/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3630357]

Why did Miang kill most people in Zeboim graveyard dead? Didn't Deus just need as many human parts as possible to regenerate? Why does it matter if people are 'selfish' or whatever? What special condition did Deus need people to be in anyway, because people by the end of the game weren't any less fucked up than the Zeboim residents.

Also, what are Wels supposed to be exactly? I mean, Deus needs human parts, but then has them eat each other... I don't understand this. I looked it up on the Xeno wiki and they don't give much info, not even any conjectures on what the word 'Wels' may have come from.

[Anonymous No.3630363]

>>3630357

because they where developing in a direction that wasn't conducive to her goals. Plus they where an evolutionary dead end that needed to be culled so better parts could be harvested.

[Anonymous No.3630372]

>>3630363
>they where an evolutionary dead
that seems like a handwave to me...what more evolving did they need to do? And first of all, Miang stunted everyone's spiritual growth, so what did she expect?

[Anonymous No.3630378]

>>3630363
>they where an evolutionary dead end
that seems like a handwave to me...what more evolving did they need to do? And first of all, Miang stunted everyone's spiritual growth, so what did she expect? Then she genocided them, and started the same exact process again from scratch.

[Anonymous No.3630379]

>>3630372

she was weeding out the weakest of the race.

[Anonymous No.3630381]

>>3630379
>she was weeding out the weakest of the race.
By setting up the conditions to make them all weak? They were all self indulgent and had all the resources they could hope for...that's not conditions you make people stronger under.

[Anonymous No.3630382]

This horrible game had a shitty, incomprehensible story. Don't waste time trying to understand its many plot holes. Not worth it.

[Anonymous No.3630385]

>>3630381
>By setting up the conditions to make them all weak?
Not only that, but she must have realized that all their children would be inferior. It's like she has no clue of what she is doing. She's the worst social darwinist of all time, if that was her plan.

[Anonymous No.3630386]

>>3630381
>By setting up the conditions to make them all weak?

By setting up conditions where the strong will thrive. Scientists do it all the time with insects.

You take like a thousand bees spray them with low doses of poison and the ones that survive you breed resulting in a new generation of stronger bees.

The next batch of humans after Zeboim are going to be genetically more advanced and resilient

[Anonymous No.3630391]

>>3630386
>By setting up conditions where the strong will thrive.
That's not what Zeboim was. It was a high tech wonderland with nanotechnology.

[Anonymous No.3630392]

Miang has humanity killed off every few generations so that the Antitype and the Contact are eliminated, who could foil the plans of reviving Deus. Whenever they get reincarnated, some catastrophic event occurs around then as well.

Wels were native to the planet that Deus converted into humans using Kadomony, but sometimes they can glitch out and revert back to their original form. The Limiters that Krelian devised helped reduce the chances of this happening, sort of like a patch.

[Anonymous No.3630397]

>>3630391
>It was a high tech wonderland with nanotechnology.

Go watch Wall-E to see where that leads for humanity as a species.

[Anonymous No.3630401]

>>3630392
>Miang has humanity killed off every few generations so that the Antitype and the Contact are eliminated, who could foil the plans of reviving Deus.
How do they tell if they manage to get the Contact and Antitype? If they keep re manifesting and they have to constantly kill of humanity, it seems as though Deus will *never* be revived.

>Wels were native to the planet that Deus converted into humans using Kadomony
Are all the people on the planet made from the natives, or were some made from other parts?

[Anonymous No.3630403]

>>3630397
That's my point. They're left dependent on the tech, not a bunch of ubermensch that would make whatever proper parts that's needed for a Deus. And Miang actively sets up this kind of dependence.

[Anonymous No.3630407]

>>3630401
>How do they tell if they manage to get the Contact and Antitype? If they keep re manifesting and they have to constantly kill of humanity, it seems as though Deus will *never* be revived.
If I recall, she's trying to find the Antitype to merge with her so that the plans of reviving Deus can start, which never happens until the Fei era. Keeping humanity at a small number helps her locate Elly. Also, Miang doesn't have any power over which girl's body she takes over next if her current host dies.

