/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3680582]

Impressive.

[Anonymous No.3680821]

>>3680582

Very nice...... let's see Cliff Blezinski's game

[Anonymous No.3680824]

>>3680821

Look at that subtle bi-linear filtering.... the tasteful thickness of it.... oh my god... it even has alternate fire modes...

[Anonymous No.3681057]

>>3680582
YOU HAVE LOST THE LEAD

[Anonymous No.3681062]

>>3680582

UT99 with the speed slider set a bit higher was objectively superior in every way.

The Dreamcast port was shitly made too, even though it was done by Id themselves.

[Anonymous No.3681230]

>>3681062
Except for DM. UT99's DM was just not as refined as Q3. Everything else was better though, including the soundtrack.

[Anonymous No.3681351]

>>3681062
the casul speaks

typical /vr/ shitter

[Anonymous No.3681378]

>>3681062
I wouldn't say "every way." Q3 has more interesting movement mechanics. That's the only case I can think of where Q3 is clearly better though.

[Anonymous No.3681383]

>>3681062
Q3's DM absolutely slaughter UT99 what are you fucking smoking

Team Arena couldn't live up to UT99, that I can agree, but Q3 is first and foremost in true arena DM

stay mad, I hope you lose the lead

[Anonymous No.3681463]

>>3680582
>>3681057
I really miss the days when the good guys (id software) defined the industry 2bh. now the industry is defined by fucking cowadoody.

[Anonymous No.3681497]

>>3681378
I dislike Quake style movement. The whole sliding around in roller blades and bouncing like a basketball thing never felt right to me. I also didn't like UT2k4 movement though. The only game with crazy movement that appealed to me was Xonotic but I'm sure it was mostly because of the sanic speed and perfect mouse input that makes flick shots feel so natural.

[Anonymous No.3681506]

>>3681463
eh, it was inevitable

the reason why id was good is due to the niche audience

with casual gaming as popular as it is today, there was no way id could ever maintain that kind of standard without succumbing to cowadooty-tier levels (which, they tried to -- see Doom 3 and Rage -- and the latest Doom before changing their mind at the last minute)

the only other way was if video games stayed niche, but that's foolish and pure hipster ideology

basically what happened, happened, and all good things must come to an end

[Anonymous No.3681517]

>>3681506
I've never played a Call of Duty game in my life, but I'd like to ask, what exactly did it do "wrong" to change the industry? I know that at the time when MW got really big UT was in decline, 2k4 was pretty big but UT3 had pretty much killed the franchise, and Quake 4 had failed to impress. Did CoD just eat up the empty space left by ded arena shooters? Also what does that game even play like, compared to these other shooters?

[Anonymous No.3681528]

>>3681517
>I've never played a Call of Duty game in my life, but I'd like to ask, what exactly did it do "wrong" to change the industry?

The only thing it did wrong was that it became the go-to "must have" game for high-school kids. It was always on the popular side but that really exploded with CoD4:MW.

By itself and at the very beginning, CoD1 was simply a Medal of Honor-killer. No one could have known

[Anonymous No.3681547]

>>3681517
You really have to play it to understand, but in my experience with my little brother, the core differences seem to be:

1. Theatrical """Cinematic""""-style Campaign Mode

>shitty cutscenes
>hammy story
>hordes of reverse-bullet sponge enemies with no proper limb system (a.k.a just a few bullets to their feet and they die or a simple knife melee attack and they're gone in an instant)

2. Realistic and yet Unrealistic Guns and Mechanics

>weird mix of modern-inspired weapons but warped recoils, gunplay, movement, equipment etc.

Graphically looking realistic (and a big, big focus on graphics mind you), but it's as far away as can be in physics and actual gunfights

3. Ultra-simplified Gameplay

>you start out with good guns
>you duck/take cover to regain full health
>brainless, designed around a reckless run and gun system
>uninspired and uncreative level design (there's nothing wrong with linear games but it gets a bit too much at times)

Think of it this way: the premise seems to be like it's just a movie, a literal "video" "game" if you will, and you occasionally press a few buttons to take out some baddies to progress further. Hell, they even featured famous actor Kevin Spacey in one of their games.

