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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 41 KB, 1000x352, Perspective_correct_texture_mapping.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3822537 No.3822537 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

>when you realize the ps1 didn't even have correct texture mapping

>> No.3822542

I owned a Playstation, not a "psx", so I didn't have this problem.

>> No.3822572
File: 91 KB, 316x399, 9667cccb3a0e456a3b3daf8e5fbd251b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3822572

>>3822537
>Implying I don't emulate with double internal resolution and a texture fix.

>> No.3822580

>>3822542
>trying to be facetious
>responding to an abbreviation the OP didn't even use
Tryhard underage: the post.

>> No.3822585

>>3822537

Does a PS3 do this playing a PS game?

>> No.3822589

IT'S PART OF THE CHARM

>> No.3822590

>>3822580
It says psx right in the OP picture you dumb cunt.

>> No.3822604

>>3822585
Yeah

>> No.3822607
File: 133 KB, 256x256, LSD_Coverart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3822607

>>3822537
gee orly does it matter in this game?

>> No.3822608

>>3822537
Is it the playstation's turn to get some irrational hate? Good, the poor n64 could use a break from that.

>> No.3822651

>>3822608
No, soon enough someone is going to point out that even though the N64 has proper 3D hardware, the anti-aliasing looks terrible.

Which it does. On a LCD.

It looks amazing on CRT screens.

>> No.3822674
File: 3.00 MB, 426x240, Tekken 3 Attract.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3822674

>waaah mama Playstation is LITERALLY unplayable

>> No.3822684

>>3822674
Man, look at all that texture jitter.

>> No.3822726

>>3822537
>when you realize emulators have fixed this issue since last year

>> No.3822767

>>3822542

Your autism is showing.

>> No.3822774

>>3822726
Emulators having nothing to do with console wars. Thats why its called console wars, not emulator wars.

>> No.3822792

>>3822774
In that case the playstation's 240p resolution made texture shimmering barely noticable, at best straight lines were wonky.

>>3822607
LSD is very cheap on the 3D production value so all of the playstation's worst flaws are at their most prominent here

>> No.3822795

>>3822774
>emulator wars

>zsnes vs bsnes vs.snes9x
>jnes vs fceux
>pj64 vs 1964
>epsxe vs PSX
>everyone vs mednafen
>everyone vs retroarch
You haven't SEEN emulator threads, anon.

>> No.3822813

>>3822651
Sure, if you like vaseline smeared all over your screen. And somehow the in game models looked way more primitive than what was capable on the playstation.

The n64 didn't even have proper 3d hardware. It was gimped through and through.

>> No.3822836

>>3822795
I'm really glad we don't get many zsnes vs bsnes threads anymore those were the most insane things I've ever seen. Like seriously, what kind of fucking autist actually uses _snes?

>> No.3822872

>>3822537
it's cheap 3D hardware designed in '93 and then sold at the end of 94, emphasis on cheap
its primary goal is to slam as many polygons on screen at the pricepoint they set, quality be damned, and it succeeds wildly at that

by 1996 when 3D accelerators (actually good 3D accelerators) are on the consumer market, the PS1's issues are more glaring (consumers now know what good 3D rendering should look like), but it's still shitting on the competition due to its cost and library

>>3822813
the N64 absolutely has proper 3D hardware -- but the whole system is bottlenecked because Nintendo was a bunch of stupid bastards (high latency RAM is the most obvious -- there's no point in having a 90MHz CPU that spends all of its time waiting on memory access), N64 games should have like thrice the performance they do given the fact that the system is pretty much made from otherwise high-specced parts

if anyone else designed a system around the same chipset as the N64, it would likely have been easier to work with and faster

>>3822795
why are half of these a thing
>snes9x on slower machines, bsnes otherwise, there's no actual reason to use bsnes over a recent snes9x if you aren't running the max compatibility profile (byuu's own words) since they have comparable compatibility but bsnes is more CPU intensive
>neither, nestopia
>pj64
>epsxe, pSX crashes on like half the library

the valid ones are
>mednafen
the lack of UI is retarded (honestly, 90% of complaints would go away if all the thing did was open a file dialog if it's launched without anything on the command line)
also, the author is kind of autistic about disc images, so shit that would burn and play fine on the real machine once you get it to boot, mednafen will toss out and bitch at
>retroarch
the UI is needlessly retarded (things that should be configurable aren't, navigating files is appalling, it's just a mess)

>> No.3822885

>>3822872
>why are half of these a thing

Because it baits autists into responding.

>> No.3822886

>>3822872
>bad UIs

the hallmark of a REAL programmer

>> No.3822895
File: 411 KB, 1280x1256, 0T13cNM.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3822895

>>3822886
Whatever you say, Xod. Just make a god damned front-end.

>> No.3822903
File: 21 KB, 443x332, images-131.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3822903

How would you even make a game like vagrant story with good graphics? The rough textures add to the tone

>> No.3822916
File: 2.88 MB, 1400x4525, psx nope.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3822916

>>3822542
>I owned a Playstation, not a "psx", so I didn't have this problem.

In that case you either owned a Playstation 2, or got a Playstation 1 after the 2 was released.

pre-PS2, the Playstation was PSX.

>> No.3822941

>>3822795
>zsnes vs bsnes vs.snes9x
Bsnes is autistic hipster tier. At best it's good for development; but if you are into that you should get a flash cart instead.
Snes9x is probably okay, but I haven't used it since 2004 or so.
Zsnes is obviously the worst choice compatibility wise, but it runs the 2-3 snes games I still occasionally play that have not gotten better ports on other systems. And I already have it set up fully, so I have no reason to switch. Yeah, it won't run some no-one-cares looney tunes game or does not show up the shadows in a chopper game, I could care less.

