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/vr/ - Retro Games

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4108210 No.4108210 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

This game sucks.

>> No.4108214

Now you've really crossed the line
Your hate for me is divine

>> No.4108221

Nice rhyme. Bet /lit would love you.

>> No.4108304

Simply not true.

>> No.4108307

How is it not true in any way?

>> No.4108309


I don't see what the big deal is either, I even played it growing up. Blaster Master was superior in every way.

>> No.4108312

THANK YOU! Blaster master, Contra, Castlevania, Mario trilogy, Kirby!

>> No.4108316

great controls
great music
short and easy to explore

>> No.4108319

the room placement and degree of repetition is distracting. i well understand memory was limited, but it seems like they could have made better use of the rooms they did have.

drawing a map is a lot of fun. having the game draw the map for you is too boring.

graphics are pretty crap

great glitches, with the hidden worlds and all

synergistic with Super

interesting powerups, although lame you can't combine beams, nor does the game throw tool-specific challenges at you besides bombs and morph ball (which will always be a sweet power up)

the game is fun, and plays personally because you have to know it well from memory, but it could have used a few more months of development.

>> No.4108338

Zero Mission
It's like Metroid: The Good Version

>> No.4108341

It's actually a really great game.

The repetition of rooms is intentional. The game can be beaten without maps by moving through the rooms systematically.

>> No.4108346

this, its a remake that was needed.

>> No.4108349

Metroid II should have been remade at the same time. Now we're stuck with 3d shit

>> No.4108362

>Repetition of rooms
It all looks the same, man, and that's not a good thing.

>> No.4108581

>he never got past the second Zebetite

your mother sucks

my dick.

>> No.4108617

I got that pic off of google, it's not a picture of my gameplay.

>> No.4108623 [DELETED] 

O I was just gonna ask for your retarded opinion!!!!

Thank u now I don't have to make a new thread¡!!!!!!!!!!

>> No.4108635

So for how long did you play it? 5 or 10 minutes, before you got frustrated and put down the control- nah, before you closed the emulator and opened a new tab to bitch about it here?

>> No.4108636

Why do people always complain about repetition in Metroid 1, but never for Zelda or SMB1?

>> No.4108664

1 > 2 > Super > Pinball > rest of the series sucks

>> No.4108675
File: 456 KB, 1271x693, IMG_0483.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Stop that

>> No.4108693

No, I made threads bashing zelda, don't you worry.

>> No.4108695

Goes like this:
Super > zero mission > fusion > primes ( console) > other m > prime hunters > 1 > 2 > pinball

>> No.4108698

confirmed for shit taste. why don't you go to /v/, the games there may be more to your liking.

>> No.4108759

Stop shit posting. >>>reddit
Super > ZM or Fusion > ZM or Fusion, whatever is left > Metroid 2 > Metroid

3d Metroid is NOT RETRO but should always be considered independently from 2d. Regardless of anything, Other M belongs at the bottom and Prime Pinball is the finest entry in the pinball series.

>> No.4108815
File: 70 KB, 1200x740, skinner pathetic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>placing M1 at the bottom
absolute pleb

>> No.4108819

They're all great games, though, anon. Metroid 1 established the series but it's in no way the best one.

>> No.4108841

Sucks ball that they gave such an important franchise and a long waited remake to a shitty studio.

Super metroid>Am2r>Metroid:Zm>Fusion>3d games

>> No.4108842
File: 62 KB, 256x192, samus 3.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Yeah, I know. It's """Opinions""", and that's OK. Still it irks me to see people place M1 even lower than M2. Sure, M2 added a handful of good new features, but that doesn't make up for the overwhelming amount of aspects which suffered very objectively in the transition (ear-bleeding music, linear map, repetitious gameplay, tiny viewable distance, etc). Sure, a lot of these were simply due to hardware limitations, but overall M1 is a much more satisfying experience. I suspect a lot of people had their introduction to the series with SM and never bothered to play M1 for longer than 10 minutes ("this game sucks!"), let alone finish it.

>> No.4108869

Metroid 1 will always be my favourite. Best atmosphere by far, while SM etc. feel like videogames M1 will always be an experience.

>> No.4108913
File: 28 KB, 256x192, samus 2.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I feel you, bro. It's surprisingly atmospheric and cinematic for an 8-bit game, very much ahead of its time in that aspect.

>> No.4108921

Maybe it's because I'm old, but I prefer NEStroid to ZM. To each their own.

>> No.4109141

Everyone who is voicing their opinion in this thread started playing Metroid by 6th gen. That is why their opinion is bad.

>> No.4109151

George Lucas pls

>> No.4109187
File: 2.72 MB, 2000x8200, tansakus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Meh tier.

>> No.4109235

Why does every fucking thread have to be like this? It's all about baiting people and trolling and making others angry

I'm fucking tired off this dumb shit spreading all over this site, there are barely any good threads anymore and it's all politics and bait and fucking memes. Fuck you

>> No.4109242

You have to be max casual to say this game is difficult. It's only major flaw is towards the end when you get killed in Tourian because you have to refill your energy tanks slowly

>> No.4109273

You got that backwards, refilling is difficult pre-Tourian. Metroids drop a shitload of energy.

>> No.4109305

This is a great list, however, seeing as "meh tier" is the worst, it's the same as saying, "it sucks".

>> No.4109308

>fusion below zero mission and am2r
le fuck?

>> No.4109313

>not castleroid

>> No.4109314

>Dawn of Sorrow that high
>Portrait not in Meh

>> No.4109315

Because the castlevania games take up their space. I never played am2r, but fusion is slightly worse than zero mission for me, so to me it makes sense.

>> No.4109318

Dude fuck off, dawn of sorrow is awesome

>> No.4109356

I didn't say anything about difficulty, only that it sucks. Where did you get difficulty from?

>> No.4109362

>I have shit taste
Say no more.

>> No.4109364

>I'm a fucking retard
I'm not gonna fucking listen to you.

>> No.4109369


I honestly enjoy this game's atmosphere more than Super Metroid. This game feels way more lonely, and alien. Super Metroid feels more "made" for the player, you can feel that invisible hand of the developers nudging you along.

>> No.4109376

Fuck off back to France.

>> No.4109382

great way to advertise your shit taste

>> No.4109385

You have no choice, summerfag.

