Gorgeous 2D

[Anonymous No.4123460]

Name a better looking sidescroller, I dare you!

You may post screenshots to back up your claim

[Anonymous No.4123480]

>>4123460

Yeah, SotN is pretty. There were a lot of awful ternds in the 90's that SotN just avoided entirely. Many games were going for pre-rendered 3D to 2D sprites, and other gimmicks. Instead SotN opted for traditional sprite work and then just took it to the next level.

Look at Mega Man X4-6 for a more typical 2D game of that era. They're quite ugly.

[Anonymous No.4123491]

that was easy

[Anonymous No.4123498]

>>4123460

Playstation had a lot of strong 2D.

[Anonymous No.4123513]

>>4123498

[Anonymous No.4123519]

[Anonymous No.4123521]

>>4123460
It lacks asthetics.

[Anonymous No.4123527]

Saturn and PSX prove that 32bit generation pushing 3d was a mistake

[Anonymous No.4123541]

>>4123460
Saturn 2D master race wins again, baybee.

[Anonymous No.4123548]

>>4123527
Poor lonely n64 with its trash games.

[Anonymous No.4123556]

not 2d sprites but it counts as a sidescroller

sotn is indeed stunning though

[Anonymous No.4123590]

>>4123460
are you even trying

>>4123541
Princess crown has some ok sprites but the backgrounds are garbo

[Anonymous No.4123638]

>>4123460
SOTN is average looking, half of the sprites are recycled from Rondo and the screen resolution is comparable to a Master System game.

[Anonymous No.4123674]

>>4123513
What's the name of that monkey game in the far bottom right? I played it at a friends house as a kid and I never found out the name after all these years.

[Anonymous No.4123692]

>>4123541
Can't see shit on that highly compressed video. Also sucks how the ingame system only supports 1on1 fights

[Anonymous No.4123694]

The graphics were gorgeous & this was done in 1998. I always wonder what it would have looked like on SNES or Sega Genesis. But NEC had it as an exclusive, so I guess it wouldn't have made it on the Sega Genesis and I know for sure Nintendo would be anal about it and not have it on their system period because of how controversial it was at the time.

[Anonymous No.4123697]

>>4123638
That game has some good art but it's not that impressive, barely any parallax or animation in the background

[Anonymous No.4123701]

>>4123694
*1988, not 1998.

[Anonymous No.4123703]

>>4123460
Adventure of Lomax is pretty damn good.

[Anonymous No.4123707]

[Anonymous No.4123714]

[Anonymous No.4123718]

[Anonymous No.4123725]

>>4123707
>>4123714
>>4123718
>sidescroller

[Anonymous No.4123729]

>>4123707
>>4123714
>>4123718
What game?

[Anonymous No.4123735]

>>4123725
No, the OP says "gorgeous 2d".
>>4123729
Breath of Fire IV, great game.

[Anonymous No.4123746]

I can't, SOTN isn't my fav Castlevania or sidescroller but it looks completely beautiful.
It has a lot of variet but I wish it had some more outdoor zones (I guess there's the garden on the Saturn ver.), or something like the Treasury, but overall SOTN is a visual delight. Can't think of a better looking 2D game. More impressive I can think of some, but the art direction makes me prefer SOTN.

[Anonymous No.4123750]

>>4123735
Nigger, that game is 90% 3D polygons.

[Anonymous No.4123751]

>>4123460

[Anonymous No.4123759]

>>4123519
NO CONTEST

[Anonymous No.4123770]

>>4123750
Dude, it's 2d, no need to be pissy. OP didn't specify any kind suggestions, they just asked for good 2d.

[Anonymous No.4123871]

>>4123460
screens dont make it justice

sotn looks even better in motion and on a crt

[Anonymous No.4123974]

>>4123491
>Gorgeous 2D
>posts a 3d pre-rendered game

[Anonymous No.4123984]

Kirby's Dreamland 3 had some great graphics.

[Anonymous No.4124002]

ActRaiser 2. Seriously, the art direction in this game is simply beautiful.

[Anonymous No.4124014]

>>4123491
Ew gross, bad aesthetics.

Also that's 3D m8

[Anonymous No.4124018]

>>4124002
>sepia shit tones
>colour banding
>lame sprites
>no parallax
I'll give that a 1/10.

