/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3739602]

Games that ruined their respective franchises. I'll start.

>now every game is a clone of Super Metroid
>now every protagonist will be effeminate
>now every game will have RPG elements
>now every game will me about 5 hours too long

[Anonymous No.3739609]

>>3739602
Agree, it wouldn't be so bad if classicvania games were released alongside the Metroidvania ones.

[Anonymous No.3739621]

>>3739602
>now we probably will never see another Castlevania game anyway

Feels bad man. I don't really hate the metroidvanias as much as others do, some of the DS metroidvanias are among my favorite games in the series. I think the newer 3D Castlevanias were considerably worse for the franchise as a whole.

It would have been nice if they had released more classicvanias after SOTN but in all honesty they probably wouldn't have sold very well. SOTN set a new precedent for how the series would go because it sold gangbusters.

[Anonymous No.3739627]

>>3739602
good thing it's dead huh?

[Anonymous No.3739632]

I have no issues with the Metroidvania style. SotN is one of my favorite games of all time... in fact, it was the reason i got a PSX. And as mentioned, the GBA and DS games are all amazing.

That aside, I did greatly enjoy the classic 2D platforming as well. Dracula's Curse and Super IV are both top notch games.

Castlevania is a series in desperate need of a relook by Konami. Lords of Shadow 1 was descent, but I havent even tried the 3DS or #2 since it got destroyed in the ratings.

I would love to see Konami do what Capcom did with Megaman 9 and 10 and return to a retro visual style with a few new games, but if we ever get any good Metroidvania style games, Id be down for that as well.

Untill then, Ill enjoy CV games on my NES Classic and the soon-to-come SNES Classic :)

[Anonymous No.3739640]

Pandora's Box: The Game.

[Anonymous No.3739671]

>>3739632

Unfortunately it doesn't look like Konami is ever going to make games again. The best we'll ever get is CV pachinko or a shitty mobile reboot.

[Anonymous No.3739685]

>>3739632
>Castlevania is a series in desperate need of a relook by Konami.

The Japanese game industry is in shambles, with exception of the really heavy hitters like Nintendo and Sega, Japanese companies are just shells of their former selves, making rehashes of their old games or whoring out their IPs to Pachinko parlors.

Really sad.

[Anonymous No.3739687]

>>3739602
Watch out OP, you'll unleash a wild drove of Igababbies with your unpopular opinion.

Expect lots of
>hurrr classicvania was shit anyway
>hurrr you just have shit taste op
>hurrr only trolls hate muh sotin

[Anonymous No.3739691]

>>3739640
But there were lots of shitty 3D platformers before this game. Or are you blaming sa1 for running Sonic, because if you are you would be wrong. Sonic 3d blast and the Saturn sonics signaled the end of the hog.spironolactone

[Shitposting Tourneyfag No.3739723]

>Esper system vastly increases character interchangeability, paves way for materia
>Instantiation of anachronistic techno-dystopia, FF setting never changes again
>Maudlin, depressing, character permadeath
>Kefka paves way for lolsorandom edgelords everywhere

It's a fantastic game but basically everything about the franchise that has been done to death originates with this iteration. Everything people hate about 7 is almost guaranteed to first appear in 6. Kefka is at least a much better villain than Seph, and the story is less confusing.

[Anonymous No.3739729]

>>3739602

[Anonymous No.3739735]

Because each game was exponentially worse than the last, and the long downward slide started here.

[Anonymous No.3739738]

>>3739735
X4 and X1 are the best games in the series, though.

[Anonymous No.3739740]

>>3739691
When I say "Pandora's Box", I mean Sonic's Pandora's Box.

SA1 was the beginning of the "Edgy Sanic" era and opened doors to shitty games like Sonic 06, Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Heroes. 3D Blast and Sonic R weren't A+ titles but they didn't bring bad concepts that hurt the franchise.

[Anonymous No.3739747]

The game I would say isn't /vr/ but it's Twilight Princess.

I mean I guess it's technically Wind Waker but the graphics are nice and it's the only competent story in the series, so I give it a pass.

