/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3713474]

>Took me 3 days to figure out how to beat the final boss

This is the first Final Fantasy that forced me to play defensive can anyone tell me what the fuck is up with this game? I played the PSX version if that matters

[Anonymous No.3713478]

How To Win:
Pick Samurai, spam Gil Toss.

[Anonymous No.3713479]

>>3713474
you gotta use your smarts and plan longterm

[Anonymous No.3713485]

>>3713479

Read: you gotta know what's good before hand because most classes are surprisingly useless

[Anonymous No.3713486]

>>3713474
what parties did you use when you couldn't beat him?

[Anonymous No.3713495]

>>3713486
3 summoners with white magic and a sorrcerer expecting to spam bahamut later I switched it up to time mage and samurai using haste and Gil Toss also shell because it kept one shotting me with ultragust

[Anonymous No.3713584]

>>3713474
This isn't surprising since Neo Exdeath is easily one of the most broken bosses in All of FF.

What the game expects you to do is master a shitload of jobs and go in as Bare so you can use the best weapons and armor, as well as abuse insane magic.

[Anonymous No.3713623]

>>3713474
>can anyone tell me what the fuck is up with this game?
Nothing wrong with the game, you just aren't that good at it.

[Anonymous No.3713649]

>>3713474
>red mage/two hand
>gladiator/two hand
>white/time
>samurai/dual wield
I had little trouble. Gladiator stole the show and fucked shit up with hasted attacks and healing every round

[Anonymous No.3713695]

>>3713474
People have beaten NeoExdeath with a party of 4 Berserkers.

[Anonymous No.3713718]

>>3713474
Been thinking about playing the GBA version of this recently....

Would anyone be willing to convince me as to why I should do this again?

[Anonymous No.3713754]

Anything else worth doing?

[Anonymous No.3713756]

>>3713485
most classes give you a good idea of what you get from mastery

>monk has random counters and increased barehand skills
>mastery gives those

that being said you have no reason of knowing that red mage gives dualcast, knight gives 2-hand, or that Ranger gives Rapid Fire

[Anonymous No.3713767]

>>3713718
Because you are now aware that the !throw command is stronger with int casters and you generally make more gil than spent

[Anonymous No.3713771]

>>3713767
Not sold.
I've never been huge into the game. Mostly due to certain aspects of the story.
Got any fun/interesting things I can do with this game that's not borked, and/or cheap.

[Anonymous No.3713776]

>>3713756
The same could be said for the monks Kick or Chakra abilities.

And the point of it is that you have to explore each class in multiple playthroughs (or grind to unlock all classes), to find the most secrets.

[Anonymous No.3713784]

>>3713771
>I've never been huge into the game. Mostly due to certain aspects of the story.

Try ignoring the story and playing because its fun.

I know, fun is just a buzzword, but you could give it a try - you may enjoy it, even.

[Anonymous No.3713793]

>>3713784
That is the plan. Which is why I'm actually considering playing the game again.

But if you don't want to give me fun/interesting things to do, so be it. You don't need to be a sperg about it though.

[Anonymous No.3713834]

>>3713793
>But if you don't want to give me fun/interesting things to do, so be it.

explore dungeons
find secret stuff in them
beat boss fights
listen to the great music, some of the best in the series
enjoy the comfy world that never turns into a depressing hellhole
explore the backstory and the legends behind the world
you have THREE worlds to explore in such a manner, the last one combines paths from the previous two to create twice the secrets
unlock more and more abilities in each class, then combine them to find a ridiculous amount of combinations, some devastating, some silly but fun (make a berserker monk, a mage who can cast both light and dark magic, a samurai who can dance, a doctor who is also a geologist, etc)
play as the harem king and dress up your 3 princess bitches in 30 different costumes each

It's a role playing game dude. Explore the world and find interesting things to do in it. Your creativity is the limit, and the fun comes from you finding different fun things to do.

[Anonymous No.3714031]

>>3713834
Now that's what I'm looking for!

Thank you, good sir! Your sales pitch made me smile. All good reasons to pick that game up again.

[Anonymous No.3714058]

>>3713834
Which FFV girl would you bang if you were Bartz?

[Anonymous No.3714152]

>>3714058

In order of preference:
1. Faris
2. Kirile
3. Lenna

[Anonymous No.3714228]

>>3713474
>Took me 3 days to beat shallow weebshit
Try some real video games, son.

[Anonymous No.3714510]

>>3714228
Fallout 1 has such an unwieldy interface that makes the immersion of this "real" video game a tormenting experience, not to mention the endless bugs: if you save in an area and aggro the inhabitants of an area(by accident or purpose), and you load the game to reverse the state, they are still aggro'd for some reason. Your teammates are shitty too, decent early on but military base/cathedral they are a huge liability. for inventory mules they improve quality of enjoyment i suppose.

While character building is the strongest feature, it comes down to range or melee. Super sledge(1ap attack build) or range plasma(turbo rifle or alien blaster). The creativity is the downside because if you have no agility then your character will be shit in battle. of course you can beat the game possibly in a pacifist run, first time players wont know that.

i know you are baiting but for those who actually agree with the sentiment, there are no "real" video games. Just play whatever you want and enjoy or not, dont pretend you found some perfect anti-thesis to end all discussion however. And i say this as a fan of fallout.

[Anonymous No.3714540]

>>3713834

Who would have guessed that being a badass with no self esteem problems or constant whining would net you some hot chicks

Also he's the only FF protagonist that can boast he killed an evil tree

[Anonymous No.3714570]

>>3714228
Fallout is just as broken and ill designed as the average FF though. the difference being that FF is broken because there's too little going on and a few options overshadow all the rest, Fallout is broken because there's too much going on and a few options overshadow all the rest, and Fallout has dialogue trees filled with american 90's humour and dad jokes, I guess.

You just pick your poison at the end of the day, Fallout is unarguably the actual RPG between the two don't get me wrong, that alone puts it a step above FF, but mechanically speaking, it's hardly better.

[Anonymous No.3714628]

>>3714058
All three of them, duh.

