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/vr/ - Retro Games


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3842052 No.3842052 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

>In 1985, artist Akira Yasuda (Akiman) showed up to a Capcom job interview dressed in pajamas and a tie. He left his portfolio at home, saying fans stole his work because it was too good. Asked why he chose pajamas, he replied he wanted to look presentable and that was the only thing he owned with a collar.
>Capcom developer Yoshiki Okamoto sat on the other side of the room, amused by Yasuda's antics. Okamoto, himself known for pranks and outlandish behavior, liked Yasuda's work.
>Yasuda got the job.
This is the coolest part about retro games, IMO. Games still had low budgets, and the creators could still have fun. Like hire a guy like Akiman or Kitamura. Or base a hero on their boss (see: Kunio-Kun, Takahashi Meijin). Or take a literal diagnosed sperg like Tajiri because he had ideas and was full of enthusiasm. Not to mention devs' personal sensibilities (see music/design in Doom, Chun-Li's thighs), countless easter eggs, etc.
Nowadays game companies are 1000 people sweatshops, with marketing division having all the creative control. The average budget per game ballooned from $50–300K in 4th gen to $60 million today. I think they wouldn't let Yasuda near the building.

>> No.3842350

http://www.polygon.com/a/street-fighter-2-oral-history

Great article.

>> No.3842358

>>3842350
don't read polygon, don't even visit the URL.
http://archive.is/WegtM

>> No.3842383

Parasol Stars
>The game was also planned for the Commodore 64, but it was cancelled as well. Ocean initially explained that the developer's computer was stolen in a burglary, but it was later revealed that the game was scrapped after the freelance developer's wife destroyed said computer in a drunken rage, along with the backups of the work.

Alberto Jose Gonzalez
>After finishing the game he noticed that the company was just a couple streets a way. He went there, showed them some sprites he drew, was hired and turned into the best chiptune artist ever.

>> No.3842950

>>3842052
>[Years later] we were working on Red Dead Revolver and we were in the same apartment. And he basically always slept in the closet when there was a huge bed in his room. I just saw his legs coming out of the closet. And I asked him, why is that? And he felt much more peace of mind when he slept in the closet. ...

>In some of the rooms [in Capcom's game Resident Evil], you would see a really dirty, beaten up toilet or bathroom or something. ... That's the kind of place he lived in. And he continued that way for a month or two months. And then he started cleaning his room like a maniac. He's a crazy guy. He just cleaned it like 100%, just so perfectly clean. And then he started making trash again. So that's kind of his lifestyle. And he also does the same with his diet. He keeps eating and eating — he's like a pig, right? Then one day he starts all the exercises and the diets like crazy and gets back to normal shape.

>> No.3842956

>>3842052
you hit it on the head man. there is a special ethereal something about the late 80s early 90s games. small team + japanese culture a big part of it

>> No.3843031

>>3842358
wow thanks for the link that takes 30 minutes to load. how about we just use an adblocker and/or tracking blocker and go wherever we want?

>> No.3843131

>>3842956
Why you must never be ashamed to be a 80's- 90's nostalgia creep. The rest of that era excluding better climate and a non-retarded burgerstanada tho...

>> No.3843421

>>3842358
I'm fine with visiting the site if it's for something good. It's almost like rewarding good behavior.

>> No.3843423

>>3842350

see

>>3842358

>> No.3843438

>>3843131
it was very early childhood years. games felt like a blessing ... I distinctly remember being amazed by the graphics/artstyle of chrono trigger. Best explanation i can give atm

>> No.3843480

if small team + low budget is the key to good games, why hasn't the indie scene produced anything good since cave story?

>> No.3843508

Cave story is was barely a game

>> No.3843872

>>3842052

okamoto, funamitsu, akiman, nishtani... when they left capcom turned to shit. Capcom owes these guys everything.

>> No.3843879

Even less organised and more interesting was the British game coding scene.

>> No.3843880

>>3843480
you didn't like Shovel Knight?

>> No.3843885

>>3843880
I'm not into meme games.

>> No.3843887

>>3843885
You're missing out.

>> No.3843889

>>3843480
>contrarian

>> No.3843892

>>3843480
Because production costs were still a barrier to entry, so not every idiot could get their game on the market. There's plenty of good indie stuff, its just buried under so much fucking garbage

>> No.3843897

>>3843892
Games were really cheap to make on cassette.

>> No.3843901

>>3843897
Still costed more and took more effort than getting a game on steam

>> No.3843905

>>3843901
You could just put the BASIC code in a fan magazine.

>> No.3843908

>>3843905
There's a clear difference between a commercial release and code in a fan magazine
Not to mention the OP was clearly talking about japanese games which were all on consoles

>> No.3843915

>>3843908
Were they? Why are Japs so shit with tech?

>> No.3843937

>>3843480
because nobody really knows what they're doing.

>> No.3843960

>>3843897
Point proven. There were far more, far shittier games on cassette based computers than there are in the indie scene today

>> No.3843972

>>3843880
Shovel Knight isn't very good.

>> No.3843984

>>3843480

I know we have to maintain our anonymous nerd cred but there actually has been some really good indie games over the last few years, they just don't come out in the double digits for any year.

>> No.3843987
File: 76 KB, 960x768, video game budget 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3843987

>>3843480
Because indie games are still cheaply made with insufficient an unqualified staff.
We started talking about Street Fighter II; the game's budget is estimated by some at $2.5 million, roughly—that's just for paying the staff (!). That's above the average even by 5th gen standards. For 4th gen, the average game budget was around $50–300K; and "average" means average game, from mahjong to movie tie-in.
Now take a look at indie games, and it quickly becomes obvious they get way less than that from Kickstarters. Simply put, at 10–50K$, how many people can you pay and for how long? Can you afford a team of at least 10 people for a year on that amount? I guess the sane answer is, "you can only get 1 person for 3 months or so".
And it's not Apple II times we live in: Richard Garriott could have doodled Ultima enemies by himself, but ever since NES, nearly no good games were made by single inexperienced devs, they had separate people for planning, programming, music, character design, etc. The project sizes have only grown with years.
And indie games have what? 1–2 artists barely qualified in code, and often with NO IDEA of game design—let alone any experience in it. They need to be jacks of all trades: make levels, draw characters, program, and all that—and all in a matter of a few months (unless you want to live for your kickstarter money the whole year). Subsequently, their games look like rushed sprite packs with some semblance of a game attached, put up by a total amateur as training. Which is what they actually are.
Last but not least: most indie games don't make much money at what they sell; they can't ask $50 for their games. Their situation is not like on NES or SNES, it's more like Spectrum or Amiga: games are sold for very cheap (way below $50), while piracy is a big issue.
So it's no wonder you get quality on Amiga level or lower.

>> No.3844001

>>3843480
To put it shortly: not even in NES times games were made by single devs. At what indie games costs/sell for, their creators cut all the corners and make games as quickly and low effort as possible. Only totally committed enthusiasts can devote all their time and effort to it, but they are very few and far between.

>> No.3844003 [DELETED] 

>>3843987
Fuck off with your Apple shit, faggot. Why do yanks suck Apple's dick so much?
>inb4 it was in le schools
We had BBC Micros in our schools and no one gives a right toss about them.

>> No.3844005

>>3844003
why can't you communicate like a human being

>> No.3844010

>>3844005
This is how humans speak outside of your plastic country.

>> No.3844017

>>3844003
You havin a violence fit m8?
My point was, Apple II had great games developed by literally 1–2 people: Wizardry, Ultima and Might & Magic, just to name a few. But this was in the era when games were by far less complex. First and foremost, they had very basic graphics—hence Wizardry's monsters could be simply doodled. Also, these 3 games built on already existing tabletop games; the game design was still pretty basic at the time, and also, they didn't focus much on plot/atmosphere. You can see that even in NES era, this wasn't the case anymore.

>> No.3844019

>>3844017
The C64 was more powerful than the Nes yet it had a multitude of games by single coders. The Amiga was more powerful than the Snes and had games by single designers.
Maybe Americans just weren't very good at coding.

>> No.3844020
File: 62 KB, 853x480, trainspotting begbie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844020

>>3844010
(you)

>> No.3844028

There are still games that happen to come out of small tight-knit teams.
They're just the exception nowadays.

>> No.3844030

>>3844019
>The C64 was more powerful than the Nes
I can smell the rotten teeth from here

>The Amiga was more powerful than the Snes and had games by single designers.
That's why I mentioned Amiga quality™

>> No.3844031

>>3844028
Lots of mobile phone games are made by a small team or one person.

>> No.3844035

>>3844031
Yes but mobile games are shit.
I won't post the examples because it'll turn into a shitshow, but either you know what I mean or you don't.

>> No.3844036

>>3844030
>I can smell the rotten teeth from here
How can anyone say the Nes is more powerful than the C64? That's ludicrous.
>That's why I mentioned Amiga quality™
As opposed to the great shit Nintendo put out, right? lmao

>> No.3844038

>>3844035
>Yes but mobile games are shit.
That doesn't mean they're not games. If you only like AAA games why are you complaining about the lack of indie games?

>> No.3844041

>>3844038
I'm not complaining about the lack of indie games.
My initial point was that OP is right and that generally small to mid sized teams allow for more individual creativity and more fun games.
How does me not liking mobile games mean I only like AAA games, is English a new language for you?

>> No.3844043

>>3844028
Yep, see >>3844001

You can go some way on enthusiasm alone. But that means you still need day job. Book writers can maybe settle for this, but with big commitment project like a game it's too hard.

>> No.3844046

>>3844041
So why are you bitching about all mobile phone games being bad? That contradicts your supposed aforementioned point.

>> No.3844050

>>3844046
It doesn't.
It's a different market, good games don't sell on mobile, skinner boxes do.
Also the platform being absolute ass for usability doesn't help. Developing mobile games is hell.

>> No.3844053

>>3844043
But people have never stopped making games by themselves for little to no pay. That claim is totally false. Just because a console with obscure development tools that charged publishers a premium just to have the honour of putting a game on their system didn't have an active indie scene in 1986 doesn't mean that more accessible machines didn't.
As long as there has been a way to make games people have made them independently of financing companies.

>> No.3844058

>>3844050
>good games don't sell on mobile
That is totally irrelevant, as you made a statement of quality saying
>Yes but mobile games are shit.
So you're contradicting yourself by saying that good games exist to not sell on the platform.
>Also the platform being absolute ass for usability doesn't help. Developing mobile games is hell.
Irrelevant. Just retract your statement that phone games are shit.

>> No.3844061

>>3844031
When mobile game copy each other to a T and resort to DLC and IAP for profit, you know they are even worse than AAA.

>> No.3844062

>>3844061
That doesn't go against anything I've said.

>> No.3844068
File: 4 KB, 194x259, Strawman.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844068

>>3844038
3 strawmen in one post! Combo!
>That doesn't mean they're not games.
No one implied otherwise.
> If you only like AAA games
There's a difference between AAA Hollywood and small yo mid-size old games.
> why are you complaining about the lack of indie games?
Not lack, quality.

>> No.3844078

>>3844068
>No one implied otherwise.
Yes they did. To say they shouldn't be considered with games because you don't like them is implying they aren't truly games.
>There's a difference between AAA Hollywood and small yo mid-size old games.
Then stop acting like every game has to be made by some big time arcade publisher.
>Not lack, quality.
That's your personal taste.

>> No.3844079

>>3843987
>Because indie games are still cheaply made with insufficient an unqualified staff.
Cave Story was made by one person. Touhou is made by one person.

>So it's no wonder you get quality on Amiga level or lower.
If only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWrGA-g17qg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1R7Pd329Bc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubwuJGS-Jxg

>> No.3844080

>>3844053
>But people have never stopped making games by themselves for little to no pay.
Yes they didn't. The problem is, what comes out is usually not worthy of mentioning.

>> No.3844081

>>3844058
>>3844078
I don't know what you're smoking but I can assure you it's some good shit.

>> No.3844082

>>3844080
>The problem is, what comes out is usually not worthy of mentioning.
In what way? Because you aren't aware of anything outside of the most popular Japanese consoles?

>> No.3844087
File: 42 KB, 640x400, 48696-castlevania-amiga-screenshot-what-happened-to-him.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844087

>>3844079
>Cave Story was made by one person. Touhou is made by one person.
That's why they're called exceptions from the rule.
>>3844078
>Yes they did.
He said "they're shit" and he was right.
>Then stop acting like every game has to be made by some big time arcade publisher.
>That's your personal taste.
That's what every person outside of the Amiga bubble agrees upon, for a very good reason.

>> No.3844091
File: 3 KB, 253x237, Dr._Jekyll_and_Mr._Hyde_NES_game_screenshot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844091

>>3844087
>He said "they're shit" and he was right.
And he dismissed them as not in the same class as other games.
>That's what every person outside of the Amiga bubble agrees upon, for a very good reason.
They agree that it's your taste?

>> No.3844094

>>3844082
1 strawman is enough bro. Do you understand what "exception proves the rule" means? Please name me your dozens of console-quality games made for free by enthusiasts. Don't mention Touhou, Cave Story, Yume Nikki, Knytt and AM2R.

>> No.3844097

>>3844091
>And he dismissed them as not in the same class as other games.
And was objectively right, because free-to-play cookie clickers on a platform without buttons are not in the same class as normal console video games since NES times.
>They agree that it's your taste?
Yuropeans always imply every thread is about themselves

>> No.3844103

>>3844097
>And was objectively right, because free-to-play cookie clickers on a platform without buttons are not in the same class as normal console video games since NES times.
Why? They're still games.
>Yuropeans always imply every thread is about themselves
Yankees think every thread is about Jap shit.

>> No.3844107

>>3844094
You clearly just only like Japanese console games.

>> No.3844116

>>3844107
Why, yes. Also PC games too. Are you surprised about such an uncommon taste for /vr/? I'd care about Western consoles if all of them didn't flop for some reason.