Despite this being a really scathing assessment, the CoD games achieve what they wanted really well: accessible to literally anyone, easy to play, fun, and fast. The engine was based on Quake so it was super fluid, and you can feel it best in the older titles before they developed a truly separate essentially independent engine.

All in all it's like everyone and everything is a balloon and you have a needle. Even in multiplayer, people go down in seconds, you just pop, pop, and pop them all through. Yeah it kinda feels fun but you're also a balloon and pop as easy

There's nothing inherently wrong with CoD's formula, but it's certainly different, and as someone who grew up with Doom it just feels much more bland and predictable.

[Anonymous No.3681557]

>>3681547
So it's run and gun like arena shooters but with CS type TTK? Yeah I don't really like when combat is over in just a couple of shots. I currently play Dirty Bomb which I like primarily because the TTK is pretty decent and gunfights feel more like proper aim duels.

[Anonymous No.3681567]

>>3681557
That's one way to put it, yeah.

If you watch any CoD video you can see just how fast everything dies.

In fact, that's where the whole 360-noscope meme came from, since some people would max their sensitivity to spin around, and just click anywhere to have the sniper rifle blow a load to the poor sucker in front of them without even aiming

it's so ridiculous that it becomes fun

[Anonymous No.3681635]

>>3681557

Picture CS but with respawns and no bomb planting/diffusal, the entire enemy model takes headshot damage, and the recoil isn't there. I call it "whack-a-mole" gameplay because you just shoot whatever pops up in front of you. Very easy to play and gets boring after a while because the skill ceiling is so low.

As for how it fucked the industry up, it turned the mainstream formula for FPS games into that same whack-a-mole, low skill gameplay.

[Anonymous No.3681638]

>>3681567
Noscoping comes from cs, peon

[Anonymous No.3681676]

>>3681638
I would argue that CoD still massively popularized it though

[Anonymous No.3681867]

1/2

Well, I am just learning Quake 3 right now, so please correct me if I'm wrong or misinformed about something. Also please give me some strafejumping tips because I can't seem to get past 500 UPS..

Quake 3 was kind of a perfect storm. You had a brand new multiplayer industry, id software at their absolute peak, and a whole bunch of lucky accidents that kind of came together to make one of the most influential games of all time. This is just kind of a messy take on why its so much deeper than your typical FPS.

First of all is the movement. Much like comboing was unintentional in Street Fighter 2, yet turned into a vital part of fighting games, strafe jumping started out as an unintended bug in how movement was programmed, but became a central part of the game. Because of the skill and practice needed to pull it off consistently, it became one of the many tools used by high level players to get around the map quickly. Mastery of strafe jumping and its variants gives you incredible mobility, and it's one of the things that really defines Q3A's high skill ceiling gameplay.

Second of all is the weapon balance. Each weapon is specifically designed for different situations, and they are all useful in very different ways. A great player will be able to use every single weapon in a map during a match. Rocket, rail and LG form the holy trinity, but something like grenade launcher is great for area denial, plasma for spamming, etc... Even your default spawn weapon, the machinegun can be very useful. It's game experience and planning that decides what weapon you use, and while there is bread and butter weapons, the entire arsenal has a place and time.

[Anonymous No.3681869]

>>3681867

2/2

Third is the powerups and map control in general. For those unfamiliar, there is a thing called "stack", which is built up health and armor pickups. As you build those up, your advantage in firefights increases and gives you much better odds in combat. This works directly into the item respawn timings, which drive a player to be in a specific part of the map to get the best pickups. More or less, a player will try to keep control of the megahealth and red armor to maintain an advantage, while the other player will be focused on building their stack with yellow armors, wearing the other player down and preventing them from keeping their superior stack.

