Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

If you can see this message, the SSL certificate expiration has been fixed.
Become a Patron!

/vr/ - Retro Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 19 KB, 430x201, VpaSO.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594789 No.3594789 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

The gaming industry abandoned 2D just a few years too early in the mid 90s for the sake of innovation. Growing up in the 16 bit Generation the next logical step graphically would have been more frames of animation, more precise texture rotation/scaling, higher resolution and fully animated cutscenes with full voice acting. But it never happened. Even when playing new games like DOOM I imagined how good multi perspective sprite enemies advancing would look with more frames and angles.

This is was most apparent to me with the US saturn release, as they canned most the 2D projects in favor of cobbled together, half finished 3D games. I kept asking "why no 2.5D sonic on the saturn? To which the industry replied "Thats not the game you really want, here have this grainy, pixelated model that is barely distinguishable from the background"

Yeah 2D was still around but it didn't evolve in the obvious direction and by the next gen it was completely forgotten. It became niche very quickly.

Now we have all turned to the lazy indieshit market for elaborate early access tech demos disguised as full games. Anybody get where Im coming from?

>> No.3594796
File: 248 KB, 1024x575, shantae.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594796

>>3594789
>The gaming industry abandoned 2D

Is this the new pleb baby opinions general?

>> No.3594797

>>3594789
There's Sonic Mania.

>> No.3594798

>>3594796
1 game sure is representative of the entire industry.

>> No.3594810

There were still a lot of 2D games on 32 bit consoles. Rayman, SotN, silhouette mirage, suikoden series, street fighter alpha games etc. I could keep going. I think OP is underage.

>> No.3594814
File: 405 KB, 1920x1080, Deaths-Gambit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594814

>>3594798
So the entire industry should be just one thing? You're not mad that there aren't any 2D games anymore. You're mad that there aren't ONLY 2D games anymore.

It doesn't matter that there are more awesome 2D games being made than you likely have time to play. They're not what's the most popular and you just can't get over that.

Think it's time for some popcorn, this thread's going to be a doozie.

>> No.3594820
File: 65 KB, 627x353, dragonscrown.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594820

>>3594796
>posting lazy indieshit
Way to prove OP right.

>> No.3594824

>>3594814
That looks like ass
Anyways 2d games still got made on handhelds at least

>> No.3594828
File: 22 KB, 207x145, 2a1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594828

>>3594820
>game made by small team in 70's great!
>game made by small team in 80's great!
>game made by small team in 90's great!
>game made by small team after 2000 INDIE TRASH!!!

>> No.3594831

>>3594820
>posting lazy flash animation

>> No.3594834
File: 110 KB, 500x374, sonishit1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594834

>>3594824
>I don't like how that game looks

Not everything appeals to everyone, anon. I think Sonic might be one of the ugliest game series of all time. It being the popular mascot didn't stop the Genesis from being one of my favorite systems ever.

>> No.3594838
File: 1.96 MB, 475x313, astroboy_omega1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594838

2D peaked during the 16-bit. Sure, you can get new games that look amazing like >>3594820, but in the end I think nothing really topped some of the best games during 16-bit.

Also >>3594824 is right, 2D continued on handhelds during non-/vr/ times.

3D and polygons was the reasonable next step. They were already experimenting with 3D gameplay ever since before the 3rd gen came around. It was only thanks to 90s technology that 3D games could actually become more affordable to make, with more resources, etc. But the idea was always there.

>> No.3594840
File: 64 KB, 603x450, dark-void-zero-20091223015038459_640w.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594840

>>3594831
>They don't use the kind of animation I like so that game sucks.

Please tell us more about how much you don't like things.

>> No.3594841
File: 57 KB, 225x163, Elena-taunt.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594841

>>3594838
>2D peaked during the 16-bit
2D was just getting started in the 16-bit

>> No.3594843

>>3594840
2D games that look like cartoons or anime are shit. Same goes for digitized sprites.

>> No.3594848

>>3594789
3D was rapidly embraced by the game industry because people wanted to experiment and push new gameplay boundaries.

Ironically, those who wanted 5th generation to cling to 2D graphics were the real graphic whores. They wanted 4th gen games recycled with better animation / more scaling / rotation and nothing more.

>> No.3594849

>>3594831
I think you misquoted. Shantae looks more like Newgrounds than Vanillaware's games.

>> No.3594850
File: 51 KB, 512x448, gfs_47172_1_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594850

>>3594834
>sonic looks bad
Damn anon you just fucked up any credibility you may have had
Also
>5th gen had 2d too
What looks better yoshis story or pic related?

>> No.3594853

>>3594841
Please don't post her gif with the static face, it creeps me out.

>> No.3594854
File: 156 KB, 640x360, 485754-sonic-mania.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594854

2D games is in the small dev/ indi market now, there's more choice (granted there not all great).

wonder if SEGA will release a new 2D platformer..

>> No.3594856
File: 962 KB, 371x269, earth92479925.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594856

>>3594843
That's a nice opinion to have. Does it apply to all games, or just new games?

>> No.3594858

>>3594854
We're not allowed to like those.

Even the good ones. It's just not proper or some shit.

>> No.3594860

>>3594834
>sanic
ugly shit

>> No.3594863
File: 26 KB, 260x226, Mortal Kombat 1 & 2 (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594863

>>3594850
>Damn anon you just fucked up any credibility you may have had

Only with people who don't understand what opinions and personal preferences are and those people are the kind of retards who make threads like this so I'm happy to not have credibility with them.

Your example is a downport onto a handheld system... Every SNES port onto GBA looked shitty.

>> No.3594868

>>3594863
>Your example is a downport onto a handheld system... Every SNES port onto GBA looked shitty.
>512x448

>Damn anon you just fucked up any credibility you may have had

>> No.3594873

>>3594810
>a handfull of games
>a lot
>>3594843
Aaaand there it is. This is exactly what killed 2D

>> No.3594880
File: 964 KB, 1280x720, Ship.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594880

>>3594868
Show me one SNES to GBA port you think looked good then.

>>3594873
>This is exactly what killed 2D
If it doesn't have pixels it's shit.

>> No.3594881
File: 96 KB, 1070x602, adventures-of-pip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594881

>>3594873
>>3594880
>This is exactly what killed 2D
If it does have pixels it's SHIT!

>> No.3594883
File: 61 KB, 640x411, pankapu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594883

>2D games are dead

>> No.3594884

>>3594880
>Show me one SNES to GBA port you think looked good then.
I agree with you. But he posted a SNES screenshot.

>> No.3594890
File: 107 KB, 960x544, axiom-verge-ps-vita-20160331-001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594890

>>3594789
It's true and it make me so sad. There just aren't any 2D games at all anymore. I mean sure they still come out and they're great to play. But it's just not 1993 anymore, you know? Like things just aren't the same now that I'm not a child. It sucks I wish I could get over it but I guess I never will so it's time to give up.

>> No.3594901

The old school hardcore gamer crowd can't accept games like Odin's Sphere and Dragon's Crown as the next step in 2D that's the real problem. Some people think that if the game isn't using repeating tiles and low res sprites it can't be called "true" 2d. 2d isn't dead just became a less prevalent like any style or technology.

>> No.3594902

>>3594884
I guess that's on me for not even clicking the thumbnail and only skimming. Had to look up the N64 game he was referring to. I have no opinion on which looks better. Neither is great to me, neither is horrible.

Anyways point is, aesthetic preference is personal. If us not thinking the same thing looks good makes me lose credibility with him then I'm happy not to have it.

>> No.3594904

>>3594901
>The old school hardcore gamer crowd can't accept games like Odin's Sphere and Dragon's Crown as the next step in 2D that's the real problem.

Don't let the few loud people on /vr/ confuse you, those games are almost universally praised by older gamers.

>> No.3594916

>>3594883
Never said they were dead I just meant it felt like we missed a generation. They were all but forgotten for over 10 years

>> No.3594920

>>3594901
>The old school hardcore game
But it is not on 4chan

>> No.3594921
File: 264 KB, 1024x576, street73242_3cd7cb73fe_b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594921

>>3594901
Also people confuse graphics with gameplay. Or when they mean 2D they are just talking about graphics. Some games like Street Fighter have 3D graphics but are still 2D gameplay wise.

>> No.3594926 [DELETED] 

>>3594828
The difference is, "indie" games are cheap shit more akin to Amiga shovelware or PC shareware. There's no quality control in them and everyone can make them. So they flood the market with quick cash-grabs, which IMO will lead to a bubble akin to the 1983 game crash.

A typical indie game starts when one or few literal hipsters decide they need to make a quick buck, quite simply. They have half-assed programming and artistic skills, and choose to make video games since they're quick to make and market and don't require much skill to make.

And it'd be fine, but of course they have no experience whatsoever in making games, let alone good ideas or talent. So really, at best they make half-assed clones of old games, with shit-tier level design which makes Bubsy feel like a thought-out and well-crafted platformer. And they can stamp those one by one: there's no such thing as "quality control" in indie. They're just as profit-oriented as AAA game companies, if not more. Really, most of those programmers do it only because they don't have a better job. When they do find one, they readily abandon games forever.

And what made small companies from before better? First, they had to comply to some form of quality control on consoles. Second, sure, a lot of them started out making pretty unremarkable games—even Nintendo did that—, but they had to devote themselves to making games. So after years of clones and shit games, they finally learned to make something good, hired themselves professional artists, grabbed some loose talents from competitors and finally made good games. So did, for example, SNK.

>> No.3594927

>>3594901
Fucking this. Pixelated looking games are ok for the most part as long as the aesthetic fits the gameplay and themeing ala shovel knight. Fully animated 60 fps HD sprites will always get my dick rock hard.

>> No.3594935
File: 141 KB, 266x267, metal slugHermitcrab.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594935

>>3594789
>Growing up in the 16 bit Generation the next logical step graphically would have been more frames of animation, more precise texture rotation/scaling, higher resolution and fully animated cutscenes with full voice acting.

That's because you were a child and didn't understand the amount of work sprite animation takes. So instead of being properly wowed by what was accomplished, your child mind just saw that it was awesome and then wanted more.

Now you spend your days crying that what you thought was going to happen when you were 10 never did and you have to let everyone else know how pissed off you are about it.

Forget the amazing things that do get made, they weren't exactly what you wanted when you wanted them so it's all lazy indieshit. You're pathetic.

>> No.3594937

>>3594926
>There's no quality control in them and everyone can make them.

I think everyone being able to make games is fantastic. Sure like with anything most of what gets made is derivative or bad, but this is also where we get room for real creativity and expanding of ideas and genres. It's one of the reasons we're in a gaming golden age.

>> No.3594952

>>3594935
Well that got real dark real quick. Early 3D was CLEARLY shit looking when compared to what was possible in 2D and my "10 year old mind" was smart enough to notice its shortcomings you fucking mook.

>> No.3594953

>>3594937
>gaming golden age
Why do /v/kids keep memeing this? If anything we're in an iron age now.

>> No.3594958

>>3594937
> I think everyone being able to make games is fantastic.
This has been this way forever. Everyone could make games for Amiga, and few if any good games came out from it. Everyone could make shareware for PC. What came out of it? Again, little to nothing, with very few known exceptions. And yeah, people said "shareware is the golden age of gaming". Guess what—it only flooded the market with cheap crap.

Everyone can make music. Soundcloud is full of it. You think it's the golden age of music now? Everyone can make movies too. How many masterpiece movies on YouTube do you know? Heck, even good channels like AVGN are one in a million.

>It's one of the reasons we're in a gaming golden age.
And where did you take this from? This is the worst time for the games there has ever been, and indie didn't add anything to it.

> but this is also where we get room for real creativity and expanding of ideas and genres
Quite the opposite, in fact.

>> No.3594960

They never did. There is still a lot of great sprite work in mobile, handheld games. Not just indie games have it. So... just from this post OP, you don't play games outside of AAA console BS.

>> No.3594962
File: 14 KB, 300x231, ecco_the_dolphin_defender_of_the_future_003.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594962

>>3594952
> Early 3D was CLEARLY shit looking when compared to what was possible in 2D

With this I agree completely. I think the PS era had a lot of the worst looking games, N64 games almost universally look terrible to me.

It wasn't until the Dreamcast that I thought home consoles could make 3D games that I thought looked decent enough that I thought they could hold a candle to good looking 2D games. I just understood what was happening and why and didn't let it stop my enjoyment of games from that era.

>>3594953
I'm the only one I know of on this board who actually says this and I'm in my 40's but try not to mention that often because it causes certain people's brains to break and then they just troll about it for days.

But yes, I really honestly think this is a gaming golden age. Nearly anyone who wants to try can make almost any game they can conceive of with resources we could barely imagine only a few years ago.

You see stagnation but I see the polar opposite. I think this is a vibrant exciting time to be into video games and the best part about it all is that everything just seems to be getting better and better. Every year I end up loving games I not only didn't know I wanted, I didn't even think of.

I still love, love, love many classic games that I grew up playing. But as a gamer I think times are truly fantastic.

>> No.3594967

>>3594935
I was told that sprite in your pic was animated using bones, something similar to programs we have today like Spriter and DragonBones.
I'm floored if that is true because 99% of 2d bone animations seem to suck ass but they made it look so good in this game.

>> No.3594969

>>3594958
It always has, but there are far more resources for people to make what they can imagine now. It used to be that you both had to have amazing ideas and be an excellent programmer. Now that is lesser and more focus can just be put into game design.

And yeah I think everyone being able to put their music on soundcloud and kids being able to make feature length and quality movies with their phones is truly wonderful. Is it the start of a golden age? Time will tell.