>> No.3844131

>>3844116
What about western HCs?

>> No.3844138

>>3844131
You mean home consoles? They've been forgotten for a reason, you know

>> No.3844146

>>3844138
Home computers, home consoles are still popular.

>> No.3844157

>>3844146
They're alright when we're talking about good old RPGs, adventures and such. They also had some OK arcade ports and generally arcade style games. That's about as much as I can say

>> No.3844161

>>3844157
Which computers? The CPC had the best RPGs of any computer, including PCs.

>> No.3844196

>>3844087
What fucking "Amiga bubble" and what does it have to do with modern indie games?

>> No.3844210

>>3843885
>not into meme games
>likes cave story

>> No.3844216

>>3844210
I don't like cave story.

>> No.3844334

>I've been told I was fired twice in my career. First, back when I was working at Konami [in the '80s], I was supposed to make a driving game but instead I made a shooter: Time Pilot. [That later contributed to them firing me].
>Then the second time was when we were making Street Fighter [2]. I was having an argument with my boss, Mr. Sakai. The argument was really heating up and I threw my pencil at him and hit his forehead. ... I was sure I was right in the argument, but since I threw my pencil at my boss I acknowledged I was wrong. So I went to [Capcom president and founder] Mr. Tsujimoto and asked him to put me in the sales division instead of the development division ... though that didn't end up happening. They actually put Mr. Sakai in the sales division instead.
I'm getting a feeling that Capcom was just hiring freaks in the '80s

>> No.3844376

>>3842052
>Games still had low budgets

Have you not noticed that "indie games" are massive now? That's basically the same as these early developers where it's just a handful of people making games for the fun of it. The great thing is that these days there's room for everyone. Huge multi-million dollar games with teams of hundreds get made and are successful and tiny creative games made by just a couple people can get made and be creative.

You can go for big budget refinements or indie experimentation and no matter what you choose to spend your time on there's tons of options.

Gaming is so fucking awesome.

>> No.3844420

>>3844376
I really wish I could share your enthusiasm.

>> No.3844423

>>3844376
No it's not, and don't try to play smart when you say something so dumb.
Indie/mobile is shit because they have no skill and shit out games aimed at quickest profit. AAA games are shit because they're Hollywood movies, rehashing literally the same concepts as 20 years ago but with better graphics. What's left good only proves the rule, you get one good game in years like Dark Souls or AM2R and everyone treats it like a miracle.
Video games have been in a rat race for better graphics for their whole story. While it opened new possibilities in the beginning, it has done nothing but inflated game making cost over 20 times just in the last 20 years. And the market is only ready to pay for better graphics, because it's been trained to do so over 8 generations of consoles. So small games can only compete in budget category, meaning they will forever stick with shovelware. No one cares about ideas anymore; old industry visionaries have long been fired, quit or formed their own barely thriving studios.

>> No.3844431

>>3843480
>why hasn't the indie scene produced anything good since cave story?

>Risk of Rain
>Spelunky
>La Mulana
>Shovel Knight
>Salt and Sanctuary
>Hotline Miami
>Resogun

>Bad

Maybe because you don't like good games, the indie scene is getting better and better.
I'm playing more indies than big names nowadays since at least four years, it's like we're back in the 80's when everyone could pick up a C64 and make a game, it's wonderful.

>> No.3844434

>>3844423
>Indie/mobile is shit because they have no skill and shit out games aimed at quickest profit.

I think you have a very limited experience with them. I play many small budget games I really enjoy and was happy I played. Sure there are also endless Candy Crush clones but those are easy for me not to play.

My main problem these days with gaming is that I don't have enough time to play everything that I want to, not that there's not enough to play.

>No one cares about ideas anymore
This is what I fundamentally disagree with most. I look around and see tons of people who are trying out all kinds of new things and I love it.

>>3844420
It's sad to me that so many can't. I think it's amazing.

>> No.3844448

>>3844434
>I think it's amazing.
Good for you. Take your silly hippie ass out of here. If you don't know what's bad about modern gaming, you don't know what's good about retro gaming. Try to make actual arguments, except on some other board.

>> No.3844453

>>3844431
>It's like we're back in the 80's when everyone could pick up a C64 and make a game
The horror. The last thing I wanted is for that atrocity to come back from the grave. Can't wait for indie game market crash
>I'm playing more indies than big names nowadays since at least four years
Ah, I see, nothing to argue about here anymore. If you had any brains, you'd know that the only worthwhile things now are 3DS and PSV, maybe with some occasional Japanese PS4 titles.

>> No.3844456

>>3844448
Why does it upset you so much that not everyone is as miserable as you? That you actually have to toss insults around and get upset because I happen to still like games.

What's crazy is that so many of the old games that get praised here are basically "indie games" and everyone loves them.

>> No.3844471

>>3844456
You can like what you like, that's not my problem. My problem is that you try to sell me and other people on the idea that all those games are good, based entirely on subjectivity and authority of others, like "I like this" and "I know many people who like this". You show that you absolutely know nothing about games and don't make a single factual claim about game design, graphics, or anything of sorts. Your empty replies just show how really vapid you are to even try and engage in an argument.
You are the one saying "why don't you like what I like"? It's you who just can't take it that people don't like indie. That's what makes you a pansy faggot, imagine that. And you will get called this a lot more because you act like a pansy faggot. Keep your shit taste to yourself, just don't argue about what you know shit about and then pretend your personal shitty opinion must be respected.

>> No.3844481

>>3844431
Alwa's Awakening, Creepy Castle, Odallus, the entire Touhou franchise, everything by Klei...

>> No.3844482

>>3844453
>The last thing I wanted is for that atrocity to come back from the grave.
So you want games to be exclusively made by corporations? Enjoy your movies I guess, I am much happier with more and more people having access to the medium, and it was all for the better really, no day one 20GB patches, wide availability on almost any platform and focus on gameplay first and story second.
>If you had any brains, you'd know that the only worthwhile things now are 3DS and PSV
In fact I play 90% of my games on my Vita, many of those are indies, actually, all of my western games on it are indies, the 3DS is a MH machine and it's totally irrelevant in anything else when the Vita outclasses it in any genre, for all the rest there's my PC.

I don't really get your hate towards indies, they're literally the new generation of devs in the making, how do you think people like Garriot, Romero and the rest worked back in the days? Hacking away as indies.

>> No.3844484

>>3844068
There isn't, AAA doesn't mean anything, and until someone lays down a concrete definition it's a pedophile shill's favorite term

>> No.3844496

>>3844471
>My problem is that you try to sell me and other people on the idea that all those games are good

Actually maybe that's the problem. I don't try to sell people on those games. I am not interested in trying to convince anyone they should like any sort of game.

Any time I mention this it's actually in response to people like you who go on and on about how all games now suck and the industry is dead. I chime in to say that as someone who has been actively gaming for almost all of my 40+ years I still find a ton of new games I love playing.

And I have, in the past tried making actual conversation about how I think gameplay has come a long way and the incredible variety in games these days. But all I ever get back is insults (usually kid, cuck, pussy, faggot etc) because I have a different opinion. Then I'm told to leave and keep my opinion to myself.

Well sorry, but I'm not going anywhere and your vague insults aren't a real argument. It's just meaningless drivel. I don't know why you expect anyone to take you seriously when you can't even talk like a normal person.

>> No.3844501

>>3844482
>So you want games to be exclusively made by corporations?

No because he thinks those are even worse. Basically he thinks they should just stop making games period because they will never live up to what he wants them to be.

>> No.3844539

>>3844482
>So you want games to be exclusively made by corporations?
Aaand we're back to strawman arguments. Did you actually read the thread?
>In fact I play 90% of my games on my Vita, many of those are indies, actually, all of my western games on it are indies, the 3DS is a MH machine and it's totally irrelevant in anything else when the Vita outclasses it in any genre, for all the rest there's my PC.
Wow, I only had to pinch a little, and you just bursted with your shit laughable opinions. What a normie westaboo. Go back to /v/, you only fit in there.
>>3844496
> muh 40 years experience proves muh authority
>you're wrong, because I like new games!
No one asked if you have games or not. You're dumb enough for 40+ year old manchild to not know what's an "anecdote" and "appeal to authority".
> I don't try to sell people on those games.
You try to sell them on the idea that new games are all objectively wonderful and if they don't like them they're miserable in your overly smart head.
>I have a different opinion
No, you think you're a special snowflake. Also, you've made another fallacy. You push your subjective feels like some objective argument and expect respect for it. You get none and blame others, because in your head you're sooo right.
In fact, that's exactly why you needed tomention that you're over 40, just to have some weight to your pathetic non-arguments. It's you who are truly miserable, you're simply in denial and that's why you keep your own reality in your head where you're always right.

>> No.3844551

>>3844501
You can put dicks in your own mouth, but you shouldn't put words in others'. Anyway, what you reply to is a strawman argument, made by some buttblasted opinionated fag who thinks everyone should like what he likes.

>> No.3844565

>>3844539

I'm not the guy you're arguing with, but I hope you realise that all of this stuff you're accusing him of is especially true of you. You're the one insisting that no new game is good and that there hasn't been a single good indie game since cave story. It's you forcing your subjective opinions as if they're subjective facts.

And honestly, the whole thing is extremely transparent too. How many of the indie games that people have reccomended as good examples have you actually played? How many newer indie games have you played in general? I'd bet my left nut that the only reason that you think that cave story was the last good one is because it's the last one you actually played and you refuse to play any of the newer ones, probably out of contrarianism. Don't go acting like the dude you're arguing with is in the wrong here for calling you out on this shit. You're coming into this thread and making this massive blanket statement about years and years worth of indie games of various different genres and from different devs and insisting that every single one of them is bad. This kinda absolutism reminds me of when I was a teenager and everything either sucked total balls or was, like, the best thing evar. It's a worthless, childish outlook and you're not actually impressing anyone by acting like some uber-purist who venerates everything retro and despises everything new.

>> No.3844568

>>3842052
Speaking of Akiman, I was aboutto start a show he did designs for.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p9m3LOUzZs4

>> No.3844582

>>3844539
>You try to sell them on the idea that new games are all objectively wonderful and if they don't like them they're miserable in your overly smart head.

All I get from this is you can't read because I don't say anything of the sort. There are plenty of not great games now, the same way there were plenty of not great games in the 80's and 90's. But there are also many great games and those are the ones I care about.

>No, you think you're a special snowflake.
I actually don't think I'm special at all. Tons and tons of people still love games and like many games that are being made now.

I think I am right because I am talking about my personal experience. I have always loved video games, I still love video games and there hasn't been a single year that's gone by when at least a few new games have come out that I love.

The only reason I now mention my age is how often that is called out and I'm so tired of it I now stick it up front.

Again, you don't have to like modern games. That's fine by me. But if you try speaking on my behalf, implying no one likes modern games I am going to disagree.

Speak for yourself and your own opinions not everyone else and we're all good. But don't try to tell me that my personal experience is meaningless and to shut up just because it's different from yours.

>> No.3844586
File: 189 KB, 298x450, a003c500fa55466f3ddf173ead128e59.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844586

>>3842052
love akiman.
dude is living the dream

>> No.3844595

>>3844539
>Aaand we're back to strawman arguments.
No we're not, you don't play indies yet you say they're garbage, the only one pulling strawmen here is you. If you don't play indies then you either play exclusively big names or you don't play at all.
>What a normie westaboo.
I know japanese, my main account is a JP PSN and as I told you before, the only western games on my Vita are Indies, indies are the only western thing I play excluding retro stuff.
And the only one who belongs in /v/ is you, given your /r9k/ lingo and hate for videogames
You don't even have a point and it shows since you bring nothing to the discussion but pathetic efforts in criticizing an argument's form instead of its point.

You're the kind of sad folk who'd dismiss a game on petty reasons such as its engine or who made it, there's plenty of capable people who do great stuff with next to nothing.

>> No.3844601

>>3844565
>I'm not the guy you're arguing with, but I hope you realise that all of this stuff you're accusing him of is especially true of you. You're the one insisting that no new game is good and that there hasn't been a single good indie game since cave story. It's you forcing your subjective opinions as if they're subjective facts.
That's probably different people in this thread you're taking me for. I actually didn't speak much bad here about indie games, more on Amiga and C64.
Really, my point is, there are good games still being made. I even have guilty pleasure indie games I won't name. I was talking more about bad trends in games, and the general drought of BIG good games driven by new ideas.
I actually backed all of my statements with facts. That $100 mln budget mark is when the creators take the back sit, and marketing division comes in the front. It's when they start focus group testing, measuring market and generally playing it extremely safe. The industry is literally the second Hollywood now.
I also know from others' testaments that most indie games are made for profit first now. The key word: "first". Every game is made for money, and only some part of it is for art (let's call it that); but when it's 99% for quick money from Kickstarters, 1% "I like Outrun", it just doesn't feel like old Capcom games I brought up.
> How many of the indie games that people have reccomended as good examples have you actually played? How many newer indie games have you played in general?
Not many, several Outrun clones and other '80s games, Sword and Sworcery, some other stuff. Of everything, perhaps I liked Ridiculous Fishing the most, but even then it was meh to me.
But again, I really only reflected on the majority of indie games, the bad ones. Of course there will be good ones, even great ones. I was just reflecting on the state of things today and the current market conditions, where it's either AAA or indie and both aren't having it too well.

>> No.3844608

>>3844568
Good to know Akiman's active.

>> No.3844614

Good HR people hire oddballs all the time, so long as it is not for a public facing role.

>> No.3844615

>>3844601
>I was just reflecting on the state of things today and the current market conditions, where it's either AAA or indie and both aren't having it too well.

Again that's your opinion, and it's fine to have that opinion. But not everyone agrees. I think the gaming market is generally better now than it was in the 80's and 90's. Far more in terms of volume and variety in terms of genres.

Even if there is a worse ratio of good to bad games (which I don't think there is) the amount of different ones and different types makes up for it.

