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3745506 No.3745506 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

When and where did it go wrong? I'm talking both the games and the fandom.

This is more of a general vidya question, but I avoid /v/ like the plague and since Sonic dates back to the Genesis, I figured I'd ask the question here.

>> No.3745507

It didn't go wrong, for it was never right. Sonic has always been garbage.

>> No.3745513

Tried to play the first game
When game goes fast it is too easy, it's literally just hold right to win.
When game actually slows down and makes you do some platforming it feels like shit.

Are the other games like this?

>> No.3745514

Sonic 3D blast marked the end of fast platforming and the beginning of collecting and mission based game play.

>> No.3745515

Yes, they are all subpar platformers

>> No.3745517

Bubsy, but inversed. 1-hit deaths makes it too risky to ever run fast, but when you slow yourself down and glide around and what-not it's a pretty neat game.

>> No.3745523

It seems like sonic has has been primarily a racing game riffing on the endless runner genre and games like cannabalt

>> No.3745529 [DELETED] 

Didn't those games predate Sanic though?

>> No.3745531

Quality thread here

Anyway, it started with 3D Blast and no Saturn rep

>> No.3745532

/vr/ is rational about everything except Sonic.

This is the one area they still act like /v/ about. It's pathetic.

>> No.3745534

Here's a dirty little secret, Sanic has always been a shit series that made itself on clever marketing.

>> No.3745541

I don't get why.
Sonic is a polarizing game, this is fact.
But it's just because of nintendrones and/or plebs?

>> No.3745689

I'd say it's a mix of Nintendrones and Sonic's notoriously shitty fanbase.

>> No.3745759
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>The state of this thread already

Try again on a better board OP.

>> No.3745771

>le original thread

>> No.3745794

I'm a good Sonic fan. You can trust me to be a civil and composed person when it comes to discussing Sonic.

>> No.3745802

Some of the biggest faggots that post here judge things by their fanbases not by the actual quality of the games.

The Nintendrones are the absolute fucking worst though.

>> No.3745803

You have to be pretty cucked to re hash an early 90s marketing war without getting paid to do so.

>> No.3745807

sonic adventure is a piece of fucking shit

>> No.3745812

The games were fine until 2006. They got back on track with gameplay with Generations, but I haven't cared about the series ever since the happy tree friends guy started writing Mario tier stories.

As for the fandom, they can't be blamed, you have to expect a billion fractures in the fandom when the franchise goes in like a million different directions and has several vastly different spinoffs, there's bound to be a divide for every last one of those.

But you're probably referring to the porn and the OCs huh?

>> No.3745815
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>> No.3745816
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>lel cuck xD

From the sounds of it you weren't even born during said marketing war, I certainly don't expect you to understand it.

>> No.3745817


You mean recolors? You're not quite touching on the severity of the faggotry involved with these people.

>> No.3745826

I was around for it in fact. If 20 years after the fact you feel the need to fight a major corporation's battles for them on the internet you are beyond pathetic. Anyone who is truly /vr/ minded owns both 16 bit consoles and will be able to tell you they truly were the greatest of all time. I didn't give a shit about Nintendo in the 90s, why would anyone if they had the chance to experience the absolute dream that was Sega Channel? But later in my life I developed an appreciation for JRPGs so I now also own a Super Famicom.

/vr/ doesn't need you to shill for Nintendo like a faggot /g/ Apple poster. We know Nintendo was (KEY FUCKING WORD) great, Sega was too. I have more respect for Sega because they went out fighting and tried to innovate instead of just coasting off gimmicks. Either way what I said still rings true, fighting a 20+ year old marketing battle for a major corporation that has long since given up and moved on to making children's toys is pointless.

>> No.3745828


The fanbase being a goddamn mess dates back even further than that, the cartoons of the early to mid 90s (in particular SatAM) and the related comics got the ball rolling in the angsty, edgy direction. Being completely unrelated to the main games, many ignored them, but it meant even before Adventure there was a sizable margin of people who expected the games to move in a 'mature' direction. It was inevitable from the start things would turn out how they did.

>> No.3745897

they fucked the poor hedgehog up with sonic 2.

