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/vr/ - Retro Games


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3883413 No.3883413 [Reply] [Original]

Could the geneisis have handled Chrono Trigger or anything close? I look at a game like Crusaders of Centy and it's crazy how much of a SNES game it looks like. It makes me think the CT could have been possible in some form.

>> No.3883419
File: 52 KB, 640x240, pix-CoC-01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883419

This is Crusaders of Centy

>> No.3883424

>>3883413
There was a pretty large number of multiplats between Genesis and SNES, so I would imagine a Chrono Trigger port wouldn't be difficult at all. Although Square probably had to sign an exclusivity contract with Nintendo in order to have any of their games licensed for the SNES, so it's doubtful they could have ported CT to any other platform at the time.

>> No.3883426

>>3883413
No problem except that the game is heavy on transparencies which Genesis wasn't that good at

>> No.3883429

The music wouldn't be as good, but graphically it would have been about the same

>> No.3883435

>>3883413
It would've had a major graphics downgrade, poor colours, no transparency on the special attacks (other than white/grey ones), a shit load of dithering used as a substitute, and no mode 7 effects.

It would've needed to use multiplexed sprites instead, like Beyond Oasis / Story of Thor did.

>> No.3883453 [DELETED] 
File: 346 KB, 640x451, 37-priestlitany.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883453

>>3883413
Lunar 2 came out in 1995 as well and looks better. Just take out all the anime cutscenes and it could have fit on cartridge.

>> No.3883458

Sega CD could have pulled off a damn near identical port.

>> No.3883513

>>3883419
> A blatant Link to the Past ripoff.

>> No.3883515

Chrono Trigger was to SNES what Gunstar Heroes was to Genesis. They both came late in each of their consoles lives. The developers knew the strengths and weaknesses of the hardware and took full advantage. Sure it could have been possible, but it would have been a very different experience.

>> No.3883518

>>3883413
>Could the geneisis have handled Chrono Trigger or anything close?

Remember the fog effect from the bad future lab area?

>> No.3883526

>>3883413
Have you seen Sega Genesis' version of Lufia?

That should give you a fair idea of how a CT Genesis port would have been.

>> No.3883540

A big part of why CT is remembered as such a classic is its soundtrack, and it just would not have been fondly remembered had it sounded like robot farts.

>> No.3883558

>>3883453

Sega CD had more hardware capabilities than the original Genesis so it's not a fair comparison. CT used no special chips.

>> No.3883564

>>3883558
The PCM audio would have helped, but Sega CD was still restricted to 64 colors on screen.

>> No.3883576 [DELETED] 
File: 47 KB, 750x545, 5b811be913d41b4fcf056afd4cd6dbb56f1757ac.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883576

>>3883540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeJPi4A_Qxs
Robot Farts sound better than sampled MIDI Farts

>> No.3883594

>>3883518
>Remember the fog effect from the bad future lab area?

The genesis could've done a 1 colour transparent overlay using shadow/highlight, but other than that, it would've had to use a dithered extra layer.

>> No.3883602

>>3883526
>Have you seen Sega Genesis' version of Lufia?
Tell me more senpai

>> No.3883638

>>3883540
>the robot farts meme
is this all u got nig

>> No.3883648

>>3883638
>dismissing the truth by calling it a meme
is that all u got nig

>> No.3883651

>>3883648
>falling for the green text meme
is that all u got nig

>> No.3883652
File: 252 KB, 576x672, 1490810234559.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883652

>>3883413
some of the more colour intensive scenes and special effects would need to be reworked/downgraded with dithering and things like that, but for the most part it could handle a close enough adaptation i guess

those unlincensed chinese/taiwanese RPGs from 95/96 don't look that much worse than many SNES/SFC RPGs from the same era, even with a much lower budget

>> No.3883661

>>3883413
Of course it could have. CT used eye candy specific to the SNES. But similar but different things could have been done on the Genesis.

>>3883435
Lack of transparencies and not shilling mode 7 aren't major graphics downgrades and certainly not deal breakers.

>>3883453
Most of the few non-FMVs that came out for the CD were great. CT could have been done far better on that platform. Too bad Sega is retarded.

>> No.3883668

>>3883651
Wow man you sure got me on that one.

>> No.3883679

>>3883668
Glad we can finally agree on something.

