/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3694774]

This game is a masterpiece. What went so right?

[Anonymous No.3694781]

>>3694774
>What went so right?

The whole game was the idea of Santa's little elf helpers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN2kXqUrkhk

[Anonymous No.3694789]

>incomplete game with the last half of the game sold as paid DLC

[Anonymous No.3694790]

>>3694781
they might have done it but theyre still fucking midgets. I would rather be a poor normal heighted person than a rich midget.

[Anonymous No.3694812]

>>3694789
>incomplete game
Ehh I'd say it's a lot more like one of those episodic sagas that are done every now and then

[Anonymous No.3694836]

>>3694789

This.

Both Sonic 3 and &K were a bit disappointing after the epic Sonic 2.

I think the problem with Sonic 3 & Knuckles is that the levels just seem to go on and on, and in some zones this becomes tedious, like Garden Marble, Carnival or Sandopolis act 2.
People complain about Metropolis in Sonic 2 for having 3 acts, but with just 2 acts, some zones in S3 manage to be worse than Metropolis.
Music also felt a bit disappointing after the soundtracks by Nakamura from 1 and 2, most of it is good, but I don't know if Angel Island is up to stardard for being a first zone hit track, same with Mushroom Hill, they're just okay but you can't really say they're as memorable as GHZ or EHZ.
I mean the soundtrack is fine, but it takes some time until it grows on you, and I'm still not a big fan of stuff like Carnival Zone or Launch Base. Also that fucking bonus music man, it's terrible, especially the one from Sonic & Knuckles, I don't want to go to the bonus stage because of the music, it's annoying, and you might enter into bonus stages accidentally a lot.

I'll say the competition VS music from Sonic 3 is a lot better than the main soundtrack. The only zone track that's among my favorite Sonic music ever, like top 10, is Hydrocity, that's just perfect.

It's still a masterpiece though, the last one from the Sonic franchise, but I still like 1 and 2 the best. Especially 1. I don't need no spindash to go fast.

[Anonymous No.3694843]

>>3694774
>What went so right?

-Addition of Knuckles
-late in Gen's lifespan so graphics were great
-overall had the best bosses of all the Sonic games
-lock on tech was baller even tho it was a gimmick
-fantastic final space boss battle with Sonic flying off into the sunset with tails and Sega ending the series on a high note never to make another Sonic game again.... ;_;

[Anonymous No.3694878]

>>3694774

It's because of this guy.

[Anonymous No.3694889]

>>3694878

>he worked on Uncharted 1 as level designer
>Uncharted has barely any level design

[Anonymous No.3694950]

>>3694774
>has an explorative aspect to it without being poorly designed like Sonic CD
>not only has great boss fights, but also midbosses after every act
>Knuckles has different routes and bosses from Sonic/Tails
>best music in the franchise thanks to MJ

[Anonymous No.3694962]

>>3694950
>has an explorative aspect to it without being poorly designed like Sonic CD

3&K is full of poor design choices though

>Knuckles has different routes and bosses from Sonic/Tails

This is cool, but it only happens a few times, most of the bosses are the same, only real difference is that robotnik is replaced by a robo-robotnik with Knuckles (I think there's still a glitch somewhere that makes Robotnik appear instead of his robot).

>best music in the franchise thanks to MJ

The Dreams Comes True guy from 1 and 2 wrote most of the most iconic music in the franchise though.

[Anonymous No.3694970]

>>3694962
>3&K is full of poor design choices though
like? it has some annoying setpieces in a few zones, but the level design is well constructed

[Anonymous No.3694973]

>>3694970
maybe not "full of", but it's not perfect either. Mushroom hill has a lot of redundant, irrelevant paths for the sole purpose of hiding bonus rings, it feels more like a blue sphere hub than a real zone, Sonic CD did exploration much better than this.

[Anonymous No.3694974]

How I would rank the Sonic games I have played:
Sonic The Hedgehog>Sonic CD>Sonic 2>Sonic Adventure>Sonic 3>& Knuckles>Sonic 3 & Knuckles

This is how the ranking goes when you've already played them all and you don't have much time to replay games anymore. StH is the only one I ever have the feeling of wanting to play again.