[Anonymous No.3714637]

>>3714570

The only "actual RPGs" are played on a tabletop with dice and virgins, but Fallout is certainly the better imitation.

[Anonymous No.3714704]

>>3714510
>The creativity is the downside because if you have no agility then your character will be shit in battle

I play those games Ironman and I routinely give my characters 4-5 AG because there literally is no reason to ever buff that stat - having 6-7 AP is enough to clear rats, scorpions, or shitty bandits, and you have two drugs that give you Agility - Buffout and Psycho. And the game throws those at you constantly, FO1 having numerous shops dedicated specifically to drugs.

Also, whereas in FF5 I can make 4 characters with completely random job compositions and make some fun playstyles around that, in Fallout 1 I will probably, inevitably, be locked into making another gunslinging sniper or supersledger, because that game is easily broken and its shortcomings in gameplay are always only justified with its story and dialogue aspects.

[Anonymous No.3714731]

>>3714540
Damn those are some top waifus

[Anonymous No.3714754]

>>3714704
Fallout is one of my favourite games but I agree the gameplay itself kind of sucks. I just think it's such a fun world to explore. My problem with a lot of JRPGs is that half of the NPCs might as well just be signs, since the most conversation you get out of them is "The weapon shop is on the north side of town", or "The empire will never defeat us! Bring it on!". I also really liked the way exposition was given in Fallout via things like holodisks, for example in The Glow, and I don't know of many JRPGs that have anything similar.

I'd like to find some retro JRPGs that have a similarly engaging world that just makes me want to keep playing to find out more.

[Anonymous No.3714769]

>>3714570
"Broken" does not mean the same thing as "I don't like it."

[Anonymous No.3714795]

>>3714754
>I'd like to find some retro JRPGs that have a similarly engaging world that just makes me want to keep playing to find out more.
Why don't you try Metal Max? It's also set in a postapocalyptic world like Fallout so I think you'd get into it easily, for some things it actually predated Fallout, though its setting is more like a Mad Max homage rather than the bleaker setting in Fallout.
Give it a go.
>>3714769
Both games are terribly broken, it's not a matter of liking or not liking.
FF5 gives you so many OP tools that not only make the game piss easy, it also makes most classes a waste of time and severly underpowered compared to others, not to mention that the freelancers being able to any other command as long as you mastered the other classes was a terribly idea.
In Fallout INT builds are king and there's no other build as good as a INT build, by far, INT build are so powerful you have to actively not put points in there if you want to actually play a game because they trivialize the game completely, there is no semblance of balance if you go for an INT build due to the fucking retarded decision to give you more skill points the more INT you have, which makes any other build inferior by default.
Low INT build can be a lot of fun if you want something different, but don't tell me that the game had good design when a single stat gives you more advantage than any other thing in the game put together, you have little reasons not to make a INT build in Fallout.

[Anonymous No.3714803]

>>3714795
>not to mention that the freelancers being able to any other command as long as you mastered the other classes was a terribly idea.
lolwut

giving the option to mold your character as you want is never a terrible idea. of course you can cheese and make it completely broken if you're a wuss, but you also open many possibilities for fun/weird shit and that increases the replay value by a lot, vide FFV fiestas

a big toybox with all stuff always can end up in people getting the most expensive ones but you can still play around with all the others. its way better than giving you a real gun or a plastic peashooter only

[Anonymous No.3714804]

>>3714795
I gave Metal Max Returns a try last year, but I wasn't very impressed. It is open ended, I'll give it that, but the NPCs still didn't seem like they really had anything to say, nor was there much of a story to tell, so as a result it just felt kind of directionless and boring. I just remember it being more about getting gear and tank parts than exploring an interesting world with a rich backstory.

[Anonymous No.3714807]

>>3714804
I should add that I only played it for about 5 hours or so. Does it noticeably improve beyond that point? If so I'll try it again.

[Anonymous No.3714827]

>>3714540
>Also he's the only FF protagonist that can boast he killed an evil tree
nigga was the craziest evil tree the series has ever seen. He was just a total evil asshole and loved every minute of it. He also turned into a toothpick to infiltrate the heroes' party, because only a fucking tree would think about doing that. That's why Exdeath = best villain.

[Anonymous No.3714836]

>>3714827
he's edgy as fuck and i would probably hate him in any other game but it works in FFV because the entire story is lighthearted and on the comical side

edgy villains just make your GRIMDARK SUPER SERIOUS stories look even dumber which is why other FF villains are usually so stupid

[Anonymous No.3714856]

>>3713485
People run 4 job fiesta (locked in class rules) runs of the game like annually, nearly every job can do the job.

[Anonymous No.3714857]

>>3714803
>giving the option to mold your character as you want is never a terrible idea.
You can't mold a character how you want in FFV though, you can't control growth, you can't only apply a batch of fixed abilities on a layout.
And it is a terrible idea when it completely invalidates the whole job system because you have no reason to ever use any other class than freelancer once you have mastered a few of them.
>but you also open many possibilities for fun/weird shit and that increases the replay value by a lot
I don't see this. the game is linear and the design is overall shallow, there is no challenge and the vast majority of classes are simpply different DPS classes, some worse than others, magic is boring and the only mage class that is vaguely interesting to play is Blue Mage, Mimics break the game, Geomancers/Beast Masters are useless, and again, I can't even customize all that much to begin with and I'm forced to go freelancer if I want to, and Freelancer is broken, the GBA classes like Gladiator or Necromancer are even more hilariously broken. It's a very limited game, there's not nearly enough depth or replay value for me, especially if your argument is having control on your characters, which you have not.
>>3714804
>but the NPCs still didn't seem like they really had anything to say
That's true, because the NPC don't know anything about what's going on in the world, you have to see that for yourself by exploring and finding clues like memos or disks, much like Fallout, once you solve the puzzle things make much more sense, but admittedly, you have to dig around a lot.
It is different from Fallout in the sense that you're thrown in as a part of a world and you have to find the story for yourself instead of listening to bits and pieces from NPCs.
>Does it noticeably improve beyond that point
I don't even know where you got to so I can't tell. in five hours you can do a lot of things since the game is pretty open.