>Are all the people on the planet made from the natives, or were some made from other parts?
Not sure, but they had to get the materials from something, right?

[Anonymous No.3630468]

>>3630403

Look, Immortality and body hopping aside, Miang doesn't really have more to work with than what she had with her when Deus first crashed. She's not able to pull the tech she needs out of her ass so it goes like this.

>Lead humanity down path A
>humanity develops X
>get X kill humanity so you can start over and lead them down path B so they develop Y

and like the guy above me said, it's in her best interests to keep a cap on how many people start running around.

[Anonymous No.3630474]

>>3630468
>She's not able to pull the tech she needs out of her ass
Actually, most of the technology was already available from the Eldridge or derived from it. There didn't need to be free market competition, and apparently there wasn't much of that. All the parts were inherently garbage.

[Anonymous No.3630480]

Can we all agree that Myyah is a way better name than Miang. It even fits the story better, essentially being (el)haym backwards, the el being indicative of a diety. Where the fuck did Miang come from, anyway?

[Anonymous No.3630481]

Miang wins the award for least effective villain.

[Anonymous No.3630509]

>>3630481
She's definitely the worst of the villains. Krellian, Grahf, Ramsus, Cain, even the Elements have better characterization.

Was Kislev supposed to be modeled after USSR? Who is Aveh supposed to be like?

[Anonymous No.3630517]

What the fuck is this thing?

[Anonymous No.3630521]

>>3630474
>Actually, most of the technology was already available from the Eldridge or derived from it

And what do you want her to do with a mostly broken space ship? That takes manpower and resources to get running again.

>>3630481
>>3630509

She's indirectly or personally responsible for literally everything that happens in the game. She's not just the most effective villain in the game but given the shit that went down probably one of if not the most effective ever.

whatdoesgodneedwithastarship (or was it DarkId) said it best, "Everyone is dumb except for Miang"

>even the Elements have better characterization.

You're making the mistake of assuming she's an actual person.

[Anonymous No.3630523]

[Anonymous No.3630526]

Does combat in Xenogears ever become challenging?

I'm already pretty far into the game (I just rescued the girl from the desert city) and so far every battle has been a joke difficultywise.

[Anonymous No.3630532]

>>3630526
game sucks

[Anonymous No.3630535]

>>3630526
There's about 4 or 5 bullshit bosses in the game.

>the mech you fight underground
>Ramsus when you're just Bart
>the boss you fight underwater at the Thames
>Opiomorph near the end
>Hammer (going for the trader card)
>maybe some others I'm forgetting

[Anonymous No.3630542]

Member that time Miang nuked the planet.

I member.

[Anonymous No.3632214]

>>3630357
Good luck trying to make sense out of that game. The writing is a god damned mess.

[Anonymous No.3632231]

>>3632214
That's why the director wrote Perfect Works.

[Anonymous No.3632804]

Nothing explains why they crucified mechs, though.

[Anonymous No.3632810]

>>3630521
>And what do you want her to do with a mostly broken space ship? That takes manpower and resources to get running again.
Totally derailed from the original point; Deus wanted parts to regenerate with, not worker drones. Thankfully someone already clarified it.
>She's indirectly or personally responsible for literally everything that happens in the game.
She really isn't. She's just been following the same routine for thousands of years and the game's events marks the end of it. Miang was an old parasitic Slave agent for Master parasite Deus that failed for the last time.

[Anonymous No.3632817]

>>3632804
Good way to keep them from escaping.

[Anonymous No.3632828]

>>3632804
Forgive this poster, for he does not know what he chu

[Anonymous No.3632836]

>>3630357
They had fucked their genetics to the point they were creating nano-machine people instead of having children, which was apparently not conducive to the revival of Deus, so she blew them all up and started over.