No, maybe Sonic 2 is better even if I don't want to play it. Sonic 2 might be the best.

[Anonymous No.3694982]

>>3694970
>it has some annoying setpieces in a few zones
in almost all of them actually. There's like what, flying battery zone? all the others have dumb gimmicks, there are no real jut straight up designed game levels that work just with the character's abilities and known game objects.

[Anonymous No.3694983]

>>3694974

Pretty similar to mine, it would be:

Sonic 1>Sonic 2>Sonic CD>3&K>Sonic & Knuckcles>Sonic 3

I wouldn't place the adventure games in the same category, but SA2B>SA1, not a big fan of them though

[Anonymous No.3694986]

If I wanted to just explore I'd play Sonic CD

If I wanted to just have fun and go fast I'd play Sonic 2

If I just want to play through the game and get to the end and unwind, that's Sonic the Hedgehog

If I had pure turbo autism I'd play Bubsy, but I'd also enjoy S3&K

[Anonymous No.3695012]

>>3694982
I can only think of the tops in MG, the barrels in CN, and the pulleys in MH. Rest of the zones are gimmick-free.

[Anonymous No.3695043]

>>3695012
The snow board, the ziplines, the flip up platforms that you dash into, the ring lines that you fly through, the stupid water tunnels you get flushed through, that idiotic sandslide maze

You're basically left with Angel Island, Flying Battery, Lava Reef, and Sky Sanctuary.

Less than half of the levels are good.

[Anonymous No.3695047]

>>3694982

>desperately grasping at straws

[Anonymous No.3695061]

>>3695047
I think I'll need an actual refutation

[Anonymous No.3695085]

>>3695043
>The snow board
I dunno, I thought that part was pretty cool.

>the ziplines
In Sandopolis? Completely skippable.

>the flip up platforms that you dash into
They work like the gears in Sonic 2. Not that annoying.

>the ring lines that you fly through
Most of them can be skipped.

>the stupid water tunnels you get flushed through,
They're more interactive than, for example, the pipes in Chemical Plant.

>that idiotic sandslide maze
Work on your short term memory mate, that was easy to figure out.


Anyway, most of these are just nit-picks at best. The game is still super fun.

[Anonymous No.3695093]

>>3695085
>>3695043

The snowboard is just a cutscene.

[Anonymous No.3695210]

>>3695093
>The snowboard is just a cutscene.
you can jump tho

also thats my main criticism of all these things. they're cutscenes instead of actual games

[Anonymous No.3695217]

>>3694774
It featured Knuckles from the Sonic the Hedgehog series.

[Anonymous No.3695229]

>>3694790
At least a rich midget can get laid, unlike you.

[Anonymous No.3695273]

>>3694774
What game is this?

[Anonymous No.3695285]

>>3695273

Ruffle the Dog 2

[Anonymous No.3695336]

>>3695273
Pog Runner

[Anonymous No.3695365]

>>3695273
Zippy the Porcupine: Tournament Edition

[Anonymous No.3695370]

>>3695273
High Seas Havoc.

[Anonymous No.3695417]

>>3695273
Ikaruga

[Anonymous No.3695418]

>>3695273
Jazz Jackrabbit 2, I believe.

[Anonymous No.3695445]

>try S3&K again today
>it's still a mess of gotcha springs, trying to encourage exploration with level design and mechanics that make exploration a pain, and marble garden and carnival night still exist
>good music though
>except in carnival night

I'm not a fan. Every time I try to play S3&K I get fed up with it before I get to the &K part. Maybe I should just skip to that.

[Anonymous No.3695503]

That was the first Genesis Sonic I got(played master system versions first, 1 and 2 gen). But when I played 3 and played both games together it was the point S3&K would turn to be my most played game ever. So yes, it is my fav, but Sonic CD Remake really got near that in a different way.

>>3694836
>shitting on Marble Garden and Carnival Night
>2 of the stages with the most alternative paths and shortcuts from that game and probably from all the 4 classics
>he doesn't know about those paths
>he probably ends act 2 of Carnival Night at 6-8 minutes after all these years
Mother of god.
Sandopolis act 2 is boring because of that mandatory sand section.

