835

>>4142581
>That's true for the most part but it's worth noting that Saturn games which came out near the end of the console's life like Burning Rangers did ADPCM in software.

1. that's all software and reportedly takes up almost all of the slave SH2 to do
2. The jingle you hear when the console turns on is ADPCM. It's not some late great technique, it was used from the start. But they had to use it sporadically because of the cpu overhead; usually for just one single stream of background music, NOT multiple voices continuously.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 08:20:02 2017 No.4142839 >>4142835 I guess what I'm trying to say is that it took until the end of Saturn's life before they worked out how to free up enough CPU for ADPCM.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 08:25:15 2017 No.4142847 >>4142839 Which is wrong because they already figured it out in 1994.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 08:26:39 2017 No.4142850 >>4142847 But how many games in 1994 used ADPCM on Saturn?

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 09:11:07 2017 No.4142896

>>4138632
A lot of consoles were developed as a direct response to others. You can see a lot of the N64's design in the PS2 for example, and the PS1 in the Dreamcast's design. Actually it's pretty funny, all of the 6th gen console aside from Dreamcast are based on the N64's design.

Sony looked at the N64 for the PS2 and said "Why don't we turn this architecture up to 11?" And thus you had programmable vector unit Emotion Engine insanity.

Nintendo looked at the N64 for the GameCube and said "Gee developing for this thing was hard. Let's literally design its successor to do almost everything opposite." And thus you had a console that was easy to program but no hidden raw strength.

Microsoft looked at the N64 and said "Let's try to do it better with expensive PC parts." And thus you had a console that was powerful and easy to program though it had unified memory architecture and programmability, but cost a gorillian dollars to manufacture.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 09:39:00 2017 No.4142930

>>4142062
The launch was a disaster for Saturn but you can't say a launch alone completely sealed its fate. It got an incredible year in 1996 with far superior games to the Playstation yet nothing changed because most of these games were never even displayed in large chain retailers.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 09:43:55 2017 No.4142937

>>4142930
>The launch was a disaster for Saturn but you can't say a launch alone completely sealed its fate.

In North America, yeah, it did. They could not supply every store chain, and the ones they couldn't, thought that Sega was having exclusive contracts with the others behind their backs, stopped carrying their stuff completely, and never balked on that.

The games were okay, yeah, but the screwed up launch made it so that you couldn't find Saturns everywhere for its entire life time.

That, and parents refused to buy Saturns after the 32x fiasco.

No Genesis compatibility was also a problem.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 13:32:21 2017 No.4143368 >>4142850 At least two.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 13:34:15 2017 No.4143372 >>4142785 It's true though retarded fanboy, what I want in a port is accuracy, no dumb changes all over the place

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 13:39:04 2017 No.4143380 >>4143372 Not him, but what changes are there on the Saturn version of Alpha 3 compared to the arcade?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 13:40:46 2017 No.4143383 >>4140539 Black boxed RE1 says differently.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 13:40:48 2017 No.4143384 >>4140173 Nigger. The best N64 game is also a rail shooter

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 13:55:26 2017 No.4143413

>>4142896
>Actually it's pretty funny, all of the 6th gen console aside from Dreamcast are based on the N64's design.

Okay, this N64 fanboy bullshit is getting out of hand.

They didn't all suddenly looked at the N64 in awe and decided to copy it. It was the industry itself that started generally implementing SIMD instructions and programmable T&L and then pixel/vertex shading, a process of which SGI was the forefather (and the N64 was a cut-down version of their workstations).

PS2 wasn't even that at all, other than also using RDRAM like the N64. PS2 had something like 128 improved PS1 gpus chained in parallel with a metric fuckton of memory bandwidth, and the cpu got two SIMD units that could fuck with the gpu equally fast. The GPU itself wasn't programmable, it was just so fast that you could program it from the CPU side and get the same results. It was a "dumb" gpu with insane speed to make up for it.

Xbox was your average DirectX implementation. Somewhere along its ancestry it might have had OpenGL as a base, but not the N64 specific implementation, but the original SGI one. It is at best a distant cousin twice removed to the N64, not "based on the N64's design".

And no, they didn't copy the unified memory from the N64, not any more than the N64 copied it from the C64.

Gamecube is a valid point, except that Nintendo had fuck all to do with that, the same SGI team who did the N64 looked at the most common complaints, and made a new chip for Nintendo that addressed those complaints.

Next time you'll be saying that the N64 was DirectX12 compatible because it could do tiling and tessellation (if you programmed it to do it...).

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 14:18:57 2017 No.4143460

>>4143413
The Emotion Engine vector units are extremely similar to the vector unit in N64's GPU. Extremely fucking similar. Combine that with RDRAM, and at best you could say the PS2 is a hybrid of ideas from PS1 and N64. The console's GPU itself is pure PS1 though.

As for the Xbox, comparing it to the C64 is stupid. That wasn't a 3D machine. The Xbox on the other hand broadly resembles an N64. You've got your CPU, your entirely unified memory, and your programmable GPU. Your average DirectX 7+ implementation came from GeForce 256, which, guess what, was a GPU heavily inspired by the N64's GPU (single chip T&L + rasterizer).