>> No.3844617
File: 631 KB, 800x1122, akiman_sensei00.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844617

>>3844608
guy still does art for SF.
so yeah he gets paid to draw his waifu/daughter

>> No.3844695

>>3844615
>But not everyone agrees.
That's why I said "reflected". I just stated my own point of view, simply communicated it to others. I'm not in a need to impose my point of view on others, neither am I defensive of it. It's just my own personal view, my own observation I hoped to share with /vr/ in hope other people might relate.
Then that other guy came by and apparently he understood it that someone didn't like what he liked. So he needed to insert his preachy advice that we just need to keep an open mind and keep positive about things. People like this annoy me a lot, so I just decided to piss him off for fun. And well, I got my share of it.

>> No.3844702

>>3844695
> I'm not in a need to impose my point of view on others

Sure, which is why when I disagree you say 'Take your silly hippie ass out of here. If you don't know what's bad about modern gaming, you don't know what's good about retro gaming."
" That's what makes you a pansy faggot, imagine that. And you will get called this a lot more because you act like a pansy faggot."

>> No.3844709
File: 18 KB, 194x214, 1328818023204.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844709

>>3844617
>those hips&thighs
Truly, a man with the right priorities

>> No.3844717
File: 10 KB, 320x213, fishing1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844717

>>3844695
Your butthurt entertains me.

>> No.3844721

>>3844702
Because that self-righteous attitude is annoying. The guy's obviously in belief he has some authority and therefore he must be respected. I have 0 problem with his personal taste, only with his attitude.
And in case you forgot, we're on 4chan. If you took the whole conversation too seriously, I wonder how you even browse the site.

>> No.3844728

>>3844003
sup australia-kun, missed u bb ;)

>> No.3844739

>>3844721
How is it even self-righteous? I'm just giving my opinion and that I strongly disagree with his and that makes him lose his shit and start spewing random insults.

All I really pointed out initially was that OP was wrong about modern game budgets because of the massive market of independent games.

Then he had a tantrum when I didn't agree all indie games were as shit as he thought.

And yeah, this is 4chan, you can swear if you want. But if your only real argument is weak insults and child tier shitposting I'm not going to take anything you say seriously.

>> No.3844751

>>3842052
And half of those ridiculous 50+ million budgets are just for marketing suits to line their pockets with

>> No.3844771

>>3844751
I think you have an extremely limited understanding of what is involved in game development and marketing. Possibly economics in general.

>> No.3844808
File: 55 KB, 477x421, yoko and akiman.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3844808

>>3844709
indeed.
apparently he almost caused the game to get delayed just to get chun-li's legs just right.

>> No.3844824

>>3844808
I find strong thighs extremely attractive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvZwYadmgPw

>> No.3844972

>>3842052
There's a series of books about the history of Japanese game development since the 70s and I'm pretty sure you can find it on LibGen (if your post wasn't lifted from one of those books in the first place, since I haven't yet read then).

>> No.3845003

>>3844972
vola<delete_this>file (dot) io/r/ahdx06m0

The spam filter is retarded, Jesus Christ. Delete the brackets and the spaces around "(dot)" and put an actual dot there.

It's not on LibGen, but I had good things happen to me today so I want to pass the good karma. Here are two of Szczepaniak's books on Japanese game dev. Volume 2 is still uploading, so check back in around 30 seconds.

>> No.3845006
File: 11 KB, 356x27, VolaFile.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3845006

>>3845003
Alternatively, see pic related.

>> No.3845017

If an indie developer did that, /v/ would call them pretentious and accuse the company of being too cliquey.

>> No.3845093

>>3845003
Thanks, anon

>> No.3845115

>>3845017
If small devs had money to hire better staff, I'd wholeheartedly welcome that.

>> No.3845226

>>3845115
If small devs didn't spend all their money smoking pot when they should have been attending classes at the art school their parents were paying for they'd have money and wouldn't need it to hire better staff because they'd have skills.

>> No.3845550

Recommend me a good weapon pack.

>> No.3845570

>>3843480
do not compare "indie games" to doujin games

>> No.3845579

>>3845570
make me faget

>> No.3845595

>>3843480
Cave Story isn't even that good.

>> No.3845694

>>3844471
Why are you so bitter?

>> No.3845706

>>3842383
>Alberto Jose Gonzalez
>best ever

Fuck off, Alberto. Dumb bitch.

>> No.3845817

>>3845595
t. phil fish

>> No.3845921

>>3845694
To annoy butthurt crybabies like you

>> No.3845931

>>3842052
$50mil 100 people team AAA games are only necessary for games that try to use photorealistic graphics. You can always make a video game for free on a 1 man team easily.

>> No.3845943

>>3845921
"I'm 14" would have sufficed and would have taken less time for you to type.

>> No.3845949

>>3845931
>You can always make a video game for free on a 1 man team easily.
Go ahead, anon. Show me your dozens of free vidya games made in your spare time.
>inb4 "well of course I can't code, it's people who code should do this lol"

>> No.3845960

>>3845949
programming is a bitch to figure out but its not THAT hard if you watch videos and examples. Ive made shitty games I never finished before but I have nothing to show. What masturpieces have u made?

>> No.3845978

>>3845960
>its not THAT hard if you watch videos and examples.
>Ive made shitty games I never finished before but I have nothing to show.
It's almost like, you know, a definition of hypocricy. No offense intended
>What masturpieces have u made?
Me? None. But I never claimed "making a video game for free on a 1 man team" was easy.
The burden of proof lies on you. At least give examples of people who really make game after game, all for no charge. Not just half-assed attempts, but games of acceptable quality, which one would actually play (no puzzle game clones, etc). Like side-scrollers with actual sprites, or beat 'em ups, etc.

>> No.3845994

>>3845978
but dude a 5 year old can make a undertale/earthbound (retro) game clone. Indiedevs have no talent, they are lazy and want to get free money from donations.

>sprites
>side scrolling belt scrollers
not hard to make those. A retard could do it in a day for free. Thats why you see so many metroidvania indie megaman games shitted out of kickstarter.

>> No.3845997
File: 1.15 MB, 1360x840, doujin indie.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3845997

>>3843480
>if small team + low budget is the key to good games, why hasn't the indie scene produced anything good since cave story?
>indie scene
First mistake

>> No.3846000

>>3845997
doujin means indie in wapanese, there is no difference

>> No.3846003

>>3845994
>but dude a 5 year old can make a undertale/earthbound (retro) game clone.
Are you being sarcastic, or not? Because if you're not, how come have you not made anything like it? So by your own logic, you're worse than 5 year old?
>sprites
>side scrolling belt scrollers
>not hard to make those. A retard could do it in a day for free.
That's wrong. Making a good sprite pack by yourself takes a lot of time, it depends on quality/quantity but it can range from several days for most basic stuff to months. Making a good game can't take a day, period.
I think you have very confused idea of what it takes to make a game. No offense but you greatly oversimplify this task. If it was piss easy, you'd get way more great games made by enthusiasts.
>Indiedevs have no talent, they are lazy and want to get free money from donations.
> Thats why you see so many metroidvania indie megaman games shitted out of kickstarter.
That's not "for free". I don't like indie devs who work only for profit and I see many problems with most of these games, but thinking that making them takes no work and at least basic artist skills is wrong.

>> No.3846009

>>3846003
>Are you being sarcastic, or not? Because if you're not, how come have you not made anything like it? So by your own logic, you're worse than 5 year old?
i'm less interested in making a game than 5 year old

>> No.3846014
File: 30 KB, 599x134, s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3846014

>>3846000

>> No.3846015

>>3845997
touhou is shit

>> No.3846025
File: 8 KB, 581x666, GS Mikami smug.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3846025

>>3846014
So "doujin" means literally "samefag"?…

>> No.3846030

>>3846025
Still a more accurate translation than "independently published"

>> No.3846031

>>3846014
>fans or hobbyists who produce their own magazines, manga, software, etc.
if only there were an english term for that . . . .

>> No.3846034

>>3846031
Faggot.

>> No.3846036
File: 49 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3846036

>>3846034
Not an argument.

>> No.3846041
File: 107 KB, 1292x813, kamui panafill.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3846041

>>3846000

>doujin means indie in wapanese, there is no difference
indie game developers: beg for money, hype up your product, blog about very facet of development and your personal life, attract a cult of personality, release your game and become a rich internet celebrity.

Doujin game developers: spend years working on a project in silence or with occasional (technical) updates, release it, "This is my game. I hope you enjoy it."

>> No.3846047

>>3846041
Naw that is bullshit. Might be true for Cave Story but most doujin games are pantsu moe moe kawaii fests that sell on the cuteness of the main characters alone rather than quality.

>> No.3846048

>>3846041
so we agree they all make games independently. fantastic.

>> No.3846061

>>3846048
Not him, but IMO these words have come to have two different meanings, which reflect the big difference in their approach and the 2 "scenes". Anime is cartoons too, but there's a big difference between who makes them and for what target auditory. And that's why they've come to mean 2 different things. Same with the case of indie/doujin.

>> No.3846067

>>3846061
Only dweebs complain about anime not being cartoons.

>> No.3846068

>>3846061
>Anime is cartoons too, but there's a big difference between who makes them and for what target auditory
not any more, they're both for autistic permavirgins instead of children now

>> No.3846101

>>3844423
I'm sorry you're so fucking bitter at everything

>> No.3846102

>>3846003
maybe not in 1 day. but you make it sound like producing a quality game is impossible without a team of hipster. There are easy to use tools to make games easier today more than ever before. I agree it is nice to have 1 programmer and 1 artist but more than that is very unnecessary and can produce simple arcade type games. sure its hard and takes hours of dedication but is still possible.

>> No.3846143

>>3846102
Still it's not "a 5 year old/retard can do it in one day" kind of task. It's not a total hackjob/grabbing money for literally free. Yes, you can put up a quick and dirty game in relatively short time; but that's kinda my point—you need time to make an actual quality game. With level design, fleshed out ideas, etc. Not just "atmosphere", checklist of buzzword features and a pack of pixelated sprites looking nothing like actual retro consoles.
Sure, there are examples of indie games that got ridiculously popular, and it's easy to assume that all indie devs get money that easily. But it's not true at all. If your game doesn't become a meme, you're just the 10000th indie dev competing with the rest of the shovelware on an oversaturated market, striving for exposure.

>> No.3846382

>>3846041
Nice oversimplification.

>> No.3846393

>>3846041
>spend years working on a project in silence or with occasional (technical) updates, release it, "This is my game. I hope you enjoy it."
Tons of japanese big devs do that.

>> No.3846694

>>3846393
But it's not terrible if it's Japs doing it fucknuts.

>> No.3846773

>>3846041
fucking weeb.

>> No.3846849

>>3845931
>You can
Yes I can. I have a massive skill set and decades of experience. You'd be out of your depth in a puddle. That's why they start you off on an island in rpg maker. lol.

>> No.3846858

>>3846849
You're trying too hard Kiddo.

>> No.3846884

>>3846858
>>3846849
But he's right. I'm repeating myself, but a game isn't made in a day. You either:
a) forget about substance and rush the game, barely finishing the presentation and make a shallow, basic quick product—that's your commercial indie way;
b) Forget about profit altogether, and spend months or years for free on making your game at your expense—that's free game way.
Needless to say, the latter is not for everyone. I think most people actually choose hacking, RPGmaker etc. over making a game from the ground up for a very simple reason: making assets on your own takes a hell of a long time. From code to physics to sprites to bugtesting, it's just a load too heavy to lift alone.

>> No.3846924
File: 1.34 MB, 382x275, E5NTqQH.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3846924

>>3846884
Obviously, the amount of time and effort one puts into anything will show in the final product and games are no exception. I was really just mocking that guy's try hard troll attempt.

Either A or B could be an approach someone has to making a game though and more likely it's somewhere in between. A seems more about doing as a form of income and B is more doing as a passion project.

Pic related is a good blend between passion for something he wanted to do in specific while at the same time trying to make it profitable. It was unpopular with many, but those who liked what it was and was going for really liked it.

>> No.3846971

>>3846924
It's funny but many times in this thread I wanted to mention Fez as an example of how long it can take to develop a seemingly simple game. 5 years is no joke.
I agree with what you say though and that's why I always had big respect for Fez. The creators actually had an idea, and they balanced the commercial/passion project in the game with some degree of success.
But it's one of the very, very few indie games to reach success on its own terms. And with all its rocky story, the reception it got, and no promise of future games, it looks more like an exception that proves the rule.
Such is the long-overdue "indie/mobile gaming renaissance" that never actually happened. Media promised the new golden age, but what came of it was mostly cancerous fandom games and Angry Birds.

>> No.3846989
File: 135 KB, 1280x720, powmaxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3846989

>>3846971
Well I'm the guy who gets yelled at a lot because I tend to like a lot of indie games. But Fez does stand out from the crowd, and when you play it you can really see why it took 5 years to make.

But also I don't think every indie game needs to be or even necessarily should be like Fez. There are a ton of Roguelikes for example that are pretty bare bones or look unimpressive because they were just made by one guy in his spare time but they're very fun regardless.

Last time I was at one of my friend's house we played some physics based tetris block tower building game that where me, him, his wife and young daughter all played and had a blast with. It wasn't an amazing game on the level of a Fez, but it was cheap and great fun for an afternoon.

By the same token my own wife plays a lot of word scramble and Candy Crush clone games on her phone. Some of the word ones have actually been interesting and although I don't give a shit about the CC clones, she enjoys them. Most actual retro games she doesn't care for much unless they're other puzzlers like Dr Mario.

