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/vr/ - Retro Games


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4010941 No.4010941 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Im sorry but this game just isnt that good

>> No.4010963

>>4010941
Right? Super Mario Galaxy is so much better. They should have made the camera more like the one in Super Mario Galaxy.
Also the graphics are so bad! IT should look more like GTAV! And you should be able to shoot hookers.
I can't believe Nintendo made this gay kiddy game instead of a badass awesome game.
Also, why doesn't it have motion controls? Nintendo really dropped the ball.

>> No.4010964

>>4010963
SMG is so much better though

>> No.4010965

Shut up.

>> No.4011040

>>4010941
You gonna say way anon? It would probably help your b8 thread

>> No.4011076

>DID YOU KNOW!?!
Super Mario 2 (the real, American one) has always been my favorite.

>> No.4011081

>>4010941
Reminder: if you are generation z you are too young to post here.

>> No.4011665

>>4010964
>SMG is so much better though
SMG is worth playing through once. Every consecutive playthrough is boring as fuck because there's 0 versatility or freedom in gameplay and the movement mechanics are just stiff, slow an d terrible.

I've played through SM64 at least 50+ times now and there are always new ways to have fun.

>> No.4011668
File: 1.51 MB, 480x360, shockinglifts.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4011668

>>4011665
word.

sm64 is for people who like tight, varied movement mechanics with a great sense of weight and momentum and jungle gym courses for you to play around in endlessly.

smg is for people who like being dazzled by bullshit.

>> No.4011671

>>4011668
Except the jungle gyms are boring as fuck

>> No.4011685
File: 912 KB, 480x360, thi reds.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4011685

>>4011671
They're only as boring as you are, my man.

>> No.4011693

>>4010941
You SHOULD be sorry, retroactively altering the overall perception, popularity and significance of the game like that with your opinion. Be mindful of the consequences of such an statement, you magnificent maverick beast!

>> No.4011705 [DELETED] 

>>4010941
In the early days of 3d, Nintendo experimented with making the type of game that smart people would enjoy.

It wasn't until Galaxy and the Wii that Nintendo ultimately realized that all the money is in making products for stupid people.

>> No.4011710

>>4010941
In the early days of 3d, Nintendo experimented with making the type of game that smart/creative people would enjoy.

It wasn't until Galaxy and the Wii that Nintendo ultimately realized that all the money is in making products for somewhat dim and less creative people who don't know how to have fun without being explicitly told what to do.

>> No.4011715

i think a lot N64 gameplay was designed around the controller, it's been like that long before wii

>> No.4011719

Must feel lonely having such unpopular opinion, but don't be sorry OP. Freedom of speech, etc, etc.

>> No.4011723

>>4011715
Game design always have to adapt and build on and around hardware design.

necessities of the potential gameplay types -> hardware design -> actual specific gameplay design

They knew they were going for 3D games (so they added the C-buttons for camera control) but they didn't want to remove the d-pad; they thought it would make more sense, in terms of ergonomy, to make a 2-in-1 controller -in which you could switch your grip- instead of just making you twist and alter the angle of your thumb as the Dual-Shock would do.

The reasoning isn't flawed in theory, but they didn't really plan for games in which you would use both directional controllers. The Dual Shock standard is a compromise, and therefore much more versatile.

>> No.4011726

>>4011719
His vast intelligence and unbridled insight probably provides solace tho

>> No.4011753

Im sorry but this thread just isnt that good

>> No.4011763

I'm sorry OP but you're just not that good

>> No.4011767

>>4010941
that's okay I forgive you

>> No.4011792

>>4010963
/thread

>> No.4011793

>>4011668
>video
TAS as fuck

>> No.4011806

>>4011793
that's not a TAS, it's real time gameplay.

here's the TAS strat: https://youtu.be/xL6VE_5PddM?t=1h8m38s

>> No.4011807

>>4010941
Please List some 3d platform game you think better then...
I want to try.

>> No.4011820

>>4011806
Why the fuck do TAS encoders have to use that horrible texture filter? Do they think it makes the game look more Hi Def?

>> No.4011827

>>4010941
well duh, it's a collectathon, of course it sucks

>> No.4011834

>>4011726
At least a quantum thereof.

>> No.4011868

>>4010941
Yep. Agree with you 100%. The game is just worshipped by normies. That's the only reason people think it's good.

>> No.4011873

>>4011868

Lol ok

>> No.4011890

>>4011868
>normies
Begone normalfag.