Obviously neither console is *directly* descendant from the N64 except the GameCube, but the influence of ideas is there. Just like how the anon above said that the Saturn hardware shows influence from the SNES in several places. Even though Sega didn't make a SNES. Is it really that hard to understand?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 14:22:16 2017 No.4143470 File: 34 KB, 604x453, j.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4143413 >getting triggered by techno babble by spouting even more techno babble

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 14:23:54 2017 No.4143475

>>4142581
>Mario 64's title screen used vertex animation too and it was released before Crash Bandicoot.
Mario 64 was developed at around the same time, and Mario 64 doesn't use at all it in-game.
Crash is one of the earliest games I can think of that uses it extensively.

>Like when he said that Naughty Dog were the only company at the time to use Silicon Graphics workstations for 3D game development, a claim that is obviously wrong.
yeah, that one's a bit dumb, it's not like Nintendo wasn't making a machine with SGI hardware at the time and advertising how shit like Donkey Kong Country and Killer Instinct were made on SGI machines, and that's just the first example that comes to mind

admittedly, no one else on the Playstation was doing it though

>>4141464
every boss in RSG is fully textured except the last boss and that wireframe one in stage 2

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 14:33:35 2017 No.4143495

>>4142937
>That, and parents refused to buy Saturns after the 32x fiasco.

Parents did not even know that a 32x was.
Most parents including my own used the word Nintendo to refer to everything from Xbox to Dreamcast to 3DO.
If they even knew the Saturn was the next generation of the Genesis it was because their son told them.
What fiasco? Can you link to any news article that's not from a gaming mag?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 14:59:07 2017 No.4143539 >>4143380 The roster itself is a huge difference that change the game itself, +some gameplay mechanics changes

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 15:01:25 2017 No.4143543

>>4142930
>It got an incredible year in 1996 with far superior games to the Playstation
What's the point of having good games one year if you suck every other year. Also

Saturn
>Nights
>Panzer Dragoon 2
>Guardian Heroes
>Daytona rehash with bad controls
>Fighting Vipers
>Virtual On
>Virtua Cop 2
>...Mr Bones
>Battle Monsters
>Bug Too
>Congo the Movie
>Batman arcade

vs.

>Resident Evil
>Crash Bandicoot
>Wipeout XL
>Tekken 2
>Star Gladiator
>Tobal
>Zero Divide
>Ridge Racer revolution
>Blood Omen
>Soul Blade
>Suikoden
>King's Field 2/3
>Raystorm
>Twisted Metal 2
>Jumping Flash 2
>Motor Grand Prix
>Descent
>Dark Forces
>Tecmo Deception
>Namco Musseums
>Lomax

Keep dreaming saturnfag, you mostly got a bunch of inferior port that were better played on the local arcade

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 15:10:53 2017 No.4143553 >>4143543 wipeout XL got a saturn port a year later, and it's better than the PS1 version

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 15:16:06 2017 No.4143558 >>4143553 >waiting 1 year for an inferior port with shitty framerate LOL

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 15:23:36 2017 No.4143568 N64 > Saturn > PS1 >power-wise PS1 > Saturn > N64 >library-wise

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 15:33:54 2017 No.4143583 >>4143460 >As for the Xbox, comparing it to the C64 is stupid. That wasn't a 3D machine. wow, way to miss the fucking point...

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 15:40:46 2017 No.4143594

>>4143495
>Parents did not even know that a 32x was.

I've spoken to a few guys in the USA who are buying and playing Saturn gear today, because they wanted it a lot but their parents refused to buy it after they got ripped off with the 32x.

>If they even knew the Saturn was the next generation of the Genesis it was because their son told them

And before that it was the Sega CD that was the new generation of the Genesis, then you had a Genesis 2 and a Sega CD 2 (same console, yes, but it has 2 written on it so it is newer and better!). Meanwhile you had the JVC X'Eye and the CDX. Then the 32x, which was a real super upgrade for sure this time! It got something like 5 games, a bunch of ports of existing games, and then the next shiny new thing was the Saturn half a year later.

>What fiasco?
Consumer fatigue with the constant new hardware.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 16:20:41 2017 No.4143680 a yard sale next door to me has a Yobo Neo Fami. lel should i buy

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 16:25:20 2017 No.4143689 >>4143543 >got a bunch of inferior port that were better played on the local arcade This is pretty ironic and funny coming from no less than a Sony cockroach.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 16:29:56 2017 No.4143696 >>4143689 >faggot is so mad that can't give a proper counterargument yeah enjoy your poor man's model 2 dude

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 16:32:45 2017 No.4143704 >>4143696 Mad? and what counter-argument? I don't even own a Saturn, I'm laughing at a Sony fanboy talking about bad arcade ports, it's ironic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 16:38:07 2017 No.4143712 >>4143704 It's true though retard, 3D ports on the Saturn were often inferior, Daytona was a fucking disaster and they couldn't even port the original Virtua Fighter properly

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 16:45:54 2017 No.4143726 >>4143712 So you're cherrypickin Daytona and VF1 while ignoring VF1 Remix, VF2, Sega Rally, Virtual On? Why not look at the amount of awful arcade ports PS1 got, both 3D and 2D?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:06:03 2017 No.4143761 >>4143543 >filtering half of the Saturn list and being forced to invoke bad pc ports just to pretend you've won Guardian Heroes, Dragon Force and Saturn Bomberman are better than every game on that list, by the way.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:11:54 2017 No.4143779

