CRT's btfo

[Anonymous No.4090396]

After reading about input lag here, I hooked my Wii up to my bargain tier LCD tv. I'm willing to argue that the resulting input lag is completely acceptable. Pic related.

[Anonymous No.4090402]

>>4090396
DUDE LCD

[Anonymous No.4090403]

I won't argue with you, enjoy your preferred method of visual display anon.

[Anonymous No.4090419]

>>4090403

Lol, I prefer CRT's. I just like pissing on the trolls who over exaggerate input lag. Any LCD mad in the last five years should do the job

[Anonymous No.4090694]

>>4090396
0/troll

[Anonymous No.4091538]

>>4090694

Point is. LCD's are fine now. Black levels are good, upscaling lag is non existent

[Anonymous No.4091601]

>>4090396
>completely acceptable
sure it's acceptable, but you're not really experiencing the game at its best, if you're fine with that and still having fun, I have no problem with it, but don't try to convince others input lag doesn't matter or will not effect your enjoyment of a game.

[Anonymous No.4091609]

>>4091601

Input lag does matter, but it doesn't exist in a meaningful way on LCD displays anymore.

[Anonymous No.4091626]

>>4090396
So you cheated, good for you.

[Anonymous No.4091672]

>>4091538
>LCD's are fine now
>now
It only took them how many years?
But CRTs (and plasmas) had to die first of course.
>>4091609
Maybe if you use OSSC/XRGB3 on "lagless" monitor. LCD TVs on their own still upscale too slow, and many modern ones still have 1-2 frames of lag in "game mode".

[Anonymous No.4091676]

>>4091538
>upscaling lag is non existent
-1/troll

[Anonymous No.4091808]

>>4091626

Saying I cheated to beat punch out this way....thanks man, I am so good that it's hard to believe it's true

[Anonymous No.4091814]

>>4091676

Still blaming lag because you're bad at your Nintendo?

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4091827]

"Acceptable" is subjective and therefore cannot be argued or more precisely cannot be established through argument.

That having been said, assuming you're using component cables and have your Wii set to 480p and I see you're using the Gamecube port for your controllers then you should only be dealing with the inherent delay of your panel which in most cases isn't too bad especially if it has a "game mode"

That's one of the nice things about the Wii is that it goes back and forth from interlaced to progressive scan easily.

[Anonymous No.4091853]

>>4091827
>then you should only be dealing with the inherent delay of your panel
Isn't this true only for native Gamecube/Wii games, and all other games will be affected by emulation lag?

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4091873]

>>4091853
Emulation lag has become fairly comparable to the lag of actual consoles, within a few milliseconds in many cases.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4091876]

Woops, meant to post this one

[Anonymous No.4091881]

>>4091814
Try playing a lightgun game on a LCD.

It won't work, because the lag still exists.

You may not personally notice it, but it's still there, and LCDs will never be fast enough for lightgun games to work.

[Anonymous No.4091893]

>>4091881

Yeah, 99% of games are ok with milliseconds of lag. I'm ok with that

[Anonymous No.4091905]

>>4091876

I'm glad that you posted this

[Anonymous No.4091926]

>>4090396
Hahahaahhah nice you are played the game in modified form.


Hahahaahahh ugh.

[Anonymous No.4091934]

>>4090396
>beat game on crt
>unplug RCA connector
>put in LCD
Nice try nerd.

I think for most it's more about picture then lag, at least to me. If it works then whatever, just play it.

[Anonymous No.4091943]

>>4091934

>>Claiming that I swapped from a crt to LCD.

Thanks mang

[Anonymous No.4091947]

>>4091926

99% the same ; )

[Anonymous No.4091952]

>>4091934
He lost on Von Kaiser

[Anonymous No.4091956]

>>4091947
Not really. Sound lag, input lag and other issues. Plus old games are meant to be used with crt and not looking like that lcd on screen.

[Anonymous No.4091965]

>>4091956

No sound lag and an acceptable input lag. No problems. Also, crts aren't necessary, they're just a meme

[Anonymous No.4091981]

>>4091876
this is wrong tho, theres far less then 3.6f of lag on a snes to crt... its more like 1/3 of a single frame.

[Anonymous No.4091990]

>>4091965
Nah you just a butthurt baby, crts is what developers used. And made games with.

Your image looks like a clear pc monitor making the graphics lose the added effect. Plus there certain things crt was used for game wise which lcd don't do.

Anyway rip vc.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4092003]

>>4091981
The test was recorded at 240 fps they're referring to the camera's frames not the display's frames. That should probably be added to the image

https://forums.libretro.com/t/an-input-lag-investigation/4407/424

[Anonymous No.4092004]

>>4091990

>> butthurt baby

Nah man, I'm cool just using whatever is available. Keep on shillin' like a villain crt guy

[Anonymous No.4092019]

>>4090396
I am also able to play timing sensitive games like fighters and platformers in my LCD without issue.

I wanna play Tetris Attack now.

[Anonymous No.4092058]

>>4092004
Crt good. You are objectively wrong.

Bai bai see you next timeeee.

[Anonymous No.4092103]

>>4090396
Doesn't bother you? Cool. Good. Go for it. Nice thread, anon.

[Anonymous No.4092129]

>>4092058

Kayyy

[Anonymous No.4092160]

>>4090396
Play this on your LCD then tell me how well you did.

[Anonymous No.4092204]

>>4092160

>> so much butthurt

Ill tell you how well light gun games work on an LCD you tell me how the developers intended us to play side scrolling games with distorted geometry

[Anonymous No.4092221]

>>4091814
I'm still blaming retards for being retarded

>>4092003
The lengths kids will go to to justify they poorfaggotry. If you run across any legit tests please don't post them as it will upset the children.

