Does /vr/ prefer cartridges or discs? I would've rather consoles kept using carts instead of switching to CDs. Load times were a mistake.

File: 41 KB, 640x254, Cart-Vs.-CD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 04:10:16 2017 No.3755184 [Reply] [Original]

Does /vr/ prefer cartridges or discs?

I would've rather consoles kept using carts instead of switching to CDs. Load times were a mistake.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 04:24:52 2017 No.3755194 >>3755184 Cartridges. No loading, they last forever, and enhancement chips. The only thing discs had going for them was storage.

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 05:33:27 2017 No.3755252

>>3755184
I prefer both. Unfortunately developers at the time weren't very creative with how to use them together. I guess it's easy to say in hindsight.
There are a few Saturn games that use a carts to speed up and enhance the game. That works quite well. For the 3 games or whatever that used it. Until your cart slot stops working because it wasn't designed to be used.
The one that really bugs me though is the N64. The flexibility it was designed with is impressive. The only thing more impressive is how it was totally un/misused. The mirrored cart slots approach was simple and functional. Nintendos attempt to use it was a complete failure. The chinks made an awesome device for it but because chinks are thieving cunts and Nintendo are greedy control freaks it was never used for anything except to cut into Nintendo sales.. It had a CD drive, MPEG decoder, up to 32MB of RAM, it's own CPU and a parallel port.
A device like this could have been used to make games 10x larger than ever with broadcast quality FMV cut scenes and CD quality BGM. And god know what else. Don't get me wrong. It was great to be able to play N64 games off CDs in 1996. But what could have been.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 05:35:29 2017 No.3755254 >>3755184 Cartridges, no contest. I'm glad the Switch doesn't use discs. Laser are shit, discs rot. It's all bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 05:49:22 2017 No.3755271 SSD. Hard disks if it has to be a retro medium.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 06:02:05 2017 No.3755280 File: 8 KB, 248x250, 1450267009486.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3755271 This guy gets it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 06:43:44 2017 No.3755305 Ultra 4K Blu-Ray or SSDs via Download.

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 06:54:50 2017 No.3755312
File: 9 KB, 205x249, 1479264659152.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3755252
>A device like this could have been used to make games 10x larger than ever with broadcast quality FMV cut scenes and CD quality BGM. And god know what else. Don't get me wrong. It was great to be able to play N64 games off CDs in 1996. But what could have been.
A device like this would not only have been GOAT but it would have killed Sony and Sega right then and there

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 07:39:12 2017 No.3755340

>>3755184
Personally, I wish there had been more effort to develop something like SD cards sooner. The tech was kind of there with the old SMS and PCE cards, but obviously the storage was extremely limited until well after the turn of the century. And now everything is moving towards download only anyway, so It would seem that ship has sailed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 07:48:40 2017 No.3755349 >>3755312 I don't think you realize how stupid it is because you're dumb enough to think it would work or even matter

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 08:52:21 2017 No.3755378

>>3755194
It's funny how perspective changes things. Back in the day, there was such a tirade against cartridges because they didn't allow for big FMV sequences, but now that we all have some perspective, and are sick and tired of interactive movies, there's a lot more appreciation for cartridges.

I suppose CDs were still cheaper to produce, but... eh.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 08:54:54 2017 No.3755380 >>3755184 Carts nigga

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 09:08:40 2017 No.3755391 In the 90s, discs made more sense. In the modern world, discs are essentially a relic of the past. Even Blu Rays are outdated. They can only hold, what, 50GB? There are micro SD cards with more capacity than that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 09:19:19 2017 No.3755397 >>3755378 To be fair FMV sequences weren't the only thing affected by cart spaces.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 09:23:37 2017 No.3755402 >>3755184 I wanted a computer so bad as a kid, so given the choice between cd based playstation and n64 was a easy decision for young me. Best choice ever.

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 09:27:29 2017 No.3755405

>>3755397
Its like people forgot how n64 games had almost no textures, and terrible music and sound quality, and drove away many third party companies. Cartridges pretty much killed Nintendos home consoles business until the Wii lel

>>3755391
For the price of one 64gb sd card you can get 25 BD-R, though they are 25gb, not 50gb unless you get dual layered. which doubles the price.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 09:34:16 2017 No.3755408 >>3755402 You know N64 was a more powerful computer right >>3755405 Nigga you serious?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 09:38:02 2017 No.3755410 Cartridges are more satisfying to put in the system. CDs I don't have a problem with, but with cartridges, the fun begins before you even turn the game on!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 09:45:58 2017 No.3755417 CD for 3D graphics and multiplayer, carts for everything else.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 10:17:42 2017 No.3755432 Carts are better in a vacuum hands down, but CDs were a requirement to get the experiences we had at the time.