Now here's actual art.

[Anonymous No.4124020]

>>4124014
I know you're baiting, but DKC is 100% 2D, the 3D is prerendered, but technically the game is all 2D.
On the other hand, SOTN actually uses 3D polygons, for example the clock tower when you're going upstairs to dracula's lair, or the chapel room with the cool 3D effect on the background as you move. A lot of assets on SOTN are actually polygons, just cleverly flattened, textured and disguised as 2D sprites.
As for aesthetics, I like both DKC and SOTN a lot. They aim for different kind of things, but both work amazingly.

[Anonymous No.4124026]

>>4124018
>Weak and lifeless color palette
>Fugly Dithering
>One color "sky"
>Actual art

[Anonymous No.4124028]

>>4124020
DKC was made by making cgi assets and down scaling them. I think they look pretty good overall but I don't think they qualify as "2d" really.

[Anonymous No.4124034]

>>4124026
Ignore him, that guy posted a kind of shitty pic but actraiser 2 looks pretty damn good. For 1993 which was only about halfway through the console's lifecycle quintet did a really good job.

[Anonymous No.4124050]

>>4123770
you know, X4, X5, and X6 are kind of uglyish, but MM8 is pretty damn good looking
not the best, but it's pretty damn nice

[Anonymous No.4124190]

[NESfag No.4124195]

>MMX4
>Ugly

You guys are tasteless.

[Anonymous No.4124198]

>Gorgeous 2D
>Posts a game that uses 3D for backgrounds and other effects

[Anonymous No.4124203]

[Anonymous No.4124210]

[Anonymous No.4124212]

>>4123460
I can't. SoTN is the most beautiful 2D game of all time.

[Anonymous No.4124219]

[Anonymous No.4124227]

[Anonymous No.4124229]

[Anonymous No.4124235]

>>4123480
>X4
>ugly

[Anonymous No.4124237]

[Anonymous No.4124238]

[Anonymous No.4124246]

[Anonymous No.4124247]

>>4123460
>Name a better looking sidescroller, I dare you!

Metal Slug 3 and it's not even close.

[Anonymous No.4124263]

>>4124229
Thank you so much for taking pictures of one the coolest 2D games ever.

[Anonymous No.4124270]

[Anonymous No.4124274]

[Anonymous No.4124301]

>>4124274
Kolibrism

[Anonymous No.4124307]

>>4124198
This 2bh. 3 out of 4 screenshots in >>4123460 use 3D backgrounds.

It generally makes it work though.

[Anonymous No.4124339]

>>4123703
How does it play?

[Anonymous No.4124412]

Astal

[Anonymous No.4124424]

>>4123770

You can tell 8 was directed by an artist. Hayato Kaji was an artist, turned director, and it really shows. 8 is the only game he's ever directed. 8 LOOKS nice visually, but it's a bland boring sloppy game.

[Anonymous No.4124486]

>>4124424
Somebody jumped when he should've slided one time too many I see

[Anonymous No.4124554]

>>4124339
Very simple but a solid game. It's a spinoff of the lemmings.

[Anonymous No.4124574]

Ghouls 'N Ghosts. This art is amazing for 1988 game a blow up our heads back in the day. I couldn't believe the realism of the storm sequence of the first level.
By the way, even Yuji Naka loved the game and the sloped terrain influenced the levels of Sonic the Hedgehog.

[Anonymous No.4124580]

>>4123491
That game looks like dog shit.

[Anonymous No.4124583]

>>4124580
Agree, I prefer hand drawn 2D any day.

[Anonymous No.4124645]

>>4124018
Not even the best on the Mega Drive.

[Anonymous No.4124681]

>>4123703
>>4124645
These related?

[Anonymous No.4124695]

>>4124645
>>4124681
same lead developer

[Anonymous No.4125346]

>>4123460
>3d backgrounds

[Anonymous No.4125970]

>>4124412
Astal is beautiful and it has transparencies

[Anonymous No.4125975]

>>4125970

[Anonymous No.4125984]

>>4125975
That player reflection looks all glitchy, you can walk out of a platform and can you still see your reflection floating in the air.