>> No.3594970

>>3594967
Ya a lot of games use animation middleware. Either in house or 3rd party.

>> No.3594971

>>3594967
Bones is just the tool, a good artist can make good things with it. Visit an oekaki board and you'll be floored by what people can do with essentially MS paint.

>> No.3594974

>>3594971
>Visit an oekaki board
No one does, even the one here.

>> No.3594976 [DELETED] 

>>3594953
This. Gaming is shit now and anyone who doesn't see it is simply delusional.

>Arcades are dead and forgotten.
>Competition in the console sphere is mostly dead.
>Corruption in gaming journalism and publishers is at an all-time high.
>The rise of cancerous DRM, and everyone being fine with that (e.g. Steam, Origin).
>A disappointing lack of middle-ground games, only AAA and indie really exist any more.
>Japan losing their influence on the gaming market, with several old great devs dying out.
>Videogames had more innovation and better design in the '90s than the shit we get currently.
>The gap between computers and consoles disappeared, now we have a watered-down mixture of both.

'80s-'90s will always be the golden age of gaming.

>> No.3594983
File: 2 KB, 48x97, Joe-moon1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594983

>>3594976
lol

>> No.3594986
File: 1.71 MB, 1920x1080, 261570_2016-01-24_00001.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594986

>>3594798
Here, let me show you another one.

>> No.3594994

>>3594926
>There's no quality control in them and everyone can make them
Remember that Batman game that performed like a cripple?
>So they flood the market with quick cash-grabs
HD remakes and ports were a major problem with the PS3 and GBA
>A typical indie game starts when one or few literal hipsters decide they need to make a quick buck
Citation needed
>They have half-assed programming and artistic skills
So I was playing Binding of Isaac a few years ago...
>and don't require much skill to make.
You couldn't program a game of "Guess what number I'm thinking" without looking up every single line of code.
>they have no experience whatsoever in making games
Ever heard of Goldeneye?
>let alone good ideas or talent
Minecraft was a good idea.
>with shit-tier level design which makes Bubsy feel like a thought-out and well-crafted platformer
Confirmed for playing shit games and being really bad at Bubsy.
>there's no such thing as "quality control" in indie
There's no such thing as quality control in the gaming industry. The closest thing we have is Steam's refund policy which is enforced by the customer.
>they had to comply to some form of quality control on consoles
A certain lawsuit against Nintendo blows this to smithereens

You rattled your tits for four entire paragraphs on something you know nothing about.

>> No.3594995
File: 2.96 MB, 912x672, 1453193643463.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594995

>>3594976
You forgot
>AAA games dependant on day one updates that will be gone in 5 years when the servers shut down
>predatory "free to play" gambling schemes
>Out of control DLC prices because competition violates "terms of service"

Truly dark times

>> No.3595002
File: 1.16 MB, 1922x1200, childol_screen04_156324.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595002

>>3594994
Talking about things he doesn't understand is that dude's main hobby.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

>> No.3595005 [DELETED] 
File: 122 KB, 422x423, harryShot_03_189_final.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595005

>>3594995
>predatory "free to play" gambling schemes

Thank you HCJ for funding Candy Crush for me. :)

>> No.3595013

>>3594796
Shantae isn't a good example. Look at the statue of the fat woman. That isn't actual spritework. It's a drawn asset lazily filtered to look pixelated and it looks like ass.

>> No.3595021

>>3594789
Yes. It's my dream to become a successful indie developer who makes fun 2D games with a high res artstyle. But my art skills aren't good enough.

>> No.3595034
File: 30 KB, 320x240, SaGaFrontier2-13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595034

>>3595013
>I don't like how that looks so it's a bad example

Hot opinion kiddo. I think the game looks great, personally.

>> No.3595036

>>3595013
>It's a drawn asset
sprites are magically assembled not drawn?

>> No.3595052
File: 362 KB, 1280x720, guacamelee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595052

The problem these days is that everything looks the same. It's all brown and bloom cowadoody realistic graphics. No one does anything interesting anymore.

>> No.3595058
File: 10 KB, 190x190, secret-of-mana-sprite-men-s-heavy_design.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595058

>>3595036
Duh. Why did you think they're called sprites?

>> No.3595065

>>3594858
What are some good ones?

>> No.3595092

>>3594789
Sounds to me like you ought to explore 2000s handhelds (GBA, DS), they held on to 2D sprite graphics there for a whole lot longer.

I do kinda miss 16-bit and 32-bit sprite graphics like those.

>>3594843
Get raped or die trying, digitized is great if done right.

>> No.3595094

>>3595065
>spoonfeed me!

>> No.3595095

>>3595013
>lazily filtered to look pixellated
the original game was made for the 3DS, which sports a whopping low-res 800x240 screen. It doesn't even look pixellated on a 3DS screen... Because a 3DS screen is basically 240p.

>> No.3595097

>>3594848
I kind of have to agree with this, there's only so much you can do with 2D.

>> No.3595109
File: 45 KB, 482x495, Recettear-Capitalism-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595109

>>3594994

For indie games the cream rises to the top, same as in every otehr industry. Good 2D games can still thrive on word of mouth alone.

Pic related sold over 460k copies on steam alone.

>> No.3595110

>>3594841

I mean peaked in general, not just animation.

>> No.3595129

>>3594881
If the pixels aren't all the same size and aligned in a grid its not really pixels to begin with.

>> No.3595158

>>3594880
>If it doesn't have pixels it's shit.
Good thing literally everything (short of a Vectrex) is displayed in pixels then.

>> No.3595159

>>3595109
Indie is still low-budget, low-effort trash and usually tries to push an agenda if made in the west. Fuck 'em to hell.

>> No.3595163

>I kept asking "why no 2.5D sonic on the saturn? To which the industry replied "Thats not the game you really want, here have this grainy, pixelated model that is barely distinguishable from the background"

You have to keep in mind that video games are an art, and artists always want to try new things.

>> No.3595167

>>3594935
>the amount of work sprite animation takes
3D modeling, texturing and animations isn't really all that fast either.

>> No.3595185

>>3595167
in 2d sprite animation you are really stuck to under HD resolutions. If you look at all the Japanese indie pixel art games, all of them come to be around 320 to 480 res.

>> No.3595316

>>3594926
This anon just can't stop being wrong.

>The difference is, "indie" games are cheap shit more akin to Amiga shovelware or PC shareware

PC have a tradition of bad games due to accessibility, what a shock! But then was even worse because companies would make really, really bad ports of their IPs.

>So they flood the market with quick cash-grabs, which IMO will lead to a bubble akin to the 1983 game crash.

Video game crashed because there was a flood of SYSTEMS with the SAME GAMES with an IGNORANT consumer. These goods were material ones and people. The problem wasn't stricktly quality but lot's of stuff, doing the same stuff with varying degrees of quality on a novelty technology. Since the crash, that happened only in America (Japan industry was ok), we are 30 years apart. And we didn't crash, because there's less systems and the goods not only are digital but aren't a real novelty, with advertising and heaps of information available to the lowest denominator. If a crash happens (which I highly doubt), it will be on the console market made obsolete by the PC accessibility, not because of game quality.

>A typical indie game starts when one or few literal hipsters decide they need to make a quick buck, quite simply. They have half-assed programming and artistic skills, and choose to make video games since they're quick to make and market and don't require much skill to make.

I can do the same asspull with 3A industry. There's bad games, there's good game, indie or 3A. I would even dare to say that indie games is what holds the industry from the 3A cinematic shooter formula that's saturating the market right now. They saturate with other stuff, for sure, but at least we have options and interesting titles coming from time to time (like Furi or Downwell, just to say a few).

>> No.3595361

>>3594921
why did Chun Li's legs turn into giant potatoes?

>> No.3595364

>>3594926

Cont.

>And what made small companies from before better? First, they had to comply to some form of quality control on consoles. Second, sure, a lot of them started out making pretty unremarkable games—even Nintendo did that—, but they had to devote themselves to making games. So after years of clones and shit games, they finally learned to make something good, hired themselves professional artists, grabbed some loose talents from competitors and finally made good games. So did, for example, SNK.

I really don't know what point you're trying to make. I mean, nobody knew how to do games, so good games really stood out. Gaming become a multi million dollar industry, so the bottom of the barrell have to compete with 3A companies. These people have to eat, of course they look for profit. If the games don't have any audience, OF COURSE they will bail. Gaming/Art have this "comunity" aspect that implies sharing some design philosophy or concept of fun/beauty. If nobody's pay attention, how can I SURVIVE making games, if they don't sell? That's literally suicide. People on 4chan have this "Golden Age Myth" along with "MUH PASSION" autisms that prevent them seeing games as products, like they are. Companies aren't doing what they're for charity of passion alone. I like to teach, but if people aren't willing to pay me so I can teach them, there's no point for me continue doing that, I will starve to death. So why should Indies or anybody, for that matter?

>> No.3595369

>>3594843
WarioLand on the Wii looks fucking great, though

>> No.3595372

>>3594873
but 2d never died

>> No.3595380

>>3595094

>asking for proof is spoonfeeding

That's some nice kind of shit.

>> No.3595384

>>3595316

>and people didn't have knowledge on them.

I should start doing long posts on Word. That window is too fucking small to see what I'm editing.

>> No.3595391

>>3594843
So litterally everything beyond atari 2600? nice.

>> No.3595394

>>3594850
To be fair, sonic 3 looks like ass compared to 1, 2, and CD

>> No.3595402

>>3594976

Holy fuck take the nostalgia goggles off.

And you call other people delusional jesus christ.

There is so much more raw variety in games these days- you just looked at a few titles you don't like and then determine that "videogames had more innovation and better design."

Do everyone, including and especially yourself, a favor by stop playing games.

>> No.3595405

>>3595092
What games have good digitized graphics?

>> No.3595410
File: 43 KB, 638x224, comparison.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595410

>>3595394
>sonic 3 looks like ass compared to 2

>> No.3595432
File: 45 KB, 320x225, sonic3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595432

>>3594863
>Every SNES port onto GBA looked shitty.

SNK was good at doing GB versions of the arcade/console fighting titles.
They continued making good handheld fighting games on the neo geo pocket.

>>3595410
I don't think either looks bad, but I think I know what the other anon means, I wouldn't say it looks like ass, but the art direction in Sonic 3 was different, they went for a more "realistic" style and sometimes it ends up looking a bit messy, see the plants and the terrain in pic related as an example. On previous Sonic games everything was more deliberate and less random in terms of design.
The Sonic aprite is also different, I personally remember not liking it as a kid at first, coming from the first 2 games, I felt Sonic 3 was not as appealing visually, I still liked the gameplay and the ideas behind the levels though (like Angel Island on fire). Hydrocity is one hell of a zone though, in every aspect.

>> No.3595449

>>3595163
Man, tripfags like you are really hungry for (YOU)'s, aren't you? Fuck off with your "gaming is an art" meme. No it fucking isn't, it's an entertainment industry like there's one for movies, for music, for TV and radio stations or for literature. If anything it's even less like art then let's say a movie from Hollywood or some pop song on the radio because it's the entertainment industry which is the most about money and the least about artistic freedom or things like that.

>> No.3595471

>>3595405
Doom
Duke Nukem 3D
Rise Of The Triad
Mortal Kombat in some ways.

>> No.3595481
File: 129 KB, 550x385, sonic-the-hedgehog-2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595481

>>3595432
I also think it looks bad compared to 1 and CD.
But it was still better looking than 2, that shit was flat and ugly like every american game back then.

>> No.3595482

>>3595410
I still stand by this, sonic's sprite especially sucks ass in 3

>> No.3595484
File: 23 KB, 327x367, oyGz50g.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595484

>>3595410
Sonic 3 sprite looks fucking derpy

>> No.3595491

>>3594976
>Arcades are dead and forgotten.
Arcades are obsolete to most people, because they have games at home.

>Competition in the console sphere is mostly dead.
In what sense?

>Corruption in gaming journalism and publishers is at an all-time high.
It was never NOT there, they just didn't say you were a bigot for pointing it out.

>The rise of cancerous DRM, and everyone being fine with that (e.g. Steam, Origin).
Shitty DRM goes back decades, as does people objecting to it, have fun if your software came with a literal fucking prism for decoding (minor trend, but still an example).

>A disappointing lack of middle-ground games, only AAA and indie really exist any more.
That's really not true though.

>Japan losing their influence on the gaming market, with several old great devs dying out.
I'd blame that more on the Japanese than anything.

>Videogames had more innovation and better design in the '90s than the shit we get currently.
AHAHAHAHAHA

>The gap between computers and consoles disappeared, now we have a watered-down mixture of both.
I'm sorry, does my PC suddenly become console-like because consoles have developed to be more computer-like?

>> No.3595501

>>3595482
>>3595484
Sonic's sprite isn't 95% of the screem

>> No.3595507

>>3594960
It's a damn shame how much nice 2D artwork is being wasted on "stamina bar & gacha" mobile games

>> No.3595512

>>3595501
Doesn't change the fact that it sucks ass, also I liked sonic 1's aesthetic a lot more, it was sharper and cleaner and worked better at least for me. everything in 3 is blobby and ugly.

>> No.3595521

>>3595484
No he doesn't.

>> No.3595528

>>3595449
>thinks all movies music and games are on the same playing field because they survive by making money
Not all art is created equal fucktard. Theres good shit and then theres bad shit and its all subjective

>> No.3595570
File: 68 KB, 560x493, dyer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595570

>>3595449
>implying literature isn't art

This is easily the dumbest comment I've ever seen on /vr/.

