Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

If you can see this message, the SSL certificate expiration has been fixed.
Become a Patron!

/vr/ - Retro Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 52 KB, 704x480, 00000024.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3622075 No.3622075 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Virtua Fighter 2, Dead or Alive, Last Bronx and Goiken Muyou all run at 704x480i (the highest resolution of that time) with multi-layered pseudo-3D backdrops. PSX's Dead or Alive runs at 512x480i with simplistic backgrounds and simplified HUD and explosions, its only technical advantage is the improved lighting.

>Saturn
Virtua Fighter 2: 704x480
Dead or Alive: 704x480
Last Bronx: 704x480
Goiken Muyou: 704x480

>PSX
Tekken 3: 368x480
Dead or Alive: 512x480
Soul Edge: 640x240
Tobal 2: 512x480

Even things like Battle Arena Toshinden runs at a higher resolution on the Saturn, despite being a direct PSX port.

So, what caused this advantage, the features of the VDP2?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5towF_bhU

>> No.3622078

>>3622075
>Why were the Saturn so good at 3D Fighting Games?

This is what 3rd world monkeys really believe.

>> No.3622082

>>3622075
you really shouldn't ponder the inane

it's unhealthy

>> No.3622087

>>3622075
fucks given ps rumblefunction rocks

>> No.3622092

>>3622075
SEGA does what Sony don't.

>> No.3622097

>>3622075
it was made for them
saturn's 2 processors=2 fighting game characters

>> No.3622098

Fighting games are good for massively overstating a system's graphical capabilities, because they're not actually that demanding to run. They leave a lot of resources for things like more detailed character models compared to other types of games.

>> No.3622132

>>3622075
Nice bait Sonydron.

>> No.3622145

>>3622075
These resolutions for Saturn are highly misleading.

Saturn's two VDPs can output their graphics at different resolutions. In many cases, when a Saturn game is listed at a particular resolution, it just means that the background VDP is running at that resolution but not the polygon VDP.

When a PS1 game is listed at a particular resolution, the whole game is actually running at that resolution.

By the way, fighting games aren't technically problematic in 3D. You can virtually pre-compute clipping and depth. In this generation, the fighters would stand on a tiny polygonal arena with everything behind them being entirely 2D in most cases.

>> No.3622149

I love it when fighting game fanboys fight amongst each other. It's like watching two mangy raccoons fight over a trash bag.

>> No.3622153

>>3622149
T. guy who tried to play fighting games at one point but sucked at it and is forever salty

>> No.3622158

>>3622153
I own a couple dozen fighters. I'm alright, I don't claim to be a pro. I definitely suck at them compared to you guys. I mean holy shit you have no idea how loony you guys look like to other gamers.

>> No.3622178

>>3622158
>I mean holy shit you have no idea how loony you guys look like to other gamers.

Why? I find the craziest people in gaming tend to be Nintendrones, literally come off like cult members especially when they show their hatred and rage over a certain blue rodent, or on the opposite end certain sects of the Sonic fandom

>> No.3622189

>>3622075
Two things.
One - 3d fighting games of the time used extremely simple arenas, often just a flat ground and some scrolling bitmaps, with extremely few obstacles. These can all be offloaded to the Saturns extra background chip, thereby saving a shit ton of processing power and texture memory. On the Playstation, you have to subdivide such a ground into separate polygons, and they share textures with the characters, same for the 2d backgrounds.

Two - Saturn VDP1 has an alternate scanline rendering mode. Basically you tell it to only render even or odd lines for each polygon. Since the polygons are display interlaced anyway, you only need to render 240 lines on a 480i display. Saturn does that for polygons on a hardware level. I don't think the Playstation can do that, so it would be stuck with rendering 512x480 and then convert it to interlaced at display.

So on the Saturn you could draw a 1024x512x8 interlaced framebuffer with 0 cost in texture space, and render 4096x4096px flat ground and two layers of 1024x1024 bitmaps with again 0 cost. On Playstation, the larger your resolution, the less space you have for textures, and the more backgrounds you use, the less space you have for textures again.

Dead or Alive for example uses almost nothing but gouraud shaded single colour polys for that reason - no texture space.

It was the one area where the Saturn really, really shined in 3d graphics early on.