>jnes vs fceux
Whichever emulates the Dendy Jr better is the winner.

>pj64 vs 1964
They both suck, and I'm sure that no one can disagree with that.

>epsxe vs PSX
PSX is better in general because it is way easier to use. Unless you need to run the handful of games that glitch up, or you are a graphics whore. In case of the latter, you probably aren't playing PSX games to begin with.

>everyone vs mednafen
>everyone vs retroarch
They probably suck less than MESS does.

>> No.3822948

>>3822872
>by 1996 when 3D accelerators (actually good 3D accelerators) are on the consumer market, the PS1's issues are more glaring

They weren't glaring because games usually ran at 384x224 on a 15khz CRT TV.

>> No.3822971
File: 51 KB, 640x472, ps1box.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3822971

>>3822916
Is this revisionist history or are you fucking with him?

I bought a ps1 in the US in 98, well before the release of the ps2, and almost everyone I knew just called it the Playstation. PSX was the common abbreviation in magazines, but nobody used it in conversation.

>> No.3822981

>>3822941
You missed
>Sony vs BLEEM!
What a tale that is.

>> No.3822990

>>3822916
i'm glad some autist went and assembled this collage, the "playstation 1 was never called psx by anyone ever" meme has ran its course and needs to be put to rest

>> No.3822998

>>3822537
The fucked up textures made everything look surreal.

>> No.3823054

>>3822971
There was little reason to call it a PSX when it was the only Playstation. After the PS2 hit, we used PSX all the time at the store I worked at, mainly to differentiate from PS1, that small little thing.

>> No.3823063

>>3822684
>REEEEEEE CHECK YOUR NEXT GEN PRIVILEGE REEEEEEEEE

>> No.3823078

>>3823063
Don't even need the next gen.
N64 and Saturn had none of that shit.

Or maybe you're right. The Playstation was last gen hardware when it was released.

>> No.3823082

>>3822916
Nope

>> No.3823135

Dammit, now I hate all of my favorite games!

>> No.3823174
File: 304 KB, 1024x768, SimCity2000 (16).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823174

I see nothing wrong

>> No.3823187
File: 238 KB, 1024x768, modern innsmouth tour.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823187

Nothing wrong

>> No.3823192
File: 367 KB, 1024x768, like LSD but worse.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823192

>> No.3823203

>>3823174
>>3823187
>>3823192
wow

that's really avant-garde gehryian architecture

this game was ahead of its time

>> No.3823237
File: 78 KB, 941x674, PS-X.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823237

>>3822971
>Is this revisionist history or are you fucking with him?

No it's not.
The consoles original codename was PS-X.
Magazines kept calling it PSX for pretty much its entire lifetime. Sony always called it Playstation. The only time it was called PS1 was when they released that mini model (the psOne).

>> No.3823240

>>3823174
>>3823187
>>3823192
I can see the problem, you are using a shitfest of an upscaled emulator output.

Put that in a real console and take screenshots from your CRT TV.

>> No.3823256

>>3822872
>by 1996 when 3D accelerators (actually good 3D accelerators) are on the consumer market
There were no good 3D accelerators on the consumer market in 1996. Voodoo became retail available in 1997. Every 3D accelerator before it was mediocre at best.

>high latency RAM is the most obvious
No, single channel memory is the most obvious. All of the N64's issues would be immediately fixed with the inclusion of a second memory channel.
Every single one. High latency only exacerbated a difficult situation for coders. The only RAM in the world thacowan suitable for use in a single channel configuration was RDRAM, and high latency is a characteristic of it.

Nintendo weren't stupid, only very greedy.

>> No.3823373
File: 1.01 MB, 1920x1080, PSOGL2_063.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823373

>>3823240
The game still looks awful on original hardware, actually even worse, as it is more pixelated and the textures are even more fucked up thanks to aliasing and Moiré effect.

>> No.3823402

>>3823373
>>3823192
>>3823187
>>3823174

This game looks awful regardless of texture mapping, what the fuck

>> No.3823481

>>3822537
>graphics whoring in modern consoles
>"shut up and go back to your call of duty"

>graphics whoring in retro consoles
>perfectly fine for some unexplained reason

>> No.3823540
File: 152 KB, 564x1166, 1458895835362.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823540

>>3822537

>> No.3823674

>>3823237
>Unicode String
PFFHAHAHAHA

>> No.3823739
File: 4 KB, 960x459, sad pepe affine.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823739

TFW mo gf because affine mapped

>> No.3823748

Kinda neat. So that's why they look bendy and like ass.

>> No.3823794
File: 96 KB, 602x618, ps1_dithering.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823794

>>3822813
>if you like vaseline smeared all over your screen
That's the N64's dither filtering. It's to reduce color banding. PS1 does exactly the same thing, except that older models of the console wouldn't dither filter textures so there would be banding.

N64's dither filter, however, goes a step further than PS1 by also attempting to filter out moiré patterns. Rayman 2 on N64 has an option allowing you to turn off the filter by setting video to "Sharp", so it's easily to see the moiré patterns the filter is trying to eliminate.

>> No.3823807
File: 129 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823807

why is this allowed?

>> No.3823827

>>3823540
As a programmer I sometimes wish I didn't know how computationally expensive divisions are.

>> No.3823834

>>3823807
saturn > shitstation

>> No.3823836

>>3823807
Why is the ground texture completely fucked?

>> No.3823843
File: 46 KB, 640x427, Console_psx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3823843

>>3822542
Why is the PS1 often referred to as "PSX" anyway?
When I think of PSX I think of this machine.