[Anonymous No.3714860]

Beat Neo-X on first try with a level 35~ party with no preparation. I actually went into the fight for reconnaissance but ended up playing it out git gud faget

That being said my style of party was very defensive

[Anonymous No.3714865]

>>3714857
>And it is a terrible idea when it completely invalidates the whole job system because you have no reason to ever use any other class than freelancer once you have mastered a few of them.
Mastering classes takes a lot of effort. if you do get all classes mastered then you damn well deserve the reward of using it. i still don't see your issue with it

>the game is linear and the design is overall shallow, there is no challenge

oh you just hate RPGs
because if you seriously think that FFV is shallow and offer no challenge then you damn well hate the entire other games. FFV is the first (and to this day only) FF game that had interesting/challenging bosses in their gameplay instead of being one-off gimmicks.

Mimic is a secret class that you get way later in the game, you're likewise complaining about an optional secret weapon that you get in the final third of the game to be stronger than the rest, this is preposterous

all the classes are not equal in strength and that was never the intention. expecting something like that is insane. all classes are viable though, as fiestas proved time and time again, so the balancing of FFV is perfect. you just don't like the game and that's fine, but thats a flaw with YOU, not the game

[Anonymous No.3714914]

>>3714865
>Mastering classes takes a lot of effort
Grinding AP takes zero effort or strategy, it only takes time and it's exta tedious.
>oh you just hate RPGs
It's one of my favorite genres since I was a little kid, so no.
>then you damn well hate the entire other games.
I do not.
>FFV is the first (and to this day only) FF game that had interesting/challenging bosses in their gameplay instead of being one-off gimmicks.
If that's what you want to believe, sure. FF is a casual, light RPG series for children and teenagers anyway so no skin off my teeth.
>this is preposterous
It really isn't, just because it's a bit hidden doesn't make it right to be a "I win" button, especially when most other classes are already braindead to use.
>all the classes are not equal in strength and that was never the intention
It sure wasn't, but the game itself doesn't offer enough challenge or depth to make me bother with the vast majority of them, because the game itself is shallow, so the only "challenge" you can get is purposedly playing the game with the weakest set of classes, and it's still more than enough doable, because again, the game is a shallow DPS race with little to no gimmicks or actual depth.
If you think Fiesta proves anything other than the game being as shallow as a rain puddle I don't know what to say, maybe you should play better RPGs because you seem a person with a very limited experience in the genre, especially if you hold a FF title in such high esteem.

[Anonymous No.3714919]

>>3714058

Marry Faris ignore the rest

[Anonymous No.3714924]

>>3714795
>freelancers being able to any other command as long as you mastered the other classes was a terribly idea.

This is the worst opinion I've ever heard

What do you have against fun?

[Anonymous No.3714926]

>>3714914

Spending time grinding is effort m8

[Anonymous No.3714927]

>>3714857
>Geomancers/Beast Masters are useless

Invalid, unless there's some difference from the SFC version their abilities are extremely powerful for crowd control and against enemies weak to Earth and Wind

[Anonymous No.3714928]

Anyone play the Ancient Cave romhack for FF5?

Like 99 random floors where all your gear/jobs/spells are locked behind chests that are random.

[Anonymous No.3714937]

>>3714914
Your post just made clear that you don't like the game and are biased against it. Cool. Just shut up and find another thread about something you like then. I don't think you're getting much of a kick talking about how better you are for not enjoying kiddie casual games like FFV here - /v/ is way more your cup of tea. The way you masterfully ignored all points to use "i dont like it" as a rebuttal to everything would make them proud.

[Anonymous No.3714939]

>>3714914
>Grinding AP takes zero effort

So you're using a gameshark then? No wonder the game isn't challenging for you.

[Anonymous No.3714962]

>>3714939
not him but in the GBA port if you [spoiler for game-breaking exploit] quicksave in the final area the second random battle is guaranteed to be that encounter with the three small enemies that guarantees 99 AP on victory.

I maxed out many jobs as a teenager with that trick.

I needed it for that extra dungeon though. Man that was nuts.

>that room filled with Omegas
>mfw

[Anonymous No.3714969]

>>3714927
You're saying this like monsters are dangerous or battles are hard in FFV.
>>3714937
You're the one who ignored my points and on top of that you are getting all hot and bothered by a person pointing how evident some design flaws are in the game.
Not once did I say that I don't like something, I simply said that the system itself is shallow, unbalanced and oversimplified to the point that an otherwise sound idea doesn't work at all.

What's the meaning of giving you twenty different options where 15 of those are the same exact thing with 5 of those 15 that work undeniably better than others in any scenario?
Why should I bother at all with Thieves when there's nothing good to steal? Why should I bother with Knights when Mystic Knights hit way harder and there's no point in protecting allies at all since you can spam Phoenix dows? Why should I bother with Black Mages outside of farming AP to master their commands and slap it on a Time Mage later on since Mystic Knights outclass them even in elemental damage?
And on top of that once I learned all of those commands I have no reason at all to use the aformentioned classes since Freelancer can do any thing better than the original classes? What's the point of having classes to begin with when they end up being vastly useless and forgotten? They made the very same mistake FFIII did, they learned nothing from their errors.

And your inability to accept any sort of objective criticism is exactly the behaviour of the average /v/ermin, so stop being a passive aggressive little bitch and learn how to discuss things like a grown up man.
>>3714939
I didn't know using mass attacks on ABP piñatas was something you needed a gameshark for.

