This is the ultimate official DOOM wad. >dat difficulty >dat space base A E S T H E T I C >giant maps >night maps Doom 2 might be the more polished overall package, but TNT takes it to another level with only a few misteps because no Romero.

File: 11 KB, 300x225, TNTevilution.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Thu Dec 22 01:11:39 2016 No.3691919 [Reply] [Original]

This is the ultimate official DOOM wad.

>dat difficulty
>dat space base A E S T H E T I C
>giant maps
>night maps

Doom 2 might be the more polished overall package, but TNT takes it to another level with only a few misteps because no Romero.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 08:42:19 2016 No.3692334 >>3691919 I unironically love T.N.T more than any of the other officials

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 09:11:39 2016 No.3692357 >>3691919 Plutonia > Doom 2 >TNT

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 09:27:00 2016 No.3692370 tnt is pretty great more memorable maps than plutonia best soundtrack too

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 09:34:15 2016 No.3692378 >chaingunners

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 11:35:15 2016 No.3692492 >>3691919 >doom 2 >polished

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 11:56:20 2016 No.3692507 >>3692492 This, Doom 2 has some good levels, but many seem thrown together quickly. Doom 1's level design is way better.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 14:30:01 2016 No.3692754 >>3691919 Map 14 of TNT is my favorite Doom level and Doom MIDI ever

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 15:11:49 2016 No.3692821 >>3691919 second half of the level design takes a nose dive plutonia is infinitely better nrftl is the shortest and sweetest but loses to plutonia simply due to its size also keep this in the babby general

Anonymous Thu Dec 22 15:31:13 2016 No.3692852

>>3692821
>second half of the level design takes a nose dive

I disagree completely. Only bad map in the second half was map22. Map27 also had that sewer section, but rest of it was fine. The hell levels in TNT were infinitely better than any of Doom 1 and 2's hell levels.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 15:32:53 2016 No.3692857 >>3692357 >Doom 2 above TNT fuck no.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 15:34:51 2016 No.3692859 I feel like Memento Mori would've been a better fit for iwad status. TNT still good, though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 22 23:44:35 2016 No.3693589 The soundtrack was pretty damn great

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 23 08:51:49 2016 No.3694137 >>3693589 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1xj-D7x4kg

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 23 12:58:48 2016 No.3694396 >>3692857 >Not ">Plutonia above anything" I'm disappointed

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 23 21:30:04 2016 No.3695191 >>3694396 Plutonia is great fun, though. Some of the most exciting levels in an iwad. I can admit that it goes a bit overboard with the browns and greys, though.

Anonymous Sat Dec 24 11:10:23 2016 No.3695951

>>3694396
>>3695191
I don't really understand the people who hate Plutonia. Its harder than Doom 2 and TNT, but its still generally pretty manageable if you're experienced enough. I'd even argue that it has the tightest balance out of all the official games.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 11:47:38 2016 No.3696013 What is the most meme level in the Doom series?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 12:00:13 2016 No.3696059 >>3695951 doom babbies can't understand plutonia and its depth of gameplay. they're simply too retarded play it adequately. it's well beyond their limited gameplay capabilities.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 24 14:54:20 2016 No.3696563 >>3696013 E4M2

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 01:51:48 2016 No.3697668 >>3696013 >meme level Plutonia map32. It's a favourite but if I were to misuse the word 'meme' that's the level I'd misuse it for.

Anonymous Sun Dec 25 03:05:23 2016 No.3697746

>>3695951

I'll explain why.

Plutonia is boring with set design. All the levels are brown or washed out color schemes without much variety.

Plutonia has the least amount of enemy variety. There are almost no Pinky demons in all 32 levels. It's just the same thing every level with no variety.

Plutonia relies on so many traps for difficulty.

>enter room
>trigger something
>OMG dozens of enemies all around
>kill them all, now barely alive
>something else triggers in the room
>ARCHVILLE appears!

Literally this thing happens multiple times a level for the WHOLE fucking game. There are so many traps that make the game impossible to play without saving all the time because unlike DOOM 2 you can't play it and just be good enough to survive. Shit like this will kill you all the time.

With that being said there are some good levels in it, and it's worth playing, but it's brutal to play the first time on Ultra Violence.