>> No.3823848

>>3823843

>>3822916
>>3822916
>>3822916
>>3822916

>> No.3823857

>>3823843
Because you're underage.

>> No.3823907

>>3823794
What is this picture saying? Are late model PlayStations better?

>> No.3823912

>>3822537

>When you realize that the Saturn had better texture mapping than the Playstation

>> No.3823920

>>3823907
Yes, they actually dither filter textures properly.

>> No.3823927

>>3823920
Is there any info about this anywhere?

>> No.3823929

>>3823927
Can't find the link right now but the difference is due to older PS1s blend textures in 15 bit precision, while newer blend in the full 24 bit precision. The missing color data causes banding because you can't dither 15 bit color into 15 bit color since it's already 15 bit.

>> No.3823934

>>3823929
Also, I remember seeing something about early PlayStations playing CD audio with amazing quality or something. Do you have any idea if that applies to games too or if it's just better when playing audio off a CD?

>> No.3823940

>>3823934
Earlier PS1 models have a higher quality DAC than later models. This will benefit all audio that comes out of the console.

However, there's two catches. The first is many models have the same high quality DAC, not just the oldest PS1s with RCA sockets. The second is that quality of this DAC isn't nearly as high as the meme suggests. It's exactly the same kind you'd expect put into a $300 mid-90s CD-player and no better.

>> No.3823941

>>3823934
>Also, I remember seeing something about early PlayStations playing CD audio with amazing quality or something
Audiophiles going crazy over PS1s were one of the better outcomes of the PSX-launch.

>> No.3823946

>>3823940
>The second is that quality of this DAC isn't nearly as high as the meme suggests. It's exactly the same kind you'd expect put into a $300 mid-90s CD-player and no better.
Yeah, it's just that it'd be really disappointing if there's no definitive way to experience the PlayStation. Are there any models with the good audio and dithering or is that not a thing?

>> No.3823948

>>3823946
>Are there any models with the good audio and dithering or is that not a thing?
Yes there are. If the model number is SCPH followed by a 5 then it'll have both for sure.

>> No.3823950

>>3822542
Oh well Playstation had that problem too, dumbcunt.

>> No.3823967

>>3823794
>>3823907
So, playing with a old Bios (like the psfat instead of slim) in a emulator can be a problem or this is a entirely separated option?

>> No.3823970

>>3823967
It's got nothing to do with the BIOS. Sony actually made changes to the physical GPU hardware between older and newer consoles.

Most emulators don't even attempt to replicate this dithering part of hardware anyway. They just render games in 32-bit color, way higher than the real console was capable of.

>> No.3823984

>>3823912
Well, AFAIK, Saturn texturing wasn't different much from PSX, but quads helped.

>> No.3823994

>>3823950

triggered much dumb cunt?

top kek

>> No.3824010

>>3823237
whatever the name it's still better than the ultra64. i have a soft spot for the dolphin, but man, it was a crazy name for a console though.

>> No.3824054

>>3822537
I don't like the graphics of the PS1 or N64

>> No.3824229

>>3822537
Playstation actually had good games though so it didn't matter

>> No.3824247

>>3823674
The hell are you on about you nut? That's not unicode

>> No.3824369

>>3822537
Rarely noticeable at PSX resolution anyways.

>> No.3824371

>>3824247
He's a /pol/ack laughing about the swastika.

>> No.3824378
File: 13 KB, 342x319, 1473644270106.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3824378

>>3824371
Oooooh. Heh, that's pretty funny

>> No.3824380

>>3822792
>playstation's 240p resolution made texture shimmering barely noticable
I disagree.
I remember being absolutely baffled by moving textures in Tenchu and Spyro. It wasn't until very recently that I found out why.

>> No.3824404
File: 1.88 MB, 480x360, reaver.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3824404

>>3824369
>Rarely noticeable at PSX resolution anyways.
bullshit, even in this tiny clip you can see it

and soul reaver is one of the lesser offenders all things considered

>> No.3824462

>>3822916
there some games backcovers with "psx software" thing too.

>> No.3824534

>>3823540
cool, somebody saved this from a year or two ago when I made it.

>> No.3824547

>>3824534
you didn't make it

>> No.3824558
File: 31 KB, 640x480, TR1 screen006.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3824558

>>3822537
The very first time I plugged it in and turned it on. Some amazing games on that system, but hard to look at.

>> No.3824565

The problem with the PS1's texture warping isn't the effect itself, it's that the only way to minimize it is to "waste" polygons and tessellate every surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuH7RDIDZN4

>> No.3824571

>>3824565
It's the reason draw distances are uniformly shit on the console unless games took the Spyro approach and just dropped textures from anything distant to the camera

>> No.3824582

>>3824571
>>3824565

meanwhile Saturn can draw a highly detailed and perspective-correct plane stretching to the horizon without breaking a sweat

>> No.3824587

>>3824582
Sure, as long as it's perfectly flat

>> No.3824608

Then again, PGXP (for the PCSXR emulator) exists.

>> No.3824627

>>3824565
>meme video created by ninfags
It's wrong though. not a single PSX game warps textures when they're closer to the camera.

>> No.3824631

>>3824627
>PSX

>> No.3824635

>>3824608
ePSXe exists too. Had a perspective fix not too long ago.

>> No.3824637

>>3824635

How about vertex precision?

>> No.3824647

>>3824627

They wouldn't warp it that badly, because they don't let a single polygon take up half the screen like SM64 does.

But it does happen. Play Tenchu or Jet Moto 3.

>> No.3825231

>>3824587
Aren't all planes?

>> No.3825268

>>3822916
but why?