>> No.3745945
File: 65 KB, 643x1024, Nam Soldier.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Now I want to run a tabletop RPG where the PC's are Sonic recolors fighting in the Vietnam War

>promptly fucks off to /tg/

>> No.3745956

Not OP but whatever. The controls and camera can get quite horrid in Sonic Adventure and some of those bosses made me almost break my keyboard (SA:DX player here, Dreamcast emulation was shit on my shitty old computer years ago). However, for its time, the graphics were amazing, the whole game felt like an actual adventure, with level hubs, story, objectives and cutscenes. The game didn't definitely age well (and honestly, I'm too scared to pick it up again) but it's not a total piece of shit.

>> No.3745957

This, Sonic has horrible control because he has to build up momentum to go fast but when you go fast HERP DERP HERE'S A SPRING THAT PUSHES YOU BACK AND A BUNCH OF SPIKES TOO so in the more complex levels you almost never go fast for more

The physics of sonic make him a horrible character to actually do any platforming with

>> No.3745962

Arent you doing the same right now?

>> No.3745965

Not really. I have a high opinion of some Nintendo products. I would have a Super Famicom controller in my hand right now if I didn't pause to reply to you.

>> No.3745979

Games, I dunno.

Fandom, I'd say around Adventure. That's basically when they tried to make him "cool" and edgy (in the original sense of the word), which eventually gave rise to the fandom as we know it today.

Basically, I can only claim my own experience here, but most kids of the type that would eventually make Sonic OCs and whatnot come from strict households with non-permissive parents--you know the type. Because of this, the kids would be kind of feeble and nerdy compared to some others, so they'd be targets of bullying, hence they'd seek refuge in "cool" angsty media. Those who were allowed tended to gravitate more towards stuff like Final Fantasy and would idolize Cloud and Sephiroth, but the sheltered kids wouldn't be allowed. Sonic, then, was still a family-friendly cartoon animal, so kids would make do with him, then.

Once Shadow rolled in, things were amped up tenfold. Not only was there now a hilariously grimdark character in the mix as well, but his design was essentially just Sonic with a different color scheme, an accessory or two, and an edgy personality/backstory; in other words, this was all it took to make a new Sonic character, so kids just seemed to think that they could do it too. Being a popular franchise beforehand, it was easy for this bizarre scene to wind up proliferating.

That's what really sparked it I would say, but I guess the writing was on the wall as >>3745828 said.

Fuck me I've spent way too much time thinking about this.

>> No.3745985

It started at 3D BLAST.
Sonic R was a bad game.
Adventure wasn't bad, but the fact that there is no Action Stage only ruined it.

>> No.3746001

The physics are the whole appeal to the games tho

>> No.3746030

SEGA sadly was too far ahead of its time in everything they made. Much better graphics and backlight on the Gamegear, internet connection on Dreamcast its incredible they failed.

Then a fucking box the size of a containter ship puts internet on it and everyone loses their minds because of FPS online on a console... I do wonder what we would have now if SEGA beat Nintendo and Nintendo became a developer for SEGA.

>> No.3746071

I for one think that the franchise would have been better If the games had either Tails or Knuckles as protag, and that the games also involve their way of platforming

>> No.3746080

The reception to 3D Blast and R versus the reception to the adventure series.
3D Blast and R weren't perfect by any means, but they were legitimate baby steps into translating classic mechanics into 3D.
Adventure looks a lot better, but completely abandoned classic physics based gameplay and has little substance or depth. Instead it just uses flashy scripted running segments.

>> No.3746154


>> No.3746229


3D blast was an interesting experiment but it wasn't actually a mainline Sonic game, it was pure filler by Traveler's Tales so Sonic Team could work of Knuckles Chaotix and STI could work on Sonic X-Treme. Sonic R was a car racing game TT was putting together on the side that they quickly slapped Sonic into after it became apparent there would be no Saturn Sonic. Same reason there was a 3D Blast Port. The Saturn lineup was such a disaster the Adventure games could've been literal 10/10s and SEGA would still have been fucked, they'd lost a lot of trust.

