>when you realize the ps1 didn't even have correct texture mapping

File: 41 KB, 1000x352, Perspective_correct_texture_mapping.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat Feb 25 18:42:15 2017 No.3822537 [Reply] [Original]

>when you realize the ps1 didn't even have correct texture mapping

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 18:44:34 2017 No.3822542 I owned a Playstation, not a "psx", so I didn't have this problem.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 18:53:29 2017 No.3822572 File: 91 KB, 316x399, 9667cccb3a0e456a3b3daf8e5fbd251b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3822537 >Implying I don't emulate with double internal resolution and a texture fix.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 18:57:36 2017 No.3822580 >>3822542 >trying to be facetious >responding to an abbreviation the OP didn't even use Tryhard underage: the post.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 18:59:19 2017 No.3822585 >>3822537 Does a PS3 do this playing a PS game?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:00:29 2017 No.3822589 IT'S PART OF THE CHARM

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:00:51 2017 No.3822590 >>3822580 It says psx right in the OP picture you dumb cunt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:06:40 2017 No.3822604 >>3822585 Yeah

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:07:51 2017 No.3822607 File: 133 KB, 256x256, LSD_Coverart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3822537 gee orly does it matter in this game?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:08:02 2017 No.3822608 >>3822537 Is it the playstation's turn to get some irrational hate? Good, the poor n64 could use a break from that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:20:06 2017 No.3822651 >>3822608 No, soon enough someone is going to point out that even though the N64 has proper 3D hardware, the anti-aliasing looks terrible. Which it does. On a LCD. It looks amazing on CRT screens.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:26:10 2017 No.3822674 File: 3.00 MB, 426x240, Tekken 3 Attract.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >waaah mama Playstation is LITERALLY unplayable

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:28:45 2017 No.3822684 >>3822674 Man, look at all that texture jitter.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:41:34 2017 No.3822726 >>3822537 >when you realize emulators have fixed this issue since last year

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:50:32 2017 No.3822767 >>3822542 Your autism is showing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:52:06 2017 No.3822774 >>3822726 Emulators having nothing to do with console wars. Thats why its called console wars, not emulator wars.

Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:56:39 2017 No.3822792

>>3822774
In that case the playstation's 240p resolution made texture shimmering barely noticable, at best straight lines were wonky.

>>3822607
LSD is very cheap on the 3D production value so all of the playstation's worst flaws are at their most prominent here

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 19:57:19 2017 No.3822795 >>3822774 >emulator wars >zsnes vs bsnes vs.snes9x >jnes vs fceux >pj64 vs 1964 >epsxe vs PSX >everyone vs mednafen >everyone vs retroarch You haven't SEEN emulator threads, anon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 20:04:07 2017 No.3822813 >>3822651 Sure, if you like vaseline smeared all over your screen. And somehow the in game models looked way more primitive than what was capable on the playstation. The n64 didn't even have proper 3d hardware. It was gimped through and through.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 20:18:32 2017 No.3822836 >>3822795 I'm really glad we don't get many zsnes vs bsnes threads anymore those were the most insane things I've ever seen. Like seriously, what kind of fucking autist actually uses _snes?

Anonymous Sat Feb 25 20:34:01 2017 No.3822872

>>3822537
it's cheap 3D hardware designed in '93 and then sold at the end of 94, emphasis on cheap
its primary goal is to slam as many polygons on screen at the pricepoint they set, quality be damned, and it succeeds wildly at that

by 1996 when 3D accelerators (actually good 3D accelerators) are on the consumer market, the PS1's issues are more glaring (consumers now know what good 3D rendering should look like), but it's still shitting on the competition due to its cost and library

>>3822813
the N64 absolutely has proper 3D hardware -- but the whole system is bottlenecked because Nintendo was a bunch of stupid bastards (high latency RAM is the most obvious -- there's no point in having a 90MHz CPU that spends all of its time waiting on memory access), N64 games should have like thrice the performance they do given the fact that the system is pretty much made from otherwise high-specced parts

if anyone else designed a system around the same chipset as the N64, it would likely have been easier to work with and faster

>>3822795
why are half of these a thing
>snes9x on slower machines, bsnes otherwise, there's no actual reason to use bsnes over a recent snes9x if you aren't running the max compatibility profile (byuu's own words) since they have comparable compatibility but bsnes is more CPU intensive
>neither, nestopia
>pj64
>epsxe, pSX crashes on like half the library

the valid ones are
>mednafen
the lack of UI is retarded (honestly, 90% of complaints would go away if all the thing did was open a file dialog if it's launched without anything on the command line)
also, the author is kind of autistic about disc images, so shit that would burn and play fine on the real machine once you get it to boot, mednafen will toss out and bitch at
>retroarch
the UI is needlessly retarded (things that should be configurable aren't, navigating files is appalling, it's just a mess)

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 20:38:01 2017 No.3822885 >>3822872 >why are half of these a thing Because it baits autists into responding.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 20:38:10 2017 No.3822886 >>3822872 >bad UIs the hallmark of a REAL programmer

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 20:45:49 2017 No.3822895 File: 411 KB, 1280x1256, 0T13cNM.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3822886 Whatever you say, Xod. Just make a god damned front-end.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 20:47:54 2017 No.3822903 File: 21 KB, 443x332, images-131.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How would you even make a game like vagrant story with good graphics? The rough textures add to the tone

Anonymous Sat Feb 25 20:52:44 2017 No.3822916
File: 2.88 MB, 1400x4525, psx nope.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3822542
>I owned a Playstation, not a "psx", so I didn't have this problem.

In that case you either owned a Playstation 2, or got a Playstation 1 after the 2 was released.

pre-PS2, the Playstation was PSX.

Anonymous Sat Feb 25 21:03:42 2017 No.3822941

>>3822795
>zsnes vs bsnes vs.snes9x
Bsnes is autistic hipster tier. At best it's good for development; but if you are into that you should get a flash cart instead.
Snes9x is probably okay, but I haven't used it since 2004 or so.
Zsnes is obviously the worst choice compatibility wise, but it runs the 2-3 snes games I still occasionally play that have not gotten better ports on other systems. And I already have it set up fully, so I have no reason to switch. Yeah, it won't run some no-one-cares looney tunes game or does not show up the shadows in a chopper game, I could care less.