>> No.3595591

>>3595570
Gonna have to side with the tranny zoophile here, anon is a fucking pillock.

>> No.3595607

>>3595570

He is "using" Adorno & Horkheimer's apocalipt view on mass media in "Dialectic of Enlightenment" that basically says it alienate the masses and hold no intrisecal artistical value, only monetary, moved by greed and a project to keep the masses docile.

Though I don't share their view (absolute alienation don't exist since nobody hold all the truth to be "really free" and people are more complex than that), video games are born within the post-war capitalist world as mass media entertainment and, unlike music or visual art, didn't have a "grace" or "pure" period were it was "organic" in society.

TL:DR: anon is triping over the golden age myth again on the "good ol' times were greed and capitalism didn't taint the pure work of art".

>> No.3595626

>>3595361
due to the Great Chinese Rice Famine in 2014, China had to import potatoes as a replacement

>> No.3595780

>>3595361
do you even lift

>> No.3595801
File: 25 KB, 497x429, IMG_2197.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595801

>>3594921

>Chun Li's thighs will never crush your head like a watermelon

>> No.3595807

>>3594789
average joe number 90250, when presented with say, a PS1 game that used scaling and rotation and lots of colors and shit would say "eh, I had some of that that on my SNES, who cares"
even if it had more colors, more animation, did shit that you couldn't even consider running acceptably on an SNES, it would be dismissed as "old" when new 3D was on the scene

and there's your answer
polygon 3D had more of a "wow" factor, and then marketing shoved that idea down your throat to sell the new 3D machines

>> No.3595846

>>3595807
I like you

>> No.3595878

>>3594814
>what is nuance

>> No.3595952

2D still lives, strong as ever, on handhelds.

2D never died and never ever became something relegated to the past and labeled.

Only plebs and indie trash developers believe 2D is a thing of the past, OH, SO RETRO, NOSTALGIA.

>>3594843
Earthworm Jim, Cold Shadow, Genesis Aladdin, Wonder Project J 2 all look pretty good. The worst kind of 2D is the digitized one, like Mortal Kombat and Pit Fighter.

>> No.3596046

>>3595501

You see Sonic's sprite for 99% of the game when you play as him

>> No.3596129
File: 38 KB, 392x193, raster-vector-tower.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596129

>>3594789

Vector graphics were a mistake.

>> No.3596134

>>3596129
This. And Flash Games ala Newgrounds

>> No.3596136

>>3596134

I didn't have a problem with flash games for what they were. At least the ones from the mid 00s and earlier.

>> No.3596138

>>3594789
2D animation in games has lots of untapped potential still that never will be realized because this industry went polygon gay, its quite sad

>> No.3596149

>Videogames had more innovation and better design in the '90s than the shit we get currently.
Absolutely. Sony & microsoft never innovate, they only steal from others before them.

>> No.3596170

>>3594880
>Show me one SNES to GBA port you think looked good then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqUqh6eTKLs

>> No.3596178
File: 418 KB, 1276x716, ss_e49871a898aec8c8c30290eff66f421a792d3fc2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596178

On the topic of 2d indie-shit, I feel it's worth mention that Owlboy was released today after 9 years of development and looks pretty damn good. http://owlboygame.com/

They have a post on their blog about modern pixel art: http://dpadstudio.com/Blog/postHibit.html

>> No.3596181

>>3596178
awesome...any place to get it from?

>> No.3596183
File: 116 KB, 1276x716, 11.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596183

>>3596181
Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/app/115800
GOG: https://www.gog.com/game/owlboy
Humble: https://www.humblebundle.com/store/owlboy
IndieBox: https://store.theindiebox.com/products/owlboy

>> No.3596246

oldfags sure got btfo itt

>> No.3596250

>>3596138
Are you blind or just really, really, really stupid?

>> No.3596259
File: 167 KB, 400x150, sherm521.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596259

>>3596246
It's the oldfags who are laughing at console baby having his little fit. Great times, I love these threads.

>> No.3596265

>>3596136
This.
Flash fostered creativity and internet culture during the turn of the millennium.
The problem however was how dominant it became and how long it lingered when it should have evolved into something more tasteful and professional in some cases.

>> No.3596270

>>3596265
>it should have evolved into something more tasteful and professional in some cases.

/vr/ loves it's opinions on what other people should have been doing.

>> No.3596275

>>3596270
Yeah, it's called having an opinion of things and their quality. It's not just inherent to /vr/, but human nature in general. We do value judgments based on our tastes on all sorts of things during the various times of the day.
It's a very subjective thing, but an objective seeming conscious can be reached if enough people agree and/or an opinion is coherently argued.
I'm sorry if I offended you in some way, maybe you're an experienced flash user that continually puts out competent work. But notice I said "in some cases", I wasn't even generalizing.

>> No.3596284

>>3596275
I just think it's silly to sit around and talk about what you think other people should have been doing. But I think pretty much everything you say is ridiculous so it's par for the course.

>> No.3596286

>>3596183
Thanks, it looks gorgeous. Downloading the demo now to try it out.

>> No.3596302
File: 29 KB, 1280x720, quality flash project.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596302

>>3596284
>I think
forest _for_the_trees.exe

>> No.3596313
File: 1.96 MB, 366x298, owleF1u77u56o1_400.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596313

>>3596286
I love it so far. The style takes me back to playing Flink.

>> No.3596316

>>3596302
We all know thinking confuses you, no need to point it out.

>> No.3596319
File: 11 KB, 304x215, idie trash0034.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596319

Indie trash has always been indie trash. Everyone knows small teams of people are incapable of making fun games.

>> No.3596343
File: 1.63 MB, 1920x1080, screenshot_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596343

>>3594789
Totally agree. 2D could be great but these days no one is willing to put any effort into making it not look like it's bargain bin indie garbage.

I mean look at this piece of shit. No style, no skill, it's like a five year old pooped it out and his mom was so proud of his millenial shit that she had to put it in a game for him.

Pathetic. Games are dead. At least I can go back and play Sonic but fuck it's depressing. What am I going to do with my life?

>> No.3596351
File: 171 KB, 1024x575, mercenary-kings-screenshot-02-ps4-us-16jan15.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596351

>>3596343
And don't even get me started on Demos. Holy shit fuck demos. Doesn't anyone remember the good old days when professional game journalists like Scary Larry would play these games and then let us know what's good and what's shit. Now people expect you to go try the game yourself? What the fuck is that bullshit. Just tell me if it's quality or not so I know what to say when it comes up. Playing games is for chumps.

>> No.3596403

>>3596343
What game is that?

>> No.3596406

>>3596319
Agreed. Ratchet and Clank was SHIT.

>> No.3596408

>>3595491
I troll people nowadays by telling them that a 6/10 game is, by definition, above average. Then I start telling them to go back to school, how they failed math, and probably can't even count to ten because they think 7/10 is "average"

>> No.3596409

>>3596319
You're retarded

>> No.3596410

>>3594926
>>3594926
>>3594926
>>3594926
ANON BACKED OUT LIKE A FUCKING PUSSY

>> No.3596414

>>3596409
NO IT'S INDIE SO IT'S TRASH. INDIE MEANS TRASH. GAMES ARE OVER.

>> No.3596415

>>3596408
So your form of trolling is to not understand how averages work? Trolling is supposed to be more than just pretending to be stupid so people mock you.

>> No.3596419
File: 104 KB, 600x803, fishoore.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596419

>>3596410
He does that in almost every thread. It's great.

>> No.3596424

>>3596415
Mathematically, 5.5 is average on a 1-10 scale, and 5 is average on a 0-10 scale. 6/10 is above average. This is third grade math you fucking retard.

>> No.3596426

>>3596424
This is what I mean. Are you trying to be stupid? Is that what the trolling is? You realize this is about game reviews, right?

>> No.3596429

>>3596426
I don't recall review scores claiming to be exponential (this is high school math) or diminishing returns (this is college level top-secret FBI shit nigga, I'm already in trouble for posting it on 4chan).

Reviewers are bad at math. End of story.

>> No.3596434

>>3596429
This is where it gets hard. Are you actually clueless? It seems hard for anyone to be that dense, but this place is special that way. If I explain why you're wrong am I helping or taking the bait?

5.5 would only be above average if reviewers used the entire 10 point scale on a regular basis. But they don't, so if you take an AVERAGE of many many game scores, 5.5 is well below that number.

>> No.3596437
File: 499 KB, 500x213, giphy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596437

>>3596250

>> No.3596438
File: 13 KB, 300x200, 300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596438

>>3596434
>so if you take an AVERAGE of many many game scores, 5.5 is well below that number.
You're just making shit up as you go along.

>> No.3596439

>>3594976
>Arcades are dead and forgotten.
Good, now please release all those arcade games on home platforms and go fuck yourself.
Arcade were simply designed to suck all your cash and contributed to some awesome games being exclusive to them.
No loss here.

>>3595491
>AHAHAHAHAHA
Well, they did.
Go back and look how many older games used some cool game mechanics, earthworm jim had sling to latch onto slime, on some levels you could dig in the earth like an earthworm (nicely blended theme of the game with platforming and some mild puzzle).
You had grannies falling on your head, puppies, bowling dog and thats just first couple of levels.
In strike series you had orthogonal view could pick up people, destroy buildings and even rocks on map.
Impressive for an old game.
In wild guns everything was destroyable (at the time pretty impressing)
Tomb Raider had greatly designed levels with puzzles and some platforming sections were designed as a puzzle as well.
Psx devs were pretty much hacking console and using exploits to design games they wanted.

Modern games are either corridor walking simulators, pixel shit or at best generic open world and I mean really fucking generic.
Shit like Assassin's Creed IV look fucking gorgeous but gameplay wise, its a sneaking game that does not allow you to crouch, you have to use exploit to do that.
Its a game where beautiful levels are pretty much empty, there are no secrets apart from those maps you found.


After owning every PS and being jealous of some game xbox and nintendo had, 8th gen is the first generation I dont even feel like getting, at all.

>> No.3596440

>>3596438
I'm making up that game review scores are almost all on the high end of a 10 point scale am I? Have you never paid attention to the shit show that is video games journalism and review scores?

>> No.3596447

>>3595607
Capitalism is what allowed great games to flourish.

Under communism, there was one video game of note, Tetris, which the state stole from it's inventor, making huge profits on his work.

>> No.3596449 [DELETED] 

>>3596439
>8th gen is the first generation I dont even feel like getting, at all.

That's nice. :)

>> No.3596451 [DELETED] 

>>3596439
Many games nowadays have this weird approach to design when they allocate all the performance points into useless visual effects like volumetric light and some heavy shader then cut down on everything else making game looking shit at a times.
Look back at PS2 times where they used combination of simpler effects to achieve particular result so they could add more.
MGS3 used some magic to make the grass smooth and slick, last time I seen grass in PS3 game it was all pixelated when smoke effect was behind it.

>>3596449
>:)
kys

>> No.3596454 [DELETED] 

>>3596451
>kys
I should just look it up but keeping up with memes is a chore. What do you kids mean when you say this?

>> No.3596460 [DELETED] 

>>3596454
>What do you kids mean when you say this?

>Use emoticons
>pretend to be adult
This board is 18 only, go back to 9fag or whatever hole you crawled from faggot.

>> No.3596465 [DELETED] 

>>3596454
"Kill yourself"

>> No.3596470 [DELETED] 

>>3596460
I use emoticons that were popular years ago when I was on the internet a lot more. Outside of here I've never seen it.

>>3596465
Makes sense.

>> No.3596472

>>3596403
Niffelheim. Still screenshots really don't do it justice though.

>> No.3596476 [DELETED] 

>>3596470
>emoticons that were popular years ago
>Outside of here I've never seen it.

Stop lying you piece of shit.
Years ago or now your would be fucking called out for using them, if there was a thing 4chins ever cared about it was grammar and not using 1337 and facebook speech shit.
Go back to 133d1t, maybe they will like your bs made up stories more.

esad
>eat shit and die

>> No.3596484 [DELETED] 
File: 37 KB, 584x329, wood.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596484

>>3596476
Ohh we're back on the "I don't like you disagreeing with me so I'm going to call you a kid over and over and over" This isn't old at all.

Being upset you don't like video games wasn't enough eh? Alas.

>> No.3596489 [DELETED] 

>>3596484
>"I don't like you disagreeing with me so I'm going to call you a kid over and over and over"

You actually did it >>3596454 so why winning now?

>> No.3596492 [DELETED] 

>>3596489
That was literally just me asking what that meant. :)

>> No.3596495 [DELETED] 

>>3596492
Calling other kids, something you did and then complained about.

How about our big man goes back to 133d1t and cry to them about big meanies on Mongolian basket weaving forum not believing him being 1000 year old loli or some shit.

People here can tell newfaggotry and you reek of it.

>> No.3596501

>>3596439
I kind of think that's your own fault for playing Assasin's Creed IV.

But if we are looking at some real studio fuckery, remember how EA murdered Maxis, whored out The Sims increasingly over the years and made the effort to make sure Sim City would never again be good? There's some upside to that: competition.

Cities Skylines is pretty much everything that a city simulator in the 2010's should be, what EA made sure SimCity 2013 wasn't.

Likewise, EA murdered Bullfrog, and then (quite a bit later) raped the corpse of Syndicate (Wars), but from those ashes came Satellite Reign, which features devs from the original games, and unlike EA's Syndicate, which is a generic modern military styled FPS, Satellite Reign is an actual real-time strategy game viewed from above.