>> No.3883681

>>3883429
The music would have been better because it wouldn't be so muffled sounding.

>> No.3883682

>>3883679
That was sarcasm. You were greentexting too, you see.

>> No.3883683

>>3883661
>all the power of TWO motorola 68000's
>combined with a CD drive
>let's make FMV games instead!
what the FUCK were they thinking?

>> No.3883686

>>3883682
>Trying to convey sarcasm through text.
You have become the meme my friend.

>> No.3883691
File: 39 KB, 400x350, 5414660_8716bf615a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883691

>>3883686
Then I shall end this on a meme, because I don't know where to go from here.

>> No.3883794

>>3883648
>memes are truth now
nig u done

>> No.3883809

>>3883413
Fewer colors are a given.

Some of the transparency effects could be emulated with shadow and highlight. Crusader of Centy was already posted in this thread. It perfectly emulates the forest shadows transparency from LttP with the VDP shadow
feature.

Had the game been designed for Genesis they
would probably put more emphasis on scrolling planes or something.

The game would be a higher resolution on Genesis.

Chrono Triggerr barely made use of background scaling/rotating except for the Johnny mini game which doesn't even make proper use of it. So it could be accomplished in modified form.

Genesis version of CT could focus instead on sprite scaling/rotating some of the special effects to compensate for other things. SNES can't do that, but the Genesis CPU is fast enough to do a bit of it in software.

>> No.3884008

Consider how sega autists have remade practically every SNES game soundtrack into genesis fart-style, I'm surprised they haven't tried to outright remake CT into a work Genny rom.

>> No.3884363

>>3883661
>Lack of transparencies and not shilling mode 7 aren't major graphics downgrades and certainly not deal breakers.

Go play Zombies Ate My Neighbors on Genesis and say that.

>> No.3884381

>>3883515
Gunstar was later? You mean Alien Soldier.

>> No.3884389

>>3883540
>hating robot fart bass
it's like you hate the 80s or something, pleb

>> No.3884408

>>3883413
Sure, why not? The colors might not be as rich and the music would be a little more Genesis-ish, but that's about it.

>>3883426
Could be done on the CPU very likely without any noticeable drop in performance. Take a look at some of the demoscene stuff for the Genesis. Worst case scenario, it could just be faked.

>> No.3884410

>>3883435
Mode 7 effects can be approximated on the CPU no problem, even while doing other stuff. Tons of examples in the homebrew and demoscene on this.

>> No.3884542

>>3884363
You clearly don't understand the reasons the game was so bad on the Genesis. None of them were technical. It was an afterthought the developers were forced to shit out on a tight deadline and make work with a 6 button controller.

>> No.3884549

>>3884408
>Could be done on the CPU

Ugh, no. This meme needs to die.
You can't do transparency on a CPU unless you want to sacrifice 99% of your CPU time shifting pixels with it.

>> No.3885480

>>3883576

with a good sound driver you could add in whatever samples you need

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdL8fJH2mic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmKGqAUYtgU

>> No.3885501

>>3883453
>not knowing that the CD added extra hardware support

>> No.3886328

>>3885501
You mean it wasn't just a case for the existing CD? Which in its self would be technically be hardware. Stop trying to make my cat confuse.

>> No.3886338

>>3884542

In a perfect world every port would be it's own project sure, but when your ports suffer because of lack of palette and transparencies, that's a big deal that only really makes itself apparent years later. Gen library is filled to the brim with substandard ports.

>> No.3887221

>>3886338
That port was shit from day one. You want to see shit ports? Meet my Amiga.

>> No.3887602
File: 854 KB, 2592x1944, MDgames.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3887602

I was pretty impressed with what Pier Solar was able to achieve on the Genesis. Wish I knew about it sooner to get the better box with CD songs. The game fakes mode7 pretty well, and shows off some technical feats for the hardware.

People are always showing off some cool stuff with what they can do on the Mega Drive or just the "crappy" sound chips and they end out impressive to me:
https://youtu.be/UuYFmIEtLLk


>>3883576
As much as I love the SNES sound, I also appreciate the Genesis remixes too. There's a raw and powerful aspect to them, like a fuller waveform to me, but it takes technical mastery to achieve on the Genesis:
https://youtu.be/fWNGNh8JDcQ


>>3885480
That Gust Planet act 2 song is very good to me. Sounds like the Sonic CD sound which I love and why I'm hyped for Sonic Mania. I'd assume that runs from CD redbook rather than actual Genesis/Mega Drive hardware, but if it does ... DAMN! I just wonder if that level of music can run concurrently with gameplay.


