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/vr/ - Retro Games


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3813496 No.3813496 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

So, we know both of this console have bad hardware.

But who is the worst?

>> No.3813503
File: 233 KB, 800x320, wew.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3813503

both have their ups and downs

>> No.3813515

>>3813503
Saturn looks best on that one

>> No.3813520

N64 was like apples and oranges and it still kind of is.

>> No.3813524

>>3813515
Are you high?

>> No.3813528

>>3813524
just at a glance I think, but please tell me why I am wrong faggot

>> No.3813598

>>3813528
Ultra-warped textures
Not a triangle

>> No.3813609 [DELETED] 

>>3813598
They look bad.

Enjoy

>> No.3813616

>>3813598
They all look bad.

Enjoy

>> No.3813629

>>3813496
The PS1

>> No.3813668

>>3813496
I'm a Sega fan and I must say Saturn, due to lack of games.

It's the only Sega console I don't own. It was that disappointing.

>> No.3813681

>>3813524
It does to me to, much smoother than the others.

>> No.3813689

>>3813503
>saturn
>triangle
ya blew it

>> No.3813725

>>3813689
Look closer senpai

>> No.3813757

Saturn didn't have true 3D graphics. N64 had inferior video memory. Not sure which is more important.

>> No.3813771

>>3813757
>N64 had inferior video memory
Even if you divide the amount of RAM bandwidth the N64 has by half, it still has more bandwidth than all of Saturn's VRAM combined.

>> No.3813776

>>3813496
The N64 had fucking amazing hardware for it's time though.
It's only flaw is lack of DMA for the CPU.

>> No.3813782

>>3813776
>It's only flaw is lack of DMA for the CPU.
Literally a myth see >>3813290

>> No.3813793

>we

You're implying everyone on /vr/ is a sonygger? Because that's not true.

As far as 5th gen goes, N64 had best 3D (only topped a few years later by PC, with the 3dfx cards) and Saturn had best 2D.

>> No.3813801

>>3813668
It has more games than the n64 and better games than the ps1. you aren't a sega fan, you're just an idiot

>> No.3813802

>>3813793

Loved the beefy poly count, hated the weird as fuck blurred and stretched gouraud shading.

>> No.3813804

>>3813793
the more extreme examples of saturns 3D kinda put N64's to shame. Panzer Dragoon still strikes with a sense of awe in its visuals but there's an undeniable mess in the presentation of almost every 3D game on the N64.

>> No.3813810
File: 398 KB, 723x520, eva01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3813810

>>3813804
Panzer Dragoon (especially Zwei) is amazing, but it's not without its strange visual hiccups (see the sky on level 2, for example).
I don't know what N64 games you've played, but they were the most impressive 3D on consoles in 5th gen.
You won't find anything close to Evangelion 64 in terms of graphics in either PS1 or Saturn.

>> No.3813818
File: 2.66 MB, 640x360, panzer_dragoon.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3813818

>>3813804
This is Panzer Dragoon, a launch window game, captured from an actual Sega Saturn.

>> No.3813823

>>3813818
I think most people who browse this board know about Panzer Dragoon, but nice webm anyway.

>> No.3813825
File: 2.86 MB, 640x360, wave-race-64.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3813825

>>3813818
This is Wave Race 64, a launch window game, captured from an actual Nintendo 64 (albeit using slightly inferior capture equipment).

>> No.3813829
File: 2.66 MB, 640x360, wdc3.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3813829

>>3813825
This is World Driver Championship, a game released in 1999, captured from an actual Nintendo 64.

>> No.3813830
File: 2.49 MB, 480x360, conk2.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3813830

>>3813829
This is Conker's Bad Fur Day, a game released in 2001, captured from an actual Nintendo 64.

Does anybody have any later-gen Saturn games to nominate for capture?

>> No.3813882

>>3813830

Should look into how Rare pulled it off by offloading work the console should've done directly from the cart.

>> No.3813891

>>3813882
>offloading work the console should've done directly from the cart.
That is quite simply not possible for an arbitrarily rotated 3D game such as this.

>> No.3813935

>>3813891

The texture caching was worked around. This is why cdrom was the way to go and not piling on antialiasing and blur filters to not make the textures not look so stretched out.

Basically carts and better graphics do not mix and it wouldn't be the first time piracy concerns handicapped a Nintendo console.

>> No.3813951

>>3813496
How is that even a question? Saturn was fucking garbage.