[Anonymous No.3632846]

>>3632836
But if their technology were so great, why couldn't they fix their sterility?

[Anonymous No.3632862]

There was nothing in the game that implied they were sterile, in fact it was Miang who pushed for nanotechnology to enhance human evolution...
Apparently Miang understands natural selection the same way a computer program would.

[Anonymous No.3632869]

>>3632846
Because apparently they were so fucked up on a molecular level it was easier to create people literally from scratch than to fix them own genetics.

Or they realized their bodies had built on "morph in to spare parts for a space monster" switches and said "fuck that, we'll just make our own people,with black jack, and hookers!"

[Anonymous No.3632871]

>>3632869
you're wrong, you fucker

[Anonymous No.3632874]

>>3632862
Nanotechnology shouldn't belong to the goyim.

SHUT HUMANITY DOWN.

[Anonymous No.3633706]

>>3630378
You have to understand that Miang is basically just a Trojan, so you can't expect her to really adapt all that well across generations.

>>3630480
Yeah, it makes more sense, but it looks/sounds awkward in English (MYYAAAAAH!!), and "The villain's name is the hero's backwards!" is like, the lowest form of naming in fiction.

>>3632862
You mean besides that flashback where Kim says, "Humans are defective creatures. A bunch of fools! That's why genetic damage is up lately. The birth rate is also going down," and Elly says, "I can't have children because of hereditary genetic damage."

[Anonymous No.3635129]

>>3630517
Super Dimentional Fortress Macross

[Anonymous No.3636137]

Xenogears inspired me to read the bible again, and now my soul is with Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.3636591]

>>3636137
>Judeo-Christianity
>not Gnosticism

[Anonymous No.3636642]

>>3636591
>Judeo-Christianity
It's just Christianity.

[Anonymous No.3636660]

>>3636642
The "Christianity" you know of today was heavily modified by jews and is not an accurate representation of Jesus and his teaching.

[Anonymous No.3636665]

>>3636660
Where did you hear that?

[Anonymous No.3636681]

>>3636665
f-four chan

[Anonymous No.3636692]

>playing through Xenogears the first time
>Citan seems decent character but is the most blatant Mary Sue character in any game I've ever played
>Bart story arc is good, but kinda shitty character and gear
>Elly seems kinda shitty but I've never been a fan of casters
>Enjoyed Rico arc, but absolute shit character, and becomes nonexistent like Umaro ff6 tier
>Get Billy
>seems really cool character
>good fighter too

Please God tell me he's not gonna just become irrelevant after Fri rejoins, will he?

Are there any good characters that are worth using over Fei and Citan????

[Anonymous No.3636693]

>>3636665
http://aryanism.net/religion/christianity/

[Anonymous No.3636701]

>>3636692
Nah Billy gets a lot of development and his buffs are top tier.

[Anonymous No.3636702]

>>3636665
I don't know what his sources are.
But in school, did you ever play the telephone game?

[Anonymous No.3636709]

>>3636701
nice, I'm alright with that

A cowboy gun toting paladin is a pretty cool trope to me, glad to see hes good.

How's his gear hold up to others?

[Anonymous No.3636735]

>>3636692
>Elly seems kinda shitty but I've never been a fan of casters
She's a caster, but she mixes some sweet kung fu with her wand.

[Anonymous No.3636738]

>>3636693
As if literally Hitler understood anything about Christianity.

[Anonymous No.3636751]

>>3636735
Yeah the combo system is pretty cool and she's not totally useless in physical damage dealing but it seems she's a caster that has failure rates on her spells too? Seems strange

Btw is getting an ether doubler on her worth it? Should I get more for others too? I have enough gold to buy two but I don't know if they are worth and how many casters I get

[Anonymous No.3636757]

>>3636709
In terms of their gears:

Maria > Citan > Emmy > Billy > Bart > Rico > Chu

You never get to use Elly's upgraded gear, so don't bother with her.