>>3695043
>ziplines
Don't use them, you can jump over them, fall down, spindash and rush your, but for some reason you don't seem to take advantage of Sonic's abilities and the shortcurts and paths
The snowboard? Sure, but is short as hell. If people complain about that then they should complain about the mandatory flying level in Sonic 2 where you can't skip and you will always waste 2 minutes on that

Oh, and guess what? You can spindash or push some set of spikes in Angel Island or Flying Battery to get some paths or hidden shit. I hope you got your mind blowed

[Anonymous No.3695546]

>>3694774
No water levels.

[Anonymous No.3695583]

>>3694973
>>3694973
>>>3694970
> Mushroom hill has a lot of redundant, irrelevant paths for the sole purpose of hiding bonus rings, it feels more like a blue sphere hub than a real zone

Given that S&K was also a stand-alone game without battery for saving the progress, having around 7 big rings in the first zone allowed players to collect all emeralds early, and enjoy the rest of the game in Super form.

[Anonymous No.3695590]

>>3694774
Knuckles lets you Go FAAAST and not die, largely correcting the core mechanical dissonance of the Sonic games.

[Anonymous No.3695618]

>>3694789
I could pound through a Sonic game in roughly 35-40 minutes these days, without loss of life at that, but when I was a kid, these games were hard as dick to me, at least until I reached some of the later stages. I was starting to get good before I got rid of my Sega, but I never did quite beat them until I had the various games on the PC via Smash Pack and S&K collection.

I also know a few people who are fantastic with literally everything else but Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, like bullet hell shmups, and Contra, so as far as I'm concerned, I got my money's worth out of both of these games with the sheer amount of entertainment I had just trying to reach the end of the game the first 12 times or so.

[Anonymous No.3695619]

>>3695590
>Auto racing is fundamentally flawed
>I mean, you're supposed to go FAST, right?
>But there's all these curves that kill you if you go fast through them
>Such bad design

[Anonymous No.3695631]

>>3695619
This is why arcade racers > sim racers

[Anonymous No.3695643]

>>3695445
UPDATE: I played through all of S3&K tonight. I got all the super emeralds. I would say about half of it is good.

[Anonymous No.3695707]

>>3695619
Yes, this is a totally perfect analogy. Sonic has always been about physically accurate simulation of a supersonic hedgehog first, kiddy "platformer" second.

[Anonymous No.3695851]

>>3695503
>Mother of god.

calm down, anon.

Yeah I know about the shortcuts, the hidden bonus rings and all that. They're still boring levels with clusterfucky level design, I sure love riding the spinning platforms on Marble Garden or bouncing on the bumpers back and forth in all these hallways on Carnival.

[Anonymous No.3695882]

>>3695273
Benji:The Hunted

[Anonymous No.3695937]

>>3695631
I agree. Give me Ridge Racer or F Zero over Gran Turismo or basically any F1 game ever.
>one wheel touches the grass on lap 2
>may as well give up already - you've already lost

[Anonymous No.3695963]

>>3695937
>any F1 game ever.

You're forgetting about the one great F1 arcade racer.

[Anonymous No.3696375]

>>3695963
I haven't played that one.

[Anonymous No.3696434]

>>3695851
>clusterfucky
Better than constant dead-end paths like Sonic CD, I guess.

But CD and 3&K were really the beginning of the end for Sonic games.

[Anonymous No.3696440]

>>3696434
>the beginning of the end for Sonic games.
Surely that was as soon as they went 3D.

[Anonymous No.3696456]

>>3696440
That was the end of Sanic.

[Anonymous No.3696465]

>>3696456
The whole franchise was basically just a tech demo for Blayst Processing anyway. It had nothing to show off after the MD's decline. It was just... lost and purposeless.

[Anonymous No.3696487]

>>3696465
>It was just... lost and purposeless.
That's honestly how I felt for Mario as well after Mario 64 debuted. I felt that as soon as both mascot reached the realm of 3D everything just got blander. Thankfully the Playstation came in time and all.

[Anonymous No.3696530]

>>3694986
Underrated post

[Anonymous No.3697625]

>>3695546
Literally the second level.