However, the downside is that you cannot apply any kind of shading or transparency if you use a hi-res framebuffer. That's why later games like Fighting Vipers / Megamix and D-Xhird used low-res polygons, but with dynamic lightning.

You also get problems if you want to add more background scenery, like walls or other 3d objects. Those take polygons away from the fighters. It's why Fighters Megamix drops the framerate big time on levels that have walls.

>> No.3622190

>>3622178
Well if you don't understand then I won't be able to convince you. Now enjoy your pissing contest with the Saturn guy.

>> No.3622212

It's cool looking for differences

Saturn just has blobs for shadows while the PS1 has a silhouette

>> No.3622231

>>3622212
Yea, I actually like 5th gen because of how interesting the comparisons can get.

>> No.3622342

>>3622145
>>3622189
Very informative! Thanks!

>> No.3622360

sweetie don't ever try and convince yourself you made the right choice picking saturn as your childhood console because you're fighting a losing battle

goiken muyou is a fucking horrible game, anyway

>> No.3622367
File: 2 KB, 48x97, Joe-moon1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3622367

>>3622149
Who is even really fighting here? There's like one person who comes to the board that likes VF and he's barely around anymore. Most people are just mocking OP's weak ass bait.

>> No.3622439

>>3622189
Oh, and one more thing. The flat 3d "mode 7" ground the Saturn draws in hardware, it always draws that in low-res, no matter what mode you are running. The other zooming and scrolling backgrounds can be hi-res though.

>>3622145
>In many cases, when a Saturn game is listed at a particular resolution, it just means that the background VDP is running at that resolution but not the polygon VDP.

From the top of my head:
Virtua Fighter 2 and Kids - hi-res backgrounds and fighters.
Dead or Alive - hi-res fighters, but low-res background bitmaps. Not sure about the GUI.
Last Bronx - low-res ground, medium res fighters (352x480), high res GUI overlay
Goiken Muyou - hi-res backgrounds and fighters
Toshinden S/Remix - low res only, if memory serves right. It was a very early port.
Toshinden URA - hi-res backgrounds, medium res fighters
D-Xhird - hi-res backgrounds, low res fighters, has extensive dynamic lightning
Fighting Vipers, Fighters Megamix - hi-res backgrounds, low res fighters, has lightning, but it may be pre-baked into each level. At least one level changes the light source dynamically, but it only rotates around 4 corners and the game hangs for a little bit when it does.
Virtua Fighter - low res backgrounds, medium res fighters. It has light sourcing on Sarahs stage, which was removed in Remix, and then put back in Fighters Megamix.
Virtua Fighter Remix - low res backgrounds, medium res fighters

Are there any other 3d fighters I forgot?

>> No.3622795
File: 67 KB, 354x520, Virtua_Fighter_Anime_Round_Two.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3622795

I mean, yeah, nothing really topped VF2.

Even today.

>> No.3622897

>>3622795
kek

>> No.3622905

>>3622897
?

>> No.3622972

>>3622075
it had a lot good 2d ones too

>> No.3623046

>>3622905
>I mean, yeah, nothing really topped VF2.
>Even today.

Comedy gold

>> No.3623053

>>3623046

Why?

>> No.3623602

>>3622360
You people are unbelievable, I'm not saying the Saturn has better 3D fighting games than the PSX, nor the opposite for that matter. I'm just curious about the technical differences, some 3D fighting games on the Saturn were fairly impressive looking, especially given their early release date.

My favorite 3D fighter of that generation is Tobal 2, anyway.

>>3622439
Savaki.

I've never played it, but looking at the models it seems that it uses gouraud shading. Light sourcing too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MawXbFwuDFY

>> No.3623606

Most 3D fighters used 2D backgrounds so it's obvious that Saturn would have nicer backgrounds, but the console doesn't have something comparable to Soul Edge.

>> No.3623773

>>3623606
Soul Edge looked like ass on the PS1

>> No.3623824

>>3623773
When it came out compared to other home console 3D fighters it looked amazing.

>> No.3623826

>>3623773
Still much more impressive than Saturn 3D fighters 2bh

>> No.3623832

>>3623824
It came out in 1996, there was already much better looking 3D games out at or around that time.