>> No.4011917

>>4011710
Pretty much on point.

>> No.4011921

>>4010941
But its the best game one the n64.

>> No.4011923

sometimes jumping is fun when you get a good rhythm going but i much prefer eating boiled eggs with a glass of wine!

>> No.4012083

>>4011868.
>everyone thinks it is good because everyone thinks it is good.

Your argument is faulty. Sure, games can be overrated, but SM64 was astounding when it came out, and it has aged very well. It was and is a very good game. I dare you to name better 3D platform games from 1996.

>> No.4012091

>>4012083
>I dare you to name better 3D platform games from 1996.
There are no better 3d platform games from any year. They got it right with SM64 and have only downgraded since then.

>> No.4012132
File: 74 KB, 563x157, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4012132

Im sorry but this post just isnt good

>> No.4012137

>>4010941
Old day everyone think 3D graphic is not for platfrom game.
It hard to look to forcus to caculat to control.
Every 3d game use tank control until today FPS TPS still use tank control.

Nintendo find way to play platfrom and last they make this game.
freerun analog stick + auto camera are best way to play 3d platfrom. If you don't like this meybe you don't like platfrom game.

>> No.4012146

>>4012137
is you of not talk english?

>> No.4012163

>>4010963
This.

>> No.4012168

>>4011668
Jeez, that was like 6 A presses at least.

>> No.4013357

>>4010941
delete this

>> No.4013383

It's fine.

But I do feel like people act like it's controls are more flawless than it is. Like if you step too close to an edge in the wrong way you lose control of Mario while he starts continuously tap dancing along this edge until he falls, or if you walk over a small rock the wrong way Mario will throw himself down and start sliding.

>> No.4013591

>>4013383
>Like if you step too close to an edge in the wrong way you lose control of Mario while he starts continuously tap dancing along this edge until he falls, or if you walk over a small rock the wrong way Mario will throw himself down and start sliding.
The physics and movement are 100% consistent. Anything bad that happens is 100% your own fault for being shit.

>> No.4013648

>>4010941
Alright, it's a good game, but since I got it in like 1999, I couldn't quite master the controls, like ever. I understand it was experimental; but for fuck's sake, Mario always seemed to be walking on ice to me.

>> No.4013670

>>4010941
i completely agree op

>> No.4013719

>>4011665
yeah my favorite part about super Mario bros 3 is how nonlinear it is.

>> No.4013725

>>4010941
It's a good tech demo for the N64 but the level design is absolute donkey doodoo

>> No.4013949

>>4013648
That's because you're terrible at video games. The controls are fantastic.

>> No.4013967

You're right, it's not very good. It's just another case of a game people claim is a masterpiece because that's what they've been told they need to believe to be accepted. The 3D Mario series gets better every game, the Galaxy games and 3D World are masterpieces, 64 was just a notable step forward.

That's the unfortunate thing about /vr/ that stops it from being an interesting board. Very few people here are actually interested in the games, they're just doping on the hipster culture around loving old things and hating new things blindly.

>> No.4013969

>>4013967

You dont even say why you think the Galaxy games are better. Jeez.

>> No.4013971

>>4013967
>the Galaxy games and 3D World are masterpieces
Holy shit lmao.
>Very few people here are actually interested in the games, they're just doping on the hipster culture around loving old things and hating new things blindly.
There are numerous posts in here discussing pretty specific things about the game. What have you added to the discussion apart from whining about the hipster boogyman?

>> No.4013973

>>4013719
SMB3 is actually fun to play though. The movement is fast paced and has a great sense of weight and momentum, like in SM64.

Galaxy feels like fucking molasses running uphill.

>> No.4016073

>>4011868
>Worshipped by normies

How many normies do you know that worship 20 year old games, and sit around autistically trying to figure out how to beat the game with as few button presses as possible?

Maybe normies liked it when it came out, but being heavily invested in games more than a decade old is strictly NOT normie territory.

>> No.4016076

>>4010941

Yeah it's so not good that hackers reuse the engine and assests to make more of it.

>> No.4016091

It not look like verygood game in now a day
but
We don't have other 3d platfrom in SS PS N64 DC who better then Mario64.

>> No.4016374

>>4010941
M64 is a regression in term of Mario's lore. That why I compare it to SMB1. You know SMB3 & SMW have in common to have a huge map and a lot of enemies, all those things are erased from M64 to make him more basic like was SMB1. Even if I have played a lot to that game that the reason why it cannot be my favorite Mario game.