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 10:19:34 2017 No.3755436
File: 1.29 MB, 1000x959, c64-games[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3755184
>>3755194
>>3755254
>>3755380
ITT: Nintendo dies a thousand deaths

Storing software on ROM chips was NEVER good for adult gamers. It was good for children because of durability and instant loading since adults have patience and longer attention spans and it was good for software developers because ROMs were more cost-prohibitive for pirates to duplicate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 10:21:07 2017 No.3755439 >>3755408 Defo serious. It was more poweful but looked worse, than ps1 by far, and couldnt even do 2d well. Cartridges where the bottleneck.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 10:24:51 2017 No.3755445 Tapes, magnet diskettes and old, bulky bootleg chinese cartridges. Cause Im russian

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 10:46:27 2017 No.3755472 >>3755436 Hi Australia-kun.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 10:58:24 2017 No.3755493 >>3755472 Nah. I considered posting the Starpath Supercharger for that reason. Guess I should have.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 14:32:37 2017 No.3755794 >>3755472 Nice strawman. You don't have to be that old fart to realize Nintendo fucked up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 14:36:40 2017 No.3755803 >>3755445 >magnet diskettes They're called floppy disks Ivan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 14:45:58 2017 No.3755819 >>3755436 I actually have less patience to play CD based games so I play cartridge based more often nowadays.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 14:55:23 2017 No.3755831 >>3755184 Cartridges are acceptable now that they have flash saving. But CDs were a wise choice then because PS1 games are playable today without opening them up and replacing batteries.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 14:59:01 2017 No.3755836 Cartridges No loading times, durability, enhancement chips and are just cooler.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 14:59:45 2017 No.3755837 >>3755803 Het https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 18:37:04 2017 No.3756237

>>3755312
Price is the problem. Nintendo went with the DD to keep the price low. I think their target was under $100, which they then fucked up with their bundles. The v64 was $450. They could have cut that massively by going with a cart+CD solution instead of a buttload of RAM. As a $200 addon with Nintendo support it might have done well. But no chance in hell Nintendo was ever going to cooperate with Bung.

>>3755349
I don't think you realize how stupid it is that you don't know the device was actually made. It's called the V64 doctor. The more you know. kek

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 18:44:09 2017 No.3756252

Cartridges are inherently superior for video games. Optical media in general is a mistake. Video games require logic that optical media is too slow to process. In a sense every game made on a disk is shackled in some way. That's why games are more cinematic and there's no Super Mario 64 "2." You can't make a game like Super Mario 64 on a disk. The game would crash instantly unless it's preloaded into the RAM. Remember, this is what the Gamecube ports of Ocarina of Time did, AND NINTENDO STILL HAD TO CUSTOM TAILOR them into Gamecube games. I.e. they were no longer N64 games anymore. Also remember that when you saved you had to wait like 10+ seconds, when the N64 could write instantly.

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 18:58:39 2017 No.3756283

>>3755436

Kids have longer attention spans for repetitive crap, such as grinding in RPGs. Or for things that they are convinced will be awesome. I would wait for games to load, as a kid, that I would never wait for now.

Yeah I could only play for an hour or two as a kid before getting bored, whereas now I can go a full 24 hours if I really want to wreck myself for some reason. But I'm less tolerant of loading time than I ever was then.

Shorter loading times are very good for everybody, of course. Nintendo's trouble was that the people buying most of the games cared more about novelty and spectacle than about anything else, and those things were much easier to reliably provide when storage was very large. For the purpose of holding good games, both discs and cartridges were good and bad, in different ways. For making money, discs were superior.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 19:10:06 2017 No.3756304 File: 48 KB, 512x384, Fantasy-Zone-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3755184 >Does /vr/ prefer cartridges or discs? Cards.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 19:20:57 2017 No.3756324 >>3755254 I have old games and CD's and I don't think I've ever seen disc rot Shit I have a CD from 20 years ago that is so scratched up you can see through it and it still works

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 19:44:08 2017 No.3756354

>>3756252
>Video games require logic that optical media is too slow to process
If you're coding in assembly all you need is a couple megabytes for all general game logic, if you have enough ram all logic should be able to be loaded into ram, the assets like maps, graphics, etc are all that should be needed to be loaded in and out

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 19:53:46 2017 No.3756370

I prefer CDs because I am a higher caste man with patience and gentle hands.

I understand how mobile home park denizens and other r-selected trash prefer cartridges because their apelike minds cannot stand to wait a few loading seconds or to wash and dry the doritos dust from their hands before they handle the disc.