Anonymous Sun Dec 25 06:47:56 2016 No.3697935

>>3697746
>unlike DOOM 2 you can't play it and just be good enough to survive

dont you think it has something to do with the fact that you already know every doom 2 level by heart.

yeah, you die a few times per level in plutonia but thats part of the challenge.
do you expect to rush through the game on uv without actually dying? dunno about you but I enjoyed dying and I played through plutonia/uv without quicksave. that was the whole reason of plutonia, to provide a new challenge for people who already finished doom 2.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 14:39:28 2016 No.3698408 >>3697935 >dont you think it has something to do with the fact that you already know every doom 2 level by heart. Not that guy but definitely not. I only played DOOM II and Final Doom quite recently.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 25 22:50:11 2016 No.3699146 >>3692378 I remember quitting TNT a little over halfway through because I couldn't stand all the fucking chaingunners. That one map that was nothing but hitscan enemies was the worst.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 26 02:07:20 2016 No.3699352 >>3697746 >>enter room >>trigger something >>OMG dozens of enemies all around >>kill them all, now barely alive >>something else triggers in the room >>ARCHVILLE appears! That sounds more like something out of Sunlust, not Plutonia.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 26 22:14:38 2016 No.3700624 >>3697746 >There are almost no Pinky demons in all 32 levels. More than half the levels use them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 03:55:17 2016 No.3701130 Plutonia is more consistently fun, but TNT is still great. Definitely better than Doom 2 itself.

Anonymous Tue Dec 27 09:21:10 2016 No.3701503

>>3697746
>Plutonia has the least amount of enemy variety. There are almost no Pinky demons in all 32 levels. It's just the same thing every level with no variety.

You have to take into account that Plutonia's average level size is generally smaller than the other iwads (only 1/3 of the maps even exceed 100 monsters, compared to Doom 2 where the majority do). And because its intended for people who want something harder than doom 2, It focuses more on higher tier monsters.

>There are so many traps that make the game impossible to play without saving all the time
>because unlike DOOM 2 you can't play it and just be good enough to survive.

Plenty of people are perfectly capable of dealing with those kinds of traps without having to resort to savescumming.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 10:55:15 2016 No.3701626 File: 2.74 MB, 2997x2000, Why_am_I_losing_health.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 18:20:10 2016 No.3702476 The person who made TNT has a weird chaingunner fetish which I find distasteful.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 19:12:29 2016 No.3702573 >>3702476 Who doesn't love bullshit hitscanners?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 19:36:46 2016 No.3702610 >>3702476 TNT was made by a big team of people. Not one person.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 19:52:52 2016 No.3702647 TNT wasn't just liberal with chaingunners. It has a lot more shotgunners.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 27 20:01:08 2016 No.3702667 >>3701626 I lol'd.

Anonymous Wed Dec 28 00:11:32 2016 No.3703098
File: 1.97 MB, 919x1500, 1395816584079.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3701626
not pictured: trap door on right cliff wall hiding eight chaingunners

TNT has the worst room in all of the official releases, in Map08 I think. When you open a door and it turns out you're at the top of a giant staircase with hitscan enemies on balconies at the far end of the room. It's basically impossible without the blur sphere, and then you have to go through this monotonous climb to the top.

Plutonia was more fun while being more difficult. Better in every aspect imo

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 04:08:14 2016 No.3703330 >>3703098 Even by TNT fans, Map08 is generally agreed as being a shit map.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 04:52:55 2016 No.3703368 >>3703098 It has the same gimmick in 05 and in some other places.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 05:11:48 2016 No.3703380 I still think "Evilution" is a cool name for something.

Anonymous Wed Dec 28 05:27:21 2016 No.3703395

>>3703098
>>3703368
I just opened them both and played them.

I can see the issue in 08 but it seems there's some cover at least on 05.

Distant hitscanners I think are alright if you've got something to hide behind....but they can't do much damage on their own at a distance and the player can usually silence them with rockets.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 08:36:43 2016 No.3703538 >>3703330 This. Metal alongside Habitat are the bad maps. It pains me when people try to use them as representative for the whole iwad's quality, when they're really just outliers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 08:46:08 2016 No.3703548 >>3692507 Doom 2 feels like one of those games were the shareware version alone is really good but the rest of the final release levels are very underwhelming.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 08:47:17 2016 No.3703549 >>3703548 Kinda interesting feeling, when Doom 2 never had a shareware.

Anonymous Wed Dec 28 08:59:04 2016 No.3703559

>>3703548
Well, level-design felt rushed, gimmicky an incoherent.
Crusher and map with cybie vs. brains felt concept-first coherence-last. What the fuck was Tricks and Traps supposed to be location-wise. And lot of maps looks horrible visually.
Doom was superior in this regard, having good sense of progression.