[Anonymous No.3714985]

>>3714962
it was intentional. exactly for the dungeon you mentioned. it's insane to complain about endgame content being overpowered or giving you too much exp - Ap: the problem would be the exact opposite.the best way to grind AP will always be killing Object D'Art anyway

>>3714969
>I simply said that the system itself is shallow, unbalanced and oversimplified
and gave no further comments on it till this post which is full of bullshit
>20 different options but 15 are the same thing!
you literally never played the game if you want to believe in this
>Why bother at all with Thieves when there's nothing good to steal?
FFV was the first FF game to have items worth a damn stealing unlike FFIV. all the rods you could get, genji equipment from gilgamesh, rare components for chemistry, most of the bosses usually had their own good loot and thieves had the best utility skills out of the classes. many games did thieves wrong but FFV is not one of them
>Why should I bother with Knights when Mystic Knights hit way harder
not only this is incorrect and knights can still hit harder with the proper equipment, but their defensive prowess and skills are better for tanks too
"what's the point of surviving better when you can revive people" is such a retarded argument i'm not even wasting words on it
>Why should I bother with Black Mages outside of farming AP to master their commands and slap it on a Time Mage later on since Mystic Knights outclass them even in elemental damage?
Unique spells which you can't use as mystic knights, plus better magic resistance. if you want to treat everything as "THIS DOESNT WORK BECAUSE THIS OTHER OPTION DOES MORE DAMAGE" then not only every single RPG out there would be meaningless, you're not even using the best FFV example for pure raw damage anyway. you're clueless
> I have no reason to use other classes since Freelancer can do any thing better than the original classes?
because you spent the entire game mastering the other classes you retard

[Anonymous No.3715015]

>>3714985
>you literally never played the game if you want to believe in this
I did play the game, contrary to what you want to believe.
>FFV was the first FF game to have items worth a damn stealing unlike FFIV.
You don't need any of those, the game is way too easy to even justifying wasting time stealing the genji set.
>rare components for chemistry
Why should I even bother with chemists when any spellcaster is better? Glitches?
>not only this is incorrect and knights can still hit harder with the proper equipment
Knights don't have access to elements so they're instantly discarded, if there was some decent damage distiction between weapon types or something it would be a whole other question, but there isn't.
>what's the point of surviving better when you can revive people
Survive better? There's no downsides at all to getting knocked out, money is plentiful and so is EXP, there's no penalty at all if you get KO'd unlike other games, so yes, it is absolutely a non issue.
>Unique spells which you can't use as mystic knights
But I can put on another time mage, and Black Mages have garbage HP and defense so higher magic resistance means nothing.
> if you want to treat everything as "THIS DOESNT WORK BECAUSE THIS OTHER OPTION DOES MORE DAMAGE"
I treat it like this because that's what the game does, there's no tricks to the game rather than maximizing damage, there is no necessity for survival because the game gives you plenty of tools to make it irrelevant, and only a handful of enemies can even manage to knock out a party member, 90% of which are special bosses whose gimmick is being faster at the DPS race than other monsters.
>then not only every single RPG out there would be meaningles
If you seriously think that's the case you're only showing your ignorance of the genre and that's pretty sad if you say you like RPGs as much as you do.
>because you spent the entire game mastering the other classes you retard
No, I didn't, and it's still not an excuse.

[Anonymous No.3715018]

>>3715015
I'm not involved in this argument but you definitely come across as not liking RPGs because pretty much all of them have similar problems to what you're complaining about. Every Final Fantasy game has a slew of spells and skills that are useless when you can just maximise damage. In Western RPGs, like Fallout, most of the stats are useless and there's only a few that you should dump all your points in.

I've always felt that if you're playing RPGs for the gameplay mechanics, you're doing it wrong. Good gameplay and good plot/worldbuilding are pretty much mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous No.3715035]

>>3715018
"Fallout is complete shit why would i even bother with charisma, outdoorsman, doctor, first aid, traps and all the other skills when i can just put points in agility and energy weapons and kill everyone with the YK32 pistol seriously no character buildiing at all worst RPG"

[Anonymous No.3715041]

>>3715035
Yeah, exactly. I'm the guy from >>3714754

I love Fallout but I'd be crazy if I said the gameplay mechanics were better than any Final Fantasy game I've played. They're not really worse either, it's just most RPGs tend to give you the illusion of customisation when it actually all converges into one "proper" playstyle.

[Anonymous No.3715051]

>>3715018
>because pretty much all of them have similar problems to what you're complaining about.
This isn't really true.
Let me make explain things a bit further though.

The actual problem of FFV, and many other RPGs, isn't the damage race in itself, the problem is that the damage race isn't built well. As I said before, if FFV did make some better distinction between classes and general game mechanics it would have been a great game, for instance, make some weapon damage mechanic, so that spears work on a different damage type than axes, make racial distinctions so certain monsters have better defense against certain types of damage like piercing or blunt damage, give enemies more tools with actual unique effects, not some souped up attacks with different ATK values. The DPS race would still be there, but the game benefit immensely from even simple nuances such as those, you'd have much more reasons to use a Berserker for instance since Axes might have the best cutting power of all weapons, which would outperform, say, dragoons in certain situations even if said Dragoons have a statistically superior weapon at the time, conversely make Dragoons masters of spears and piercing damage so that they have a whole piece of the game for themselves where they can truly shine, give different casting time to casters, and ultimately scrap Freelancer altogether or give it some goddamn handicaps so you still have reasons to use other classes.

Other games did this even at the time, it's not really hard to do, it makes the game much more balanced and enjoyable to play, replay and explore, especially if you make a game with a non fixed job system where you unlock jobs with plot progression.
>Good gameplay and good plot/worldbuilding are pretty much mutually exclusive.
Depends on what you think it's good plot and worldbuilding, I personally don't care much about those anyway, if the game isn't fun to play I sure won't play it for the story, no matter how "good" that might be.

[Anonymous No.3715052]

>>3715051
Freelancer is not a different class option, it's a class made up of all the other classes which you can power up as much (or little) as you want. It starts as the crappiest class and can end up as the strongest one depending on you effort.

I still don't get how you can fail to compreheend such a basic concept.

[Anonymous No.3715067]

>>3715015
>Why should I even bother with chemists when any spellcaster is better?
Not him, but now it's crystal clear that you're clueless.

[Anonymous No.3715140]

>>3715052
>Freelancer is not a different class option
It is literally a different class option, with its gimmick being that it's a blank slate with no locked ability slots, unlike all the others, its problem being that it makes the other classes irrelevant once you mastered them.
My problem with Freelancers is that they they're inserted in a game concept that works around classes having commands as their focal point, raw stats itself are mostly irrelevant due to many reasons, bad balance, stat bloat, it's admittedly hard to balance stats across a game though so don't get me wrong, not even action games do that well, it's not just a RPG problem.