>> No.4016386
File: 3.36 MB, 300x236, 1495365028066.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4016386

>>4011081
THIS IS A MILLENIAL ONLY TYREAD!!!

>> No.4016396

mario 64 has probably the most satisfying movement controls of any game I can think of

>> No.4016560

>>4010941
Okay TJ "Henry" Yoshi

>> No.4016570

It's not as good as sunshine

>> No.4016590

>>4016570

Other way around.

64's limited soundtrack alone is superior to Sunshine's tunes that can put you to sleep.

>> No.4016607

>>4012146
Engrish from the looks of it

>> No.4016609

>>4016590
I disagree, sunshines movement is superior and the Fludd is really fun to use.

>> No.4016614

>>4013967
i love how contrived and transparent trollposters can be

>> No.4016629

>>4016570
if anything is better about sunshine it's the special stage courses, that's the purest that platform games have ever gotten

>> No.4016659

>>4016609
>Fludd
Gimmicky shit

>> No.4016738

>>4016374
>SMB3 & SMW have in common to have a huge map and a lot of enemies, all those things are erased from M64 to make him more basic like was SMB
Uh, what is Peach's Castle? It's a direct continuation of the world map from SMW.
And the variety in levels with little secret areas within the castle? The desert levels don't remind you of SMB3 World 2? Or Big Boo's Haunt coming from SMW?

>> No.4017349

>>4013719
Mario bros 3 isn't that good either. It was the best for it's time but it's been beat. Only 90s kids who are nostalgic think it's still the great

>> No.4017908

>>4010941
>Im sorry but this game just isnt that good
The only downside to this game is the limited amount of stages (i would have loved for the castle to go just one level higher or even better 2) and the shit camera.

Outside of those this is one of the top 5 games on the console

>> No.4018176
File: 21 KB, 320x400, 1489597234942.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4018176

>>4011868
begone thot

>> No.4019380

>>4013719
very main line Mario Platformer has heavy playground elements
Let's look at a SMB3 level:

http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/SuperMar...os3Map2-3.html

The level in fact looks to be the very linear form of course design that we think of 3d Land having well having nothing in common with 64's course designs, and noted not to empower the player to mess around. But that misses so much. In fact this level is full of places to get expressive.

The course can be divide into three main section, the one-way block pyramids, the two brick block pyramids and the brick block pyramid covering the exit pipe.

The first section is patrolled by fire snakes and Koopa Troopas and three pits separating each the pyramids. The easiest way to handle this section is to run right past it, this section that makes up a good half of the level is almost all about messing about. At the top of each of pyramid are two “?” blocks, but they blocked on the bottom by brick blocks. This means a player that enters the course powered up is rewarded with easy prizes. But the first two set of blocks are arranged to be able to broken with a Koopa Troopa Shells easily. The first and last one-way block pyramids give power up so with good play even if you start the course as regular Mario you can power all the way up to Raccoon Mario. In between the two is a Starman, which could easily tempt a player to grab it and run right past the second Super leaf block losing out on the chance to power up. I could keep going on about this one section, but lets move on.

1/2

>> No.4019382

>>4019380
2/2

The Second section is patrolled by Brick Goombas and some more Koopa Troopas. Once more the easiest way to handle this section is to run right through it, up the first brick block pyramid, across the wooden blocks and down the second brick block pyramid, and again you’d be missing out. The simple fact that they're a bunch of Brick blocks here means a player can just mess around destroying them with a raccoon tail or using the Koopa Troopas here, possible discovering the hidden 1-Up well doing so. Of course the real prize is getting to the hidden platforms in the sky. You can reach them form flying, or by uncovering invisible blocks. If flying your more likely to uncover the higher, more hidden of the platforms which holds a P-switch turns all the brick blocks into coins easily giving you access to the 1-up and tons of coins.

Finally we have the half of a Brick block pyramid blocking a pipe to the exit area. Once more we have a few Koopa Troopas patrolling the area, and this time making use of their shells is mandatory. Well most of this course engaging with way enemies, level element and Mario's actions can all play off one another has been optional now you HAVE to engage with how shells brick blocks and coin blocks interact. It's sort of mandatory playing about to end the course, no real challenge, just a brief bit of watching the game do some pinball with its elements. You do get one final option before the leave though, a 10-coin block rests in the area the Koopa shell will end up bouncing back and forth, giving the option to test your reaction skills to get closer to another life.