>> No.3847001

>>3846034
[email protected] you're life, anon

>> No.3847083

>>3846989
There's just one thing though: the games you listed are mostly clones in simple genres. I agree it's not necessary for a game to be unique or complex to be enjoyable; heck, I enjoyed a lot of similar clones on mobiles, and I'm glad I did.
But on the other hand, there's a reason why people complain so many titles on SNES are mahjong. These games are good to kill time, but they're the analog of pulp fiction in gaming. They aren't very memorable and get stale over time. And it would be cool if games were like books. But no one needs a company to write a full-fledged novel.
When there's either A or B, to produce something truly new and outstanding requires a miracle, pretty much. And it won't get better as the big game industry obviously demonstrates that it's the new Hollywood and it doesn't need any visionaries anymore. Kojima, Inafune, Iga, Mikami, Suzuki, Naka… The list goes on, and one is left to wonder who will leave next to create a studio making great games that go unnoticed.
So I imagine that occasionally we will see some El Mariachi rise from the gutter, and maybe some Spielberg making fun big-budget movies that everyone likes; but otherwise, it seems to me that the time of talented freaks making what they wanted has passed for video games, and it's pretty sad.

>> No.3847086

>>3846989

It's too bad that Fez is barely a game, and does not even have a game over state. All of that work and the author of that game stripped it of the most crucial parts of what makes a game good.

>> No.3847092

>>3844036
more colors, more colors per sprite without losing resolution, more than 1 button on the controller. less ram, arguably weaker sound chip (but more channels so it's easier to have music+sfx)

>> No.3848393

>>3847083
>but otherwise, it seems to me that the time of talented freaks making what they wanted has passed for video games, and it's pretty sad.

This is where I disagree with you the most actually. I think it's the polar opposite now with incredible amounts of innovation. There are tons of talented creative weirdos out there making things they want to make.

Even in niche genres. Every year now even just the 7 day roguelike challenge produces more and more weird and interesting stuff.

>>3847086
Fez is very much a game, it's just not a platormer, action game or Cave Story clone which is what a lot of people thought it was or thought it should have been. Really it's an exploration puzzle and cryptography game. Much closer to something like Myst than Cave Story or a platformer.


And I get why people hated it, it's an odd game. But for me it was a wonderful gem.

>> No.3848412

>>3846047
You should seriously consider psychiatric treatment for your "moe" hysteria.

>>3846061
Anime and cartoons have practically nothing to do with each other.

>>3846068
This is meme horseshit, completely detached from reality.

>> No.3848419

Thread should be a pinned one

>> No.3848471

>>3848393
>incredible amounts of innovation
Show me please. Maybe it's so in roguelikes, but admittedly I don't play them.
But I don't really see how it contradicts anything I've said. Yes, roguelikes, puzzles and such aren't graphics-heavy genres, they take less expenses and so more enthusiasts may attempt to make them on their own. Don't know how it is for commercial games though.

>> No.3848476 [DELETED] 

1985 was also the year of Japan Air Flight 123 :(

>> No.3848538
File: 102 KB, 512x384, 04_alphabounce.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3848538

>>3848471
>Show me please.
Even just look on Steam... if you don't see the wealth of creativity and variety we're either living in different worlds or talking completely different languages. And that's just one platform, as I mentioned my wife plays a ton of mobile games and I've even seem some interesting puzzle mechanics in Candy Crush clones.

Maybe you don't like those games, I mostly don't, but what I do like is that they're there for the people who do want them. You said yourself, looking the 16 bit libraries puzzlers and other genres were very limited. Some block dropping games and a ton of majong variants and not a heck of a lot else.

When I would try to find retro games my wife would dig there's not a ton that interests her, but every week or two she's playing something new on the tablet and some of them have even interested me.

Even some simple games that look like they were made in a week or two have been surprisingly fun or interesting. I don't know what else to say really... maybe we just fundamentally disagree.

>> No.3848813

>>3848538
And you provide a picture of what? A Breakout clone?
All of this stuff has been there for years on PC and mobiles, before iPhone and even internet—as shareware. All of those puzzlers "with a twist", the said Breakout clones, solitaire, etc. Do people remember any of that shareware today? Not really. Did it produce any important games? Few, if any. You could buy CDs packed to the brim with them.
I wouldn't call this "the wealth of creativity and variety". In fact, this indie feels like new shareware, except with better exposure. What's "creative" about following the very same basic formula? Was all the innovation of 3rd-6th game simply in vain? Are we forever stuck on cellphone-grade entertainment?
>When I would try to find retro games my wife would dig there's not a ton that interests her, but every week or two she's playing something new on the tablet and some of them have even interested me.
That's called casual gaming. Yes, a lot of people play solitaire and minesweeper all their life and they love it. My mother used to do it too. And?
If everything revolved around casual games, we wouldn't need /vr/. There's a reason people say getting Nintendo 64 or other console was the best moment of their life. Not playing another Breakout clone all over again.

>> No.3848827

>>3843480
because hipsters/sjws took it over

the old shareware "scene" in the 90s was AMAZING and Japanese "doujinsoft" developers have made countless awesome games

>> No.3848856

>>3848827
>the old shareware "scene" in the 90s was AMAZING
Examples pls. Doom/Heretic don't count.

>> No.3848889
File: 166 KB, 620x327, invisible inc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3848889

>>3848813
>That's called casual gaming.

Yeah and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That was a breakout clone, but it was a fun and interesting one, which is why I picked it. I have a feel it doesn't really matter what I picked you would have poo pooed it somehow.

But also clearly we're very different gamers. The N64 is one of the few consoles I never got because it didn't have much that interested me. Even though I had a PS and Saturn (which I still do) I was more into PCs at the time. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I disagree with you dismissing my opinion and tastes just because they're not the same as yours.

At least you made it through without a tirade of swearing but I think it's safe to say we just have polar opposite opinions.

And with that, it's time for some Monster Hunter.

>> No.3848894

>>3845570
>Actually mom it's called ANIME, not cartoons

>> No.3848897

>>3848856
You had to be there, man. There were hundreds, probably thousands of games.

And Doom 100% does count. So does Wolfenstein 3-D.

>> No.3848927

>>3848889
Ah, so you're the same guy from before? That's bad, I wasted all of this time on a pointless argument. I should've realized it though, "my wife doesn't like it so your argument is invalid" sounded indeed very strange.
Let me give you a serious advice though: go to /r/eddit. No, seriously, I'm not kidding or anything. I had the misfortune to spend time in there because I didn't know any better and 4chan didn't load on my ISP for some time. Your opinion is exactly like what I saw while I was there. You'll just fit right in, and I'm not kidding.
In any case, I seriously don't see what you're doing on /vr/, except maybe coming there for PC game discussion.

>> No.3849298

>>3848897
>There were hundreds, probably thousands of games.
but could you like
name a couple

>> No.3849315

>>3849298
"Nah you just had to be THERE man"
T. every nostalgic "scene" guy who seems to have amnesia about what made his favorite things so good in the first place

>> No.3849318

>>3849298
I have so many examples I can't show you just one.

>> No.3849321

>>3849315
i mean, i get it. it happens when you get old. but i am curious about the shareware scene

>> No.3849324
File: 5 KB, 222x227, smug english boy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3849324

>>3849318

>> No.3849339

>>3849321
I have long had an idea of a running joke about that certain type of guy though. That one guy who always talks how awesome it was in some Philly club in the '90s or whatever. When you ask him, the answer is always the same: "you just had to be there man, you had to see that".
The question is, why the fuck bring it up then? It's just awkward, like laughing at something but you can't explain what it is. It's like druggies who laugh with each other about their trips, when literally no one aside them has any idea what they're talking about.

>> No.3849973

>>3846989
yo bitches love Dr mario. I never got that shit.

>> No.3850021

>>3849298
Shareware/PD games I played or remember others talking about: Jazz Jackrabbit, Inner Space, Abuse, VGA Planets, Nahlakh, Nethack, Liero, Epic Pinball, Soldat, MoleZ, Raptor, Commander Keen, Alien Carnage, Tyrian.

Duke Nukem 3D and Quake were shareware too.

>> No.3850679
File: 167 KB, 400x150, sherm521.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3850679

>>3848927
>Ah, so you're the same guy from before? That's bad, I wasted all of this time on a pointless argument. I should've realized it

Yeah, you really need to work on your perception, I recognize you immediately. We've had almost this exact conversation probably half a dozen times already. And no I'm still not going anywhere, certainly not to somewhere like ruddit. I've been on 4chan a long ass time and I like it. You're the one who sounds like he needs a hugbox, it doesn't bother me at all that we disagree.

As for /vr/, I post on most boards here but I'm an oldish fart and there are a ton of "retro" games I still love and love to talk about.

> "my wife doesn't like it so your argument is invalid" sounded indeed very strange.

You also need to work on your reading comprehension because nothing I've said amounts to this.

Gold star for not going full on tourettes this time though. Maybe we are getting somewhere.

>> No.3850690

>>3850679
Ans you really need to work on not being such a condescending faggot. Leave

>> No.3850696
File: 45 KB, 468x351, 103913-dawson-crying.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3850696

>>3850690
>Leave

Why does it upset you so much to have to interact with people who disagree with you? It makes no difference to me if you stay or go, but I'm surprised you like 4chan in the first place.

>> No.3850756
File: 304 KB, 800x1124, 6a00d8341c5f3053ef0133f218d483970b-800wi.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3850756

>>3843131
>Why you must never be ashamed to be a 80's- 90's nostalgia creep

nostalgia faggotry is "everything was better when you're a kid and olny turned to shit when you grew up"

hell, we already have people who grew up in the 2000s talk about things were better when they were kids and only went to shit when they grew up

>> No.3850772

>>3844808
stop hiring women

>> No.3850774

>>3845997
FEZ is fantastic though..

>> No.3850814

>>3850756
Well, truth is things like Hollywood movies have actually turned shit in the last decades.

>> No.3850830

>>3850756
Pretty much. Nostalgia is the preferred opiate of losers and failures who wish they could just curl up and be children forever.

>> No.3850872

>>3844431
Man we have such different tastes. I've played all of those games for an afternoon before dropping them. I really can't think of a single indie title in the last 5 years that held my interest. Maybe KSP.

>> No.3850884

>>3844496
Why do I get the feeling you're an active reddit user..

>> No.3850892

>>3850756
There's nostalgia, but sometimes you may actually realize that some fundamental shifts occur in entertainment industry and they influence quite a lot. Times do change, contrary to what you might believe.
4th gen average game budgets were at $50-300K, as I've already mentioned. The average cost of development for PS1 was around $1 mln. PS2 was at $5–10 mln, PS3 raised it even further to $20–30, and PS4 is estimated by the industry guys at ~$60 mln per game. And this is only the averages: e.g., GTAV cost ~$140 million just to develop, and around the same amount to market. That's more than your Hollywood blockbusters.
To say that all of this never had any effect and it's just "nostalgia goggles" is just not noticing your own bias.
Here's one interesting quote from PS2 times:
> Sierra founder Ken Williams argues that high production costs hinder risk taking and video game innovation.
>"Here’s the problem as I see it: Production values have risen to a level that games are starting to cost $3 million to $10 million to produce. Double this amount to get the true cost to a company, by the time they promote and manufacture the product. At this level, companies can’t afford to take chances on defining new categories."
And this was 6th gen. Mr. Williams didn't even know where the industry was heading to.

>> No.3850932

>>3850884
No clue, I've never posted on there. Maybe you're stupid.

>> No.3851001
File: 999 KB, 500x280, monwXD1r0sqjpo1_500.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3851001

>>3850892
>And this was 6th gen. Mr. Williams didn't even know where the industry was heading to.

Makes sense for him to have been discouraged then. 6th gen was the worst for it, when it was only big budget games that could afford physical production and distribution. Before digital with XLBA, Indie games, Steam and before mobile really blew up.

Now everything thrives, from big budget retail games to tiny one man projects. If you can think of a game idea now, it's much easier to make it and get it out to people who can play itt than ever before. It's such an awesome time to be into gaming.

>> No.3851027
File: 22 KB, 400x300, Onizuka_Smug.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3851027

>>3846068
>tfw you're handsome and your encyclopedic knowledge of anime is seen as a cute quirk instead of a degenerate lifestyle

>> No.3851035

>>3851001
Are you that "3DS is MH machine guy again"? You're repeating yourself

>> No.3851039

>>3851027
that trick only works on vagina niggers you retarded faggot

>> No.3851047

>>3850932
Probably the walls of text with little content and bitchy attitude. You'd fit well over there. Be succinct.

>> No.3851089

>>3851001
Modern indie games and modern triple A games are mostly derivative garbage. I can't believe there is actual someone that thinks that we're living in some kind of gaming golden age. It's actual just delusional.

>> No.3851192
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3851192

>>3851035
Repeating one's self is par for the course around here I'm afraid. That whiny guy who hates modern gaming repeats the same things almost daily... Whatever.

Monster Hunter is indeed an incredible series that's currently on the 3DS, but I'd hardly call it an MH machine. That thing has a boatload of amazing games on it.

>> No.3851198 [DELETED] 

>>3851192
Oh, no, you got me all wrong. I meant that you should fuck off /vr/ to your wife and play retron 5 with her bull.

>> No.3851206

>>3851192
So are you that same wordy anon who plays with wife on her iPad or not?

>> No.3851217
File: 2 KB, 48x97, Joe-moon1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3851217

>>3851206
Isn't that obvious? Or are you really that dense?

>>3851047
Okay.

Grow the fuck up. :)

>> No.3851719

>>3851089
Hot opinion, Kiddo.

>> No.3851772

>>3850772
she did all the music though.

>> No.3851858

I don't think we are in anything close to a Golden Age and I also believe that games have gotten collectively worse, but does anyone actually believe there has not been any good games released in the last 5 years from indie or otherwise devs? That just seems like trying to hard to impress strangers on the internet with your refusal to like more recent things.

It would also be nice if everyone arguing here actually went into the details of mechanics as to why older games are better/newer games are worse. 200+ posts and the whole thread literally consists of YEAH HUH/NUH UH. Somebody make an actual fucking argument already.

>> No.3851869

>>3851047
>walls of text
What's it like to find a handful sentences too much to read?