By having a class that doesn't follow the general pattern and doesn't have any actual handicap, Freelancer can also equip everthing on top of having great all around stats, you work against the whole class system by the time you mastered even a few of them, why should I bother playing as those frail as fuck white mages when I can grind ABP for their commands and slap them on a Freelancer, which will also be a good fighter?
Why should I bother play as a Ranger when I can just slap Rapidfire on a Freelancer with the best swords in the game? Why should I even bother with Beastmasters? There's not even a roleplay element like Fallout to justify wasting time with those classes.

And by all of this I'm not saying that there's classes that aren't viable, the game's far too easy for that, but many classes are absolutely, objectively inferior compared to others or situational at best, sure, use them if you want a challenge(?) or some novelty, but the game doesn't really have the mechanical depth or finesse to make it worth it, it's still a shallow damage race with little room for anything else, having no actual roleplay only hurts it further.
>>3715067
Have fun wasting time gathering ingredients for a few glorified spells and some glitches then, I prefer not wasting time on menus when I could do something else.

[Anonymous No.3715175]

>>3715140
>Why should I bother play as a Ranger when I can just slap Rapidfire on a Freelancer with the best swords in the game?

Because you can't reap the benefits of a freelancer-ranger without playing as a Ranger first. Same for stats, which you only gain enough to buff Freelancer as a viable option after mastering a ton of classes. That applies to all of them.

Why would you remain in any class after mastering it? The game wants you to mix and match during most of it, not to be locked in a single one like the previous game (IV). Everything in the mechanics points towards it. And then in the end game you pick freelancer and make your own class to play through the rest.

You don't seem to understand the game and keep blaming it for not being in accord of a personal view you have (how you keep complaining about the game being easy when Final Fantasy was never a challenging series to begin with). Judging by all the different people that already answered you in this thread you can take the hint that your opinion is not the popular one. You also have a very poor understanding of how classes work in the game by your comments so far. Again, you don't like it, that's fine, but that's like your opinion man. The game isn't any more broken than other RPGs including fallout in which roleplaying goes down the drain because everyone and their mothers pick power armor and energy/gauss weapons by the mid to end game.

[Anonymous No.3715236]

>>3715035
>charisma, outdoorsman, doctor, first aid,
Those are useful in FO:Tactics but fanboys all scream MUH CANON and NOT RETRO to that. So fuck them for trying .

[Anonymous No.3715243]

>>3715051
All the classes are quite exploitable. Just read an FAQ. Only class I can think of that sucks in combat is Thief, but that's more of a meta-class for skills useful in the overworld. It's just that some class skills are more overpowered than others. E.g. Gil Toss and Throw. Gil Toss of course waste a hell lot of money but you can kill bosses with it. Throw would require you to waste powerful weapons or use the right element that a boss is weak to.

[Anonymous No.3715264]

>>3715175
>Because you can't reap the benefits of a freelancer-ranger without playing as a Ranger first.
I don't count playing as a Ranger when I can just grind ABP and never even input a command besides attack on anyone playing as such. That's not playing as a Ranger and I do not have any incentive to actually do so in the game, it's only a costume I put a character in for a few battles to grind enough ABP and then forget about it completely.
>Why would you remain in any class after mastering it?
Because the game has classes? What's the point of having classes at all if you don't use them? Might as well make a skill tree where you put your ABP to unlock abilities at that point. What's the point of making an entire element that ends up being vastly useless and forgotten?
>You don't seem to understand the game and keep blaming it for not being in accord of a personal view you have
It's not that I don't understand the game, I just find that it has a pretty bad design with tons of arguable choices all around that don't work well together, but admittedly I'm used to another kind of RPG to begin with.
>you can take the hint that your opinion is not the popular one
I am very well aware of that, I don't see what this has to do with the current discussion though.
>You also have a very poor understanding of how classes work in the game by your comments so far.
I doubt it, considering no actual argument has been made other than "You don't like it".

And for the record, I have repeatedly said that Fallout isn't any better from my very first post, but to say that FFV isn't any more broken than other RPGs is simply a tremendously ignorant statement.
And you people are only saying that since other games, with the only other example provided being Fallout, are also broken that justifies FFV being broken and makes it a good game, if you say this you either are a blind fanboy or a person with incredibly low standards.

[Anonymous No.3715282]

>>3715236
Because played fallout for the interesting dialogue and world exploration, not the combat mechanics.

[Anonymous No.3715293]

>>3713485
all the classes are good. especially the ones you think are useless.

[Anonymous No.3715316]

>>3714827
He also turns into a bizarre orgy of random crap, zombies, skeletons, zombie/skeleton dragons, and semi-naked women.

>>3714836
>he's edgy as fuck and i would probably hate him in any other game

He is the evil turbo mage with a castle and an army who was enslaved between dimensions because he is such a fucking asshole. That's good enough for me, I don't need a half hour long exposition on why he turned out like that.

You didn't need it for Darth Vader either - he was the big bad guy, and that justified everything he did and every bullshit he pulled (blocking blaster shots with his hand, etc).

[Anonymous No.3715347]

>>3714857
>magic is boring and the only mage class that is vaguely interesting to play is Blue Mage
Red Mage gives you ability to cast weaker white+black magic, useful if you are some other class with high INT that isn't white/black mage. Like a summoner who gets backup healing, or even one of those stupider classes with good stats, I think Dancer had high INT?

There's also Sword Mage who can do ridiculous damage for 1 turn of setup, Time mages who can cast slow/haste, return, exit, haul down comets, or do a magic that allows them act TWICE in one turn. You could set up a mimic who can also cast Bahamut 4 times in a row in one turn. What is not interesting here?

>Mimics break the game
Hidden class, so duh.