>> No.3623869

>>3622075
>Dat saturn boob bounce
I think we have a winner

>> No.3623871

>>3623832
Yeah. And what 3D fighter on PS did you think looked better at the time? Toshinden? Tekken 2??

>> No.3623986

>>3623871
Dead or Alive, Toshinden 3 both looked better than Soul Blade and came out on PS1 before it
Bloody Roar came out the same year for PS1 and looked better. Bloody Roar 2, Tekken 3 and Ehrgeiz all came out about a year later and all looked significantly better.

VF2 came out a year earlier for the Saturn and looked better
Fighter Megamix came out the same year on saturnand looked better
VF3 was released to arcade the same year as soul blade and absolutely blew it out of the water.

>> No.3623994
File: 29 KB, 300x225, Fighter's_Megamix_(U)-5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3623994

>>3623986
>VF2 came out a year earlier for the Saturn and looked better
>Fighter Megamix came out the same year on saturnand looked better

Not even him but what drugs are you on and can I have some?

>> No.3624021

>>3623994
>cherry picked low resolution screen shot of a joke character
>still looks better than Soul blade

>> No.3624048

>>3624021
Fighters Megamix looked pretty crap honestly. If it had dynamic lightning on hits, it would've looked better, but still would've looked jarring due to its skeleton animation.

Soul Edge looked nice primarily because of all those weapon trails, and the 3d backgrounds.

>> No.3624061

>>3623986
>Dead or alive
Generic 2D backgrounds, came out 1 year later after Soul Blade too.

>Toshinden 3
All Toshinden games look like garbage, also came out a few days after Soul Blade

>Bloody Roar
Models and backgrounds aren't as good, came out 1 year later too.

>Tekken 3
Boring 2D backgrounds

>Bloody Roar 2 and Ergheiz
Came out like 2 years later and even then they aren't that impressive

>VF2 Saturn
Shitty 2D backgrounds, they look much worse than even the 2D backgrounds in Dead or Alive.

>Fighting Megamix
Looks like shit, similar to VF2

>VF3 Arcade
You finally have a fucking point, however I was talking about console releases, when it comes to arcades Model 2 and Model 3 BTFO everything.

>> No.3624075
File: 55 KB, 402x390, neverever.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3624075

>>3624061
>Soul blade looks better than, DoA, Toshinden 3, Bloody Roar 1&2, Tekken 3 and Ergheiz
Holy shit what are you smoking, are you blind?

>> No.3624087

>>3624075
>DoA
PS1 DoA has terrible backgrounds, models are ok but nothing special. Saturn DoA has nicer backgrounds but still 2D

>Toshinden 3
Mediocre models, garbage animation, garbage backgrounds, what's good about it again?

>Tekken 3
Nice models, ugly flat backgrounds.

>Ergheiz
Some decent models but the claustrophobic scenearios don't convice me, also came out fucking 2 years later

>Bloody Roar 1 and 2
These are fine, came out years later tho

>> No.3624107

>>3624087
Soul Blade came out on PS1 in 1997

>> No.3624110

>>3624107
1996 in japan, bloody roar 1 and 2 came out 1 and 2 years later respectively

>> No.3624116

>>3624110
Do you live in Japan, because i dont, also December 20th 1996 in japan, thats still under a year.

>> No.3624120

>>3624116
game releases are considered by the first release and not localizations you retarded american

>> No.3624125
File: 325 KB, 1280x720, RUDE.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3624125

>>3624120

>> No.3624142

>>3624087
>Mediocre models, garbage animation, garbage backgrounds, what's good about it again?

It has Michael Jackson fighting Jason Voorhees, Errol Flynn, and Catwoman.

also the music rocked.

>> No.3624145
File: 1.72 MB, 400x240, tumblr_o19isnK5cM1qjztgpo1_400.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3624145

>>3624142

>> No.3624160

>>3624120
>muh eleven days
>counts as a year
who's the murrkan now

>> No.3624258

>>3623986
>Dead or Alive, Toshinden 3
Disagree but it's debatable

>Bloody Roar
Definitely not as good

>VF2, Fighter Megamix
I love me some Fighters Megamix (more than Soul Blade that's for sure), but this is crazy talk. That is not a good looking game at all by comparison. .