I am pretty interested in Paprium which I am hoping the music will sound as good as advertised on the Genesis/Mega Drive:
https://youtu.be/q44cXbcyWD8

>> No.3887609

>>3883419
SNES could display more than 64 washed-out colors at a time. In fact, it could display more than 64 vibrant colors of quality at a time. Genesis could only display washed out color, 64 of such, as in your screenshot.

>> No.3887629

>it's a blast processing thread
>Genedrones don't know that SNES games of quality with SA1 chips ran at 10.74 MHz with an additional CPU on the cart

>> No.3887634

>>3887609
Why do you talk like that?

>> No.3887649
File: 851 KB, 2592x1944, Protip_fart_in_your_kids_ears_for_their_formative_years.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3887649

>>3887609
I don't think anyone is arguing that the SNES can display more colors than the Genesis. Working within the confines of the 64 (or 61 actual?) displayed colors of a significantly more limited 512 palette required a bit of art direction to make things look good on the Genesis. Concessions would have to be made for a Chrono Trigger-like game, but I do not think Crusaders of Centy looks bad, so I think it may be possible.

https://youtu.be/Z9rjwECf2wQ

>> No.3887841

>>3887634
Why do you not understand the difference between talking and writing?
><18
Got it

>> No.3887919

>>3887634
Better spend years making threads on /qa/ petitioning my permanent ban since my doing so is threatening the quality of all /vr/. Get to it.

>> No.3888009

>>3887919
Why do you write like a nigger?

>> No.3890660

>>3883419
Looks like a GBA game, those always had similarly soft colour schemes because of the shitty screen

>> No.3890676

>>3883683
>what the FUCK were they thinking?

They can't make better looking games because splitting game logic across those two 68ks was impossible, but FMV decoding scales well via separate CPUs. Plus what makes the game look better is the VDP, which was unchanged anyway.

>> No.3891984

>>3883453
:3

>> No.3892915

>>3890676
>They can't make better looking games because splitting game logic across those two 68ks was impossible
how come? they could split logic across the 68000 and Z80

>> No.3893385

>>3892915
I don't think he meant literally impossible but that it couldn't been used effectively, do to the architecture, to give the game the features he feels are critical. Most likely transparency. That seems to be what every Genesis vs SNES thread is bitching about currently.

>> No.3893415

I remember chrono trigger having some effects that the genesis didn't support but could probably be done through software. I think it would be better to do that kind of game but use effects that highlight the genesis strengths instead.

>> No.3893442

>tfw we'll never know what a 32X RPG would've looked like

Unless we make it ourselves

>> No.3893460 [DELETED] 

>>3893442
A 32X-CD rpg would be even better. Shame they only made western FMV shit for it.

>> No.3893463

>>3893442
>8bpp "packed pixel" mode: 256 simultaneous colors on screen; each pixel is an index into CRAM (can use full screen)
>16bpp "run length" mode: 256 simultaneous colors on screen; each pixel is both a number of pixels to display and the index of CRAM (limits screen size)
>16bpp "direct color" mode: 32,768 simultaneous colors on screen; each pixel is the color value (limits screen size)

Would probably look like a SNES game. Or more colorful than a SNES game, but with a border, which probably wouldn't be a good tradeoff for a 2D game.

>> No.3893471

>>3893463
That's just the 32X VDP. You can also overlay/underlay planes and sprites from the MD itself for EXTREME PARALLAX SCROLLING. Also, you actually have a framebuffer so you have INFINITE SPRITES would not actually handle infinite sprites, you'd run out of system memory, stupid.

>> No.3893480

>>3892915
>how come? they could split logic across the 68000 and Z80

Because the Z80 did shit that required 0 input from the 68k, they used it for sound, which is piss easy to do since it is a one way, fire and forget command (put a "play sound effect x" command in the part of memory the Z80 can read, then trigger a hardware interrupt, which makes the Z80 read the command queue and act upon it).