Only good thing about Doom 2 is that it completes vertical design for monsters and sort for weapons, even though SSG is OP.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 11:01:41 2016 No.3703684 >>3702647 the chaingunners were very apparent whenever they showed up. Like central processing and administration center

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 13:09:13 2016 No.3703889 >>3703548 >>3703559 I got lost in most of the later levels and had to keep aimlessly walking through the map until I found where I was supposed to be going. The later half of Doom II is pure garbage.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 22:18:01 2016 No.3704843 >>3703889 >The later half of Doom II is pure garbage. I like maps 17-20, 22, 26, 27, and 29.

Anonymous Wed Dec 28 23:12:51 2016 No.3704913
File: 47 KB, 300x211, 300px-Final_Doom_TNT_map_22[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3691919
I'm currently playing through TNT for the first time, and I'm really loving it. It has such a dark, eerie mood to it, in a much more overt way compared to the previous titles.

Tell me, am I a Doom pleb? I've played through Doom I, Doom II, I just beat Habitat on Evilution, and there has still not been a single map that I've disliked. Yes, even Metal and Habitat. They're definitely significantly below average compared to all the maps I've played up till this point, but the way some people talk about these maps, it sounds akin to pulling teeth. I don't know, I just find them enjoyable. I love Doom, so I find enjoyment even in sup-par maps.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 23:21:49 2016 No.3704919 >>3704913 In the case of Habitat, most of its hate mainly stems from it being bland. Its basically just a tunnel system with a couple open outdoor areas. Nothing truly standsout.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 23:34:06 2016 No.3704930 I read that as "dad" difficulty and now I want to see that as an option in a game.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 23:34:45 2016 No.3704931 I like the soundtrack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riFo0xd6jG8

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 28 23:52:27 2016 No.3704953 >>3704913 >Tell me, am I a Doom pleb? You're on this board and asking so most definitely. At least you're a slight step above reddit, but you should still probably go back and meme there like you really want to, along with all the other doom babbies.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:01:17 2016 No.3704968 Why is this a separate thread from the Doom General? Use your eyes folks.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:10:44 2016 No.3704981 File: 97 KB, 318x355, 1373404504379.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3704931 This is reminding me about how hard it is to find the doom games' osts on youtube without them having shitty fucking soundfonts and remasters.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:39:26 2016 No.3705013 >>3704913 >am I a Doom pleb? That depends on what port you are using to play. That screenshot doesn't look too vanilla friendly to me, so I'm afraid I am going to have to assume that you are a pleb. Sorry, you brought it on yourself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 00:46:16 2016 No.3705025 >>3705013 That screenshots taken from inside DoomBuilder 2, an editor.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 04:06:53 2016 No.3705201 >>3705025 Only plebs use doom builder 2. Real doomers use DEU or DETH.

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 05:51:24 2016 No.3705304

>>3691919
>Makes claim about Ultimate Doom wad
>Doesn't actually name the actual Ultimate Doom wad containing episode 4, thy flesh consumed
>Instead spouts some shit about a fan made megawad that is utter garbage compared to modern megawad projects.

It's like you don't know what you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 06:58:50 2016 No.3705364 >>3701626 kok

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 09:01:03 2016 No.3705498 >>3705304 >>that is utter garbage compared to modern megawad projects. Not op, but some people still appreciate the wads of the 90's. Personally, I find modern megawads are too overproduced, and lack a soul.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 09:22:58 2016 No.3705524 >>3705498 Lost souls are shit though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 16:50:34 2016 No.3706145 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t1cLsD7xuQ

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 21:31:40 2016 No.3706631 >>3704931 >>3706145 As do I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK4juz0fdjY

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 21:34:12 2016 No.3706635 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f3YTsMkeoE The egypt map is pretty neat, shame it's also unfinishable without a patch

Anonymous Thu Dec 29 21:38:44 2016 No.3706643

>>3706635
IIRC, ZDoom and GZDoom actually have a check that unsets the yellow key as multiplayer only.

Still need the patch when using prboom+ or chocolate doom. Though the level technically is finishable without it, but it involves skipping most of the level.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 21:44:17 2016 No.3706649 >>3706643 Unless it was a new version of zdoom that fixed, not in my experience

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 23:06:18 2016 No.3706730 >>3706649 What version are you using? I'm fairly certain the dev builds implemented this years ago.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 29 23:26:29 2016 No.3706746 >>3706730 The one I was using was something probably from around 2013. I haven't replayed the map on my present zdoom dl, which was november.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 30 21:02:40 2016 No.3708350 >>3705304 >fan made megawad that is utter garbage compared to modern megawad projects. I really can't stand people like you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 31 22:18:58 2016 No.3710174 I do not like a single release from TeamTNT.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 03:51:12 2017 No.3710560 >>3710174 I prefer TiC's stuff, but I still liked TeamTNT's wads.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 23:16:28 2017 No.3712097 >>3710174 not even Boom?