[Anonymous No.3636774]

Satan literally breaks the game.

[Anonymous No.3636782]

>>3636692
>but kinda shitty character
can you elaborate? I thought BArt filled his purspose well, I guess he developed pretty early so there's not much for him later on, but what was given was good.

>Enjoyed Rico arc, but absolute shit character
I would've liked to see more Rico, he doesn't get much after we leave Aveh

Billy is one of the better characters, but after him I'll warn you, you get 2 other characters, and one gets developed really quickly while the other has optional development in a side dungeon.

I think they're still pretty likable though

[Anonymous No.3636810]

>>3636757
Rico's gear becomes really good if you give it 3 Magnetic Coats.

[Anonymous No.3636817]

>>3636810
I wish there was a breakdown of what all the gear parts did (and how much of an effect they have). The in-game descriptions are pretty vague, for the most part.

[Anonymous No.3636937]

>>3636782
By Bart, I meant shitty gameplay character. I think his story is rather great, and find it cool how he is becoming Fei's extroverted best buddy over the course of the game, and so far he has been holding up quite well with being a driving force in the story

But man his character in battle is pretty much just using Wild Smile on foot and in gear. He gets to use whips but he does less damage when he joins Fei and Citan which seems a bit backwards. So far I don't have any good ether techs on him. His deathblows aren't as damaging. He's not as fast as Citan and Fei. He has less accuracy than Citan and Fei. He does less damage than Citan and Fei.

Like I just killed the boss where I get Billy's gear for the first time (neat cutscene too), and when choosing a party it really didn't matter who I picked because it seems like Billy and Citan are so much better than everyone else, there is little reason to pick Bart or Rico or Elly even.

Maybe I'm just slowly realizing this game is the Fei and Citan show? Which it obviously is from what I understand so far and I don't have a huge deal against it, but I'm just a bit surprised there is such a power gap between party members.

Still an enjoyable game so far. I hope that disc2 isn't as bad as what everyone tells me it is

[Anonymous No.3636972]

[Anonymous No.3636975]

[Anonymous No.3637026]

>>3636937
>Maybe I'm just slowly realizing this game is the Fei and Elly show
ftfy

But in all seriousness you'll probably end up using whaterver you find comfortable for most of the game, but once Bart gets his omnigear and ability he becomes a bit more useful

[Anonymous No.3637080]

There were plans to develop Rico's character more, but they got cut after the budget was sapped.

[Anonymous No.3637351]

>>3636774
It'd be nice if speed wasn't the most vital stat in the game by tenfold. Like I can't help but put Power Crisis and speed items on him so that I can basically take out Grahf or the Executioner before anyone else gets a turn.

[Anonymous No.3638112]

>>3637080
>I haven't done anything since the prison escape arc!
>Bro... You're the Kaiser's son!
>Oh. Cool. Thanks for the trader card.
>and that's the end of that plotthread
Not!Blanka was fun to watch animationwise but I literally never used him again besides the 'shoot a mirror with a railgun' plot.
>>3636751
>Btw is getting an ether doubler on her worth it?
Yes, it is.

[Anonymous No.3638121]

>>3636937
>because it seems like Billy and Citan are so much better than everyone else
Billy's damage output is dependant on ammo, if you're out of ammo Billy is worthless, his Ether arts are more or less a discount Citan Ether set, so there's not much to see in there either.
As you'll get further in the game you'll see that there's not point in using anyone else that the Holy Trinity of Fei/Citan/Emeralda, Billy is a slower Citan with ammo, Rico is strong but he's the slowest character in the game, Bart is mediocre all around and Wild Smile becomes mostly useless by the midgame, Chu Chu...is Chu Chu, and Maria is garbage on foot, nothing Emeralda can't do.
>Maybe I'm just slowly realizing this game is the Fei and Citan show?
Citan is the best character in the game bar none, the only thing he can't do is offensive spells, which are shit anyway.
His speed is supreme, and speed is all that matters here really, his attack power is incredible and becomes even more incredible near the end of the first disc when he gets an ulterior upgrade, he's fast as shit, he has access to the best healing tool in the game on foot and can double its power with another spell, he has the best buffs in the game, all of them, did I mention he's fast as shit?
The only character that can kind of come close to him on foot is Fei, and even though Fei has the superior finisher his speed blows compared to Citan who can get three turns while Fei gets one, just spam single triangle attacks a few times to charge him up and let him loose with a maxed combo=dead bosses, he can fight fucking Angels on foot and win easily.

