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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 449 KB, 188x138, ala.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3707650 No.3707650 [Reply] [Original]

Why was this so common on many Virgin platformers back in the day? I mean when you jump on a platform, and you just fell through it, as if the graphics didn't properly represent the actual level structure.
I also remember similar situations with Earthworm Jim (although Jim could hold on to ledges).

>> No.3707651

>>3707650
They weren't exactly generous with their hit boxes, also why EJW never seemed to be able to hit anything unless you were spaced just right

>> No.3707730

>>3707650
Because when they saw the graphics engine they said: Fuck the hit boxes

Robocop vs Terminator is awesome

>> No.3707735

>>3707730
>>3707651

But is there a reason why they didn't polish the hitboxes? The graphic engine they used didn't allow for it or what?

>> No.3707807

>>3707650
I was beating this game as a 6 year old.

It's great, you're being autistic and killing your own enjoyment.

>> No.3707823

>>3707650

I don't think you were quite on the ledge there

I mean part of you was, but not an amount that could realistically have stood on the platform

>> No.3707826

>>3707735
They probably tried to match the hitboxes to where his feet are in the animation instead of leaving it as a simple, mostly unchanging rectangle like most games.

>> No.3707829

I always just figured it had to do with the animation tricking you into think you're somewhere you're not.

>> No.3708064

>>3707650
Blame Dave Perry, he's responsible for that shit.

>> No.3708084
File: 111 KB, 640x480, aladdin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3708084

>>3707650
Obviously because Aladdin lost his footing and fell off to the left side. If both feet had landed on the platform, he wouldn't have gone through and below it.

>> No.3708109 [DELETED] 

>>3708084

Both of his feet land on the platform, he slips a bit out of it when he falls, but he obviously lands inside.

>> No.3708121
File: 26 KB, 184x139, aladdin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3708121

>>3708084

Both of his feet land on the platform, he slips a bit out of it when he falls, but he obviously lands inside.

>> No.3708145

>>3707807
He never said it was bad.

>> No.3708167

>>3708121
That frame you posted wasn't from the gif, though.

>> No.3708171

>>3708167

It's from the video the gif is from.

>> No.3708827

>>3707826
>>3707735
They needed to squeeze all the performance they could out of the game. Predictive AABB was expensive so they would usually just raycast straight down from the origin + half of the width/height of the character.

>> No.3708828

>>3708827
What does all of that even mean?

>> No.3708837

>>3708828
to check the hitbox of the character versus the hitbox of the platform requires one check of each point of the character's box versus each point of the platform's box, per platform/enemy/interactable/whatever in the scene or level
if they want to know if the character will collide with something NEXT frame then they gotta do it all again with an offset
if it hits something but goes too far into the platform and they gotta move the character to the point between his current point and his next/last point so they gotta do it all AGAIN

this gets expensive for early games (both taxing on the hardware and having to increase the amount of storage on the cartridge) so they took as many shortcuts as they can

another problem is that each frame of the jump animation got progressively taller but was still drawn from the origin of the object, so the feet of the character were actually below the hitbox

>> No.3710515

>>3708837

So basically, they spent more resources doing pretty animations rather than actual working physics?

>> No.3710789

>>3710515
WOAH MAN NOICE PHYSICS ENGINE IN YOUR RETRO GAME, ITS NOT LIKE THE BIT WARS WERE A THING AND GRAPHICS WERE THE MAIN SELLING POINT FOR CONSOLES AT THE TIME, NAH PEOPLE JUST CARED ABOUT THE PHYSICS ENGINE, HEY ANON WHATS YOUR FAVORITE /vr/ PHYSICS ENGINE?? MINE IS THE ONE IN THE LEGEND OF ZELDA

>> No.3710791

>>3710515
They took shortcuts to simplify the collision detection when working with pretty complicated animations and it produces some janky feeling results sometimes due to the discrepancy in animation versus how it's actually calcuating the collision.

Saying "they spent more resources being pretty than actual working physics" is kind of annoyingly reductive for what's going on there, it's actually pretty interesting how they worked in such constraints.

>> No.3710792

>>3710789
*rattles tits*

>> No.3710832
File: 34 KB, 600x600, df2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3710832

>>3710789

>> No.3710897

>>3707650
other platformers had this issue too. i got used to it and expected it. then more forgiving games threw me off.
also didn't that game have platforms that disappeared as soon as you landed on them?

>> No.3710903

>>3707650
You had to land on your feet, not on your fucking knee, to hit the platform.

Also, do running jumps, not standing ones.

I could figure that shit out when I was 5 years old, I don't understand why people complain about it.

>> No.3710908

>>3708171
>>3708121
>>3708084
The gif is at a low framerate and does not show the exact frame where the legs pass the ledge. The player just did not hit the platform with feet down, and then kept floating to the left from the momentum.