Anonymous Sun Jan 1 23:25:09 2017 No.3712106

"Polished" is such a meaningless term.
>>3696563
E4M2 is really neat if you don't use that stupid glitch that gets you the BFG early. It felt cool when I figured out how to deal with the Cacodemons at the beginning by just sitting on the platform you started on and using the level's layout to effectively crowd-control.
>>3703548
>>3703559
>>3692507
>>3692492
Doom 2 had some really stupid design decisions but when it's good I think it's REALLY good. Some of the more open levels with a fuckton of enemies were great.

I think the biggest issue is that it had too many I Wanna Be The Guy-tier bullshit death traps. It was basically the devs' way of telling me "you're supposed to save during levels" which I didn't like because I would have liked to be able to avoid that as a self imposed harder mode.

Anonymous Sun Jan 1 23:27:31 2017 No.3712109

>>3712106
Oh another thing I REALLY loved in E4M2 was the circular area where you fought multiple Barons - it was once again a clever use of the game's deceivingly simple mechanics and figuring out how to deal with it, once again, felt really cool and satisfying.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 23:54:55 2017 No.3712136 >>3712106 >I think the biggest issue is that it had too many I Wanna Be The Guy-tier bullshit death traps. What? Doom 2 was nowhere near that bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 1 23:56:29 2017 No.3712137 >>3712136 I didn't memorize the names of the maps where it happened so I sadly can't elaborate; sorry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 00:03:49 2017 No.3712146 >>3712137 use the wiki then

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 00:06:40 2017 No.3712149 >>3712146 I can't be fucked. There were just a bunch of moments where you either got teleported in a room full of enemies or enemies got teleported around you in an unpredictable way.

Anonymous Mon Jan 2 04:16:33 2017 No.3712426

>>3712106
>I think the biggest issue is that it had too many I Wanna Be The Guy-tier bullshit death traps. It was basically the devs' way of telling me "you're supposed to save during levels"

Not often that I see someone complain about the difficulty of Doom 2 itself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 06:45:37 2017 No.3712582 >>3712136 The exit in Tricks and Traps for sure, and possibly the thin catwalks in Chasm into a toxic pit you cannot escape from.

Anonymous Mon Jan 2 07:53:16 2017 No.3712659

>>3712582
I still wouldn't put those at "I Wanna Be The Guy" levels. Shit in that game is bullshit to the point of being unable to even see the trap until its too late

Inescapable pits in Doom can be annoying, but you can usually see that you're not meant to go in them. Tricks and Traps exit isn't even that hard to get through, and the level is short enough (provided you know where the baron/cyber room door is), that it shouldn't ruin your "death = pistol start" rule. The only inescapable pit in Chasm is the one in the exit area, which the catwalks in that room arent even thin. I will agree that it shouldn't have been made inescapable, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 2 08:01:40 2017 No.3712663 >>3712659 You should see some of the IWBTG fangames. Some of them know what you're gonna do before you do it and you end up having to dodge 3 traps in succession.

Anonymous Mon Jan 2 18:24:49 2017 No.3713518

Higher tier monsters aren`t really more difficult, they are just more punishing. There are more powerups and weapons to fight these monsters in plutonia, and there`s always an escape route or way that you can infight. The only map that isn't fair is The Twilight, fuck that map, you have to practically speed-run it to survive it.

Making secret levels "Go 2 it' difficulty level is one of the ways to keep them interesting, BTSX E2 is one example.

Anonymous Mon Jan 2 21:39:32 2017 No.3713835

>>3713518
The Twilight's main challenge is from the fact that its chaingunner snipers everywhere (some of which are protected by arch-vile pillars), with cover being awkward due to pits and cramped hallways with revenants/knights. Very much a tough level.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 16:21:59 2017 No.3715392 Anon playing this with PSX Doom?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:41:33 2017 No.3716515 >>3691919 Yeah, TNT is underrated.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 15:52:08 2017 No.3717463 Is there a way to always load the wads with fast monsters? gzdoom-USER.ini? autoexec.cfg?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:29:27 2017 No.3717784

>>3691919

Thing I remember, not sure if it was tnt or plutonia but Map 20 - Mill (several floating platforms at start with weapons on em you cant reach)

One of my fave maps of all time. Its a rather sizeable level. And like most Map20s its a bastard of a level with a Cyber climax.