>> No.4109387

The only good part of this franchise was Zero Suit Samus, because at least you could jack off to her.

>> No.4109538
File: 61 KB, 611x175, Samus sipping.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Having Metroid, the most influential game in this genre that low, really? All these games borrow from M1, one way or another.

>> No.4109603

>I'm fucking tired off this dumb shit spreading all over this site, there are barely any good threads anymore and it's all politics and bait and fucking memes. Fuck you
You forgot the endless discussion of game ranking lists. So deep.

it quickly degenerates into this:

>> No.4109776

Because it's a shit fucking game. Play it only to understand the franchise it started, but nothing more, because there is no enjoyment to be had from playing it.

>> No.4109806

Most difficult game in the series. Enemies respawn once their respawn point is out of range. This makes the hit-and-run strategy impossible. It's especially dangerous when you're struck by an enemy in a room full of enemies because you'll be pushed away, far enough to trigger the enemy respawning. Traveling through doors is also dangerous. You'll be slowed down during the transition while being completely vulnerable to enemies and projectiles.

>> No.4109854
File: 3 KB, 256x224, metroid + saving.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I love this game. I enjoy it more than Super Metroid because of the harder difficulty, the feeling of loneliness and that you have to draw your own map. The exploration is much stronger when you have to draw your own map with your own symbols.

The only thing I don't like with Metroid 1 is the horrendous long code and that you start with almost no energy everytime you play. To farm life for the first ten minutes everytime you want to continue playing sucks.

>> No.4109859

Zero Mission is for pussies and is a reimagining at best.

>> No.4109862

>The only thing I don't like with Metroid 1 is the horrendous long code
They weren't as confident with increasing the manufacturing cost of the cartridge by using battery backup like they were with Zelda.

>and that you start with almost no energy everytime you play. To farm life for the first ten minutes everytime you want to continue playing sucks.
Then don't die. You can easily increase your health to max by finding an energy tank.

>> No.4109863

>Enemies respawn once their respawn point is out of range
That is a thing with most NES games, really.

>> No.4109875

>Then don't die. You can easily increase your health to max by finding an energy tank.

Maybe some people don't want or have time to play the game in one sitting. I would like the possibility to shut down the game and come back to it another day. It's a long game considering it being a NES title.

>> No.4109878

>Harder difficulty
It's just a tedious chore of a game.
>the feeling of loneliness
Super has better atmosphere by MILES
>Have to draw your own map
bet you draw your own maps when you go camping in the woods, you nerd

>> No.4109887
File: 128 KB, 500x1200, 1361040204299.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>bet you draw your own maps when you go camping in the woods, you nerd

I don't think nerds usually go camping in the woods. And you're on the wrong website if you don't like nerds.

>> No.4109897

Everything you said indicates one thing: that the game is badly designed, and you're praising it for that? Don't talk to me again.

>> No.4109906


>> No.4109916

It's all atmosphere, that's great

>> No.4109927

>Harmony of Dissonance
>Good tier
nice troll chart you got there, anon

>> No.4110152

Adventure Island 3, Tiny Toons Adventures, Megaman 1-3, The Adventures of Bayou Billy, Ninja Gaidan...

>> No.4110170

battletoads, super C, ghosts and goblins, punch out

>> No.4110272

>le Harmony is bad meme XD

>> No.4110353

Ur gay

>> No.4110357

It's objectively the worse of the GBA games with the most reused sprites from SotN.

>> No.4110362

La mulana is fucking trash

>> No.4110380

>there are barely any good threads anymore and it's all politics and bait and fucking memes.
This is literally how 4chan has always been, except "baiting" was known as "trolling" instead.

>> No.4110383

That's not what makes it (relatively) bad, it's the fucking looooooong corridors and terrible placement of teleporters, making the castle a pain to navigate. Also the bright as fuck colors.

It's still one of the must plays on the GBA though.

>> No.4110385

I can't play any Shantae game without having a good wank or two first

>> No.4110391

>La Mulana is probably fucking trash because /vr/ told me that all indie games are fucking trash, especially the ones that are made in retro styles.

>> No.4110404

After Half Assed Genie, I feel more like I'm the wanker myself for backing that shit game.

>> No.4110409

Fusion is barely an exploration game, you're constantly being told where to go by the plot with little to no freedom and the abilities you get are just paperwork, it's like a JRPG that plays like a metroidvania.

>> No.4110463

you're fucking trash

>> No.4110678

Super > AM2R > ZM > 1 > Fusion > 2

>> No.4110694

You CAN sequence break.

>> No.4110696

name an example. the one with the shinespark in AQA doesn't count because it was baked into the game on purpose

>> No.4110716

I'm not sure about this but I figured the "secret message" was just a failsafe mechanism in case a possible sequence break had gotten past the devs, which would mean the AQA one was the only sequence break that did get past them. Does the same message trigger if you hack the game and go into any other wrong nav room?

>> No.4110735

it's clear both from the nature of the dialog and how quickly you get put back on to the intended path that makes it obvious it was designed. i can't prove it with code, but i'm sure it's no chris houlihan room. when it comes down to it, it's actually not a sequence break at all, just an alternate path. The progression in Fusion is painfully rigid by determined effort.

>> No.4110749

Metroid was designed for advanced players, it gives you no quarter.

>> No.4111342

No, Ninja Gaiden was designed for advanced players, Metroid was designed shittily.

>> No.4111432

>SotN is a better metroid-like game than AoS
Whoever made this picture is a fucking retard.

>> No.4111480

No, Metroid was designed for advanced players. It was intended to be Nintendo's "hard" game series. The point of the game is to explore and survive. Mistakes are punished. Git gud.

>> No.4111490
File: 142 KB, 816x587, giggle.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>he thinks Metroid is challenging

>> No.4111493

Metroid was not intended to be nintendo's "hard game series. That was castlevania. I don't know WHERE you got that notion from.

>> No.4111495

>drawing a map is a lot of fun

Yeah, nothing is more relaxing after a long day of school than going to the store to buy graph paper, sorting my colored pencils, and then spending more time using them than I am actually playing the game.

>> No.4111497

Castlevania isn't a Nintendo game. I'm assuming that anon meant first party series. Compared to Mario and Zelda, Metroid was pretty hardcore.