Then you think "Well, okay, the doc is pretty broken on foot, surely he will have some kind of rebalancing when on his gear", lolno, he's still fast as shit and hits like a motherfucker even on his gear, and his omnigear is just as brutal as Fei's.

[Anonymous No.3638251]

Miang can reincarnate in any woman the moment she dies. As a theoretical, say you're in a town with only two women. She's one of them. You're the other. She gets stabbed and dies. Guess what's going to happen to you?

[Anonymous No.3638324]

>>3636751
>is getting an ether doubler on her worth it?
Ether doubler is the most broken item in the game, it's always worth it.

[Anonymous No.3638853]

>>3638121
Chu-Chu as a gear scales with her character if you boost her with drives. It's impractical, but it's there.

[Anonymous No.3638882]

So was Miang to Deus what Sephiroth was to Jenova? The reunion and everything seems similar.

[Anonymous No.3638894]

>>3638882
Not really. Sephiroth acted on his own self-interests and used his mother to achieve his goal, while Miang has no free will and is an extension of Deus' programming directives.

[Anonymous No.3638926]

>>3638894
>Miang has no free will and is an extension of Deus' programming directives.
There used to be a lot of debate about Sephiroth being the same thing. I mean, what was Jenova? It appeared to be somewhat similar to Lavos from CT; an alien virus infesting planet to planet, and apparently Sephiroth wanted to carry on that task by transforming the Planet into a vessel to travel to other planets.

[Anonymous No.3638943]

Literally Billy in drag.

[Anonymous No.3638945]

>>3638926
Let's just go with occam's razor. If it were actually Jehovah's genes controlling Sephiroth, why didn't Cloud get manipulated as well, seeing as he underwent the same experiments as Seph? I think it's safe to assume that Seph was acting on his own accord, rather than following orders from his mother or whatever. She had been mostly dormant until Sephiroth learned of her and decided to become god, like how Kefka used the statues in FFVI.

[Anonymous No.3638953]

>>3638945
>why didn't Cloud get manipulated as well
He was though, as was everyone who had Jenova's cell's and was forced to participate in the reunion of the cells.
And it's not exactly the same procedure with Cloud and all the 'clones', since Sephiroth was injected with the cells while still a fetus.

[Anonymous No.3638963]

>>3638943
I want to make love to the elements

[Anonymous No.3638998]

>>3632804
Its some kind of anime trope

[Anonymous No.3639113]

Billy also has the best NPC as a father figure

[Anonymous No.3640673]

>>3638121
>Maria is garbage on foot

But that's utterly wrong.

[Anonymous No.3640905]

What kinda game u want pham?

>disc 1
Traditional JRPG with ATB combat and platforming.

>disc 2
JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP

[Anonymous No.3640978]

>>3640905
At least there's an over world on disc 2 right....?

[Anonymous No.3641076]

>>3640905
I thought the narration style of disc 2 made the events very epic (as in grand in scale, not LE EPICK xD). Landing on the desolate world map after all the cool stuff went down felt very disappointing.

[Anonymous No.3641081]

>>3641076
Honestly, I would play a visual novel adaptation of Xenogears. The story is brilliant but the gameplay is pretty unimpressive (like most jarpigs).

[Anonymous No.3641268]

>>3641081
Just watch Eva. It leaves you feeling just as empty at the end of the series.