Oh boy,I, didn't really cover everything you could say about that course, an early not super special or hard one that you can race through in under 30 seconds. All hiding a mini playground of platforming you can mess around in all sorts of ways other then just moving forward. Lord the level design in SMB3 is great.

>> No.4019924

you insult Mario 64 you insult me

>> No.4019930

>>4016570
sunshine is tied with 64 imo, they both have similar controls, sunshine introduced the water mechanic which was cool, the level deisgns were great for both too, music wise 64 was better.

>> No.4019963

>>4019924

Go cry about it.

>> No.4021128

>>4011668
You need to remember that Galaxy had less variety on movements
and less freedom on controls because of gravity feature. You would broke the game and glitch it if your moves were the same as 64's.

>smg is for people who like being dazzled by bullshit.
Did you know that one of the main complaints Mario keeps receiving is that its last games has become stale and repetitive due to how they didn't had any unique themed worlds or levels (outside of SM3DW)? There are many people who remember fondly Galaxy games (just like me) as much as there are people who remember fondly 64 (just like me), and Nintendo is now trying to target both people with Odyseey.

>> No.4021187

>>4010941
Let me ask this question here because it is mostly about jump n runs:

I need a good plattformer to play through the night. I thought about Spyro 2 but I kinda replayed it and all these talking with the "humans" in the levels were kinda annoying.
I thought about Spyro a new beginning, but Spyro looks like shit there.

What should I play? Mostly about emulation. Games I´ve never played(finished): SM64, Sunshine, Galaxy1/2, Crash 1, Spyro 2(only until endboss as a kid), Spyro 3, ratched and clank series, Jack n Dexter 1 and 2.

Any other ideas? Please help me!

>> No.4021209

>>4010941
It's pretty much just a guide about the possibilities of 3D. The real deal is the Mario physics. This game still kicks the asses of all its sequels.

>>4010963
I know this is sarcasm but it still looks fun as fuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih323XXu_3w

>>4010964
That's what you think at first, then you replay SMG and it all falls apart.

>>4011665
100% this.

>> No.4021219

>>4021187
Play with my dik :^)

>> No.4021257

>>4021219
sure anon, but don´t cry if I break it.

>> No.4021265

>>4021187
Spyro 1 is by far better than Spyro 2 and 3.

>> No.4021310

>>4021265
Amen to that.

>> No.4021360

>>4010941
My only issue with SM64 is that I don't like the stages.
The graphics are okay, controls are decent, camera suffers from far fewer early-3d camera problems compared to games that came out a little bit after.

>> No.4021408

>>4021360
Some of the stages suck, but Whomps Fortress, Cool Cool Mountain, Tall Tall Mountain, Bob-Omb Battlefield, Tick Tock Clock, and the bowser stages are fucking awesome.

>> No.4021716

>>4010963
The way you wording is done make it look like you're setting bait, especially when you're bringing something that has none relation with OP's post.

>>4011665
Galaxy may have worse controls and movement, but they are still not bad. Their controls don't make you think it's atleast unplayable. The spin attack is useful for some things besides attacking, like clearing higher not intended walls when you walljump, or how you want to homing attack some enemy with ground attack, or how it gives you a slighty but enough height airbone to travel between little and nearby planets.

>> No.4021771

>>4021716

The problem with Galaxy goes much further though

The focus of the game wasn't movement in 3D world like with SM64, it was the worlds themselves that took center stage serving as mini puzzles. Also the fucking fuckawfully gimmicky motion controls which impeded platforming and the terrible planetoids that threw any sense of direction or consistent physics out the window... in a platforming game.

How people enjoyed that exercise in frustration is beyond me. SM64 camera got a lot of bitching but everyone was silent when in Galaxy you were disoriented 99% of the time

>> No.4021857

>>4011668
>>4011685
This doesn't look fun to me at all. You'd have to have to spend a LOT of time and practice in these areas do these such incredibly tight, challenging speedrun strats. I'd rather spend that time playing through a variety of different unique levels with clever designs that don't require me to spend 100 hours of practice in that level before it becomes fun.

If you just play SM64 casually, it is only fun for the first playthrough, same as all the other Mario games. SMB3 was fun because it had a huge amount of unique, cleverly designed levels. Not because it had a handful of levels with a variety of different ways you could complete them.

>> No.4021867

>>4021857
>You'd have to have to spend a LOT of time and practice in these areas do these such incredibly tight, challenging speedrun strats.
Not really. You need a lot of practice to have really optimal speedrunner movement, but it's pretty easy to just learn the basic tricks.

