/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3819552]

More like... majora's fetch quest. All you do is run around and do arbitrary side missions that are tedious, because of the time mechanics. The game has 4 dungeons and the rest is just padding that woudln't even take long without the 3 day cycle. garbage.

People only say they like this the best of the Zeldas to be contrarian or "durr muh atmosphere."

[Anonymous No.3819587]

>>3819552
Here's your (You)

[Anonymous No.3820096]

It's objectively the least Zelda-like of the Zelda games bar Zelda II, but that doesn't make it a bad game.

To use that old awful expression, "It's a good game, but it's a bad Zelda game."

That said. It's my favorite 3D Zelda, but this is coming from someone whose favorite 2D Zelda is Minish Cap, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous No.3820110]

The sidequests were the point of the game. It was all about getting involved in the lives of all these people who are going to die in 3 days.
It was clearly 2DEEP4U

[Anonymous No.3820295]

>>3820096

Combat aside Zelda 2 inspired a shit ton of mechanics that were used by later Zeldas

[Anonymous No.3820302]

>>3819552

The real innovation of MM was the transformations, lorefags as usual have no clue

[Anonymous No.3820304]

>>3819552
The essence of Zelda is exploration and putting a shitty time limit into the game stifles that. I always disliked MM because of this; couldn't ever get into it really.

[Anonymous No.3820305]

I liked how the dungeons were decently challenging instead of making you go through 3+ filler dungeons before shit would finally start to get real.

[Anonymous No.3820325]

>because of the time mechanics

double song of time and inverted song of time, son.

[Anonymous No.3820338]

>>3820304
>The essence of Zelda is exploration and putting a shitty time limit into the game stifles that
but it's okay when Metroid does it

[Anonymous No.3820371]

>>3820304
It only stifles it when you can't accept or adapt to the game's rules.
In reality it was somewhat unique and great because it added another dimension to your exploration; not just the map but the map at different times.

I realize other games did NPC schedules or time sensitive quests earlier, like Ultima 7, but the "Groundhog Day" approach of MM, exploring 3 days repeatedly with adventure style puzzles and sequences ontop of dungeon crawling was a fantastic concept and stands out among the standard "explore the world" fantasy adventure design of other (especially Zelda) titles.

[Anonymous No.3820375]

>>3820338
?

[Anonymous No.3820407]

>>3820371
This. It's the only game I can think of that actually does temporal exploration right.

Also OPs statement got me wondering, how many of the side quests are actually fetch quests? Theres the Anju/Kafei quest, but that involves a lot more than going from point a to point b. You actually have to figure out the whole sequence of events and how to trigger them.

The only true fetch quest I can think of in the game is the deed trading with the deku salesmen.

[Anonymous No.3820415]

>>3820375
I think he's talking about the speed run bonuses in each Metroid game. And I like MM but that's a false equivalency, nobody is expected to beat a Metroid game in under two hours on their first play through. It's a speed run bonus not a core mechanic of the game.

Unless he's talking about the one or two times escapes during each game, but those are only at the very beginning or end. Also not really comparable to MM.

Or maybe it's just a shitpost, idfk

[Anonymous No.3820610]

>>3820110
If I wanted a story, I'd read a book lmao. So you're saying the actual gameplay is trash? I agree.

>>3820325
I used those, it's still just needlessly annoying.

[Anonymous No.3820903]

I find it impossible to get in to this game. the controls are just jenky.

[Anonymous No.3820916]

>>3819552
I've never put much effort into the side quests, but I find the game to be one of my absolute favorite zeldas. I apologize for the non-/vr/ comparison, but the dungeons and their little lead up story feel like 4 perfect dlc's for OoT.

[Anonymous No.3821094]

>>3820304
>The essence of Zelda is exploration

Really? I find most Zeldas barely even need you to explore at all, because the story always tells you exactly where to go.

[Anonymous No.3821112]

>>3819552
The time limit isnt that bad once you realise you don't necessarily have to do too everything for an area in one cycle.

[Anonymous No.3821449]

>>3819552

The time limit ruined the game which already sucked to begin with. Nintendo games are shit.

[NESfag No.3821452]

The issues were:
- having to constantly re-do the same small annoying tasks
- the game constantly tries to waste your time because it knows you're running against the clock, and it REALLY wants you to redo it all again
- some ultra obscure stuff like getting the 500 rupees wallet


Honestly it's filler. They took an add-on, decided to sell it full price, so they added a lot of padding.

And then there is the Zora character and his dungeon, which play absolutely god awful.
>hurr ddurr my animation are so crap I can't hit shit, it's like I'm playing a bad early 3D beat em up like The Crow
>the game knows this so instead of putting challenging enemies in the dungeon, they only put annoying enemies made to waste your time and annoy you instead

[Anonymous No.3821507]

>>3821094
Aonuma hated the original Zelda because he sucked at action games, kept getting lost and basically didn't get what how brilliant the design was, Nintendo put a guy that despises the raw essence of the franchise in charge of it.