[Anonymous No.4092232]

>>4092221

You sound like you've got it all figured out. I pitty faggots who don't use the same retro set up as you.

[Anonymous No.4092672]

>beating the timing nerfed VC version meant for LCDs on an LCD

Cool story bro.

[Anonymous No.4092678]

>>4092160
It's not even a matter of refresh, it's a matter of how the screen is drawn. The light gun literally sees the beam at the instant it is firing, and that's when it sends it back to the console.

So no, of course lcds never do that, but it's not even the same discussion to call it input lag or frame lag. It just doesn't work.

[Anonymous No.4092768]

>>4092232
Sure do. It's not exactly rocket science. But maybe beyond the abilities of a kid with an iphone who wants to prove emulators don't have lag. At least he provides the methodology and data so people capable of understanding what's going on can. The only real fools are the people who interpret that as proof LCDs don't have lag.

[Anonymous No.4092961]

>>4091881
>Try playing a lightgun game on a LCD. It won't work, because the lag still exists.
Just fyi, lag is the reason lightguns don't work on an HDCRT.

Plat panel displays use a fundamentally different way of drawing the image so they wouldn't even work on a theoretical lagless one.

[Anonymous No.4093079]

>>4092768

This thread is about acceptable lag. There's no claim of no lag....fucking reading comprehension is rarer and rarer these days.

[Anonymous No.4093082]

>>4091827

Yes, it's great that Wii will output in 480p so that the tv knows how to properly upscale the image and a timely manner

[Anonymous No.4093086]

>>4090396
I think input lag was only happen on smart TV. I have no input lag problem on normal LCD(cheap LCDTV).

[Anonymous No.4093116]

>>4090396
I'm running my retro consoles through a euro SCART to hdmi converter/upscaler. The input lag for me is totally negligible. There may be input lag, but I certainly don't notice it.

A lot of people forget to setup their tvs correctly. They forget to set their tv to game mode or in some cases PC mode has less lag. Gotta turn off power saving and any auto anything and processing. Also screen size matters. The bigger the screen, the more lag.

It's so nice playing with correct colors and sharp clarity. Not needing to have a big ugly old heavy crt uglying up the room is nice.

[Anonymous No.4093128]

>Laying your Wii flat.

[Anonymous No.4093142]

>>4093128
>vertical consoles
Hope you enjoy fucked up discs and drives.

[Anonymous No.4093154]

>>4093079
This thread is about arguing for acceptable lag, which acceptable is subjective and so the argument goes towards if there is lag in LCD tv monitors. Which there is

[Anonymous No.4093186]

>>4093154

Ahh, no

[Anonymous No.4093190]

>>4093142
You're a fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.4093216]

>>4093190

I've gotta agree with that anon. A flat Wii wi the way to go, especially with a wired control.

[Anonymous No.4093245]

>>4093079
>This thread is about "CRT's btfo"
>reading comprehension
lol

[Anonymous No.4093270]

>>4093245

>>After reading about input lag here, I hooked my Wii up to my bargain tier LCD tv. I'm willing to argue that the resulting input lag is completely acceptable. Pic related.

You left some out

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4093298]

>>4093154
Everything has lag

>>4092768
Their methodology is the universally accepted one for measuring input lag. Is your argument that the iPhone's high speed video mode is too slow or that its frame rate is inconsistent? Or are you simply accusing the libretro community of being incompetent "kids"?

>>4093245
OP was probably just trying to spark up a successful thread but you're right, CRTs are clearly and objectively still superior in terms of input lag. The LCD used in libretro's study was a Z24i gaming monitor purpose built to have minimal lag vs just any old 99 cent CRT. LCDs will NEVER be able to display a signal faster than CRTs because CRTs are direct analog output devices. The only way they'll ever drive the perceived lag down lower is to get the emulators much faster than the actual consoles - but then you could just play the emulators on CRTs. I wonder what that will be like, when emulators become MORE responsive than actual consoles. Will purists start complaining about that, then?

[Anonymous No.4093474]

>>4093298

Purists will complain and use the whole developers intention meme.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4093492]

>>4093474
The emulators will never be able to PERFECTLY recreate the timing of a particular console but the counterargument is that the variation between original hardware revisions should be considered a reasonable margin of error.

[Anonymous No.4093502]

>>4093492

Exactly. I'll never care that there may be a 0.0000001% difference between actual hardware and emulator. I turfed my genesis/snes hardware and flashcarts once I modded my Wii. Absolutely no regrets. And I'm glad that it's not exactly the same as the original hardware, since I don't have the genesis jailbars and my snes games do t have those two weird dark verticals lines

[Anonymous No.4093507]

>>4091873
>>4091876

That second bar graph looks bullshit

I've heard a SNES on a CRT is about 3 frames of lag, so that's right. But as you can see on the first chart emulators on PC are getting around 6 frames of lag, and I've seen that chart before and it was on one of the fastest monitors available. Now how are they pulling 4 frames on the second graph? There's no information. What OS? RetroArch is a front end, which emulation core?

[Anonymous No.4093514]

>>4093507

It's using a retropi zero via composite out on an RCA LCD tv

[Anonymous No.4093523]

>>4093514
Found the link, that's not right

HP Z24i IPS LCD monitor
Asrock J4205-ITX (Pentium J4205)
4GB DDR3-1866
Integrated Intel HD graphics
RetroLink SNES replica controller (USB) rigged with an LED connected to the B button
Ubuntu 16.10
RetroArch 1.5.0 in KMS mode
Snes9x2010
Settings (which affect input lag): video_max_swapchain_images=2, video_frame_delay=8
Vsync enabled

[Anonymous No.4093526]

>>4093523

I try to use a similar rig with lakka, integrated graphics in all. It won't run anything PlayStation or above. Fucking why?????