>> No.4021874

>>4021771
I think of the camera in SMG as part of the intended challenge of the game. I don't think it's a flaw, because you can always see everything that is relevant to what you need to do, you just have to deal with the challenge of orienting yourself to the gravity. It's a fun, unique take on 3d platforming.

You're right about the waggle gimmick though, that shit was unnecessary and awkward, just pressing a button to spin would've been way better.

>> No.4021880

>>4021857
>If you just play SM64 casually, it is only fun for the first playthrough, same as all the other Mario games.
speak for yourself, faggot

>> No.4021889

>>4021867

You need to not only know the basic tricks, but you also need to have memorized the exact layout of the platforms to do certain blind jumps that weren't intended to be done by the level creator.

I'd rather just play a level where the intended challenge itself is fun and decently challenging, and I don't need to learn the layout and figure out some other unintended strat in order to make the level fun.

>> No.4021939

>>4021889
>You need to not only know the basic tricks, but you also need to have memorized the exact layout of the platforms to do certain blind jumps that weren't intended to be done by the level creator.
Well yeah, by the 2nd or 3rd time you play through it you'll have the levels memorized, and then you can either learn tricks or make up your own. You're exaggerating just about everything about how difficult this is.

>> No.4022037
File: 76 KB, 246x241, really.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4022037

>>4021771
>The focus of the game wasn't movement in 3D world like with SM64, it was the worlds themselves that took center stage serving as mini puzzles.
True, but not all courses took this approach. There still were some which had expanded worlds that allows you to explore, instead being linear. Sea Slide Galaxy, Honeyhive Galaxy, Deep Dive Galaxy, and others. Hell, Galaxy 2 brought back one course from 64, meaning that Nintendo does acknowledge 64. Besides, linear doesn't always means it's bad, especially for a franchise which was always linear.

>the fucking fuckawfully gimmicky motion controls which impeded platforming
You're exaggerating it. The simple small horizontal swing with your Wii Remote is all it takes to execute spin attack. There was no moments of wagglan or something like that, nor does it ruin platforming, especially when the spin attack actually helps it. Actually, no Mario 3D game is free of gimmicks, including 64 and Sunshine.

If you are referring to courses like Loopdeeloop Galaxy where motion controls were mostly depended, then I can see your point, but I still disagree with you, because nobody is stopping you to atleast get a little amount of practice to play it right.

> and the terrible planetoids that threw any sense of direction or consistent physics out the window
We're talking about Mario, not Sonic.

But anyway, it can be noticeable that Mario sometimes will end momentum for some reason when you finish your triple jump or long jump, but it's not entirely vanished. Mario's long jump has some speed when you take it as much as possible airbone, which this is part of gravity, again.

>... in a platforming game.
Again, this is a Mario game, not Sonic. There are still physics being shown in some moments, like when Mario is sliding down a slope and jumps off it on a different angle, or how he can't walk on a upward difficult slide. Actually, Mario being handled by gravity is enough to show to you it has physics going on.

(cont.)

>> No.4022040
File: 130 KB, 282x269, sadmario.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4022040

>>4022037
>How people enjoyed that exercise in frustration is beyond me.
Simple. They have different tastes from yours, duh. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you should take it seriously and let this get on your nerves, which is stupid, by the way. You're in /vr/, not /v/.

>SM64 camera got a lot of bitching
Because IT IS a bitch to control sometimes. There are times when the camera can't cooperate and don't let you change it to a favorable place. It's correct that it was the first time Nintendo was experimenting it, so it's obvious that the camera would be irritating and annoying to use when it stays on a unfavorable spot. This is more noticeable when you can totally use the camera freely, without it moving on his own or in fixed spots, meaning that it's easier to mess up itself. It's also worth to note the camera was being controlled by BUTTONS instead being mapped to another control stick, which causes no way to place the camera on a unique favorite particular spot you want it to be.

>but everyone was silent when in Galaxy you were disoriented 99% of the time
Because it's a different camera from 64. Galaxy let's you only move the camera around on 8 directions and that is it. The camera is mostly fixed on most times, preventing that messes up by itself. No, running through a small planet while the camera doesn't follow you doesn't count as a flaw. This is even discussed on Iwata Asks, where they do know 64 didn't had a good camera.

>> No.4022113

>>4010963
I remember Mario Galaxy not having as many moves as 64 had, I can't even remember anymore but it was something like not having long jump or backflip.

>> No.4022116
File: 236 KB, 1000x562, super-mario-galaxy-2-wallpaper-mario-cloud.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4022116

>>4022113
>but it was something like not having long jump or backflip.
They do have theses moves you mentioned.