>> No.4111507

Zelda II and SMB2J is harder than any Metroid game.

>> No.4111529

Yeah you're right, my mistake.

>> No.4111534


>> No.4111653

>drawing a map is a lot of fun. having the game draw the map for you is too boring.
I completely agree with you. I took the time to map out 95% of the game (I ignored a couple paths after I found the two main bosses and didn't map out Tourian since it's a straight line) and I've been using that map to speed through the game in subsequent playthroughs. I haven't managed to get the special "beat the game in less than 1 hour" yet but I'll see those 8-bit titties one day.

>> No.4111810

>Goes through room, maps it out
>Repeat through the whole game
Very fun, just how I like to play my video games -- with paper and fucking pencil, making notes and shit. Not a huge fan of that concept, to be honest.

>> No.4111817
File: 82 KB, 331x360, 1492846561425.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Very fun, just how I like to play my video games -- with paper and fucking pencil, making notes and shit.

>> No.4111825

Newsflash, idiot: I was being fucking sarcastic

>> No.4111904


>> No.4111906


>> No.4111916

3D <= metroid smiling

>> No.4111924


Pharoah Rebirth is a really good, and under rated game. Got the plus version during the last sale.

>> No.4111949

It just feels like homework.

>> No.4111962

cool. how many games have you played where you actually mapped it out by hand, anyway?

>> No.4112054

Probably none, because very few people do. At that point, just play Contra or something.

>> No.4112056

One, Fire and Ice, I had to map out a few levels to solve them. It wasn't fun.

>> No.4112063

fair enough.

btw, is Fire and Ice good? it always looked rad, but I've never gotten around to trying it out.

>> No.4112065

Yeah, it's great. Highly recommend.

>> No.4112159

no you fucking suck

>> No.4112731

2 is significantly better in pretty much every way except the small screen

not that anyone here would admit it

>> No.4112882

>kill 10 metroids to open the door
Fuck off retard.

>> No.4112903
File: 44 KB, 768x720, lol tiny screen.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Enjoy your "soundtrack", lack of atmosphere, linear level design, and repetitious gameplay.

Why do people even argue for this except for being contrarian?

>> No.4112963
File: 3.10 MB, 900x900, 1454652619288.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Metroid 1 is outdated garbage. Zero Mission is Metroid 1 but better, and it's higher on the list. Super Metroid is the best game in the series, and it's in the highest tier. What the hell are you bitching about?

>> No.4112992

In 30 Years, all those games will be "outdated garbage", so why even bother making a list.

>> No.4112994

The sound design in 2 was awesome. The game is dripping with atmosphere. The feeling of isolation is palpable.

For most of the game, exploration is accompanied by alien sounds and weird noises, while music is associated with Chozo temples, artifacts, and progressing through the lava tunnel. The last bit in the heart of the nest flips it around, playing music that ramps up the tension as you encounter the destroyed statue and your Metroid counter suddenly jumps up. Finding the Metroid larva is one of the best moments in gaming history.

2 added staples of the series like Space Jump, Spider Ball, Spazer, Plasma Beam, the gunship, and a bulky Varia suit that wasn’t just a recolor.

It's not contrarian to say that 2 was an improvement over 1 in several ways, and that it was avant-garde and tried new things.

>> No.4113015

Those achievements all pale in comparison to the groundbreaking work M1 did. For me, they don't make up for the shortcomings.

Also, M1 soundtrack is very objectively better. The Tunnel is great, I give you that, but apart from that, both the melodic and the atmospheric pieces are more enjoyable in M1. Random bleeps and chirps that make your ears bleed are NOT "avant-garde" - if anything, that label applies to M1, compared to its contemporaries.

>> No.4113785

Because they're not outdated right now, so we make lists right now.

>> No.4113791

I don't get you guys. When I was a kid the last thing I wanted to do when I came back home to play my videogames was to get a fucking notebook and a pencil. I hated games that recquired me to write notes or draw.

>> No.4113801

Exactly. I'm with you on this one.

>> No.4113834

>likes exploration games
>just not _too_ much exploration

>> No.4113846

With a little experience, you won't need a map. After one or two playthroughs you'll know your way around the map. Unless you have terrible spatial memory, that is. In that case, play mega man and quit bitching about Metroid 1.

>> No.4113905

I love this game

the enemy designs and otherworldly rooms have a great feel to them, and the repetition helps you get lost and have to remember where you are or draw a map, which takes a good amount of effort from the player. The bosses arent great, but for what they were, I thought they were fun. Multiple playstyles available, allowing you to ignore some items, go for 100%, or a race as fast as possible to get to MB. It was neat to have items sprinkled in out of place places so you could be rewarded for exploring every inch of the map, even though it was kind of frustrating having to find some. the final boss fight and escape sequence was 10/10 in my opinion

that said, having to farm after every death sucks ass, especially in one part that I cant remember its location but do remember the horrible grind back up. The block ladders werent very fun either, and it needed a save option without having to die.


>> No.4113921

It literally does NOTHING for exploration. Having a map in the game empty at the beginning and filling up as you find shit is the perfect solution. If you want to make your own maps then good for you, but I'm gonna be playing my games, instead.

>> No.4113926

Or I can just not play that game where I have to make a map and just play contra, castlevania, mario, super metroid, etc. Having to make a map adds nothing but tedium. It's not even what the game's designers wanted. These exploration games like zelda and metroid ended up having maps on the super nintendo.

>> No.4114209

I want this game to get an update like AM2R

Zero mission is great and all, but the NES original could use some updated visuals and map/game over tweaks

>> No.4114221 [SPOILER] 
File: 1.06 MB, 1746x1200, 1499807244871.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Or I can just not play that game
that's what I said, quit bitching and play something else instead. I realize it's not for everyone.

Another workaround in pre-internet times was falling for the Nintendo Power meme where they withheld essential information so you could purchase it at a premium, although Metroid did this to a far lesser extent than other games (like Zelda 1 and 2).

>> No.4114230



>> No.4114246

No, I'm gonna say it sucks.

>> No.4114327

well, it only sucks to you though. enough people are willing to defend this game that we have this same thread with the same argument every other week.

what you state is an entirely subjective assessment. there is no point arguing about statements like these, nor is there any argument in them.