>Geomancers/Beast Masters are useless
Beastmasters are a key to getting some of the best spells in the game, plus they can control some enemies you otherwise could not kill until half the game later (good for levelling up or exploring while under leveled).
Geomancers are only good for taking no damage on lava, spikes, and avoiding traps, which is not much but at least you can quickly master their class.

>I can't even customize all that much to begin with and I'm forced to go freelancer if I want to, and Freelancer is broken

Freelancer only customizes you by allowing 2 custom abilities, and it's useless as shit until you get enough mastered jobs, which won't happen until you are two thirds into the game.

Getting only 1 custom ability for your current class can be already devastating if you do some good combinations. Berserkers with 2-handed, 2-swords, or barehanded for example. Healer mages who can summon. Or Ninjas with x-fight.

>GBA classes like Gladiator or Necromancer are even more hilariously broken
Also hidden classes.

>It's a very limited game, there's not nearly enough depth or replay value for me

Sounds to me that you just have a limited imagination.

[Anonymous No.3715357]

>>3714969
>I didn't know using mass attacks on ABP piñatas was something you needed a gameshark for.

You don't even have enemies that give you decent ABP until the third world, unless you count the Shield Dragons (who you can only kill by controlling and it takes 6 turns even then), or the stone knights in the Val Castle basement (for which you need either a shitton of gold needles, or an elusive and difficult to learn blue magic, L5 Death, which also uses a lot of MP so you have to get out to heal often).

[Anonymous No.3715358]

>>3715347
>Sounds to me that you just have a limited imagination.

Nah he's correct

I mean, all those people doing Fiestas every year must probably be plebeian as fuck in their tastes too right? No one would play such a shallow RPG for so long.

[Anonymous No.3715363]

>>3714985
>the best way to grind AP will always be killing Object D'Art anyway

No, it's the last area of the cleft of dimensions, between Exdeath and the last battle with Gilgamesh. Average random encounter gives you 20-48 ABP, plus you can rarely fight Movers who give you 150 ABP. Monsters are pretty damn strong there, though, and if Odin bugs out then they also start throwing Meteo on you.

The elixir guzzling puts in the Phoenix Tower also give you a ridiculous amount of ABP (150 I think), but you only get a few of them, and elixirs are difficult to come by. Still, if you stock up, enough to master a few classes in 1 dungeon.

But that's all endgame content anyway.

[Anonymous No.3715380]

>>3715358
>Fiestas

Total shitshow.

Your run is either easy as fuck because you got Blue Mage, or hard (or rather, tedious) as fuck because you didn't get a healer and some of the worst classes in the game

I'll never do the Fiesta again. I'm seriously like 3 times in a row getting Thief or Berserker and Dancer.

[Anonymous No.3715417]

>>3715380
If you enjoy fiestas or not is irrelevant to the point that tons of people still play the damn game every year instead of playing anything else. They're not being paid by squeenix to play FFV alone you know

[Anonymous No.3715434]

>>3715380
Thief is one of the most useful support classes, and Berserker is a great physical attacker.

[Anonymous No.3715438]

>>3715380
>dancer
>bad

ohhhh boyo

[Anonymous No.3715443]

>>3715438
Dancer is bad when it's your final class and you already have Thief or Berserker like I said.

You can hide behind the argument that Sword Dance is good but it's
>Unreliable as all hell, even with all the buffing items
>Dancers are pathetic in terms of everything else, awful survivability, and you're forced to use the dance equipment
>Dance as a subcommand is even less reliable because you can't use all the gear

4x damage isn't that impressive when you've whiffed 4x in a row and gotten jitterbug.

[Anonymous No.3715462]

>>3715316
>so whatchu want for you final form?
>just fuck my shit up senpai

[Anonymous No.3715463]

>>3715347
>What is not interesting here?
They're precisely the only interesting things in there, that work on a rather primitive damage system on top of that, in a game that doesn't even have the difficulty to justify grinding that much to make such setups. So yeah, if you enjoy seeing numbers grow that much good for you, that's not fun for me, that's not what makes a good RPG and a good game for me.
>Hidden class, so duh.
Tons of games have hidden content that's actually balanced.
>Beastmasters are a key to getting some of the best spells in the game
If you bother with Blue Mages.
>and it's useless as shit until you get enough mastered jobs
It's not useless at all and you don't need to master more than a handful of jobs, which can be done rather handily along the way.
Why the hell would you master a Berserker if not for completion?
>Sounds to me that you just have a limited imagination.
I don't know, what's so fun about doing simple damage calculations in a system that doesn't even support rudimentary mechanics like weapon type damage or difference between physical and ranged attacks? There's not even any fight that requires much thought due to the system being so barebones and focused on who can hit harder and faster rather than formulating some clever strategies.
>>3715357
>You don't even have enemies that give you decent ABP until the third world
You don't even need to farm ABP by that point, nothing in the game is hard enough to justify it.
>>3715358
That's one of the most ridiculous arguments you could come up with.
I guess Candy Crush is a much better game than FFV then, because much more people play it daily, for years, rather than doing that silly Fiesta event, not to mention that if you need to mention a yearly event as proof of interest towards a game is rather pathetic, it's really just a tedious way to try to sprinkle some "novelty" in a boring game, only a handful of aficionados bother with it.

[Anonymous No.3715482]

>>3715463
>>Sounds to me that you just have a limited imagination.
>I don't know, what's so fun about doing simple damage calculations in a system that doesn't even support rudimentary mechanics like weapon type damage or difference between physical and ranged attacks? There's not even any fight that requires much thought due to the system being so barebones and focused on who can hit harder and faster rather than formulating some clever strategies.

I would make an argument that FF5 actually requires you to think outside the box more than any other FF in the series.

The game is designed that way. The first time you fight Ex-Death is the first time you encounter Tier3 magic. What do they give you right before you fight him? Carbuncle.

There are numerous fights in FF5 that require thought.

The crystals in the flaming forest counter with powerful magic so you need to adjust your strategy. Omnicient counters all physical attacks by resetting the battle.

There are tons of fights that require you to change your strategies, and thats because FF5 knows exactly what you have access to at that point because of the job system.

