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3564474 No.3564474 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

A thread for retro strategy RPG/simulation RPG/turn-based tactics games, like Langrisser, Sakura Taisen, Daisenryaku, Super Robot Taisen, Tactics Ogre, etc. What are your favorites?

>> No.3564482

Jagged Alliance 2

>> No.3564483

Which Langrisser should I play and on which system? (preferably english)

>> No.3564492

>>3564483
I only just barely played the Genesis version, Warsong. I may try it on the Saturn in Japanese if I can find a cheap copy and a guide with the menu translations.

>>3564482
Fantastic game. I need to finish it someday.

>> No.3564503

>>3564474
My favourites are Fire Emblem Thracia 776, Langrisser IV, and Front Mission 2.

>>3564483
Der Langrisser (super famicom) is a good intro since it's pretty simple and the story is pretty good (branching routes, etc). However if you're more of a tactics fan than a jrpg fan you might prefer Langrisser II (mega drive). The the level design, music, and difficulty are a bit better.

>> No.3564540

>>3564474
I played X-Com: Apocalypse so much that on one playthrough I had reached some kind of bug where after a certain date the game would just lock-up. On subsequent playthroughs I wound up wearing the CD out so much I couldn't perform a complete install anymore, just a partial one.

In short, lots of fun and replayability.

>> No.3564551
File: 122 KB, 640x640, Super Robot Taisen F.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3564551

Are Super Robot Taisen F and F Final playable without knowing Japanese?

>> No.3564768
File: 266 KB, 640x448, SRWF_Seti.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3564768

>>3564551

There is a full english guide online.
I mean, it's an RPG, so of course you would need to know at least some basic stuff. If you're good memorizing moonrunes, even if you don't know what they actually mean but you can remember what each command does, yeah you can get through the game without reading japanaese.
Good luck beating Seti-sama, though.

>> No.3564791
File: 220 KB, 1914x1038, i66^cimgpsh_orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3564791

Recently i played Vanguard bandits on ps1.
tight game, and it has multiple story paths you can take, also the dialogue is top notch. pic realeted

>> No.3564897
File: 180 KB, 600x400, srpg-september.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3564897

So what's the earliest usage of the term SRPG in Japan?

I know that tactical combat in RPG dates back to The Dragon& Princess and Ultima III, but at that time nobody called them SRPG. There must be an instance where suddenly "simulation RPG" comes out to describe a game.

Is it the first Fire Emblem?

>> No.3564916
File: 218 KB, 250x371, FamicomWarsbox.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3564916

>>3564897
Famicom Wars came out before Fire Emblem. But I bet there must be some earlier SRPG, probably on japanese game computers.
Not sure if the Koei strategy games count because afaik those are considered "grand strategy".

>> No.3564968

>>3564916
Well the writing on Famicom Wars' cover is " war simulation game" as far as I can read.

And yes there are many older SRPG, but I'm looking specifically for the first usage of the term SRPG, not the genre itself. Kind of like how DRPGs dates back to Wizardry but the term itself is coined in 2009.

>> No.3564974

>>3564474
Vandal Hearts. Because pixels and ugglio grills.

>> No.3564978

I was going to make my own thread about this but I saw this on the catalog

I recently started playing Feda Emblem of Justice on SNES, it's pretty cool

>> No.3564985
File: 77 KB, 1095x765, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3564985

>>3564978
forgot pic

>> No.3564989

>>3564483
Avoid L3 and everything else should be gud. Warsong/L1 is the simplest and easiest if you play defensively, but the AI is a joke. For english translated; there is only Warsong and L2/Der 's fan translations AFAIK.

Like >>3564503 said. Der has multiple endings but is inferior to the Sega version in every other way UNLESS you really really hate chibi soldiers.

>> No.3565006

>>3564482
Jagged Alliance with 1.13 mod from Bear's PIt.

Desperately struggling to hold on when 80+ black shirt elites counterattack after you take Drassen.