>>4143726
> VF2, Sega Rally, Virtual On?
All quite inferior to the original Model 2 release, Virtual On has some pretty awful slowdowns, VF2 scenery is laughably bad compared to the arcade, Sega Rally is as a good as the already 1 year old port of Ridge Racer, meanwhile Daytona and Virtua Racer on Saturn were dreadful

>Why not look at the amount of awful arcade ports PS1 got, both 3D and 2D?
Let's see
>Soul Blade
Pretty much the same as the arcade, + extra modes
>Tekken 1 and 2
Same as the arcade
>Tekken 3
Missing some background effects but otherwise perfect, + extra modes
>Rival School
Same as the arcade
>Star Gladiator
The same as the arcade
>Raiden I/II/DX
As good as the arcade
>Irem/R-type
Perfect
>Konami collections
Pefect
>Capcom
>In the Hunt
Better than Saturn, allows original arcade soundtrack and option to reduce slowdown
>Namco Musseums
All perfect.

The only advantage you sad Saturnfags cherrypick always is >muh ram cart 2D fighters

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:16:16 2017 No.4143790

>>4143761
>Guardian Heroes
Pleb's first belt scroller, plus PS1 got superior Panzer Bandit one year later
>Dragon Force
Always found it a borefest but anyway PS1 had a shitload of tRPG to offer
>Saturn Bomberman
57th rehash in the series

You sure got me impressed

You sure got me impressed

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:23:02 2017 No.4143827

>>4143779
>same as arcade

Bullshit and you know it, all these ports of 3D games have worse textures, to begin with.
"Extra modes" isn't an argument, since you don't have it into account when you attack Saturn ports either.
Plus, none of these 3D fighting games can compare to the hi-res 60fps greatness that is VF2 on Saturn,even if the backgrounds aren't the same, but hey, it has extras too.
As for games like r-type and other shooters, sorry they aren't perfect either, check the resolution.
How does it feel to be a hypocrite, sony cockroach? The same arguments you use to attack Saturn ports can be used for PS1 ports. And the best part is, Saturn still has the better games.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:23:37 2017 No.4143830 >>4143779 >4143338 gettin rambolized lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:24:08 2017 No.4143832 >>4143790 Salty sonygger is salty. Nobody cares about Panzer Bandit, also lol you had to wait a whole year.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:25:06 2017 No.4143837 >>4143790 Oh i'm sure the only thing that impresses you are ebin shitposts on /v/. It's much easier to bait for replies over there, by the way.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:27:36 2017 No.4143846

>>4143539
>The roster itself is a huge difference that change the game itself
because of evil ryu and the like? or what do you mean? Extra characters don't really change the base game though, you can opt to not use them.
>+some gameplay mechanics changes
Do you have any examples?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:28:39 2017 No.4143850 >>4143790 At this point I believe all sonyggers ITT are just falseflagging sixth gen kiddies mad that PS2 isn't accepted here on /vr/.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:31:39 2017 No.4143860 >>4138431 You missed the only good Saturn game Sega rally championship

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:32:24 2017 No.4143863 >>4143846 isnt it that the psp version got nu characters for example ingrid?

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:33:38 2017 No.4143871

>>4143726
>VF1 Remix
Same as VF1 but with textures. woo.

>VF2
Heavily downgraded models, zero backgrounds, zero lightning. It's the equivalent of a SNES version of a Neogeo fighter.

>Sega Rally, Virtual On?
Heavily downgraded again.

>Why not look at the amount of awful arcade ports PS1 got, both 3D and 2D?

PS1 got way better arcade ports for 3d games. Saturn was only better for 2d because it had more memory; give the PS1 the extra 512k memory (or the later 4mb carts) and it would have the same quality 2d ports as the Saturn too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:34:21 2017 No.4143875 >>4138268 Rayman, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Phantasy Star collection, Megaman X3, Megaman X4, and Megaman 8 are just some 2D Sega Saturn games that are at least decent if not great.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:36:01 2017 No.4143884

>>4143827
>all these ports of 3D games have worse textures
Prove it faggot, the sacrifices are minimal compared to how fucking downgraded the Model 2 ports are on the Saturn.

>Plus, none of these 3D fighting games can compare to the hi-res 60fps greatness that is VF2 on Saturn,
Virtua Fighter 2 looks like garbage because the 2D background zooming is all over the place, the games I named have better and more accurate backgrounds plus run at 60 fps too, they are much closer to the arcade.
Soul Blade runs at 30 fps but its backgrounds make Virtua Fighter 2 saturn look like garbage

>but hey, it has extras too.
Shitty extras, I don't remember a beat 'em up mode or a quest mode in VF2.

>As for games like r-type and other shooters, sorry they aren't perfect either, check the resolution.
Wrong faggot, R-Type had the same resolution.

Saturn warrior getting desperate defending his poverty Model 2 machine uh

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:39:57 2017 No.4143901

>>4138268
The theory behind how the Saturn was designed to work is pretty solid and arguably ahead of its time. It could handle 3D just fine with some work, though was designed for 2D games.