So what happened? No more arcade action, no more exploration, no more experimentation, just stupid plot, easy and mechanical battles, handholding everywhere.

[Anonymous No.3821515]

>>3821507

The real problem is that plebs actually liked his toon shit.

[Anonymous No.3821554]

>>3821515
It only got worse the longer Aonuma was in charge. The maximum bullshit that was SS and the DS games is phenomenal, those games would have gotten burried and forgotten under a ton of feces if not for the Zelda branding.

[Anonymous No.3821596]

>>3820610
>I used those, it's still just needlessly annoying.

What about it is annoying? Reverse song of time gives you enough time to do most quests without running out of time.
Maybe try to get better?

[Anonymous No.3821598]

>>3821452
>it's like I'm playing a bad early 3D beat em up like The Crow

You're shitposting hard right now, namefag.
What was so hard about the boomerang attack of Zora link? Couldn't get the hang of it?

[Anonymous No.3821631]

The whole game is just one long fetch quest with very little actual content.

>b-but muh atmosphere and le quirky characters!

[Anonymous No.3821635]

>>3821596
>What about is annoying?
Uh, having to turn back time and do the same shit over again? It's still annoying even if you don't have to do it as often.
>le git gud
I beat the game when I was 8, it isn't challenging, it's annoying. Not an argument.

>>3821598
>le git gud
Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.3821683]

>>3821635
I, and I assume most people, disagree about the annoying argument.
Most of the poorly reasoned stuff in the above post is subjective and/or based on his personal (retarded) feelings anyway but regarding the necessity to re-do parts in MM:
It's an integral part of the game's design. You have to treat time as a resource and schedule your movement and exploration properly. Yes, that includes mistakes, learning, and doing it all over. Similar to say, arcade platformers where you're expected to repeat the same stuff until your knowledge and skill increases enough to beat it.
BUT the game offers enough shortcuts (with boss warps and items/songs and player knowledge) to reduce the annoying aspect of the cycle design to a minimum.

I argue that it's really fun despite slightly annoying parts, like the best of games, and it's pretty much the last Zelda game to not treat the player like a dumbass and guide him through everything and requires active thinking and resource management (which goes from the time aspects and overworld exploration/side quests to dungeon design).

[Anonymous No.3821684]

>>3820304
I felt that by adding the time limit the game had a whole new dimension of exploring. Certain events only happen in certain areas at certain times (often only under certain conditions). I've replayed it three times and while I always obtained all the masks and stuff, each time I ended up discovering some new event and tons of event variants. That's exploring too. In my opinion it was more interesting than exploring a huge but ultimately empty overworld at your leisure.

[Anonymous No.3821694]

>>3821683
A tip of my fedora to you, sir.

[Anonymous No.3821698]

>>3821635
>Uh, having to turn back time and do the same shit over again?
If you had to do the same shit over again, then you didn't do it right

>I beat the game when I was 8
Anecdotal evidence (that can't be proven anyway) is irrelevant when you're in 2017 bitching about it endlessly on a japanese animation image board.

[Anonymous No.3821703]

>>3821631
>>3821635
>le
You have to go back.

[Anonymous No.3821914]

>>3821694
Op isn't looking for something constructive. Unfortunately they're either too simple minded or just wanted shitpost about the game

[Anonymous No.3821915]

>>3819552
It's my favorite 3D Zelda, but that's not really saying much since I hate basically all 3D Zelda games. MM is tolerable, all the others are a boring slog at best.

Things I like:
The time cycle(git gud).
All the events/sidequests.
Overall feel of the game.
Dungeons were really good, aside from the great bay temple. Getting the fairies in there was really frustrating.

Things I do not like:
Janky controls, trying to aim is a nightmare. Ocarina also has this issue.
Losing items when you reset time.
Some things in the game are very obscure and hard to find/do.
Combat is generally too easy. All 3D Zeldas share this issue, though.

To be fair, everything below the janky controls is a minor complaint that doesn't really bother me that much.

[Anonymous No.3821925]

>>3821915
>Janky controls, trying to aim is a nightmare. Ocarina also has this issue.

Are you playing with a N64 controller or something else?

[Anonymous No.3821932]

>>3821925
Emulating. The problem for me is that the slow movement for aiming is really hard to trigger, and in most cases it's just move fast, stop, etc. It makes the shooting games super hard.

[Anonymous No.3821936]

>>3821932
Yeah, you should try with the real N64 controller, the stick is very sensitive and hard (or impossible) to emulate with other controllers.

[Anonymous No.3821945]

If the N64 Zeldas never clicked with me when I first played them but I want to try them again, should I emulate the originals or play the remakes?