[Anonymous No.3715487]

>>3715463
>I guess Candy Crush is a much better game than FFV then, because much more people play it daily, for years
It's not a better game, but it's way more popular and apparently entertaining enough to keep all those players hooked for sure, which is the point being discussed. But i'm sure you're going around candy crush forums telling people how shallow and stupid for a match3 the game is and how they should play huniepop instead

Stop grasping at straws

[Anonymous No.3715502]

>>3715482

Saying FF5 is the most complicated FF isn't exactly an argument in your favor... FF is known for many things but genuine difficulty isn't one of them.

[Anonymous No.3715503]

>>3715443
The thing is, even if a class sucks horribly, you can still give them the monks Barehanded, or give them a good magic attack. Or put them in the back row and make them summon Bahamut, or cast Meteo or Thunder3 or White Wind, or just keep them as a backup healer or unit to cast resurrect with (with a ribbon they are also immune to lockdowns so they can keep up in some situations better).

Or give them the Mix ability.

That's the point of FFV, you can make any class better with abilities from other classes.

[Anonymous No.3715526]

>>3715463
>I don't know, what's so fun about doing simple damage calculations in a system that doesn't even support rudimentary mechanics like weapon type damage or difference between physical and ranged attacks?

It differentiates between elemental attacks/weaknesses, some enemies can have more defence against physical but not to magical attacks, some enemies have special defence to both and can only be hurt by Blowfish or some other special setup. Some enemies have an elemental weakness but high magic defence, and you can exploit that weak point with sword mages.

There are something like a dozen statuses that can affect how you can kill an enemy, such as soft/gold needle, vulnerability to instant death, undead status (healing items will do damage, holy water instakills), whether they are controllable or not, if they are susceptible to mini, toad, berserk, old, whether they have innate reflect status (reflects all magic, but you can put reflect on yourself and cast magic on yourself to get around it), how high is their Evade stat. Some spells hit/miss based on what the targets LEVEL NUMBER is divisible with (L4 Flare, L5 Death, etc).

Hell you can even cast roulette which randomly kills someone in a fight. Maybe you get lucky and kill a boss.

and iirc certain weapons do full damage from the back row, like the boomerangs and bows, so yeah, there is a difference between physical and ranged attacks too.

[Anonymous No.3715531]

>>3715503
Im talking about Dancer strictly in the context of the 4JF.

Obviously if you give them broken shit they're fine. The problem with Tthe 4JF is that you can absolutely get nothing broken and it showcases the problems with FF5 when you dont have access to anything good.

[Anonymous No.3715536]

>>3715526
Bosses like Archeoavis and Siren change weaknesses on the fly to counter the player
Bosses like the undead t-rex can either be a huge pain in the ass or die to a single item if you use your brain and think about game logic
You can even skip entire bosses if you're smart enough about your fighting (like never seeing Forza against Magissa)
And then there are entire areas that play around the gameplay mechanics like fork tower and reflect cave

This guy just have a massive hateboner for FF5 for some reason

[Anonymous No.3715539]

>>3715531
>Obviously if you give them broken shit they're fine
You were just complaining about how useless Mix and Chemists were and now "it's broken shit ofc if you use it you'll be fine"???

lol

[Anonymous No.3715542]

>>3715539
Im not the guy you're arguing with.

Mix is absolutely broken as fuck.

[Anonymous No.3715545]

>>3715531
So don't play the same 4 jobs only then? You might as well argue that Mario no-run speedruns are broken because there's a pit in the game you can only jump over with when running at full speed.

[Anonymous No.3715548]

>>3715545
>So don't play the same 4 jobs only then?
I think he's playing randomized fiesta so he doesnt get a choice on the jobs

Still, the usual ruleset give you four jobs and then you pick your team from them. nothing stopping him from going full dancer squad if that's the case

[Anonymous No.3715557]

>>3715482
>I would make an argument that FF5 actually requires you to think outside the box more than any other FF in the series.
That's barely an achievement though.
>>3715482
>The crystals in the flaming forest counter with powerful magic so you need to adjust your strategy. Omnicient counters all physical attacks by resetting the battle.
If those are actually well designed fights for you I'll stop right here.
>>3715487
>Stop grasping at straws
How is it grasping at straws? Saying that FFV is a deep or entertaining game based on Fiesta of all thing is fucking stupid and deserves to be derided by an equally stupid argument.
>>3715526
Elemental weaknesses and Physical/Magical resistances are nothing to write home about though.
Most statuses are wildly useless and the vast majority of the times you'd be better off killing stuff with hard damage instead.
>Some spells hit/miss based on what the targets LEVEL NUMBER is divisible with (L4 Flare, L5 Death, etc).
Situational at best, mostly useless for 90% of the game.
>and iirc certain weapons do full damage from the back row
That has nothing to do with ranged or physical attacks though.

The game doesn't differentiate between an arrow or a sword blow, there's is no concept of "projectiles", what you see is a different graphical represetation of the very same thing, for the game that arrow you shoot as a ranger is the very same thing as a sword attack, it just applies a negative multiplier on your basic ATK calculation if you're in the backrows, which is the same thing that FF has been doing since FFII, hardly anything new or elaborate for a RPG, it was an extremely basic rule even for its time.

[Anonymous No.3715567]

>>3715557
>who cares if enough people play it every year with tons of different combinations the game is shallow as a pond

Now you got me curious about this unbelievably deep JRPG you like instead of crap like Final Fantasy V though, do tell us

[Anonymous No.3715571]

>>3715557
>there's is no concept of "projectiles",

What does that matter anyway, you want the ability to catch arrows out of the air? In a 1992 game made for a system with a 3MHz CPU?

[Anonymous No.3715634]

>>3715567
First off, I never said FFV was crap, so stop with your victimist bullshit right there and learn how to take some criticism.
Secondly, there's tons of games that have better, deeper mechanics, just to stay in Square's own turf, the SaGa series.
If you want something more obscure there's Artdink's Lunatic Dawn, which also included a very interesting set of roleplay mechanics, though that was a PC game.

