/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.400490]

>go to local game shop
>looking for controllers
>qt3.14 is with me
>notice some copies of sonic 3 on the shelf
>two of them were in the box
>one of them even included the manual
>debating about making gf buy it for me
>while we're discussing buying it, some kid begins looking at sega games near us
>end up getting it along with some controllers (planning to use converters to play on PC)
>as we're leaving, see that kid got the other copy in the box without the manual
>wonder if he came there looking for sonic 3, and felt gimped that he missed out on the box that came with the instruction booklet
>or if somehow he only just got it because he saw us getting it / heard us talking about it
>either way, realize he must be a pretty cool kid
>i'm 27, he must have been around 9-10

Just wanted to share that story with you, /vr/. I hope it restores some of your faith in humanity.

[Anonymous No.400504]

He's going to get stuck at the barrel.

[Anonymous No.400503]

Or there's a third possibility, which is that Sonic is a easy mode kids game and nearly 20 years later people are STILL recommending it to kids.

[Anonymous No.400515]

>>400503
>Sonic is a easy mode kids game
Difficulty can be subjective with Sonic games. See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZNdNp_IZDs
Does that honestly look like easymode to you?

>>400504
Lol true.

[Anonymous No.400542]

>>400515

That doesn't look hard at all. That also doesn't look like anything abnormal, it looks like some guy booted the game up and just sort of dicked around while playing normally, with no special skill or anything.

>22 views

This is just some video you made, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.400552]

>>400542
It is, actually. In fact I did spend a lot of time on it. I don't think I'm any better than anyone else could be if they tried, but I did practice this run a lot and I think it's harder to do than it actually looks.

[Anonymous No.400563]

>>400552
sonicbronis at it's finest

[Anonymous No.400571]

>>400552
I've done runs of almost every level in the game as Sonic alone. If not skill, the videos at least display certain aspects of the game that have not been shown anywhere else on youtube, for what it's worth. Not that I meant to plug the channel or anything, but I thought it seemed relevant and worth mentioning. I would actually be curious for any feedback, I guess, though if /vr/ or anyone who goes here ends up watching any of my vids since nobody else seems to care.

>>400563
>sonicbronis at it's finest
Pardon?

[Anonymous No.400574]

>>400515
I forgot how awful the music was.

[Anonymous No.400584]

>>400574
Oh god, I know. Worst music in the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VBr-Z0mihE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TY3BAM10Ao
There, that's better.

[Anonymous No.400768]

>>400571
> at least display certain aspects of the game that have not been shown anywhere else on youtube

...um, like, what aspects are you talking about here? Am I missing something? It took you almost 6 minutes to clear the level and it was painful to watch as you crawl through easily the worst level in the game. No, it's not hard, it's just troll like all casino levels. If the intent was to show the level's visuals, you did that in the first 30 seconds.

It's a casino level.
>neon lights
>lel star pinball things
>neon lights

[Anonymous No.400785]

>>400768
Not to be a dick or anything. Casino levels are typically the worst. Although I kind of liked the one in Sonic Heroes even though I shouldn't and maybe the one in Sonic adventure if only because it was more of a hub and also had that glorious NiGHTS pinball.

[Anonymous No.400789]

>>400542
>That doesn't look hard at all.
You've probably spent a lot of time playing shit like this though.

[Anonymous No.400835]

>>400768
Well, in short I'm referring to the specific routes I take to get through the levels, basically.

If you look at the whole of Sonic 3/K videos on youtube, there's 2 main kinds: let's plays, and speedruns. The former depicts casuals who don't know what they're doing, the latter involves real pros who do know what they're doing, but they only care about getting the fastest time. I suppose, in my videos, what they tend to show that hasn't been seen elsewhere, is the grandiosity of the game's inherent level design. It's either unrecognized by LPers or bypassed by speed runners.

For example, look at the following segment from Hydrocity Zone, act 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l6e9YQRfFA
Beginning at 1:38, specifically around 1:50 (the video time actually matches the game time, in this case), this is what happens:

I fall straight down from the height of the ramp, jump through the ductwork, and end up above a Dr. Robotnik monitor which I'm falling down towards. I double jump (or shield jump) with the bubble shield, which makes me rebound off the monitor just high enough to reach the ground area before the shield dissipates due to damage incurred by the monitor. Otherwise, if I didn't shield jump, I wouldn't have rebounded high enough to reach that area and as far as I'm concerned, the run would have been ruined (because I would have been left in the aftermath of a big mistake, for one thing, and had to try and make my way past a stretch of spikes which would perhaps have costed me all of my rings so far).