If people want something, and a big soulless giant hasn't delivered, or worse, shat on that desire, then that's opportunity for small time studios and indie devs to step up and make something which they think will answer that call, and sometimes this works.

>> No.3596502 [DELETED] 
File: 51 KB, 546x455, fishing hot girl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596502

>>3596495
Why would I go somewhere else and cry when this place is my daily entertainment?

>> No.3596508

>>3596501
Actually, I'm not sure "real-time strategy" is the right term, as that usually describes Starcraft, Warcraft and Age Of Empires, stuff like that.

What do you call a game where you tactically direct a small squad in combat from a birds-eye kind of view?

>> No.3596513 [DELETED] 

>>3596470
Emoticons have always been near %100 obsolete on 4chan, given that it's an IMAGE board.

>>3596495
I wish there were 1000 year old lolis on here.

>> No.3596523 [DELETED] 
File: 3.60 MB, 320x320, 1464192325032.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596523

>>3596513
I still like em :)

Images are fun too though.

>> No.3596525
File: 198 KB, 1680x1066, 1365546839114.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596525

>>3596501
Well, the game did looked interesting, I was blown away the moment I launched it.
Fluid adaptive animation. cool looking combat, freedom of movement, whats not to like.
Shame the game had some serious technology but was lacking as a game.

Dont mention me of EA because I literally have full folder called "EA Hate" so yeah, I know what EA did.

>>3596508
>What do you call a game where you tactically direct a small squad in combat from a birds-eye kind of view?
Tactical game.

>>3596502
>filename
Oh right I remember you, you killed that one shmups thread with your bullshit >>3567942
>Actually it was a way of proving that the posters here are incapable of controlling themselves when confronted with difficult emotions.

Your retardation is way too much to mistake for anyone else on this board.
Go fuck yourself, I wont argue with you because you are mental, literally.

>> No.3596527 [DELETED] 

>>3596525
:)

>> No.3596530 [DELETED] 

>>3596525
>Oh right I remember you, you killed that one shmups thread with your bullshit

Funny coming from the guy who likes to post "lightly salted bait" to test the people on the board.

>> No.3596535

>>3596178
Can this game save pixel art?

>> No.3596545
File: 98 KB, 578x335, owl28fbd7e1c46ed2150df97a6d2b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596545

>>3596535
Pixel art is hardly in need of saving. But it's a wonderful addition. Been playing it all morning it's pretty great so far.

>> No.3596567

>>3596447

Not bashing on capitalism, not on this department. Arcade was a entertainent made suck up your cash without having to resort to gambling. But people forget that was the very first nature of commercial games. Hell, arcade cabinets had suicide batteries and was a long way until you could change the game without changing the entire machine. So there's this myth that was a point in time were every game was like Russel's SpaceWar! made SOLELY to make groundbreaking achievements, when they never were, at least, on the majority part.

>> No.3596569
File: 17 KB, 400x300, Abes_Oddysee_screenshot_Abe_on_Elum[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596569

>>3596535
Doubt it, it looks great, smooth and nice but the reason 2D wont make a return is simple.
Big studios went 3D and not looking back, especially that they run by suits and suits talk numbers, they talk open world game because it sells, they talk good graphics because it sells, no big studio is going to make games for niche using what is perceived as an obsolete technology.

You need actual skill to make 2D art, small studios also find its easier to produce 3D assets and indies go 2D simply because if you not aiming high, shitty artsy 2D is the easier and fastest thing to do.
Because of that I very much doubt we will see 2D resurrection, undoubtedly there will be studios and peoples that can make a good looking 2D game but I doubt it will go mainstream again, I certainly would not count on another Abe's Exodus or Odyssey.

Technically flash 2D games are a thing, they use different technology than your regular 2D games and because of that I wont count them with traditional 2D art, though most of them are 'meh' looking, some are really good, in case you ever feel an itch for 2D.

Gretel and Hansel has pretty good style and nice ideas.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/515322
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/550407

Johny Rocketfinger is an example of game with extremely simplistic 2D style which actually fit the game better than anything more detailed would.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/78995
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/310635

>> No.3596589

>>3596178
>after 9 years of development
I hope it'll be worth the weight

>> No.3596594

>>3596569
>You need actual skill to make 2D art

Thats the reason right there why 2D graphics were abandoned. The companies run by the greedy suits like ea, sony and ubisoft never were good enough at it to compete with capcom or snk. They simply leveled the playfield.

3D is cheaper and with a paint by numbers enigine like unreal every retarded outfit can have decent 3D graphics. The rest is being handled by their marketing departments. Its all about money in this industry. And most larger videogame companies are worse than the mafia in that respect.

>> No.3596598

>>3596589
>>3596589
It's an owl, I don't think weight is too much of an issue.

>> No.3596601

>>3596594
Those greedy bastards wanting the company to be successful and not go under. Don't they know that games are a service they should be providing for us? Fucking assholes every one of them.

>> No.3596603

>>3596598
>implying owls are birds

>> No.3596624

>>3596601
Exactly. This industry went from what we want, to what THEY want. They are making billions every year. Its far from survival for these clowns unless they blow ALL their money out for coke & hookers.

The fucking suits will be the death of us...
Ruuuuuuuuuun while you still can!

>> No.3596637

>>3596569
>Big studios went 3D and not looking back, especially that they run by suits and suits talk numbers, they talk open world game because it sells, they talk good graphics because it sells, no big studio is going to make games for niche using what is perceived as an obsolete technology.
2D isn't dead at all and big studios are still looking at it, specially since the boom of retro gaming and pixel art shenanigans. Of course realistic 3D gets the most of the attention but 2D still sells. Just look at Ubisoft's Child of Light or at the latest Rayman games.

>> No.3596639

Yes, 2D animation did stagnate but as a game artist I don't really care? A lot of the software and technology that came out of 3D rendering has been really useful for 2D work as well. I get z-ordering, occlusion and parallax effects for free, particle effects galore, all sorts of fun shaders for lighting and effects, more performance than I'll ever need, better scaling with high-res sprites, extensive rigging options, animation blending and procedural scripting etc. etc.

I'm more interested in taking advantage of all those new tools to do awesome stuff instead of sitting around and lamenting what could've been, at the end of the day the quality is only limited by the skill I put into it.

>> No.3596651

>>3596639
As an artist you should care and if you want your work to stand out you should stay away from the paint by numbers effects. Sure its easier, but easy way out doesnt mean your work will be original and stand the test of time.

>> No.3596652

>>3596624
Agreed brother! Fuck people being successful! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.3596689

>>3596651
As another artist (not games), tools are just tools and any can become a crutch, but they don't necessarily need to be. Fellow illustrators gave Rockwell a lot of heck for using a lightbox, but he became one of the most famous and loved artists of the 20th century while changing the face of the industry at the same time.

>> No.3596723

>>3594854
The graphics in Sonic Mania look amazing.

>> No.3596726

>>3596651
There's nothing to care about, the innovations we've had since then has only given me advantages I can use to do better work. The animators and artists stagnated, the technology did not.

On the note, when using shaders I typically have a specific effect in mind. I have more control over the style than the software does.

>> No.3596740

I'm kind of sad this thread gravitated to criticism of the current market. We will always wonder what 2D masterpieces could have existed on powerful hardware and the indie scene is the direct result of 2D being largely abanded too early. I am cautiously optimistic about what Sonic Mania will do to the market and if it will convince rival developers to release "demakes" of thier own popular IPs

>> No.3596743

>>3596740
Gravitated? It's what OP's post is all about.
> We will always wonder what 2D masterpieces could have existed on powerful hardware and the indie scene is the direct result of 2D being largely abanded too early.

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in the whole thread.

>> No.3596745

>>3596743
Why is that stupid?

>> No.3596746

/vr/ is surprisingly defensive about indie games. hmm

>> No.3596751

>>3596743
Asshole. How is what I said wrong in any way? There are only a handfull of fully animated sprite based games released on post 32 bit sytems. We have a few but the gameplay variety is limited and thats when indie stepped in to fill the shoes.

>> No.3596760

>>3594789
From what I remember, 2D wasnt abandoned because it overstayed its welcome.
It was abandoned because 3D was the next big thing even if it looked like shit at the time.
It was just a matter of providing what consumers wanted at the time, 2D games were regarded as inferior because they were simpler and rather limited.
Not to mention that 2D was something people got used quite a bit already.
It was time for something new.

>> No.3596764

>>3595570
I bet you don't even know what literature means. Literature =/= what's cannonical literature. How about you start reading and studying more before spouting more of your nonsense.

Oh wait, you can't cause you're a massive tripfag who only thinks of his own "unique identity" and doesn't contribute ANYTHING to this board so of course you won't do any of that.

>> No.3596767
File: 274 KB, 640x480, indie1-0-0092.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596767

>>3596746
Which is weird because a large portion of the games they love would be classified as indie games if they were made today. "Indie" is /vr's favorite buzzword and I think it's one of the worst terms to plague gaming.

Video games are just video games. Sometimes they're made by huge teams of people working for massive companies, other times they're made by one or two people. Most of the time they're somewhere in the middle and any scenario can lead to amazing or terrible games.

These days some gamers are overly concerned by who made a game, as if it's really important. Maybe this makes me a very odd gamer, but all I care about ultimately is the game. Where it came from is far less important.

>> No.3596768

>>3596764
he is just pretending to be stupid

>> No.3596769

>>3596746
Back to >>>/v/ indiecuck.

>> No.3596771

>>3595528
>Theres good shit and then theres bad shit and its all subjective

Then you might as well say it's useless to discuss any form of art. By your definition, shitting in a can could be considered art while making something on different levels is shit. Lemme guess, you're one of those so-called "post-modern" critics?

Face it, video games have always been a product of mass production, mass commercialisation and dumbing down of the masses unless real forms of art. It's like talking about supermarkets from decades ago and saying how much better they used to be or how they're oh so terrible right now. You can romanticize it all you want but it's all about money in those cases, not about MUH ART.

Do this board a favor and fuck off back to Deviantart, Tumblr or whatever the fuck you came from.

>> No.3596781

>>3596771
There's an important difference between "art" when it's used to apply to fine art and "art" when it's used to apply to commercial illustration.

Discussion of fine art is about intent, meaning and what the work speaks to.

Discussion of illustrated art almost always comes down to personal aesthetic preference.

>> No.3596786

>>3596771
>Do this board a favor and fuck off back to Deviantart, Tumblr or whatever the fuck you came from.

You do yourself a real disservice when you write garbage like this. One assumes you're trying to be taken seriously, but when you write like you're having a tantrum it just makes you look like a lunatic.

>> No.3596791

>>3594995
This is exactly why I've found myself looting gaming's past rather than looking to its future.

>Family didn't have much money, main exposure to gaming as a child came from having a Game Boy (that got stolen), and playing Mega Drive at a friend's house after school
>Little older, grandparents buy me a PSX
>Holy shit this is awesome I think I'll play MGS to completion at least 350 times
>Somehow end up with an N64 too, so many great exclusive games
>End up skipping PS2 due to launch costs, regret not picking up Dreamcast
>Buy Xbox just before Halo 2 releases
>Holy shit this is a HUGE step up gaming can only possibly go to greater heights from here
>Cash windfall, buy 360 on release
>Oh damn look at these graphics, holy shit these Forza games, fuck me Oblivion's massive, why did nobody else buy Lost Odyssey?
>Get busy for a few years, completely abandon gaming due to lack of time
>Come back to it in 2014 expecting to see miracles
>DRM
>Always online
>DLC that ends up costing more than the base game
>Games riddled with glitches and bugs
>Desire to compete with Hollywood, be more "filmic" leading developers to strip 90% of the gameplay from their titles
>Gaming press now corrupt on a level going beyond mere payola
>"""Indie""" gaming scene that produces occasional gems, but is largely comprised of "me too" stringbeans and blue-haired landmanatees with no technical or artistic abilities searching for people to maul over not being "PC" enough

I think I'm going to start playing Snatcher tonight...

>> No.3596792
File: 101 KB, 580x440, 935c7f8670033c523492c58358d2b67fc0588282649684a5943f7af12b8ec1c7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596792

>>3595159
> low-budget, low-effort
Low-budget usually means high-effort for the people involved.
Development time is expensive as fuck.
An indie-dev pretty much has to cut corners everywhere, always ends up with 10% of what he envisioned, and still needs to deliver a decent product.
... somehow

You can hate on Phil Phish all day long, but you have to admit he worked himself to the bone for his game and it did turn out great.
All indie devs do this.

Source:
I build middleware for the industry.
I would never switch places with actual gamedevs.

>> No.3596815
File: 59 KB, 600x337, FEZ-e1334374241343.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596815

>>3596792
>You can hate on Phil Phish all day long, but you have to admit he worked himself to the bone for his game and it did turn out great.

I agree with this a lot. The bits of interviews I saw with him were almost painful to watch, but the actual game was probably in my top 10 of all games last gen.

Some people bitched that it was too indie, some people bitched that Microsoft helped funding so it wasn't indie enough. I think the term "indie" is almost completely meaningless. I just thought it was an amazing game.

>> No.3596838
File: 49 KB, 670x604, fisheen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596838

>>3596771
>>3596764
>>3596751
What's the with spazfest all the sudden? Is this the time of day your meds wear off?

>> No.3596843
File: 25 KB, 266x320, 1424754949174.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596843

>>3596791
Lost odyssey

>> No.3596849

>>3594890
>give up
pathetic

>> No.3596861

>>3596792
>>3596815
They had Microsoft money. Effort wasn't spent by Fish. Renaud Bédard did the goddamn work. Eat shit. You degenerate artfags.