Either way, there no "unbelievably deep RPG" out there, western or japanese, but there are games that have better designs than others, FFV itself is probably the better game of the bunch, especially if you restrict the field to retro games, but even for its time it was largely unimpressive when it came to actual game systems. That doesn't mean that it's a shitty game, it's no Princess Minerva, but at the same time it's not really that impressive, and its design leaves many things to be desired.
>3715571
>What does that matter anyway, you want the ability to catch arrows out of the air?
Why not?
>In a 1992 game made for a system with a 3MHz CPU?
Is it so hard to believe? The more I talk with you guys the more it seems you've played just a fraction of what the SNES alone had to offer.
Metal Max already had a difference between projectiles and melee attack behaviour on the NES of all things, why is it so hard to believe that it couldn't be done on the SNES? You must have a low opinion of both the system and devs of the time.

[Anonymous No.3715643]

>>3715634
>Metal Max already had a difference between projectiles and melee attack behaviour on the NES of all things, why is it so hard to believe that it couldn't be done on the SNES?
It could
At the expense of all the other systems and improvements FFV have over Metal Max
I think you're the one deluded about what consoles could and couldn't do at the time here.

>>3715634
>First off, I never said FFV was crap
>shallow as a puddle
>no depth or replay value
>game for children and teenagers
>play better RPGs

yeah, you never used the word "crap", i stand corrected!.

[Anonymous No.3715687]

>>3715643
>At the expense of all the other systems and improvements FFV have over Metal Max
Like?
Metal Max also had an open world, non linearity and a nice tank system for its time, FFV is linear and doesn't even have much mechanical complexity compared to some of its peers on the SNES, even Romancing SaGa with all its problems had a way more complex and deeper system.
>i stand corrected!
Yes, there are better RPGs and it is a rather shallow game with little depth, but even shallow games can be a fun experience depending on the person, I personally don't like it all that but there are much better RPGs out there to play but again, it's no unsalvageable garbage like Surging Aura.

If a bit of candid criticism gets you so worked up you should stop coming to this place.

[Anonymous No.3715690]

>>3715634
Name a 1992 game on the SNES that allows you to do more different things than FFV.

[Anonymous No.3715693]

>>3715690
He just said Metal Max had "an open world"

This guy is legit out of his mind

[Anonymous No.3716569]

>>3713485
Ignore this retard, even the absolute worst jobs in FFV have a lot of things going for them. Thief has Chicken Knife, speed, and dash, Monk has the highest HP and is strong for the first half of the game, Berserker has great synergy with any magical class skill because of how the Rune Axe works, and Geomancer's !Gaia is amazing until the Rift if you have the magic stat to support it.

Now FF3, THAT'S a game where the majority of jobs are fucking useless, or even sometimes counterproductive.

[Anonymous No.3716571]

>>3715463
>that doesn't even support rudimentary mechanics like weapon type damage
Except it does, dumbass, different weapon types have different damage formulas. You would know this if you understood the game, but you don't.

[Anonymous No.3716647]

>>3715690
What are even those different things you're talking about?
Many of the battle commands alone are the same exact thing with different animations if you're lucky, and once you get out of the battle system there's nothing, no routes, no choice on anything, only five playable characters which all play the same and a world that bottlenecks you for most of the game and is literally the same in every playthrough.
What are those different things you talk about when other games had already implemented different races with their own unique growth systems, actual weapon damage modifiers, non linearity, vehicles, enemies on the world map with different movement patterns depending on races and so on.
Are you telling me that you consider a list of attack commands in which again, a lot of commands are the same exact thing, as different things? Especially when they work on the most braindead ruleset so even what little difference they might have it ends up vastly irrelevant? Vasting dozens of slot for the same exact attack or three tiers of spells which are the same exact thing with a slightly higher basic damage modifier is variety to you?

I'm sorry, I won't argue with delusional people who don't even know what actual variety or game design is, I've wasted enough time trying to discuss things peacefully but at this point it's evident you're just a mad fanboy who's defending a game out of brand loyalty and hurt feelings, I should have stopped arguing when you've pulled out the Fiesta as some kind of legit argument but admittedly, I've got too much hope in having some kind of decent discussion.
>>3716571
>Different ATK multipliers are a weapon damage formula
This thread gets better and better.
Now I understand the wave of anti JRPG shitposting when people have to deal with clueless and willfully ignorant people like in this thread.
And the cherry on top is that you have the balls to tell others they don't understand the game, truly rich.

[Anonymous No.3717429]

>>3716647
Axes ignore 3/4ths of Defense and have a random multiplier on their damage equal to anywhere from 0 to their weapon attack. Relative to swords, daggers have half the Strength multiplier on damage and instead have that half run off of a smaller multiplier on Agility, which is why they'll do more damage in the early game than swords will. Rods do a random amount of magic damage like axes and run off of magic entirely. Bells have varying damage formulas based on the bell in question and multiply their attack by anywhere from 1/2 to 3/2 for variance. Rune Axe and Rune Bell consume MP to add 10 attack power +(magic/128) to the damage formula.

You're also complaining about something not being in a JRPG that literally never happens in games that are not shooters or tactical sims like Jagged Alliance 2. Fuck off faggot, you're not just objectively wrong, you're whining for the sake of whining.

[Anonymous No.3717731]

>>3716647
You're not even arguing with the same person, i'm the one who pulled the Fiesta

Shows how delusional and clueless you are alright. The entire thread is calling your bullshit

>you get out of the battle system there's nothing, no routes, no choice on anything, only five playable characters which all play the same and a world that bottlenecks you for most of the game and is literally the same in every playthrough

The sad thing is that you probably believe the bullshit you say. This line stands out because playing the game shows how wrong you are, you can sequence break in each of the three worlds, it was the first to have side objectives and optional places for exploration and extra rewards like the legendary weapons and hidden summons, and holy shit you're actually using "only five playable characters@!!!!!" as a bad point in a game where that doesn't matter for shit because any character can be anything due to the job system. You're so retarded you probably must think Chrono Cross is the best game ever because so many playable characters in that one!!!!!!!!

Do the right thing and fuck off from this thread already. You hate FFV for some stupid reason, we all seen that already.