Shit was fucking INTENSE. I had to abandon the city, come back at night, stealth kill a few guys and retreat to thin the herd.

>> No.3565013

>>3564492
Amuseum made a good Warsong hack, I recommend it.

>> No.3565084

>>3564978
I played some of the Saturn port but the load times were really bad. SNES version is probably better due to that.

>> No.3565086
File: 171 KB, 512x480, 01194.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3565086

I just ordered Lady Phantom for PC Engine
Gonna give it a go

>> No.3565091
File: 156 KB, 280x406, slide002.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3565091

I posted over here >>3564450 but I started playing Fire Emblem and it's pretty spiffy.
I probably should have tried this series ages ago since I like Langrisser.

>> No.3565116

>>3565091
Rather than replaying FE1, consider playing book 1 of FE3 (snes) or FE11 (ds); they're remakes of the first game.

>> No.3565126

>>3565006
Are you using regular 1.13 or a modded version of it?

>> No.3565140

>>3565084
>but the load times were really bad.
I really don't blame you. Replaying Chrono Trigger on the Playstation was unbearable. Thankfully Youtube had all the anime scenes i wanted years later. I should play the DS version

>> No.3565148

>>3565084
Pretty much any version of OG Tactics Ogre is slow as balls by today's standards.

>> No.3565219

>>3565126
Should be in the regular mod, there's an option in the .ini to turn it off if you can't handle it, but I wouldn't.

If you get attacked during the day you're fucking toast. 1.13 means reinforcements can come from nearby sectors during battle so you can potentially pull in 60+ guys (only 20 can be on map at once though). It's like endless reinforcements, they have good guns, shoot well, and will tear you a new asshole.

Best to find a house with no windows and set up explosive traps and shit at night.

1.13 + daylight = you die. Especially with the weapons added to the game like thermobaric grenades and high power sniper rifles.

>> No.3565256

Anyone know if TO on Saturn is any different from PS1/SNES? Saturn games usually had some kind of quirk, technical limitation or special feature.

>> No.3565562
File: 28 KB, 320x320, 1475029697974.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3565562

>>3564492
>>3564503
>>3564989
Thanks for the insight!

>> No.3565612

>>3565256
I think there was some voice acting here and there, as well as a soundtrack that didn't sound like something produced by an 80s MIDI keyboard.

>> No.3566849
File: 438 KB, 552x640, Hoshigami.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3566849

Did anyone play this? I'm curious about it even though it's allegedly absurdly difficult and has a terrible interface.

>> No.3566879

>>3566849
I haven't played it but the impression I got was that it's despised for being bad, not for being hard.

Actually I'd be really interested in knowing if there are any actual difficult (in terms of tactical depth, not just bad/random game design) TRPGs out there. Everything I've played from this genre has been disappointingly easy.

>> No.3568019

>>3564474
The Hybrid Front

>> No.3569458

>>3564474
Is there a solid list of every T/SRPG out there at the moment? I know of quite a few, but, I'm sure there's a lot more.

>> No.3569890

>>3569458
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/catalog/genre-strategy.htm

Try HCG101?

>> No.3570159

>>3568019
The Hybrid Front looks really interesting, with both a Nectaris and Front Mission vibe.

There isn't much info on it, so, could you tell us more about this game?

>> No.3570169

>>3564474
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbiJUm3HJxc

>> No.3570286

>>3564474
Tactics Ogre LUCT is the best hands down.
Recently I've been playing Yuyuhakusho tactics on the gba.
It's my favorite genre, why did it have to die bros?

>> No.3570351

>>3569458
There might be a list on wikipedia or gamefaqs, but I doubt they would include jap-only games.

As for a list of GOOD trpgs that definitely does not exist. If /vr/ wants to make one I'd be interested in participating.

>> No.3570403

>>3564989
There is a fan translation for L1 PC, L2 and L4, L3 also has the complete script translated just not hacked into the game. That leaves only L5 missing english translation.