>> No.3825318

>>3824627
that's pretty wrong, but that video overdoes it -- none of the polygons should stretch quite so much (since the vertex coordinates should be clipped to the screen boundaries instead of going way offscreen)
the warping issue is heavily mitigated on the PS1 by the fact that games there subdivide flat stretches into multiple polygons (there's nothing on the machine that looks remotely as bad as that video because of that factor like that poster said)

>>3823256
didn't the OG Voodoo come out in '96?
like, I'm sure most people bough theirs in '97, but I'm pretty sure the card did come out in 1996

>> No.3825330

>>3822585
Yes.

>> No.3825334

>>3822971
>I was 7 years old in 1998

Everyone called it the PSX until the PSone came out

>> No.3825339

>>3825334
I called it the PlayStation or "Play" for short.
If I had to shorten it in written form, I would have used PS.

>> No.3825340

>>3822537

We called it a PSX in the store where I sold the fucking things back in 1995

>> No.3825342

>>3825339
>Play
Brazillian pls

>> No.3825347

>>3825340
Well, it was not the official term. You were retarded.
>>3825342
Chilean, actually.

>> No.3825370
File: 28 KB, 480x600, FB_IMG_1487560935787.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3825370

>>3825347
"La play" mantains it's use to this day in our long shitty country

>> No.3825379

>>3825370
who are these people?

>> No.3825387

>>3825379
Characters from Trailer Park Boys.

>> No.3825424

>>3822590
doesnt mean OP made the image you mouthbreather

>> No.3825434

>>3824631
>>3822916

>> No.3825450

>>3824635
>ePSXe exists too. Had a perspective fix not too long ago.

No, it only has anti-jitter. Not texture perspective correction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NDJQ9LA2Vw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsTKzKYy_2g

>> No.3825452

>>3825347
>Well, it was not the official term. You were retarded.
Fuck off, no one cares about your ability to make things "official". You are the only retarded one here.

We all called them PSX, PS, and PlayStation interchangeably. I remember reading magazines that called it a PSX. It's a PSX. It always will be a PSX.

PSX PSX PSX. Triggered now?

>> No.3825484

>>3822537
but your pic isn't even right faggot.

>> No.3825504
File: 2.17 MB, 320x240, Rage Racer paid billboard advertising.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3825504

>>3825450
Showing off perspective correction with a level that has virtually no textures, nice one. If we're doing this then I'll post some PGXP too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71ZEXxu_9ag

>> No.3825535

>>3824565
>Exaggerated Strawman vid!

>> No.3825597

>>3825318
>didn't the OG Voodoo come out in '96
It did for OEMs. So you could technically buy a premade system with a Voodoo inside in 96, but not for an existing system until 97 which is when the card got a retail release.

>> No.3825620

>>3824565
>>3824627
Egoraptor: "psx was never good "
Nintentoddler jihad rages on

>> No.3826338

>>3825452
i think you need to calm down.

>> No.3826350

why would they bother wasting money on perspective correct textures? they knew their target audience was gonna be perpetually sorted for e's and whizz and off their noggin largin' it in ibiza - they'd never knowtice.

>> No.3826432

>>3825268
PlayStation had a negative reaction in focus groups because of the Play Station project they were supposed to fulfill with Nintendo. The fans weren't very keen of Sony for that.

PSX was dropped from NA marketing though. Enthusiasts still used the term because it struck a chord with the radical attitude of the 90s.

>> No.3826441

>>3822916
>someone wasted time to make this picture

Hah.

Anyway, nah, magazine publications calling it "PSX" still doesn't mean the console was called PSX officially.

It's PS, nerd.

>> No.3826442

>>3826432
>it struck a chord with the radical attitude of the 90s.

I still think this is the only reason why people insist on the "PSX" nickname, because it's "cool" (it's really not)

>> No.3826612
File: 40 KB, 402x268, 1487340807854.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3826612

>>3826350
>their target audience was gonna be perpetually sorted for e's and whizz and off their noggin largin' it in ibiza - they'd never knowtice.

>> No.3826629

>>3823843
because it was called as PSX, see
>>3823237

The PS2 DVR machine is what they recycled the codename for.

>> No.3826640

>>3826441
Why are we talking about Phantasy Star?

>> No.3826641

>>3823934
It's complete bullshit. Early models use a different DAC but the audio quality difference is imperceptible unless you run audiophile grade setup (in which case you are spending $10k on placebo).

What is true is that the early models had RCA out, which produced cleaner signal because the cables didn't have shitloads of interference from each other.

>>3823946
>Yeah, it's just that it'd be really disappointing if there's no definitive way to experience the PlayStation. Are there any models with the good audio and dithering or is that not a thing?

Get the last models with the non-suicidal cd drive, and apply a S/PDIF mod in them. Now the DAC quality of the console will not matter.

>> No.3826645

>>3826640
Because some faggots insist that there is a Phantasy Star X

>> No.3826653

>>3825597
>So you could technically buy a premade system with a Voodoo inside in 96, but not for an existing system until 97 which is when the card got a retail release.

Yeah but you couldn't buy a separate RDP chip in 1996 either, only a premade system by Nintendo with an RDP inside.

>> No.3826661

>>3826441
>Anyway, nah, magazine publications calling it "PSX" still doesn't mean the console was called PSX officially.

Nobody said it was the official name.

Just that it was the unofficial name which by everyone referred to it.

Seriously look up some FAQs from the 90s, tons of them call the system PSX.

>> No.3826698

>>3826653
It's a fairly moot point considering all of the Glide patches came out in early 97 anyway at the same time as the retail release. You could have the OEM card but absolutely nothing to play using it.