[Anonymous No.4093652]

>>4090402
> The game asks you to press L or R.

[Anonymous No.4093676]

>>4090396
hit me up when you can FC hyper 7 and higher charts in beatmania on that bargain tier Liquid Crystal Display Television with 100ms+ input delay.

[Anonymous No.4093683]

>>4091876
>>4091873
Those tests were made using a PAL SNES, and when he testes SNES games at 60fps, he used emulation, not real hard.

[Anonymous No.4093686]

>>4093676

Hahahah, sure, fuck punch out, beatmania is how you test input lag

[Anonymous No.4093690]

>>4093686
considering it's a rhythm game that requires precise timing to full combo a chart, it's probably the best game to measure input delay.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4093706]

>>4093690
Objectively correct, and Beatmania is also the most demanding rhythm game I've ever played but I can probably pin it on the Playstation to USB adapter I was using.

[Anonymous No.4093709]

>>4093706

You throw the word objectively around the same way people throw out literally

[...babbage's gramps RATGzMALL(...) No.4093710]

>>4093709
>>4093706

You're right, I'm sorry. I just can't help but to shit post like a massive faggot sometimes

[Anonymous No.4093723]

>>4093652
There are buttons on the side

[Anonymous No.4093726]

>>4090402
Fcuking... whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Just make an LCD screen that sits on top of the cartridge.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4093737]

>>4093709
Beatmania's demands are very gradually progressive while Punch-Out is somewhat arbitrary, much more influenced by character design.

Also allow me to point out again that OP's screen indicates he lost to Von Kaiser, the second opponent (he shows 1 win and 2 losses)

I do think it'd be possible to beat Punch-Out on Wii if it was hooked up right but I suspect OP is trolling with that image.

[Anonymous No.4093738]

>>4092204
>>4092678
>let me tell you how light guns work
still can't do it.

[Anonymous No.4093815]

>>4093726
I kind of agree, but I also understand the builder/mod pov having built a few things myself. I can tell you that the final result won't get played much (at least not by him) because that wasn't really the point anyway. He did this because he enjoys designing and problem-solving, and it was that process that made it enjoyable and worthwhile. The fact that the end result is rather clean (though unappealing to me personally) and works without a hitch is just gravy.

[Anonymous No.4093856]

>>4093737

OP here. I used a password to get to Tyson and test the lag. Didn't even fight kaiser

[Anonymous No.4093901]

>>4093856
>uses cheats
>has a loss
you threw your point into the garbage.

[Anonymous No.4093974]

>>4093901

Using a password has nothing to do with lag dumb fuck

[Anonymous No.4094359]

>>4093298
>universally accepted
Is your argument that the libretro community is the universe? In terms of anyone who can actually into science it's a silly and flawed methodology.
An accurate test to measure input lag would be to make a small program that polls the controller and accesses something on the bus when it receives input . You put a logic analyzer on the two lines you're interested in and measure the difference. It'll be exactly how long it takes to set a register, check until the controller data has been shifted in and write to an address.
Or you could run the iphone test on a game with a move that has massive start up and watch emufags jizz in their pants at how much "lag" original hardware has.

There are already emulators that can run faster than actual consoles. It's a trade off between speed and accuracy. Since the fastest PC can't emulate a simple CPU with transistor level accuracy it's just a question of how much inaccuracy you're willing to accept.

[Anonymous No.4094441]

>>4092678
Lightpens work like that, but the Zapper just looks for a white box that the screen flashes for a single frame (at 60 fps).

[Anonymous No.4094504]

>>4090396
>I'm willing to argue that the resulting input lag is completely acceptable.
People are also willing to argue the earth is flat and 6000 years old. Doesn't mean they're right.

Also it's sort of irrelevant talking about acceptability of things with people who have the worst or no standards whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.4094505]

>>4091672
>It only took them how many years?
Wouldn't know, they aren't actually fine now. They're better, definitely way better than they used to be but they're still quite a bit away from fine.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4094527]

>>4094359
High speed photography is the gold standard for measuring comparative speed. They don't decide which race horse won with software. Good science minimizes complexity.

[Anonymous No.4094551]

>>4090396
My LED tv runs smoothly emulating via HDMI.
Fuck a lag.

[Anonymous No.4094741]

>>4094527
I haven't seen someone pack so much stupid and wrong into so few words in quite a while. A low end logic analyzer has literally a million times more precision than an iphone camera and is accurate god know how many times more than that. "They" don't measure electronic signals with horse cameras or iphone cameras. Good old common sense and a little bit of knowledge on a subject minimizes retarded posting.

[Anonymous No.4094759]

>>4094505
>they're still quite a bit away from fine.
It's still amazing to me how the whole world threw out displays with far better images and fell for the LCD scam.

I can understand the size and weight issues from a manufacturers point of view, but the fact that fucking PLASMA died out because of an outdated image retention meme still disgusts me. It's just straight up, objectively better than LCD by every possible metric. Anyone who doesn't own an end of life plasma right now, but they do have a 40"+ LCD, is a fucking retard.

CRT dying is understandable to some degree, because plebs were always chasing bigger screen sizes even at the cost of quality.

[Anonymous No.4094810]

I have an old sharp 480p LCD; SNES looks pretty good on it when hooked up via S-Video.

Should try hooking up my Wii via component.

[Anonymous No.4094846]

>>4094759

The best thing I like about plasma is they have way less motion blur than lcds. The Plasma I have is a Panasonic G10, nothing to write home about but still quite nice for modern games.

[Anonymous No.4094847]

>>4094759
>>4094846
Plasmas are trash for games overall. Terrible lag. The blur is still there like on a LCD.