>jnes vs fceux
Whichever emulates the Dendy Jr better is the winner.

>pj64 vs 1964
They both suck, and I'm sure that no one can disagree with that.

>epsxe vs PSX
PSX is better in general because it is way easier to use. Unless you need to run the handful of games that glitch up, or you are a graphics whore. In case of the latter, you probably aren't playing PSX games to begin with.

>everyone vs mednafen
>everyone vs retroarch
They probably suck less than MESS does.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 21:06:11 2017 No.3822948 >>3822872 >by 1996 when 3D accelerators (actually good 3D accelerators) are on the consumer market, the PS1's issues are more glaring They weren't glaring because games usually ran at 384x224 on a 15khz CRT TV.

Anonymous Sat Feb 25 21:15:56 2017 No.3822971
File: 51 KB, 640x472, ps1box.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3822916
Is this revisionist history or are you fucking with him?

I bought a ps1 in the US in 98, well before the release of the ps2, and almost everyone I knew just called it the Playstation. PSX was the common abbreviation in magazines, but nobody used it in conversation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 21:19:49 2017 No.3822981 >>3822941 You missed >Sony vs BLEEM! What a tale that is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 21:22:35 2017 No.3822990 >>3822916 i'm glad some autist went and assembled this collage, the "playstation 1 was never called psx by anyone ever" meme has ran its course and needs to be put to rest

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 21:24:39 2017 No.3822998 >>3822537 The fucked up textures made everything look surreal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 21:48:39 2017 No.3823054 >>3822971 There was little reason to call it a PSX when it was the only Playstation. After the PS2 hit, we used PSX all the time at the store I worked at, mainly to differentiate from PS1, that small little thing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 21:53:17 2017 No.3823063 >>3822684 >REEEEEEE CHECK YOUR NEXT GEN PRIVILEGE REEEEEEEEE

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 22:02:07 2017 No.3823078 >>3823063 Don't even need the next gen. N64 and Saturn had none of that shit. Or maybe you're right. The Playstation was last gen hardware when it was released.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 22:03:28 2017 No.3823082 >>3822916 Nope

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 22:21:51 2017 No.3823135 Dammit, now I hate all of my favorite games!

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 22:41:11 2017 No.3823174 File: 304 KB, 1024x768, SimCity2000 (16).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I see nothing wrong

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 22:45:02 2017 No.3823187 File: 238 KB, 1024x768, modern innsmouth tour.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Nothing wrong

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 22:46:06 2017 No.3823192 File: 367 KB, 1024x768, like LSD but worse.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 22:49:38 2017 No.3823203 >>3823174 >>3823187 >>3823192 wow that's really avant-garde gehryian architecture this game was ahead of its time

Anonymous Sat Feb 25 23:06:00 2017 No.3823237
File: 78 KB, 941x674, PS-X.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3822971
>Is this revisionist history or are you fucking with him?

No it's not.
The consoles original codename was PS-X.
Magazines kept calling it PSX for pretty much its entire lifetime. Sony always called it Playstation. The only time it was called PS1 was when they released that mini model (the psOne).

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 25 23:07:03 2017 No.3823240 >>3823174 >>3823187 >>3823192 I can see the problem, you are using a shitfest of an upscaled emulator output. Put that in a real console and take screenshots from your CRT TV.

Anonymous Sat Feb 25 23:21:05 2017 No.3823256

>>3822872
>by 1996 when 3D accelerators (actually good 3D accelerators) are on the consumer market
There were no good 3D accelerators on the consumer market in 1996. Voodoo became retail available in 1997. Every 3D accelerator before it was mediocre at best.

>high latency RAM is the most obvious
No, single channel memory is the most obvious. All of the N64's issues would be immediately fixed with the inclusion of a second memory channel.
Every single one. High latency only exacerbated a difficult situation for coders. The only RAM in the world thacowan suitable for use in a single channel configuration was RDRAM, and high latency is a characteristic of it.

Nintendo weren't stupid, only very greedy.

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 00:24:22 2017 No.3823373
File: 1.01 MB, 1920x1080, PSOGL2_063.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3823240
The game still looks awful on original hardware, actually even worse, as it is more pixelated and the textures are even more fucked up thanks to aliasing and Moiré effect.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 00:36:58 2017 No.3823402 >>3823373 >>3823192 >>3823187 >>3823174 This game looks awful regardless of texture mapping, what the fuck

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 01:21:11 2017 No.3823481 >>3822537 >graphics whoring in modern consoles >"shut up and go back to your call of duty" >graphics whoring in retro consoles >perfectly fine for some unexplained reason

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 01:45:55 2017 No.3823540 File: 152 KB, 564x1166, 1458895835362.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3822537

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 02:48:48 2017 No.3823674 >>3823237 >Unicode String PFFHAHAHAHA

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 03:10:54 2017 No.3823739 File: 4 KB, 960x459, sad pepe affine.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] TFW mo gf because affine mapped

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 03:13:48 2017 No.3823748 Kinda neat. So that's why they look bendy and like ass.

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 03:40:01 2017 No.3823794
File: 96 KB, 602x618, ps1_dithering.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3822813
>if you like vaseline smeared all over your screen
That's the N64's dither filtering. It's to reduce color banding. PS1 does exactly the same thing, except that older models of the console wouldn't dither filter textures so there would be banding.

N64's dither filter, however, goes a step further than PS1 by also attempting to filter out moiré patterns. Rayman 2 on N64 has an option allowing you to turn off the filter by setting video to "Sharp", so it's easily to see the moiré patterns the filter is trying to eliminate.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 03:52:11 2017 No.3823807 File: 129 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] why is this allowed?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 04:02:16 2017 No.3823827 >>3823540 As a programmer I sometimes wish I didn't know how computationally expensive divisions are.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 04:10:23 2017 No.3823834 >>3823807 saturn > shitstation

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 04:12:04 2017 No.3823836 >>3823807 Why is the ground texture completely fucked?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 04:21:13 2017 No.3823843 File: 46 KB, 640x427, Console_psx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3822542 Why is the PS1 often referred to as "PSX" anyway? When I think of PSX I think of this machine.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 04:26:02 2017 No.3823848 >>3823843 >>3822916 >>3822916 >>3822916 >>3822916

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 04:33:29 2017 No.3823857 >>3823843 Because you're underage.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:09:26 2017 No.3823907 >>3823794 What is this picture saying? Are late model PlayStations better?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:16:47 2017 No.3823912 >>3822537 >When you realize that the Saturn had better texture mapping than the Playstation

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:22:02 2017 No.3823920 >>3823907 Yes, they actually dither filter textures properly.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:24:01 2017 No.3823927 >>3823920 Is there any info about this anywhere?