Same reason N64 and RCP were held back until 96, despite the hardware being ready in 95. Games weren't ready.

>> No.3826712

>>3826698
"games weren't ready" was the marketing speak for "we have manufacturing problems".

>> No.3826720

>>3826712
To be fair, they were aiming to use the then-new 350nm die shrink while was a pretty radical move. 3dfx opted for the Voodoo, which was released ~6 months later to continue to use the older 500nm process.

>> No.3826790

>>3826661
PlayStation or PS or PSOne

>> No.3826831

>>3826629
that screenshot proves nothing, faggot. or do you play ultra64 and dolphin?

>> No.3826839

>>3826612

daft cunt

>> No.3826851

>>3826790
you might've not called ps1 "psx" yourself, but there were a ton of people who did, including developers and journalists, and that's exactly what the collage proves

>> No.3826862
File: 147 KB, 745x571, ps.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3826862

>>3826851
>developers
More like publishers, and just a handful of them, and only during the early days of the PS.

If you use Yahoo Auctions and other japanese auction sites to buy video games, you'd know japanese have been using the official "PS" since forever, pic related.
PD: "SS" is obviously Sega Saturn.

>> No.3826887

>>3826862
no-one said "psx" is the only legitimate abbreviation for playstation
the only point here is that "psx" is just as viable abbreviation as "ps1" or "ps" - it was widely used in the past in different territories and the actual product that went by name literally "psx" is literally irrelevant everywhere, so confusion is impossible, especially on this board where talking about things released post 1999 is limited by the rules
so yes
"no one called it the PSX" is an incorrect statement
that's all there is to it

>> No.3826904

I love that this has devolved into a PS vs PSX argument.

>> No.3826907

>>3823794
I can't believe I didn't know this. Thanks anon. Been using old model Playstations exclusively

>> No.3826945

>>3826862
Developers did call it PSX, partially because the early dev kits were called PSX tools as well.

>> No.3827327

>>3824534
don't steal credit from other people's work, assfag

>> No.3827616

>>3823540
for the right, the result should be "accuracy sacrificed in favour of extremely high texturing speeds, resulting in high pixel fillrate / polygon throughput".

>> No.3827714

>>3827327
Who's the assfag, the guy claiming he made something, or the guy claiming he's stealing someone else's work with zero idea who made it?

>>3827616
Rereading it after so long, the wording is terrible. I must have made that shit fast. Of course the thread this was originally posted in had context to put the image in perspective (bah-da-tish). It was prolly one of those mode7 threads that quickly gets out of hand because 95% of posters don't have a clue about what they are talking about.

>> No.3827768
File: 64 KB, 564x935, 1458895835291.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3827768

>>3827616
I actually found a second version out in the wild. I definitely remember misspelling hardware etc, but my memory is a bit more murky on the interpolation formulas. This one more clearly states the pros and cons.

>> No.3827775

>>3827616

fuck off apologist

>> No.3828007

>>3827768
>I definitely remember misspelling hardware
Your rendition of "inaccurate" was inaccurate too.

>> No.3828026
File: 190 KB, 1500x352, texts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3828026

>>3822537

>when the pot calls the kettle

>> No.3828027

>>3822916

I'm still baffled that spaniards didn't call it "Juegoestacion"

>> No.3828031

It honestly appalls me that Sony thought this was acceptable. It doesn't come across like an acceptable cost-saving measure - it looks really bad. Sloppy and just incorrect.

Like a car without windows or something equally dumb.

>> No.3828116

>>3828031
Would you call FF9 and Crono Cross's graphics bad? It's more a matter of developers understanding how to bring out the most of limited hardware, as opposed to amateur shit like this >>3823187.

They got a cheap system to market that was easy to develop for with acceptable graphics tradeoffs and the rest is history.

>> No.3828136

>>3828026
N64 only looks like that on LCD screens.

>> No.3828187

>>3825379
Frig off Randy

>> No.3828201
File: 204 KB, 1024x768, 77836101-f2c1-4dbe-8f49-454f2d9fcd37.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3828201

>> No.3828206

>>3828031
Except it was an acceptable tradeoff you ignorant person, you're probably too young to remember this but most 3D PC games around this time also lacked perspective correct texturing and for many years afterwards would give players the option to turn it off because it is resource intensive, especially considering this is 1994 hardware

>> No.3828227

>>3827616
N64 has a higher fill rate than PS1 though.

RCP is rated to deliver "all features on" except mipmaps, trilinear, and alpha blended fog at 62.5 MPixel/s. If the fill rate is slower, that's due to memory access, but you don't need much memory access for triangle setup since most of the time it'll fit in RSP's data cache.

PS1's GPU is rated at 33 MPixel/s with "all features on", but obviously, that's a far smaller number of features.

>> No.3828551

>>3826641
>What is true is that the early models had RCA out, which produced cleaner signal because the cables didn't have shitloads of interference from each other.

Those RCAs have really crappy op-amps preceding them which aren't present on the multi-av. Any serious audiophool CD player modification replaces those components, the only reason they revere the 100x is because they can use their placebo interconnects with GIRTH.

tl;dr any mainboard up to PU-18 (750x) has a decent AKM converter and multi-av audio via a breakout is the way to go.

>> No.3828587

>>3828551
>tl;dr any mainboard up to PU-18 (750x) has a decent AKM converter
Only issue I have with 750x is that Sony tended to use the "B grade" AKM DAC in those (when I say B grade, that's literally how they are defined in the AKM specs sheet. The older models use the "A grade" variant. Difference is pretty damn small between them though, better than the shitty DACs in later models).