LCDs took over because they're better displays. They have superior contrast to CRTs and have no geometry issues. Plasmas have burn in issues on all but the best sets that came out in at least the late 2000s but more in the 2010s. This is just repetitive for those that actually know displays... Gets said a lot but the myths of Plasma and especially CRTs still live on.

[Anonymous No.4094849]

>>4094810
Ive been using the SD 19" lcd from my parents RV, its 4:3 and only has a analog tuner. kek. blacks are shitty but its ok for my needs.

[Anonymous No.4094858]

>>4094847
>>Plasmas are trash for games overall. Terrible lag.
Generally better than LCD, but I still wouldn't use either for gaming because I'm not fucking retarded.

>They have superior contrast to CRTs and have no geometry issues
Your first point is just straight up wrong, and the second one is a 20 minute job every decade.

>Plasmas have burn in issues on all but the best sets that came out in at least the late 2000s but more in the 2010s.
Sure, but nobody is suggesting you go out and buy a 90s set. Burn in issues on end of production plasma are practically non-existent.

[Anonymous No.4094861]

>>4094858
>Generally better than LCD, but I still wouldn't use either for gaming because I'm not fucking retarded.
You have LCDs today with less lag than some CRTs lol. That is actual objective fact.
>Your first point is just straight up wrong
Sorry no. And I'll back up anything I have to say unlike you retards. And that's what you are retard parrotors.

Some people like the CRT glow and that's fine. Don't go saying they had good contrast or using static contrast numbers.
>Sure, but nobody is suggesting you go out and buy a 90s set. Burn in issues on end of production plasma are practically non-existent.
I was talking about why no one ever really bought them compared to LCD. Just because it's a late model Plasma doesn't mean it's free from burn in.

[Anonymous No.4094905]

>>4094847
>Plasmas are trash for games overall. Terrible lag. The blur is still there like on a LCD.
My Pioneer PDP-428xd has none of the imaginary issues you're parroting buddy.
>LCDs took over because they're better displays. They have superior contrast to CRTs and have no geometry issues.
No, they took over because they're cheaper to manufacture and transport. Inb4 you trot out that shitty ANSI checkerboard bullshit.
>Plasmas have burn in issues on all but the best sets that came out in at least the late 2000s but more in the 2010s.
Not true unless you count airports' arrival/departure displays and screens in sports bars. At worst any plasma worth considering in any way will have a few seconds of faint image retention, not really any worse than that of a CRT.
>This is just repetitive for those that actually know displays... Gets said a lot but the myths of Plasma and especially CRTs still live on.
You're the only one parroting myths here.

[Anonymous No.4094907]

>>4094861
>>You have LCDs today with less lag than some CRTs lol. That is actual objective fact.
Some HD CRTs with built in image processing from a decade ago, sure. The idea that an LCD could ever be on par with an analog signal is laughable.

>And I'll back up anything I have to say unlike you retards
Sweet, an arbitrary definition of contrast that completely ignores the differences in black levels, using the most poorly suited candidate with the thickest tube on the market, and it's an aperture grille.

Honestly, could you find a more biased study?

[Anonymous No.4094915]

>>4094905
I can't help 3rd worlderss that deny to acknowledged American standards. 100% claims 0% evidence in your post.
>>4094907
>Some HD CRTs with built in image processing from a decade ago, sure. The idea that an LCD could ever be on par with an analog signal is laughable.
You're ignorant to modern tech. This isn't new. Leo Bodnar tests have shown a lot of very fast LCDs that are faster than a lot of CRTs.
https://displaylag.com/display-database/
>an arbitrary definition of contrast
ANSI checkerboard is literately (literately) the opposite of arbitrary.
ANSI checkerboard is literately (literately) the opposite biased
ANSI checkerboard patterns are used by all modern reviews that what objective unbiased reviews.

[Anonymous No.4094942]

>>4094915
>You're ignorant to modern tech. This isn't new. Leo Bodnar tests have shown a lot of very fast LCDs that are faster than a lot of CRTs.
I'd love for you to point me in the direction of these CRT latency tests.

The lowest the displays on that site seem to go is 9ms. Barring late era CRTs with image processing like framerate doubling, your typical consumer latency is around a maximum of 300µs, which is just the time it takes to draw a few lines into the overscan.

>ANSI checkerboard is literately (literately) the opposite of arbitrary.
It's completely arbitrary. Those test numbers have no real world significance, and the test parameters overly favor LCDs. Christ, they say themselves that a 9 fold reduction was "barely noticeable". When you throw veiling glare into the mix, it's a wonder they even bothered running the test, you could throw numbers at a wall and be closer to the real figures. It's a deeply flawed measuring system that doesn't factor into any real world use scenario.

[Anonymous No.4094954]

>>4094942
As I said you're extremely ignorant. The tests are based on how fast a display can update a 60hz video. This is taken from 3 points and averaged. The fastest you're going to get is just under 9ms. No faster than 8ms. These LCDs with 9ms are as fast as CRTs and in fact faster than many CRTs.
>It's completely arbitrary
Be sure to write every modern reviewer that their testing methodology is arbitrary.
>Those test numbers have no real world significance, and the test parameters overly favor LCDs. Christ, they say themselves that a 9 fold reduction was "barely noticeable".
Factually false and you're lying out your ass. Higher contrast greatly helps with text.

[Anonymous No.4094973]

>>4094954
>>As I said you're extremely ignorant. The tests are based on how fast a display can update a 60hz video. This is taken from 3 points and averaged. The fastest you're going to get is just under 9ms. No faster than 8ms. These LCDs with 9ms are as fast as CRTs and in fact faster than many CRTs.
In what world is 9ms faster than 300µs? On professional gear or VGA displays, we're looking at about 10µs, by the way.