>> No.3746250

>that's basically when they tried to make him "cool" and edgy
Because he wasn't supposed to be cool and edgy before that? I guess his entire advertisement campaign, in-game sprites, official artwork, and all other official references to his personality never actually happened. You learn something new every day.

>> No.3746290


Shadow wasn't edgy in SA2.

>> No.3746292


>Sonic R was a bad game

>> No.3746340
File: 376 KB, 495x461, Woody_laughing.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Shadow wasn't edgy in SA2
>"I'm the coolest!"
>" Maria. I still remember what I promised you. For the people of this planet I promise you... REVENGE."
>"Is that so? Well, in that case... it will be a date to DIE for."

>> No.3746592
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>> No.3746648

Nothing went wrong. Sonic 2006 is the only game in the main series that's outright bad. The remaining modern Sonic games range from decent to great.

Bitching about the Sonic series is the most tired shit ever, yet "gamur culture" can't get enough of it. Even if you hate every game after Sonic & Knuckles, stop shitting your pants about how Sonic is "ruined" or "needs to die" and just play the good games.

>> No.3746682

>1-hit deaths makes it pretty risky
those are easily dogdeable by jumping while running.
>that satisfying high velocity glide
Never understood the bubsy hate most people have.

>> No.3746714

The Bubsy series got increasingly bad with each new game.

>> No.3746742

I used to care about the games but now all I care about is the bat tits.

>> No.3746754

Yes the last game was an abomination, but the first two were pretty similar and fun i think.

>> No.3746764

Yeah Rouge she sexy and smooth

>> No.3746768

A double cross spy thief that's out for my jewels

>> No.3746769

I blame Sonic X. It all seemed to go wrong around the time it aired.

>> No.3746776

He was supposed to be hip, but not edgy.

>> No.3746778

Part of be believes that they would actually pusblish this.

>> No.3747264


You're not exactly meant to go fast. The whole "go fast" thing was just a marketing gimmick.

You're supposed to be playing a spiny rodent that can roll in a ball and the physics of the game are all about that.

And Sonic has its roots in arcade style, time trial gameplay. You play the game and get good enough and your reward is being able to go fast and choose the best route through the levels.

>> No.3747298

Sonic itself was just a marketing gimmick.

>> No.3747429

Just like any other platforming mascot?

>> No.3747468

>When and where did it go wrong?

When it went 3D.

>> No.3748417

>game was specifically designed to allow you to move at exhilerating speeds
>you're not exactly meant to go fast

>> No.3748512

It went wrong in 2006.

Look at the releases on Metacritic. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 reviewed well on the Dreamcast.

They both reviewed worse when ported over to the Gamecube because, during 2001, gaming was still a technology race and if your game felt old it would get a bad review.

A 1998 platformer released in 2001 was always going to get bad reviews. Look at some of the BRUTAL reviews Donkey Kong Country received when it was ported over to the GBA. It was a faithful port but reviewers couldn't appreciate old games.

Sonic Heroes got meh reviews but no one was sperging over the franchise being dead like they do now.

All the GBA Sonics had a good reception.

Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 is where things changed. It was a broken game and digital fraud. The narrative stuck after that and it wasn't helped that furries and all that shit was becoming well known around the same time.

Now when a Sonic game comes out, reviewers don't hold back. It's uncool to give a Sonic game praise. I've read reviews that claim Sonic Colors and Generations were Mario Galaxy rip offs. Just insane unfair garbage.

When fans complain over the direction the series like they did with Sonic 4, those same reviewers see it as an opportunity to write articles about how the fans are too attached and need to move on.

This contradiction (hating new Sonic games but disagreeing with fans who don't like a Sonic game) was the first sign to me that the narrative was bullshit. Journos want to shit on this one series from all angles.

And now, there are 2 insane ideas out there:
1) Sonic was never good. Total bullshit hyperbole.
2) Sonic CD was the only good Sonic game. This one is just stupid. Everyone is saying this because many people played Sonic CD for the first time with the Christian Whitehead port.

CD wasn't even the best Sonic - it featured a very convoluted and confused level design. You're going to hear these same complaints when Mania comes out, trust me.