In effect, I show off the exquisite level design of Hirokazu Yashuhara in a way that is overlooked by other people who post videos of this game online. That's what I think makes it interesting.

[Anonymous No.400856]

>>400571
>>400552
Don't let these chucklefucks get to you, those are great runs and they perfectly demonstrate why S3&K is a great game, because it has fun, working physics and gives you a lot of options to utilize them and pass obstacles different ways. I'm going to use your videos as an example if I ever need to explain this point.

[Anonymous No.400881]

>>400515
>difficulty is subjective

That's a slippery slope if I ever saw one. I found the game easy as a kid. It was recommended to my dad by the awesome game store, early 90s, before EB. This was the only game shop I knew to be in existence, capital cities included. It had a reputation for being easy, even among my peers. It was also the only "hard game" I came even close to beating, I could never get far past the jungle stage because I ran out of continues too fast.

[Anonymous No.400897]

>>400881
>>difficulty is subjective
Sonic is a game based around replay value. Also, the power rings are important to consider when evaluating the difficulty of the game.

To most people, power rings are designed to lower the difficulty, as a safety net. Beating the game while "abusing" the power rings is easy, no debate here.

Beating the game well; that is, collecting and maintaining a lot of power rings, might be one measure of difficulty outside of the obvious or traditional means of measurement of difficulty. It depends on how you define success, basically, I guess. If your idea of success is collecting a lot of rings, and overcoming the obstacles of the game's level design, that's fine. If you only care about beating the levels as fast as possible, that's fine too.

If you only care about finishing the levels regardless of all other factors, if that's your thing, that's ok too. You know?

[Anonymous No.400902]

>>400835
>So, what you're saying is, you're attempting to give a look into the great level design of the game by playing the levels in manner of which they weren't meant to be played?

The route formula has always been a fairly constant idea in 2D sonic. Higher up offers considerably faster and often safer travel, with the caveat of the potential to fall down to lower routes (and potentially into a trap of some sort) or you have your lower routes which are slower, more hazard dense and flow breaking.

So, what you're doing here is jumping back and forth (and at time going out of your way to postpone progression) between the routes.

Now, you said you're looking for feedback so I had some for you. The idea is sound, and most levels (minus that fucking casino level) clearly do have a lot of thought to them. Instead of having an actual playthrough, grab a map of the level in it's entirety and zoom into locations you find interesting or notable, and explain things in detail. Effectively, reverse engineer the level design. That seems to be what you want to do, so that's what you should do. Then, when you make those points, you can cut to a clip of the part of the level in question to give a visual of the ideas. This would take more time to do, but I bet with the right exposure you could pick up some good subscribers from it. I know I'd subscribe to that.

[Anonymous No.400904]

>>400897
It's also the score factor. Sonic has always been a "high score" replay kind of game. However people only care about this once the modern games started ranking you with letter grades, and forget that the earliest games also kept score. Thus the need to finish the stages quickly, with a lot of rings maintained.

[Anonymous No.400942]

>>400856
I just have to say, thanks man! It is so good to get some recognition from somebody who actually understands what the fuck is going on in these videos, for once.

>>400902
Ah, interesting points. Thanks for your feedback. My thoughts:
>the idea is sound, and most levels (minus that fucking casino level) clearly do have a lot of thought to them.

But, wait. It seems like you're implying Casino Night is a poorly designed level? I beg to differ; I think it's one of the best, most well designed levels in the game (aside from its horrendous soundtrack). There's so much flow to be found here. I will try posting the full act map after this if I can, but the file I have might be too large, I don't recall offhand.

For now, I will post a different picture which I think relates to another part of your post as follows:
>zoom into locations you find interesting or notable, and explain things in detail. Effectively, reverse engineer the level design.
Essentially, that's what I've been doing throughout this entire series of videos, sans the outright explanations for certain areas of interest.