This leads into the mind games and map knowledge. This is where Quake really turns into an intricate game of high speed chess. The largest advantage you can have in this game is knowing where your opponent will be and where he wants to go. The good maps are designed in a way that expects you to use all the aspects of quake movement, and the best items are placed in areas that require tricky jumps or high risk to grab. As a beginner player, fighting an experienced one feels like taking on someone psychic. Much of high level play is about being somewhere that the other player doesn't expect and pushing that advantage as far as you can.

I don't think I can really do justice to how unbelievebly deep this game is. Learning Quake 3 is hard as fuck. There has never been another FPS that demands such pure skill from a player. In any other multiplayer FPS I can think of, a scrub with an aimbot would be nigh-unstoppable, but because of all these factors like the movement, weapon balance, map knowledge, territory control, stack strategy, a good player will wipe the floor with the hacker. Perfect aim means very little. Other FPS has elements of all these, but no other game brings it all together like Quake 3 does. Thats why people are still playing it nearly 20 years on.

[Anonymous No.3681882]

>>3681867
There was no "lucky bunch of accidents" to make it influencial, it was influencial because it was fucking amazing. Nothing lucky about that. The movement was around since Quake 1 and intentionally kept in Quake 3.

Sure the rest of it is okay, but it's obvious you're copying from what others have said/assessed it. We don't really need your essay about it, other people put hundreds or thousands of hours into it and were part of the community for years.

[Anonymous No.3682065]

>>3681497
>I dislike Quake style movement. The whole sliding around in roller blades and bouncing like a basketball thing never felt right to me.

as an original quake 3 player, this made me laugh my ass off

[Anonymous No.3682675]

>>3681517
Activision's modern business practice with the recently released COD games is literally skullfucking the consumer for all he's got. It's insane how badly they're screwing people over with microtransactions straight out of the box on release. You don't get a game anymore; you get a piece of a game, and then you can buy 'extra' stuff to go with it, a lot of which is pay to win horse shit. And it's literally a fucking slot machine, too. You buy COD points, and then stick them into a slot machine for a chance to win various cosmetic items like armor, taunts, etc, and it also includes the chance to win new guns and variants of those guns (i.e. pay to win shit). You get unboxing videos on youtube where these shills do videos of them opening COD crates with COD points (youtube clickbait titles like "$1000 SUPPLY DROP OPENING"). You can't even choose the guns and buy specifically what you want; you can only gamble with your money for a chance to win them.

I thought DLC map packs for multiplayer last gen was bad enough and I refused to buy even those (and this gen games launch with less maps right on release). In the past you could make your own maps and upload them online for free and everybody would be able to play them. I don't blame Activision though I guess. They're a company and wanna maximise profit so so be it. It's the consumers that are retarded because they let them get away with this. I'm worried how far this malpractice will permeate other games, too. I loved The Last Of Us' multiplayer on PS3 and that entirely became pay to win horse shit, too, where you could buy heavily OP weapons and perks. I vote with my money so I didn't buy that shit out of principle, which is a shame because the multiplayer of that game was great. I stopped playing it as a result because there's no way I will ever support that bullshit.

[Anonymous No.3682679]

>>3682675 continued

I miss days of the past where when you bought a game you actually had the full game and no BS. Now you buy a game and all you have is pieces for it. This new pay to win microtransaction shit is really getting out of control and Activision is setting the example for the entire industry. I really hope COD dies for this because this is just sickening. I wonder how long it takes before most of the multiplayer industry adopts this pay to win bullshit practice and becomes a new standard (as stated, I've seen it now also in TLOU and Uncharted 4 mp. Titanfall 2 has it but it's 'cosmetic only' thankfully but imo even that is bullshit because in the past games would have allowed us to unlock shit like new aesthetics bonuses by completing a challenge of some sort or finding easter eggs). The worst part? Kids online actually defend Activision when they pull this shit. It's bonkers. Modern 'gamer' apparently like to be skullfucked by papa corporation.

[Anonymous No.3682682]

>>3681638
>Noscoping comes from cs
I always wondered how many fags that their own makeshift reticle they put on their monitor. I've heard some gaming monitors nowadays have a built in reticule that you turn on with a press of a button.