>> No.3828836

>>3828206
I'm 37 and have not ONCE seen a PC game with fucked up perspective. Also if it was so acceptable how come one and only one machine is notorious for it? Every other machine of the time had perspective correct textures.

>> No.3829129

>>3826612
The anon is implying that teens and those in their early 20s were the ones who mainly utilised the PSX. These people, in the 90s, mostly attended raves in order to get high and went on holiday to scummy resort slums such as Ibiza in order to get even more high and drunk. As a result of their diminished perception and intellect, the anon implies that they would not care about their glaring flaw.

Basically, the Brit anon is calling you underclass scum. The most appropriate response to this is to glass him for being a fooking CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT

>> No.3829181

>>3822916
Epic

>> No.3829184

>>3828836
>not ONCE seen a PC game with fucked up perspective
Fatal Racing

>> No.3829208

>>3828136
lel no, I tried Hybrid Heaven with S-video on a CRT, it looked as blurry as on that pic

>> No.3829220

>>3826790
PSOne is minishit

>> No.3829230

>>3828206
Descent, Ultima Underworld, System Shock all had correct texture rendering and none of them (and none of the games that came after) had the option to reduce it to affline.

>> No.3829236

>>3829230
all those games ran like shit on the PCs of their day

>> No.3829262

>>3829236
yes, quake also. the manual actually says to expect the game to run at 17-20fps max. Fucking pathetic.

>> No.3829467

i called it playsi desu.

>> No.3829474

>>3822795
fceux sucks nestopia is better

>> No.3829479

>>3823970
beetlepsx does

>> No.3829487

when the hell did the n64 faggots come out of the woodwork? I thought we had chased them off

>> No.3829497

>>3829236
>too poor for a voodoo card

>> No.3829503

>>3829487

when the hell did the psx faggots come out of the woodwork? I thought we had chased them off

>> No.3829510
File: 65 KB, 640x480, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3829510

I think these low poly 3d graphics are very aesthetically appealing in an abstract sort of way. Haven't aged at all in my opinion.

>> No.3829515

>>3829497
underage? ultima underworld and system shock had no glide support

descent got its glide patch 2 years after release

>> No.3829557

>>3825339
Why the fuck do retarded third worlders try to tell people how things were

>> No.3829584

>>3829236
They eventually ran fine on a 486, so meh.
>>3829230
That fish lens effect in Underworld 1 was weird though.

>> No.3829587

>>3822836
Autists don't run zsnes in dosbox though.

>> No.3829602

>>3822684
As mentioned before , already fixed by a certain ePSXe plugin.

>> No.3829625

>>3828227
>N64 has a higher fill rate than PS1 though.

Who gives a shit?

>> No.3829631

>>3828836
Fighting Force had an option to toggle perspective correction on/off.

>> No.3829658

>>3829625
>Affine textures trade accuracy for higher fill rates.

>But the N64 has correct texure mapping and a higher fill rate

>Lol, who cares about fill rate

>> No.3831081

>>3829262
>Fucking pathetic.
Well, it was either that or not at all. There's nothing pathetic about getting Quake to run at that rate on such a machine.

I don't think you appreciate what a technical challenge Quake was.

>> No.3831102

>>3822916
is this rustled enrique review of duke 3d?

>> No.3831146

>>3829262
And still, it ran fine on my 486 DX. Note however, that all PS games looked pathetic in comparison.

Also Descent ran buttery smooth, don't know the exaqct FPS but I'd assume ~50 since it was geometrically simpler than Quake.

Ultima Underworld was notorious for being unoptimised crap, and that what prompted Carmack to make much more efficient Doom engine.

>> No.3831265

>>3829658
N64 came out two years later. Of course it is faster and newer.

>> No.3831272

>>3831146
>Descent ran buttery smooth, don't know the exaqct FPS but I'd assume ~50
That's very unlikely. Although there aren't any actual benchmarks floating around, this should be enlightening.

> The 486 starts straining in 320x400 in highest
detail.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.games.descent/Xa4LMzb0UCA[576-600]

That's referring to an AMD486-120, which was a lot faster than your typical 486 DX.

Also, even the fastest Intel 486 DX ever made runs Quake ran at under 10 FPS when set to factory clocks. But at least that's a case of not being designed for it. Descent and System Shock were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLrKxWL73Mw

>> No.3831595

>>3827768
Which is why the saturn was superior in all ways.

>> No.3831624

>>3831595
Saturn's texture mapping wasn't perspective correct either, except for VDP2 plains

>> No.3831658

>>3823078
Saturns textures warp even more and it cannot do transparency.

>> No.3831678

>>3823402
It is SimCity 2000. The thing is, this is just the "drive in the city you built" mode. It is a city building game, it does not look like that in normal gameplay, it uses 2D graphics and an overhead view. If it is like the PC version it is a good game actually.

How it looks in normal gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjiwVFG4Am4

>> No.3831694

>>3831272
But Descent was usually run at 320x200 in which it did OK on a 486.

>> No.3831697

>>3831272
Btw I don't see that post under that link.

>> No.3831704

>>3831272
I see it down. But have you seen PSX Descent? It runs like shit, worse than on a 486. Don't bring 320x400 into this, that is higher than resolution in most PSX games.

>> No.3832717

>>3831704
The post is also about a CPU which is faster than Intel's 486 DX. I'm guessing the framerate would likely be 20 rather than 50 on DX at 320x200.

Yes, the PS1 version of Descent is shit, but that's due to poor coding, as even Quake 2 runs fine on it.

>> No.3833439

>>3831678
nigga everybody knows what SC2k looks like, what the fuck man

>> No.3833989

>>3831624

Textures mapped to quads are generally less distorted than textures mapped to quads.