>> No.4114372

Most people aren't willing to draw their own maps, maybe that's why metroid has such shitty sales.

>> No.4114404

Try harder. The sole fact of us arguing about it here and now is testament to the games popularity and undying legacy.

>> No.4114491

Im only talking about its legacy of being a shitty game

>> No.4114542

Do you really think posts like these accomplish anything besides making you sound like an angry, autistic child?

>> No.4114607

Lol, truly

>> No.4114908

It doesn't suck, it's just boring with all the back tracking and lack of map to show where you are.

>> No.4114925

It looks boring, sounds boring, plays boring. Therefore, I think it sucks!

>> No.4114958

Drawing maps for old games is fun as hell, I love mapping out the entire layout of dungeons in rpgs and such.
However the map of Metroid 2 have some areas that overlap and there's no way to know this, and it made me spend hours trying to figure out what I did wrong. What a bitch of a game. Still pretty good otherwise though.

>> No.4114970
File: 626 KB, 1536x2048, 11WbG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I just think maybe it needs.. I dunno.
Maybe some polishing up?
Maybe add an outside area? You kinda feel locked in this huge labyrinth.

What would You add to make it better?

>> No.4114989

I think maybe it needs... I dunno.
Maybe better graphics?
Maybe updated music?
Maybe a gba remake that makes it better in every way?

I'd do something like that.

>> No.4114995

They actually did add an outside area when you revisited the planet in Super Metroid, and also put it in the remake. I'm not trying to support the other guy though because he's an ass.

>> No.4115109

>an ass
Go to the hell

>> No.4115114

Nah bruh, it's actually really good

>> No.4115135

Honestly, if you genuinely, unironically think that Metroid 1 is a "bad game" that "sucks", I think you are on the wrong board. Maybe spend your days on >>>/v/ until school starts again. You know nothing.

>> No.4115138

No way. Contra is better.

>> No.4115163

The complete lack of self awareness in most posters really makes /vr/ feel like a videogame forum from the 90s when it comes to internet flamewars.

>> No.4115167

Metroid is literally one of the moderately easy NES titles. More NES games are harder just for being broken.
If you literally chose games at random from the NES library there's a good chance it's as hard or harder game than Metroid.

Hell I'll do that now.
TMNT - way fuckin harder
Snake Rattle Roll - about same.
1942 - much harder
Snake's Revenge -? iunno
Uncharted Waters - boringer
RC MVP baseball - harder
Micro Machines - harder
Pinball - harder
Three Stooges - harder
Flintstones hoppy - ? looks easier.
Battle Tank - harder
Super Mario Bros - harder
Ice Climber - harder
Breakthru - ? dunno, videos seem to be at least as challenging if not more so.
Ikari Warriors - harder
Double Dragon 2 - harder

You get the idea, you can do this shit all day. Metroid is not a game that goes on the list of difficult games for the NES. It's a bit easier than Zelda 1. If I'd have to guess I'd place something around one standard deviation easier than the average NES game.

>> No.4115186

The sound and music in Metroid is fine. It plays well.

For the time it looked decent, albeit spartan with no background but that helped the gameplay and had level design and enemy placement stand out. Even in Super Metriod the backgrounds are often relegated to dark tiles or repetitive faded backgrounds that are unobtrusive. Not that having backgrounds was the hallmark of NES games. Three of the songs are fucking amazing (title, brinstar, kraid) the rest could be better.

>You kinda feel locked in this huge labyrinth.
So the game largely about infiltrating a huge underground labyrinth base complex feels like being locked in a huge labyrinth? Who'd have thought.

>> No.4115196
File: 13 KB, 387x309, 1431182670140.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>dunno, videos seem to be at least as challenging if not more so.

>Determining level of difficulty in a game without even playing it.

>> No.4115201

>Three of the songs are fucking amazing (title, brinstar, kraid) the rest could be better.
Norfair, Ridley's Hideout, Tourian/Boss Theme and Mother Brain (aka Zebetite) are pretty amelodic and dreadful. But that's the point: Metroid eschewed the up-beat happy soundtracks of contemporary video games and went for a darker, atmospheric approach that complements the overall graphical and gameplay design. Admittedly, I quite dislike Ridley's Hideout. It makes me uncomfortable and wanting to get the hell out of there ASAP. This may be intentional.

Also, how DARE you forget the absolutely cathartic end/credit theme.

>> No.4115220

End theme is entirely forgettable schlock. It's not bad but it's not good either. It's just there. If it gives you the wiggles or whatever grats, but it's basically non-existence filler music.

The problem with Norfair and Ridleys weren't that they were darker and atsmopheric, which can be fitting is that they're repetitive in an annoying way and aren't even pleasing in an atmospheric fashion. Ridley's is wowowowowowow until your ears bleed.
If anything Kraid's the song that gets atmosphere right and actually captures multiple emotions well with it's melody.
Norfair feels like they just got tired after composing Kraid and said fuck it, just throw five notes back and fourth and then kick in a shitty passage that barely even makes it more interesting.
Even the 'secret area' item room music is better than Norfair and Ridley. Because at least it's atmospherically pleasing and also limited in usage.

It's difficult to get truly inspiring dreadful ambient music in older games, usually they require expressive and dynamic tonality to make up for their more spartan nature.

>> No.4115224

You know when you're stuck walking behind a zoomer because you can't jump over it?

That's like walking behind your cat in the hallway.

>> No.4115312

Yeah, I know. Those tracks get the job done, but they are far from perfect. I still like them though, especially Norfair, for some reason.

That being said, I wholly understand your view.

>> No.4116000

Not him, but what are you on about? It is not a game for "advanced players" as you said, and he countered your point. Boring game desu.

>> No.4116634
File: 104 KB, 1000x384, mim10.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The manual came with a map

>> No.4116784

What a map, lol

>> No.4116975

I'd draw a better one if I tried, but I'm not gonna try, because I'm not gonna play that game, haha

>> No.4117030
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There was a manga walkthrough in Japan with detailed descriptions of what is where. It's entertaining in a cheesy way.

>> No.4117094

Zero Mission had worse music, atmosphere, and it constantly tells you exactly where to go. The original is better.

>> No.4117119

His complaint was that you can't judge the challenge of a game by watching a video. Which he's partially correct, I mean mostly wrong but partially correct.