>> No.3596872

>>3596861
Lol why so mad? My point was who made it and what they're like doesn't matter if the game was great.

>Eat shit. You degenerate artfags.

Is this really necessary? You you talk like this in real life? Or do you think around here people will take you seriously when you spout off like this? You sound like you need mental help, friend.

>> No.3596878
File: 13 KB, 236x285, fishc23a2368.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596878

>>3596872
It's a test and you just failed. Quick, coddle him or he will shitpost the thread for the next four days!

>> No.3597119
File: 35 KB, 636x604, received_1181401808587404.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3597119

>>3594849

Lolwut

Get out

On my PC I have a picture of Shantae telling you to go hang yourself, but I'm on my tablet taking a shit and I've only got this picture of her angel face. Have it, and just know that I am requesting you hang yourself

>> No.3597182

>>3597119
>>3594849
Playing through Might Switch Force made me really that maybe WayForward just sucks and it just happens to have cornered the market on "innocuous" pixel T&A.

The games are fun, but god damn does the art style suck for things like cutscenes and menus. Like Shantae.

>> No.3597196

>>3597182
If you've played more of their games, it becomes really evident that Wayforward sucks terribly when it comes to game design, but they have incredibly good artists. It took until Pirate's Curse that Shantae was half-playable and not a stupid chore of trackbacks.

Here's hoping that Half Genie Hero will finally have good gameplay, and won't be just another mediocre game with great art.

>> No.3597231
File: 33 KB, 343x298, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3597231

>>3597196
Good music too. I only got to like the desert dungeon in OG Shantae, but I can see what you mean already. Such cool ideas and character design though.

Oh well. Hey, quick question, is Shantae's hair whip attack based on I Dream of Jeanie's hair flick thing she does?

>> No.3597258

>>3596594
>3D is cheaper
Yeah, I mean, making a sprite actor with 5000+ rotations and angles per frame would probably take a lot of time and disk space, so cost would rapidly mount, and a 3D model would let us achieve the same thing much better, much faster, much cheaper and for a fraction of the space, but we don't want to come across as LAZY, do we?

>> No.3597293

>>3597258
>3D model would let us achieve the same thing much better
Not really better but certainly easier.
Really shame, 2D vidya had really distinctive feel to it, there is stuff you just cant reproduce in 3D right now.
Especially that many backgrounds and screens looked beautiful just because there was this one angle where every tree, house and plant look the best altogether, create a complete picture.
Something that would be lost would you be able to rotate camera in 3D.

>> No.3597319

>>3597293
You can do that in 3D as well if you keep the camera from being rotated.

>> No.3597379

>>3596651
>As an artist you should care and if you want your work to stand out you should stay away from the paint by numbers effects
Yeah, god forbid a piece of entertainment used a reliable method to achieve results.

Making everything from the ground up isn't necessarily convenient when making a game (or movie). It's a different artistic effort than a painting or something like that, you also have to consider that you have a deadline and money is at stake.

>> No.3597381

>>3597119
Hope you post that other pic soon, sounds interesting

>> No.3597401

>>3597293
I'm sorry but did you take a snide and sarcastic shitpost (that borders on a strawman) at complete face value? My point is that 3D allows you to a lot of things which simply would be impossible in 2D.

Sprite based actors either feature no rotations, or they do, either way you can only do so many angles.
What do you do if you see it from straight above? Or from below at an angle? Are you gonna draw an entire set of rotations from every possible angle? 2D has serious limits.

I love 2D and 2.5D games but there comes a point where you want to achieve something, which can only practically (and aesthetically presentably) be done with actual 3D. Making a game like Quake in a 2.5D engine like in Doom or Duke Nukem 3D would not nearly have had the same effect.

It was more than "wow this is modern and next gen" which made people start doing games three dimensionally.

>> No.3597410

>>3596760
It also just allows you to do more.

You couldn't make a game like Super Mario 64 without the third dimension, it's more than just graphics.

>> No.3597421

>>3594952
>Early 3D was CLEARLY shit looking
Far better than early 2D though.

>> No.3597430

>>3596639
I gotta say I don't like much use of calculated effects, especially lighting, in 2D games.
I guess my interest in 2D is in its human-crafted nature, so the more calculated the screen looks, the less appealing it is to me.

For a /vr/ example, I thought the use of mode 7 in Final Fantasy 4 ground dropping away from the airship was neat-looking as an special effect, despite the terrible distortion it has on the map, because it's only used for a relatively small portion of game time. But the way they made the map mode 7 at all times in FF6 even when just walking on the ground is pointless and ugly.

>> No.3597463

>>3597421
>Far better than early 2D though.
Except 3D wasnt competing with early 2D but late 2D, what was your point?

>> No.3597470

>>3595952
Earthworm Jim and Aladdin still look like 16 bit sprites. They don't look like games like Skullgirls or guacamelee

>> No.3597475

>>3594828
the difference is the +2000 team isn't being innovative, but copying 80 and 90s team.s

>> No.3597573

>>3597475
Even worse, devs in 90's tried to make their game as good as possible in 2D.
Devs making 2D games past 2007 doing everything they can to make it look as shitty as possible because that's apparently how they things games looked back then when those games were actually good looking and hold up quite well simply because of that.
Which is why 3D aged worse, 90's 3D always looked like shit.

>> No.3597581

>>3596178
>>3596183
FUCKING SHILL

and it worked. gonna check this out soon anon

>> No.3597587

>>3594796
>>3594820
wow you both posted passive-aggressive porn games nobody actually likes playing

>> No.3597706

>>3594796
>>3594820
>>3594880
>>3594881
>>3594883
>>3594986
>>3595002
>>3595052
>>3596129
>>3596343
Disgusting. Looks like 2003 era flash shit.

>> No.3597729
File: 86 KB, 960x540, mario[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3597729

>>3597706
i dont think you remember the same early 2000s flash i remember

>> No.3597796

>>3597430
Those effects can work well, but you have to go into it knowing exactly how you want it to look. That way you can take the time to tweak it so it strengthens the style instead of detracting it, the thing to avoid is using it out of the box without a clear goal as that means the result will be obviously generic and usually detract from it instead.

I actually do a fair number of custom shaders so I can be even more specific.

>> No.3597810
File: 222 KB, 1440x900, n1EILXF.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3597810

>>3594789

I know were you are coming from OP, looking back the best from the 16bit era and 2D Saturn games were amazing, but things had to go in another direction, despite looking amazing I agree, its time consuming and hard to make 2D.

And in a way, 2D continued to exist, many 90s pc games had this wonderful mixed style were sprites and 3D coexisted.


I think we are coming full circle now, and despite people still caring for graphics we are at a very beginning of a sweet spot were we just need simple practical graphics and robust engines to make videogames so we can just focus art style and gameplay.

>> No.3597884

>>3596259
The fuck is this shit

>> No.3597886

>>3594935
That's weird since AAA spends millions polishing 3D games and only indie devs with lower budget and less staff are cranking out the majority of 2D, yet indie 3D is suffering. It's almost as if 3D requires significantly more investment due to complications, complexity and QC.

>> No.3597893

>>3597886
No they don't, they spend it on aggressive ads.

>> No.3597903
File: 3 KB, 84x117, fake vectors.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3597903

>>3597706
Vector graphics is actually pretty gud for scaling. Its base technology totally avoid the problem of pixelation.

See
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/dida/graphics/bitmapvectorrev3.shtml

>>3597729
It's not our fault that flash devs don't have an art budget.

>> No.3597905

>>3596265
>tasteful and professional
Some of the games turned into freemium shit. Fuck PRO HOS!

>> No.3597907
File: 49 KB, 620x350, 3dpd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3597907

>>3594820
>>3594843
Please post more fat anime titties to make the hipster childer cry.

>> No.3597908

>>3594796
Is Shantae the most lewd thing on Nintendo?

>> No.3597909

>>3597886
Unity doesn't need much investment.
https://unity3d.com/unity/engine-features

And indie devs just steal 3D assets anyway. They are trash now. Get over it.

>> No.3597958
File: 11 KB, 256x192, La-Mulana_gameplay[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3597958

>>3597810
>I think we are coming full circle now, and despite people still caring for graphics we are at a very beginning of a sweet spot were we just need simple practical graphics and robust engines to make videogames so we can just focus art style and gameplay.

What makes you think we are at the very beginning? Maybe this is actually the end. Once VR land, none will be interested in 2D graphics anymore.

>> No.3597968

>>3596129
this

vector looks like work of kids playing with pastels, disgusting

>> No.3597973

>>3596265
>>3596129
>>3597903


Look at Wakfu TV series for the highest quality flash animation you'll ever see.

>> No.3598048

>>3594789
>The gaming industry abandoned 2D just a few years too early in the mid 90s for the sake of innovation
>be a big fan of gorgeous 16-bit art
>Playstation comes out
>friends can't stop singing praise about crappy 3D with shaky textures

I swear, it was like I stepped into the bizarro dimension.

>> No.3598057

>>3598048
it was a weird time trying to convince people Yoshi's Island had better graphics than any PS game out at the time, you could actually tell what everything was supposed to be!

>> No.3598059

>>3598057
Playstation is the time when hardcore tools truly became a thing.

>> No.3598071

>>3595065

Odallus - The Dark Call, Shovel Knight and Hyper Light Drifter are all good 2d indie games with attractive pixel art. There's probably a lot more than I can't think of right now. There's definitely a lot more that use vector art instead (and no, not all of them are ugly as fuck).

There really is no point in complaining that people don't make good 2d games anymore when the indie market is practically oversaturated with quality titles.

>> No.3598080

>>3594841
Neo Geo anon.

>> No.3598089

>>3597958
I've had some fun with 2D games in VR, the one I played just had characters running around on a virtual table.

>> No.3598097

>>3596447
>capitalism leads to tons of varying qualities of games, most of them being shitty cashgrabs
>communism produces one absolutely perfect masterpiece of a game
really makes you think

>> No.3598106

>>3597573
>doing everything they can to make it look as shitty as possible
I don't think anybody would do that on purpose. If a game has shitty pixel art, it's probably because the ones who made it just can't do any better because of lack of money/talent.

>> No.3598107

>>3595369
Too bad the rest of the game SUCKS

>> No.3598113

>>3594890
>It sucks I wish I could get over it but I guess I never will so it's time to give up.
I hope you're being sarcastic. Otherwise, kys.

>> No.3598114

>>3598113
He is clearly being sarcastic. Did you not see his image?

>> No.3598123

>>3595065
Axiom Verge, Bastion, Binding of Isaac, Fez, Mark of the Ninja, MURI, Odallus, Oniken, Organ Trail, Shovel Knight, Starbound, Terraria, Super Cyborg, Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery, Xeodrifter.
Just to name a few.

>> No.3598131

>>3595159
Yeah, only the big corporations are allowed to make games, right? You're a representative of the cancer in today's gaming community.

>> No.3598163
File: 42 KB, 456x301, 1427042925405.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3598163

>>3598097

>> No.3598170

>>3594789
Doom is a pretty bad example in my opinion, as it represents the fascination with 3D and the urge to get there.
Anyway, I feel you, I remember games in magazines downplaying 2D in the PSX era, unless the game was stellar. 3D games got it way easier since 3D was all the rage.

>> No.3598397

>>3594962
3D games only started looking quite good with the 128bits.

>It wasn't until the Dreamcast that I thought home consoles could make 3D games that I thought looked decent enough that I thought they could hold a candle to good looking 2D games
Dreamcast having little aliasing really helped smoothing things up.

>> No.3598408

>>3596447
>>3598097
Tetris was made outside of Russia

>> No.3598409

>>3598170
I remember a British Playstation magazine slating motherfucking Tomba of all games for being 2D and Japanese. I loved that game.

>> No.3598418

>>3598408
Nevermind

>> No.3598528
File: 448 KB, 240x320, 1477783835984.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3598528

>>3596178
>mfw this whole thread was just a viral sting to get /vr/ troopers to check out this game

Well-played.

>> No.3598553

>>3598408

That's not what wikipedia says. Either way, it was made under the soviet regime.

>> No.3598618

>>3598409
Tomba IS 2D, what are you talking about?

>> No.3598664

>>3598528
can confirm was paid $50 to bring up the topic of indie-shit in this thread. 10 more clicks for our game!

>> No.3598735

>>3596178
This is fucking gorgeous

>> No.3598853
File: 11 KB, 594x446, Asteroids.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3598853

>>3594880
>>3594881
>If it doesn't have pixels it's shit.

Jeez, man. What did vectors ever do to you?

>> No.3598935

>>3598097
>makes a really good puzzle game
>gets his efforts stolen by the state for really no compensation
>this really good game gets shamelessly whored for decades
>communism never produced another game worth anyone's time, and eventually fails because communism is autistic and dysfunctional
>original author FINALLY gets his rights back, along with a lot of money which was rightfully his
>can now properly and fairly be sold on a free market by the person who made it happen

Besides that, domestic game development in that part of the world wouldn't hit it's stride until well after the fall of the iron curtain. You bet your ass that Witcher or S.T.A.L.K.E.R would never have seen fair and healthy development with the devs being bullied around by an inept and immoral regime.

>> No.3599042

>>3596129
But there's something wrong with the left image. It looks like someone's put loads of JPEG artifacts on it, then sharpened the edges on maximum.

>> No.3599109

>>3596589
In gold?