I also must say that I appreciate the Saturn's higher vertex accuracy.

>> No.3833997

>>3833989
I must say that I appreciate the PlayStation's superior library.

>> No.3834002

>>3833997

Yeah but that's not what this thread is about, EOP

>> No.3834005

>>3834002
>EOP
The PlayStation crushes its library even worse if you speak Japanese.

>> No.3834012
File: 139 KB, 512x512, Kain_SoulReaver-Stronghold-ReaverConvergence.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3834012

>>3824404
>Go Spiritual/Physical
>Distortions just amplifies the transformation of the rooms
It was really nice

>> No.3834090

>>3833989
>I also must say that I appreciate the Saturn's higher vertex accuracy.
Vertex accuracy is customization on Saturn because matrix calculations and such are almost all done in software on the two SH-2 CPUs (barely anybody used the Saturn's multipurpose hardware DSP). Theoretically, therefore, vertex accuracy should vary from game to game.

PS1's vertex calculations were performed on GTE, a DSP which was fixed into doing everything with low precision.

N64 does vertex shit on a hardware DSP as well called RSP, though it is microcode programmable so the level of precision is adjustable. However, the default Nintendo provided microcodes all have quite high precision. Contrary to popular belief, the high precision of vertex calculations from the default microcode is not the limiting factor preventing the console from pushing more polygons.

>> No.3834097

>>3834090

I find that most Saturn games have more stable vertices than the PS1's GTE produces. But you're right, since it's software T&L it's up to the programmer to make that decision.

In any case, the Saturn can't churn out polygons at the rate the PS1 can.

>> No.3834198
File: 205 KB, 768x330, nonpowerof2_texturedistortion.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3834198

>>3829230
Quake software renderer did texture correction for world graphics only once every 16 pixels (optionally 8 with d_subdiv16 0). Weapon/enemy models were pure affine (later versions added a perspective corrected option). Hardly anybody noticed.

>> No.3834206

>>3834198

is the middle one the correction every 16 pixels?

>> No.3834208

>>3834206
Looks like it, although https://www.quaddicted.com/engines/software_vs_glquake just says 2 and 3 are both corrected.

>> No.3834214

>>3822895
I like the same music as that guy. Never heard someone else mention leaether strip before, especially early leather strip

>> No.3834253
File: 21 KB, 489x328, ef36c195d8f4e91ff137a83d5db19573608b8da78e405f54dbd2a93fe2eb1020.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3834253

>>3824534

>> No.3835616

>>3829129

Thank you. Correct.

>> No.3835620

>>3833989
>Textures mapped to QUADS are generally less distorted than textures mapped to QUADS.

>> No.3836726

>>3823843
because you are underage

>> No.3836752

>>3822684
Do you analyze background textures while playing games? Sounds like you're better off looking at ingame screenshots on the internet

>> No.3836887

>>3836752
>le you're an autist meme.

>> No.3837074

>>3835620
Even when corrected, I don't buy it for a second. Quads are a bitch. Even with hardware caches optimized for quads, they don't buy you anything triangles don't already offer. Triangles are a much more natural primitive from a math perspective. Also their appearance is well defined, unlike quads which are heavily implementation dependent when you got cases like all 4 points not being coplanar, which is virtually guaranteed after model-view transformations with finite machine precision. I've implemented my own rendering engine, and know a thing or two about hardware design, and no way would I use them.

>> No.3837098

>>3828136
t. never used a CRT
blurry textures don't magically go away on them

>> No.3837495

>>3837098
They textures are still aliased, but it doesn't look like vaseline was smeared in the screen.

>> No.3837539

>>3823402
It's like Maxis wanted to port SimCopter to the PS1 but didn't have the time.

>> No.3837839

>>3837074
>you got cases like all 4 points not being coplanar, which is virtually guaranteed after model-view transformations with finite machine precision.
I appreciate your point here. Of course a triangle can never not be planar.

>> No.3838029

>>3837839
>>3837074

How important is a polygon being coplanar? I

>> No.3838038

>>3838029
It is if you want to prevent pixel overdraw, and, you know, heavy Z issues (a quad could can itself).

>> No.3838040

>>3838038

The Saturn has big problems with overdraw, doesn't it?
It also lacks a Z buffer like the Playstation.

>> No.3838041

>>3834097
>In any case, the Saturn can't churn out polygons at the rate the PS1 can.

It could as far as maths go, but the slow gpu held it back.

>> No.3838048

>>3838041

I thought the PS1's GTE was just plain faster than the Saturn at software T&L.

>> No.3838053

>>3838048
T&L is only part of the rendering.

>> No.3838065

>>3838053

What are the other stages of rendering done on the CPU in the Playstation and Saturn?

>> No.3838069

>>3838053
It's a pretty major part of rendering. Saturn can certainly spit out draw lists faster though if you take advantage of both CPUs. Same with general game logic.

Two SH-2s are unlikely to beat GTE at T&L. GTE actually was designed for SIMD while SH-2s were not. Maybe with the combined power of SH-2s + DSP. I still somehow doubt it.

Of course, as the other poster pointed out, VDP1 is gonna let the whole system down.

>> No.3838087

>>3838065
First you load a 3d model of a scenery, then transform all its coordinates according to whichever direction the camera is facing. Then you translate them to 2d coordinates to be drawn in the framebuffer (ie. the TV screen). PSX GTE helps with the 3d -> 2d transforms iirc, as well as helping with lightning calculations that use similar math.

But I might be wrong, I never actually wrote a 3d rasterizer before, so I admit that I do not fully understand the process. I'm awful at understanding matrix math.