[Anonymous No.3739750]

>>3739602
Funny, because i can only enjoy metroidvanias. But well, i don't like hard games and i like rpgs.

[Anonymous No.3739751]

>>3739738
X4 is crap, but my point exactly with X1.

[Anonymous No.3739752]

>>3739602
They should have really divided Castlevania into 2 separate franchises like Capcom did with Mega Man X and "classic" Mega Man.

I personally like Kojima's drawings and the overall style of Castlevania was still very cohesive with her designs. But ultimately, Konami ran the franchise into the ground in Japan by Dawn of Sorrow, unlike in US where it still sells. So I don't know why they tried to push the bishonen anime characters and appeal to Japan so much.

>>3739685
This

[Anonymous No.3739753]

>>3739602

Oh fug off

[Anonymous No.3739757]

>>3739751
>X4 is crap
Some levels are, but the gameplay, grafics and music make up for it.

[Anonymous No.3739758]

>>3739723
>FF setting never changes again
bruh, X would like a word

[Anonymous No.3739760]

>>3739751
X4 is great, not as good as X1 but still a ton of fun

[Anonymous No.3739770]

>>3739632
>the soon-to-come SNES Classic :)

>implying Nintendo cares enough about the era between NES and Wii to make such a device

We'll see an NES Classic 2.0 before we see them market SNES games again.

Like, when's the last time you saw a 16 bit Nintendo character on any merchandise?

[Anonymous No.3739775]

>>3739770
Every single virtual console game released on the 3DS eshop the past few months has been a Super NES game.

[Anonymous No.3739790]

>>3739723

So one of the best games ruined the series because other games tried to copy it? It just sounds to me like you are just trying too hard to have an opinion when you don't really have one.

[Anonymous No.3739791]

>>3739602
Now every games has a nonsensical story
Now all the characters are 1 dimensional androgynous teenagers
Now all the talent at the studio is on their way out to make their own companies or join other ones.

[Anonymous No.3739825]

>>3739791
Japs loved it more than FFVII and IX. That's the answer to your question

[Anonymous No.3739837]

>>3739791
>>3739825
That said, note how the protagonist of XIII was more or less a female Cloud.

VII also struck the whole series hard, with Square-Enix wanting to copy a ton from both and Kingdom Hearts.

[Anonymous No.3739847]

>>3739740
>SA1 was the beginning of the "Edgy Sanic" era
But Colors, Unleashed, and Generations were fairly lighthearted in terms of tone though.

[Anonymous No.3739869]

>>3739847
The era is over, nowadays Sega realizes what Nintendo did with Mario and how it works, so they just go full nostalgia.

One could argue the damage is still very much there though, because a lot are still looking for Shadow.

[Anonymous No.3739876]

>started the tradition of excluding features in the next games
>started the legendary pokémon inclusion on the campaign and you have to save the world plot
>made impossible to catch them all

[Anonymous No.3739890]

>>3739740
Sonic was always supposed to be edgy. It was part of the appeal over a boring Italian plumber. Originally he had huge fangs and a girlfriend with huge tits too.

[Anonymous No.3739939]

didn't just ruin it, it fucking ended it

what a pile of steaming shit

[Anonymous No.3739947]

>>3739602
They can only do so much with platformers. I played Rebirth for the first time the other day and the whole time I felt that I knew everything about it already. They were never going to top CV3/Rondo. The only thing they could have done is new levels, and whether they were better or worse would be completely subjective. Turning Castlevania into a game where you can actually explore every corner of the eponymous castle freely was the best direction they could have possible taken the series.

Also
>now
Try 10 years ago. "now" every game is a clone of God of War. And that's only if they ever make more.

[Anonymous No.3739953]

You forgot
>spawned the whole Metroidvania "genre" and gave birth to countless indie pixel shit clones

>>3739632
>Lords of Shadow 1 was descent
I thought Descent was another game.

> would love to see Konami do what Capcom did with Megaman 9 and 10 and return to a retro visual style with a few new games,
No, FUCK YOU! Another pixel Castlevania game? We have thousands thanks to the fuckin indie developers.
I'm tired of Castlevania, "Metroidvania" and all the clones and I'm tired of NES graphics.