>> No.3624281

>>3624160
you were the one interested in release year stupid faggot

>> No.3624296
File: 75 KB, 1280x720, fighters megault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3624296

>> No.3624850

>>3624258
Yeah, no Bloody Roar looks way better than Soul Blade

>> No.3624868

>>3624850
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgBXRpV208g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvFrorgQBSU

Sophitia's stage alone looks better than anything in Bloody Roar 2bh

>> No.3624896

>>3624868
>Sophitia's stage alone looks better than anything in Bloody Roar 2bh

Yeah, but the character models look awful compared to BR.

>> No.3624904

>>3624896
Are you crazy? the models in BR are so blocky and with poorer lightning, not as detailed

>> No.3624921

>>3624904
I don't see it. The normal fighters, sure, they aren't anything special. The animal forms look awesome detailed though, with very good texturing. Soul Blade doesn't have that good textures anywhere.

Yes, they are blocky, but that's cause they use heavy texturing with flat shading instead of light texturing with gouraud shaded skin that destroys detail.

>> No.3624935
File: 478 KB, 582x659, comp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3624935

>>3624921
>animal forms
still looks like shit, videos don't lie anon

>> No.3624951

>>3624935
Nice cherry picking. I'm sure you couldn't have found a more partial comparison towards Soul Blade even if you tried.

Now try taking a screenshot on any of the other better looking levels, and preferably from a zoom point where the characters are at a similar height as to your comparison.

>> No.3624961

>>3624951
>zoom point, similar heigh
I tried but they still looked small and undetailed.

>> No.3625034

>>3624935
Even from this heavily cherry picked comparison Bloody Roar looks better

>> No.3625386

>>3624921
Are you fucking high or just a furry? Bloody Roar looks like dog shit.

>> No.3625872

>>3625386
Are you retarded or just blind?

>> No.3625979

>>3625872
This coming from the same person also trying to say Fighters Megamix looked good.

>> No.3625982

>>3624935
Emulator footage on the bottom LOL

>> No.3625993

>>3625979
Actually it comes from the person who said that Megamix looked like ass.

>> No.3626003 [DELETED] 

>>3625982
Top was played on emulator, bottom was played on a PS3

>> No.3626008

>>3625982
Top was played on a PS2, bottom was played on a PS3

>> No.3626086

>>3625993
Well at least you're not that crazy, but I still think it's markedly worse than Soul Blade.

>> No.3626568

>>3622075

It wasn't, though.

>> No.3626634

I'm just going to reiterate this; fighting games are relatively undemanding, so they're awesome for overstating a console's capabilities because they allow for more detailed graphics than you'd see in a typical game. The only thing fighting games are really demanding on is input latency, hence why they tend to do poorly over networks.

>>3625993
This is why we need poster IDs. They can change from thread to thread but it would greatly eliminate samefagging and general confusion if all posts from a specific IP address in a specific thread shared the same ID.

>> No.3627457

>>3626634
>fighting games are relatively undemanding
You are utterly clueless

>> No.3629135

>>3627457
He was talking about graphics. It's not rendering a complex environment like most 3D games, it's usually a simple play field and two characters. It's why they're often quite impressive looking compared to other genres.

>>3626634
>This is why we need poster IDs.

They made a site for people who want a 4chan style set up but with poster ID's, I'm sure you know of it.

>> No.3629197

>>3626634
>This is why we need poster IDs.

Or you can just GTFO like the pussy you are

>> No.3629213

>playstation kids defending their first console
This is why /vr/ should be pre-1995 so shit threads like this can be in /v/ where it belongs

>> No.3629216

>>3629213
Who here is defending psx?

>> No.3629229

>>3626634
>This is why we need poster IDs.

Feel free to fuck off back to plebbit whenever you like.

>> No.3629254

Street Fighter EX2 is still the best-looking retro fighting game, not counting Dreamcast and SEGA arcade hardware.

>> No.3629262

>>3629254
Hot opinion Kiddo.

>> No.3629360

>>3622075
Huh, so that's why Itagaki chose to port the Saturn version of DoA to Xbox.

>> No.3629418

>>3624281
I'm not the same anon, nubcake.

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action