For example if a game required you to hit a then b and repeat that 8 times before it'll take a directional input and then do the same to stop movement, if someone had a tas or was really really good at it, you'd never know watching a video until you sat down.
That being said that's an extreme example to try to meet his point half way and only makes a minor point because thinking every game is that way is fucking retarded, they aren't. If you've been gaming for more than three seconds in your life you'd realize that the most games do is implement button combinations for special moves and have variations of momentum with possible minor combinations/exploits for movement strategies ala straferunning in doom or bunnyhopping for example.
So here's the problem with what he suggested, you can see how fast enemies come at you, how fast they shoot, the diversity of placement, you can literally see hit box/collision issues often times easier in a video as you can concentrate on paying attention to the video feedback rather than separating concentration on mechanical input. So from a video you can get a very high conceptual understanding of what challenge a game at minimum can have on footage alone. It doesn't take into account difficulty settings or advanced techniques that may make certain things more difficult but you can almost definitely get a ballpark estimate to how difficult something is in general by knowing your own limitations and others as well if you can grasp what's going on in a video by paying the fuck attention rather than drooling like a retard.

Basically, he's being a full retard, never go full retard.

>> No.4117123

Started recently for the first time and i like it, but the level layout is confusing so i have to make a map on paper to guide myself

>> No.4117130

The only problem with it is telling you where to go. The others are wrong. Metroid sucks.

>> No.4117153

>and it constantly tells you exactly where to go.
It gives you an 'optional' objective point. It doesn't tell you exactly where to go. It tells you exactly where you could eventually end up. It doesn't walk you there and the objective marker sort of doesn't work quite right when you start sequence breaking which ZM let's you do hard.

Also ZM's music is good but hindered by shitty quality audio. The music isn't the problem, the poor sample quality, recordings, and production values are the problem.. If you drop a 2/4K lowpass over it, it sounds significantly better instead of beaming straight white noise into your skull.

It's also plenty atmospheric even more so than the original especially since they fixed other parts of the music that the original did poorly.

>> No.4117190

The starkness of the title screen in the original sounded better.
Item room theme sounded more eerie since it had nothing in the background.
Norfair had more wierd/playful chords.
I hate the horrible garbled choir in general, but it really ruined Kraid's theme.
The song extensions are mostly boring.

I really like Ridley's theme remake though. Tourian didn't sound bad.

I'll try using a lowpass filter next time I play it.

>> No.4117329

>I really like Ridley's theme remake though.
The whole of norfair is improved imho.

It's basically playing off elements what the SNES went with and it gives Norfair much more life. Instead of just being sort of bland and almost annoying highly repetitive meh it turns Norfair into a foreboding and dangerous ancient temple of brimstone awakening from slumber. The SNES version is similar but adds sort of a threatening layer like you're an explorer in the former and it wants to let you know you just walked into the wrong neighborhood motherfucker.

Kraid's Lair from the NES was spot on, the SNES version with Lower Brinstar okay but it's just not the same as the alien sounding, awe inspiring invitational playful waltz of doom thing the NES has going for it that tugs back and fourth between being being wonderous, being joyous, and foreboding death that awaits and instead plays out almost as a foresty version of what Norfair on the SNES was doing.

On any list of greatest video game music in history Kraid's Lair on the NES deserves a spot near the top. Unfortunately it outclasses every other song in it's own game hand's down. The ZM version attempts to do it justice but fails not only in clarity in both sound quality and also clarity of melody. The ZM version tries to fill out alot of the tonal space with all sorts of things that sort of detract from the piece by making it feel fuller when that's the the opposite of what it needs. During the bass drop the original just grabs the shit out of you with a bassy undertone and just jabs you with single distinct notes that stick there with reverence like these are going to be the most clearest most important notes of your soon to be shortened life. The entire piece sounds like the whole environment is confident in it's control and it's tempo invites you to be it's latest meal. The ZM version sounds like it's tries to interject an ancient chorusy and heroic trumpeting to make you feel like your a hero in this place.

>> No.4117467

Your analysis is off. I believe the kraid lair from ZM attempts to create an epic build up before a battle, which you can hear in its use of orchestral instrumentation and vocals, whereas the nes version was going for a more creepy vibe. However, some of that bleeds through into the ZM version, when the high-pitched notes enter.

>> No.4117736

Prime hunters, 1 ,2 and pinball are not worse than Other M

They at least did something right. Other M did nothing right, it got everything wrong and bad.

>> No.4117870

No, my analysis is correct and your statement agreed. It does try to do that and that's why it's bad.
The ZM version is just an 'enhanced' version of the NES. The melody and bass are the same remastered to sound like ass with some worse instruments.

>> No.4118204

Alright. Well, I think it succeeds and I like ZM version better :)

>> No.4118760

At that point I'd just look up a guide online.

>> No.4119495

You suck

>> No.4119503

Go back to /v/, mother fucker.

Also /vr/ I know it's new, but can you talk about Samus Returns here?

>> No.4119545

I dont think so because it's a 3ds game.

>> No.4119562


God you pretentious faggots are cancerous. Just admit that you stared at the screen with a lifelessly while soaking up all that "atmosphere." Even a casual who rages on CoD online multiplayer gets video games better than you since it actually elicits a feeling out of them, even if it is anger.

>> No.4119564

Damn, I would love to talk about it here, I hate /v/. Well at least I can still talk about Metroid 1-Fusion here.

>> No.4119568

True. Castlevania and Contra have more immersion than fucking metroid

>> No.4119584

I remember Rabi Ribi being higher on that list. Or was it a different one?

>> No.4119604 [DELETED] 
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>> No.4119727

Maybe you just remembered wrong

>> No.4119765

>run around and shoot stuff!!!!11
>great immersion

>> No.4119801

Yeah it's really quite shit. Zero mission is about a million times better.

>> No.4119816

Woops, sorry. All nes games have shit immersion and make me feel like an ass for playing them. Better?

>> No.4119841

It certainly is a more comprehensible view, yes.

Contra is a great game, but never have I heard it being lauded for its atmosphere and immersion.

>> No.4119848

DoS and PoR should be one tier lower
and Am2r higher. You forgot to add hollow knight and cave story.