Thank God Castlevania is dead.

[Anonymous No.3739981]

>>3739890
>rad is now "edgy"
I want Reddit to leave.

[Anonymous No.3739997]

>>3739947
>>3739947
>They can only do so much with platformers

Bullshit, they just aren't trying.

Have you even seen what they've done in the latest Donkey Kong Country games or the Mario Galaxy games?

Platformers can still innovate.

[Anonymous No.3740007]

>>3739997
I meant Castlevania.
Castlevania platformers need whipping action, stiff controls, the usual subweapons, the usual enemies/bosses, the usual themes, or people will complain.
If they tried to "innovate" in any way, people would bitch the same way they bitched about SotN. Hell, even at the same time they did try 3D platformers with the 64 entries, and it's a good thing the franchise didn't continue in that direction.

[Anonymous No.3740012]

There wasn't a franchise to ruin because Castlevania was dead and on it's way out before SoTN was released. The 3D games on the n64 were awful. I applaud the heads at Konami for green lighting a 2D game on a home console in the midst of the 3D hype age. It could have horribly failed but instead we got a great game with a lot of replay value, not to mention the other metroidvanias after that. I seriously don't get the hate some retro elitists have for metroidvanias.

[Anonymous No.3740124]

>>3739602

The first Castlevania on the msx was a metroidvania.

[Anonymous No.3740139]

>>3740124
No it wasn't. You couldn't explore previous areas after clearing a level.

[Anonymous No.3740375]

>>3739939
On that note, pic related.

>>3739876
>made impossible to catch them all
No no, the later installments fixed that. Plus Mew.

>feature removal
We had day/night via clock, it just wasn't ever visual. Why the fuck do you think emulators need an RTC? It's almost all Pokemon.

Now, Black and White however...
>Started making legendary battles formalities
>Started handholding in a big way
>Started the illegitimate Pokemon bans
>Started certain nerfs to popular moves
>Started making the plot stretched out
>Was dubbed a "reboot."

[Anonymous No.3740378]

>>3740375
*earlier installments

[Anonymous No.3741375]

>>3739602
Castlevania was already losing popularity and that game re-invigorated the audience. Remember that Chronicles never sold nearly as well. It's not that the Iga style games made it so traditional Castlevania weren't going to be made anymore. They were going to die out either way. Metroidvania just kept the name of the series going for a while longer.

It was a continual spiral though and ended up with the last 2D Castlevania being so laughable easy that it barely qualifies as a game let alone an action-platformer.

[Anonymous No.3741402]

>>3740012
>The 3D games on the n64 were awful.
I personally found them (well, at least just LoD) much better experiences than SoTN. Different strokes.

[Anonymous No.3741602]

>>3739602

>>now every game is a clone of Super Metroid
I fucking wish

The RPG elements of metroidvania are shit.

[Anonymous No.3742964]

>>3739770
Star Fox has some Merch that does ok.

[Anonymous No.3742974]

>>3739775
Because they already blew their NES load.
We only got SNES on 3DS E-shop in the middle of last year.

[Anonymous No.3743006]

>>3739685
>with exception of the really heavy hitters... like Sega
LOL

[Anonymous No.3743135]

>>3743006
>with exception of the really heavy hitters like Nintendo and Sega

LOL

[Anonymous No.3743475]

>>3739825
Actually no, X is the most popular with VII a close second. Also if we're taking the Jap's tastes into account then VII > VI, and Dragon Quest > Final Fantasy as a whole.

[Anonymous No.3743480]

>>3739791
VII was the one that actually started that shit, but I otherwise agree with your assessment of VIII.

[Anonymous No.3744346]

>>3743475
Um, what's your source for this?

By "popular" I meant "sold more copies". Here's a breakdown of the Japanese sales data for the games:
VII—3,277,776
VIII—3,501,588
IX—2,707,301
X—2,325,215

As you can see, in terms of sales, VIII>VII>IX>X. As for the actual popularity, I don't know about it. Maybe their outlook changed over time, we have to ask Japanese.