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:26:50 2017 No.3823929

>>3823927
Can't find the link right now but the difference is due to older PS1s blend textures in 15 bit precision, while newer blend in the full 24 bit precision. The missing color data causes banding because you can't dither 15 bit color into 15 bit color since it's already 15 bit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:29:49 2017 No.3823934 >>3823929 Also, I remember seeing something about early PlayStations playing CD audio with amazing quality or something. Do you have any idea if that applies to games too or if it's just better when playing audio off a CD?

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:33:50 2017 No.3823940

>>3823934
Earlier PS1 models have a higher quality DAC than later models. This will benefit all audio that comes out of the console.

However, there's two catches. The first is many models have the same high quality DAC, not just the oldest PS1s with RCA sockets. The second is that quality of this DAC isn't nearly as high as the meme suggests. It's exactly the same kind you'd expect put into a $300 mid-90s CD-player and no better.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:34:33 2017 No.3823941 >>3823934 >Also, I remember seeing something about early PlayStations playing CD audio with amazing quality or something Audiophiles going crazy over PS1s were one of the better outcomes of the PSX-launch.

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:35:57 2017 No.3823946

>>3823940
>The second is that quality of this DAC isn't nearly as high as the meme suggests. It's exactly the same kind you'd expect put into a $300 mid-90s CD-player and no better.
Yeah, it's just that it'd be really disappointing if there's no definitive way to experience the PlayStation. Are there any models with the good audio and dithering or is that not a thing?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:42:44 2017 No.3823948 >>3823946 >Are there any models with the good audio and dithering or is that not a thing? Yes there are. If the model number is SCPH followed by a 5 then it'll have both for sure.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 05:43:08 2017 No.3823950 >>3822542 Oh well Playstation had that problem too, dumbcunt.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 06:01:58 2017 No.3823967 >>3823794 >>3823907 So, playing with a old Bios (like the psfat instead of slim) in a emulator can be a problem or this is a entirely separated option?

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 06:07:30 2017 No.3823970

>>3823967
It's got nothing to do with the BIOS. Sony actually made changes to the physical GPU hardware between older and newer consoles.

Most emulators don't even attempt to replicate this dithering part of hardware anyway. They just render games in 32-bit color, way higher than the real console was capable of.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 06:33:02 2017 No.3823984 >>3823912 Well, AFAIK, Saturn texturing wasn't different much from PSX, but quads helped.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 07:05:31 2017 No.3823994 >>3823950 triggered much dumb cunt? top kek

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 07:27:18 2017 No.3824010 >>3823237 whatever the name it's still better than the ultra64. i have a soft spot for the dolphin, but man, it was a crazy name for a console though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 08:00:06 2017 No.3824054 >>3822537 I don't like the graphics of the PS1 or N64

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 10:12:53 2017 No.3824229 >>3822537 Playstation actually had good games though so it didn't matter

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 10:19:31 2017 No.3824247 >>3823674 The hell are you on about you nut? That's not unicode

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 11:24:52 2017 No.3824369 >>3822537 Rarely noticeable at PSX resolution anyways.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 11:26:57 2017 No.3824371 >>3824247 He's a /pol/ack laughing about the swastika.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 11:33:47 2017 No.3824378 File: 13 KB, 342x319, 1473644270106.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3824371 Oooooh. Heh, that's pretty funny

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 11:36:52 2017 No.3824380 >>3822792 >playstation's 240p resolution made texture shimmering barely noticable I disagree. I remember being absolutely baffled by moving textures in Tenchu and Spyro. It wasn't until very recently that I found out why.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 11:54:40 2017 No.3824404 File: 1.88 MB, 480x360, reaver.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3824369 >Rarely noticeable at PSX resolution anyways. bullshit, even in this tiny clip you can see it and soul reaver is one of the lesser offenders all things considered

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 12:36:29 2017 No.3824462 >>3822916 there some games backcovers with "psx software" thing too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 13:22:39 2017 No.3824534 >>3823540 cool, somebody saved this from a year or two ago when I made it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 13:35:26 2017 No.3824547 >>3824534 you didn't make it

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 13:45:12 2017 No.3824558 File: 31 KB, 640x480, TR1 screen006.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3822537 The very first time I plugged it in and turned it on. Some amazing games on that system, but hard to look at.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 13:46:27 2017 No.3824565 The problem with the PS1's texture warping isn't the effect itself, it's that the only way to minimize it is to "waste" polygons and tessellate every surface. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuH7RDIDZN4

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 13:48:38 2017 No.3824571 >>3824565 It's the reason draw distances are uniformly shit on the console unless games took the Spyro approach and just dropped textures from anything distant to the camera

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 13:56:27 2017 No.3824582 >>3824571 >>3824565 meanwhile Saturn can draw a highly detailed and perspective-correct plane stretching to the horizon without breaking a sweat

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 13:59:27 2017 No.3824587 >>3824582 Sure, as long as it's perfectly flat

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 14:16:16 2017 No.3824608 Then again, PGXP (for the PCSXR emulator) exists.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 14:26:28 2017 No.3824627 >>3824565 >meme video created by ninfags It's wrong though. not a single PSX game warps textures when they're closer to the camera.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 14:29:11 2017 No.3824631 >>3824627 >PSX

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 14:30:28 2017 No.3824635 >>3824608 ePSXe exists too. Had a perspective fix not too long ago.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 14:32:20 2017 No.3824637 >>3824635 How about vertex precision?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 14:39:30 2017 No.3824647 >>3824627 They wouldn't warp it that badly, because they don't let a single polygon take up half the screen like SM64 does. But it does happen. Play Tenchu or Jet Moto 3.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:03:10 2017 No.3825231 >>3824587 Aren't all planes?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:16:31 2017 No.3825268 >>3822916 but why?