>> No.3570436

Is it me or is Ogre Battle 64 not a good video game? F I thought these games were SRPGs like FFT and Vandal Hearts. I'm not even sure how to describe the battles in this game. Seems like you have very little control over it.

>> No.3570439

>>3570436
You're thinking of Tactics Ogre, Ogre Battle is more of an RTS with some micromanagement. The indirect control aspect is a major part of the strategy.

>> No.3570440

>>3570403
L5 has a complete .txt script translation and it's one of the easiest games to play with a script in my opinion since the ps1 versions of L4 and L5 are the same mechanically.

>> No.3570447

>>3570439
Oh, are the plots connected or anything like that?

>> No.3570492

>>3569890
>>3570351
Thanks, I'll make sure to check again.

>>3570447
All the Ogre games are roughly connected with one another but it doesn't have a direct impact on the plot the majority of the time.

>> No.3571210

>>3564483
I'd recommend Der Langrisser as an entry over the standard Langrisser II. It's definitely made easier, but I think the game needed that, and the addition of branching story lines is too good to miss.

Then play Langrisser IV on the psx since it's the only version that's been translated.

The first game is neat but not a game I can actually recommend as enjoyable, the third game was terrible as far as I've heard and isn't translated anyway and the fifth game hasn't been translated, and the team who were somewhat working on it disbanded.

It's a shame there's so little content to explore but the multiple storylines help ease the pain. I can't state how disappointing the new entry to the series was.

Oh as a sidenote, there was a patch for Der Langrisser which increases the scrolling speed. You want that.

>> No.3571216

Huge fan of Shining Force. First played it on a compilation disc for the PC Sega put out in the early 2000s.

So many good memories playing that game with my best friend. Once I got it, he bought it too, and we started a race to beat the game first.

I replayed it again ~10 years later. I had played a few more Tactical RPGs since then. Like FFT, Tactics Ogre, etc. And I have to say, the gameplay in Shining Force does not really hold up compared to other games in the genre. It lacks depth and feels pretty shallow.

But man, that story is so good. The immersion level is awesome, the characters are great and memorable, the atmosphere is maximum comfy, and fuck....man, I love everything about that game.

Anyone played it or any of it's sequels/spinoffs? I bought a copy of Shining Soul II for the GBA when I was in middle school, but I thought the game was pretty crap overall. It was also exceedingly difficult. Didn't come close to the original Shining Force. I know the games are loosely connected in some ways.

>> No.3571220

>>3570447
There's continuity but no overarching storyline

>> No.3571225

>>3566849
>>3566879

Let me save you guys the trouble. It appears at first instance to be really cool. It has a job change system, a means to freely customise your skills, decent weapon and magic selection.

The issue is two-fold. The first is that they're numbers are just wrong. If the enemy is even level or a single level above yours, you will do 3 or 4 damage. Whereas if you're a single level above them you do 70% of their health in one smack. So the whole game you either feel overpowered or massively underpowered.

Which somewhat brings you to the second issue, the grinding. Between missions you can access this giant tower as a means to grind, but due to the above issue you either can tackle content easily and get no exp, or take an hour per battle and get decent exp.

You never really get that smooth curve of feeling stronger and stronger, you just constantly fight to keep your head above the water to retain your damage.

That being said, if anyone ever gave enough of a crap to document the engine then making a patch to fix those issues would take a day or two at most.

>> No.3571284

>>3571216
I had a similar experience. I played Shining Force back in the day and fell in love with the genre. Then ~15 years later, after playing games like Front Mission, Langrisser, Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre, etc. I tried it again and found the gameplay disappointing. I suppose the story is passable in the first game, as I appreciate the light-hearted atmosphere. But then I played Shining Force 2 which I never got around to before and it's one of the worst TRPGs I've ever played. The gameplay is bland shallow and repetitive and the story writing and characters are just as infuriating, the exploration segments add awful random battles and include virtually no dialogue or worldbuilding or even the atmosphere that the first game had. It was an awful experience.