>Dragon Quest > Final Fantasy as a whole.
When you consider that every new gen saw 3 new FF games and 1–2 new DQ games, FF can be called more successful. DQ entries sell more than each FF game, but FF produces more games in total.

[Anonymous No.3744397]

I'd say in general when any mainline series gets irreversibly and drastically changed. Just look at this shit:

>Mario—we 3D now
>Zelda—we 3D now
>Donkey Kong—we 3D now
>Metroid—we FPS now
>Castlevania—we Metroid now

You'll say there's been tons of old-school Mario and Zelda games recently. Yeah right, except most of them are "dude NOSTALGIA lmao" tier, not the quality of the mainline series. Donkey Kong Returns! New Super Mario Bros U 2: Wii edition! Or imagine this: Zelda in 2D like in ye olde times! Oh yeah, we even got Sonic 4! It's really the 4 you've been waiting for my dude! (Sonic gets a pass for good Sonic Advance/Sonic Rush though. But not for this piece of shit)

I'll always say this, they should have done it like Capcom with Megaman. You have classic MM, you have MMX for more advanced gameplay, and you have Legends for cancerous 3D, but with waifus. No one is left feeling they've been deprived of their favorite franchise, or that their favorite series has been mixed with shit and with every new game the percentage of shit rises.

Most of all though, I hate Final Fantasy. Why? Because these fucks can't just name a game "FF Online" or just make a new spin-off like Romancing SaGa/SaGa Frontier/etc. They will sell a completely fucking different game under numerical FF title, then pretend it's all canon and all. They've been burying their franchise over and over for years now.

[Anonymous No.3744436]

>>3744346
For DQ I think the 'popular' litmus test is the mugging over copies of DQ games, which doesn't happen wiht FF games.

[Anonymous No.3744543]

>>3739602
>now every protagonist will be effeminate
Excuse you?

Still, Circle of the Moon is sort of an outsider to the series since it was lade by a different team, so I agree with everything else you said.

[Anonymous No.3744559]

>>3739640
I tried playing this a few years back and I have to say I have never understood the hype for it. People usually say 1 is the good one and any other subsequent game sucks, but I can't possibly be the only one who feels the gameplay and control is way too loose, the camera is way too floaty, the story is WAY too derpy and oh god the edgy rock music blasting at every inappropriate time was unbearable. I've seen modern sonic's faults and there's not a single one that isn't the evolution of some retarded thing in Adventure.

[Anonymous No.3744571]

>>3744543
Goddamn, CotM is a great game.

[Anonymous No.3744572]

>>3744436
Um, I don't think this has been a thing since DQ3. In any case, it doesn't make the news. DQ was a phenomenon in the Famicom era: it was the first definitive JRPG series and was also made by an all-star team. Back in the day the genre was new and not as oversaturated as it is now.

FF started way slower on Famicom. Ironically, the first game was a bigger seller in US than in Japan. But it grew with each successive title. By FFVI, they were selling roughly in the order of DQ games.

[Anonymous No.3744740]

>>3744571
It's my favorite Metroidvania-style game because it's the only one that seems to at least keep a semblance of the Classicvania difficulty.

If nothing else it does have one of the best character designs in the franchise.

[Anonymous No.3744858]

>>3739747
As shitty as TP was, I loved the overworld to death.

[Anonymous No.3744974]

>>3739747
>>3744858
One could argue that it was OoT itself, for while it did a lot good for the franchise (and 3D gaming as a whole), it also was the first (Zelda) related project of a man who admittedly didn't like the franchise prior. So naturally, when he goes to make sequels, it's going to ape the only thing he understands and knows of the series-- OoT.

[Anonymous No.3745553]

>>3744397
>Donkey Kong-we 3D now
The fuck ? The current donkey kong games are still 2D (with 3D graphics)

[Anonymous No.3745559]

>>3744572
I know the sales figures you made up are wrong. But I want to see proof of any such sales of DQ being in the same league as FF by even JP 3/III.

Also "all star team" is relative since at that time they were hardly known.

Please post proof of sales of DQ vs FF.