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:37:12 2017 No.3825318

>>3824627
that's pretty wrong, but that video overdoes it -- none of the polygons should stretch quite so much (since the vertex coordinates should be clipped to the screen boundaries instead of going way offscreen)
the warping issue is heavily mitigated on the PS1 by the fact that games there subdivide flat stretches into multiple polygons (there's nothing on the machine that looks remotely as bad as that video because of that factor like that poster said)

>>3823256
didn't the OG Voodoo come out in '96?
like, I'm sure most people bough theirs in '97, but I'm pretty sure the card did come out in 1996

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:41:27 2017 No.3825330 >>3822585 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:42:29 2017 No.3825334 >>3822971 >I was 7 years old in 1998 Everyone called it the PSX until the PSone came out

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:44:06 2017 No.3825339 >>3825334 I called it the PlayStation or "Play" for short. If I had to shorten it in written form, I would have used PS.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:44:10 2017 No.3825340 >>3822537 We called it a PSX in the store where I sold the fucking things back in 1995

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:44:43 2017 No.3825342 >>3825339 >Play Brazillian pls

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:47:17 2017 No.3825347 >>3825340 Well, it was not the official term. You were retarded. >>3825342 Chilean, actually.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 20:55:09 2017 No.3825370 File: 28 KB, 480x600, FB_IMG_1487560935787.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3825347 "La play" mantains it's use to this day in our long shitty country

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 21:01:05 2017 No.3825379 >>3825370 who are these people?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 21:06:24 2017 No.3825387 >>3825379 Characters from Trailer Park Boys.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 21:36:33 2017 No.3825424 >>3822590 doesnt mean OP made the image you mouthbreather

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 21:42:14 2017 No.3825434 >>3824631 >>3822916

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 21:55:48 2017 No.3825450 >>3824635 >ePSXe exists too. Had a perspective fix not too long ago. No, it only has anti-jitter. Not texture perspective correction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NDJQ9LA2Vw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsTKzKYy_2g

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 21:56:08 2017 No.3825452

>>3825347
>Well, it was not the official term. You were retarded.
Fuck off, no one cares about your ability to make things "official". You are the only retarded one here.

We all called them PSX, PS, and PlayStation interchangeably. I remember reading magazines that called it a PSX. It's a PSX. It always will be a PSX.

PSX PSX PSX. Triggered now?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 22:10:03 2017 No.3825484 >>3822537 but your pic isn't even right faggot.

Anonymous Sun Feb 26 22:29:04 2017 No.3825504
File: 2.17 MB, 320x240, Rage Racer paid billboard advertising.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3825450
Showing off perspective correction with a level that has virtually no textures, nice one. If we're doing this then I'll post some PGXP too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71ZEXxu_9ag

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 22:42:03 2017 No.3825535 >>3824565 >Exaggerated Strawman vid!

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 23:08:41 2017 No.3825597 >>3825318 >didn't the OG Voodoo come out in '96 It did for OEMs. So you could technically buy a premade system with a Voodoo inside in 96, but not for an existing system until 97 which is when the card got a retail release.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 26 23:16:59 2017 No.3825620 >>3824565 >>3824627 Egoraptor: "psx was never good " Nintentoddler jihad rages on

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 07:49:36 2017 No.3826338 >>3825452 i think you need to calm down.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 08:06:28 2017 No.3826350 why would they bother wasting money on perspective correct textures? they knew their target audience was gonna be perpetually sorted for e's and whizz and off their noggin largin' it in ibiza - they'd never knowtice.

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 09:08:55 2017 No.3826432

>>3825268
PlayStation had a negative reaction in focus groups because of the Play Station project they were supposed to fulfill with Nintendo. The fans weren't very keen of Sony for that.

PSX was dropped from NA marketing though. Enthusiasts still used the term because it struck a chord with the radical attitude of the 90s.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 09:16:43 2017 No.3826441 >>3822916 >someone wasted time to make this picture Hah. Anyway, nah, magazine publications calling it "PSX" still doesn't mean the console was called PSX officially. It's PS, nerd.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 09:18:50 2017 No.3826442 >>3826432 >it struck a chord with the radical attitude of the 90s. I still think this is the only reason why people insist on the "PSX" nickname, because it's "cool" (it's really not)

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 10:56:29 2017 No.3826612 File: 40 KB, 402x268, 1487340807854.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3826350 >their target audience was gonna be perpetually sorted for e's and whizz and off their noggin largin' it in ibiza - they'd never knowtice.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:01:39 2017 No.3826629 >>3823843 because it was called as PSX, see >>3823237 The PS2 DVR machine is what they recycled the codename for.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:05:27 2017 No.3826640 >>3826441 Why are we talking about Phantasy Star?

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:05:58 2017 No.3826641

>>3823934
It's complete bullshit. Early models use a different DAC but the audio quality difference is imperceptible unless you run audiophile grade setup (in which case you are spending $10k on placebo).

What is true is that the early models had RCA out, which produced cleaner signal because the cables didn't have shitloads of interference from each other.

>>3823946
>Yeah, it's just that it'd be really disappointing if there's no definitive way to experience the PlayStation. Are there any models with the good audio and dithering or is that not a thing?

Get the last models with the non-suicidal cd drive, and apply a S/PDIF mod in them. Now the DAC quality of the console will not matter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:07:49 2017 No.3826645 >>3826640 Because some faggots insist that there is a Phantasy Star X

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:11:04 2017 No.3826653

>>3825597
>So you could technically buy a premade system with a Voodoo inside in 96, but not for an existing system until 97 which is when the card got a retail release.

Yeah but you couldn't buy a separate RDP chip in 1996 either, only a premade system by Nintendo with an RDP inside.

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:12:27 2017 No.3826661

>>3826441
>Anyway, nah, magazine publications calling it "PSX" still doesn't mean the console was called PSX officially.

Nobody said it was the official name.

Just that it was the unofficial name which by everyone referred to it.

Seriously look up some FAQs from the 90s, tons of them call the system PSX.

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:23:59 2017 No.3826698

>>3826653
It's a fairly moot point considering all of the Glide patches came out in early 97 anyway at the same time as the retail release. You could have the OEM card but absolutely nothing to play using it.

Same reason N64 and RCP were held back until 96, despite the hardware being ready in 95. Games weren't ready.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:27:33 2017 No.3826712 >>3826698 "games weren't ready" was the marketing speak for "we have manufacturing problems".

