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/vr/ - Retro Games

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3864959 No.3864959 [Reply] [Original]

Is he right?

>> No.3864964

Well, yeah, CRTs can't be emulated (for example, how do you emulate being able to see scanlines from closeup, but a more seamless image if you look from afar? emus "scanlines" shaders always display the scanlines, the effect is not the same), if you're gonna emulate on an HD screen, just go raw pixels.

Carmack is a faggot though.

>> No.3864978

>>3864959
Well, it's an opinion. One that I agree with 100%, but I don't see the point in judging the guy on a statement as inoffensive as that one.

>> No.3864984

Games back then have clearly been made with crt displays in mind. Just look at the lamps in the mine levels of DKC. Withour shaders the area around them gets gradually brighter in rectangular shapes. Apply a crt shader and you will have nice looking halos around the lamps.

>> No.3864993

>>3864959
was carmack even much of a gamer? he seems more into the programming aspects than actually playing games.

>> No.3865014

>>3864993
This.

I'd rather suck down Romero's opinion on this particular subject.

>> No.3865039

>>3864959

Carmack is an autist, and a programmer. He never even really played games.

>> No.3865053

Did Carmack steal CRT code for the Oculus?

>> No.3865060

>>3864959
>PC developer doesn't understand CRTs

What's the surprise? It's a console thing, not a computer thing. CRT monitors didn't even have visible scanlines running 480p on a 12'' screen.

>> No.3865067

>>3865060
>implying that scanlines are a good thing

>> No.3865087

>>3865039
>>3864993
When he played, he focused on the actual game, not retarded secondary shit.

>> No.3865098

>the doom genius can't even find a knob

>> No.3865106

>crt autists

>> No.3865171

>>3864959
Yes anon, he is right. He does, in fact, rather like the crisp pixels.

>> No.3865174
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3865174

>>3864959
ITT: People too poor/stupid to get a top rank CRT mock real enthusiasts.

>> No.3865253

>>3864959
What does it matter if he's right or not? That's all subjective anyway. Computer monitors always used a different refresh rate and resolution than cathode ray televisions and most /vr/ consoles send a resolution that's too low for most screens in this day and age anyway.

It depends on what platform you want to play. Getting the best of both worlds is what I would do but if you really got to choose between one of the two then pick the one platform you're playing games on the most.

>> No.3865745

>>3864964
>Carmack is a faggot though

Do you want the cross? because that is how you get the cross

>> No.3865790

>>3865745
rage happened

>> No.3865829
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3865829

>> No.3865834

>>3864959
You'd think that, as a programmer, he's acknowledge the tricks early devs used to trick CRTs into performing transparency effects by abusing scan line refresh rates, and that they can't be reproduced on modern flat panel displays.

>> No.3865848

He's absolutely right, either play on a CRT or play it clean. You can never replicate how one screen looks on a different screen, it's fucking stupid.

>> No.3865861

>>3865848
once holographic displays become a thing, you will be able to perfectly replicate any model of CRT. It will be better than the real thing, by benefit of using real light beams, you'll easily be able to reproduce the bleeding pixels, blurriness, and warm glow of a real CRT in open air.

Until then, we're stuck with aging CRTs.

>> No.3865873

>>3864978
/thread

>> No.3865879

>>3865171
>>3865253
(also thread. Hehe)

>> No.3865882

>crt artifacts

>> No.3865886

>>3864959
Not really, although it depends on what exactly you're emulating, and what you're emulating it on. I prefer a minor blurring filter because sharp pixels looks terrible when blown up. That's for sprite based stuff though. Polygons, jack that shit up and just deal with the low res textures and low poly models, unless you're dealing with prerendered backgrounds, which also look like ass.

>> No.3865912

>>3865834
Emulators reproduce these tricks?

>> No.3866158

>>3864959
Yes. He likes crisp pixels. He's right about the fact he likes that.

Did you have a real question or point?

>> No.3866164

>twitter threads

I thought I was safe from those when I left /v/

>> No.3866480

>>3865834
Weren't those effects mostly the result of composite/RF signal artifacts?

>> No.3867190

>>3864959
No he's wrong. He really did get it but is lying. He doesn't like the crisp pixels. He hates them. He prefers blurry RF signals on a CRT.

>> No.3867205

>>3866480
some but not all.

>> No.3867206

>>3865848
fucking this

>> No.3867219

>>3865848
This.

>> No.3867318

>>3864993
Yes. I don't know where the meme started that he wasn't but you can even go read up on his posts from 99 about balancing Q3A and whether or not strafe jumping should be allowed. He clearly was involved in more than just working on the engine.