>Factually false and you're lying out your ass. Higher contrast greatly helps with text.
Then come back when they performed the test with a display designed for text. Shadow mask VGA, buddy.

[Anonymous No.4094980]

>>4094973
>In what world is 9ms faster than 300µs? On professional gear or VGA displays, we're looking at about 10µs, by the way.
In reality. You're extremely ignorant and throwing numbers out that you don't understand. Do provide a source though.
>Then come back when they performed the test with a display designed for text. Shadow mask VGA, buddy.
They tested arguably the best CRT ever made and when it was new. Sorry it wasn't up to your spec.

[Anonymous No.4094991]

>>4094980
>>In reality. You're extremely ignorant and throwing numbers out that you don't understand. Do provide a source though.
https://smashboards.com/threads/work-in-progress-perfect-setups-tv-monitor-console-capture-device.355292/page-7#post-21307864
Here you go, it was my low effort search attempt.

>They tested arguably the best CRT ever made and when it was new.
No, they tested a very good professional BROADCAST tier display, and then said that you couldn't see text that well on it. If we're talking best CRT ever, that'd be an gdm-fw900 or similar meme display.

[Anonymous No.4095017]

>>4094991
>https://smashboards.com
Legit source, kid. This is measuring the video signal.

So to be clear here kid. Your opinion is a fw900 is a better CRT than the 20l5?

Well thanks for confirming to us you're a underage retard and parrot melee garbage.I'll stick to actual standards.

[Anonymous No.4095073]

>>4094915
>I can't help 3rd worlderss that deny to acknowledged American standards. 100% claims 0% evidence in your post.
Okay, try this retarded "standard" test on a glossy LCD and see how superior they are then...

Also, I find it amusingly ironic how you appear to claim the intellectual and economic high ground yet your spelling and grammar suggest an educationally bereft upbringing. Is this how your imaginary "1st World" expects to attain world domination? By breeding vocal trolls to laugh at?

[Anonymous No.4095076]

>>4095073
It's 4chan kid. Add the captcha wall and grammar matters little. Nice attempt at cherry picking btw.

[Anonymous No.4095078]

>>4090402
>""""""""""""""portable"""""""""""""
Sigh, I'm no purist but fuuuuuuck why do they think its cleaver to use the console as the handheld? That shit is stupid

[Anonymous No.4095085]

>>4095076
>Add the captcha wall and grammar matters little
What the hell does that mean? Nice attempt at misdirection by the way, have you ANSI checkerboarded a glossy LCD yet?

[Anonymous No.4095094]

>>4095085
>What the hell does that mean?
?
>have you ANSI checkerboarded a glossy LCD yet?
Yes there are a lot of tests if that's what you want. Go google it.

[Anonymous No.4095096]

>4095094
>answers a question regarding his cryptic statement with "?"
>fails to shoulder any burden of proof to back up his ridiculous claims.

Yeah, I've come across this one before.

[Anonymous No.4095105]

>>4095096
Sorry I'm not google for a LCD test for you kid. It has nothing to do with my statements. Maybe try reddit?
>cryptic
Oh deer. You're unaware of a time when 4chan didn't have a captcha wall. That's why you're confused,

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4095121]

>>4094741
And where exactly are you going to connect this logic analyzer? At the yolk of the CRT? What is your method to determine that it has received the specific signal that equates to the specific input you are attempting to measure the lag of? How do you intend to make this device easily portable from display to display? There's already a simple device for very accurately recording visible data like the light produced by a display. It's called a fucking camera but feel free to build this device you're talking about and revolutionize lag measurement. Can't wait to read all about it.

[Anonymous No.4095128]

Smells like trollfest in here

[Anonymous No.4096074]

ITT: elitists justifying why they need as less input as the FGC to play super fucking mario and RPGs, while autists hook up 30 year old consoles to LCDs and take pictures of end game screens

[Anonymous No.4096128]

I push a button, Mario jumps instantly on my LCD screen, all you niggas are acting like Neo in the Matrix with bullet time.

[Anonymous No.4096229]

>>4095121
I'd put the logic analyzer on the controller button and the bus. Input lag is the difference between the two.
There's no CRT involved in measuring a consoles input lag. Are you seriously suggesting I need to measure the lag of my CRT? Are you seriously aware the test you're touting didn't use a CRT?
It seems like this is another example of you doing a quick google search and becoming an instant guru on the subject without understanding or even really reading what you found. Your hero didn't revolutionize lag measurement. He took a method that has been around for years for measuring start up time for moves in fighting games and misapplied it to "prove" his emufag hypothesis
FYI, you can measure CRT output down the an individual pixel with a photosensor. That's how light pens work. Very portable and doesn't require you to theorize about CRT parts you also don't understand.

[Anonymous No.4096238]

>>4093526
um get a playstation core?

[Anonymous No.4096356]

>>4090396
get a pvm you newfag

[Anonymous No.4096482]

In a CRT, the image does not "scan", there are no cells in the glass screen , only a layer of phosphor. If you have a CRT with a max resolution of 1280 x 1024, that means that every display configuration from 1x1 to 1280 x 1024 is native. Not scaled to 1280x1024, Native.

[Anonymous No.4096487]

>>4094810
that looks pretty good but how's the lag?

[Anonymous No.4096527]

>>4090396
>run adapters for my controllers
>each one introduces -some- input lag
>literally unnoticable.

Seriously, anything posted in terms of
>input lag
>disc rot
>RGB/Component/Scart output for SD consoles
Should be blatantly considered shitposting.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4096545]

>>4096229
>didn't use a crt
Might want to re-read the study but like I said, I look forward to your improved lag test. Until then, we'll just have to continue limping along blindly with 4.167ms precision cameras I guess.