Shining Force CD is like SF1 but without the town segments and Shining Force 3 improves gameplay (a bit more tactical, but still slow and underwhleming overall) and adds Golden Sun levels of slow dialogue.
There's also some super famicom ripoff of shining force with extra furries called FEDA.

>> No.3571897

>>3570403
>L4
Dayum . It was translated 5 years ago?! Why didn't weebs tell me this?

>> No.3571903

>>3571216
>But man, that story is so good. The immersion level is awesome, the characters are great and memorable,

It thought it was pretty childish and less then pokemans tier.

>> No.3571959
File: 238 KB, 640x444, Fedora TRIGGER.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3571959

>>3571897
I fight for LADIES! And imoutos, of cose!

>> No.3571975

>>3571897
You're weren't paying attention

>> No.3572054

Aside from FFT what games should I play if I loved the heck out of Tactics Ogre?

>> No.3572071

>>3572054
Which Tactics Ogre have you tried? People often overlook Knights of Lodis for the GBA but that's a solid game.

Otherwise try the Front Mission series. I also think you'd like Vandal Hearts II, but the first game isn't strong enough to recommend. If you want the full experience try Vandal Hearts 1 it's not bad at all, it'll just feel like a lot of things are missing if you come straight from LUCT.

There are a ton more games on the same engine that'll feel familiar, if you'd like me to list those, they're just nothing special.

>> No.3572081

>>3572071
At the time I read about it, I got the impression Lodis was just a mediocre cash-in so I gave up on playing it, I'll give it a go.
What are those other games similar to LUCT in? The gameplay/soundtrack was great in LUCT but what I want is something with the same feel in regards to plot, characters, world maybe.

>> No.3572112

>>3572081
Well for starters nothing is really going to top LUCT in my opinion. Knights of Lodis still has a much better story than 90% of tactics games I've played, and mechanically I actually think it's superior to LUCT(the original). It features a merit system whereby if a character does something cool, like kill x people barehanded they gain a trait that increases unarmed damage.

Front Mission builds a nice world and atmosphere, I'll not go into details about the story but the writing is decent, which is a damn sight better than its brothers and sisters.

Vandal Hearts is similar in a different way, the writing is a little cheesier than TO or FM, but you get branching storyline paths and if you trick yourself a little bit there's enough going on in the story to put it above its peers.

Both games mechanically are also more interesting than just Attack\Move\Item. I'm not sure what sort of gamer you are but try to go into them without a guide and you'll enjoy it more.

Based on what you appear to enjoy, this'd be my recommendation in order:

Knights of Lodis
Front Mission 3
Vandal Hearts II

>> No.3572186

>>3572112
Awesome, thanks anon. I'll be sure to check those out.

>> No.3572254

>>3571975
>>3571959
Ah WTF. ePSXe 2.0 is too slow for my not usuable with OpenGL toaster. Fast forward/Frameskip doesn't even work at all, and software mode crashes. Version 1.60 seems to be bugged for L4. Tried various versions of ePSXe before I got version 1.70 to run at a decent speed. 2 hours of my life gone.

>>3572081
KoL is horrible. But compared to GBA version of FFT, it's not half bad.

>> No.3572273

>>3572112
Front Mission 3 is one of the weaker entries in the series both mechanically and story-wise. The gameplay doesn't rely very much on cooperative effects, you only get to deploy a few units per mission, it's overall very repetitive, and kazuki seems to think he's a super robot pilot. I thought FM2 was much better in both regards while FM4 and 5 had the best gameplay.

Aside from Front Mission I can't think of any other TRPGs that are serious and "made for adults" like Tactics Ogre.
You could try Der Langrisser on the super famicom, there are branching routes and a serviceable story. Other Langrisser games are better games but the writing tends to be mediocre.

>> No.3572296

>>3572273
I've heard good things about the Black/Matrix series but nobody has made a translation patch as far as I know, same for Wachenröder.