>>3838069
The Saturn DSP is better at transforms than the SH2s, even despite running at half their speed. We have code examples that do transforms a third faster than the SH2, even accounting for the time require to move data from and to the DSP.

At a guess I'd say the 2xSH2 + DSP could transform polys close to as fast as the GTE, but only if you make them do that and that alone. However this is not a safe metric for either console, since the polygon rasterizers in both consoles cannot keep up. Not just the VDP1 either, but the PSX GPU as well (GTE can sort more polys than the GPU can draw).

>> No.3838092

>>3838087
>The Saturn DSP is better at transforms than the SH2s, even despite running at half their speed
Yes, certainly, wasn't disputing that. The DSP was actually optimized for SIMD, like GTE.

>However this is not a safe metric for either console, since the polygon rasterizers in both consoles cannot keep up
I think it can probably keep up in theory (assuming its doing nothing but drawing triangle strips) though yes, that's generally true. However, I don't entirely agree it can't keep up in practice either, because GTE will be doing more than transforms, extra cycles can be used for lighting and more accurate sorting.

>> No.3838098

>>3822916
>>3822916
>>3822916
>>3822916
>>3822916
>>3822916

>> No.3838458

>>3822916
Woah dude did you just say "psx"? I find that very problematic. Do you realize you're triggering people? It's 2017, you can't just go on the internet and call PlayStation "psx", you're obviously an underage and a bigot so I'm calling other oldfags and reporting you to mods

>> No.3839596
File: 5 KB, 320x108, index.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3839596

>>3838029
Real time graphics on retro systems (and most modern engines) exclusively render surfaces. The easiest surfaces to mathematically describe are planes. Curved surfaces are more complicated to describe, Bézier and NURBS surfaces being some of the most popular methods, but curves can also be drawn by breaking them up into small pieces approximated by planes. In this way, fast 3D graphics really boils down to being able to draw a planar surface primitive (and perhaps a line and point primitive).

In 3D, the minimum number of points needed to constrain a plane is 3. Any fewer points and a surface is no longer fully constrained (for instance, two points is fit by set of planes that can be spun around on the axis that is the line intersecting both points). More than three points can be used to specify a plane in 3D, however this specification is "overconstrained", meaning that either their must be redundancy in the specification of the plane, or the equations trying to describe the plane are inconsistent and no plane exists. In the case of quads, there are 4 points, and you don't have to know a lot of math to convince yourself that there are configurations of 4 points in which you can't draw a plane through.

So why do non coplanar points this matter? Shouldn't you be able to draw some sort of surface? Isn't there a fast and mathematically unambiguous way to do this? Since interpolation is a "filling in data where you don't have it" problem, the answer is there is no unambiguous way. Moreover, something like a minimal area surface (laplacian = second order derivatives) is computationally expensive to compute. Thus you are left with approximating the surface, for instance, with triangles! But even this presents issues (see the image I stole from somewhere). Once again, how to exactly go about drawing the badly behaved quad is not unambiguous, and thus depends on implementation.

Triangles suffer none of these issues.

>> No.3839604

>>3839596
I want to add that any claims about quads being more efficient because textures are rectangular is crap spouted by people who don't know how texture mapping works.

>> No.3839649
File: 602 KB, 1014x1524, Untitled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3839649

>>3824565

Here's an actual PS1 example, in Quake 2.

To be fair, those extra vertices are put to good use as the lightmaps are stored as vertex colors instead of textures.

>> No.3839661

>>3839649
Moreover, it encourages more detailed geometry.

>> No.3839678
File: 424 KB, 1022x1442, n64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3839678

>>3839661

It might, but it didn't for Quake 2. The N64 version has more detail because it has the polygon budget to add it.

Textures are shit, though.

>> No.3839720

>>3839649
> Artist: Hmm, this totally non-descript section of vertical way wall on the left needs 24x more polygons than it's visually identical counterparts flanking it.

>>3839678
> Tessellation programmer : I hate my job.

>> No.3839903

>>3839720
kek

>> No.3839912

>>3839678
The textures aren't that shit on the N64 version. Yes, the texture resolution is lower than on PS1, but they opted to give the textures a higher color depth - it's the trade-off.

Furthermore, the N64 version is quite probably the only full-3D game of that generation to run with a 24-bit framebuffer, so since they were aiming for that, it's a trade-off they were pretty much forced to make otherwise they'd squander the benefits.

>> No.3840365
File: 873 KB, 2030x1524, revolt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3840365

Another example, this time from Re-Volt. PS1 still looks better overall, though.

This isn't a universal thing. Gex 3's identical on both systems.

>> No.3840391

>>3828227
N64 managed to hit every 3d feature checkmark, but it didn't matter when you had to cram all of those textures into an 8MB cartridge.

>> No.3840409
File: 34 KB, 439x744, resident_evil_2_wireframe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3840409

>>3840365
Not really along the lines of what you are trying to show but I'll post it anyway. The extra polys on the N64 version of RE2 are there to accommodate the new and improved animations.

>> No.3840427

>>3840365
>>3840409
Didn't the N64 use quads as opposed to triangles or are they being converted by blender in these screens?

>> No.3840430

>>3840427
No, that was the Saturn. N64 used tris.

>> No.3840576

>>3822537
>implying I didn't have a colossal amount of fun with my PS1 anyhow
>implying I give a fuck about such a superficial thing

>> No.3840938

>>3822537
So how would one reproduce this effect on purpose for the appearance of looking "retro"? Seems like it could be a cool filter.

>> No.3840974

>>3840938
Interpolate all textures in screen coordinates rather than perspective correct coordinates. In other words, transform your geometry like it's 3D, but fill in your textures like it's 2D. See >>3827768

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