>> No.4119853

Is that the one that arino was using during his playtrough?

>> No.4119856

Yes you can. You can talk about every remake you want.

>> No.4119874

>but the level layout is confusing so i have to make a map on paper to guide myself

Which is half the fun of this game

>> No.4119912

You actually don't. I've beaten it multiple times without a map even when I was a kid. You learn the map in your head by just playing it.

>> No.4120596

Yeah, fuck making a map, jesus.

>> No.4120647

It gets a lot better when you find out you can skip all the horrible vertical shaft backtracking with up+a on controller 2 then pressing start.

>> No.4120690
File: 19 KB, 1292x1056, metroid 1 map.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I'm that anon, and no, I did my really crude map in MS Paint. I didn't entirely finish it since I wasn't aiming for 100% completion and found enough E-Tanks and missiles to last the whole game.

>> No.4120949

>Having ms paint open while playing nes game

>> No.4120954

Meh, it takes up less space than making a real pen/paper map.

>> No.4120973
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The game can be enjoyable if you do what every other kid did when it first came out: draw a physical map.
Makes it a lot easier and it will still feel like you're progressing without removing the feeling of exploration.

>> No.4121090

Im pretty sure every kid looked up the nintendo power guide

>> No.4121386


>> No.4121391

>looked up
How fucking young are you that you think that people could just "looked up" stuff. Very few people had internet and even fewer played video games AND had an internet capable PC.

>> No.4121556

They looked inside the magazine, thus "looking up" what they needed to find

>> No.4121580

Why the fuck not? I frequently open notepad while emulating games to take notes.

>> No.4121592
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Yes. Here's where you can get it.

>> No.4121646

>emulating nes games

>> No.4121818

Yeah I can't wait for it, it feels good to see 2D Metroid back and Sakamoto once again being reinvigorated to make 2D Metroid games again.

>> No.4121918

The one thing I'm worried about is the free aim mode. It's really cool, but you have to stand still to use it, so I hope it won't replace the diagonal aiming from every game since Super. Maybe the ZL and ZR triggers on "New" 3DS's will let you do that? Iunno...

>> No.4121962
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Wow, ty anon, I wanted to download it since I saw it on the episode. Really appreciated.

Meh, I still don't get why nintendo would make another remake when am2r was already a perfect game. Personally I don't like the graphic style that they choosed, expecially the 3d backgrounds. So probably I won't buy it.

Afaik they disabled diagonal aiming with
shoulders buttons, so there will probably be any assisted aiming.

>> No.4121993

You do realize it takes a long time to make a game and they didn't only start on it after AM2R came out, right?

>> No.4122503

Don't worry, the IGN video showed that diagonal aiming is still in the game.

>> No.4122605

They started making a 3D Metroid without the consent from Nintendo.

After their pitch, Nintendo asked for a remake of Metroid 2 after AM2R was already out. So Mercury Steam remade Metroid 2 with their shitty 2D Castlevania engine.

>> No.4122714

Not him, but I'm happy they have a team now, I can see us getting Metroid 5 next since Sakamoto wants continue making 2D Metroid games now and has a team that can do it. I hope MercurySteam can prove themselves with Samus Returns that way we can get Metroid 5 next.

>> No.4122891

Does it really? I should check it out, thanks!

>> No.4122925

Yes and you're welcome

>> No.4123071

Hm, so I just watched it and it seems like it is in, but the person playing only really used it with the circle pad. I hope she was just incompetent and there was a way to diagonal aim with the shoulder buttons, instead of the circle pad being the only way to do that.

>> No.4125017

if you want a 2d metroid 2 remake just play AM2R

it's probably the most official-feeling fangame I've ever played

>> No.4126041

I played super metroid first, then II, then metroid

the problems with metroid are:
1. the health always starts low, which they really should have caught and fixed
2. the enemies are best avoided, not killed
3. no diagonal shot (understandable)

other than that, it's a fine game

not surprisingly, I like super>II>1
also fusion and zero mission are great too
never played a 2d metroid game I didn't like

>> No.4127224

>1. the health always starts low, which they really should have caught and fixed
Less relevant since it can be completed relatively fast and you should basically never die.

>2. the enemies are best avoided, not killed
Either or, it doesn't really make much of a difference but that's not a pro or a con. That's a decision you make and if you get enjoyment out of killing everything then so be it, if you get enjoyment out of being more evasive, that's fine too. There are no requirements there and no choice is outright better than the other except for situationally like freeze-hops over certain segments or enemies like locking down hoppers or zebs etc...

>3. no diagonal shot (understandable)
Many similar games with shooting of the era didn't and it's not largely necessary either. If there's one complaint that's really valid it's not being able to hit low enemies without bombing them. Not being able to shoot diagonal isn't really a problem at all in the game at least not in the same way that you can't even shoot vertically in megaman games.

>> No.4128241

Yeah, Blaster Master is the best Metroidvania on the NES, full stop.

>> No.4128918

Me too

>> No.4128932
File: 435 KB, 1280x720, Screenshot_20170625-153335.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Including AM2R on list

>> No.4129475

fanmade or not, it's one of the best metroid games in the entire franchise

>> No.4129513

It fuckin sucks tho

>> No.4129621

I'm sorry you have shit taste

>> No.4129652

No it isn't, this shoddy overgloriefied romhack does everything wrong

>> No.4129667

>does everything wrong

I'm sorry, were you dropped on your head as a baby?

>> No.4130010

I didn't know I entered a Sonic Mania shitpost thread

>> No.4130662


>> No.4131125

It has the best controls out of any 2d metroid. Binding morph ball to a single button was ingenious, you can jump up and spiderball to the ceiling and shit easily, moving around in the game is just fun.

The secrets are actually challenging to collect, most of them are like little mini-puzzles, while in other metroid games they're just kind of laying around

>> No.4132169

It's a fucking fan game, it's not a Metroid game and it never will be/

>> No.4132173


>> No.4132178

Would you go as far to say that AM2R is GROSS and DANGEROUS?

>> No.4132186

It's a fangame, I don't give a crap about fangames.

>> No.4132217

Do you need a bandaid for the edge you're cutting yourself on?

>> No.4132268

Do you? I only care for the official games, nothing else.