However, the console was a rush job mess. Its operating system is a complicated spider-web of code. Developers hated porting things over to it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:43:47 2017 No.4143918 >>4143884 dont compare the wrong games that would be last bronx vs soul blade

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:44:49 2017 No.4143925

>>4143884
>the sacrifices are minimal
Because the games you mentioned aren't as good as VF2, even on arcade.
>Virtua Fighter 2 looks like garbage because the 2D background
Sure thing, meanwhile you're defending Tekken 1 on PS1.
>Soul Blade runs at 30 fps
Nuff said.
>Shitty extras, I don't remember a beat 'em up mode or a quest mode in VF2.
I also don't remember good extras like AI learning systems on the games you mentioned.
>Wrong faggot, R-Type had the same resolution.
At this point you are shitposting for shitposting's sake, aren't you? You don't even care that you're lying shamelessly.

Sonyggers, not even once. I'm glad PS2 is not part of /vr/.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:46:03 2017 No.4143929 >>4143925 >meanwhile you're defending Tekken 1 on PS1. It was a good quality port, it's just that the arcade original was trash. But the port was fine...

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:47:19 2017 No.4143935

>>4143871
>Same as VF1 but with textures. woo.
So, better?
>heavily downgraded
>heavily downgraded
Same as your PS1 ports. Worse textures, worse polycount, worse framerate in most 3D ports.
>PS1 got way better arcade ports for 3d games
Not really. Maybe this had to do with Sony not making arcade boards. Namco's system11 was based on PS1 (unlike the other way around with Saturn and model2), and still they couldn't get arcade perfect ports on PS1, shameful display.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:50:11 2017 No.4143945

>>4143929
>But the port was fine
Sure it was "fine"; but if we're gonna get anal like anti-saturn sonnyger, then might aswell be anal.
PS1 version has worse textures, worse 3D models. Also other small details like the character portraits on the select screen not having animations (something that VF on Saturn had).
It's not a perfect port.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:53:25 2017 No.4143954

>>4143918
>Because the games you mentioned aren't as good as VF2, even on arcade
That's why VF2 bombed in the west and nobody remembers it today right?

>Sure thing, meanwhile you're defending Tekken 1 on PS1.
At least Tekken 1 has more background consistency, VF2 is a port that came out after Tekken 1 and the backgrounds are garbage.

>Nuff said.
Yes and it's remembered as one of the best looking PS1 game, while VF2 only looks good for saturnfags

>you're lying shamelessly.
Then prove it you sack of shit.

Saturnfags are fucking sad

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 17:57:38 2017 No.4143963 File: 73 KB, 608x450, pg3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4143954 >VF2 >nobody remembers it today >Soul Blade >remembered as one of the best looking

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:01:23 2017 No.4143976

>>4143963
VF2 was a Japan hit, in the west the only relevance it had was being a pack-in Saturn game.

And yes Soul Blade is one of the best looking 3D fighters for 5th gen, shit with bad backgrounds and no lightning like VF2 Saturn doesn't even compare

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:04:51 2017 No.4143987

>>4143954
Wew, he just keeps going.

>Virtua Fighter 2was critically acclaimed upon release.Next Generationgave the game a perfect 5/5 stars, calling it "the ultimate arcade translation" and "the best fighting game ever."[31]The magazine cited its "accurate representation of 10 very distinct and realistic fighting styles", "remarkable AI", and "a general attention to detail that sets a new mark for quality game design."[38]Sega Saturn Magazinegave the Saturn version a 98%, citing the smooth frame rate, the realistically varied reactions to blows, the huge variety of moves, and the addition of features such as Team Battle Mode.[33]Similarly praising the variety of moves and the accuracy of the port,Game Revolutiongave the Saturn version an A and concluded that "Virtua Fighter 2for the Saturn looks better and smoother than any other polygonal fighting game for the next generation systems. This just might be the best home console fighting game ever."[26]GamePro's Scary Larry called it "the game to own if you have a Saturn", citing the authentic fighting styles and moves, the new modes, the realistic animations with strong attention to detail, and the easy to master controls. He gave it a perfect score in all four categories (graphics, sound, control, and FunFactor).[39]

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:04:53 2017 No.4143989

>>4143976
You're delusional nigger, nobody even remembers Soul Blade, that series wasn't relevant until Soul Calibur on DC.
VF2 is remember by everyone as being one of the most impressive 5th gen 3D fighting games, and the Saturn version is praised for its resolution and framerate.
Proto Calibur doesn't even compare, really.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:06:09 2017 No.4143992 >>4143945 >It's not a perfect port. Still a better port than, say, VF2 which had 3/4th of its graphics missing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:07:12 2017 No.4143995 >>4143989 >that series wasn't relevant until Soul Calibur on DC. It was one of the most well known PSX fighters, up there with Tekken and Bloody Roar.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:13:23 2017 No.4144005

>>4143989
Yet still sold worse than Tekken games despite being a fucking pack-in with Daytona/Virtua Cop, kek.

>>4143989
You are retarded, Soul Blade was pretty popular and sold a few million copies, it was important for being weapon based and for having actual detailed 3D environments instead of typical 2D backgrounds like VF2

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:15:12 2017 No.4144012 >>4144005 first reply for >>4143987

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:16:56 2017 No.4144017

>>4144005
>Yet still sold worse than Tekken games despite being a fucking pack-in with Daytona/Virtua Cop, kek.

Not that guy, but how much did Tekken 1 sell? Both VF and VF2 sold a million or so in Japan alone (and probably zero outside japan, but you get my idea).