>> No.3600095
File: 45 KB, 1000x687, 635983250969769615-1516951306_Millennial.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3600095

>>3595402
get the fuck outta here and dont come back millennial degenerate

>> No.3600137

>>3600095
bla bla bla crt basement dweller

>> No.3600160

>>3600095
>I have no actual argument so I'll just basically adhom him
Reminder that the millennial definition includes people in their 30's, and this suggests you're either a millennial yourself, or you're an old grandpa who doesn't actually like videogames, but is just here to stew in childhood nostalgia, "Games were better in MY day, kids these days, oww my hip"

>> No.3600181

>>3598618
I'm not sure if you're baiting or just stupid cause that's exactly what he said ...

>> No.3600212

Dude, that means every animation would pretty much have to be hand drawn. It would be a huge costs most small studios would have not been able to support. 3D was the natural evolution for video games. There is no such thing as a lost 2D gen.

>> No.3600281
File: 31 KB, 650x300, Tempest12.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3600281

>>3597475
That's factually untrue though. There's tons of innovation now, you just don't see it because you grew up with games in the 80's and 90's being new to you so they didn't look as derivative.

As someone who never really cared about the 2D platformers that followed in the wake of Super Mario's popularity (like Sonic) I found a lot of the big name games of the 80's and 90's boring and derivative.

Now let me make this very, very clear. That doesn't mean my taste is better than yours in any way, or you there's anything wrong with you thinking Sonic is awesome. It's just an illustration that different games are made for different people.

Anyone saying there's no variety in gaming these days can only make that claim if they ignore the incredible variety and creativity happening in "indie" games made by small teams of people.

As someone who grew to love gaming in the era when many games were made by small teams or even individuals, there is nothing bad at all about independent game design. And in terms of independent game design, from my perspective things are better now than they have ever been before. They're not perfect of course, but they've never been better.

>> No.3600282

>>3600181
Slating means predicting. I thought he said they predicted wrong.

>> No.3600303
File: 31 KB, 640x480, TR1 screen006.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3600303

>>3600160
As one of the handful of regular posters around here actually old enough to fall under the grandpa category of being pre-millenial I'd like to reiterate that I think modern gaming is awesome. And that although games like Call of Duty, Minecraft, DotA and undertale don't interest me personally at all, I'm still happy they exist for the people who love them.

I'll even go so far as to say I'm happy people are enjoying the new Tomb Raider even if it has almost nothing to do with the franchise as I loved it. I'm a little sad that it's not a Tomb Raider made just for me, but that's fine because it just gives me more incentive to go out and try more new things.

Games were pretty fucking great in my day, but they're even better in this day.

>> No.3600751

>>3600212
We're getting to a point where 3D is almost more work than 2D would have been though.

>> No.3600765

>>3600751
that's no argument, because photorealism at that level of detail is more praiseworthy than 2d pixel art.

>> No.3600880

>>3600751
To a point.

I recall hearing making Kratos' model for one of the God Of War games (I think the first one) took several weeks.
Although to the be fair, that was also the first time having him designed and conceptualized.

At the same time, making a complete sheet of graphics for a character in Street Fighter 3 probably wasn't a vacation either, that's quite a lot of animation frames.

Really, I just think making a complete character graphic just is going to take time if you want it to look good.

>> No.3600968

>>3596439
>>3594976
JFC it's only AAA games that are cancer. Go look at the massive indie-sphere now. And not just the parts of it that get popular.

>> No.3601023
File: 107 KB, 754x527, owl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3601023

This.

>> No.3601054

>>3594848
>They wanted 4th gen games recycled with better animation / more scaling / rotation and nothing more.
That would have been awesome.

>> No.3601072

>>3597908
You're forgetting Bayonetta 2, which was funded by Nintendo.

>> No.3601085

>>3600968
>it's only AAA games that are cancer
Some AAA games are pretty good.

>> No.3601663

>>3595394
>sonic 3 looks like ass compared to 1, 2, and CD
Burning Angel Island and Hydrocity look fantastic.

>> No.3601668

>>3601023
As someone who knows the devs and was at one point possibly going to work on that game:

This shit didn't take 9 years. That was 8 years of procrastination and shit decisions and 1 year of useful development.

>> No.3601672

>>3601668
Which is a common scenario for many indie games: learning the tools, experimenting, some breaks, etc.

>> No.3601876

>>3594873
>a handfull of games
>a lot

Fatal Fury. Real Bout Fatal Fury. King of Fighters. Metal Slug. Megaman X4 and beyond. Skeleton Warriors. Gex. Alundra. Shining Force 3 (2.5D, still uses sprites). Grandia. Castlevania Symphony of the Night. Bug! Bug Too! Groove on Fight. Samurai Shodown. Shinobi Legions. Clockwork Knight. Golden Axe Battle. Mr. Bones. Scud: The Disposable Assassin. Warcraft 2. Starcraft. Dragon Force. How long I must make this list to be enough for you?

>> No.3601879

>>3601876
And I can also add Heretic, Duke Nukem 3D, Hexen, Strife, Redneck Rampage, Shadow Warrior, Blood, and 10000 other Doom clones.

>> No.3601890

>>3594789
anon i agree with you. 3D was the new thing and PC was also pushing hard towards it, so it couldn't be avoided. But i would have also loved it if one of the big 3 (Nintendo, Sega or Sony) and their 3rd parties would have persistantly sticked with quality 2D or 2.5D games. It would have been another golden age for side scrollers, shmups etc. On the other side of that coin the 16Bit-era would be far less iconic than it is now.

>> No.3601936

Quite a few people, including myself, left consoles for PCs with the rise of 3d shooters like Doom, Descent and later Quake. Consoles didn't have the horsepower to do something like Quake, as we can see how bad Doom was for the SNES even with the enhancement chip. Or Jurassic Park 3d scenes... Compare that to say glQuake or the Descent 3dfx executable and it wasn't even close. Plus with kali you could play Descent multiplayer over tcp/ip, and later Quakeworld introduced the client/server all which the consoles couldn't do and were left behind in the dust. Can't imagine playing Counterstrike or Team Fortress on a console. Going 3d that early made them a joke. They should have stuck to 2d.

>> No.3601946
File: 133 KB, 339x296, fdg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3601946

>>3601936
>comparing 3D accelerators released in 1997 to the SNES and Genesis

>> No.3601954

Not a single person talked to the OP about how hard it is to code in machine.

>> No.3601967

>>3601946
Doom for snes was released in '95 and Descent 3dfx was '96

>> No.3601973

My bad, not 1996, d2 3dfx was jan 8, 1997.

>> No.3601974

>>3601936
Actually early 3D on PS1/Saturn/N64 was ahead of what was on PC.
Consoles had dedicated hardware for 3D which made it easy to program for.
On the other hand, computer had more processing power, which is why 2D games like Doom runs better on PC than it would even on PS1.

Of course it only took a couple of years for PC to catch on and even surpass consoles in that regard as well, when GPUs became more numerous and mainstream.
But there was a time when 3D was better on console than on PC.

You're using terrible examples, and your explanation is anachronistic.

>> No.3601980

>>3601974
And it wouldn't be the last time. When it came out, the 360 was well ahead of what even reasonably high end PC hardware could do. That was the last generation of consoles having their own technology R&D rather than just being repackaged regular PC hardware, though.

>> No.3602058

>>3601974
Not him, but other oldfag here and for the games he was talking about, Doom, Quake, Descent etc all the serious players were on PC. There were many people who switched back then, I think that's all he was talking about.

>> No.3602332

>>3601980
>That was the last generation of consoles having their own technology

That was only 1 generation ago...

>> No.3602412

>>3601980
>>3602332
Nintendo Switch says hi.

>> No.3602425

>>3594935
Not every model in the game needs to be as ultra-detailed as that. I'd argue putting that much effort in to something that is just going to be blasted at is in some sense a waste of resources better employed in enemy death animations, goofy signs (I'm serious) and constantly seen explosion, etc, animations.

>> No.3602506
File: 235 KB, 640x480, 1422714901-walkthrough-mannys-office.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3602506

>>3601936
They did stick to 2D. There were very few fully 3D games in the 16 bit era. Mostly it was isometric 3D effects, or sprite rotation based like vid related.

Even 5th gen consoles did not shift exclusively to 3D and fully 3D games were in the minority.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZKsQ09qOk4

You are also seriously overestimating the amount of 3D games, especially quality 3D games, which initially came out on PC. Even up to I would say 1998/9, most PC games were not fully 3D. Even those that were suffered from a lot of early 3D issues like art design, speed, and especially controls.

FPSes were easiest to design controls and interfaces for, and matured early on. But almost all other genres moved only with great reluctance to 3D. There was a lot of prerendered background and use of sprites, and not simply for technology reasons. 3D was and is hard to get looking and feeling right outside of FPSes.

>> No.3602570

>>3600880
>At the same time, making a complete sheet of graphics for a character in Street Fighter 3 probably wasn't a vacation either, that's quite a lot of animation frames.
Dudley took 3 months to animate. "Several weeks" is a lunch break by comparison.

>> No.3602731
File: 10 KB, 271x135, sonics_standing.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3602731

>>3595484
>Sonic 3 sprite looks fucking derpy

For sure, sonic 1 & 2 are the best.

>> No.3603235

>>3602332
Yep. And from now until the end of the industry, everything's just going to be other stuff repackaged.
>>3602412
The Switch is the closest to hardware innovation, I'll give it that.

>> No.3603250

>>3600303
Shut up, faggot.

>> No.3603286
File: 12 KB, 670x277, Sonic Genesis Sprites 2x.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3603286

>>3602731

>> No.3603395

>>3594838
I really liked that game and the ending

>> No.3603398

I hate vector
just delete the concept

>> No.3603695
File: 329 KB, 980x1428, code-of-princess.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3603695

>>3597908
Not even close. Shantae doesn't even have 3D enhanced bouncing boobs. "Guardian Heroes 2" is pretty lewd.

>> No.3604356

>>3600751
It'll plateau eventually.

>> No.3605194

>>3594967
The problem is when the animation is solely using bones, bones are really good but only to supplement actual frame by frame animation.

That's why indieshit bones look bad, they use them in place of frame by frame animation instead of using them both.

>> No.3605738

>>3603695
Is that game actually any good?

>> No.3605885

>>3603695
I couldn't play this game without a boner

>>3605738
It's actually pretty decent, it plays a lot like guardian heroes as he insinuated, but its story cray cray and the protag is super lewd

>> No.3607298

>>3603286
\Why does every Sonic character look so fucking derpy?

>> No.3607634
File: 553 KB, 500x448, guardianoqda3o1_500.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3607634

>>3605738
It's okay. Like >>3605885 said it does have a pretty crazy story and is a good deal of fun but it got a little grindy for my tastes.

Guardian Heroes is more like an arcade game, it takes maybe an hour or two to play through and has tons of branching paths. So it's a really fun game for repeated playthroughs, especially if you have friends over.

CoP on the other hand is much much longer which is good in some ways because it has a lot of content, but it makes it less arcadey. If you liked Guardian Heroes though it's definitely worth checking out.

>> No.3607812
File: 130 KB, 748x700, 1452390546200.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3607812

>>3594789
Sonic's first game is fast,

His physics, unsurpassed.

His early games, really great;

But all too soon, out of date.

When "D" subsides to "3."

So fanboys can't concede,

So Sega lost their way,

Nothing fast can stay.

>> No.3607936

>>3594789
The problem is, the rush for 'fidelity' and 'realism'. 90's hyped everyone up with the mad dream of virtual reality, and everyone assumed that something straight out of cyberpunk novels was just around the corner! So 'closer to reality' became more important than 'looking better'.

Recently, slowly, industry seems to slowly have realized that this pursuit results in games that costs hundreds of millions of dollars to make, even when it's not always appropriate. Slowly, we're getting closer to realizing that after decades of pursuit of 'realism' while we are closer, we're still far away - and game budgets have skyrocketed to the point where one failed game is enough to endanger future of an entire studio. We're getting more games that care less about fidelity, and more about graphical style - and that's good, and hopefully will become a trend. And perhaps, 2D might make a comeback, who knows. We ARE slowly getting more 2D games, even from bigger companies like Ubisoft (Rayman Origins) and SEGA (Sonic Mania).

(Also in the OP - why is sonic's skin yellow-ish in the last sprite? I get that this is to reflect modern design, but in the game, clashing of reddish tint and blue quills would draw more attention, which is important in a video game - interactive characters need to draw attention, and DEFINITELY you need to always be able to instantly tell where your character is just by glancing on the screen).

>> No.3607965
File: 60 KB, 440x382, trueliesforsupernintendo1994.0102.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3607965

>>3607936
I hope it leads to more stylized looking games, can't hurt to try to make some of them look like cartoon or anime, or to just give things a caricature style.

I always liked the way True Lies looked, and it'd be interesting to see a style like that pursued in full 3D, with the right kind of shaders.

>> No.3607969

>>3607936
Oh yeah, Sega was making Sonic 2D again, that strikes me as the correct way to go because the 3D ones all seem to be hot garbage, like the character and gameplay isn't suited for 3D

>> No.3608010

>>3607812
So this is the "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux..." of /vr/ now?

>> No.3609278

>>3595449
>I must try my damn hardest to be wrong on the internet at all costs aaaaaaaaah!

>> No.3609396

>>3594789
This is a false idea. When 3d games started coming out, that is all people wanted. New Genesis games filled the gap. Nobody was going to buy another console to do slightly better 2d games. Everyone wanted 3d games. The Saturn could have used a 3d Sonic, or other game, like Ecco. But there is no lost generation. We got 4 awesome Sonic games on one console and many other games just at the right time. People kept playing genesis until N64 came out and later. Today's retro / indie games don't even come close to the 16 bit gen.