[Anonymous No.4126835]

threads like this make me realize how many games im missing out on. i wish i had the time to play them all

[Anonymous No.4128967]

>>4126835
even if you had the time you can't play em all.

[Anonymous No.4129001]

>>4124190
VNfag plz go

[Anonymous No.4129031]

>>4123460
I've played this game so many fucking times, and know it down to every detail to such a degree that I just can't appreciate how beautiful it is anymore. I wanna play it for the first time again.

[asscrabs No.4129291]

sup?

[asscrabs No.4129296]

oh boy, side scrollers only?

[Anonymous No.4129319]

So I just replayed a Link to the Past and oh boy it plays a lot worse than I remember. Meanwhile Super Metroid still holds up perfectly.

Why did the sidescroller hold up so much better than the top down? And how does one make top downs good again?

[Anonymous No.4129320]

>>4129319
sorry wrong thread

[Anonymous No.4129449]

>>4124028
how? you can't rotate the image and see it from all sides it is two dimensional

[Anonymous No.4129473]

>>4129449
Akshully it's 2.5D I'm just kidding I'm a faggot.

[Anonymous No.4129665]

[Anonymous No.4129670]

[Anonymous No.4129737]

>>4123460
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH9Ipw_tGCY

[Anonymous No.4129752]

>>4129737
This has the Flink and Lomax artist, doesn't it? That guy draws some of the loveliest scenery

[Anonymous No.4129758]

>>4129752
Henk Nieborg, yep that's him.

[Anonymous No.4130578]

>>4124229

This game is too adorable and unfairly overlooked

[Anonymous No.4130607]

>>4130578
Being on the 32X really killed it more then anything. It's basically the sole reason to care about the damn thing.

[Anonymous No.4130609]

>>4123707
>>4123714
>>4123718
seeing this made me try the game and I came back just to say thank you.

[Anonymous No.4130631]

>>4124246
What game anon?

[Anonymous No.4130659]

>>4130609
Damn, I was the one who posted it and makes me happy to hear anon. I hope you enjoy Breath of Fire IV as much as I did.
>>4130631
In the filename anon, In the Hunt. Made by SNK, pretty neat game.

[Anonymous No.4130813]

>>4124229
Is Super Tempo actually good?
Tempo on 32x sucks.

>>4125970
The Saturn has built-in transparency support, it's just awful and they didn't really think it through.
It can do:
>sprite-sprite transparency
...which is slow (not as bad as documented -- it's not actually 6 times slower, but it is definitely slower and VDP1 is already slow as shit) and screws up if you use 4 point distortion, also it doesn't actually go through to the background, it only affects other sprites, unless you combine it with sprite-background transparency or constantly switch priority so you get real transparency against sprites and flicker transparency against backgrounds (Cotton 2/Boomerang does that, IIRC)
a few games use it, like Sonic R's shield powerup, but it's rare
>50% dither pattern
...which is fast and done in hardware, but it's not real transparency and also clobbers other 50% dithered things behind it (which looks less dumb than the clobbering with sprite-background transparency)
most games use this heavily
>sprite-background transparency
...which is fast... but if you have another sprite behind the transparent one, it disappears completely, there's basically a per-pixel transparency mask on the sprite layer
a fair few games use this
>background transparency
which is basically the same as the above, but done with a background layer instead of the sprite layer

[Anonymous No.4130871]

>>4130813
>Is Super Tempo actually good?
I like it about as much as the first game. Both have multiple endings but unfortunately my ass can't read Japanese so I missed a lot of the text in the sequel

[Anonymous No.4131052]

>>4130607
Tempo =/= Super Tempo

[Anonymous No.4131053]

>>4124412
I was just about to mention Astal too.

[Anonymous No.4131057]

>>4123735
Man the spritework of BoF4 is pretty nice but its 3D is fucking horrendous.

[Anonymous No.4131059]

>>4130813
>The Saturn has built-in transparency support
Well yes and no. The technique was only later developed by STI I believe and added to the official devkit or documents or whatever

[Anonymous No.4131063]

>>4131057
That gif looks pretty standard for ps1, not sure what you mean. The bosses being 3d was a pretty bad choice but they're more jarring then actually bad.