I'm not that big into video editing so that's a bit beyond me at this point, but I will say that's an interesting idea and mayhaps worth my time to research some more. Although, at this point, I already have ideas for a second phase on what I'm interested in accomplishing in S3&K that involves tool assistance, which is another area that is totally foreign to me, so I may be pretty busy with that for some time to come.

[Anonymous No.400947]

>>400897
>>400904
Now explain that to a 10 year old. Which I already understood at the time, but I also understood that Sonic had a very low skill ceiling for simply finishing the levels compared to other games I had played such as Wonder Boy, Bubsy, Mario 1-W among many others.

The only other games which I knew to have a very low ceiling were PC platformers such as the Apogee games.

[Anonymous No.400954]

>>400490
>kid buy le game i like
>faith in humanity RESTORED

[Anonymous No.400965]

>>400947
But I'm not simply finishing the levels. If nothing else, I hope anyone who views my videos would have enough common sense to see that.

[Anonymous No.401000]

[Anonymous No.401002]

>>400965
Why do I care whether or not you're doing the same thing I am?

[Anonymous No.401015]

>>400947
I think you mean skill floor.

A skill ceiling would be the maximum amount of skill that would be required to play the game at full potential.

But then again, in terms of "simply finishing the levels" not much or any skill is really required.

[Anonymous No.401047]

>>400947
>PC platformers such as the Apogee games.
fuck yeah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouijqW7nzzw

[Anonymous No.402716]

>>401047

[Anonymous No.407005]

>>400942
Have you considered adding annotations to your videos to explain what you're trying to show? I appreciate what you're trying to do with these videos, but the sort of stuff you're trying to showcase won't be obvious to the casual viewer. Maybe label your videos more explicitly, too; if you just call them "Hydrocity Zone, Act 2" or whatever and I only watch for ten seconds, it just looks like a guy dicking around in the level with no real purpose.

[Anonymous No.407072]

>>400490
>i'm 27

Got another two years before you attain wizard status, OP. Better get cracking on that.

[Anonymous No.407092]

>I hope it restores some of your faith in humanity.

Well OP, I could see this child going one of two ways. He uses the mediocre 2D Sonic games as a jumping off point into the Genesis library, discovering the 100 or so Genesis games that are better than Sonic, or he doesn't, just plays Sonic, moves on to the awful 3D ones, and becomes another one of "those" Sonic fans.

[Anonymous No.407121]

Pretty "babby's first video game" if you ask me.

When the kid plays Wizardry off a 5.25" disk on a real Apple II and beats it, get back to me.

[Anonymous No.407162]

>>407121
Idiot

[Anonymous No.407182]

>>400490
>long ass uneventful greentext
>wait this could be touching, he's gonna give the little kid the manual since he might need it
>nope, he kept the manual in true neckbeard fashion
>goes on 4chan and posts about it

What was the point of this "story" again?

[Anonymous No.407223]

>>407121
ok so how do you be a hardcoar l33t retro gaymurz

[Anonymous No.407320]

>>407223
Protip: Not by playing entry level gaymez

[Anonymous No.407359]

>>407072
1/10

[Anonymous No.407364]

>>407121
The very definition of pretentious elitist prick.

[Anonymous No.407389]

Ah yeah, that's the stuff

[Anonymous No.407385]

>>407364
Hey, everyone's gotta start somewhere

[Anonymous No.407417]

>>407389
"Richard Garriott has stated that he began writing this game when he realized (partly from letters of enraged parents) that in the earlier games immoral actions like stealing and murder of peaceful citizens had been necessary or at least very useful actions in order to win the game, and that such features might be objectionable. Furthermore, organizations like BADD (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons) were drawing attention to the supposedly satanic content in role-playing games in general, and the demonic nature of the antagonist of Ultima III, as depicted on that game's box cover, was a good target."

[Anonymous No.407413]

>>407389
>IV
Could you be any more pleb?

[Anonymous No.407431]

>>407413
yeh Wizardry is more hardcore than Ultima. Those games are true torture tests.

[Anonymous No.407438]

>>407417
I know; everyone in the 80s was obsessed with Satanism. D&D and heavy metal were frying children's brains.

[Anonymous No.407456]

>>407417
>>407438
"Pulling formed B.A.D.D. after her son Irving committed suicide[3] by shooting himself in the chest[4] on 9 June 1982. Irving was an active D&D player, and she believed his suicide was directly related to the game."