Spreading more advanced game logic like doing any math calculation of collisions or special effects, would require a level of co-operation and context switching that the Sega CD 68k is simply not equipped to do efficiently. It would be hard to do, and it would take both cpus to be maxed out to get little additional computational gain.

Only thing you can do with it really, is to handle the CD drive, and maybe tell the PCM chip to play sound effects (but even that requires frame-by-frame synchronization between the two - there are no hardware interrupts!). Maybe handle some scaled sprites, but that's just copying data back and forth.

You don't magically get Sonic to run 2.5x faster because there's an extra 12MHz 68k on a data-only bus. Nor can you get twice the colours, or more enemies on screen in Streets of Rage, since you are limited there by the video chip on the Genesis side.

>>3893442
Take one of the Saturn 2d only RPGs, remove any transparency effects, make the games 4 mbyte max in size, and make the sound FM/PSG only with the exception of occasional 3-4 samples (mostly drums).

>> No.3893492

>>3893480
>remove any transparency effects
32X had hardware support for alpha blending.

>make the games 4 mbyte max in size
Memory banking is completely possible with the addition of a memory controller on the cartridge just like on every other console. Games can be any size.

>make the sound FM/PSG only with the exception of occasional 3-4 samples (mostly drums)
I'm not an expert on sound, but from the wiki:

Sound chip: QSound PWM @ 23.01136 MHz (NTSC), 22.801467 MHz (PAL)[47]
Stereo PWM (Pulse Wave Modulation) mixing with Mega Drive sound; additional 2 channels (12 channels in total)
11-bit PWM, stereo PCM output,[26] surround sound

>> No.3893509

>>3893492
>32X had hardware support for alpha blending.

iirc all the 32x had was a dumb frame buffer with very basic plotting commands; so of course you can do blending but only by reading out the buffer contents first, doing some addition/other math between it and the blended sprite, then write it back. Which is sloooooooow. And doesn't work on any of the backgrounds provided by the Genesis part because that one is just genlocked analog rgb input.

>Games can be any size.

raises cart costs astronomically.

>I'm not an expert on sound, but from the wiki:

From memory it has 2 or 3 channels PWM only. Everything else is just whatever you can get out of those channels, plus whatever the Genesis YM2612 could push next to that (it had 1 pcm channel).

And note that Sega Retro wiki hilariously over-inflates all specifications (ie. all the write there is high calibre bullshit). If someone writes a software video decoder for the console, they'll state that it can decode FMV, despite it being a hardware feature only as much as tessellation on the Commodore 64.

>> No.3893534

>>3893509
No, it had alpha blending built right into the VDP. Very fast.

Astronomically? More like... pennies? It can be as simple as a single microcontroller. You didn't even see a price difference on games that used them and games that didn't on most consoles.

The Sega Retro wiki is pretty much verbatim listing the technical specifications of the hardware as per the official hardware documentation from Sega...

>> No.3894942

>>3893534
>No, it had alpha blending built right into the VDP. Very fast.

The 32x vdp could do nothing in hardware but fill sections with a certain colour. That's it. No alpha blending, unless you do it in software. And even if it had it in hardware, it would still require at least twice as much time compared to a single write (blending requires twice as many memory reads + extra math).

>Astronomically? More like... pennies?

The only Genesis cart to use an extra memory controller to go beyond the 32mbit limit was SSF2, and it cost $80 at release when a normal AAA title was $50-60. A difference of $20, which is more than "pennies".

And this was in 1994 dollars. Adjusted to inflation, it's almost twice as much.

>The Sega Retro wiki is pretty much verbatim listing the technical specifications of the hardware as per the official hardware documentation from Sega...

They also fill it up with bullshit at every place possible. For example If a machine has 3 separate banks of memory, each at a fillrate of 20mbyte/sec, they'll list the machine having 60mbyte/sec. Which is not true because it implies that each section can be written to three times as fast. They are chock full with small cheats like that, which make every single machine look twnty times stronger on paper than they are in reality.

>> No.3895431

>>3893509
genesis can do 4 software mixed pcm channels. that wiki probably counts 2 pcm + 5 fm + 3 psg

>> No.3895648

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbiNdv6MXmE

>> No.3895840

>>3884542
....what's wrong with Zombies Ate My Neighbors on genesis?