>> No.3813953

>>3813935
>The texture caching was worked around
You physically cannot work around it, only work better with it. The GPU's texture unit cannot even *see* main RAM, it has no physical connection to it. The texture unit only sees the texture cache.

>This is why cdrom was the way to go
CD-ROM or cartridges has nothing to do with it.

>not piling on antialiasing and blur filters to not make the textures not look so stretched out
There's some strange logic here...anti-aliasing and "blur-filters" (I'm guessing you're referring to N64's dither post-processing?) were not designed to conceal texture quality. The former was designed to reduce jaggies and the latter was designed to reduce color banding.

>> No.3813960

>>3813953

The blurriness itself was from stretching 4kb textures that the console was limited to thanks to cart storage

>> No.3813972

>>3813818
This looks early PS2, holy shit.

>>3813830
>>3813829
>>3813825
These look like PS1 games

>> No.3813980

>>3813972
Yeah nah

>> No.3813981

>>3813960
There were multiple reasons for poor texture quality in some N64 games. Cartridge space was only one of those reasons. Perhaps a more serious reason was that the N64's RAM was difficult to deal with (high risk of bus contention) in conjunction with hardware texture size limit (4 KB). This texture size limit existed to eliminate bus contention from texture filtering, but also had the consequence of increasing bus contention if developers wanted textures larger than 4 KB.

Since many developers were unable to manage the N64's memory properly and keep bus contention at bay, they simply opted to keep texturing in games very simple. It also meant keeping the ROM size down, so there was a double benefit.

Conker doesn't suffer from these issues since the cartridge is plenty large, and Rare had by then mastered programming the console, so they minimized memory bus contention allowing the console to truly flex its muscles.

>> No.3813993

>>3813980
Which opinion of mine are you disputing? That Panzer Dragoon looks like an early PS2 game? It kind of does. That the cherry-picked N64 games look like PS1 games? They kinda do.

>> No.3813994

>>3813993
PS1 couldn't handle any of those

>> No.3814004

>>3813818
First time I've ever seen this thing in motion.

Not really digging that camera, desu.

>> No.3814009

>>3813994
Yeah, okay, dude. They don't totally look like Gran Tourismo, Spyro, and some third game.

>> No.3814010

>>3813496
N64 had an awful frame rate in a big chunk of its games. Nothing I play on saturn feels like a slide show. I'll go with saturn just because framerate is a pet peeve of mine.

>> No.3814012

>>3813496
Worst hardware? We all know.
But DoDonpachi alone shits on everything the 64 has to offer.

>> No.3814018

>>3814010
>Nothing I play on saturn feels like a slide show. I'll go with saturn just because framerate is a pet peeve of mine.
Quake on Saturn makes Perfect Dark feel 60 fps.

>>3814012
>DoDonpachi alone shits on everything the 64 has to offer.
The Saturn version of that game isn't even better than the PS1 version.

>> No.3814021

>>3814018
>The Saturn version of that game isn't even better than the PS1 version.
Still better than any n64 game.

>> No.3814027

Saturn = Tryhard meme machine with nogaemz

N64 = Based box redpills normies on retro gaming

No contest.

>> No.3814039

>>3814027
You have to be 18+ to post here.

>> No.3814045

>>3813496
My favorite console from the era is the PS1, but I prefer the Saturn over the N64.

Sure, perspective correction, bilinear filtering and Z-buffering are great features, but I can't stand the framerate in many N64 classics. In-house Nintendo games are fine (Mario 64 and F-Zero are great, Zelda: OoT is doable, I think it runs at 20FPS or so), but most RARE games are disgusting, Perfect Dark is unplayable,

2D ones from that era aged the best and the Saturn is full of 2D games, especially fighting games, a genre which I love.

>> No.3814051

>>3814010
>. Nothing I play on saturn feels like a slide show. I'll go with saturn just because framerate is a pet peeve of mine.

Tomb Raider, Wipeout, and Daytona all ran at only 20fps on the Saturn.

>> No.3814052
File: 2.85 MB, 640x360, pd3.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3814052

>>3814045
>unplayable
Well sure the framerate isn't great but unplayable? I thought that word had a different meaning.

>> No.3814059
File: 49 KB, 425x393, garegga.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3814059

>>3814012
At least post a good port retard

>> No.3814063

>>3814027

Saturn was PC Engine 2.0, huge library locked up in nipland.

N64 was Goldeneye and Mariokart box.

PS1 was snes 2.0.