[Anonymous No.3697660]

>>3697625

Flying Battery Zone?

[Anonymous No.3697741]

>>3694774
S3:
> cutscene after cutscene
> kinda weird level design, if you don't know the secret pathways you'll be stuck with a rather weird game
> not that many unique enemies/obstacles

S&K:
> Very few cutscenes
> Incredibly complex, varied level design
> tons of obstacles/enemies which feel interesting and unique

[Anonymous No.3697761]

>>3697741
>3-5 second animations after boss fights
>"cutscene after cutscene"

[Anonymous No.3697763]

>>3694774
it's pretty lame and other platformers of the time far outperformed it, let alone the plethora of games we have now

[Anonymous No.3697770]

>>3697761
A big chunk of the time you spend on Act 1 is pretty much an unskippable cutscene. I count the idiotic autoscrolling segment with bombs too. See >>3695210.

[Anonymous No.3699325]

>>3695273
&Knuckles

[Anonymous No.3699341]

Fuck Sonic

[Anonymous No.3699617]

>>3699341
I'd rather fuck tails desu.

[Anonymous No.3699759]

>>3697763
>games we have now
not retro >>>/v/

[Anonymous No.3699762]

>>3699759
FUCK OFF

[Anonymous No.3699821]

>>3697763
I want to see this plethora of platformers we had in the last 20 years.

[Anonymous No.3701678]

>>3694836
>MG
>tedious

[Anonymous No.3701734]

>>3694950
this image is quality, does donald like SEGA or videogames?

[Anonymous No.3702358]

>>3694790
I'm glad you can pretend your superior to someone.

[Anonymous No.3702420]

>>3701678

Marble Garden is tedious. The spin platforms are not fun to use and feel sketchy, and they're mandatory to get through certain areas, several times.
The purple faces on the wall that need to be hit 3 times in the eye to open the path are tedious, you have to wait until their hitbox stops blinking. As well as other little details like having to spindash in those wheel things in order for new platforms to appear and get through, etc, etc.

[Anonymous No.3702459]

>>3695445
"Gotcha springs?"
is this a CNZ complaint, because that's the only stage I can think of where it'd apply
my biggest issues with S3 are that >>3701678
CNZ2 is fucking long and poorly laid out, and then Marble Garden has those huge-ass off-screen spike balls, and the boss is entirely retarded if you decided to pick Tails alone for whatever reason

I'm generally going to say that the S&K half is overall better, but I replayed S3 alone in one go (and it's solidly long, seemed to be a tad shorter than S2) just to see how that game on its own merits and it's not bad.
S&K's biggest issue is Sandopolis 2 being king of annoying. And only kind of, it's much less annoying than I remembered.

>>3695043
>anything unique item in a stage can fuck off
people like this are retarded
the sandslide maze is kind of boring, and the DEZ ring lanes take too long for no reason, and that's it

>>3697770
>I count the idiotic autoscrolling segment with bombs
ah man, fuck this bit -- it was cool the first time
and only the first time

>>3695619
People are stupid and don't know about speed control.
These are the sort of people who will crash on the last corner in Big Forest in Virtua Racing or on the Sonic mountain corner in Daytona USA every single time without any hope of getting better.

[Anonymous No.3702486]

>>3702459
>People are stupid and don't know about speed control.
I remember when I played GTA5 and I kept feeling like a noob every time I won using balanced adjustments and speed control instead of tweaking my vehicle to take the corners at the right arc when drifting, but doing those tweaks just to get a better result always took like an hour or more

it's cause of stuff like this that my favorite racing game is outrun

[Anonymous No.3702489]

>>3702459
>>anything unique item in a stage can fuck off
>people like this are retarded
>the sandslide maze is kind of boring, and the DEZ ring lanes take too long for no reason, and that's it
your wife is fat and has an unpleasant personality because of your undiscerning tastes and low expectations

[Anonymous No.3702492]

>>3694781
VONKHAR!

[Anonymous No.3702529]

>>3702459
>and the boss is entirely retarded if you decided to pick Tails alone for whatever reason

??? you can just attack it from below. When Tails is flying, his helicopter rotor does damage.

[Anonymous No.3702531]

>>3702529
Well, DUH.