>> No.3851915

>>3851858
Old vs new game design is more of a /v/ subject. There's no real arguments to be made. One guy is buthurt about how much he hates games and everyone else is making fun of him.

>> No.3851939 [DELETED] 

>>3842052
this would be OK nowadays as well but akiman would have to be a mulatto with a septum piercing and purple hair

>> No.3851971

>>3851858
I think it's because, ironically, the more expensive Triple-A games have become, the cheaper they end up on the whole. Games are often put-out half-finished, with flawed mechanics and half-hearted execution. They end up being undefined, lacklustre experiences which attempt to pander to as many people as possible, you end up with vapid, by-the-numbers game selling large quantities and being adored despite their inherent mediocrity. Skyrim is a great example of that; a great which lacks the world of Morrowind or the combat of Oblivion, but is adored because it is so dry and accessible to everyone. Hell, there are people in their 70s and 80s who play the game because it's just so simplified.

The main problem is that very few (if any) games or companies are really innovating in any meaningful way. Part of that comes down to the fact that they just won't be profitable. The problem is that the odd companies we used to adore are effectively denying (Konami, Capcom, SEGA for a while now, and even Nintendo), but very few companies are coming into replace them. The only two I can think of are From Software (who have been around for a while, but only really became big in recent years), as well as PlatinumGames. And PlatinumGames are already going to shit because, surprise surprise, they're being forced to put out quantity over quality just to make ends meet. As a result, though we do get some good games every year, the main problem is that games which SHOULD be good, just aren't. In the past they would have gotten the time and dedication they needed in order to be finished properly, but now they're shoved out the door unfinished because the publishers or the developers just really need to make money. High-cost gaming is it's own trap, and effectively it's own downfall. It's the exact same shit happening with the film industry, too. (1/2)

>> No.3851980

>>3851971
(2/2) As for Indie titles, they rarely if ever innovation, and are usually just an amalgamation of things people are nostalgic for in old games, often leading to a mediocre and underwhelming experience which many people will lap up because they have nostalgia for things they never experienced. The perfect example of this is Shovel Knight; a mediocre platformer which rips pretty much everything in it from some retro game or another. It's heavily based on Duck Tales, with a SMB3-style over-world, Castlevania-style checkpoint-system, etc etc. There's no real sense of innovation there; it's just people crawling back into nostalgia in order to find something meaningful again. The thing is though, those days of gaming are gone, and that's fine. Those games are a product of their era, and should be recognised as such. They're great games, sure, but think of all the great games from beyond 3th gen. Developers continued to innovate and to build newer and (usually) better games. Shovel Knight is the very epitome of playing it safe; it's so inoffensive and derivative as to have next to no actual worth, as it is just a Frankenstein's creation of a product. And there in lies the problem. The industry is fucked, and many people will bank on Indie games as a sort of alternative, not realising that they are in fact the culmination of just how stagnant the industry is.

I'm not saying there aren't good newer games, of course. The problem is that they tend to have next to no influence. And, if they do have influence, they then are usually milked to death by their developer/publisher ad nauseum, or they are copied ad nauseum. Just look at what happened to Assassin's Creed II; a game which was a fantastic sequel to its mediocre original. What happened? The franchise was milked to death and now is effectively a joke. The industry is so innately greedy that it kills all growth before it can begin.

>> No.3852074
File: 956 KB, 192x154, 1328626293012.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3852074

>>>3851971
>>3851971
And you call me long winded!
Capcom still rocks. SFV is a special case, it was released early for the enthusiast crowd. Anyone who's paid attention to the series knows the first release is always a little shitty, so unless you're an SF nut you wait till they refine it.

Monster Hunter is one of the biggest games ever and with good reason. It's complex, high intensity action with tons of content and has just been getting better and better with every release. Also the current one has been out for almost a year and a half and still gets regular DLC releases. That's free DLC, by the way.

Resident Evil just knocked it out of the park as well.

Zelda is taking the world by storm again, and Splatoon's still huge Atlus is makingsome of the best dungeon crawling rpgs ever and SMTIV was incredible. King of Fighters is back to being good, heck even Mortal Kombat is good these days.

And that's just the barest tip of some of the stuff off the top of my head I happen to love, not even getting into indies. With those I think you just have your head in the sand or are on another planet. On top of it almost everyone I talk to about games both loves playing them and are into totally different things. I can't not see it as a golden age.

>> No.3852087

>>3852074
you just have incredibly low standards

>> No.3852095

>>3852087
Snarky reply from a 40-year-old reddit enthusiast incoming.

>> No.3852097
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3852097

>>3851980
>The problem is that they tend to have next to no influence. And, if they do have influence, they then are usually milked to death by their developer/publisher ad nauseum, or they are copied ad nauseum.

You're both contradicting yourself and pretending like that hasn't been the basis of game and genre development the whole time. You might have loved the glut of mediocre 8 and 16 bit platformers but I never did and they're no different from the iterative genre games of today. Except now there are a lot more games in a lot more genres.

But we always end up at the same place, it's glass half empty or half full. Sure not everything's great. But everything was never great. If there's more good than bad then I'm happy and I think there's way, way more good than bad.

You see it differently, but that's your choice. From what I gather there are a great many things we see fundamentally differently.

>> No.3852107
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3852107

>>3852095
I'm 43 axctually and have still never posted on reedit, but somehow it doesn't surprise me that still hasn't sunk into your thick hillbilly skull.

>> No.3852115
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3852115

>>3852107
And I'm 44. You just can't help but inanely respond, can you?

>> No.3852119

>>3852115
You literally asked for it Kiddo. :^)

>> No.3852129

>>3851971
>>3851980

This is a pretty thorough answer which I appreciate.

I notice though that you seem to put a lot of emphasis on innovation though. For example your criticism of Shovel Knight's 'mediocrity' seems to derive from how it does not invent any new concepts but merely synthesizes ideas from games in the 3rd gen. Is this necessarily a bad thing? For example when it comes to literature or movies it has been deduced that there are about 7 basic plots in various context or themes. Fact is, you can draw nearly every story ever made after Shakespeare to a basic trope which he has already covered. As games get more established, similar sort of mechanical 'themes' arise and after a certain period of time many of the potential interaction formats will be covered eventually, especially for the 2nd Dimension.

How much does it matter that a game invent a new kind of interaction? If only games that brought new interactions into the medium are worth anything, that would mean the only games worth anything are Pong, Super Mario Bros, Doom, Super Mario 64, a few other innovators and that would be about it.

Some more recent games for example which have been well liked such as the Souls series don't even really invent anything either. They're basically modern dungeon crawlers building on a lot of reliably established concepts but not really inventing anything new. Are all the souls game trash because they didn't reinvent the wheel? I guess my point is that there are a lot of solid tried and true game mechanics which can be mined for more enjoyable games. Should we really abandon all new "retro" games because none of them will make you feel the way they did when your ten? I would rather have a plethora of mechanically solid (read: challenging and engaging, not just minimally functional like modern AAA junk) but non-revolutionary games than to have no more new games because anon on /vr/ will never feel the same as he did as when he first started playing video games.

>> No.3852182

>>3850872
>>3844431
Also Rabi-ribi, Aquaria and recently Hollow Knight. Two later games have amzing drawn graphics and style (not pixelshit).

>>3843480
Good Idea/concept + Small team of people who actually know what they are doing = good game

Fags who try to cash in on the nostalgia often do not know a thing about what made the old games good.

>> No.3852468

>>3852074
>And you call me long winded!
>two posts

It's an explanation on what is wrong with the modern game's industry, it's not going to be simple.

>Capcom still rocks
They don't. They're practices are scummy, their games mediocres. Resi Evil might have finally gotten a good game again, but it was 10 years since a previous good title in the series anyhow. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, as they say. They put out a really shitty RE game in the exact same year, too.

Anyway, all you've really listed are a bunch of good titles. It's still not very many though.

>KOF is back to being good
It never stopped.

>even Mortal Kombat is good these things
That's an anomaly.

Zelda will be praised to high-heavens for a while, and then people will come down from their high and re-evaluate it, calling it much worse than they thought at first, mark my words. It's what happens with literally every new title in the series.

Splatoon is the epitome of what is wrong with modern gaming; a game with a short lifespan which profits off of a particular moment in time, before being a dead, meaningless game soon after, just like a Fifa game or a CoD game.

Atlus are beyond overrated, but that's a thread for another day, perhaps.

And Monster Hunter epitomises a series being milked to death. It's the exact same game over and over again, without, again, any real innovation.

>Stuff...I happen to love

low-standards and confirmation bias. Not an argument.

>almost everyone I talk to about games both loves playing them

Anecdotal evidence =not an argument.

Effectively what you're saying is "I like this stuff and therefore everything is good", when quite clearly it isn't. It's pretty clear you're of the ones with your head in the sand if you think all these practices means that everything is fine, when it quite clearly isn't. There were barely a handful of good games last year, and it'll be the same this year as well. A few good games won't magically prevent that.

>> No.3852479

>>3852129
Shovel Knight comes across as a mediocre compared to, say, Dust: An Elysian Tail for instance. I don't expect games to not take inspiration from one another; Dust was a metroidvania through and through, but it took a different and unique enough spin on it to make it very much its own game. Shovel Knight, as with Guacamelee, is a bit too obsessed with saying "Hey, remember this thing from this game?" for me to really enjoy it. I agree there's only so much developers can do, but as I said before I admire a game which tries and fails than one which doesn't try at all.

>How much does it matter that a game invent a new kind of interaction?
Innovation =/= whole new invention. Innovation just means improving on and refining a game and/or genre. Panzer Dragoon was an innovation on Space Harrier. Was it innovative? Definitely. It didn't re-invent the wheel, but it improved on its predecessor drastically, and then with each subsequent release improved on itself even further.

Did you read the whole of my argument? I stated that From Software (the makers of the Souls series) are one of the best developers nowadays. But as I said, innovation isn't reinvention, it just means improving something to the next level. Dark Souls was so mindblowingly good, it was honestly a bit too good for 7th gen. It encapsulates my exact point. It was shoddy in places, had certain framerate issue and could be dickish and unbalanced in its execution, but it was an extremely solid and well put together game otherwise. But the main point is, it tried. And it didn't back down from trying to be what it was. It wasn't afraid to be this hard-as-hell game, and that coupled with solid mechanics and an incredibly refined combat system made it so much better than everything else. Hell, it was released around the same time as Skyrim, and unlike that game it actually has soul and personality. (1/2)

>> No.3852483

>>3852129
(2/2)

I don't think you're quite getting my point about indie titles. I don't have nostalgia for the majority of retro games which I play, but I can still tell when they're more innovative and mechanically superior to modern titles, or indie or modern titles which shamelessly copy them. And again, I'm saying that this is what is wrong with the industry. Mediocre games aren't necessarily a bad thing, but they are detrimental on whole to the industry at large, because they inevitably cause a slump on the whole. Innovation also doesn't mean revolutionary, it just means improving upon and refining. Just being different or unique in some way, which the majority of titles, indie or not, lack nowadays. I know there's always been a problem with people attempting to capitalise on popular genres (fighting games, platformers, FPSes, etc), but the majority of those titles, even when derivative, at least attempted to differentiate themselves in some way. Now we've ended up with carbon copy, design-by-committee games which attempt to appeal to everyone to maximise profit, and so end up being bland and dull experiences as they have no real focus or heart.

>> No.3852606

>>3842383
>Gonzalez
>best chiptune artist ever
AHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHHAAAAHHAAAAAAA!

>> No.3852639

>>3852468
>their games mediocres.
I completely disagree.

>It never stopped.
XII and XIII were complete garbage.

>That's an anomaly.
Okay...

>Splatoon is the epitome of what is wrong with modern gaming

A fun multiplayer game that a ton of people are enjoying is everything wrong with modern gaming? Okay.

>Atlus are beyond overrated

Everyone's favorite buzzword. "Overrated" is a completely worthless word.

>And Monster Hunter epitomises a series being milked to death. It's the exact same game over and over again, without, again, any real innovation.

Said by someone who doesn't play the series. What Capcom is best at is taking a strong idea and refining it continually. Monster Hunter keeps the core idea of what made it great but has been steadily getting better with release.

>low-standards and confirmation bias. Not an argument.
You can say low standards, I honestly think you don't really like video gaming. You like the nostalgia you still hold for the games you played when you were young and everything you look at is clouded by that.


>Anecdotal evidence =not an argument.
>when quite clearly it isn't.

It's not clear at all. That's your opinion. And it's okay for you to feel that way, but it doesn't make you right. And you can stamp your feet and tell me I have low standards, but I think you're a fool. All you do is try to make arguments about how the things people are having fun playing shouldn't be fun and they shouldn't be enjoying them.

And it always comes down to the same thing. You say everything sucks and there's nothing or barely anything good (anecdotal) and I say I think there's so much great stuff out there my problem is finding time in the day to play everything I want (also anecdotal).

The reality is we just completely disagree, and I think that's fine but we clearly see things from a completely different perspective.

>> No.3852784

>>3843480
because it's small team + low budget + no women

>> No.3852847
File: 1.83 MB, 400x240, mh8cca2b17958d555281b912eb.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3852847

>>3852483
>Innovation also doesn't mean revolutionary, it just means improving upon and refining.

And incidentally this is exactly what Capcom does with Monster Hunter. And why your claim that the series is stagnating is part of the reason I find everything you say so hard to take seriously.

The first game was already incredible. Like a glorious blend between their D&D brawlers and PSO with an amazing aesthetic and fantastic control scheme. It blended very high skill ceiling intense action with fun loot progression.

But for all that was good it was also rough around the edges in a lot of ways, with some mobs that were just not fun to fight and some weapon types that were clearly better than others. As well as some bad AI, camera control and broken hit boxes.

The PSP years were a little dark just because the PSP design is kind of shitty and not quite fit for the complexity of the control scheme. But they refined everything else and the game got better.