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 11:34:29 2017 No.3826720 >>3826712 To be fair, they were aiming to use the then-new 350nm die shrink while was a pretty radical move. 3dfx opted for the Voodoo, which was released ~6 months later to continue to use the older 500nm process.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 12:11:16 2017 No.3826790 >>3826661 PlayStation or PS or PSOne

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 12:37:21 2017 No.3826831 >>3826629 that screenshot proves nothing, faggot. or do you play ultra64 and dolphin?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 12:40:22 2017 No.3826839 >>3826612 daft cunt

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 12:48:28 2017 No.3826851 >>3826790 you might've not called ps1 "psx" yourself, but there were a ton of people who did, including developers and journalists, and that's exactly what the collage proves

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 12:55:39 2017 No.3826862
File: 147 KB, 745x571, ps.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3826851
>developers
More like publishers, and just a handful of them, and only during the early days of the PS.

If you use Yahoo Auctions and other japanese auction sites to buy video games, you'd know japanese have been using the official "PS" since forever, pic related.
PD: "SS" is obviously Sega Saturn.

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 13:05:19 2017 No.3826887

>>3826862
no-one said "psx" is the only legitimate abbreviation for playstation
the only point here is that "psx" is just as viable abbreviation as "ps1" or "ps" - it was widely used in the past in different territories and the actual product that went by name literally "psx" is literally irrelevant everywhere, so confusion is impossible, especially on this board where talking about things released post 1999 is limited by the rules
so yes
"no one called it the PSX" is an incorrect statement
that's all there is to it

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 13:14:41 2017 No.3826904 I love that this has devolved into a PS vs PSX argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 13:16:55 2017 No.3826907 >>3823794 I can't believe I didn't know this. Thanks anon. Been using old model Playstations exclusively

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 13:38:27 2017 No.3826945 >>3826862 Developers did call it PSX, partially because the early dev kits were called PSX tools as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 16:19:30 2017 No.3827327 >>3824534 don't steal credit from other people's work, assfag

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 18:50:16 2017 No.3827616 >>3823540 for the right, the result should be "accuracy sacrificed in favour of extremely high texturing speeds, resulting in high pixel fillrate / polygon throughput".

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 19:17:09 2017 No.3827714

>>3827327
Who's the assfag, the guy claiming he made something, or the guy claiming he's stealing someone else's work with zero idea who made it?

>>3827616
Rereading it after so long, the wording is terrible. I must have made that shit fast. Of course the thread this was originally posted in had context to put the image in perspective (bah-da-tish). It was prolly one of those mode7 threads that quickly gets out of hand because 95% of posters don't have a clue about what they are talking about.

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 19:37:57 2017 No.3827768
File: 64 KB, 564x935, 1458895835291.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3827616
I actually found a second version out in the wild. I definitely remember misspelling hardware etc, but my memory is a bit more murky on the interpolation formulas. This one more clearly states the pros and cons.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 19:44:12 2017 No.3827775 >>3827616 fuck off apologist

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 22:05:48 2017 No.3828007 >>3827768 >I definitely remember misspelling hardware Your rendition of "inaccurate" was inaccurate too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 22:20:52 2017 No.3828026 File: 190 KB, 1500x352, texts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3822537 >when the pot calls the kettle

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 22:23:04 2017 No.3828027 >>3822916 I'm still baffled that spaniards didn't call it "Juegoestacion"

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 22:26:48 2017 No.3828031 It honestly appalls me that Sony thought this was acceptable. It doesn't come across like an acceptable cost-saving measure - it looks really bad. Sloppy and just incorrect. Like a car without windows or something equally dumb.

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 23:07:51 2017 No.3828116

>>3828031
Would you call FF9 and Crono Cross's graphics bad? It's more a matter of developers understanding how to bring out the most of limited hardware, as opposed to amateur shit like this >>3823187.

They got a cheap system to market that was easy to develop for with acceptable graphics tradeoffs and the rest is history.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 23:14:44 2017 No.3828136 >>3828026 N64 only looks like that on LCD screens.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 23:36:34 2017 No.3828187 >>3825379 Frig off Randy

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 27 23:41:45 2017 No.3828201 File: 204 KB, 1024x768, 77836101-f2c1-4dbe-8f49-454f2d9fcd37.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 23:44:48 2017 No.3828206

>>3828031
Except it was an acceptable tradeoff you ignorant person, you're probably too young to remember this but most 3D PC games around this time also lacked perspective correct texturing and for many years afterwards would give players the option to turn it off because it is resource intensive, especially considering this is 1994 hardware

Anonymous Mon Feb 27 23:59:20 2017 No.3828227

>>3827616
N64 has a higher fill rate than PS1 though.

RCP is rated to deliver "all features on" except mipmaps, trilinear, and alpha blended fog at 62.5 MPixel/s. If the fill rate is slower, that's due to memory access, but you don't need much memory access for triangle setup since most of the time it'll fit in RSP's data cache.

PS1's GPU is rated at 33 MPixel/s with "all features on", but obviously, that's a far smaller number of features.

Anonymous Tue Feb 28 02:56:08 2017 No.3828551

>>3826641
>What is true is that the early models had RCA out, which produced cleaner signal because the cables didn't have shitloads of interference from each other.

Those RCAs have really crappy op-amps preceding them which aren't present on the multi-av. Any serious audiophool CD player modification replaces those components, the only reason they revere the 100x is because they can use their placebo interconnects with GIRTH.

tl;dr any mainboard up to PU-18 (750x) has a decent AKM converter and multi-av audio via a breakout is the way to go.

Anonymous Tue Feb 28 03:25:45 2017 No.3828587

>>3828551
>tl;dr any mainboard up to PU-18 (750x) has a decent AKM converter
Only issue I have with 750x is that Sony tended to use the "B grade" AKM DAC in those (when I say B grade, that's literally how they are defined in the AKM specs sheet. The older models use the "A grade" variant. Difference is pretty damn small between them though, better than the shitty DACs in later models).

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 07:35:30 2017 No.3828836 >>3828206 I'm 37 and have not ONCE seen a PC game with fucked up perspective. Also if it was so acceptable how come one and only one machine is notorious for it? Every other machine of the time had perspective correct textures.