[Anonymous No.4096816]

I play some games from the crt era competitively, and it's crazy to me that people argue the lag isn't a problem. If you ever played a game on one for an extended amount of time and then switched to the other you'd feel it. You can play any game on an lcd, but the truth is that the lag is going to make things harder to react to.

[Anonymous No.4096940]

This thing looks promising. has SCART too.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4097075]

>>4096940
I have a very similar 640x480 lcd with component ins I bought like 2 years ago but I haven't even messed with it still.

[Anonymous No.4097101]

>>4096545
>Might want to re-read
Please do. It's impossible to have a productive discussion about a "study" with someone who hasn't actually read it.

[Anonymous No.4097115]

>>4096527
>RGB/Component/Scart output for SD consoles
>Should be blatantly considered shitposting.
Summerican, noun: A child of US extraction who posts really stupid shit during the summer.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4097131]

>>4097101
Okay! Hey, let's all re-read the study on the comparative lag of Retroarch on a Z24i lcd vs SNES on a TX-28LD2E crt and see if it uses a crt or not.
>>4092003
>https://forums.libretro.com/t/an-input-lag-investigation/4407/424

inb4 some bullshit about pal crts not being crts

[Anonymous No.4097136]

>>4097131
You do know you're arguing with children that linked to a smashboard as an objective sorce right?

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4097174]

>>4097136
I just think it's a key point for /vr/ to be aware that on a typical modern computer and low latency gaming monitor, modern emulators can achieve very nearly as low input lag as real consoles on crts.

Although I personally own PVMs and prefer to play on CRTs for subjective aesthetic reasons when practical there's no reason to be pretentious about it and act like it necessarily gives me any specific advantage.

In fact, the way I usually play is by emulating on a Wii (which I'm sure causes some slight delay in and of itself) in 480i looping through my 14" pvm into my 60" plasma. I use the sound from and mainly look at the PVM but if I'm playing with other people they usually choose to sit back and play with wireless controllers even if I explain to them the disadvantage of doing so. Go figure.

- and even I personally am just using the Wii for convenience since I own most of the actual consoles and games we play. The entire debate is and should be mostly academic.

[Anonymous No.4097205]

>>4097174
It doesn't matter though. Hipsters and children will parrot the bullshit about CRTs probably forever.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4097210]

>>4097205
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmqc9Bn0v6g

[Anonymous No.4097217]

>>4092672
There is no difference in the "timing" on the virtual console version

Plus how the fuck do you know he wasn't running it on FCEUGX?

[Anonymous No.4097221]

>>4097205
He prefers the arcade cabinets that have had their crts replaced with lcd.
If you want to know why people like crts, go into an arcade. A good crt in a cabinet looks way way better than the lcd replacements.

[Anonymous No.4097234]

>>4097221
I'm not underage. An arcade cab is something that's easy to tell if it's a LCD since your face is right near the screen. Different experience to a TV or monitor. The main reason people like CRTs is because they're poor and or dumb. That's the real truth to it. If it wasn't then Sony would still be leading TV sales and probably still have a line of CRT TVs.

[Anonymous No.4097315]

>>4091981
>>4092003

No it is the display frames

In the first article before he tested it himself, he referenced another guy's test where SMW was ~3 frames, and that guy used a 60fps camera

Also think about it. If it meant 3.6/240fps, that means the emulator was 4.6/240fps. It's a myth the SNES has no input lag but saying emulators don't either is ridiculous.

Also 3.6/240fps is .75/50fps. How did he measure that something changed 3/4 into the first frame? There's obviously nothing to see until a frame is drawn.

Part of the reason is SNES games don't poll input every frame.

[Anonymous No.4097331]

>>4094759
>I can understand the size and weight issues from a manufacturers point of view

How about just having one in your house that's big enough to view from a couch. It's huge and its heavy.

But yeah RIP plasma. You will be missed

[Anonymous No.4097356]

>>4097315
And finally you can't see a change at .6 of a camera frame.

[Anonymous No.4097357]

>>4097217

OP here, I used fceugx

[Anonymous No.4097391]

>>4090402
That's a fucking abomination.

[Anonymous No.4097417]

>>4097331
>huge
Earlier in that sentence you said that was what you wanted...
>Heavy
So what? It's not a portable, anon.

They also often use less power than LCDs under typical viewing conditions so there's that too.

[Anonymous No.4097452]

>>4097234
Wrong retard, we use crts for many reasons. Hook an NES up to an LCD and it looks crap compared to crt, lightgun games don't work on LCD. My current gen consoles are hooked up to HD LCDs but retro consoles never.

[Anonymous No.4097454]

>>4097452
Sorry you're an incompetent child and can't handle hooking a NES up to a modern tv.

[Anonymous No.4097463]

>>4097454
I promise you an nes hooked up to an lcd is gonna have some lag my man. It might not be lag that you personally notice, but I don't understand why you are calling someone a child for prioritizing the advantages of crt's over playing on lcds. This isn't /v/ for fucks sake, try to have a discussion without personal attacks.

[Anonymous No.4097464]

>>4097463
>my man
>This isn't /v/ for fucks sake
The irony.

[Anonymous No.4097467]

>>4097454
Wrong fuckwit, both cases same NES connected via scart, difference is easily noticable. You really do wear your extra copy of chromosome 21 on your sleeve don't you? Ummm maybe he connected that one cable wrong? Ummm mongo thinks that would be something people do.

[Anonymous No.4097473]

>>4097467
>scart
I don't deal with 3rd world shit.

[Anonymous No.4097479]

>>4097473
You don't seem to be able to deal with reality either.

[Anonymous No.4097483]

>>4097479
I admit I'm ignorant to life in 3rd world.