[Anonymous No.4132930]

>>4124219
literally the prettiest 4th gen parallax, I'm even a snesfag

[Anonymous No.4132996]

>>4128967
not him but, including emulation is any of the games in the thread usually inacessible? I actually have kind of a boner for lost/rare/unreleased games.

[Anonymous No.4133002]

>>4131057
yeah for psx even the 3d is pretty clean and doesn't feel too out of place next to the fantastic spritework

[Anonymous No.4133013]

>>4124246
seriously this has to be the most action packed pure 2d game I've ever seen/played. everything explodes, all the sprites have so much detail. it never slowdowns. it's challenging but doable. even the backgrounds explodes.
amazing game, a really beautiful amazing game. if you like Metal Slug or Gradius definitely check this one out.

my top 3 most beautiful 2d games has to be:
In The Hunt (psx)
Super Mario World (snes)
Waku Waku 7 / Breath of Fire IV (Neo Geo / psx) because of their color palettes and character designs. (I'm a sucker for pastel colors and purple in particular n-no homo)

[Anonymous No.4133147]

>>4124020
>A lot of assets on SOTN are actually polygons, just cleverly flattened, textured and disguised as 2D sprites.
Isn't this the case for a lot of 2d PS1 games for technical reasons? I think things like that should be considered 2d for the purpose of this discussion.

[Anonymous No.4133161]

>>4133013
>it never slowdowns.
What? it does and a lot in the arcade at least, still a great game.

[Anonymous No.4133164]

>>4133161
I've only emulated it on psx through retroarch using the beetle psx core and on my psp and had no slowdowns.

[Anonymous No.4133168]

>>4133013
Maybe I ask why mario world? I think it looks fine but I find it a weird choice comapred to those other ones. I think more then anything the fact that there are only six level archtypes (regular/underwater/forest/boo house/cave/castle) annoyed me as in mario 3 each world was different and each level felt distinct appearance wise.

[Anonymous No.4133220]

>>4130871
You're not missing out. Most of the text is just Major Minor explaining what to do in a level, which is obvious through non-textual cues. Good if you want to practice reading ひらがな, I suppose.

[Anonymous No.4133240]

>>4130659
>In the filename anon, In the Hunt. Made by SNK, pretty neat game.

Nope. In the Hunt is an IREM game. The development team did join SNK a few years later and made Metal Slug.

[Anonymous No.4133341]

>>4133168
Well I just really like the colors and the look of it. The character designs are great and I agree that the game itself doesn't fully show the aesthetical potential of the game, but some of the smarter romhack levels I've seen truly make the game look even more amazing.

[Anonymous No.4134069]

>>4123770
>no need to be pissy.
Sorry, it's because GIRLS USED TO DISS ME, NOW THEY WRITE LETTERS CUZ THEY MISS ME.

[Anonymous No.4134236]

>>4131059
what in god's name are you going on about
nothing you said is remotely correct

mind you, it's still a fucking mess (read the VDP2 manual on color calculation, it's such a dense, obtuse mess to read despite describing basic things like additive blending and the lot with hideous grammar and repetitive sentence structure)

like, enjoy this snippet:
>When calculating color between the top and second images, calculation is controlled by the color calculation enable bit of the top image. When using the extended color calculation function, control between the second and third images is done by the color calculation enable bit of the second image, and control between the third and fourth images is done by the color calculation enable bit of the third image
Page 242 (PDF page 260) of the VDP2 User's Manual version 1.1, Doc. #ST-058-R2-060194

tl;dr: When blending two layers, the blend enable bit on the image above controls the result. This holds true when blending multiple layers via extended blending -- the image above controls blending against the layer below.
that's it
it took ages for me to even find this section in this trashpile documentation, because I was looking for words like translucency and transparency and blending and additive and the lot, and none of that shit came up

like, imagine reading pages of that shit and then just saying fuck it, I've got a headache
dunno how it reads in the original nip, but considering this seems to be a fairly literal translation, I bet that actual Japanese programmers were like "lol, nah, fuck this trash"

[Anonymous No.4134303]

>>4134236
Just goes to show I have no idea what I'm talking about
Sorry to have you type all that out but it was interesting to read