>> No.4022119

>>4011820
it does make individual objects have more definition though, if you want your game to have scanlines and low res that's fine but for TAS I would figure you want to sharpen everything up just for the sake of capturing data and stuff.

>> No.4022126

>>4022116
maybe Galaxy 2 does, I never played that one though, I just remember the first one not having one of the moves I would use in 64.

>> No.4022142
File: 836 KB, 1920x1080, odyssey_by_vegacolors-davz5gu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4022142

>>4022126
>maybe Galaxy 2 does, I never played that one though,
Both games have backflip and long jump. Galaxy 2 reuses the Galaxy 1's engine.

>I just remember the first one not having one of the moves I would use in 64.
Both games are missing some moves from 64, such as midair dive and slide kick.

>> No.4022147

>>4022142
>no mid-air dive
yeah that would fucking infuriate me, I guess the slide kick doesn't matter much whatever.

>> No.4022149

>>4022142
Does galaxy have the wallkick like 64 had? That move was the best thing they thought of for 64.

>> No.4022160
File: 196 KB, 439x472, 06ec6edf5cc63efb18b844c4f903bea3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4022160

>>4022147
The mid-air dive has been missing on Mario 3D since Sunshine, and only now has been returning to Odyseey. I wonder how did Nintendo mess up that.

>>4022149
Yes, but it's slightly different to handle.
On 64, you had to touch a wall and jump immediately as soon as you touch. You can't slide on the wall.
On Sunshine and onwards, you now touch the wall, let Mario slide through the wall and jump to wallkick. This was changed to make it less complex to use.

>> No.4022173

>>4022160
Somehow I remembered after I sent the message that wallkicks worked like that. I forget they made them way too easy to use. I think 64 was just about right, in that it required a good amount of skill but not so much as to be a burden on the controls/player.

>> No.4022204

>>4022160
you could do it in Sunshine though, you could even put water on the floor and slide around on it from the dive jump

>> No.4022223
File: 163 KB, 694x601, tumblr_ol78c2NLR01rysa7ho1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4022223

>>4022173
IMO, I prefer the new wallkick. I can't wallkick while I'm looking in front of a wall, since I can't see clearly when is Mario going to touch it. With the new one, I don't need to worry about it.
Or maybe it's just me who still hasn't gotten gud, I dunno.

>>4022204
Sorry, I mistyped it. I should have said "since Galaxy".

>> No.4022224

>>4010941
Its the only fun 3D Mario. I don't know how anyone can play something with such lifeless gameplay like Galaxy for more than an hour, or a game with such shit stages like in Sunshine.
I'm not even trying to bring Mario 64 up that much, the sequels are just that goddamn terrible. Odyssey looks genuinely good though.

>> No.4022230

>>4022223
it makes sense for the slow drag dowm the wall. thats how megaman x does it and i dont see anyone shitting on thay in favor of super metroids non obvious wall jumping

>> No.4022468

>>4022037
>We're talking about Mario, not Sonic.
Yeah, Mario. The franchise that literally popularized momentum in platforming. The series has always been about good physics, ever since SMB1. For some reason after Sunshine they decided it wasn't anymore.

>> No.4022469 [DELETED] 

>>4022149
>Does galaxy have the wallkick like 64 had?
It has a terrible watered down version of it where you magnet to the wall and slide down it with unlimited time to time your jump.

SM64 wallkicks had a 4 frame window, so they actually took skill and precision.

>> No.4022470

>>4022230
Super Metroid's walljumps are leagues better than MMX's.

>> No.4022471

>>4022149
>Does galaxy have the wallkick like 64 had?
It has a terrible watered down version of it where you magnet to the wall and slide down it with unlimited time to time your jump.

SM64 wallkicks had a 4 frame window, so they actually took some form of skill and precision.

>> No.4022472

>>4022471
The angle you hit the wall is also completely irrelevant because you always leave the wall at 90 degrees. It's like they made it so mistakes don't matter. Probably for the Wii's toddler demographic.

>> No.4022607

>>4022037
>>4022040

Wow you just disappeared up your own ass

>> No.4022828
File: 132 KB, 835x1121, CvmzoIdVUAAGYLs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4022828

>>4022468
>The franchise that literally popularized momentum in platforming.
Momentum only came up for Mario after SMB3 and World, when you can slide on slopes. SMB1 and other Mario games before 3 didn't had slopes that helped you to get speed.