[Anonymous No.4097486]

>>4097483
And anything to do with televisions.

[Anonymous No.4097492]

>>4097486
You'r wrong there, Muhammad.

[Anonymous No.4097502]

>>4097492
No, I've read you're moronic posts and it's obvious to to me and all on this thread that you have no idea how your mommies magic picture box works. Run along back to mommas tit boy.

[Anonymous No.4097504]

>>4097502
Means a lot coming from the guy that can't figure out how to connect his NES to a modern TV and lives in a ghetto.

[Anonymous No.4097508]

>>4097504
Connected perfectly child, connected to a crt for the best possible experience. You need to run along now.

[Anonymous No.4097517]

>>4097508
50 hz? Best? Don't think so.

[Anonymous No.4097520]

let me fucking post already goddammit

[Anonymous No.4097530]

>>4097517
NTSC NES & TV handles 60hz just fine. Go back to arguing about your mommies magic no lag tv with someone else. I've no more time for you.

[Anonymous No.4097541]

>>4097530
Don't back peddle now. You brought up scart.

[Anonymous No.4097658]

>>4094915
>09ms is the lowest

GOOD LORD! I will not be playing on LCD's anytime soon.

[Anonymous No.4098058]

>>4097417
>Earlier in that sentence you said that was what you wanted...

Oh I'm not that anon. I'm just pointing out it wasn't just people who shipped and stored CRTs that hated the size and weight

>So what? It's not a portable, anon.
It's so what until you have to move one thats 32" or above. Also people rearrange furniture and transfer TVs to other rooms in real life.

>They also often use less power than LCDs under typical viewing conditions so there's that too.

cool

[Anonymous No.4098276]

>>4090419
I wouldn't agree with that, because smart TVs seem to have much more input lag. However, if your TV has a game mode you should be just fine.

[Anonymous No.4098316]

>>4097131
>HP Z24i IPS LCD monitor
Keep on believing

[Anonymous No.4098341]

sometimes the simpler cheap lcds have less lag

[Anonymous No.4098351]

I grew up with crt tvs. I still think LCDs started off quite shittily, but have now surpassed CRTs. Every CRT has geometry issues, I can't believe that was acceptable. It's puke inducing when playing sidescrollers and distorts any large sprites and straight lines. Theres only so much you can do through adjusting it and playing with the service menu, especially when this should have been tuned problem to begin with

[Anonymous No.4098378]

This is essentially what you have when you can connect your Wii to a modern LCD tv instead of playing a crt in a Cuckshed.

[Anonymous No.4098685]

>>4097131
OK, I screwed the pooch on that one. Honestly if that's the only flaw you can find in my argument I'm good.

[Anonymous No.4098741]

>>4097658
You do realize that 9ms is faster than a single frame at 60fps, right?

That said, an LCD will only ever get a delay that fast if you're feeding it an image at native resolution.

[Anonymous No.4098753]

>>4098378
Is there really no framemeister or whatever those things are called, somewhere in that pic? Though the gears of war box and multiple same systems makes me think its some mainstream 'gamer' type dudes

[Anonymous No.4098794]

>>4091672
>It only took them how many years?

lcds were fine in terms of input lag around 2003-2004, as long as you were buying good products

[Anonymous No.4098820]

>>4092160
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzIPGpKo3Ag

[Anonymous No.4099082]

>>4098741

The problem is that input lag is cumulative. Add your controller, upscaler, and the game in question and shit adds up. Also don't these test only test the middle of the screen/averages top middle bottom? There can be quite a difference from the top to bottom from what i've noticed on lcds.

[Anonymous No.4099097]

>>4091601
Not him but it doesn't matter or affect my enjoyment. I believe that's OP's whole point>>4091601

[Anonymous No.4099291]

>>4098741
you're kidding right? my CRT test at 3ms and monitor at practically 0ms.

[Anonymous No.4099306]

>>4098741
You're arguing with children that link to a smashboard as an objective source.
>>4099082
>>4099291
Are clueless children.

[Anonymous No.4099962]

>>4099306

Clueless neet. Kys

[Anonymous No.4099971]

>>4099962
Don't think you understand that word.

[Anonymous No.4100249]

[Anonymous No.4101507]

>>4096487

I haven't tested it, but not perceptible. Less than an HDCRT for sure, since there is zero scaling going on. Only complaint is that there is a bit of motion blur, probably because it's incorrectly assuming that a 240p signal is 480i; it isn't present at all when the Wii is hooked up and running 480p.

[Anonymous No.4101902]

>>4099971

You don't think

[Anonymous No.4102565]

I find that the only people who are still using CRTS are either hipsters or people who cant let go of their past because they are unhappy with how their lives are now. When emulators became widely available in the late 90's I remember ditching my old consoles. It was nice to play games with sharp pixels and perfect picture. I didnt miss having a sketchy picture caused by RF or composite artifcats at all

[Anonymous No.4102598]

Daily reminder input lag differs not just by the TV, but also by the input resolution and input method.

Composite 480i may lag much more than HDMI 1080p on the same tv.
So check yourself before you shrek yourself.

[Anonymous No.4102609]

>>4102565
>I find that the only people who are still using CRTS are either hipsters or people who cant let go of their past because they are unhappy with how their lives are now
My life now affords me enough money and spare time that I can devote portions of each to finding, repairing if needed, and enjoying CRTs more than I ever did as an adolescent. I'm pretty happy so guess that makes me a hipster *adjusts Ray-Ban specs*

>I didnt miss having a sketchy picture caused by RF or composite artifcats at all
Neither did I when I moved to RGB on original hardware in the mid-90s

[Anonymous No.4102786]

Sony Wega 32 inch, loving it.