And I'll be honest, when they announced that the series was moving to the Nintendo DS, not Xbox360/PS3 I was super, super pissed. I ranted and raved and thought they'd flushed the system. But in reality it ended up being a great move. The DS (and now 3DS) with it's touch screen actually proved to be exactly what was really needed. They also further refined the weapons, making everything better and your characters able to have more skills and creative ways to build different sets. But to balance it the monsters keep getting harder and more complex.

The flagship badass monster that was such a pain in the first game when you met him is now actually much harder in terms of variety and nastiness of attacks, but he's also very tame compared to most of what you have to fight.

cont

>> No.3852857
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3852857

>>3852847
Likewise when they announced that in the new version they were adding a super gauge and special arts I did worry it was going to ruin the series. But again I was proven wrong by them and it's ended up being by far the best game in the series ever.

And it's not like I see everything through rose tinted glasses. King of Fighters, one of my favorite series of all time faltered from not great to downright terrible for a while. Tomb Raider released an incredible game (Underworld) that was largely ignored and is now replaced with a near clone of Uncharted, a series I despise.

But even at that there's so much amazing going on that I find it hard for even the worst of it to bother me.

>> No.3852897

>>3852468
>Splatoon is the epitome of what is wrong with modern gaming; a game with a short lifespan which profits off of a particular moment in time, before being a dead, meaningless game soon after

You have have really hated arcades then.

>> No.3852994

>>3842052

Yes, I think it is somewhat accepted that games were at their best when the studios had grown above bedroom-tier, but not yet into a massive industry.

I don't know exactly when I would say that games were generally best, but I'm tempted to say somewhere from about 94 (release of X-com) to 2001 (release of Operation flashpoint).

Then the studios were small enough that the teams could be heavily involved in most aspects and passionate, and the studios had enough money to realize their ideas in a presentable way.

>> No.3853008

>>3843480

First, Indies are amateurs. Second, the 'Indie-scene' or whatever you'd call it is basically the only source for interesting games nowadays.

>> No.3853019
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3853019

>>3853008

>> No.3853027

>>3852129
>>3852483
You need to look in the fucking dictionary, because you clearly confuse innovation with evolution.

"Improving" and "refining" somthing established is evolution by definition.

Innovation by its definition is "new idea" or "new method"

In VG context that means either inventing something completely new (new idea), or doing somthing with old concepts that no one ever done before (new method). For instance, one of the first games recognised as modern "indie", with all its attributes is Gish. The innovative idea in Gish's case was protagonist that is made of a simulated liquid, and interaction with world consists of altering liquid's properties (slick/sticky/condensed).

>> No.3853032

>>3853008
I don't think you know what an amateur is.

>> No.3853046

>>3853008
Indies by definition, are independant. Meaning no executives telling them what they can and what they can not do, but also no publisher to give them money before they actually release the product (that's why they are asking Kickstarter most oftenly).

It has nothing to do with professionalism, and even professionals can sometimes go indie.

>> No.3853062
File: 311 KB, 409x500, How-to-Talk-to-an-Autistic-Kid-Daniel-Stefanski.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3853062

>>3852107
>>3852115

>> No.3853135

>>3844808
>I can't believe you don't see the appeal!

Akiman confirmed for most based man in the business.

>> No.3853168

>>3852095
Nigger, you're the only one in this thread who belongs there, or ob /v/. It's incredible how much of an ass you made out of yourself multiple times in this thread alone, you are truly insufferable.

>cue memebuzzwordtroll reply

>> No.3853216

>>3853032

If I bake cookies and sell on the street I'm not a baker.

>> No.3853238

>>3853216
If it's a hobby then no, not necessarily. If it's your vocation then you are by definition.

>> No.3853374
File: 256 KB, 500x375, Mortal_c69119_1775807.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3853374

>>3853062
I honestly hate ever having to mention it, but that guy was baiting hard and I was having fun. I don't think age actually matters at all and miss the days when "I disagree so you must be underage!" was the go-to rebuttal to virtually everything.

>> No.3853445

>>3853238

Yes, when I'm referring to indies I mainly mean people who make games who do not have it as a main job. Perhaps I'm using mistaken terminology, but it feels wrong to label for example the studio that did 'No mans sky' as an 'Indie-studio' in my mind, since they have so much funds.

>> No.3853572

>>3851971
>>3851980
I agree with all of this.

>>3851858
>It would also be nice if everyone arguing here actually went into the details of mechanics as to why older games are better/newer games are worse.
For me the big point is not some specific mechanics the games had. It's the very focus on mechanics, refinement and depth of those.
I think that in old games, the gameplay mattered way more, because games focused way less on graphics then they do today. Heck, look at Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Tetris, to name a few. They didn't have very advanced graphics, if at all. You couldn't really make anything to truly wow outsiders in 3rd gen. It was still bleeps and bloops, pixelated sprites and all that.
Then 4th gen opened the door to "dude graphics lmao" games. But it wasn't bad at first. Starfox tried new and cool gameplay ideas. DKC, though it's not my favorite by any means, was at least a solid platformer.
Heck, even SF2 definitely owes a lot of its success to the graphics. The thing is, it was only a part of its success; the other part was the iconic gameplay formula.
Other games actually used new possibilities brought by technology. Sonic 2 made a full use of Blast processing. Polygonal 3D made Quake possible. And Shenmue tried to be a game of unprecedented proportions and immersion.
But as hardware evolved, graphics started approaching photorealism, and suddenly it became apparent that games were new action movies, and graphics were the new special effects. Look how almost every Hollywood action has incredibly recycled, cliched actual substance, because that's what has been proven to sell. It's deliberately made as dumb and cliched as possible, to cover the largest demographic and make sure any idiot gets it. But still, without a failure, every year new action movies get profit, due to hundreds of millions in special effects.
And that's exactly what most AAA games are: special effects with casual game attached.

>> No.3853647

>>3853572
(cont.)
And the thing is, it would be great if gameplay also got up to the graphics and became far more complex. But it's been exactly the opposite: games went backwards. It's good if you at least get decent FPS today, living by the standards laid by Goldeneye etc.; sometimes it's a non-game like physics simulator.
That's because every game is painstakingly focus group-tested to death. If some mouthbreather says he can't figure out where to go, the game will be made a rail shooter. If some 12 year old says he can't go 10 minutes without dying, you will have a game with no health.
In other words, the customer is always right. And when you need to sell 1 mln copies of a game to break even, you have to make sure no one's demands are left unnoticed, no one gets turned off by high difficulty, complex mechanics, confusing plot, etc. So… you just dumb it down to the bare basics, and give people what they're most familiar with. Don't you dare challenge people, try anything new, or god forbid some millennial won't understand how Water Temple works. That's how the stupidest part of players dictates what the rest will play.
But back in the SF2 times, Akiman could say, "fuck your deadlines, and fuck your tastes; I'm gonna draw my waifu with best thighs, and put it in the game, because I'm fucking Akiman". Back in the '90s, Nintendo would tell Shiggy to make Yoshi's Island pre-rendered like DKC, but he would make the game look like crayon art out of spite—and it'd get accepted. Later that decade, people in Nintendo R&D1 could develop what would become WarioWare in secret from their manager, and then other people would come and give then their ideas for microgames.
It was just about who was "right". When creator is the dictator, you get Takeshi's Challenge. When it's the dumbest players, you get casual games. When you find a compromise and the creators and players are willing to understand each other, you occasionally get something like SF2 or DQ.

>> No.3854117
File: 136 KB, 315x179, terry-hattoss-win.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3854117

>>3853647
But fighters are a perfect example of a genre that's been just getting better and better over time and the opposite of more casual and accessible.

And DQ1 though remarkable in it's day is ultimately a pretty simple game.

>> No.3854205

>>3852994
>the studios had grown above bedroom-tier, but not yet into a massive industry

The biggest problem with modern gaming by far is that this middle-ground has been driven out from the high end and still isn't supportable from the low end, and what I'm afraid of is that the lower end won't ever get a consistent pool of expertise to sustain something like the DS boom.

>> No.3854776

>>3850756
The difference is that you can identify quantifiable examples of how each decade flowed, though.
In other elements, I mean, the 80s and 90s were shit, or they had hints of shit to come.

I wouldn't consider it an exaggeration to say the 90s were the last chance we had to save the west and we blew it. Bill Clinton, Blair, etc, all wasted the left's chance to overturn neoliberal reforms.

Still, we had small dev studios as a major thing which was nice. Gas was cheap, cars were still cool looking and boxy, airplanes weren't all a variation on "white", and sonic wasn't yet a by-word for autism spectrum disorder.

>> No.3854889 [DELETED] 
File: 53 KB, 300x267, sm20027361.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3854889

>>3854776
>I wouldn't consider it an exaggeration to say the 90s were the last chance we had to save the west and we blew it. Bill Clinton, Blair, etc, all wasted the left's chance to overturn neoliberal reforms.

So it's not just video games you're this batshit crazy nostalgia blinded about everything. But a con man tv personality who can barely make it through a sentence without making random shit up or lying through his teeth who tells you global warming is just weather and not caused by humans is right on the money? Your overwhelming stupidity puts us all at risk.

At least it makes the retarded things you say about modern games make more sense...

>>3854205
That was a problem of the PS2 era, now mid-budget games are thriving and where a lot of creativity and innovation are coming out. It's part of why gaming is so incredible these days.

>> No.3854940

>>3853168
That was my first post ITT, big guy. Jesus, you newfag lefties are easy to trigger.

>> No.3855012

>>3854889
>But a con man tv personality who can barely make it through a sentence without making random shit up or lying through his teeth who tells you global warming is just weather and not caused by humans is right on the money?
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

>> No.3855097

>>3855012
He's referring to frog man not being able to keep his facts straight.

>> No.3855346

>>3853572
>I think that in old games, the gameplay mattered way more, because games focused way less on graphics then they do today. Heck, look at Dragon Quest

Nigga Dragon Quest was boring as fuck tho and Pokemon 1 is broken.

>> No.3855367

Todd Howard
>after being on the chess club and being bullied by Jocks, Todd worked hard at his craft and created the greatest game series of all time. period. no questions asked. and anyone that disagrees with me is blatantly stupid and deserves to be Necked until death. dont reply to me with any negativity faggots or your mother will die in her sleep tonight.

>> No.3855373

>>3855012
>>3854940
Please just hide his posts and don't answer to that /r/eddit cuck. He'd rather play games with his wife and her son.

>> No.3855382

>>3854205
>The biggest problem with modern gaming by far is that this middle-ground has been driven out from the high end and still isn't supportable from the low end, and what I'm afraid of is that the lower end won't ever get a consistent pool of expertise to sustain something like the DS boom.
Basically this. Nothing to add, pretty much.
I'm kinda grateful now that Nintendo's handhelds stayed pretty backwards for years.

>> No.3855383

>>3855373
lol this bitch be triggered

>> No.3855385

>>3850772
You know lots of women were heavily involved in the development of all of Capcom's classic fighters, don't you? Vega was designed by a woman. Many of the backgrounds and character sprites were drawn by women.

>> No.3855402

>>3855382
Steam says hi

>> No.3855446

>>3855402
Console kiddies can't into Steam

>> No.3855526

>>3854117
this might be the wrongest post i've ever read on /vr/, cheers

>> No.3855601
File: 35 KB, 89x129, 9906.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3855601

>>3855526
Fighting games are a genre I take very seriously and have been playing for many, many years. This isn't a matter of opinion, in this case you are objectively flat wrong.

>> No.3855645

>>3855601
>fighters are a perfect example of a genre that's been just getting better and better over time
explain how this can be possible when there hasn't been a good fighting game released since cvs2 then

>> No.3855651
File: 30 KB, 475x533, 1423004472938.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3855651

>>3855601
>taking video games seriously in current year

>> No.3855659

>>3855645
>since cvs2 then
cvs2? really??!
I don't even know where to start with you people anymore...

>> No.3855669

>>3855659
start with naming a good fighting game released after cvs2, thought that was obvious
it shouldn't be hard since fighters are a perfect example of a genre that's been just getting better and better over time

>> No.3855683

>>3848538
>>3848889
Ha I actually played alphabounce, and many other games from the same studio, they blended breakout with rpg elements or something, Its fun

Im not a big fan of casual games, just like the guy you were talking with, but I can appreciate a good casual game
If you are interested, check out PopCap, they excel in casual gaming

>> No.3855698

>>3855669
CVS2 is a bit of an unbalanced clusterfuck. EO is a little better but still not incredible...

KoF2002 was better already, but Ultimate Match is even better because time went by and it was refined. Ditto with Street Fighter IV. That's the point of all this.

>> No.3855706

>>3855698
>EO is a little better
>02UM
>SFIV
ok, so i was right and you have no idea what you're talking about. just checking. carry on.

>> No.3855727
File: 34 KB, 420x140, Whip_whip.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3855727

>>3855706
lol okay at least you didn't stick with sf 2

>> No.3856596

>>3855385
Symphony of the Night composer was a woman

unrelated, But Darker than Black and Cowboy Bebop composer was also a woman

>> No.3856603

>>3844423
>>3844448
>>3844471
>>3844539

mboy's right. Great points, exactly what I would've said. I really don't like that pretentious reddit fake positivity.

"Gaming is so fucking awesome".. I really had to hold back my vomit when he said that. That's marketing yes-man talk if I ever heard it. Corralled idiot.

Point out anything he's doing and he'll just say "no, I wasn't doing that" I've met many idiots who spend the arguments defending themselves instead of making an arguemnt. That's called insecurity. And it's very telling. If he tried to make an arguemnt, it would fall apart completely. That's where they start pointing out the obvious in an attempt to deflect/throw you off, like saying "that's your opinion".. as if that fucking means anything.

>> No.3856746

>>3842052
yogi

>> No.3856867
File: 993 KB, 240x144, monh062bb2b7.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3856867

>>3856603
Sorry you hate fun. Hope the amazing gameplay of Dragon Quest 1 keeps you going for all these years. :)

>"Gaming is so fucking awesome".. I really had to hold back my vomit when he said that.