>> No.3814069

>>3813801
>muh weeb shit

>> No.3814090

>>3813503
some n64 games runs at 60fps

>> No.3814102

>>3813810

Look at that text and tell me this wasn't emulated.

>> No.3814103

N64 shit on every other console for graphics at the time.

>> No.3814104

>>3814063
Playstation was Interactive Movie Player 1.0

>> No.3814110

>>3814104

I call it snes 2.0 purely from the amount of good third party games. The fuck are you basing yours on?

>> No.3814120

>>3814110

Actually scratch that, take 'good' out of the equation. PS1 was the only console of the generation to deliver a satisfying amount of third party anything period.

>> No.3814134

>>3814110
I base it on the fact that its most notable games were interactive movies such as FF7, MGS and Resident Evil, and that most games made for Sony systems are what I consider more movie than game.

>> No.3814180

>>3813810
>I don't know what N64 games you've played, but they were the most impressive 3D on consoles in 5th gen.

They didn't get any impressive 3d games until the late 90s, by which time the Dreamcast was already out.

>> No.3814184

>>3813981
If anything, using carts helped improved texture quality, since they could stream textures from the cart completely randomly as needed. With CD this wouldn't have been possible due to gigantic latency of the cd drive, they'd be limited entirely by what textures fit in memory. At best they could load levels room by room dynamically, like how Halo did on the xbox.

>> No.3814190

>>3814059
Dodonpachi was a good port (you might be thinking of Donpachi, which was indeed crap on the Saturn due to excessive random slowdowns), and Battle Garegga is the Ikaruga of Saturn shmups.

>> No.3814262

>>3814027
>N64
>Based

Pick one and only one

>> No.3814265

>>3814190
>Dodonpachi was a good port
no it wasn't dumbass
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37679

>and Battle Garegga is the Ikaruga of Saturn shmups
A near perfect arcade port? cool memes retard

>> No.3814289

Hardware strength:
N64 > Saturn > PSX

Library quality:
Saturn > N64 > PSX

>> No.3814302

>>3814265
>width of the screen is 4px, this makes the port complete trash compared to the pcb

holy shit how autistic can you get.

>> No.3814306

>>3814302
did you even read the rest you retarded fuck

>> No.3814404

>>3814063
>N64 was Goldeneye and Mariokart box.

I don't know why I am seeing so many trashing on N64 these days. The console was great with tons of great games. Super Smash Bros is arguably the greatest most recent IP they have created. I can't really think of anything else they made after this game that is a new IP that can match up to the success of SSB.

OOT, SM64, Doom 64, tons of racing games, Star Fox, and many more great games for this console.

>> No.3814409

>>3814102
Yep, it's emulated. It looks even better on real hardware and a CRT. Moreso since Evangelion 64 (like many other N64 games) doesn't emulate very well.
>>3814180
Wave Race 64 was released before the Dreamcast.

>> No.3814513

>>3813496
Playstation games have aged the worst of the 3 systems. Playstation can't in to floating point. The texture tearing is painful to look at.

>> No.3814540

The N64 was artificially limited by cartridges and Nintendo limiting how close to the metal developers could get. It could however do 3D the nicest out the three major 5th gen consoles without unpleasant wobbling models or janky quadrilateral polygons.

The Saturn had expensive, outlandish, and overly-complicated architecture that needed fucking Assembly to fully utilize. It was however a 2D powerhouse that could bring the arcade feel home coupled with the bountiful size of CDs and easily-increased RAM.

As for games it depends on who you were or where you were. Americans adore the N64 and it has a very good library over here while the Saturn ate dirt, in Japan the situation is reversed with lots of Saturn support while the N64 was neglected.

>> No.3814573

>>3814289
>Library quality:
Saturn > N64 > PSX
stop shitposting

>> No.3814576 [DELETED] 

>>3814573
>
It's only shitposting to a Sonygger.

Saturn got the best 2D games and N64 got the best 3D games, objectively speaking. PSX was a master of nothing but shovelware.

>> No.3814580

>>3814576
Okay kiddo ;)

>> No.3814582
File: 12 KB, 320x240, smugsegata.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3814582

>>3814580
Pretending to be old won't make you right, Sonybabby.

>> No.3814590

>>3814289
>Library quality:
>Saturn > N64 > PSX
My sides

>> No.3814591

>>3814404
>I don't know why I am seeing so many trashing on N64 these days.
Contrarian faggots

>> No.3814593

>>3814540
>in Japan the situation is reversed with lots of Saturn support while the N64 was neglected.