[Anonymous No.3821948]

>>3821945
I haven't played MM3D, but OOT3D is pretty good.

[Anonymous No.3821960]

>>3819552
You can get everything in the game (masks, dungeons, bottles, etc) in only about 8 cycles. It's really not that bad.

[Anonymous No.3822087]

>>3819552

Right on OP.

Also the graphics are MUCH worse and more blurry than OoT, and the framerate is shit. Whoever made the game didn't have the talent or drive as the AAA team that made OoT.

Game is a shit Zelda game, but maybe a good game. But I never could get into it.

[Anonymous No.3822110]

>>3819552
OP is a fag

[Anonymous No.3822314]

>>3821960
>8 cycles
pfft
I can 100% that shit in 6 with no pressure, maybe less if I actually got tryhard over it

[Anonymous No.3822317]

>>3822087
>Also the graphics are MUCH worse and more blurry than OoT
now that's just bait

[Anonymous No.3822349]

>>3820295

I'm trying to think of what you're talking about but all I can think of are things that were never used again like castable magic spells, random enemy encounters, leveling up, non-selectable inventory

[Anonymous No.3822516]

>>3822349

There were spells and magic incorporated already in Alttp, also multifloor layouts, names and towns, several enemies like spiders and bosses were reused.

Zelda 2 bought a lot of concepts that were later repurpoused and recycled.

[Anonymous No.3822656]

>>3819552
I don't like the time cycle or the fetch quests either, but plenty of people do.
To each his own.
I would've liked to see less emphasis on the town and more on the overworld / dungeons.

[Anonymous No.3823254]

>>3822349
Look familiar?

[Anonymous No.3825515]

>>3820110
Still, no one died because i kept reseting time. I saved everyone.

>>3820304
I played LTTP, OoT, MM, WW and my favorite was WW with OoT right behind. I loved exploring in WW even when all i got was a few ruppes.

>>3821452
Gyorg was the only boss in a Zelda game to kill me 3 times.

>>3822656
Agreed, only Stone Tower was good.

[Anonymous No.3825594]

>>3821683

Except arcade games aren't padded.

[Anonymous No.3825872]

>>3820304
>and putting a shitty time limit into the game stifles that.
All games have time limits, some are shorter than others.

Hardware rots away
Controllers break down
Games get scratched and damaged
You grow old and move on

Navi is never coming back

[Anonymous No.3825885]

>>3819552
Its redo city, buy wait thetes more....literally nothing else.

Ive tried countless times to get into it. Its suppose to be creepy and shit. If i want to repetitively run back and forth, scared shitless... ill play resident evil!

[Anonymous No.3825894]

>>3821452
This 100%

[Anonymous No.3825914]

>>3825885
>Its suppose to be creepy and shit.
This is the problem with people who try Majora because they've heard from someone that the game is creepy and is like a cult to death game.
I've come across people who never played any Zelda game but they wanted to try Majora's Mask. Then they download a shitty emulator and play the game for an hour or two, get stuck on clock town, rage when they lose the 30 rupees they collected when they have to reset time, and drop the game.

Majora's Mask is meant to be played after OOT. I mean, it's a direct sequel, and also is more challenging. As some other anon said, there is no tutorial dungeons, the first dungeon will kick your ass if you're not used to play OOT.
Not to mention the whole Termina is more hostile than Hyrule was.
The time limit is easily dealt with the ocarina, you can control the flow of time, the game gives you 6 hours of play (IIRC) when you slow down the time, that's plenty of time for doing a whole dungeon. You can also save in between cycles thanks to the owl statues (which I think were added to the western versions of the game and weren't in the original japanese), so really, all complains about the time limit are just from people who didn't figure out how it works - the time limit is barely an issue and is only there to work as a way to make the game dynamic with NPCs schedules. Using the schedule book to track down a certain NPC activity is part of the fun on MM.
The only way the time limit can fuck you up is if you can't find all the stray fairies on a dungeon, but again 6 hours is plenty of time, I think. Getting all the stray fairies is also not mandatory to beat the game.

[Anonymous No.3825967]

>>3819552
It's actually a good Zelda game. The most arcade Zelda game ever since you're tied to a time limit in order to complete certain quest, get certain items and experience events.

[Anonymous No.3826320]

>>3825885
It's literally just an expansion pack for OoT, the four dungeons and they realized that's a pretty shite for a full game so they added a bunch of filler and arbitrary rewind mechanics to pad the game out.

[Anonymous No.3826430]

>>3826320
The game actually started development because of the side-quests and the masks. They said they wanted to do a lot more with the masks on OOT but couldn't due to deadlines, so if anything the dungeons were made to make it a full game, but the first reason to make majora was the masks and the side quests.