This gave me a genuine belly laugh. Poor baby! You get upset so easily....

>> No.3856882

Hey whats going on in this thread

Lots of shitposts i see

>> No.3856954

>>3856882
/vr/ crying about how mad they are that games are popular now.

>> No.3856961

>>3856882
Brief synopsys: a somewhat fractured talk on how back in the day creative/freaky guys could be hired in game companies and helped make good games. The actual discussion gets constantly shunned and interfered by some not-redditor who needs everyone to agree that current year is gaming golden age, and if they don't he gets all defensive and jumps at them insisting he's right because he thinks so.
He can't make a single argument, while mostly justifying everything by blanket statements, clais without any evidence/examples, and opinions of other people "he knows". Not being able to make any substantial point, he constantly resorts to fallacies, lampoons others, and demands that he isn't called mean words.
Meanwhile he admits to being called "cuck" and "fag" a lot which really hurts his feelings and shows how he really is a smart guy with a different opinion, and also says he likes playing casual iPad games with his wife most of all and plays indie games on his PSP more than anything.

>> No.3856975
File: 203 KB, 1000x662, Gaiares DSCF3446.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3856975

>>3856961
I love how I'm the one having a good time through all this and all you can do is cry and name call day in and day out, but somehow you till try to paint like I'm the one upset.

Sorry that my wife also likes video games and the PSP is a handy emulation device? I don't know why that bit gets your panties in a twist so much, but it's entertaining.

>> No.3856994 [DELETED] 

There were no SJWs in the 80s and 90s. Internet was a mistake.

>> No.3857004

>>3856994
No, there were tons. In the 60's and 70's too. It was when hillbillies finally got the internet they suddenly realized not everyone was as backwards as they were so they started calling them social justice warriors.

Because you know, fighting for social justice is the one thing that backwater retard bigots hate more than anything.

>> No.3857145

>>3856867
>This gave me a genuine belly laugh. Poor baby! You get upset so easily....

You've just underlined how pathetic you are. That was a joke. And you actually getting upset over it to the point that you have to mock me, makes me laugh. Insecure idiot.

>> No.3857182

>>3857145
lol

>> No.3857757
File: 204 KB, 817x719, sf11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3857757

>>3856994
SJWs really have little influence on the quality of games though.
Speaking of which… picrelated was the initial sketch of Claw in SF2. It was rejected because of Western "religious sensibilities".

>> No.3858198

>>3850756
Lel I was in like 5th grade when this movie came out and have 00's nostalgia. I remember my cousins showing it too me for the first time at their old house and I fucking loved it.

Nostalgia for the stuff from your childhood is fine but plenty of losers on here seem to autistically hate anyone who didn't grow up in the same decade as them, as if the effect of that matters at all when you're looking at the ovetall personalities of individual people.

>> No.3858256

>>3855383
Really seems to be the other way around.

>> No.3858279

>>3851971
>>3851980
Good posts.

>> No.3858314

>>3842950
>And he basically always slept in the closet when there was a huge bed in his room. I just saw his legs coming out of the closet. And I asked him, why is that? And he felt much more peace of mind when he slept in the closet.
I've never related to someone so much

>> No.3858317

>>3843480
Because they take game design classes instead of actual programming and math classes

>> No.3858846 [DELETED] 

>>3857757
...that's a case of "sjw"

I feel like everybody who says sjw are just pulling it out of their ass

how else do you explain a bunch of idiots getting upset over a series of average youtube videos.

>> No.3858849

>>3857757
...that's a case of "sjw"?

I feel like everybody who says sjw are just pulling it out of their ass

how else do you explain a bunch of idiots getting upset over a series of average youtube videos.

>> No.3858872

>>3858849
Not really, no. Just a pretty cool sketch of Vega which a certain board would have liked

>> No.3858878

>>3858872
it is pretty cool

>> No.3858987
File: 846 KB, 1280x720, freefall.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3858987

>>3858256
Real talk, I don't even know what you think I'm supposed to be upset about. It's him/you frothing at the mouth with rage over how much games suck now that I find funny so I poke. If I'm the one who's supposed to be butthurt at least give me something to work with.

>> No.3859235

>>3858987
>real talk

Take it to reddit. You have no idea who you're even replying to you colossal newfag.

>> No.3859242

>>3859235
but anon, he posted some carefully picked images to prove his point!! aw give him a chance!

>> No.3859246
File: 51 KB, 430x250, las-bolas-spheres.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3859246

>>3859235
lol come on, you can do better than that.

>> No.3859250

>>3859246
yeah you're pathetic

>> No.3859262
File: 39 KB, 604x422, Baby99718.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3859262

>>3859242

Give me a chance man! What am I supposed to be butthurt about?

>>3859250
That's still not much to go on.

>> No.3859263

I see a response and click minimise lol

It's time to stop this. This retard has full autism.

>> No.3859269

>>3858279
I agree.

>> No.3859270

>>3859263
Maybe you can convince someone else that DQ1 was the best RPG ever :)

>> No.3859273

>>3859270
wtf is DQ1?

>> No.3859276

>>3859270
does this autist keep thinking he's talking to the same person? I've seen this a few times. What a fucking retard.

>> No.3859280

>>3859273
That's right, deflect. Ignore that DQ1 while impressive for it's day is ultimately a pretty bare bones and boring game compared to what came after it.

>> No.3859281

>>3859263
I told you about the faggot bro. >>3855373 >>3856961
I told you.

>> No.3859283

>>3859276
It doesn't make any difference to me if you're 1 or 10 people.

>> No.3859286

>>3859280
WHHHAAATT I never fucking talked to you about DQ1 what you want from me XD

>>3859281
yeahh, I'm really starting to see that.. well at least I got a laugh

>>3859283
LOL!!

>> No.3859292

>>3859286
>what you want from me XD

Entertainment.

>> No.3859303

>>3858987
I don't get why everyone's picking on you, but I think they're just a bunch of meanies

ignore them, they're not worth it ;*

Honestly, I think Gaming is so damn cool these days, Skyrim is still one of favorite games and I bought it the day it released and it was flawless. I never experiened all the complaints and glitches people talk about when they talk about modern gaming, maybe they're just jealous of the success of bigger companies and they just want a piece of the action.

Games are super ambitious and creative now, and I like how actors are coming into games too, which makes games on par with hollywood movie quality and finally will be taken seriously as a narrative medium. I like you, am so happy and excited for the next gen of games. And all these losers can stick to their ancient consoles, but you and I will enjoy our games at 4k at 60 frames per second. :)

>> No.3859320
File: 361 KB, 174x172, 1333548559262.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3859320

>>3859303
I don't even think they're picking on me. If anything I'm the one picking on them for whining all the time.

I hated Skyrim though. Not that any of the Elder Scrolls were that good, but to me Skyrim is boring as fuck. I am however genuinely happy that it exists out there in the world for all the people who do like it and what it brings to the table.

That's just a small part of what's so great, the variety.

>> No.3859326
File: 19 KB, 886x78, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3859326

>>3859320
HAHAHAHA I serious response from you you piece of shit!! This is the level at which your brain works, you fucktard.

>> No.3859334
File: 827 KB, 500x347, do it.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3859334

>>3859326
I'm actually more or less seriously responding all the time. And have never been subtle about the point that I am just mocking you and your ilk for bitching about how upset modern games make you.

That doesn't make my love of modern games (games of all eras really) any less real. But your pissing and moaning about how upset DLC makes you is funny to me.

>> No.3859337

>>3859334
don't try to save yourself.

>> No.3859342

>>3859326
Incidentally if you kept talk to /vr/ and didn't pepper so many threads here with diatribes about how everything sucks now and modern games and ruined by whatever buzzword is coming out of you today I never would have started.

Now it's just fun.

>> No.3859343

>>3859337
From what? lol

>> No.3859354

>>3859342
>>3859343

I swear this guy has multiple disorders.

>> No.3859362

>>3859354
Welcome to 4chan :)

It also entertains me when you babies think I'm from Ribbit

>> No.3859378
File: 13 KB, 300x200, 300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3859378

>>3859362
>Ribbit

>> No.3859445
File: 1.73 MB, 297x222, salty frogso1_400.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3859445

>>3859378

>> No.3859640

>>3858872
>>3857757

That looks so much better than in game Vega.

>> No.3859669
File: 930 KB, 200x133, 1483481104133.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3859669

>>3842052
>see op
>expect cool tidbits from game companies
>receive 300+ posts about indie scene

oh, /vr/, you crack me up

>> No.3859687

>>3859669
Did you even read OP's post to the end? It was never supposed to be about cool tidbits, just bitching.

>> No.3859701

>>3859687
It was never about the indie scene either.

>> No.3859708

>>3859701
It was OP and them that tried to make it about that as well. It's just yet another /vr/ thread that's not about retro games, it's about how upset they are it's not the 80's or 90's anymore.

>> No.3860014
File: 63 KB, 470x275, 110121-dev-6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3860014

>>3859669
well here's something.
the writer of terranigma, soul blazer, illusion of gaia, and granstream saga, who was also vice-president of quintet vanished off the face of the fucking earth.
he and the president of quintet just disappeared.

>> No.3860036

>>3858317
implying old games were well-programmed? lol?
i think you mean gender studies classes.

>> No.3860045

>>3852129
>>3852483
This post makes no fucking sense.

>> No.3860852

>>3850021
>Tyrian
My nigger

>> No.3861152
File: 768 KB, 1578x877, superhot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3861152

>>3860045
Even when something is new and interesting and fun it still doesn't matter because reasons.

>> No.3861558

>>3844617
I don't think I've ever saved a pic quicker than this one!

>> No.3862030

>>3860014
What's weird is that Quintet still existed as a company last time I checked but it just... doesn't ever do anything.

>> No.3864016

>>3843987
I get that it's hard to understand but just because someone overpays by a huge amount for something does not mean that's the cost of that thing. If you convince a retard to hire 50 lightbulb analysts to do the same work, then throw out 49 of them and use one light-bulb for your house it doesn't mean it's worth more than a few bucks despite the fact that you spent thousands over-addressing the issue with a bloated staff and then threw out the work.

The actual cost of being able to make games at the quality these days is nowhere near as high as they give now. It's in many cases not that much higher than it was in the 90s. Cheaper possibly because it's significantly easier and cheaper to produce the assets needed. Computers are faster and easier to work with, digital art is faster to create as well as audio being cheaper with full CPU based studios basically being inexpensive enough to put in the lap of even the worst amateurs for a pittance compared to old cost. Hell, DIY soundbooths are simple enough to make by a single competent person. Scanners aren't overly complex expensive pieces of equipment assuming you don't just use a camera and rigging to that. Access to documentation for this is way more readily available at your fingertips. Most AAA titles are actually fairly poor quality in many areas, and definitely in the gameplay department and it often doesn't take more than an indie studio to basically shit on AAA engines in many ways. It's cheaper and easier to make games than it ever has been before.

>> No.3864537

>>3850772
>he doesn't fucking know who Yoko is

>> No.3865305

>>3864016
>Most AAA titles are actually fairly poor quality in many areas, and definitely in the gameplay department

What do you base this on? I see the opposite. Control schemes are on the whole more complex now than they used to be.

Monster Hunter again is a prime example of an extremely popular series that has always been based around strong, complex, interesting fast paced and fun action mechanics. And it and the game get consistently better with every iteration.

Can you give a concrete example of a AAA game now that exemplifies your claim of most of them being of fairly poor quality, and definitely in the gameplay department"

Indie games are doing incredible things though, that part I agree with you. And it's inevitable that young bright kids with new ideas will come up with cheaper or better solutions than large corporations will. But one being awesome doesn't make the other garbage.

>> No.3866542

>>3865305
>Can you give a concrete example of a AAA game now that exemplifies your claim of most of them being of fairly poor quality, and definitely in the gameplay department"

Games released from
EA
Ubisoft
Activision
Square Enix
and more

At this point it seems like you are playing stupid on purpose to not realize how dumbed down games have become over the last 10 years

>What do you base this on? I see the opposite. Control schemes are on the whole more complex now than they used to be.

Control schemes aren't game mechanics. It's looking more and more like you are casual pleb.

>> No.3866917

>>3866542
He calls monster hunter "fast paced" so, he's definitely not well acquainted with video games. Curious why he's even on a /vr/ board if he apparently doesn't even play them.

>> No.3867308

>>3866542
So I ask for specifics and you give me a list of companies and the implication of what that means is universal. This is why I don't take you seriously.

>>3866917
You really shouldn't talk about things you don't know about.

>> No.3867519

>>3860014
>Y's
fucks sake

>> No.3869926

>>3862030
They ended up taking refuge under another company over the 2000s, I forget the name of them, they had an active message board community constantly asking about quintet's next project for years, then like between 2006 and 2009 that company disappeared.

Pretty sure quintet doesn't actually exist anymore, just the paperwork telling people it doesn't was ever filed.

>> No.3871068

>>3867308
>This is why I don't take you seriously.

No need to repeat what your mother tells you, fella. We've all seen her Facebook.

>> No.3871072

>>3871068
What kind of a comeback is that even supposed to be?

>> No.3872524

>>3843031
>how about we just use an adblocker and/or tracking blocker and go wherever we want?
thats not why

>> No.3873236

>>3842358
>don't read polygon
Why?

>> No.3873240

>>3873236
They are feminists.

>> No.3873246

>>3873240
Lol okay, I thought you were going to give a real reason.

>> No.3873263

>>3873236
They're all that's left of Joystiq

>> No.3873274

>>3843480
These days most indie teams consist of all "ideas guys".

>> No.3873306

>>3873246
they constantly give lower scores to games featuring women in skimpy outfits, complain about how every japanese game is sexist, is a microsoft propaganda site (microsoft partly founded Polygon in its day with $350,000), it shoehorns politics everywhere and their concept of a "masterpiece" is gone home

>> No.3873308

>>3873274
lol

>> No.3873354

>>3865305
>Indie games are doing incredible things though

Such as? All I see are decent at best games centered on one or two interesting gimmicks and a sea of uninspired puzzle games and medroid clones.