Anonymous Tue Feb 28 11:42:58 2017 No.3829129

>>3826612
The anon is implying that teens and those in their early 20s were the ones who mainly utilised the PSX. These people, in the 90s, mostly attended raves in order to get high and went on holiday to scummy resort slums such as Ibiza in order to get even more high and drunk. As a result of their diminished perception and intellect, the anon implies that they would not care about their glaring flaw.

Basically, the Brit anon is calling you underclass scum. The most appropriate response to this is to glass him for being a fooking CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 12:09:41 2017 No.3829181 >>3822916 Epic

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 12:12:30 2017 No.3829184 >>3828836 >not ONCE seen a PC game with fucked up perspective Fatal Racing

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 12:27:08 2017 No.3829208 >>3828136 lel no, I tried Hybrid Heaven with S-video on a CRT, it looked as blurry as on that pic

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 12:39:31 2017 No.3829220 >>3826790 PSOne is minishit

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 12:45:59 2017 No.3829230 >>3828206 Descent, Ultima Underworld, System Shock all had correct texture rendering and none of them (and none of the games that came after) had the option to reduce it to affline.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 12:49:13 2017 No.3829236 >>3829230 all those games ran like shit on the PCs of their day

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 12:59:41 2017 No.3829262 >>3829236 yes, quake also. the manual actually says to expect the game to run at 17-20fps max. Fucking pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:03:55 2017 No.3829467 i called it playsi desu.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:05:56 2017 No.3829474 >>3822795 fceux sucks nestopia is better

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:10:30 2017 No.3829479 >>3823970 beetlepsx does

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:17:35 2017 No.3829487 when the hell did the n64 faggots come out of the woodwork? I thought we had chased them off

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:23:49 2017 No.3829497 >>3829236 >too poor for a voodoo card

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:27:22 2017 No.3829503 >>3829487 when the hell did the psx faggots come out of the woodwork? I thought we had chased them off

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:30:57 2017 No.3829510 File: 65 KB, 640x480, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I think these low poly 3d graphics are very aesthetically appealing in an abstract sort of way. Haven't aged at all in my opinion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:34:45 2017 No.3829515 >>3829497 underage? ultima underworld and system shock had no glide support descent got its glide patch 2 years after release

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 15:53:22 2017 No.3829557 >>3825339 Why the fuck do retarded third worlders try to tell people how things were

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 16:07:32 2017 No.3829584 >>3829236 They eventually ran fine on a 486, so meh. >>3829230 That fish lens effect in Underworld 1 was weird though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 16:08:43 2017 No.3829587 >>3822836 Autists don't run zsnes in dosbox though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 16:17:21 2017 No.3829602 >>3822684 As mentioned before , already fixed by a certain ePSXe plugin.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 16:29:52 2017 No.3829625 >>3828227 >N64 has a higher fill rate than PS1 though. Who gives a shit?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 16:32:38 2017 No.3829631 >>3828836 Fighting Force had an option to toggle perspective correction on/off.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 28 16:50:30 2017 No.3829658 >>3829625 >Affine textures trade accuracy for higher fill rates. >But the N64 has correct texure mapping and a higher fill rate >Lol, who cares about fill rate

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 07:14:14 2017 No.3831081 >>3829262 >Fucking pathetic. Well, it was either that or not at all. There's nothing pathetic about getting Quake to run at that rate on such a machine. I don't think you appreciate what a technical challenge Quake was.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 07:50:48 2017 No.3831102 >>3822916 is this rustled enrique review of duke 3d?

Anonymous Wed Mar 1 08:31:06 2017 No.3831146

>>3829262
And still, it ran fine on my 486 DX. Note however, that all PS games looked pathetic in comparison.

Also Descent ran buttery smooth, don't know the exaqct FPS but I'd assume ~50 since it was geometrically simpler than Quake.

Ultima Underworld was notorious for being unoptimised crap, and that what prompted Carmack to make much more efficient Doom engine.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 09:43:24 2017 No.3831265 >>3829658 N64 came out two years later. Of course it is faster and newer.

Anonymous Wed Mar 1 09:49:29 2017 No.3831272

>>3831146
>Descent ran buttery smooth, don't know the exaqct FPS but I'd assume ~50
That's very unlikely. Although there aren't any actual benchmarks floating around, this should be enlightening.

> The 486 starts straining in 320x400 in highest
detail.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.games.descent/Xa4LMzb0UCA[576-600]

That's referring to an AMD486-120, which was a lot faster than your typical 486 DX.

Also, even the fastest Intel 486 DX ever made runs Quake ran at under 10 FPS when set to factory clocks. But at least that's a case of not being designed for it. Descent and System Shock were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLrKxWL73Mw

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 13:14:26 2017 No.3831595 >>3827768 Which is why the saturn was superior in all ways.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 13:29:58 2017 No.3831624 >>3831595 Saturn's texture mapping wasn't perspective correct either, except for VDP2 plains

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 13:52:11 2017 No.3831658 >>3823078 Saturns textures warp even more and it cannot do transparency.

Anonymous Wed Mar 1 14:00:15 2017 No.3831678

>>3823402
It is SimCity 2000. The thing is, this is just the "drive in the city you built" mode. It is a city building game, it does not look like that in normal gameplay, it uses 2D graphics and an overhead view. If it is like the PC version it is a good game actually.

How it looks in normal gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjiwVFG4Am4

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 14:11:33 2017 No.3831694 >>3831272 But Descent was usually run at 320x200 in which it did OK on a 486.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 14:12:48 2017 No.3831697 >>3831272 Btw I don't see that post under that link.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 1 14:15:28 2017 No.3831704 >>3831272 I see it down. But have you seen PSX Descent? It runs like shit, worse than on a 486. Don't bring 320x400 into this, that is higher than resolution in most PSX games.

Anonymous Wed Mar 1 23:18:34 2017 No.3832717

>>3831704
The post is also about a CPU which is faster than Intel's 486 DX. I'm guessing the framerate would likely be 20 rather than 50 on DX at 320x200.