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:19:31 2017 No.4144019 >>4144017 Tekken 2 it's better than both.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:20:07 2017 No.4144020

>>4144017
Dunno if this is reliable but

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/2342/tekken/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/2343/tekken-2/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/2344/tekken-3/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/4660/virtua-fighter/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/4661/virtua-fighter-2/

Tekken 3 alone sold close to the total amount of Saturn consoles out there

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:26:47 2017 No.4144034 >>4144005 >Yet still sold worse than Tekken We /biz/ now? Holy shit this is some desperate trolling.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:38:30 2017 No.4144061 >>4144034 That was the point of the argument though idiot, VF2 was quickly overshadowed in the west by PS1 3D fighers, despite Sega forcing it as a pack-in flagship game. Yet saturn fagbois still believe it was super popular in the west

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:40:12 2017 No.4144071 >>4144061 >the "sales=good" meme It's like I'm on /a/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:46:59 2017 No.4144089 >>4144061 Here we are discussing the quality of games. Nobody gives a hoot x sold better than y 20 years ago.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:47:01 2017 No.4144090 >>4144071 Read again retard it's about sales=relevance, VF2 wasn't relevant in the west because it was on a failed console (and Tekken was still more popular on arcades)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:49:57 2017 No.4144097 >>4144089 Both are quality games, what good is a quality game if nobody plays it though, especially since it's a competitive vs. game

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:50:04 2017 No.4144098 >>4144090 Nope, your argument was that Tekken was a better port than Virtua Fighter 2. When you lost that debate you quickly threw out a red herring about sales.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:52:54 2017 No.4144109 >>4144097 Relevance 20 years ago is no concern for the connoisseur of today. Besides, 1.7 million copies of Virtua Fighter 2 were sold in Japan. I think that counts as someone playing it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 18:56:24 2017 No.4144119

>>4144098
I only bring sales because some retard think Virtua Fighter 2 was the big shit in the west, when in reality it really wasn't in either Arcade or Saturn.

And for the last time you have to be either a complete retard or a fanboy to think those heavily downgraded ports on Saturn are better than the PS1 Namco ports. PS1 ports are like 95% accurate while Saturn ports like 60% missing big part of the background and lightning

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 19:05:36 2017 No.4144142 >>4144119 And let me remind you contemporary reviewers >>4143987 hailed Virtua Fighter 2 as the most realistic fighter and best arcade port thus far on its release. Which was after Tekken, just in case you were wondering.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 19:10:43 2017 No.4144165

>>4144142
A few reviews can't change the reality that the games weren't as big as Tekken, I can quote wikipedia too see

>Tekken 3 is widely considered one of the greatest games of all time. With more than 8.5 million copies sold worldwide, Tekken 3 is the second best selling fighting game of all time, second to only Super Smash Brothers Brawl,[3] and the fourth best-selling PlayStation game ever.
Didn't the saturn alone sell like 9 millions? lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 19:52:10 2017 No.4144278 >>4144020 >Tekken 3 alone sold close to the total amount of Saturn consoles out there Yeah, that's not much of a feat when your console userbase is twenty times bigger.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 19:55:05 2017 No.4144282 >>4144165 The Saturn was dead by the time Tekken 3 was released. You may as well give us the sales figures for Street Fighter 4. I guess you must think Justin Beiber is one of the greatest artists of all-time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 20:02:22 2017 No.4144303 >>4144282 >The Saturn was dead by the time Tekken 3 was released gee I wonder why >Justin Bieber Nice meme, but everything I said is right, a fighting game is nothing without a proper userbase, and VF2 only had userbase in japan

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 21:18:46 2017 No.4144463 >>4144303 >Justin Bieber Haha you even corrected my misspelling. He is so relevant and sells so many albums. You must be a big fan.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 21:26:31 2017 No.4144476

>>4144282
You know, if you consider the ratio of games sold per consoles sold, VF2 comes out to being owned by almost 20% of the userbase, Tekken 3 is only 7%. Given their reflective platforms, VF2 is more popular.

>>4144303
>VF2 only had userbase in japan

and?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 21:28:42 2017 No.4144484 >>4144476 When VF2 was released in Japan it sold as many copies as there were Saturns. It had an almost 100% attach rate.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 21:35:20 2017 No.4144510

>>4144463
>autism

>>4144476
>if you consider the ratio of games sold per consoles sold,
>cherrypicking THIS hard.
Oh and again, VF2 was a pack-in in US, Tekken not. Even as a pack-in game VF couldn't grab enough attention on the west, kind of sad.

>and?
And that's why nobody gives a shit about Virtual Fighter unless you are gook.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 21:40:53 2017 No.4144530

>>4143779
>VF2 scenery is laughably bad compared to the arcade
>Soul Blade, pretty much the same as the arcade, + extra modes

VF2 Saturn = 704*480i (arcade = 496*384p) and 60FPS
Soul Blade PS1 = 640*240 (arcade = 640*480) and 30FPS (half of arcade version)

>pretty much the same

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 21:46:47 2017 No.4144542 >>4144530 Soul Blade arcade is also 30 fps you uneducated retard, and yes it's much closer than a severely downgraded Model 2 with no lightsourcing and a static image for scenery

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 22:00:45 2017 No.4144569

>>4143871
>VF1 Remix
literally arcade perfect
if only because it got a STV port lol

>VF2
this one's fine -- full 480i rendering at all times, rendering at higher resolution than arcade even
backgrounds could have been a bit better, but this was probably one of the first times Sega actually used the Saturn hardware in an effective manner since they'd just finished writing a nice set of graphics libraries that actually don't suck
>like a SNES port of a Neo Geo fighter
any port of any 3D arcade game that wasn't running on shit hardware would be just that

>Sega Rally
you're fucking retarded if you say this one's heavily downgraded, and it looks loads better than Ridge Racer's port

>Virtual On
can't defend this one, shit should run at more than 20fps
and it's actually fairly inaccurate with move properties anyway.