>> No.3873360

>>3873354
I'm sure you do.

>> No.3873367

>>3873354
the only interesting "indie" games are japanese doujin games, which aren't "indie" in the Western sense. Western indie games are an embarrassment.

>> No.3873372

>>3873367
>the only interesting "indie" games are japanese doujin games
AH HA HA HA HA HA A HAH HA HA HA HAHA

>> No.3873378

>>3873372
they are, give me some examples of things you'd find interesting in the western indie scene. I'm very excited to hear about night in the woods and undertale.

>> No.3873386

>>3873360
Please refrain from responding to me with reddit shitposting, thanks.

>> No.3873397

>>3873378
I was more laughing at the part about doujin games being good. I would mention things like Darkest Dungeon, but you'd likely poo poo because it's a roguelike and they all look the same to you. Or Rive, but you shoot things in that so you'd pucker up like you ate a lemon and declare it derivative too. Just like any puzzle game must be a mindless clone even though you never played it.

At this point talking to you is basically a joke to me.

>> No.3873406

>>3873386
If you can't handle it you're on the wrong site, Kiddo. :^)

>> No.3873410

>>3873397
darkest dungeon? son I have every c88 game, including darkest dungeon. No need to act "smugly superior" when you're talking about old games. I enjoyed darkest dungeon for playing like a nice throwback to kings field. I'm talking about games like Sakuna, annika & giraffe, skylens, NSHG, etc.

>> No.3873414

>>3873410
That's nice :)

>> No.3873418

>>3873414
so you have nothing to contribute and are just a shitposting retard who thinks talking about old comiket releases is something to feel superior about.

remember how this stemmed from a disagreement over how western indie games were shit, japanese doujin circle releases were far more interesting, and you went on to name japanese doujin releases as your case for interesting western indie games?

this sure was constructive.

>> No.3873421

>>3873418
actually, my mistake. I thought darkest dungeon was dungeons & darkness, a c88 game which is far better than yet another roguelite rehash.

shit happens when names are similar. Oh well, feel free to think mediocre games are anything special.

>> No.3873423

>>3873418
Yeah this whole thread is basically a comedy mine at this point.

>> No.3873424

>>3873421
>a c88 game which is far better than yet another roguelite rehash.

And you wonder why all I ever do is make fun of you anymore.

>> No.3873427

>>3873423
western cucks ruined yet another fun thread, what a shame

>> No.3873430

>>3873424
>he doesn't want a successor to ultima underworld & kings field
enjoy your random generation flash game I guess

>> No.3873439
File: 955 KB, 500x273, mileena-mortal-kombat-animated-gif-13.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3873439

>>3873427
Yeah this great /vr/ thread that was only ever a screen to piss and moan about how upset modern gaming makes you. Such a shame!

>> No.3873441

>>3873439
it doesn't bother me, just bores me

>> No.3873449

>>3873441
>it doesn't bother me
Your eternal asspain says otherwise.

>> No.3873452

>>3873449
nothing makes a person madder than entry level steam baby garbage like darkest dungeon lmao

>> No.3873459
File: 32 KB, 226x196, fishbushperch.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3873459

>>3873452
:)

>> No.3873506

>>3873441
Same. I've played FTL, Isaac, Fez, Owlboy, and pretty much every other acclaimed indie game that releases. I always pirate them to see what the hype's about and get very bored with each of them after an hour or two. Shovel Knight had ok gameplay but man I find the whole quirky retro humor tired and bland. SRPGs are probably my favorite genre of game so I tried Banner Saga too because I heard it's amazing, but nah it was just as uninspired as everything else and the combat was barebones. Oh well, at least Ace Combat 7 is coming out and Nioh was fun.

>> No.3873518

>>3873506
>I always pirate them to see what the hype's about and get very bored with each of them after an hour

lol

>> No.3873543

>>3873518
Did you finally break?

>> No.3873552

>>3873246
oh never mind I thought you were smart

>> No.3873553

>>3873543
That bit was just extra funny to me. He played FTL for an hour at best. It's like the reverse of all those 15 year olds who download a ROM dump of every NES game ever. Then play each for a few minutes, not enough to learn the game, just enough to get annoyed and then declare the whole system is shit.

It's great. This is all great.

>> No.3873605

>>3873553
Actually I beat the game twice. 100%'d Isaac, too, which is an alright game but I put it down after that. But yeah, we're all raging mad 10-year-olds for finding indie games less than stellar.

>> No.3873619

>>3873605
Why did you beat FTL twice and 100% Isaac if you got bored after an hour or two?

>> No.3873620

>>3873605
>But yeah, we're all raging mad 10-year-olds for finding indie games less than stellar.

Nice reading comprehension.

>> No.3873737

>>3873620
See >>3873439, your bantz needs work.

>>3873619
Beating FTL twice only took a couple hours and Isaac was an example of an indie title I actually liked for a while. I beat Shovel Knight, too. The vast majority I drop an hour or two in out of boredom. And no, there are no super amazing mechanics I'm missing in these games I drop. I just don't like them after an honest try.

>> No.3873754

>>3873737
lols those were both me. You suck at reading, Kiddo.

>> No.3873765

>>3873754
Ok, I see you've devolved into full newfag shitposting. You've been replying for a fortnight, buddy. Take a break and check on your whale of a wife and the newest epic pixel metroidvania. You clearly don't belong here.

>> No.3873790
File: 1.92 MB, 480x270, mhlybaG1tqtadjo8_500.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3873790

>>3873765
>You clearly don't belong here.
Still trying that eh? I simply stopped putting as much effort into my replies, but I still find your upset entertaining. A fortnight goes by fast on 4chan. Time flies when you're having fun, as they say.

>> No.3873884

>>3873790
That's good, you're learning. Your inane walls of text ITT are embarrassing. I can only imagine what a pathetic visage you and your wife must make. Perhaps it's time to put down those silly indie games and join a gym. Be warned though, unlike that new walking sim, it will take some work.

This post is by an anon other than the one you previously replied to. I know you struggle with this. Consider suicide ;^)

>> No.3873896

>>3873884
lol neither of us are fat, but gold star for coming up with a new random insult to throw around at least. If you actually just talked about retro games here and not "retro games are good because modern games are SJW faggot cancer!" I wouldn't mock you so much. But you do, and it's fun.

I still don't care if it's 1 or 10 people, you're all the same to me.

>> No.3874673
File: 331 KB, 640x480, 1364361076283.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3874673

This might be the most /v/ thread I've ever seen on /vr/

God damn this place has gone to shit.

>> No.3875539

>>3844481
>Odallus
My negro.

Vagante is also pretty fun in multiplayer, think Zelda 2 (play the knight) but vertical and with equipment variety.

Bot Vice has a terrible title and YMMV on the voice acting (cringe?), but play it on hard and it's a joint wrecking 180BPM heartrate kind of bullet hell game. It's like a really good modern Wild Guns. But seriously, play it on hard.

I also put 70hrs into Dungeon of the Endless. Good obscure game from smallish studio, or at least they were. It isn't vr but the pixel art is a throwback.

>> No.3875594
File: 77 KB, 384x384, 1485661597302.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3875594

>>3873896
>neither of us are fat

>> No.3876661

>>3875594
lol so you're upset random insult #982 didn't work either?

>> No.3877451

>>3873367
And you are a "weeaboo"

>> No.3877458

>>3874673
It's probably because numale /v/irgins read that we had a thread about this here

>> No.3877845
File: 29 KB, 480x720, Kagemusha.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3877845

>>3877451

>> No.3877858

>>3877458
I know, right? Who defends indie games THIS hard?

>> No.3877864

>>3877858
People who enjoy them :^)

>> No.3877884
File: 31 KB, 598x448, 1490275426861.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3877884

>>3877864

>> No.3877913 [SPOILER] 
File: 157 KB, 1600x912, 1490279050387.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3877913

>>3877884
Give me one good reason.

>> No.3880380
File: 42 KB, 520x416, 1399461726156.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3880380

>This whole thread
Sure is /v/ in here.

>> No.3880391

>>3880380
It's 4chan.

>> No.3881905

>>3843480
D E V I L D A G G E R S
you fucking mongoloid

>> No.3882257

>>3848393
You're a fag. Fez is literally plagiarized from Tower Toppler and a few other games. That's what REALLY gets me about you "BUT INDIE WILL SAVE DA GAMEZ INDUHSTRY" faggots. Most of this shit is all derivative of popular games when these so-called devs were kids. There are very few real original ideas coming from the modern indie scene. For fuck sake, how many 2D dark souls clones have been squatted out on Steam lately? I'm not even saying they're all shit, but your post makes you sound like you're underaged and lack the necessary gaming experience to even have a qualified opinion on the subject.

>> No.3882261

>>3849315
You're an idiot, and you're both obviously fucking trolling. Anyone who grew up with a DOS based PC doesn't even need to ask that question.

>> No.3882263

>>3881905
ahahaha he said good not disposable indie shit

>> No.3882268

>>3850021
Before that, Wolfenstein 3D, Jill of the Jungle, Duke Nukum, Secret Agent, One Must Fall, Solar Winds, Blake Stone, Overkill, Zone 66, Sango Fighter, Hocus Pocus, Captain Comic, Bushido, etc, etc, etc.

>> No.3882270

>>3850774
Only if you're an easily impressed moron who's never played the games Fish ripped off to make it.

>> No.3882648

>>3882270
Which games are those?

>> No.3882659

>>3882257
Tower Toppler is a platformer, FEZ isn't. Aside from a similar aesthetic they have virtually nothing in common at all. Idiots like you who talk about the game and dismiss it like you know everything about it when you clearly never even played it.

It's a puzzle solving/crytography game. It's not a platformer or action game in any way. You just happen to navigate it's world by walking and jumping. You could replace every jump with a bridge or ramp and it would barely change the actual game. Despite outward appearance, it's much, much, much more like Myst than Tower Topper.

>> No.3882892

>>3858317
Game design courses are 90% programming, much less art base than you probably think. They sound like a lot of fun.

>> No.3883045

>>3842052
I still laugh whenever I remember that story of the id crew having to break down a door in the office that they couldn't get open, and Carmack running off to fetch his battleaxe to do it (because of course he owned one)

>> No.3883232

>>3882659
>myst suck shitpost incoming

>> No.3883891

>>3882659
Fez and Myst are totally different faggot

>> No.3884545
File: 262 KB, 1920x1200, fez_screenshots_2013-08-20_00003.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3884545

>>3883891
Indeed Myst and Fez are very, very different. But that's the the thing, there really isn't anything else quite like Fez, but Myst is at least a similar kind of game. You explore an environment and use what you gather from your surroundings to solve puzzles and move forward. Where as Tower Topper isn't really similar in any way.

I do understand some of the disappointment people had with it. I think because the aesthetic is reminiscent of Cave Story and you navigate the world in a old school platformer style that many people expected that's the kind of game it was going to be.

People were expecting a standard action platformer with a perspective shifting twist, but it could hardly be father from that. I love it, but puzzle games like this were never as popular as platformers and the kind of game it is was never going to appeal to the masses.

This is what I love about indie games development though, you can have a game like Fez that's pretty weird and maybe doesn't appeal to a lot of people and even get panned by many, but it's still a success and adored by those who did want that kind of game.

>> No.3884664

>>3843480
Because indie devs aren't company men. The missing ingredient is "Your skills are new and will not get you a job in any other industry but this one; if you fuck up, you will be fired and have zero job prospects. Best have this game ready by holiday." being yelled at you every day.

As much as people try to pretend that "doujin game" is different than an indie game, most indie games are made by enthusiasts and not people whose complete livelihoods are based on creating a relatively new niche product in a climate where you had to come up with something completely new. Even if Shovel Knight/Cave Story had come out in the 80s/90, there wouldn't have been anything TOO revolutionary about them; they'd just be Top 50 Games material.

>> No.3884724

>>3884664
>Even if Shovel Knight/Cave Story had come out in the 80s/90, there wouldn't have been anything TOO revolutionary about them;

That's in large part because they're throwbacks by design. Shovel Knight could almost be a massive Mega Man romhack and Cave Story is a retro love letter. If a magical downport of something like Terraria appeared on SNES in 1993 it would have been very revolutionary.

It is hard to make something that's both completely new and good at the same time though, it's true. Most people try for a mix, and as with all things the result is often less than perfect. But the more stabs there are, the more chances there are for one to get it get it right on.

>> No.3886218

>>3883045
Id was a crazy fucking place back then. Game dev needs more cocaine again.

>> No.3886563

>>3844617
>tfw I thought this was a picture of Chun Li the whole time.

>> No.3886667

>>3850772
most of the greatest japanese /vr/ musicians were women though

like a big part of capcom's sound team were women

>> No.3886976

>>3886563
It is though

>> No.3887039

>>3882268
>Solar Winds
Damn I used to play that on school computers!

>> No.3887647

>>3886218
The rockstar lifestyle and paychecks are what killed development. Money was made and larger teams were created to make more money and the fun was over. You have the occasional rogue dev team but all the code bros that can make it happen fucked off into more lucrative fields like search engine design and data analysis.

>> No.3888678

>>3887647
>Money was made and larger teams were created to make more money and the fun was over.

Holy shit you're retarded.

>> No.3888936
File: 529 KB, 600x600, carmork.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3888936

>>3883045
Ohh to be a fly on the wall.

>> No.3890630

>>3873506
>I always pirate them to see what the hype's about and get very bored with each of them after an hour or two.
>>3873605
>Actually I beat the game twice. 100%'d Isaac, too,
>in under and hour each

This thread was so great.

>> No.3890641

>>3890630
Are you retarded?

>> No.3890680

>>3890641
Are you going to claim that's two different people with the second just happening to reply as if he's the same person? Go for it.

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