[Anonymous No.3745560]

>>3744397
There are plenty of Mario games that are not 3d. More important they are "new" which makes them kind of mediocre since they are NOT nostalgia based.

[Anonymous No.3745691]

>>3744397
what have you got against 3d, man?

[Anonymous No.3745748]

>>3745559
>I know the sales figures you made up are wrong.
You fucking retard. Don't you think I probably know what I'm talking about?

I took all the data from this page: https://matome.naver.jp/odai/2133948553901710501 . AFAIK, they use Famitsu sales numbers. They can differ by a small margin, but for a doubtful faggot like you, here's your proof you're so desperate for:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VIII
>As of March 31, 2003, the game had shipped 8.15 million copies worldwide: 3.7 million in Japan and 4.45 million abroad.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ファイナルファンタジーVII
>売上本数: 約328万本 (3,28 million in Japan)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Quest_VII
>It was the best-selling PlayStation game of 2000 in the region at 3.78 million copies sold.[41]

[Anonymous No.3745761]

>>3745559
>>3745748
>I want to see proof of any such sales of DQ being in the same league as FF by even JP 3/III.
But I told you they weren't exactly in the same league until FFVI. DQIII sold 3,80 mln copies in Japan, Final Fantasy III—1,40.

As for the rest, how about you google? Wikipedia has "reception" section for all these games, they state sales numbers very clearly.

>Also "all star team" is relative since at that time they were hardly known.
Are you saying Toriyama wasn't known back then? Sugiyama already had a successful career as a film/TV show composer. Horii was known for Portopia, but otherwise I don't know.

[Anonymous No.3745776]

>>3745691
I don't have anything against it. I just don't want to miss the old quality 2D series because they "needed" to go to 3D.

>>3745560
The whole point of these "New" games was cashing in on nostalgia, by pretending they were the actual new SMB games.

>>3745553
Maybe it's a bad example. But after DK64, DK went in a kinda went from AAA to title to BBB. Then they made "NEW" Donkey Kong Country in a desperate attempt to revitalize the franchise.

[Anonymous No.3745783]

>>3739602

Search your feelings, you know it to be true

[Anonymous No.3745792]

>>3745783
>Best Mario ruined Mario

[Anonymous No.3745847]

>>3739729
Great game
Cleared it on hard with both jumping schemes

Castlevania really needs a Castlevania maker realese like Mario

[Anonymous No.3746190]

>>3739602
System Shock ruined single-player FPS games.

[Anonymous No.3746207]

>>3745776
DKC returns was pretty successful

[Anonymous No.3746210]

Is this the contrarian containment thread?

[Anonymous No.3746218]

>>3746190
More like Bioshock. Neither of System Shlock games sold well.

[Anonymous No.3746253]

>>3746210
Its the contrarian containment board.

[Anonymous No.3746261]

>>3746253
this. board hasn't been good ever since we allowed dreamcast threads

[Anonymous No.3746276]

>>3744571
>CotM is a great game

It is exactly the opposite of that, but okay, please continue having the worst taste ever.

[Anonymous No.3746287]

>>3745783

Just because New Super Mario Bros can't stop sucking Mario 3's dick doesn't mean Mario 3 is what ruined the series.

[Anonymous No.3747285]

>>3739602
SOTN was Twilight of its age. Search your feelings, know it to be true.

[Anonymous No.3747295]

>>3739685
I would argue that the only remaining ones is Capcom and Squenix. I feel that they geared themselves towards a western market and are doing ok as well as Japanese companies can

[Anonymous No.3747297]

>>3739621
idk man with Rondo and Bloodlines I don't really need any more Castlevanias

[Anonymous No.3747320]

>>3747295
Nintendo still tops the charts with Pokemon every year it comes out. Moreover, older installments like X/Y STILL outsell many AAA titles in 2016. Their other 3DS games were also huge, but as it usually happens they don't make many of them towards the end of console's life cycle… lazy fucks.

Also, I should think you should add Level 5 who seem to be doing better than ever with Yokai Watch, Layton, and Inazuma Eleven. Despite their success is more localized in Japan, they still manage to thrive better than most other "big" companies.