Fuck, this was almost exactly the same as the Judas Priest lawsuit

[Anonymous No.407503]

>>407413
Heh heh, let's install homo moral shit in U4

[Anonymous No.407587]

>>400954
This. Your a fucking faggot.

[Anonymous No.410304]

>>407005
I have thought of adding annotations before, I'm not sure, I will think about it some more. I think a name change for all of my videos is definitely in order, that's another thing I've been considering for some time. I could never think of what to call them, though. It seems like there should be a naming theme I use that is consistent among all the videos, like I could have totally unique names for each one but all based on some aspect of the levels themselves. For instance, this might be called "Sanic built the pyramids" or something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXJgzVo1__8

>>407092
>the mediocre 2D Sonic games
>the 100 or so Genesis games that are better than Sonic
0/fast

>>407182
>>407182
>>nope, he kept the manual in true neckbeard fashion
Is this a joke? I hope so, because I lol'd. He didn't need the manual, he probably wouldn't even think to check it if he had it - any questions about the game that might come up, would be easily answered by going on the internet. He would probably disregard it completely and it would end up getting lost or some such. Besides, it's not socially acceptable for someone my age and gender to speak to children anyway.

>>407417
>Furthermore, organizations like BADD (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons)
I can't believe that's an actual organization.

[Anonymous No.410321]

>>410304
Pic by the way is unrelated, just a random retro image I had laying around.

[Anonymous No.410351]

>>400515
No it looks like a terrible game. Fuck you and fuck sonic too.

[Anonymous No.413623]

>>400904
But the old games' scoring system is designed to reward speed above all else. It goes in tiers from 50,000 to 10,000 to 5,000 to 4,000 ... 1,000 to 100.

In other words, there's a tipping point for when the opportunity cost of getting a fast time becomes outweighed by collecting a lot of rings. This happens to ocurr around 1:30 IIRC, which most levels cannot be finished in that time without abusing errors in the game's code more or less, like zipping.

So, really it's important to know the level in order to determine whether it's more efficient to go for speed or to go for rings. Rarely both at the same time, though.

[Anonymous No.413636]

>>410304
>Furthermore, organizations like BADD (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons)
>I can't believe that's an actual organization

It was until the bitch succumbed in 2002 to one too many packs of Camels

[Anonymous No.413667]

>>400490
>debating about making gf buy it for me.
Wow, what a scrub. Grow some balls and buy your own games. Treat your lady, not vice versa. Clearly she must be fucking ugly if she's desperate enough to buy you this shit.

[Anonymous No.413689]

>>413667
>man up and be the money of the relationship
dat sexism

[Anonymous No.413698]

>>413623
Sonic 3 and S&K fucked that up by giving a 100,000 point bonus for finishing in exactly 9:59, though. God knows why.

[Anonymous No.413703]

>>413689
I believe in capitalism. You trade money for sex. Every relationship boils down to that. She gives you sex, you buy her things. Not vice versa. Anyone who thinks differently is naive and immature.

[Anonymous No.413729]

>>413703

I AM EDGY AND YOU SHOULD BE TOO.

[Anonymous No.413740]

>>413729
See? Immature. Thanks for proving my point Anon-kun :D. /hug

[Anonymous No.413743]

>>413703
Why can't I give her sex and she buys me things? That is pig disgusting sexism.

Besides, if you think about it, she receives sex. Since she's a woman. Just saying.

[Anonymous No.413745]

>>413729
Too bad he's actually right, look at the animal kingdom: those who supply and have power dominate and the beta's amount to nothing but an after-thought or a last-resort.

[Anonymous No.413762]

>>413745

But gender isn't an indication of power anymore.

And this is off topic, can a janitor delete these few posts please?

[Anonymous No.413781]

>>413762
OP made this thread about being a useless scrub. How am I off topic?

[Anonymous No.413767]

>>413743
She can get other dick, my guess is you can't find another girl. Especially if you go around wanting your woman to buy you things.

[Anonymous No.413783]

>>413762
If you truly believe gender equality fully exists then you are deluded m8. And that isn't bias towards one gender or the other, both hold more power in different ways.