[Anonymous No.3682691]

>>3681230
This.

DM = Q3A, nothing touches it.
CTF/Dom/Assault/etc = UT, nothing touches it.

TDM I'd say it's about even, Q3 had the speed and versatile weapons, UT had the massive map count and alt fire modes (plus mods).

[Anonymous No.3682713]

I love both and bought both, fuck me right?

[Anonymous No.3682823]

>>3682713
how about you pick one, you little bitch?

[Anonymous No.3683192]

best 5years of my life.
2001-2006~

I regreted a lot of things in my life, but I will never regret spending most of my youth(13-18yo) playing quake 3 in my parents basement.

Still get hard just thinking about this time.

[Anonymous No.3684749]

>>3680824
Trilinear is better. Alt fire is a crutch for shit gameplay design. Guns were largely crap. UT also had piss poor framerate issues, bad audio, doesn't respect color profiles, had clunky movement and worse netcode. Also most of the maps were crap.

UT was basically a good showing at amateur hour.

[Anonymous No.3685560]

>>3681869
Perfect aim does not mean very little you pretentious idiot. Its another essential skillset of the game.

>>3681882
He's just another doom babby retard that thinks he's a genius and all knowing fps guru for clicking on /vr/.

[Anonymous No.3687227]

>>3681867
>You had a brand new multiplayer industry, id software at their absolute peak
Multiplayer on PC a thing for around seven years before, internet play was a thing almost just as long. They made a game that supported dialup multiplayer in 1993 and which was also supported with tunneling by other adapters at least in 1995. They made two more games with native IP support in the mean time. It wasn't exactly brand new.

Also id wasn't at it's peak and Quake 3 wasn't one of the most influential games, outside of using it's engines it was barely influential. It also wasn't deeper than your typical FPS. It's was just more refined than most in all the ways it needed to be.

Strafe Jumping wasn't even new to Q3, it was in Q2 before that and bunnyhopping in QW. Straferunning was even a thing in Doom - which is how long their movement code implemented improper vectors for movement.

>Second of all is the weapon balance. Each weapon is specifically designed for different situations, and they are all useful in very different ways.
Barely. Quake 1 had weapons designed for situation. Quake 3 was mostly balanced for every weapon being deadly with situational differences being minimized.
If you were proficient with all the weapon and a good player almost all of the weapons were effective at similar ranges. There are situational differences but in most encounters the differences mattered less beyond burst DPS and AOE denial/stalling. This made it easier for any player to play because they didn't need to adjust or sneak for weapons and map play. Pick any weapon including the starting one and you're effectively in the fight. Trying the same in QW would get you slaughtered for bringing the starting shotgun anywhere near a competent player with a rocket launcher. Q3 was simplified and made more accessible and had better flow for those changes.

> Learning Quake 3 is hard as fuck.
It's literally the easiest and best FPS to learn to play FPS outside of strafe jumping.

[Anonymous No.3687243]

>>3681869
>In any other multiplayer FPS I can think of, a scrub with an aimbot would be nigh-unstoppable, but because of all these factors like the movement, weapon balance, map knowledge, territory control, stack strategy, a good player will wipe the floor with the hacker. Perfect aim means very little.

That's actually the opposite of true in Q3. Literally that's the number one way bots are even given any difficulty. People would talk about Xaero bot as a difficult challenge. It doesn't play well. The bot doesn't even aim above 30% in most matches. But because the rail gun and the map, it fucks people up. If you actually had a viable aimbot you're almost definitely going to win especially if you equip the MG and continue to pick up ammo. Aim is one of the most important factors in Quake 3 period. Item and map control help, but even that will do little against getting slammed by perfect accuracy MG, Plasma, Lightning gun would outright slam your shit. It'd fuck up your movement and rip your health apart so quick it's not funny. A good player would actually not wipe the floor with an aimbot, they would be lucky to eek out a win using all of their ability. Perfect aim is a huge part of the game due to the complete viability of all weapons in most situations.