>> No.3867325
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3867325

i like clean pixels, but you need to have the shitty blur of a crt to get fake transparencies. sometimes it was also used to create new colors.

>> No.3867327

>>3867325
Dithering never bothered me. At least it's the lesser evil than blurring the entire game.

>> No.3867470

Depends on the game :^}

>> No.3867620

>>3867325
Is there even another example or is it just Sanic?

>> No.3867664

>>3864964
>for example, how do you emulate being able to see scanlines from closeup, but a more seamless image if you look from afar

wait for high enough resolution monitors to become cheaper
My monitor is at 2560 * 1440, so at best for a 320x240 game I have an 8px by 6px area to draw three phosphors and scanlines or shadow mask in

At 5120 * 2880 you'll have a 16px by 12px area for each pixel and so on. As you increase the res you end up with more and more space to fake the crt with - obviously at this point it would be a huge money sink!

>> No.3867669

>>3867620

Most of the genesis library, especially the western developed games.

See Earthworm Jim and Vectorman for heavy use of dithering.

>> No.3867765

>>3867669
>most
That's pushing it. Probably 15-20% of western games.

>> No.3868020

>>3864964
Can VR headsets can solve that?

>> No.3868053

>>3865790
Rage was good though. Maybe their weakest game but still good in an era where singleplayer shooters are dead.

>> No.3868101

>>3864964
You just let the laws of physics deal with how lines look close up and far away.

>> No.3868215

>>3867664
It will only be a huge money sink for the first few years. My five inch phone has the same resolution as your monitor, and probably cost less than a decent monitor of that resolution did three years ago (and it's also a smartphone, on top of that.)

Displays with resolutions high enough for very realistic CRT shaders are only a few years away, and affordable ones are only a few years away from that.

The real setback for high resolution displays is a lack of content and therefore consumer demand. Until sitcoms can be streamed at those resolutions over Netflix with zero lag, there will be no profit incentive to make displays that size.

>> No.3869859

>>3868215
>your monitor is a smartphone with a 50" screen
FTFY

>> No.3869908

>>3867325
Use NTSC filter.

>> No.3869939

>>3864964
>emus "scanlines" shaders always display the scanlines,
So do CRTs. They don't think "shit, he's far away we can stop having scanlines now".

>> No.3870040

>>3864959
2D PS1 games like SotN and DW7 look great without CRT
NES games I think need it though
I switched over playing FF3 on RetroArch to Nestopia for the fast forward feature. Nestopia's CRT filter is shit, so I don't use it. After a long play session, my eyes actually had to get used to looking at the real world for a second.

>> No.3870085
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3870085

It's okay, Carmack. I still like you even if you're a pleb when it comes to displays. You've probably just been influenced by the demands of your Facebook overlords.

>> No.3870117

>>3870040
>SotN look great without CRT
Fuck no, its exactly the opposite. Highly stylized look of cartoony games may look ok with sharp pixels, but with detailed and relatevely realistic art of SotN pixelation stands out horribly,
Actually, it is SotN that drove me to use filters for the first time.

>> No.3870137

>>3869939
The thing is, it's still a shader, not an actual physical scanline like on CRT. Hence why the effect is totally different and you can still see the obvious "scanlines" on an emu filter displayed on an HD screen from afar.

>> No.3870420

>>3870085
He's right though filters are cancer.

>> No.3870460

>>3865174

>can only afford a $100 monitor

>> No.3870949

>>3870137
I still think it looks nice. And it can only improve with time, as resolutions get higher and shit.

>> No.3870952

>>3868053
carmack outright lied about pc version not being consolized

>> No.3873276

>>3864959
He's right because it's his opinion and what appeals to individual people will vary. I agree with him though.

>> No.3873296

>>3870949
more power, time and money tossed at a problem solved 30 years ago with a better display technology.

>>3870952
>consolized
you don't even know what that means

>> No.3873303

>>3873296
>with a better display technology.
Not everyone likes blur and bloom.

>> No.3874145

>>3870137
>The thing is, it's still a shader, not an actual physical scanline like on CRT. Hence why the effect is totally different and you can still see the obvious "scanlines" on an emu filter displayed on an HD screen from afar.

Shouldn't this point end the discussion? Also Carmack is past his prime listening to him is like listening to Inafune or Miyamoto. There are newer, smarter people out there.

>> No.3874160

>>3874145
neither Inafune or Miyamoto were tech people your comparison is retarded

>> No.3874180

>>3874160
even Wozniak has said a thousand retarded things in the last decade; go ahead search his name on youtube for a fun ride.

Please note that these people are past their prime and not as involved or ambitious (or rebellious) as they were when they were younger. There's no need to idolize anyone anyway.