If it helps I think where I got my idea from the transparencies developed by STI was specifically the transparent effect used in Burning Rangers but then again I might be just be talking out of turn. If I recall correctly the transparency is akin to the "Add" blending mode and it was actually running on different FPS than the base game.
Not sure where I picked this information up initially but there are some scarce non verified informations on this on the internets if you google it

[Anonymous No.4134407]

>>4134236
>nothing you said is remotely correct

He is right in that if you want to do actual 3d transparency, in a 3d game, as you could do on damn near any other hardware, you could not do it on the Saturn. And STI later came up with techniques to get around that, which involved multipass polygon rendering and rasterization with the VDP2. Even that was limited too, because polygon to polygon transparency was insanely slow, so if you tried overlapping transparencies you ended up with no speed.

Scorcher does polygon to polygon transparency, most notably the red lights on the two last levels, and the frame rate temporarily drops to 2fps if you got those lights to cover the full screen.

Burning Rangers does all those workarounds with the VDP2, but it looks like ass for a whole lot of other reasons, partially because it has worse polygon shaking than PSX games, and partially because the textures have less colour depth than a Genesis (except for the few parts which they draw as untextured gouraud shaded parts).

>like, enjoy this snippet:

It reads like that because Japanese has technical terms that do not directly translate. So things come out incredibly raw. Blending is basically calculating the colour value of two pixels/layers, so that snippet is correct.

But if this gives you a headache then I don't know how you made it past the initial glossary, where it calls a pixel a "dot". I think you just ctrl+f'd the document, instead of, you know, reading it properly from the beginning. Which explains why you think it reads like a trashpile, because you are bypassing the context and look only for terms you are familiar with.

And remember that it is dated 1994, when you still had to explain it to developers that "blending" involves halving 2 pixels rgb values and adding them together. There's a reason why it is overly technical. It's meant for developers, not for internet warriors trying to correct Wikipedia.

[Anonymous No.4134432]

>>4134303
It was Chris Coffin who described that method of rasterizing polygons with the VDP2, on the Sonic Retro forums. It runs at a different frame rate because it is essentially multi pass rendering, and the passes are updated independently, if there is no time to maintain the frame rate.

Same person also did a bump mapping demo on the Saturn, using a glitch in gouraud shading to ramp up palette values of the texture.

>>4133147
It depends on your definition of a sprite. PSX/Saturn/N64 and anything later did not have hardware sprites. But they had a hardware accelerated polygon rasterizer that could be used to draw 2d objects that looked like sprites.

SOTN still primarily uses a shit load of 2d assets, and all gameplay is 2d, there are only a few scenes that use 3d backgrounds to make it pretty. If that disqualifies it from being considered 2d, then Yoshi's Island doesn't count either because it has stuff like the walls in the background smashing down, or planks that rotate around the z axis, or the entire damn final boss.
Kinda thinking of it, if having a z depth for gameplay matters, then you could also disqualify every Scaler game (Outrun, Space Harrier, etc), as well as every isometric game (they have 3 axes). But technically Doom would still be allowed since it is a 2d game on a ray caster engine.

And if lack of hardware sprites disqualifies a game too, then nothing from 6th gen onwards counts, nor does any PC game ever (Amiga is okay though!).

So yeah, better dial it back with all of them technical nitpickings.

[Anonymous No.4135453]

>>4134432
Since you're schooling us already, mind if I, a layman, ask you some stuff?
First of all, from what I gathered polygon rasterization seems to be a method to project which pixels a vector would need to be represented on a pixel-grid. A ray caster engine would be like taking a picture of a 3d ambient and showing it to you. What would be the difference, from a technical nitpicking point-of-view, between both? It seems like rasterization wouldn't be different from using a digital camera to take a pic of a 3d object, and that seems like what i took to be raycasting.
IIRC Yoshi's Island mostly makes use of mode7 for the stuff you mentioned right? If so, how would mode7 differ from raycasting? Does the snes actually show you polygons or are they just flat things that change textures quickly to look 3d?
What would be a scaler game? A quick search seems to only point me to a seemingly shitty ps2 pltformer.
Could you also explain your remarks about the amiga? Why is it different?
Thanks, and here's a pic of Strider 2, Which I'm not sure I should call 2.5D or not anymore.

[Anonymous No.4137483]

>>4123491
You think you're clever, don'tya?