Yes, the PS1 version of Descent is shit, but that's due to poor coding, as even Quake 2 runs fine on it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 07:30:35 2017 No.3833439 >>3831678 nigga everybody knows what SC2k looks like, what the fuck man

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 12:45:54 2017 No.3833989 >>3831624 Textures mapped to quads are generally less distorted than textures mapped to quads. I also must say that I appreciate the Saturn's higher vertex accuracy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 12:50:54 2017 No.3833997 >>3833989 I must say that I appreciate the PlayStation's superior library.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 12:52:57 2017 No.3834002 >>3833997 Yeah but that's not what this thread is about, EOP

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 12:54:32 2017 No.3834005 >>3834002 >EOP The PlayStation crushes its library even worse if you speak Japanese.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 12:56:50 2017 No.3834012 File: 139 KB, 512x512, Kain_SoulReaver-Stronghold-ReaverConvergence.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3824404 >Go Spiritual/Physical >Distortions just amplifies the transformation of the rooms It was really nice

Anonymous Thu Mar 2 13:39:21 2017 No.3834090

>>3833989
>I also must say that I appreciate the Saturn's higher vertex accuracy.
Vertex accuracy is customization on Saturn because matrix calculations and such are almost all done in software on the two SH-2 CPUs (barely anybody used the Saturn's multipurpose hardware DSP). Theoretically, therefore, vertex accuracy should vary from game to game.

PS1's vertex calculations were performed on GTE, a DSP which was fixed into doing everything with low precision.

N64 does vertex shit on a hardware DSP as well called RSP, though it is microcode programmable so the level of precision is adjustable. However, the default Nintendo provided microcodes all have quite high precision. Contrary to popular belief, the high precision of vertex calculations from the default microcode is not the limiting factor preventing the console from pushing more polygons.

Anonymous Thu Mar 2 13:44:15 2017 No.3834097

>>3834090

I find that most Saturn games have more stable vertices than the PS1's GTE produces. But you're right, since it's software T&L it's up to the programmer to make that decision.

In any case, the Saturn can't churn out polygons at the rate the PS1 can.

Anonymous Thu Mar 2 14:34:13 2017 No.3834198
File: 205 KB, 768x330, nonpowerof2_texturedistortion.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3829230
Quake software renderer did texture correction for world graphics only once every 16 pixels (optionally 8 with d_subdiv16 0). Weapon/enemy models were pure affine (later versions added a perspective corrected option). Hardly anybody noticed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 14:39:02 2017 No.3834206 >>3834198 is the middle one the correction every 16 pixels?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 14:40:23 2017 No.3834208 >>3834206 Looks like it, although https://www.quaddicted.com/engines/software_vs_glquake just says 2 and 3 are both corrected.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 14:42:24 2017 No.3834214 >>3822895 I like the same music as that guy. Never heard someone else mention leaether strip before, especially early leather strip

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 2 15:02:18 2017 No.3834253 File: 21 KB, 489x328, ef36c195d8f4e91ff137a83d5db19573608b8da78e405f54dbd2a93fe2eb1020.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3824534

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 3 07:16:53 2017 No.3835616 >>3829129 Thank you. Correct.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 3 07:17:55 2017 No.3835620 >>3833989 >Textures mapped to QUADS are generally less distorted than textures mapped to QUADS.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 3 18:00:02 2017 No.3836726 >>3823843 because you are underage

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 3 18:12:24 2017 No.3836752 >>3822684 Do you analyze background textures while playing games? Sounds like you're better off looking at ingame screenshots on the internet

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 3 19:10:46 2017 No.3836887 >>3836752 >le you're an autist meme.

Anonymous Fri Mar 3 20:49:15 2017 No.3837074

>>3835620
Even when corrected, I don't buy it for a second. Quads are a bitch. Even with hardware caches optimized for quads, they don't buy you anything triangles don't already offer. Triangles are a much more natural primitive from a math perspective. Also their appearance is well defined, unlike quads which are heavily implementation dependent when you got cases like all 4 points not being coplanar, which is virtually guaranteed after model-view transformations with finite machine precision. I've implemented my own rendering engine, and know a thing or two about hardware design, and no way would I use them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 3 21:08:10 2017 No.3837098 >>3828136 t. never used a CRT blurry textures don't magically go away on them

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 01:20:47 2017 No.3837495 >>3837098 They textures are still aliased, but it doesn't look like vaseline was smeared in the screen.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 02:13:46 2017 No.3837539 >>3823402 It's like Maxis wanted to port SimCopter to the PS1 but didn't have the time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 07:57:32 2017 No.3837839 >>3837074 >you got cases like all 4 points not being coplanar, which is virtually guaranteed after model-view transformations with finite machine precision. I appreciate your point here. Of course a triangle can never not be planar.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 09:59:13 2017 No.3838029 >>3837839 >>3837074 How important is a polygon being coplanar? I

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:05:19 2017 No.3838038 >>3838029 It is if you want to prevent pixel overdraw, and, you know, heavy Z issues (a quad could can itself).

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:06:48 2017 No.3838040 >>3838038 The Saturn has big problems with overdraw, doesn't it? It also lacks a Z buffer like the Playstation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:07:48 2017 No.3838041 >>3834097 >In any case, the Saturn can't churn out polygons at the rate the PS1 can. It could as far as maths go, but the slow gpu held it back.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:10:02 2017 No.3838048 >>3838041 I thought the PS1's GTE was just plain faster than the Saturn at software T&L.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:12:16 2017 No.3838053 >>3838048 T&L is only part of the rendering.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:19:35 2017 No.3838065 >>3838053 What are the other stages of rendering done on the CPU in the Playstation and Saturn?

Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:21:37 2017 No.3838069

>>3838053
It's a pretty major part of rendering. Saturn can certainly spit out draw lists faster though if you take advantage of both CPUs. Same with general game logic.

Two SH-2s are unlikely to beat GTE at T&L. GTE actually was designed for SIMD while SH-2s were not. Maybe with the combined power of SH-2s + DSP. I still somehow doubt it.

Of course, as the other poster pointed out, VDP1 is gonna let the whole system down.

Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:48:26 2017 No.3838087

>>3838065
First you load a 3d model of a scenery, then transform all its coordinates according to whichever direction the camera is facing. Then you translate them to 2d coordinates to be drawn in the framebuffer (ie. the TV screen). PSX GTE helps with the 3d -> 2d transforms iirc, as well as helping with lightning calculations that use similar math.