>>4143827
>Bullshit and you know it, all these ports of 3D games have worse textures, to begin with.
honestly, most of those 3D arcade ports just run on ROM-based PS1 hardware that's slightly faster
so instead of being downgraded at home, it looked like shit in the arcade

of the lot, Tekken 3 arcade actually has 3D backgrounds that became pre-rendered scrolling 2D on PS1
also, it can be set to run in higher resolution than at home
that's probably the least accurate home port of the lot because the board it runs on is significantly more beefed up, the rest of them are effectively identical other than the PS1 being slower and having load times

>>4144542
of course it's closer, it's running on a much shittier board than the top-end Model 2

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 22:16:54 2017 No.4144597 >>4144510 >VF2 was a pack-in in US, Nobody gives a shit about US Saturn releases.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 22:20:18 2017 No.4144606

>>4144530
>VF2 Saturn = 704*480i (arcade = 496*384p) and 60FPS

Arcade has ten times the geometry and it has directional lightning. Saturn version has zero shading and zero 3d scenery other than the two fighters on the mode 7 plane.

Soul Blade PS1 had 3d scenery, coloured lightning, and transparent weapon trails.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 22:21:07 2017 No.4144607 >>4144542 >severely downgraded >being this much of an idiot it's like you never played the games

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 22:22:06 2017 No.4144612

>>4144569
>honestly, most of those 3D arcade ports just run on ROM-based PS1 hardware that's slightly faster

They run at twice the cpu speed and twice the vram. That's actually a very big deal, since the PSX had a very loose polygon budget, it was only limited in texture memory and cpu power.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 22:34:42 2017 No.4144636 >>4144597 Indeed which is what I've been trying to say to these obstinate faggots over and over, the Saturn was a japan phenomenon similar to the PCE

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 22:44:18 2017 No.4144658 >>4144607 Yes I did fag which is why I can tell how downgraded VF2 is It's funny how people praise it since it's one of the weakest Model 2 ports

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:00:09 2017 No.4144698 [DELETED]

>>4143992
Talk me when your Soul Blade runs at 60fps. For the time being, nobody remembers it, just the sequel.
>>4143995
>bloody roar
>well known
You delusional sonyggers.
>>4144019
Tekken II? Better than VF1 maybe (after all, Tekken was a copy of VF), better than VF2? In your dreams only.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:04:28 2017 No.4144706 File: 1012 KB, 2560x1440, IMAG0801.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4144698 >he doesnt know about bloody roar

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:07:38 2017 No.4144715

>>4144706
I mean, yeah I know furry roar, but it's idiotic to compare it to Tekken or VF in terms of relevance/popularity.
If I was a Saturn fanboy (like you are a Sonygger), I'd probably be shilling Dead or Alive (which is superior on Saturn, confirmed by its creator), but these franchises can't compare to Tekken and VF.
And we all know Tekken is just a "me too!" of VF.
And VF2 is the best 3D fighting retro game and it's not even close.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:12:54 2017 No.4144728

>>4144698
>Talk me when your Soul Blade runs at 60fps.
Sure, when you have games that just don't rely on flat 2D backgrounds.

>nobody remembers it
>Soul Blade was a bestseller in the UK.[22] Due to its popularity, the game was re-released as part of the PlayStation Greatest Hits, PlayStation Platinum range and PlayStation The Best series
segafags gettin real desperate uh

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:15:08 2017 No.4144734 File: 481 KB, 500x319, astra.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4144728 >t

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:15:43 2017 No.4144736 >>4144715 >And VF2 is the best 3D fighting retro game and it's not even close. It' was influential for 1994 (mostly for graphics) but now it's just unbalanced crap with retarded damage balance

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:17:15 2017 No.4144739

>>4143553
having played both, XL/2097 is not better on Saturn
original Wipeout can make an argument due to the better handling on Saturn, but 2097 can not
and either way, XL wasn't released in the US on Saturn

>>4144612
depends on which one, there were a bunch of PS1 boards
some of them are slightly better (System 11 runs at the same CPU speed), while by the time Tekken 3 comes around, it's massively better all around, and then

>>4144636
that entire quote chain is about the west
you're fucking retarded man

>>4143901
unlike the PS1, the Saturn actually does have fillrate issues, that was like 60% of the problem
the other is that you end up doing transforms in software (there's a DSP that was awfully documented and no one used it on Saturn and supposedly doesn't end up with too much more performance than doing it on CPU anyway), while the PS1 uses its (kind of awful, low precision, but super fast) GTE for that shit

>>4144658
VF2 on Saturn emphasizes being high-resolution and keeping the framerate maxed more than anything else, and it was one of the earlier Model 2 ports -- like, keep in mind that only a few months earlier, VF Remix happened.