>> No.3748521


And finally, I just want to add, what happened to Sonic could happen to a franchise you like as well.

At the same time Sonic Heroes came out, there were a bunch of Crash Bandicoot games that reviewed poorly.

People really want a new Crash but all it takes is one botched title, one YouTube contrarian and some lukewarm releases in the past for people to start claiming...


Don't let people forget.


>> No.3748538


Modern gaming reviews are cult of personality the emperor's new clothes bullshit

They won't even try to fairly rate anything to do with Sonic anymore, even Yuji Naka's new game Rodea The Sky Soldier bombed when it was a pretty good game, if Nintendo had made it it would have got 8/10's and higher.

For another example take a look at how they rate Earth Defense Force, fucking great games, can easily get 100+ hours out of the single player alone, tons of replayability, great concept, and the nu-gamer reviewers shit all over it because it's actually focused on fun gameplay instead of muh cinematic grimdark Cawadooty shit

Nu-male reviewers were a fucking mistake

>> No.3748759


>You're going to hear these same complaints when Mania comes out, trust me.

I was on-board till you said this. Christian Whitehead only ported Sonic CD, he wasn't involved in aspect of the game's design so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea Mania will have similarly designed levels. Aesthetically the game looks similar but from the clips released the levels seem very straightforward, more like Sonic 3.

I mean, people will bitch, yeah. But that's a given with any Sonic release.

>> No.3749006

Literally nothing has gone wrong with Sonic.

He gets a shit game here and there, so what? Are you going to say the whole of Metroid has gone to shit because a couple of the recent games are awful?

Anything on the Genesis is great, Adventure 1 and 2 are great, the Advance games are great.

Heroes is kind of ok, I'll accept it as a bad one if you really want to, shadow the hedgehog is bad, (somewhere around here the PSP games came out but idk about those) 06 is terrible because it's unfinished.

Then after that you have Unleashed, Rush, Colours, Generations and Lost World none of which is a bad game. Sonic 4 is kind of off but it isn't terrible, Sonic 4-2 is actually pretty fun.
Then you have Boom which is an unholy abomination.

And now you have Mania which looks good and another game that we don't know anything about.

Can we stop with this "Sonic is shit" meme? The fanbase is terrible, whatever, but SEGA or whoever has managed to keep the franchise relatively in check despite all the shortcomings.

>> No.3749025

Agree about EDF, and I don't wanna play the devils advocate, but the issue with Rodea might have been that reviewers played the Wii U or 3DS versions which are pretty bad.

I sincerly doubt any normie reviewer from IGN or whatever even bothered to look at the Wii version which is the best one, and I can't necesarily blame them, tho a professional should do fucking research before publishing a review.

>> No.3749060

Not to mention that Boom, as shit as it is, wasn't even developed by Sonic Team. So it's not like the team that made Generations just shit the bed and released Boom.

>> No.3749082


>game was specifically designed to allow you to move at exhilerating speeds

That's what I'm saying, it wasn't. That was how they marketed it because they needed people believe their console was the biggest, baddest thing on the shelves.

>> No.3749090

>Aesthetically the game looks similar but from the clips released the levels seem very straightforward, more like Sonic 3.

You could say Sonic CD, 3 and Knuckles have less linearity to their level design where there's not a clear sense of what direction to take.

CD is the more extreme version because you're looking for specific items.

My point is people will use a criticism that could be leveled at Sonic CD to dismiss Mania while ALSO saying 'Sonic CD is the only good Sonic game'.

It's the contradiction I can't stand.

>> No.3749142

Yes, and top it all off, it was technically a spin-off shovelware made to promote the TV show.

>> No.3749339

>I don't wanna play the devils advocate, but the issue with Rodea might have been that reviewers played the Wii U or 3DS versions which are pretty bad.
I actually got the 3DS version. Don't own a Wii or Wii U sadly. I'm sure the Wii version is much better, I know the 3DS is just a downgraded port of the Wii U version but even the 3DS version is a solid 7/10, unless it somehow suddenly drops in quality past where I've made it to. The only issues with the game is the camera being a bit unwieldly and the framerate. The game itself is really great; interesting story, well designed characters, the music is really nice and the world is well built, and the gameplay is really solid. I think if Nintendo made it people would be sucking it's dick to this day still, instead of the complete lack of discussion online as it stands now. I'm sure it will be considered an overlooked gem in the future.