>> No.3895853

>>3895431
>genesis can do 4 software mixed pcm channels

That's with the 68k doing nothing else but software mixing. No game logic running behind it at all, just a press start / options screen (it was in Toy Story).

The most intensive multi channel pcm actually used in game was UMK3 which had 2 channels as I recall.

>> No.3895882

>>3883413
It would play exactly the same and have the exact same writing, but some of the colors would be different. If it was a CD game the music could be even better.

>> No.3895885

>>3883652
Gamename?

>> No.3895963

>>3883576
Seriously thought I was listening to Rick Astley at first.

>> No.3895998

>>3895885
Shui Hu Zhuan / Fengshen Yingjiechuan
Beggar Prince / Ya-Se Chuan Shuo
Tun Shi Tian Di III / Brave Battle Saga: Legend of the Magic Warrior

>> No.3897349

>>3895853

sdgk supports up to 4 pcm running on the z80 iirc

>> No.3897351

>>3895853
>>3897349

skitchin does 4 software channels in game, and mega turrican does 2

>> No.3898523

>>3895840
It doesn't use all 6 buttons. Because it doesn't need to. Because the map is always displayed. Horribly distorting the actual game play area. It's a shit port.

>> No.3899617

>>3898523
How do we know it was ported to the Genesis? Most multiplats started as Genesis games and got ported to SNES. I think the SNES art looks stretched, like most SNES ports. I also prefer having a HUD that doesn't cover up the screen. SNES sounds better and has one extra gun, but as long as you have the 6 button controller they both play equally well.

>> No.3899628

>>3898523
Map gets displayed all the time because Genesis has a higher resolution than the SNES, there is no distort. Retard.

>> No.3899974

>>3899617
Obviously "we" don't, since that includes you. However me and many others are aware that's what happened.

>>3899628
Try on original hardware with a CRT champ.

>> No.3900025

>>3899974
You're wrong though. It spent several months as a series of low-budget experiments on the SNES, but the Genesis version began development as soon as the game started to come together. For the most part, the two versions were developed simultaneously and were released simultaneously.

Neither was rushed. In fact, they had a lot more time than they needed.

Here's the lead designer discussing the gun that only exists in the SNES version:

"We had a lot of spare time near the end of the project, while we waited for all the contracts to be signed between LucasArts and Konami. I think Dean and I just stuck that in at the very last second. I was not aware it was missing from the Genesis version."

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/zamn/zamn1.htm

>> No.3900031

the genesis' most advanced games blow the fuck out of the SNES' best games. The only good looking SNES games require hardware expansion.

>> No.3900046

>>3900031
Kinda depends on what you like. Snes had way more graphical effects and colors to throw around, but Sega was faster and higher res so it could have more going on on screen.

What would you consider genesis' most advanced games?

>> No.3900090

>>3900046
>What would you consider genesis' most advanced games?

Hard to say, by the time people got to know the hardware enough, the industry already shifted to multiplats where the Genesis didn't shine.

I'd probably say Toy Story, Vectorman or Adventure of Batman & Robin, maybe Ranger X. Red Zone is also very impressive. Comix Zone doesn't look like it, but the comic book layout actually pushes the hardware extremely hard. Road Rash uses the powerful CPU to run software scaling on a large scale.

There were a bunch of games that did 3d, Zero Tolerance, and some other early game I forgot the name.

Other than those, there are a lot of games which aren't "advanced", they just do what the hardware is meant to do normally, but have good designs that make them look very colourful or action packed. Like the Sonic games, Streets of Rage 2, Thunder Force 4, Ristar, Alisia Dragoon, Strider, Gunstar Heroes, Toejam & Earl 2, Aladdin, both Earthworm Jims, both Eccos, Monster World 4 etc.

If you count homebrew, someone ported all of Wolfenstein 3d to Genesis, using the original engine. Looks way better than the SNES port.

>> No.3900179

>>3883652
I find it interesting that a lot of those RPGs used their language as a selling point. "Hey guys, here's an RPG you can actually understand!"

>> No.3900405

>>3900025
But I'm right though. Your quote doesn't invalidate anything I said. But your link backs me up.
>According to Ebert the Sega version only started much later: "Back then everything was very low budget. We started on the Nintendo version first.
Thanks for the help champ. I'm way too lazy to dig that up on my own.