>>4144728
>Sure, when you have games that just don't rely on flat 2D backgrounds.
you mean like Tekken 1, 2, and 3 on PS1

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:17:30 2017 No.4144741
File: 10 KB, 296x253, Dada_neo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4144728
>UK
An irrelevant fighting game that was never as popular as VF or even Tekken sold well in Sonyggerland, who would have thunk.
>muh 2d backgrounds
Enjoy your low-poly shitfest at 3fps, allah u' akbhar!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:19:24 2017 No.4144746 Why are britbongs such vicious shitposters? They're on par with australians.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:20:46 2017 No.4144749 >>4144734 This game is great. It ran at 480i mode for smooth sprite zooming.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:20:49 2017 No.4144750 >>4144746 Their genetic is all fucked up. Retarded in-bred anglo genes. Generations and generations of only the lowest form of intelligence. Not saying everyone living in those countries are like this, but a big portion, shitposters for example.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:23:48 2017 No.4144759

>>4144739
>you mean like Tekken 1, 2, and 3 on PS1
Yeah except the backgrounds aren't near as shit as the VF2 ones, and later 3D environments + 60 fps was a thing while on Saturn never ever.

>>4144741
Can't you read retard, the game got best seller re-releases everywhere you dumb cunt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:25:34 2017 No.4144760 >>4144759 >b-but they aren't as "shit"! Nice argument cockroach.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:35:11 2017 No.4144780
File: 103 KB, 540x394, lainraep.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4144759
>Due to its popularity, the game was re-released as part of the PlayStation Greatest Hits, PlayStation Platinum range and PlayStation The Best series.[citation needed]
>[citation needed]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:35:27 2017 No.4144783 >>4144760 It's true though autistic fagboi, the only Saturn backgrounds that aren't shit are DoA and Last Bronx, but by that time PS1 was getting 3D environments + 60 fps games kek

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:37:31 2017 No.4144784 >>4144780 holy shit you are desperate saturnfag http://media.gamestats.com/gg/image/object/011/011943/SoulBladeGreatestHits_F_PS1.jpg https://gamefaqs.akamaized.net/box/3/7/6/7376_front.jpg https://gamefaqs.akamaized.net/box/3/7/3/7373_front.jpg

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:37:34 2017 No.4144785 File: 60 KB, 350x240, Jumping Flash! 2 - Big Trouble in Little Muu-3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4144783 >[citation needed]

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:40:33 2017 No.4144792

>>4144784
Ah, yeah, how could I have forgot. It's true, every greenlabel PS1 game is automatically a timeless classic.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0a/ae/b0/0aaeb04ae65865f39a0f26847675e55a--greatest-hits-video-games.jpg

I remember all the afternoons I spent playing X-Men Mutant Academy and Bloody Roar. Truly 2 of the most recognized and remembered games of 5th gen.
Virtua Fighter 2? Pfft, who's heard of that one, is it related to the Virtual Boy? kek.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:43:03 2017 No.4144795 Is tekken really a copycat of virtua fighter? To me they don't play the same at all.

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:47:10 2017 No.4144806

>>4144098
Tekken is a better port, if only because Tekken runs on cheap-ass hardware in the arcade, and so there's much less of a disparity between what you can do at home and what was done in the arcade.
and that's it
you're going from a slightly faster PS1 to a consumer PS1 with Tekken (this has its advantages -- the Tekken series is explicitly made to take advantage of the PS1 architecture)
you're going from something that's pushing like 4x or 5x as many polygons with like 4x the texture resolution you could get at home to the fill-rate challenged Saturn with VF2

>>4144792
mate, Bloody Roar was actually fairly popular
it wasn't considered super amazing, but it was something a damn lot of people played

>>4144795
Kind of? IIRC, there's some staff from the original VF on the Tekken team.
Tekken actually does distinguish itself pretty well from VF in terms of how it feels though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:47:17 2017 No.4144807 >>4144792 X-Men just got a Greatest hit, Soul Blade got a Greatest Hits, Platinum and The best, it was popular everywhere. Nice try tho retard. And you must be a real faggot to diss at Bloody Roar, it was both good and well known

Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:52:36 2017 No.4144816

>>4144807
Love how you deleted your post, only to make a more aggressive one.
And speaking of faggots who diss good, popular games, how about the sonygger that can't shut his mouth about VF2's Saturn port?
>shit 2D backgrounds!
>Same with Tekken
>b-but tekken was a bit less shit!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 24 23:55:56 2017 No.4144826 >>4144807 >Love how you deleted your post, only to make a more aggressive one. I didn't, getting paranoid over there bro? >>/vr/thread/4138268#p4144816

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 25 00:01:10 2017 No.4144834 >>4144826 No, just tired it seems. I apologize.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 25 09:34:37 2017 No.4145470 >>4144750 >he said using the language of the Anglo on the invention of the Anglo

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 25 09:38:05 2017 No.4145473 >>4145470 >invention of the Anglo ?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 25 10:17:55 2017 No.4145534 >>4145473 The computer. And the world wide web.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 25 10:23:30 2017 No.4145548 >>4145534 But I'm posting from a Nokia phone, and I'm using TOR.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 25 11:28:16 2017 No.4145629 >>4145548 Tor is almost completely blocked on cuckchan. Nice try though. Also >Nokia