>> No.3750191


Please don't use these terms ever again

>> No.3750194
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>> No.3750218


It's not really some bogeyman though, it's absolutely a thing. It's a byproduct of nerd culture being 'cool' now, you see so many guys with shitty beards and oversized glasses who sort of stand in that middle zone between nerdy and issue-conscious, I guess as its their best impression of normal people. Subsequently it became obvious some time ago that video game journalism has almost no other kind of male.

>> No.3750248

fun fact: /vr/ has been colonized by /v/ for a long while.

>>3750218 is pretty much evidence.

>> No.3750272 [DELETED] 

It was never good. It's made by a shit tier company, for a shit tier console, for literal autusts.

Hth, OP.

>>inb4 m-m-muh Sanic! Blast processing!

>> No.3750282 [DELETED] 

Being this cucked by a shit-tier series made for autists
>>inbb4 "M-m-muh Sanic is the pinnacle of video games!"

>> No.3750445 [DELETED] 

Nah >>3750218 and >>3748538 are right, you're probably some ass shattered numale bandwagon hopper upset you got called out

>> No.3750665
File: 734 KB, 960x720, its high kek.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>uses the term nu-male
>accuses anyone of bandwagoning

you're a fucking retard

>> No.3750801

>Fandom, I'd say around Adventure.
Wasn't there a proto-autism ball floating around the 90s internet thanks to SatAm?

I've vague memories of reading about it, after the fact, like the North German Confederation to the German Empire, brief and ignored between the more famous periods of "No autism" and "Autistic radiation: Wear lead pants."

>> No.3750863
File: 475 KB, 500x456, Ken Penders Echidnas.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Wasn't there a proto-autism ball floating around the 90s internet thanks to SatAm?
And the comics. Don't forget the Fleetway and Archie comics too.

>> No.3750926

>Don't use to convey a message

>> No.3750967


There definitely was, if you look at old posts on the alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog newsgroup people talk about SatAm and the archie comics like an integral part of Sonic, in fact before Sonic Adventure released they talked about fucking nothing else.

While I was refreshing my memory I found a few amusing gems:

Dudes speculating over a grainy picture of Shadow (2000): https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog/KSjngu2MyLU

'Why isn't Amy naked?' and other pressing questions (2000): https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog/81SnvbkFVg0

A 'Sonic has always sucked' thread (2000) - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog/-6tIAaelfUo

Reacting to Sonic's design changes (1998) - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog/tV0V5qzvJdA/wIcV6s4pixYJ

Reacting to a Sonic Adventure plot synopsis, where everybody realizes Mobius was never canon (1998) - https://groups.google.com/d/topic/alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog/rAH6rehmKYk/discussion

"What the hell is up with all the Sonic porn?" asks this dude from 1998 - https://groups.google.com/d/topic/alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog/xGL1z6h7tIk/discussion

It's easy to notice almost everything pre-Adventure is comics, TV or porn, games-wise it was considered almost a dead franchise and you can find many wars on whether was is or wasn't. The last post should make it pretty clear the fanbase was in trouble long before Adventure though.

>> No.3750973

>The last post should make it pretty clear the fanbase was in trouble long before Adventure though.

Notice how this thinking is literally only applied to anything with anthropomorphic characters and NEVER to anything with anime waifus and monster girls.

>> No.3750989


Well they are two different audiences so I'm not really sure what your point is, but I really don't give a fuck what is or isn't sexual or what you or anyone else fap to. I just wanted to dispute this popular idea that, getting back to the OP, the fanbase 'went wrong' with the 3D games. It was an autistic, perverted mess far prior to that.

>> No.3751008

Heroes was only shit on the PS2.

>> No.3751067

Those are all from the Saturn era, remember there was this huge gap from early 90s to early 2000s where we had no main Sonic games come out.