>> No.3900414

The SNES's 65C816 CPU makes for a good processor for an 80s computer which requires backwards compatibility above all else (see Apple IIGS) but for a game console released in the 90s it's a joke.

It still uses an 8-bit external data bus and only has an anemic range of registers so its memory performance is completely shit. Even its better IPC than a 68000 is wasted due to memory chokepoints. Only real thing going for is it loses fewer cycles on latency when interrupted than other CPUs.

There's a myth that people keep repeating that the SNES' PPU takes burden off the CPU, but that's bullshit. Obviously it takes burden off the CPU, but no more than the Genesis video chip takes burden off its CPU, with ONE exception. The PPU has a DSP limited backround scaling/rotation. Other than taking that job off the SNES CPU it's gotta do all the rest of the work.

>> No.3900451

>>3900405
I mean all the words surrounding those say youre wrong but ok

>> No.3900459

>>3900090
SNES doesn't have anything like Road Rash, but Genesis doesn't have anything like F-Zero.

>> No.3900462

>>3883576
SoundCanvas > FM Synthesis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXx0IWcNw_s

>> No.3900471

>>3900462
what is this and how is it sega

>> No.3900472

>>3900462
Paula > all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvha_2hAzq0

>> No.3900481

>>3900472
>>3900471
Roland SoundCanvas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwq4iOzgLjg

EVerybody in the dev industry used it in the 90s.

>> No.3900540

>>3900046
>What would you consider genesis' most advanced games?

Effects
>Red Zone, The Lost World, Ecco: Tides of Time, Adventures of Batman & Robin, ResQ (special stage), Panorama Cotton, Vectorman 1, Ranger X, Toy Story, Zero Tolerance, Bloodshot

Color-usage:
>Flink, Beyond Oasis, Rocket Knight Adventures, Brave Battle Saga, Monster World IV, Pulseman, Ristar, Quackshot, Puggsy, Mega Turrican, Ranger X

Sound:
>Streets of Rage 1 & 2, Super Shinobi 1 & 2, Thunder Force IV, Jewel Master, Gauntlet IV, Bad Omen, Toy Story, Time Trax, Golden Axe 2 & 3

>> No.3900573 [DELETED] 

>>3895963
Rick Astley/S.A.W. used DX7 FM synth for the BASS like most 80s synth pop/r&b/disco bands. You could not escape FM synth Bass in the late 80s.
http://bobbyblues.recup.ch/yamaha_dx7/cd/Another_Part_Of_Me.mp3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSNWeXGZMcU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMCXx5k01Tg

>> No.3900624

>>3900451
So point some out champ. Cmon. It's an interview with an admitted script kiddie in a shit rag. You've got to be able to find something. kek

>> No.3900628

>>3900459
It was not totally out of reach
https://youtube.com/watch?v=d_H0kdWPzfs
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SwW5y4rrvwk
https://youtube.com/watch?v=YUZpF2JLF4s

>> No.3900838 [DELETED] 

>>3900628
The PCE port of F-ZERO was much better imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEp7niIP4Qw

also why is PCE always left out of kiddy console war threads?

>> No.3900873

>>3900838
only real 16-bit consoles are allowed to console war

>> No.3900940

>>3883564
There are some workarounds to get more colors on screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9rjwECf2wQ

>> No.3900948

>>3900940
That Vectorman title screen is fucking wizardry. I still can't get my head around how the hell it works. It has like 8 different effects it keeps switching around seamlessly.

One of the most impressive title screens ever.

>> No.3900950

>>3900540
shit, I forgot about Panorama Cotton.

That game is insane.

>> No.3900957

>>3900948
Even without tricks the Genesis supports 183 colors simultaneously with the shadow/highlight feature. Basically, the VDP can calculate a lighter or darker version of each of the 61 colors in the active palette at once. It works a little bit like transparency but in a much more limited way.

>> No.3900983

>>3900459
f-zero looks fucking terrible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKjfucYYl7E

>> No.3900987

>>3900983
>comparing sub 20 fps crap to F-Zero

>> No.3900990

>>3900987
and yet, nothing on the super nintendo can even compare, sad.