The Mill? oh its just these little things in this one room that may be stamping license plates or something.

>>3704981
this

its SO easy to get it played right through basic Zdoom, at least these days

but even before that you could have put it on play with vanilla in DosBox and it would have played like the original.

Windows really fucked things over a half ton when it came to sound. And their fucked up way of representing 8bit graphics natively reminded me of mustard(gas).

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:54:37 2017 No.3718070 >>3717784 Pretty sure that was map18.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:52:43 2017 No.3718256

>>3717463
Just start them with -fast on the command-line.
Make a batch file if you're too lazy to type -fast every time.

Literally only needs to contain:
>port-of-choice.exe -fast -skill 4 -warp 1 %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %9

You can load up to 9 wads with that bat. You can even do your lazy arse drag 'n drop the wads onto the file icon rather than running the bat from the command line.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:55:18 2017 No.3718261 >>3718256 >9 wads Or 8, 'cause I fucked up. Point is the more variables you add to the bat the more wads you can load with a simlpe drag & drop.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 16:18:49 2017 No.3719659 >>3718256 >>3718261 what exactly does the % switch do? if its for loading wads I think it could be preceded by -file if its going to insert the wad filenames in place of the % switches... in order to load a wad you have to specify -file first

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 22:53:49 2017 No.3720379 >>3705304 >90's wad is garbage because its nothing like a 10's wad I really hate this mindset. It completely disregards any context on why 90's standards were different.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 23:09:39 2017 No.3720408

>>3719659
It's nothing to do with Doom. It's a DOS thing, that carries over to the Windows command prompt. It's a empty variable for extra stuff on the command line. Extra arguments you give to the bat file will be passed onto the file it's executing.

Traditionally you do need -file when loading wads, but modern ports all seem to work without -file, for the sake of drag & drop support. Nonetheless, if setting that bat up for doom2.exe all you would need to do is add -file before the variables (though that may screw up any other arguments you wanted to pass after it?)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 23:40:12 2017 No.3720440 >>3718256 Many thanks.

Anonymous Fri Jan 6 02:53:45 2017 No.3720671

>>3720379
This. While some modern wads have proven its possible to be highly detailed within vanilla limits, A big part of why 90's mappers did not achieve such was because the vanilla limits weren't completely understood by the community of the time (source code release didn't happen until december 1997, and it wasnt released under GPL until October 1999). Mapping Tools of the 90's were also nowhere near as intuitive nor luxurious as Doom Builder (3D View wasnt even a thing back then), meaning it would've required even more effort to pull off as well.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 03:38:39 2017 No.3720712 I did always like TNT better than Plutonia, but I think Ultimate has the best maps out of all the games. Still, the first level is fun to run through on beserk alone.

Anonymous Fri Jan 6 16:07:38 2017 No.3721739

>>3691919

Hell on Earth Starter Pack > TNT > Doom > Doom 2

Also, if you refuse to use the enemy-only BD was you are fucking delusional.

BD has its flaws, but the fact it gives hitscanners actual projectiles you can reasonably dodge is the best and simplest gameplay modification since the holy duo of PillowBlaster and DoomNukem graced the zdoom forums with their creations.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 22:33:44 2017 No.3722441 >>3721739 >Hell on Earth Starter Pack >good no.

Anonymous Sat Jan 7 00:53:05 2017 No.3722669

>>3704913
> Tell me, am I a Doom pleb?
> only played “official” wads
> hasn't ever gone sightseeing to Memento Mori or Eternal maps
> hasn't seen what total conversions and game mods can do
> hasn't Dreamed of Cyberdemons most of the maps are easy/simple to get, though

That's not even a pleb tier, that's illiterate normalfag attracted by hype tier.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 7 02:39:59 2017 No.3722762 I always felt Icarus had higher highs, but TNT was more consistently good.

Anonymous Sat Jan 7 14:38:25 2017 No.3723578

>>3720379

For some reason even though there were plenty of 3d modelling programs even in the old days with what-you-see (realitime renderng) support...

Its only been in recent years that realtime rendering for Doom maps has been available.

That makes a huge difference because then you see the painful lack of detail when you make a map. The result coercing you to include ever more details and fun parts.

However when all you're seeing is 2d Cad, it seems acceptable when you go load the map to playtest it and see your work.

There were a few high quality stabs back then (Memento Mori stuff), but until the what-you-see realtime rendering was available you had to already be ultra-tier mapper to create detailed shit like that.

> blame lack of initiative for the static jump in quality

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