>> No.4132285

it is literally a metroid game whether you like it or not

>> No.4132293

I don't remember it being OFFICIAL.

>> No.4132305

Does that really matter?

>> No.4132309

Yes, it matters a lot.

>> No.4132315
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>> No.4132323

Because the official games are made by Nintendo.

>> No.4132324

Yeah but I don't see what that has to do with AM2R.

>> No.4132326

Is it made by Nintendo?

>> No.4132329

You haven't answered the question.

>> No.4132339


>> No.4132369

So was Other M, which I will never consider canon no matter how official it is

Just accept the fact that Nintendo doesn't know what the fuck to do with Metroid anymore.

Axiom Verge, AM2R, and Rogue Dawn proved that fans can make better Metroid games than Nintendo. Nintendo is more interested in letting Sakamoto publicly wank off to his waifu fantasy than create interesting worlds to explore

>> No.4132398

Is Other M a 2D Metroid game?
Is Other M a Prime Metroid game?

But I did

Then it's not a Metroid game.

>> No.4132408

It actually is a Metroid game.
A fan-made one.

>> No.4132413

>A fan-made one
Yes, not an official one.

>> No.4132423
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>the game isn't official
why does it matter
>because Nintendo didn't make it
why does it matter
>because that means the game isn't official

>> No.4132425

And that matters why?
Are you so mindlessly brand-loyal that you refuse to let yourself enjoy good games just because big daddy Nintendo didn't tell you it was okay?

>> No.4132428

It may not matter to you but it matters to me, but that's mainly my opinion on the matter.

>> No.4132432

I don't think anyone is arguing that, anon. It seems we're in agreement that AM2R is fanmade and not official.

>> No.4132437

Yes, if a 2D Metroid game isn't made y Nintendo, I will not play it, I don't play fan games. If a Halo game (yea I know Halo isn't part of /vr/) isn't done by Microsoft, I will not play it.

>> No.4132440

Yes I agree


>> No.4132443

But you can't even answer why it matters. Your opinion is retarded.

>> No.4132446

Oh, so you're retarded. Why didn't you just say so in the first place?

Do you get this autistically upset over the fact that George Lucas didn't make the new Star Wars movies?

>> No.4132447

That seems like an arbitrary reason not to play a good game

>> No.4132458

Because I only play games that owned by a company from that company, if those fan Metroid games were like Axiom Verge, a completely original game made from the ground up that isn't an IP owned by a big company, then I would play it.

Star Wars is owned by Disney not made by some random fan, I only care about officially released products no matter the company.

I'm sorry if you don't like my answer, but if it's an ip that is made officially by someone else I will not play the unofficial version.

>> No.4132463
File: 1.45 MB, 255x191, ameer.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I only care about officially released products no matter the company

good goy

>> No.4132465

But what if the official version isn't good?

>> No.4132472

Then I won't play it, or if I already have it, I will just sell it back.

>> No.4132476

But if the good fangame was made official would you play it then?

>> No.4132479

you don't understand, official = good, unofficial = bad

if big daddy nintendo says it's bad then it's bad. I'm a good little consumer

>> No.4132485


>> No.4132493

damn you're a moron

>> No.4132498

Do you even know why you only play officially released games? Is it just a gut feeling? Have you put any consideration into this opinion at all?

>> No.4132502

What's the problem with that, I like talking about the story connections in my games, if it's fanmade, how the fuck can I talk about the canon and what it adds, when it's not official, why I you such an easily triggered bitch over someone who has a completely different opinion then yours. Am I saying you need to agree with me and not play fangames like me? No then shut fuck up and move on.
>triggered by someone else's opinion
What are you, 5? Grow up

>> No.4132503

it's mindless brand loyalty

>> No.4132505


>> No.4132508


>> No.4132510

>if it's fanmade, how the fuck can I talk about the canon and what it adds

It's a fucking remake of an official game. Even if it weren't, it doesn't matter. You are a delusional fanboy and I doubt a critical thought has ever passed through your thick little consumerist skull

>> No.4132514

Because we all know that Other M added a lot to the Metroid canon. Good thing it's official :^)

>> No.4132516

Still giving a fuck about my opinion, no really how old are you, you sound like a child?

>> No.4132518

Why would you care about the story in a game with almost none of it and a huge focus on gameplay?

>> No.4132526

But once again, is Other M a traditional style game or a Prime style game?

>> No.4132531

It's official canon. Isn't that what matters? (To you.)

>> No.4132534

Because I like not only talking about the gameplay, exploration, and boss fights, I also like talking about the lore of 2D Metroid games and where it would lead in the series future.

>> No.4132537

According to you it doesn't matter just as long as it's official. It's part of the Metroid canon you know, all 2d and 3d games are canon. Even the shitty ones.
And we all know how important story is in fucking Metroid games.

>> No.4132539

I'm 30.
If I had to guess your age I'd say about 5, at least mentally speaking

>> No.4132540

No, it's not a Metroid game, there are only two types of Metroid games that exist, the traditional style and the Prime style, Other M fits none of these categories.

>> No.4132541
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But we already know the lore of Metroid 2, so neither the unofficial or official remake would change anything for you in that department.

>> No.4132545

That doesn't make it non-canon you dense fuck

>> No.4132548




>> No.4132550


Then acting like a fucking teenager, act your damn age.

>> No.4132553
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Holy fucking shit. You care this much about official canon and you're just going to casually disregard the existence of official games?

>> No.4132554

>he considers Other M of all games, canon

But Samus Returns will add some new stuff.

>> No.4132557

Other M was built as a 2D game in essence, though. The game was developed with the intention of being largely linear hallways with dynamic camera movements to evoke a feeling similar to the 2D Metroid games. Sakamoto even insisted on the Wii remote being the only way to control the game because it had the same button as the NES and the control scheme could thus be as close as possible to the 2D games.
What new stuff will Samus Returns add?

>> No.4132560

Yes, Other M was pure garbage, I can careless if it got written off, it literally does nothing for Metroid's lore, it's just there. If you remove Other M, nothing would change.

>> No.4132561

Why do you say retarded shit in a matter-of-fact tone as if that magically makes you correct?
The 2D and 3D games are part of the same canon, you dense twit.