>> No.3901007

>>3900957
It's not actually 183 colours because the highlight version of some colour matches the shadow version of another, and vica versa. Plus it only has very limited use because the most you can do is telling a sprite to, instead of being drawn as a sprite, to just apply shadow/highlight to anything under its opaque pixels. You'd need C64 style sprite multiplexing to get more colours in practice using that, or limit it to simple things like light beams (Ranger X did that on the city stage). But for what its worth, you can do basic transparency that way.

It is mid scanline palette change that can boost the colour number significantly. Even that is pretty limited, but you have some pretty damn nice applications for it, the most popular being the underwater scenes in Sonic. Or just have a UI on the bottom, outside the game screen, using a completely separate palette.

>> No.3901019

>>3900990
Star Fox is also rail shooter with shitty framerate if that's what you like

>> No.3901040

>>3901019
and it still needed expansion hardware in order to achieve its embarrassing results

>> No.3901048

>>3901040
yet you are defending a game just as shitty because >muh glorious genesis hardware
kek, fucking segatards

>> No.3901083

>>3901048
The point is that a vanilla Genesis could do, in pure muscle, what the SNES needs standing aids for.

>> No.3901123
File: 62 KB, 640x479, fds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3901123

>actually trying to power a 1990s game console with a MOS 6502

>> No.3901208

>>3901083
Who cares if the game is still shit, 3D/superscalers aren't suited for either the MD nor SNES period. And the MD still couldn't run F-Zero at 60 fps anyway

>> No.3901334

>>3900624
You said the visuals were distorted, which shows you don't know anything about the differences between the SNES and Genesis. It's distorted on the SNES because of the weird aspect ratio and lower resolution, just like every other multiplat game. Genesis is what it should look like. That's why Genesis is able to display the same area and have room left over to display the HUD without obscuring the gameplay.

>> No.3901343

>>3900838
Because it has like 5 good games, one for each person who bough it.

>> No.3901347

>>3901208
>Who cares if the game is still shit,

Plenty of people think otherwise for Star Fox.

>> No.3901359
File: 594 KB, 1000x1000, Super-Star-Wars.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3901359

Nintendo had Star Wars and Sega didn't.

SNES 1 Genesis 0

>> No.3901378

>>3901347
yeah, panorama cotton is actually a great game. I don't know any 3D polygon games on the genesis, but on the sega CD, silpheed definitely destroys starfox.

>> No.3901395
File: 26 KB, 267x374, Star_Wars_Arcade_for_Sega_32X.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3901395

>>3901359
I'm gonna call "nigger" on that.

>> No.3901830

>>3901334
Sorry. I should have addressed the play on original hardware with a crt to both kids

>> No.3901870

General Genesis question.
Can a US model 1 or 2 work with the Japanese 32x?
I'd like to give some 32x games a try but I am not paying $60 for a working unit when I get it somewhere else for 1/3rd the cost.

>> No.3902021

>>3901395

That's not a Genesis game. Count em.

SNES: 3
32X: 1
Genesis: 0

>> No.3902139

>>3901343
lol biggest shmup library on any console

>> No.3902148

>>3900838

way more limited. nes games had similar scrolling

>> No.3902157

>>3902139
yeah, and that's why all 5 shmup fans bought a PCE. shmups are the most niche of the niche genres.

also biggest library =/= best games.

>> No.3902167

>>3902157
>shmups are the most niche of the niche genres

and also the best genre.

anyway though, it has a lot of the best shmups ever made

and pc engine sold pretty well. you're thinking of the turbo grafx

>> No.3902186

>>3902167
im just being a dick. sales =/= quality.

can you reccomend some shmups? been trying to get into the genre.

>> No.3902201

>>3901378
Slipheed, while a good game, is a regular vertical shmup with FMV backgrounds.

>> No.3902202

>>3902186
Try cotton 2 on the saturn, then its sequel cotton boomerang.

>> No.3902207

>>3902186
personally.. i wouldn't recommend starting with 8 or 16 bit ones, but maybe that's just cause of my preference for later ones. i started really liking the genre when i tried dodonpachi. honestly, it was the visuals drew me in, but it's actually really good. i'd suggest that, and once you get up to speed and start to not suck then branch out to whatever you want to play. your skill will transfer pretty well

>> No.3902240

>>3902207
I'll give it a try! If I need an easier shmup to star out, are there any you'd suggest that are both easier and good?