[Anonymous No.3826450]

>>3825872
2deep4me

[Anonymous No.3826818]

That's the beauty of this game, chumps. You think the side quests are shit? Don't do them. You can play this game however you want, and imo the only parts it drags on are the Pirate Fortress and the Gibdo Well. The only quest I'd say is blatant padding is Don Gero's, and the fact you have to do the Anju/Kafei quest twice. Personally I love it. It has the best Zelda 3D Zelda bosses, a fully-functioning town on a 3 day loop with tons of shit to do (which I happen to find most of charming, but to each his own) and tree alternate forms of Link to control, all fun to use and encapsulating several items. The over world is a hell of a lot better than Ocarina, the dungeons are some of the best of the franchise, and it's got that old adventure game charm, with the masks and songs functioning as items did in those. It's definitely my favorite 3D Zelda.

The 3DS version makes the overall experience smoother but it also fucked up the bosses and Zora Link. What a shame.

[Anonymous No.3826828]

>>3819552
>All you do is run around and do arbitrary side missions that are tedious

You just described every Zelda game. They're all the same.

[Anonymous No.3826841]

>>3819552

Zelda was the best N64 ever got. PlayStation had much better games. But because those faggots at Nintendo made it, it is somehow a masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.3826845]

>>3826841
Goemon was better than Zelda, and the PS1 3D goemon was shite.

[Anonymous No.3826882]

>>3825885
This.

I think the game rewards you not by playing well, but for memorizing a sequence of events. Every time I try to go back to play it, I'm hoping that once I get past "that" part that I'll get to see some challenging gameplay, but nope. Every task seems to be triggering events to occur in order to progress.

In fact, I don't ever think I "died" in Majora's Mask, but rather gave up because I couldn't figure out what to do or follow it in an efficient enough matter for the game's time cycles. Normally, the appropriate argument would be to "git gud", but that's not the type of challenge I find rewarding, or even fun.

[Anonymous No.3826932]

>>3826882
How far did you get?

[Anonymous No.3827141]

>>3821596
mAYBE BLEEBLOOBLEEBLOO LE TWITCH MEMES XD

[Anonymous No.3827150]

>>3827141
Are you okay, anon?

[Anonymous No.3828540]

>>3826845
i think zelda is probably the objectively better game but goemon has way more replay value

[Anonymous No.3828601]

>>3821915
>Losing items when you reset time
I fail to see how so many people are too stupid to figure out that the numerous grass patches around clock town with respawning enemies that are extremely easy to kill and have a guaranteed drop rate of whatever item is represented on their character model are there specifically to restock all your items after each time reset and only take two or three patches and less than 2 minutes completely resupply.

[Anonymous No.3828608]

>This thread

It's amazing how people with such shit taste and opinions tend to be the most vocal, obnoxious, and self-righteous about it

[Anonymous No.3828618]

>>3828608
right? majorafags are so deluded

[Anonymous No.3828636]

>>3828618
>wahh! why can't I autistically look at textures for hours on end while playing an underdeveloped fishing minigame!?
>wahh! why am i too stupid to understand a pretty straightforward time travel mechanic where an unnecessary option exists that all but mitigates any pressure it might have added to the game?
>wahh! hurr durr FOUR DUNGEONS lmao even though the areas leading up to the dungeons have more player involvement and problem solving than any of the other Zelda's including Ocarina of Time

See how stupid you sound?

[Anonymous No.3828713]

>>3819552
Literally the worst Zelda game. It's for people that don't know what Zelda is or never really liked true Zelda.

[Anonymous No.3828719]

>>3828636
whom are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.3828785]

It's easy to see how MM can be divisive
>people who like creative intelligent game and world design, a moderate challenge that requires some thought, planning, navigational and observational skill and interest in unusual/unfamiliar structure
"MM is great"
>people who prefer guidance, switching off while playing prefab familiar "adventures" and are unwilling to truly observe, explore, learn and solve problems by themselves in games
"MM is shit"

[Anonymous No.3828814]

>>3828601
Rolling around the field as goron link for like 20 seconds will usually leave you maxed out.

It's a slight annoyance but nowhere near gamebreaking.

>>3826818
Fucking this. People hear the sidequests are the meat of the game and think it's best to force 100% on a first playthrough, then complain about all the optional cutscenes.

It's gotten to the point where the main story is the underrated part of the game. Despite what people say, the main story is a fucking huge part of it. The side-quests are MAYBE half the game.

[Anonymous No.3830641]

All I know is that sandworm boss with the Giant's mask tripped me out hardcore. I didn't even know who I was anymore. All I knew is I was having fun in a highly imaginative world.

[Anonymous No.3830738]

>>3819552
There were parts of Majoras mask I liked. But overall, not my favorite

[Anonymous No.3831260]

>>3820304
Agreed.

[Anonymous No.3831305]

>>3827150
Tomorrow will be less okay than today, for most of us.