Now I am hyped as hell for Sonic Mania, but only because of how detailed it looks. I like that it won't go too far off concept like every other Sonic Game.

The idea of a lost generation existing is so false. Saturn bombed so hard. You collectors that think Saturn was awesome are totally deluded. Nobody wanted it. Its not a great system to collect for either. Saturn is overpriced.

When its 3d time, you go 3d.
SEGA was way ahead of time with every game, every peripheral. That means sometimes not everything they came out with was good timing or what people wanted. But I'll tell you what, I wanted to play Panzer Dragoon, not another 2d game. When N64 came out, all I wanted was 3d Mario.

N64 was the one that killed 2d gaming.

>> No.3609602

>>3594814
>You're not mad that there aren't any 2D games anymore. You're mad that there aren't ONLY 2D games anymore.
I would say that he's mad that major studios rarely make 2D games anymore.

>> No.3610378

>>3609602
Huh, well I suppose if someone only cared about 2D games and major studios that would be a problem... I sure am glad I'm not him.

>> No.3610382
File: 586 KB, 347x270, Legend of Oasis jR6GMW.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3610382

>>3609396
>You collectors that think Saturn was awesome are totally deluded.

Funny, I love my Saturn and it's games.

> Nobody wanted it.

I wanted it. I still want it. It rocks.

>Its not a great system to collect for either.

Doesn't a system being great to collect for depend on how many games it has that you like?


>Saturn is overpriced.

By what metric?

>> No.3610962

>>3594796
>heart where her pussy is

What a love machine

>> No.3610964

>>3594834
>I think Sonic might be one of the ugliest game series of all time

Your brain is wrong

>> No.3610991

I expected 2D to become even better now that ridiculous hardware limitations simply don't exist anymore. It's a whole new world compared to programming the NES with its picture processing units and sprite limits per scanline. None of this bullshit exists anymore. Now you can compose 2D graphics however the hell you want and that's what gets shown.

>> No.3610997

>>3594960
What mobile games have good 2D sprite work? I want to play them!

>> No.3611007

>>3594976
>>The gap between computers and consoles disappeared, now we have a watered-down mixture of both.

The age of exceedingly limited hardware is over! Good riddance.

>>3594995
>>predatory "free to play" gambling schemes

Now THIS is objectively worst thing to ever happen to video games. It's like the industry realized they could apply drug dealer's techniques to suck money out of gamers. Casinos are regulated for a reason.

So many phone games designed to hijack the shit out of your brain's reward system. I get so mad I actually start having more fun cheating at them. I reversed one game's network protocol and made a small bot for myself.

>> No.3611017

>>3611007
>Now THIS is objectively worst thing to ever happen to video games
Thankfully it mostly only happens with shitty low budget titles on mobiles and in flash/facebook.

>I reversed one game's network protocol and made a small bot for myself.
Sounds cool, what does it do?

>> No.3611086

>>3596815
>>3596792
fishstick pls

>> No.3611087

>>3597729
HEY SCHWEY

>> No.3611132

>>3611087
SHIGGITY SHIGGITY SHWA

>> No.3611149

>>3611017
The most basic thing the bots do for me is log in.

These glorified casino PvP games thrive on countdowns and "bonuses" for loyal players and mechanisms that encourage the player to login all the time (and get addicted like a crack user in the process).

For example, one game series (yes, series, the company literally took the same game with the same backing API and rebranded it as zombie survival) has a VIP system where you get points for logging in daily. My bot automatically reaps those benefits for many accounts and saves my brain from their bullshit positive reinforcement.

This same series has "missions" feature, which is literally nothing but a box with a description like "give a speech for your men at one of your fallen soldier's funeral", a time frame that counts down once you start it, and a set of rewards based on that time frame. Less gameplay than visual novels. My bot automatically does every single mission and reaps every single reward.

It's a PvP game with alliances and you build a city with resource production buildings and you research military technology (it's all just a whole bunch of timers). I turned my bots into a self-aware cluster that's smart enough to share resources and automatically develop their accounts according to a user-defined priority queue of upgrades.

The deepest insult to this fuckwit company is how there's no way they can possibly claim I am a cheater besides changing the network protocol and so that my bot's use of outdated protocol gets it banned. Everything the bot does, a normal player can also do, and there are people obsessive/brainjacked enough to do it. There's no statistical difference; the bot's just a really assiduous player. Their target audience!

They're so lazy, their backend is literally a JSON HTTP API. Can't be easier to parse. I regularly scrape it to retrieve player's world map positions and charge suckers a bunch of dollars for that info so they can attack each other.

>> No.3611172

>>3611149
That's fucking neat.

>> No.3611189

>>3611172
There are specific times when the timers reset; for example the VIP points timer is once each 24h; the missions reset every 6h. I simply programmed the bot to log into the game at random times with around 6h interval and do everything that can be done and then just disconnect.

It's like using Twitter's API; they tell you how often you can connect before they tell you they're abusing their system. X requests per Y hours. You just stay under those limits and its all good.

Honestly the only reason I even play these games is I ended up meeting some cool people. That was enough of a reason for me to stay.

Interesting thing is I found another guy in-game who had figured out how to make a "player position finder" utility, just like me. Turns out the data was there all along and the game client simply didn't feel like showing it to you, so we built a better game client ourselves because who said we needed to use the shitty, laggy, constantly-disconnecting, crashing official game client?

Even if they gave a single fuck about anti-cheating it wouldn't matter because I don't even run their client anyways; I talk directly to their servers. But its not like these people actually care about this crap. You run the game for the first time and they automatically register you. You just get an account ID, just like that. This thing is made for bots. Now I'm left wondering just how cheap these games are to run. There are items priced at $100 in their things-that-don't-actually-exist store, and I can actually bypass all of that because bots give me such an advantage I can max out their silly get-X-points events and win their top prize items.

>> No.3611193

>>3611189
>You run the game for the first time and they automatically register you. You just get an account ID, just like that.

Just to clarify: this is a tell-tale sign of the company that just wants to make money. They don't care to actually verify you're not making a million accounts or generally make things hard (not impossible) for people like me, they just get you into the game as soon as possible. All they care about is their precious conversion rate.

What do you find in-game? A whole bunch of ads for grossly overpriced junk that doesn't even exist and brainjacking mechanisms to make you want to buy that bullshit. The second you log in they shove a full screen ad onto your face regarding their latest everyday "5x gold sale".

The average player of this game spends more money on these idiotic scams than everyone in this thread has spent on their steam accounts. Their entire business models are based around "whales", essentially rich fucks who don't give a fuck and willingly blue pill themselves into these pay-for-dopamine-release thinly-veiled drugs disguised as games. They sink some thousands into this crapware, win and presumably their stress level is reduced. Fuck man I got some people added on LINE that reek of this, they even look like rich upperclassmen. Let's do some clinical trials and get this shit FDA approved as the least cost-effective treatment for depression ever invented. Or banned since its a counterfeit casino.

>> No.3611273

>>3610964
>A sonic fan who doesn't understand personal preferences

Why are you people always such cliches?

>> No.3611285

>>3611273
Your face is cliché

>> No.3611351

>>3611149
>>3611193
>>3611189
Sounds like a lot of effort for such a shitty game.

>> No.3611369

>>3611193
>The average player of this game spends more money on these idiotic scams than everyone in this thread has spent on their steam accounts.

Wow which game is that? Most FTP games struggle to get even a fraction of a percent of it's players to pay anything. If the average player is spending more than people's steam accounts that's really something.

>> No.3611375
File: 551 KB, 919x720, 1segjgfj.wizardchan.1393823552345.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3611375

>>3611285

>> No.3611443

>>3610382
>Saturn is overpriced.
>By what metric?

For the millenial collectors of /vr/ any price higher than the rock bottom it once sank to is a personal insult.

>> No.3611529

>>3611351

That shitty game doesn't matter. Programming this thing has always been the real game to me. It's my project. This is the real fun. It even occasionally earns me a couple bucks

>>3611369

That's true, but the target audience of this game isn't the guys who don't pay. The target audience is the people who are so addicted they fall prey to the sunk cost fallacy. Oh I already dumped $100 on this fucking epic human hero pack... Might as well dump more right? I've gotten so far already... What's truly hilarious is you don't pay for the powerful hero, you pay for a card that gives you the CHANCE to win the hero. That's what makes it a casino. It preys on people's poor impulse control. Man this fucking timer's taking so long and there's an event going on... I need to speed it up to win... Oh how convenient, they're selling that shit!

I'm part of several top in-game alliances and whenever a good sale starts they all buy in-game stuff by the dozens. I know because every time they do, the rest of the alliance also gets a gift item of rarity proportional to how much they spend. These stupid gifts expire after 24h so you're encouraged to login every single day to collect them and get brainjacked in the process. The more of them you collect, the higher the alliance's gift level becomes, meaning better rewards, further driving behavior.

Pay2win doesn't quite say it. Its literally a group of players trying to outpay each other. The non-paying players likely get bored and leave; this probably happens continuously until essentially only the top-most players and alliances remain. When the number of players gets low enough they merge two servers into one.

And that's just one of the games I know... There's another one called Magic Rush Heroes. Has anime tits all over the place. You won't believe the absurd amounts of money people drop into this game. There are characters you pay outta the ass to get a weak version, then pay to make it strong.

>> No.3612740

>>3611149
>These glorified casino PvP games thrive on countdowns and "bonuses" for loyal players and mechanisms that encourage the player to login all the time

>>3612732

Man... What has gaming turned into

>> No.3613875

>>3595129
This desu.

Some faggots think they're making 8-bit games but all the sprites have different resolutions and text is anti-aliased. What the fuck.

>> No.3613945

>>3613875
That doesn't bother me nearly as much as 32-bit color graphics with scaling, translucency and rotating being described as 8-bit.

>> No.3613969

>>3607298

But it does't.

>> No.3614990

>>3613875
>>3613945
Neither of those people actually thinks they are making something 8-bit. They are making something with a retro styled aesthetic.

>> No.3614998

>>3614990
I see people blatantly label it 8-bit sometimes.

>> No.3615054

>>3614998
Probably 8bit inspired aesthetic is what that means.

>> No.3615065

>>3615054
>this is 8bit aesthetic
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1AXWu-gGX6LNsfQ-KkeGPxL76CFONTom

>> No.3615069

>>3615054
8-bit inspired aesthetics would be something like Shovelknight

>> No.3615201
File: 780 KB, 960x544, monster_hunter_generations_header_feature.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3615201

>>3611529
>That's true, but the target audience of this game isn't the guys who don't pay. The target audience is the people who are so addicted they fall prey to the sunk cost fallacy.

Everything you've said about this game sounds awful. Why would waste any time at all on it, let alone enough to be part of several top alliances? Even if you aren't a paying player, why would you support a game like that with your time and fandom? I mean this is a serious commitment to a game that it doesn't even sound like you like. If it's all just programming research that's one thing, but it seems like an odd way to go about it.

Going out on a limb, I am guessing you're one of the posters here who thinks badly of modern gaming. And if so this then would explain it some. Part of why I have liked every era of games (including this one), is that I am extremely picky about what I actually want to spend my time on and ignore what I don't. Games that I think look either bad or just not to my tastes I don't play. I look for what is interesting and focus on that. Doing so my favorite games have rarely been what's popular, but that doesn't matter. I may not give a shit about Sonic the Hedgehog, but Genesis was still one of my favorite systems ever. Even with that there's never been a time when I had trouble finding stuff I enjoyed and wanted to play. In fact the opposite is true.

So now look at our current gaming experiences, you spend a lot of time with badly made and exploitative games that it doesn't even sound like you enjoy outside of the people you meet. I play demos and look into the genres and styles of games I like until I find something I enjoy then play that.

As a result one of us is convinced that gaming is in the worst mess it's ever been and everything sucks and there's nothing good to play. Meanwhile the other has a constant backlog of stuff he loves and can't decide what to spend time on next.

>> No.3615261

>>3615201
>Part of why I have liked every era of games (including this one), is that I am extremely picky about what I actually want to spend my time on and ignore what I don't.
This fits me to a T.

>> No.3615386
File: 170 KB, 500x500, 1386411597356.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3615386

Jesus fucking christ this thread..

I had no idea people got so irretrievably asspained about pixels..

The fuck happened to you /vr/? You used to be comfy bro tier all day every day.

>> No.3615424

>>3615386
Autism took hold badly.

>> No.3615462

>>3594863
Mortal Kombat games on the SNES were "downports" too, they were originally developed on arcade machines which were way more powerful than the SNES.

>> No.3615471

>>3596319
How is Turrican 2 an example of "indie trash"?

>> No.3615483

>>3596767
Again, Turrican games are not "indie". Factor5 was a successful dev studio in the 90s and the Turrican games for Amiga were published by Rainbow Arts who had a substantial catalogue of games under their belt.

>> No.3615487

>>3596760
This. In the mid 90s consumers were duped by the marketing slogans "3D" and "CD". This is the secret of the success of the original Playstation.

>> No.3615502

>>3596764
>massive tripfag
Yea, attack the tripfag for massive damage!

>> No.3615504
File: 51 KB, 546x455, fishing hot girl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3615504

>>3615424
This. Mentally ill assholes now use this place to post "lightly salted bait" meant to test how we will react to people with emotional issues. Old /vr/ was great. New /vr/ is painful.