For a franchise like this, it'd be easy to think the series was dying.

>> No.3751069

I like it but a lot of people don't, and I can't deny it's kind of glitchy and that the whole rail thing is a bit of a pain in the butt.

I decided to count it as a bad one to not make it seem like I was pulling at straws.

>> No.3751096

06 and Rise of Lyric are the only horrendous games. The others are flawed, but I find them playable if you go into them with the right mindset. There are even some really great spin-offs like Tails Adventure on the game gear which people just assume is shit because its a game gear game. The fandom has been bad since the 90s, and got worse in the early 2000s when more people had internet. In my opinion though its calmed down a bit, and there are now plenty others just as bad as it.

>> No.3751135 [DELETED] 
File: 68 KB, 700x700, 57117b4f4b559.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>gets so ass shattered he has to cry to the mods

You really are a numale

>> No.3751838


It was really quite a desperate time looking back, the newsgroup posts of the mid 90s are just people talking about the comics (which they openly hate due to Ken Penders) and how much they dislike Sonic Jam/R/3D Blast/Chaotix and just want a proper game. If you ever wonder how the Sonic fanbase became this cult of fanfics, 'Original Characters', remixes and fangames it's because they were bored out of their fucking minds.

>> No.3751905 [DELETED] 

shit tier series by a shit tier company, that came out on shit tier console that were always the weakest of their generation.
>>b-b-but muh Sanic! Gotta go fast! My autism won't allow me to play good games! Gotta go fast with Sanic!

>> No.3751942 [DELETED] 

shave and get contacts bro

>> No.3751954 [DELETED] 

Get triggered more you nu-male cuck, people will use whatever words they goddamn want and the only people who really get offended are the people who it applies to.

>> No.3751961 [DELETED] 

Get triggered more you nu-male cuck, people will use whatever words they goddamn want and the only people who really get offended are the people who it applies to.

>> No.3752004

lol more and more evidence it's cool to hate sonic just keeps revealing itself

The original games aren't as tightly focused and seamless as mario but they're still flagship platformers and better than any of the smaller titles from that era.

The only real, coherent criticism the anti-sonic people seem to be able to put together is that you move too fast for areas where there's danger, and the game controls shittly at the low speed they're forced to move to not die.

The way rings work makes getting hit once not that big a deal, but even still if you're good at the game you can run full speed through most of it and be fine. Games back then were designed to be played for hundreds of hours cause that's exactly what a large portion of the audience was going to do. Consider the insane difficulty of the special stages, which you are required to complete to get the good ending. If you're at the point where you're doing an emerald run you have most of the levels memorized anyway and you're trying to blow through them without slowing down which is challenging and fun. The skill ceiling is higher with sonic than most platformers.

don't ask me to defend the 3D ones now though

>> No.3752009

>responding to redditors

>> No.3752236

>If you ever wonder how the Sonic fanbase became this cult of fanfics, 'Original Characters', remixes and fangames it's because they were bored out of their fucking minds.
that.... actually makes a lot of sense

>> No.3752439

Personally, I mark Sonic Adventure 2 as the point where the series made a definitive turn towards shit. It took all the mistakes of the previous game and amplified them. That's not to say there weren't bad games before, or good games that came after.

Unfortunately, SA2 was babby's first Sonic for a lot of people, and it has a loyal following of fucking lunatics who think the music and "deep" plot somehow mitigate the abysmal gameplay.

>> No.3753313

What about him?

>> No.3754293


Sounds like you sucked ass at Sonic. I loved just holding right (or down and right) in Chemical Plant Zone.

>> No.3754308


As someone who grew up playing Genesis and eagerly awaited the Dreamcast's release, fuck you. Sonic Adventure was great. SA2 was even better with Sonic's stages, and also storywise towards the end.

>> No.3754331

I believe Sonic's downfall was caused by the very reason he was created, competition. Back in the day a faster, cooler, character with personality may have outsold Mario in popularity at the time, but fad is one letter short of fade and Sega's devs had a harder time keeping up to the challenge that was competing against Mario as time went on. I mean for the most part if you notice, Sonic games have and are sold with selling points that Mario lacks.

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