This is an exaggeration, N64 didn't sold as many units as the Saturn (although not too far either), but n64 did sold more software than Saturn in Japan.
In reality, Japan got more N64 games than the rest of the world.

All in all, all 3 consoles managed to exist together, even if PS1 was far ahead, the only one that really did kind of bad was Saturn outside of Japan, but still did better than systems like 3DO or Jaguar.

>> No.3814613

The saturn suffered in the west for the lack of localized titles, the n64 while technologically superior, suffered some issues with a lack of rpgs, coming from the snes which had a ton of rpgs, to basically none. The PSX did get a lot of support from various 3rd parties, which helped it ultimately sell the most.

desu N64 I feel is the weakest, as I really like rpgs, but then again it's all up to preference,

>> No.3814617

>>3814590
>>Library quality:
>>Saturn > N64 > PSX
>My sides

Your absolutely right. It should be:
Saturn > PSX > N64

>> No.3814618

>>3814617
Might as well finish this.
N64>PS1>Saturn

>> No.3814619

>>3814617
Nonexistent > Shovelware > Sleepovers

>> No.3814621
File: 90 KB, 800x625, 130387-gunbird-2-dreamcast-inside-cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3814621

/VR/ HEY!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg


I THINK THIS VIDEO WOULD INTEREST SOME OF YOU

>> No.3815190

>>3813496
saturn had had awesome hardware for a home console, n64 on the other hand didn't push nearly as many polygons as promised

>> No.3815192

>>3814289
>Hardware strength:
> Saturn > PSX > N64

>Library quality:
> Saturn > PSX > N64

>> No.3815215

>>3813496

Both consoles produced cool graphics though. You could still distinguish between 6th gen games' platforms, but the 5th gen is the last time consoles had truly unique looks informed by the hardware architecture, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.

I miss that. I miss the technicalities of it all. Nowadays it's just a linear scale of weak to strong with no identity or novelty.

>> No.3815217

>>3813496

Both consoles produced cool graphics though. You could still distinguish between 6th gen games' platforms, but the 5th gen is the last time consoles had truly unique looks informed by the hardware architecture, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.

I miss that. I miss the technicalities of it all. Nowadays it's just a linear scale of weak to strong.

>> No.3815256

>>3813503
perfection

>> No.3815331

>>3815190
Not quite right. Saturn's hardware underperformed at 3D. N64 delivered exactly what Nintendo promised, and absolutely nothing more. It was PS1 that exceeded people's expectations, particularly as Sony was an unknown quality for making game machines.

>> No.3815359

>>3814306
Yes, I did. All it is is rambling that his autistic practiced-for-a-year play pattern does not work on the first try on the Saturn port because it runs at 60fps instead of the arcade boards 56fps, and therefore it is junk and is a completely different game.

It is the stupidest bashing I've ever seen, on par with the blue shadows for street fighter alpha.

>> No.3815371

>>3815359
hello normie

>> No.3815379

>>3815359
You know PAL being 50Hz is literally the reason why it's the biggest joke, right? 56 to 60 fps is NOT nitpicking for shmups/fighters. Also, I'm not bashing the saturn in any way, I love it.

>> No.3815410

>>3814004
you should give it a try. It works wonders and you have full control over it.

>> No.3815426

>>3813496
All consoles are the worst. The Saturn difficult to program because of two processors.
The N64 and PlayStation created because of the failure of the Snes-CD, they were not wanted.
Nintendo had to occupy the ground in front of the 32bits and could not find a good CD player to replace Sony.
The PlayStation, the motherhouse company Sony did not want. It was necessary that Kutaragi develop a prototype in a small local in Sony Music.

>> No.3815443
File: 815 KB, 1479x1042, Sega_Saturn_HST-0020.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3815443

>>3814621
thanks anon that was real neato

>> No.3815481

Do I have to choose? I like both a lot.

>> No.3815576
File: 2.57 MB, 291x426, Ps1_jitter.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3815576

>this is the power of PSX

>> No.3815586

>>3815481
This. Console Wars are for children & poorfags.

>> No.3817169

>>3813496
Kek

>> No.3817818

>>3814540
>that needed fucking Assembly to fully utilize.
And? Only PC-clone game programmers or Unix drones would complain about that.

>> No.3817872

>>3815359
>the whole point of the game is scoring
>scoring is ruined in the ports, along with damage balance and patterns fuck ups
>somehow not a problem
you can't be this retarded

>> No.3817875

>>3815576
dat ass tho

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