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 25 23:50:55 2017 No.4147015 >>4138637 This.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 25 23:59:10 2017 No.4147040 File: 5 KB, 166x249, 1478785665158s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4138637 > not Saturn and Dreamcast Brainlet detected

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 00:15:07 2017 No.4147079 File: 58 KB, 465x498, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4147040 >not Master System and Amiga

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 00:16:47 2017 No.4147085 >>4147040 Nice memes, /v/. But 2D>3D.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 02:01:49 2017 No.4147235 Is the laser better on Saturn than PS consoles? I plan to use original games only if that matter I want to buy this, never had a sega console and I love 2D games

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 02:16:13 2017 No.4147243 Stop deleting my posts you fuckin wanker mods.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 03:06:14 2017 No.4147287 What are the recommended Saturn exclusives?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 06:41:51 2017 No.4147473 >>4147235 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 19:52:49 2017 No.4148796 >>4147287 Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Bulk Slash, Psychic Killer Taromaru, Shining Force III parts 1 to 3, Dragon Force.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 19:56:33 2017 No.4148805 >>4148796 Don't forget the Dragon Force sequel. Also, Cotton Boomerang.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 20:04:06 2017 No.4148825 >>4148805 cotton boomerang is one of the best STGs around

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 20:08:36 2017 No.4148831 >>4148825 strategy games?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 20:09:38 2017 No.4148832 >>4148831 ShooTing Geemu

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 20:09:52 2017 No.4148834 >>4148831 shooting game

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 20:15:49 2017 No.4148843 >>4148834 that's stupid, you're stupid

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 20:40:25 2017 No.4148923 >>4148843 don't blame him, blame japan

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 20:52:04 2017 No.4148949 For the record, I like the Toshinden games on both Saturn and PlayStation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 20:56:06 2017 No.4148958 >>4148923 that's stupid japan's stupid

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 22:28:17 2017 No.4149138 File: 80 KB, 640x448, oasis2274750dfd2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4147287 Legend of Oasis is fantastic if you like action puzzlers. Magic Knight Rayearth has an iffy translation but is also really good.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 23:18:34 2017 No.4149283 File: 70 KB, 637x478, mkr_wd_translation_5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4149138 >Magic Knight Rayearth has an iffy translation I think you mean it has a fucking fantastic translation.

Anonymous Wed Jul 26 23:31:38 2017 No.4149296
File: 76 KB, 530x298, guardianheroes3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4149283
Yeeeah we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. But I will say this, even if you think the translation sucks it's still very worth playing.

Also not really exclusive anymore cause it's been ported, but Guardian Heroes is a blast in co-op.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 23:33:10 2017 No.4149303 >>4149283 No fucking way is this official?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 23:42:43 2017 No.4149330 File: 64 KB, 637x478, mkr_wd_translation_12.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4149303 100% official. The 90s were a hell of a decade.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 23:45:17 2017 No.4149336 File: 48 KB, 320x240, rayearth3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4149303 Have another.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 26 23:57:17 2017 No.4149364 >>4149303 Thank Victor Ireland and cocaine.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 27 01:37:40 2017 No.4149562 >>4147287 saturn. fucking. bomberman.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 27 01:40:05 2017 No.4149569 >>4149336 i just recently found all the emeralds. got everything at rainbow junction shop

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 27 23:10:55 2017 No.4151480 >>4138268 >Was the Saturn the worst hardware ever made? You haven't played the Jaguar have you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 29 00:03:07 2017 No.4153685 bump

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 29 05:16:30 2017 No.4154113 File: 23 KB, 278x299, 1411384866637.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4139443 >had games on it >worse than saturn

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 29 05:21:52 2017 No.4154119 >>4149138 I want a copy if magic knight rayearth so bad Game looks fucking fun

Anonymous Sat Jul 29 08:37:01 2017 No.4154291 [DELETED]

File: 63 KB, 660x440, ari_neeman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4139310
>>4139317
>>4140265
>>4140526
>>4139310
>>4139317
>>4140265
>>4140526
>>4141904
>>4144510
>>4144783

Hi there. DO you think you show us where those Autist touched you?

Anonymous Sat Jul 29 08:46:12 2017 No.4154298
File: 57 KB, 660x440, 1501331821283.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4139310
>>4139317
>>4140265
>>4140526
>>4139310
>>4139317
>>4140265
>>4140526
>>4141904
>>4144510
>>4144783

Hi there. Do you think you could show us where those Autist touched you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 29 11:29:24 2017 No.4154528 >>4151480 Saturn was definitely worse designed than Jaguar. At least the Jaguar was cheap, Saturn was expensive.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 30 10:07:45 2017 No.4156739 >>4154528 Jaguar was so weak they had to remove audio and wrangle with the DSP just to get acceptable performance in Doom.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 30 10:16:19 2017 No.4156757 >>4156739 Saturn's port of Doom is nothing to be proud of though. Probably runs at a worse framerate

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 30 10:18:28 2017 No.4156761 File: 673 KB, 569x802, 120565902253.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4138268 >Worst designed >Best build-quality Wew

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 30 12:07:25 2017 No.4156894 >>4156757 Other developers proved a good port could be done i.e. exhumed, but the development of saturn Doom was a complete disaster.

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/vr/ - Retro Games