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 20:03:23 2017 No.3756385
File: 88 KB, 436x339, both!!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3755184
Carts AND CDs!

That way, you can use one for the game, one for expansion packs.

Slip an extra CPU in into a cartridge, then reuse it with a CD game!

Or have a game that uses both as standard ... the CD can have copy protection disabled, so you're free to back it up.

Neo geo needed this!

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 22:08:24 2017 No.3756583

>>3755184
Cartridges
No loading times and most games allow you to save your game with out memory cards or built in storage on the console.

Also I didnt have to worry about letting friends borrowing my games without them or their retarded bro/sis fucking up the disc.

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 23:04:41 2017 No.3756684

>>3755184
Cartridges. Nothing can kill those things, right now I'm struggling keep my PS1 intact. Constantly cleaning my games and making sure my laser is fine when on the other hand, my N64 just needs a good dusting every now and then and it plays no problems.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 23:06:26 2017 No.3756686 >>3755436 I'm sure even adults grow impatient.

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 23:11:11 2017 No.3756696

Is really easy for cartridges fags say "cartridges" right now, because they were kids/teenagers in the 90's and didnt had to deal with 60-70 dollars games. At some point you could buy 2 Playstation games for the price of a N64 one. And dont fucking dare tell me that quality has a price, because in the end the only advantage were the load times.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 23:24:00 2017 No.3756726 >>3756696 Yeah but you get way better mileage from n64 games

Anonymous Mon Jan 23 23:30:06 2017 No.3756737

>>3756696
True, but the cost per cart was higher than Nintendo anticipated.
Around the time the N64 launched, the factory that made the ROM chips was damaged by a tsunami.
That drove prices up and they didn't drop back down until after the N64 was over.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 23 23:35:29 2017 No.3756743 >>3755194 >no loading Yeah about that...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 00:07:07 2017 No.3756778 >>3756743 N64 carts had a data transfer rate of 50 MB/s, which is equivalent to a 10x Blu-Ray. A 16x CD-ROM is only a punny 2.4 MB/s A modern cart based on Sata 4 could do 16 GB/s

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 00:26:44 2017 No.3756807 >>3756778 50 MB/s was the maximum transfer rate, but many earlier N64 cartridge ROMs were only 5 MB/s. Compared to 2x CD-ROM that's still fast as fuck, but it's not blazing instantaneous.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 00:39:05 2017 No.3756832 >>3756737 If the Virtual Boy and 32X had taken off, and if the Jaguar actually had a sensible architecture, there would have been reason for an extra ROM chip factory or two.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 01:19:54 2017 No.3756913 >>3755184 Cd's were the superior format at the time but for retro purposes cartridges are better. The N64 will still be working long after the Playstation and other consoles of that era have died due to faulty mechanisms in the cd drives.

Anonymous Tue Jan 24 01:24:08 2017 No.3756918

>>3755184
Honestly? I'd say CDs. They were necessary at a time where games were getting more and more complex in terms of aspects like visuals, overall design, music etc. Yeah things like loading times and durability can be an issue, but personally they were never really a problem; must've been because I mainly grew up playing PC games with the only other thing available for me being an NES (cartridge-based, of course).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 01:42:48 2017 No.3756930 >>3755194 >No loading But anon, that's not true. Cartridges can and have had loading in the past. Stop regurgitating shit you obviously don't know.

Anonymous Tue Jan 24 02:41:51 2017 No.3756997

>>3755184
cartridges hands down, all my games carts still work

CD's and laser disks used to be the shit, when you could spread peanut butter on them and they would still work, now it seems a few seasons with massive changes in humidity and they no longer read

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 02:50:15 2017 No.3757003 I can fix carts I cant fix disc so carts

Anonymous Tue Jan 24 04:07:30 2017 No.3757124

Common CD "pros":

>space
Actual retro game ROM data rarely if ever exceeded 40MB.

>music files
'90s DSPs could produce CD-quality music. See: Saturn and PSX sound chips.

>FMVs
I don't know about you, but frankly I kinda like my games being games, not movies.