>> No.3902270

>>3902240
i don't think you'll really need an easier one. jumping into the deep end (and it's not really that deep) will get you up to speed faster. cave has a few easier ones like espgaluda, and i think mushihimesama has a bunch of difficulty modes. i've found that most of the older games tend to be harder due to faster bullets.

>> No.3902275

>>3902201
The normal enemies are all polygonal though.

And the FMVs are fucking beautiful, decent framerate and no artifacts, they would look beautiful even on a 32bit console let alone on the Sega CD.

>> No.3902284

>>3902275
Are they? I couldn't tell, they're all so small.
>FMVs are fucking beautiful
Yeah, it works, but it's still not real polygons rendered by the system.

>> No.3903542

What are the best platformers on Sega consoles? Other than the typical Sonic team and Disney stuff?

>> No.3903551

>>3903542
Too lazy to make a list but I'll give you one: Rocket Knight Adventures

>> No.3903597

>>3903542
Shinobi you double nigger

>> No.3903796

>>3883576
Some of Renegade's remixes are amazing, like that donkey kang aquatic level one.
It just irks me a teeny bit that they don't stick to the actual console's limitations since he uses a VST and imports midis.

>> No.3904106

Chrono Trigger used too many colors and sprite effects for the Genesis to be able to handle it. Not to mention it would have completely butchered the orchestral feel of the soundtrack. SNES was the best toolbox to make RPGs and other slower, but visually detailed games. Genesis was the best toolbox for making fast-paced action games and platformers. Always use the right tool for the job.

>> No.3904117
File: 59 KB, 655x527, 1459250213903.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3904117

>>3883413

They both had 16 bits, isn't that the only real limiting factor for what a system can do?

>> No.3904137

>>3904117
>They both had 16 bits,
> isn't that the only real factor

Good God, where do you even start with this? The length of a memory address is probably the least interesting factor in the performance of a gaming device.

>> No.3904148

>>3904137

If it didn't matter that much, why was every new generation of game systems increased in bits by a factor of 2?

>> No.3904176

>>3904148
Jesus Christ, it was the natural progression of CPU development at the time. Game machines used whatever CPUs were most commonly available at the time. But far more important factors (like intelligent design of the board, a good VPU/GPU, smart memory handling, speed of media access, etc.) were the deciding factors on which machines were more capable.

Game companies were not the ones developing the CPUs (with some very rare but notable exceptions like Sony's Cell processor).

>> No.3904180

>>3904148
>>3904176
I guess not to mention that the N64's CPU was genuinely 64-bit (except for the external bus) but yet the 64-bit support was virtually worthless in practice since 32-bit was good enough for hardware of that era.

>> No.3904195

>>3904180

If 64 bit was worthless why did N64 games look so impressive and 3D like with zelda OoT? I don't think you would be able to run any of those 3D N64 games on a playstation 1. Even just Mario 64 when it first came out was pretty mindblowing compared to playstation or sega saturn shit.

>> No.3904205

>>3904195
>If 64 bit was worthless why did N64 games look so impressive
That's due to the GPU more than anything. Particularly on N64 the GPU can calculate polygons transform and lighting it does most of the heavy lifting and the CPU doesn't have to do too much work.

>> No.3904225

>>3883413

I like Ranger X on Mega Drive. It have a great color palette and a very good pseudo 3D effect on some stages that looks kinda cool.

I think Mega Drive IS capable of much more. But that makes me think that the Super Nintendo is capable of even more.

>> No.3904238

>>3904225
>I think Mega Drive IS capable of much more. But that makes me think that the Super Nintendo is capable of even more.

Megadrive is capable of more because it has a fuckstrong CPU doing the heavy lifting. SNES is not capable of more, because its CPU is not good enough to do fancy pancy effects beyond what the graphics chip can do on its own.

>> No.3904246

>>3904176
the cell cpu was IBM, actually. Sony was just part of the commissioning and directing group. IBM did all the heavy lifting there.

>> No.3904250

>>3904238

Yup. Nintendo really went weak and cheap on the CPU. The best games on the SNES nearly all had to have some kind of additional processing chip in the cartridge to make up for it.

By comparison, only one game was ever released on the Genesis with an extra chip in the cartridge (Virtua Racing).

>> No.3904709

>>3887602
that paprium music is straight from the game. they're using a pcm sound expansion though