[Anonymous No.3747327]

>>3746276

[Anonymous No.3747334]

I don't really think SotN killed Castlevania but let me explain.

Some series can't keep doing the same shit for a long time before getting old and Castlevania sure couldn't keep releasing games like the NES ones or Rondo without improving (think Classic megaman games)

SotN helped breathe new air in the series with a gameplay that actually worked pretty damn good.

Now here's the problem: it's getting old.
The exact worst thing that could happed to Classicvania is happening to Metroidvania so I guess now it's a damn good time to literally go back to its roots.

But KONAMI LIKES MONEY, let's have erotic pachinkos.

the ladies there are hot as fuck so I'm not complaining

[Anonymous No.3747516]

>>3739602
Just how deep in the closet are you that you're so easily triggered by girly-looking men?

[Anonymous No.3747521]

>>3739876
>right, technically gen II started it first by removing the old special stat
>how is that a bad thing (given that I liked gen I's non-plot)
>it was impossible from the very beginning, trading was always required

[Anonymous No.3748058]

>>3739890
god you're a faggot

[Anonymous No.3748074]

>>3746287
Correction my friend!

nuSMB is just sucking the dick of SMB1 with some sprinkles from 3 and World

I want a REAL Mario 5!

[Anonymous No.3748075]

>>3739981
>>3748058
But anon is right. Sega always tried to market their product as the "cooler" system, and Sonic was designed from the beginning to be someone who would compete with Mario as mascots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nsBoqJ6s8

[Anonymous No.3748110]

>>3748075
This was for US mostly. In Japan, they didn't do it exactly. Sonic wasn't terribly edgy right from the start. But the game wasn't much of a success in Japan. So naturally by DC they'd tailor it to American tastes

[Anonymous No.3748268]

>>3740375
>>3747521
Trading is a feature since the beginning. I'm talking about how you couldnt even finish the pokedex because you need it FRLG, Emerald and Stadium, and they came after RS. Mythicals Like Mew and Celebi werent necessary to complete, by the game, but they had their events.

The special stat had to be balanced because of shit like Alakazam. Gen 1 itself was a mess, and GSC actually balanced right. Complaining about fixes when theyre done right its stupid.

And what the fuck are you talking about Black and White? You had the option to transfer your older Pokémon just fine, unlike RS. Banned Pokémon? Who?

The handholding complaint its fine, even though the Pokémon in gen 5 are stronger compared to the old ones.

[Anonymous No.3748340]

I love all the castlevania games except the devil may cry ones and the wii fighting game. I even can get down with the N64 3d ones even though they are just mediocre. SotN and Rondo are the best two by far. The series never got old and always sold games consistently, Konami just doesn't make games if they can't make a boatload of cash on them anymore. They aren't motivated by large investment with smaller returns anymore. They would rather pump out cell phone games in japan that cost nothing to make but return alot. It's a smart business decision but it's not good for their brand.

[Anonymous No.3748363]

>>3748110
Sonic was huge in Japan, the game actually drove the sales of the mega drive way up. The Megadrive was way less popular than the PC engine and the fairly new Super Famicom at the time. Sega in general was just more popular in America at that time.

[Anonymous No.3748397]

>>3748363
Lol dude, did you pull that out of your ass? In Japan it sold a fraction of what it did in in US.

I can't find a definitive sales data for the first game. I see at VGChartz its stated as 260,000 copies, which is far from system seller tier, but it can be off by some margin. Meanwhile, the sales of the second one speak for themselves (taken from https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ソニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ2)
>US: 4,470,000 copies
>Europe: 1,200,000 copies
>Japan: 163,367 copies .

And with all that said, Sonic 1 remains the best selling Sonic game. Yep, later ones sold even less.

Do I need to add anything?

[Anonymous No.3748401]

>>3748397
>And with all that said, Sonic 1 remains the best selling Sonic game. Yep, later ones sold even less.
I meant in Japan, of course.

[Anonymous No.3748419]

This entire thread is great, thanks for the sensible chuckles, boys

[Anonymous No.3748536]

>>3745783
Wrong. SMB3 improved on the Mario formula excellently. It's 64 that killed it.