>The series has always been about good physics, ever since SMB1.
True, and it still does. It has been known that atleast for Mario they do acknowlegde how important is the physics for Mario. Galaxy and Galaxy 2, like what I said, still retains the basic system and engine of physics, just that it doesn't behave exactly like 64's engine.

>>4022472
>Probably for the Wii's toddler demographic.
Wrong. The wallkick mechanic first got changed in Sunshine, not Galaxy. It has nothing to do with Mario's demographic, especially when Mario was always targeted for everyone.

>>4022607
What do you mean? Did I say something that was confusing?

>> No.4022890

>>4022828
>Momentum only came up for Mario after SMB3 and World, when you can slide on slopes. SMB1 and other Mario games before 3 didn't had slopes that helped you to get speed.
>Galaxy and Galaxy 2, like what I said, still retains the basic system and engine of physics
SMB1 popularized the concept of momentum based movement in platformers. Then consecutive Mario games contributed to it even more. SMB3 with P speed and slopes, SMW with the cape, and SM64 with an extremely complex and diverse moveset.

Mario games had ALWAYS been about innovating upon great movement physics, up to and including Sunshine.

Galaxy was nothing but a step backward in this regard.

>> No.4022926

>>4022828
>Momentum only came up for Mario after SMB3 and World
you are retarded, bro. momentum was very much a thing in SMB1, and one of its most defining characteristics.

why did you bring up Sonic as if physics are somehow less important in Mario than in Sonic?

>> No.4022969

>>4010941
the game stinks, dont be sorry

>> No.4023045

>>4022224
>Its the only fun 3D Mario
Eh.

>> No.4023061

>>4022926
>>4022890
>momentum was very much a thing in SMB1, and one of its most defining characteristics.
>SMB1 popularized the concept of momentum based movement in platformers.
That's physics, not really momentum. Mario's speed was limited by the simple fact it didn't feature slopes. When you say "momentum", I think more in terms of speeding and going fast, not really when it comes to handling Mario airbone. SMB1 did popularize the importance of physics, but it still contains some flaws, like how I can't jump higher after stomping enemies, or how it's quite hard to control Mario when he's in air.

>why did you bring up Sonic as if physics are somehow less important in Mario than in Sonic?
I brought up Sonic to compare the the importance of physics being used between them. Sonic (at least the classic games) has the unique feature of going fast, where it's more dependent on slopes and loops, thus being more relied on physics than Mario and having momentum that can be felt and seen. Sonic, when is on not straight terrain, can jump on different angles, while Mario (on 2D) will always jump straight, no matter how different the terrain looks like or messed up. I should also note Sonic has its own unique level design that's designed to have a balance of platforming and speed, while Mario (on most games) focus more on platforming, exploring and solving puzzles.
My point is not that Mario shouldn't have physics or that he never had physics. My point is that Mario is less dependent on physics than Sonic, because Mario is a normal platformer about jumping and exploring, while Sonic is a unique platforming about jumping and being rewarded of speed by momentum and physics.

(cont.)

>> No.4023068

>>4023061
>Then consecutive Mario games contributed to it even more.
SMB2J (wind gimmick?) and SMB2USA, along SML series (SML1 especially), didn't develop SMB1's initial engine, IIRC.

> SMW with the cape
Again, this is more related to physics than momentum, where the only momentum I can think of it is when Mario bounces up when he dives down and hits the enemies while he's flying. I think the better example you could came up is the launching diagonal giant pipe that launches Mario at a higher speed than the normal running speed Mario can come up.

>Galaxy was nothing but a step backward in this regard.
Yes, like I said, I agree it has worse movement and controls, but still not bad.

>> No.4023072

>>4023061
>That's physics, not really momentum.
What in the fuck are you talking about? You can look up interviews where Miyamoto talks specifically about Marios momentum mechanics.

Do you even know what momentum means? If you run in a direction with Mario, he builds up speed and then doesn't stop instantly when you let go of the direction. He has a feeling of weight to him. Just like in real life when you start to run. You can't stop instantly.

>> No.4023094

>>4023072
>Do you even know what momentum means? If you run in a direction with Mario, he builds up speed and then doesn't stop instantly when you let go of the direction. He has a feeling of weight to him. Just like in real life when you start to run. You can't stop instantly.
That's why I said "NOT REALLY momentum" and "MORE RELATED to physics THAN momentum". I never said outright that Mario has no momentum. Mario HAS momentum, but his level design and his gameplay doesn't explore it. Mario's games are MORE focused on jumping, exploring and such than going fast by using momentum.