>> No.3615585

>>3615483
Not him but Wayforward is bigger than Factor5 was and they're indie

>> No.3615589

>>3615487
>consumers were duped
Yeah, how dare developers want to make video games with true three dimensional spaces!
Don't they know videogames should all be sidescrollers and topdown shooters?
I cried when id Software raped my wallet

>> No.3615886

>>3615504
if it wasn't for the head I would have just assumed that was a man...

>> No.3616030

>>3615487
>This is the secret of the success of the original Playstation.

No that was good games.

>> No.3616230
File: 106 KB, 800x1099, su18j4mz7xdzfkwjpg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3616230

>>3615589

>> No.3616642

>>3615201
>Everything you've said about this game sounds awful.

It is.

>Why would waste any time at all on it, let alone enough to be part of several top alliances?

Well, the only reason I still log into these games is the people. I met a lot of people in-game and I like them enough to stay around.

>Even if you aren't a paying player, why would you support a game like that with your time and fandom?

Support? If anything I'm deliberately ruining the game by botting it all the way to hell.

By just existing, the bot accounts generate a ton of resources passively. By logging in daily, the account is developed, improving its passive resource generation. By having them scan the map a bit, they generate intelligence that players can't acquire easily.

I can sell all of this for real money. I can sell resources, accounts, information, pretty much everything. People have bought all of those from me. Literally a bunch of numbers on some cheap ass company's database.

I'm an agent of in-game inflation.

>If it's all just programming research that's one thing, but it seems like an odd way to go about it.

Well at first it was just as you said. Why am I spending so much time on this idiotic game? It's just a cheap game designed to harvest as much money as possible... But I already know everyone, already have an OK account... Well I guess I'm not immune to the sunk cost fallacy.

So used my skills in order to save my own time. This game really wants me to login at least once every six hours. The first thing I did: automate that. Now I don't have to do anything at all if I don't want to. I defeated this stupid company's most basic scheme.

That's how the project started. Eventually it became much, much more fun than the game itself.

>> No.3616663
File: 230 KB, 600x388, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3616663

>>3615201
>one of the posters here who thinks badly of modern gaming

I love gaming in general.

However, this isn't really gaming. This is gambling. The video games industry is taking money-grabbing lessons from that seedy part of society. Probability is at the very root of today's game mechanics and I don't mean that in the poker sense.

You don't get items. You get a bunch of boxes/crates/cards/tokens which may or may not actually give you what you want. Sometimes you gotta buy these things; sometimes you get them free but can't actually use them because they're locked or something and you gotta buy the key.

Cashing in on your frustration by being as annoying as possible and then letting you pay your way out. They add timers to stuff just so you can pay to speed them up. The mere option to pay for something you'd have to work to get means its pay2win. It invariably degenerates into "whoever pays the most wins". You bet your ass those top alliances are spending ridiculous amounts of money to remain at the top.

I simply refuse to call anything that does this crap a "game". My issue isn't with any generic notion of "modern" gaming or whatever. My problem's with games that are straight up designed to bullshit you. You'll find this shit everywhere now. Phones, consoles, Steam.

>you spend a lot of time with badly made and exploitative games

I spent time on the game until it became clear to me how stupid the whole thing was. Then I made a computer program to spend time on the game for me and hundreds of other accounts. I'm not trying to beat other players anymore. I'm trying to beat the game.

Considering how much I learned along the way and the fact I even made some money, I can definitely say this was a worthwhile use of my time.

>As a result one of us is convinced that

Only thing I'm convinced of is that game companies want your money and they're learning to be a little too efficient at taking it.

Dunno how that could possibly translate to "everything sucks".

>> No.3616735

>>3616663
>You don't get items. You get a bunch of boxes/crates/cards/tokens which may or may not actually give you what you want. Sometimes you gotta buy these things; sometimes you get them free but can't actually use them because they're locked or something and you gotta buy the key.
I don't think I've personally played a game which does this.

But then, I don't play Team Fortress or Overwatch or stuff.

>> No.3616742

>>3616735
I played Team Fortress Classic back in the day. Played Team Fortress 2 before it was even released. I stopped playing after it became a modern MMORPG. Same about Counter Strike.

>> No.3616749

>>3616742
Well I remember liking Team Fortress Classic a lot as a kid (never played the original Quake one though), but I never got into TF2, I don't think I really liked the cartoony style as much.

I did hear the game changed with the introductions of hats, but I never really looked into it to understand what happened.

Also how's CSGO different from CSS? I kinda liked CSS back in the day.

>> No.3616753

>>3594789
>The gaming industry abandoned 2D just a few years too early in the mid 90s for the sake of innovation.
No they didn't

>> No.3616760

>>3616749
>Also how's CSGO different from CSS?

https://csgostash.com/

>I kinda liked CSS back in the day.

Me too.

Valve hadn't discovered the wonders of virtual merchandising back then. Now even Steam itself is made out of badges you can collect*. The first ones are free** though. Gotta hook people.

* Buy.
** Come with the game you bought.

>> No.3616763

i just dreamed about mischief makers on n64 last night. just wanted to say.

>> No.3616904
File: 89 KB, 600x417, 1365621859109.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3616904

>>3616763
>mischief makers

>> No.3616907

>>3616904
I don't get it. Only people with no girlfriends played mischief makers?

>> No.3617242

>>3616663
>I love gaming in general.
>However, this isn't really gaming. This is gambling.
>I simply refuse to call anything that does this crap a "game".


You can call it whatever you want, but bambling is also gaming. Blackjack and Roulette are both designed from the ground up to be addictive while siphoning money out of your pocket and they're both games. What's more they're very popular games and have been for hundreds of years.

"Game" doesn't necessarily mean fair and it doesn't necessarily mean good. Even "popular game" doesn't necessarily mean good. It just means a lot of people like it, but likes aren't universal.

So it sounds like you've been playing a modern incarnation of one of these gambling based casino style games. Which is fine if that's what you want to play and spend your time on, just like it's fine for people to play Blackjack if they want.

But it's also possible to completely ignore games like that and still have boatloads of things to play. Personally I wouldn't even visit the website of the things you described to avoid giving them something as minor as hits. But that's just me.

>> No.3617809

>>3607634
>CoP
?

>> No.3617875

>>3617242
With Blackjack you know exactly what you're getting and it doesn't feature a tenth of the morally-reprehensible game design of these "games". Casinos are at least decent enough to know when to stop. These stupid mainstream "games"? They're brain conditioning centers disguised as games. They're all based on Microsoft games research on how to shape player's behavior, which is itself based on research on how to get rats to do whatever the fuck you want.

>> No.3617889
File: 77 KB, 481x322, 1478765370209.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3617889

>>3617875
>Casinos are at least decent enough to know when to stop.
>These stupid mainstream "games"? They're brain conditioning centers disguised as games.

>> No.3618018

>>3616907
I think that the idea is that the NPCs resemble Wojak

>> No.3618885
File: 361 KB, 174x172, 1333548559262.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3618885

>>3617875
>These stupid mainstream "games"? They're brain conditioning centers disguised as games.

Worse than blackjack is a tall order, that's a game that has ruined many many lives and most casinos do not know (or care) when to stop. But if it's that horrible I think that's all even more reason to steer completely clear of games of that nature. Personally I'm glad I don't even know the name of the games you're talking about.

With so many other amazing games in the world today there's really no reason at all to give shit like that so much as the time of day.

>> No.3619167

>>3618018
Ahhh I get it now. I should play Mischief Makers some time. Only ever rented it once, didn't seem bad but I never went back to it.

>> No.3619190

>>3617875
>""""""""""""""""""""""""""games""""""""""""""""""""""""""

I'm sorry are you Jack Thompson?

>> No.3619327

>>3619167
You aren't missing much. I like most Treasure games but it's meh at best.

>> No.3619390

>>3619190
Jack Thompson didn't give a fuck about games not being games, he was just an anti violence and sex dude.

>> No.3619439

>>3619390
And he didn't even really care about that. He was just an opportunist trying to make money off the scandal.

>> No.3619473

>>3594848
No, they wanted classic genres continued instead of abandoned.

>> No.3619479

>>3619473
Genre isn't necessarily tied to 2D or 3D graphics though. Genres that were popular like 2D fighting games continued even though many of them switched to 3D graphics engines. The genres that died out did so largely due to lack of popularity, but thanks to the small games market now some of those are finally seeing resurgences.

>> No.3619514

>>3616760
Isn't that just for hats and icons and stupid shit like that though?

>> No.3619854

>>3619473
>drawn out and cheapened instead of taken in a different direction

>> No.3619861

>>3619479
>The genres that died out did so largely due to lack of popularity
Kinda reminds me of that one guy who geniunely thought that the planned Castlevania title for the 32X was going to "save Classicvania", and how he would rather have a completely wildcard entry on a stillborn console than for the series to go a different direction (that it did regardless of Symphony, which he felt was an insidious betrayal by Konami).

There's some crazy people on this board.

>> No.3619881
File: 146 KB, 600x600, 1476780606609.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3619881

>>3616907

a Mischief Makers speedrunner proposed to his gf live after beating the game.
He also timed what he was saying to match the game's ending at some parts.

>> No.3620578

>>3619861
>There's some crazy people on this board.

There sure are, I remember that. Some people don't seem to get that the reason Metroidvania took off as much as it did was because it was so popular. Or, they recognize it but think it's a bad thing because it's not what they wanted.

>> No.3620705

>>3617809
Code of Princess. Spiritual successor to Guardian Heroes.

>> No.3621170

>>3619881
I hope she said no.

>> No.3621237
File: 854 KB, 973x794, biblio.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3621237

>>3595570
>implying literature isn't art
books =/= literature

>> No.3621267
File: 241 KB, 1434x749, indies.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3621267

The real problem with indie games...

>> No.3621272
File: 28 KB, 57x110, RedArcueid.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3621272

>>3621267
That version of melty blood was released in 2011. At that point, I don't think French Bread could be considered an indie studio. They certainly aren't now.

OG 2002 melty was garbage.

>> No.3621301

>>3621170

She said yes and they're married now. She was also quite the qt.

>> No.3622210
File: 1.32 MB, 1920x1080, niffelheimscreenshot_6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3622210

>>3621267
Cherry picking

>> No.3622354

>>3620578
>Some people don't seem to get that the reason Metroidvania took off as much as it did was because it was so popular
It's something that took a while too, it wasn't until the 2000's they made the second one.

>> No.3622647

>>3622354
4 years isn't a long time.

>> No.3622659
File: 26 KB, 298x360, Cherry picking.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3622659

>>3621267
FWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET

>> No.3622741

>>3616663
The closest I came to this was buying a load of colours on Draw Something (not with real money, credits earned by playing). Then I fell on hard times and sold my smartphone to Envirofone.

Thank fuck. Never owned a smartphone since. Good riddance to that shit.

>> No.3622782

>>3616663
>dat Megaman X screen

Is this real? Can you also get the upgrades the usual way? Or is it just pay only now?

>> No.3622941

>>3622741
Hopefully I'll help killing it.

>>3622782
It's real and you can get it both ways.

>> No.3623538

>>3622647
A lot can happen in four years.

>> No.3623821

>>3623538
It's still a short period of time. Metroidvania took off because it was popular, CotM proved that even if it took them a few years to make it.

>> No.3623967

Sonic 3 looks different because they tried to make everything look 3D.

I mean just look at the title screen. It doesn't look that great now but that game really was all about technical innovation so i don't really mind it looking a little more dated than Sonic CD.

>> No.3623989

>>3623967
The result was ass though. Even pre-rendered DKC shit looked better.

>> No.3624682

>>3615471
he was only pretending to be retarded

>> No.3625174 [DELETED] 

>>3594796
UGH, NOT RETRO!

>> No.3625236
File: 147 KB, 600x445, Approving Dad Cat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3625236

>>3600303
This was a good post.
I like you anon, you keep me feeling like games aren't shit and things are alright.

>> No.3625281
File: 796 KB, 1745x1375, F1WCBtL_MCD_JP_Box_Back.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3625281

>>3594789

Very true what you said, and is also a major part of why I still play retro games almost exclusively, unfortunately the developers back then prioritized new 3d tech not so wisely, not recognizing the artistic beauty of 2d still being far superior than the new 3d. For sure 2d had more to offer us back then. Heck even today what i would give to have a 60 fps version, and slighty improved 2d graphics on 'F1C-beyond the limit' on sega cd. And on on that note how hard would it be to accomlish said task today independently? Would one need to know assembly? how hard would it be, seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PdXabU6RGw

>> No.3625282

>>3625174
Did you just throw a fucking spergy tantrum over a post that is three weeks old?

Did you, just throw a temper tantrum, over a three-week old post?

Did you, someone who is expected to be an adult, just lose your shit over a post that's been sitting there for three weeks?

>> No.3626079

>>3625236
Things are going just fine. Like always just don't waste your time with games you don't enjoy and all is well.

>> No.3626146

>>3622210
It doesn't pretend to be le retro game at least. Your one looks really nice.

>> No.3626268

>>3625281
>And on on that note how hard would it be to accomlish said task today independently? Would one need to know assembly? how hard would it be, seriously?
Assembly isn't hard much, it's just tedious.
When systems were about megahertzes and kilobytes, it wasn't a hard task to handle all resources manually. You could use a high-level language, but not for resource-heavy tasks. For example, Sonic Spinball is written on C, and how it slow is.

>> No.3628441 [DELETED] 
File: 10 KB, 180x234, pigoutservicemanual.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3628441

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action