But I might be wrong, I never actually wrote a 3d rasterizer before, so I admit that I do not fully understand the process. I'm awful at understanding matrix math.

>>3838069
The Saturn DSP is better at transforms than the SH2s, even despite running at half their speed. We have code examples that do transforms a third faster than the SH2, even accounting for the time require to move data from and to the DSP.

At a guess I'd say the 2xSH2 + DSP could transform polys close to as fast as the GTE, but only if you make them do that and that alone. However this is not a safe metric for either console, since the polygon rasterizers in both consoles cannot keep up. Not just the VDP1 either, but the PSX GPU as well (GTE can sort more polys than the GPU can draw).

Anonymous Sat Mar 4 10:53:47 2017 No.3838092

>>3838087
>The Saturn DSP is better at transforms than the SH2s, even despite running at half their speed
Yes, certainly, wasn't disputing that. The DSP was actually optimized for SIMD, like GTE.

>However this is not a safe metric for either console, since the polygon rasterizers in both consoles cannot keep up
I think it can probably keep up in theory (assuming its doing nothing but drawing triangle strips) though yes, that's generally true. However, I don't entirely agree it can't keep up in practice either, because GTE will be doing more than transforms, extra cycles can be used for lighting and more accurate sorting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 4 11:02:37 2017 No.3838098 >>3822916 >>3822916 >>3822916 >>3822916 >>3822916 >>3822916

Anonymous Sat Mar 4 15:19:08 2017 No.3838458

>>3822916
Woah dude did you just say "psx"? I find that very problematic. Do you realize you're triggering people? It's 2017, you can't just go on the internet and call PlayStation "psx", you're obviously an underage and a bigot so I'm calling other oldfags and reporting you to mods

Anonymous Sun Mar 5 02:29:08 2017 No.3839596
File: 5 KB, 320x108, index.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3838029
Real time graphics on retro systems (and most modern engines) exclusively render surfaces. The easiest surfaces to mathematically describe are planes. Curved surfaces are more complicated to describe, Bézier and NURBS surfaces being some of the most popular methods, but curves can also be drawn by breaking them up into small pieces approximated by planes. In this way, fast 3D graphics really boils down to being able to draw a planar surface primitive (and perhaps a line and point primitive).

In 3D, the minimum number of points needed to constrain a plane is 3. Any fewer points and a surface is no longer fully constrained (for instance, two points is fit by set of planes that can be spun around on the axis that is the line intersecting both points). More than three points can be used to specify a plane in 3D, however this specification is "overconstrained", meaning that either their must be redundancy in the specification of the plane, or the equations trying to describe the plane are inconsistent and no plane exists. In the case of quads, there are 4 points, and you don't have to know a lot of math to convince yourself that there are configurations of 4 points in which you can't draw a plane through.

So why do non coplanar points this matter? Shouldn't you be able to draw some sort of surface? Isn't there a fast and mathematically unambiguous way to do this? Since interpolation is a "filling in data where you don't have it" problem, the answer is there is no unambiguous way. Moreover, something like a minimal area surface (laplacian = second order derivatives) is computationally expensive to compute. Thus you are left with approximating the surface, for instance, with triangles! But even this presents issues (see the image I stole from somewhere). Once again, how to exactly go about drawing the badly behaved quad is not unambiguous, and thus depends on implementation.

Triangles suffer none of these issues.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 02:32:55 2017 No.3839604 >>3839596 I want to add that any claims about quads being more efficient because textures are rectangular is crap spouted by people who don't know how texture mapping works.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 03:03:56 2017 No.3839649 File: 602 KB, 1014x1524, Untitled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3824565 Here's an actual PS1 example, in Quake 2. To be fair, those extra vertices are put to good use as the lightmaps are stored as vertex colors instead of textures.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 03:12:07 2017 No.3839661 >>3839649 Moreover, it encourages more detailed geometry.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 03:29:02 2017 No.3839678 File: 424 KB, 1022x1442, n64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3839661 It might, but it didn't for Quake 2. The N64 version has more detail because it has the polygon budget to add it. Textures are shit, though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 04:06:33 2017 No.3839720 >>3839649 > Artist: Hmm, this totally non-descript section of vertical way wall on the left needs 24x more polygons than it's visually identical counterparts flanking it. >>3839678 > Tessellation programmer : I hate my job.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 08:07:03 2017 No.3839903 >>3839720 kek

Anonymous Sun Mar 5 08:18:00 2017 No.3839912

>>3839678
The textures aren't that shit on the N64 version. Yes, the texture resolution is lower than on PS1, but they opted to give the textures a higher color depth - it's the trade-off.

Furthermore, the N64 version is quite probably the only full-3D game of that generation to run with a 24-bit framebuffer, so since they were aiming for that, it's a trade-off they were pretty much forced to make otherwise they'd squander the benefits.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 13:48:36 2017 No.3840365 File: 873 KB, 2030x1524, revolt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Another example, this time from Re-Volt. PS1 still looks better overall, though. This isn't a universal thing. Gex 3's identical on both systems.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 14:03:49 2017 No.3840391 >>3828227 N64 managed to hit every 3d feature checkmark, but it didn't matter when you had to cram all of those textures into an 8MB cartridge.

Anonymous Sun Mar 5 14:14:19 2017 No.3840409
File: 34 KB, 439x744, resident_evil_2_wireframe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3840365
Not really along the lines of what you are trying to show but I'll post it anyway. The extra polys on the N64 version of RE2 are there to accommodate the new and improved animations.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 14:24:04 2017 No.3840427 >>3840365 >>3840409 Didn't the N64 use quads as opposed to triangles or are they being converted by blender in these screens?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 14:27:12 2017 No.3840430 >>3840427 No, that was the Saturn. N64 used tris.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 15:56:39 2017 No.3840576 >>3822537 >implying I didn't have a colossal amount of fun with my PS1 anyhow >implying I give a fuck about such a superficial thing

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 18:33:06 2017 No.3840938 >>3822537 So how would one reproduce this effect on purpose for the appearance of looking "retro"? Seems like it could be a cool filter.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 5 18:44:41 2017 No.3840974 >>3840938 Interpolate all textures in screen coordinates rather than perspective correct coordinates. In other words, transform your geometry like it's 3D, but fill in your textures like it's 2D. See >>3827768

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/vr/ - Retro Games