>> No.4023108

>>4023061
>>4023068
>SMB2J (wind gimmick?) and SMB2USA, along SML series (SML1 especially), didn't develop SMB1's initial engine, IIRC.
>I can't jump higher after stomping enemies
Jumping higher after stomping enemies was added in SMB2J.
>SMB2USA, along SML series (SML1 especially), didn't develop SMB1's initial engine, IIRC.
SMB2USA wasn't a Mario game. SML1 was a rushed afterthought. SML2 is a great example of tight Mario physics. None of these games are part of the mainline Mario games. That's also why I didn't bring up NSMB.
>Again, this is more related to physics than momentum, where the only momentum I can think of it is when Mario bounces up when he dives down and hits the enemies while he's flying. I think the better example you could came up is the launching diagonal giant pipe that launches Mario at a higher speed than the normal running speed Mario can come up.
Momentum is a part of the physics you dummy.
>>4023094
>MORE RELATED to physics THAN momentum
What the fuck does this even mean? The original comment was about physics being important in Mario and how momentum is a huge part of how Mario innovated upon the physics in platformers.

Momentum is INCLUDED under the physics umbrella.

>his level design and his gameplay doesn't explore it.
Yes it fucking does. You need momentum to be able to cross gaps. You can't build speed in the air. You build speed on the ground, and then carry it through the air using your momentum.

>> No.4023116

>>4023061
>>4023068
Needing a running start to cross certain gaps was virtually unheard of in platforming games before SMB1. You do realize this, right?

Mario innovated upon and popularized the concept of momentum as a mechanic in platforming. Period. Sonic's core mechanics would not exist if it weren't for Mario.

>> No.4023180

>>4023108
>You build speed on the ground, and then carry it through the air using your momentum.
that's the whole point of the limited midair control, desu. you're supposed to get a feel for his weight and momentum over time and be able to perform more skillful jumps utilizing it.

>> No.4023193

>>4010941
It's pretty fun and had a huge impact, the success of Mario 64 led to loads of late 80s platforming games.
No Mario 64, then no Banjo Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, DK64, and so on.

I think 3D (and 2D) platformers are great fun for kids. Without them, gaming just descends into more and more violent FPS bullshit. The more kids play that violent shit, the more fucked up society becomes, on the whole.

So actually I think youll find Mario 64 is a great game, buddy.

>> No.4023276

>>4016659
Yeah jumping is gimmicky too

fag

>> No.4023405

oh look, another cool opinion posted on /vr/.

>> No.4023437

>>4023193
>Mario 64
>late 80s
cool timeline bro

>> No.4023458

>>4023193
>Banjo Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, DK64

Those are all from mediocre to shit though, nothing remotely close to SM64.

>> No.4023463

>>4023458
I'd personally put Spyro 1 and Banjo 1 close to SM64.

>> No.4023569
File: 133 KB, 500x522, 555.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
4023569

>>4023458
>Those are all from mediocre to shit though, nothing remotely close to SM64.
I think I'd put Crash (and also to a lesser extent Spyro and Banjo) above SM64 just for the better level design and that the camera, while static I know, isn't a convoluted mess. Otherwise music quality is equal and admittedly Mario does control better, though considering the nature of Crash's own gameplay style it's pretty apt as is.

>> No.4026016

>>4019380
>>4019382
Recalled doing so many of these things while reading. Really, SMB3 is a treasure.

>> No.4026025

>>4023276
t. assblasted sunshine babby

>> No.4027047

>>4023108
>SMB2USA wasn't a Mario game.
But it was. It specifically was a Mario game before it became DDP, which then became Mario again.

>> No.4028771

>>4022224
>I don't know how anyone can play something with such lifeless gameplay like Galaxy for more than an hour
Creativity wank. Worked pretty well on me until I replayed it and all that was left of the game was an empty shell.

>> No.4030414

Mario 64 has incredible controls and tons of movement options. Every other 3d mario feels gutted compared to 64.

>> No.4030416

>>4030414

3D Marios is the same.
If anything Sunshine felt like an improvement.

>> No.4030429

>>4030416

But that's wrong. In later 3d mario games, they took away movement options.

>> No.4030445

>>4010941
>>4011807

let's start with

spyro
crash
sonic adventure

and a bunch of non-vr shit i cant be bothered to list.

>> No.4030569

I'm glad this game stays alive with thanks to the speedrun community and modders.

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