[Anonymous No.4102801]

>>4102786
DUDE

[Anonymous No.4102839]

>>4102801
?

[Anonymous No.4102858]

>>4102565
Poor person the post. Emotionally and financially. We can all tell.

[Anonymous No.4102861]

>>4098276
>>4098276
Smart tvs are the thing that put Sony 1080p tvs into gaming monitor levels of delay. Not joking. Their 2010-2011 and onward smart tvs featured about as low as you can go for specifically 1080p models.

Samsung picked up the UHD crown though, with their 2014 and onward 2160p delay being under 20ms across their high end line. If you think you notice the delay with game mode on, you probably also claim there are no gaming monitors without noticeable delay as well.

[Anonymous No.4102912]

>>4102861
That's when you feed it a 1080p signal though, right?
Or is the upscaler inside the TV also that fast?

[Anonymous No.4103258]

>had widescreen CRT with HDMI
>learn through observation that it has more input lag than other CRTs
>disgust.jpg

[Anonymous No.4103298]

>>4102858

>> Thinks owning a CRT is a sign of wealth

You know, people literally leave these things on curbs so that someone will just take them away

[Anonymous No.4103302]

>>4102609

>> Moved to rgb in the mid nineties

No one cares about europoor tv's

[Anonymous No.4103307]

>>4103298
A poor person is 900% more likely to finance a 60" HDTV than pick one up though.

[Anonymous No.4103315]

>>4103302
You care about RGB though, and we had it. All the way back to 1977.

Multisystem compatibility throughout the 90s too for MUH 60 HURTZ.

[Anonymous No.4103316]

>>4103307

Is that how you got into HD?

[Anonymous No.4103320]

>>4103315

LOL, Its great that you had 60Hz compatability...too bad your consoles were all 50hz, along with all games.

[Anonymous No.4103332]

The real problem is composite on a LCD. Analog to HD conversion + upscaling can add some latency.

Apparently component is different though I dont see how unless a digital signla is being fed via the wii.

Either way theres a reason everyone says lcd on 6th gen + is acceptable while gen 5 and below is unacceptable.

Try playing n64 on a lcd, its shit and you notice the delay.

[Anonymous No.4103336]

>>4103332

This. This completely. An LCD is a legit way to play retro via wii

[Anonymous No.4103351]

>>4103316
Well, my Pioneer Kuro was bought second hand for £80 so no.

I don't care to financially compromise myself for technology's sake. I buy smart and save my money for more important things than entertainment.

[Anonymous No.4103354]

>>4103351

Then hopefully for logics sake you're not the same guy who considered my ownership of an LCD tv poorfagging

[Anonymous No.4103361]

>>4103320
>what is region modding and buying imports where necessary.
I still have the multiregion Mega Drive I persuaded my parents to buy from Telegames back in '91.

[Anonymous No.4103368]

>>4103354
No, I am not.

Just pointing out that poor people tend not to dumpster-dive (or equivalent). This is, in many instances, a significant factor in why they are poor...

[Anonymous No.4103375]

>>4090396
you can argue as much as you want, retro games look best on CRTs. CRTs give surface structure to the picture and it pushes 2D graphics very much. Modern flatsceens just make them look bland, old and bad.

[Anonymous No.4103424]

>>4103361

You would region mod your consoles and then import all games....that sounds both shitty and like pure lies. Also, just emulating on a crt monitor would give better results.

[Anonymous No.4103426]

>>4103375

>> Confuses own opinion with objective facts

Ok.

[Anonymous No.4103435]

>>4103424
You see the thing about the early days of the Mega Drive was that there were many companies selling pre-modded consoles before it was officially released over here. Telegames was the biggest in the UK but it was far from rare to do this.

Also, MD games are mostly region-universal and rely on the console to tell them which localisation to display...so we didn't really need to import many cartridges back then. Only later when region protection began to trickle into the lineup.

Any more lies you'd like to accuse me of you infantile shitstain?

[Anonymous No.4103457]

>>4103435

Lies to accuse you of? I'd like to use the word expose instead of accuse. Quit pretending you grew up with ntsc games and admit that you were PAL gagging in your childhood

[Anonymous No.4103460]

>>4103457
You're beginning to sound mighty jelly (or should that be Jello?) there, Chet.

Who am I to get in the way of your noble quest to uphold truth, justice and The American Way. Knock yourself out buddy :)

[Anonymous No.4103481]

>>4103460

You're the one who miss your PAL shit for NTSC. You're projecting your jealousy

[Anonymous No.4103491]

>>4103481
We're done here.

Keep baiting if you like but I'm off to play some games. Adieu.

[Anonymous No.4103647]

>>4103315
>i was born in 1997
FTFYK

[Anonymous No.4104380]

The first sharp LCD's are amazing. 480p, and all the inputs you could want, Euro ones even do RGB scart.

Better than a cheaper CRT since it doesnt take up a lot of space.

[Anonymous No.4104381]

>>4104380
pretty sure they used these in GC and WII kiosks.

[Anonymous No.4104470]

>>4104380
I used to sell those back when they were new.

Absolutely disgusting.

[Anonymous No.4104476]

>>4103647
I was driving Alfa Romeos and legally buying alcohol in 1997. Cry me a river, youngling.

Hey guys, what are your all-time favourite CRT and Flat Panel? Mine are the Sony KX-27PS1 Profeel and Pioneer PDP-508XD.

[Anonymous No.4104570]

>>4104476

That's a fucked up childhood. Which third world country lets a child legally buy alcohol and drive? Are you from Liberia?

[Anonymous No.4105026]

Pic related plus a decent computer. You're all welcome

[Anonymous No.4105123]

>>4090402

I wonder if that LCD has much lag