You have to hit the inside of the platform, not just 1 pixel of its side like in Mario.

There is no problem with this.

>> No.3710924

Virgin figured they could get away with shit physics and gameplay if the animations were flashy enough, and ta-tah, it turns out they were right and Segafags would gobble up any turd if you just thinly cover it in chocolate.

>> No.3710931

infogrammes was the fucking worst at this.
Plateforms not looking like plateforms and inversely, and that are 2pix wide at best.

>> No.3711392

>>3710903
>>3710908

Nice mental gymnastics, guys.

The game has collision detection issues, there's not much else to it. It's not game-breaking, but it's annoying and sketchy.

>> No.3711395

>>3710908

>like in Mario

And Wonder Boy, and Shinobi, and Castlevania, and Strider, and Contra, etc, etc

>> No.3711409

>>3711392
>It's not game-breaking, but it's annoying and sketchy.

Yeah, it requires you to pay attention and get good instead of just running through every level blindly.

>>3711395
>it doesn't play like my Japanese platformers and therefore it is bad

>> No.3711417

>>3711409

You're taking it too personal. Nobody is saying Aladdin is a bad game, but it doesn't have the tightest controls, it does have collision issues. I could finnish it as a kid, no problem.

>> No.3711421

>>3711392
>it's that one anon that always complains about hitboxes in western games

Instead of spending the time it takes to whine about hitboxes every day, actually learn where the hitboxes are so they stop being annoying for you?

>> No.3711429

>>3711421

>that one anon

huh? First time I'm discussing this on /vr/, or any board for that matter.

>actually learn where the hitboxes are

Again, I could beat the game as a kid, no problem. Still the issue is there.

Let people talk about fucking video games, anon, nobody is shitting on your childhood nostalgia.

Less whiny posts like this: >>3711409
>>3711421

And more informative posts like these: >>3708837

We can make /vr/ a better place together.

>> No.3711438

>>3711417
It doesn't have issues, it just uses a different convention that doesn't fit with your Mario hop and bop standards.

Try this. Go next to your bed, and try jumping on it. You'll most likely do it in a way so all of your feet is firmly on the bed. Now try doing it so only the tip of your toe touches the very side of the bed. You'll most likely fall of the side, because that much is not enough to balance your entire body, plus your feet might slip off as well.
If it was a Japanese platformer, you could stand firm on the air only because 1cm of the side of your leg is on the top of the bed.

That, and Aladdin has 2 types of jumps: a running jump with wider hitboxes (you land feet first and your momentum carries you onto the platform), and a standing jump which requires you to have all of your feet on the platform to stand stably on it.

Just because it doesn't play like (insert popular game here), doesn't make it automatically buggy.

>> No.3711442

>>3711438

Why do you keep mentioning Mario?

It's not all western games that do this, I just noticed it on Virgin's games, like EWJ, Lion King, Cool Spot, etc.

>> No.3711447

>>3707650
All I see in this gif is them clearly missing the platform.

>> No.3711451

>>3708837
This is not correct though. They just check if hitboxes collide once a frame, and draw the next one accordingly. They don't need to make adaptive predictions, because they first move characters according to input, then check hitboxes, then decide what animation phase to draw and where, then finally draw the frame.

The shortcut that many games took was allowing you to stand on the platform even if your sprite is only 1 pixel into the collision box of the platform.

Aladdin and Earthworm Jim has a smaller, thinner hitbox that matches the graphics closer. It covers the feet of your character, not the entire body in a rectangular pattern.

>> No.3711470

>>3711451
>Aladdin and Earthworm Jim has a smaller, thinner hitbox that matches the graphics closer. It covers the feet of your character, not the entire body in a rectangular pattern.

Got any source to back this up?

To me it seems more like it's not a problem with the character sprite's hitbox, but more about the actual hitbox of the platform itself, could be wrong but I don't know how to check hitboxes.

>> No.3711484

>>3707807
Reading comprehension much?

>> No.3713704

I had similar issues playing Aero the crobat and Zero the kamikaze squirrel.

>> No.3713734

>>3711470
>Got any source to back this up?

Hm, that was just from memory. But I checked it now and it indeed seems that the platform has a hitbox shorter than its graphics. In practice it does come down into the same "hit the platform properly, not just its edge" tactic, though. You can't get away with only hitting 1 pixel of its side.

And neatly enough, the graphics are lined up so that if you touch the platform with the bottom leg, you'll surely manage to land on it. That's probably why I thought it works like that. But you also fall off early if you simply stand on it.

I'm sure the only reason they did this is to prevent the situation where one of your leg is still on the platform, but the other is standing in thin air. So it's not a bad thing.

Earthworm Jim fixed this gameplay "problem" by giving you an ability to grab onto ledges.