>cheaper to mass produce
True, but on the user end, lasers and motors break down faster than cart-based systems. Also, discs are way too fragile.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 04:34:30 2017 No.3757163 Back than, discs. Today, a SSD in one of Amazon's data centres.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 04:51:32 2017 No.3757169 >>3757124 Kys

Anonymous Tue Jan 24 04:54:50 2017 No.3757173

>>3755312
>A device like this would not only have been GOAT but it would have killed Sony and Sega right then and there
It takes more than just good hardware to make sales. The idea could have certainly worked but the wrong execution could have made it a flop too. Just look at how PC Engine CD fared in Japan compared to the United States.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 04:58:46 2017 No.3757178 >>3755436 As an adult with little free time, I appreciate lack of loading times.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 05:19:28 2017 No.3757196 >>3757169 I kiss you too, you handsome stranger <3

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 13:15:16 2017 No.3757904 >>3755184 Carts. Discs scratch

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 13:20:42 2017 No.3757920 >>3755184 Neither. ROMs all the way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 13:22:29 2017 No.3757924 >>3757920 >neither both cd's ans carts contain roms

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 15:19:34 2017 No.3758121 File: 35 KB, 660x439, blow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >cartfags will defend giving your games blowjobs

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 15:27:44 2017 No.3758141 >>3758121 They're a bunch of faggots. What did you expect?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 15:33:11 2017 No.3758143 >>3757178 How autistic are you? I doubt you spend even 15 minutes a day waiting for loading times.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 15:55:33 2017 No.3758185 >>3758121 Q-tip with alcohol is better.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 15:56:35 2017 No.3758190 >>3758143 Why would you deal with loading times when you don't have too?

Anonymous Tue Jan 24 18:04:20 2017 No.3758423

Cartridges are much better than CDs.

No load times.
Able to do more with less RAM because load times are so much faster.
Never have to "install" games.
Saved games go on the cartridge.
Consoles don't need moving parts.
Can be many times larger and/or faster than what was available when the system was released.
Can include co-processors, more RAM, and other chips.
Enables saved games, Flash carts, cheat carts, expansions (like Sonic & Knuckles), and devices (like the Sega 32x and the N64 modem), even when the console hardware wasn't originally designed for any of these things.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 24 18:08:16 2017 No.3758438 >>3755184 Cartridges seem more durable at least on the surface. Not sure if they are for sure or not. I would go with cartridges as long as they would be able to play many years later.

Anonymous Tue Jan 24 18:18:04 2017 No.3758461

>>3758143
15 minutes waiting for loading times would be a crime, but even waiting 2 or 3 minutes is a lot when you come home tired from work and only have about 30 minutes to spend with vidya.

Adulthood sucks, but it makes you realize carts made much more sense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 25 03:13:13 2017 No.3759312 >>3758461 It's a zero sum game sport. You can smoke all the weed you want as a kid but you're gonna end up with a shit job and shit life later on. Hope you enjoyed it.

Anonymous Wed Jan 25 03:37:41 2017 No.3759331

>>3758423
They only enable save games and the like if the manufacturer adds battery backed RAM or other non-ROM storage, which effectively means you're paying again and again for the same hardware. There are cartridge based systems with memory cards like the Neo Geo or N64.

I don't see what's wrong with installing. It's a one time thing and you no longer have to deal with switching disks or long loading times.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 25 09:44:04 2017 No.3759618 >>3755410 Autism

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 25 11:36:10 2017 No.3759747 >>3757169 Endless kys

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 25 12:49:55 2017 No.3759873 >>3759312 My job isn't bad, but I have more things to do when I come home, I have a family, have things to take care of in the house, etc. Anyway, point is, carts are better.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 25 18:13:35 2017 No.3760465 >>3759873 >bad job >does wifes housework >life is good and my opinion is worth anything lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 25 20:35:30 2017 No.3760694 >>3760465 You sure like putting words in other people's mouths, anon. Just admit carts are better and be done with your silly ad-hominem.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 25 23:18:51 2017 No.3760890 >>3760694 >i sure like like putting other cocks in my mouth, anon >that's why it's called being a cuck, anon

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 26 09:24:40 2017 No.3761452 >>3760694 >2+2=5 No it's four >You sure like putting words in other people's mouths kek

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 26 10:54:41 2017 No.3761542 >>3760694 I'm willing to concede carts are better for people who can only get 30 minutes or less to enjoy their hobby. Thankfully I'm not one of those people.

Anonymous Thu Jan 26 21:19:50 2017 No.3762434

>>3761542
b-b-but this board is full of highly paid people who have oodles of free time in between mcjobs and are gonna 3D print a mame cab.
y-y-you sound like a normie who should fuck off to a board I'm afraid to go to because haxors might hax my moms iphone.

Yeah. This is /neov/ Total shit init

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 26 21:21:59 2017 No.3762436 How can someone prefer a digital disc over actually owning a hard PCB with the ROM on an actual chip?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 27 09:31:48 2017 No.3763181 >>3762436 Maybe they're super autistic about how bits are stored.

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/vr/ - Retro Games