The point is it's a shitty game that's officially canon, and that there are good non-canon fangames that are infinitely superior

>> No.4132565

but it's official, nintendo made it

>> No.4132568

Other M should have just been a 2D game like it was originally supposed to be, but it's not and it adds nothing to the series.

>What new stuff will Samus Returns add?
It will have something similar to what Zero Mission did after Mother Brain.

>> No.4132569

I hate Other M too, and wouldn't consider it part of the larger story. Do you know what that means? I don't actually gave a damn about official canon like you claim to!

>> No.4132570
File: 281 KB, 520x360, 8cb06af162a165a431aad768bb5d95af.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I didn't authorize you to enjoy this fangame

>> No.4132573

Yes and it was shit

>> No.4132575

And it's canon! You love canon, don't you? :^)

>> No.4132578

If you don't consider other M canon even though it's official, then that destroys your entire reason for not playing fangames you dense motherfucker.

>> No.4132579

You might as well throw out canon if that piece of shit is canon.

>> No.4132582

Look, it doesn't matter if the game's official if it's pure shit then I will skip right over it and treat it like it never happened.

>> No.4132586

If that's the case, then there's there's no harm in playing a non-canon fangame.

I enjoy fan-made Star Trek series like Star Trek Continues, and it doesn't bother me one bit that they're non-canon, compared to shitty series like Voyager that are canon.

Canon and officiality just aren't important as you make them out to be.

>> No.4132591
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>it doesn't matter if the game's official
Then why don't you play fangames.

>> No.4132592

But it did happen, it's official. Being official is important, remember? It's official, and it's canon. It's officially part of the Metroid story. Official!

>> No.4132595

You know what, fuck it, I'm done.

>> No.4132602

get the fuck out of here with your logic and reason, all we want here are feeling based brand loyalty

>> No.4132603

are you a journalist? because that was a nice display of taking something out of context

>> No.4132608

Not him, but the fact it's so self-contradictory is what makes it non-canon

>> No.4132613

Talk about acting like a teenager. Your argument has been completely and utterly destroyed, and you lack the modesty to admit you're wrong. Do us a favor and stay done.

>> No.4132615

I've been following it for a little bit and while I find the 'muh official games' dude weird. you're a fucking retard that can't read nor reason. you trying to debunk his reasoning has been one big display of retardation

>> No.4132621



>> No.4132625

It has dated horribly compared to its sequels. No map and stiff shooting controls really hurt this kind of game.
>"I cleared it without a map back then you sissy"
Good for you but that doesn't mean it was a good design.

>> No.4132632

am2r is so good it might as well be official

>> No.4133089

Nintendo apparently doesn't agree with your sentiment :^)

>> No.4133092

Yeah but they made Other M so I don't believe much in their "seal of quality"

>> No.4133113

Yeah, I couldn't get into any metroid games until Super Metroid, love the series a shit ton though.

>> No.4133171

If a game is good, its good. Who cares.

>> No.4133175
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It was a good design, if not, then the game would have fallen into obscurity for all its postulated design flaws, never even receiving a sequel. Yet here we are talking about it, over 30 years later.

Regarding the poopfest this thread has become and joining in on the general doodoo-calling:
Nintendo doesn't even "make" Metroid games anymore. They haven't for a long time. Yes, they own the IP, but they license it to outside studios so they can make content for them, simply because Nintendo can't be bothered to handle the process themselves (and they get to save money, too!). Their past decision has proven their absolute lack of judgement in this regard. Sure, this process gave us the prime trilogy, but also other M. They even sheepishly decided to let the people who made Castlevania: Lords of Shadows work on the remake for Metroid II (at least they have experience in ruining 2D franchises by turning them 3D, right?). The point is: Nintendo doesn't handle the franchise with the care it deserves, especially considering how dearly beloved it is by its fans. In light of this, it is entirely understandable and legitimate for fans to produce their own content that matches the rightfully deserved production value of the main series, even if the story is "not canon" and the next "official" game will crap all over it. Story was never one of the main aspects of the franchise, though, take a step back and it turns out it's just some generic sci-fi bullshit. It's the immersive gameplay, the exploration, the atmosphere that makes it special. Nintendo does not own a monopoly on that, so fans may feel free to produce quality games of their own to be enjoyed by other fans, regardless of where they'd fit with the "official" "canon". If you insist on exlclusively gargling the shit Nintendo dumps into your throat, sure, go ahead, but remember that you're the one missing out.

>> No.4133517

>ball-jumping to a low ceiling and hitting the spider ball button at the right moment to hang on
I love doing this.

>> No.4134009

Good=/=Perfect, and
You can enjoy a game and still admit it's flawed. Why can't this board do that for Metroid NES?

The fact Nintendo licenses out their Metroid games to other developers means nothing, they do this for countless amounts of their games. They have so many IP's, but they can't possibly have enough in-house developers to work on every game all the time. And even when they are getting help from other developers, Nintendo works very closely with them. If it was just the new developer, then why would Sakamoto be with Mercury Steam on Samus Returns? Last I checked, he doesn't work for them.
Not to mention, Nintendo could very well BE developing Prime 4 themselves, as Retro isn't dev'ing it. All we know is that Tanabe is leading it for now, though.
Finally, what right do you have to criticize Samus Returns when it hasn't even bloody come out? "Hurr uhh muh 3D graphicz aaaaaand muh totally-non-intrusive-bcz-i-can-choose-not-to-use-it-if-i-don't-want-to free aim, Aeion, and Action Command!!"
Fuck off. Fuck right off.

>> No.4134107

>aaaaaand muh totally-non-intrusive-bcz-i-can-choose-not-to-use-it-if-i-don't-want-to free aim, Aeion, and Action Command!!
If you have to ignore half the mechanics in the game out of finding them unfun that's not a very good indicator that you're going to enjoy the game.

>> No.4134153

*New mechanics, where all the old ones are fully functional
And again, it hasn't COME OUT YET, so the hell are you flapping your tits about?

>> No.4134163
File: 239 KB, 2382x458, 1424298444918.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>it hasn't COME OUT YET
I know where this is going

>> No.4134403

>They only show a few minutes of gameplay from the beginning until the first Metroid

>> No.4135490


>> No.4135697
File: 471 KB, 975x526, Label - Super Metroid (SFC Art).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Okay, but don't you talk shit about the holy grail

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