Kartia also puts itself forward as a more mature story, despite how predictable everything is.

>> No.3572402

>>3572273
>serious and "made for adults"
FFT 's plot devices more or less evolved from LUCT though. Both Vandal Heart 1 and 2 are s'pose to be serious bizness about revolutions and bad governence.

>repetitive
I found FM1 more tedious. It was mostly just kill everything. FM3 at least had some variety in Alisa's route, and in the split team missions.

>> No.3572435

>>3571225
This.

It'd be a really fun game if the scaling wasn't absolutely retarded. I put like 60 hours in of mainly grinding before I said fuck this game.

>> No.3573718

>>3571959
>Route C: Before the start of scenario 12, choose, "How do you know about
>that?" (third choice) when Angelina asks if you ever got lost in the woods
>about 10 years ago. This will activate the "lost woods" flashback. Sometime
>during scenarios 13, 14, or 15, have Angelina attack Emily at least once (it
>doesn't count if you attack one of Emily's horsemen or if you attack Emily
>using one of Anglina's mercenaries; IT MUST be Angelina herself versus Emily
>herself). You must also have Shelfaniel and Angelina's love index up to at
>least 110. Before scenario 17, refuse to ally with the demons (second choice).
>If your alignment is under 95 and satisfied the other conditions, the "second
>choice" will automatically be made for you and you'll automatically go to
>route C.

WTF. The requirements for the Ron Paul route is a pain in the anal route. I have to avoid killing everything for XP AND have to get jiggy wiggit with 2 grills.

>> No.3575316
File: 477 KB, 1089x1600, c01ab16004aad91e47c942e68e78127e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3575316

>>3573718
Even though that SOUNDS complicated and convoluted, all the requirements are pretty much stuff that you would do anyways. There's no reason not to have the love index high and there's no reason to skip the lost woods flashback. The game mentions the pendants a few times so it's obvious that they'll be a plot point, but I suppose you might not figure out that you need to have the characters holding the pendants fight eachother.

The only really unintuitive thing is that choosing NOT to ally with the demons is the route that leads to the demon characters joining you.

Anyways, I really enjoyed Langrisser IV even though the story was somewhat weak and the gameplay was horribly broken. Too bad the series is dead.

>> No.3575379
File: 107 KB, 848x900, 1470728980398.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3575379

>>3575316
>no pubes

>> No.3576307

How do I get into srpgs?

>> No.3576317

>>3564474
romance of the three kingdoms 7 or 8.

ogre battle snes or 64. both have their pros and cons

dragon force

I actually liked shingen the ruler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw0DHByugVo
and it's a dirt cheap game. few dollars tops.

>> No.3577320

So guys, I'm kind of curious to hear your ideas on what makes a good map in a SRPG? I know it's very much a mechanics thing, but, what other things do you think attribute to a map being good in comparison to it being average or bad.

I'm really curious to hear what other people think about this, it's just been stuck in my head and I need more people's opinions on the matter.

>> No.3577398

>>3577320
>what makes a good map in a SRPG?
Muscles.

>> No.3577674

>>3577320
Looking like and making sense as an actual battlefield. Having strategic positions you can exploit (like high ground for archers or something).

>> No.3577894
File: 1.47 MB, 1485x1584, 5dadaead139943103bf8097982c88236.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3577894

>>3577320
When it adds to the challenge of the enemy you're facing, making you decide which unit to deploy and where to better make use of the terrain or any vantage points.

Turning situations to your favor via unit positioning is one of the core appeals of the genre, so it's sad to see when map design is the aspect being underutilized.

>> No.3578448

>>3577674
>>3577894
Do any maps really come to mind when you think of this? Like, what's the best example you can think of for something like this?

Can be non retro, but, spoiler it if it is I suppose.

>> No.3578503

>>3578448
>muh maps
What if DOOM fans made maps for SRPGs?

>> No.3578521

>>3578448
Sorry but nothing comes to mind at the moment, I haven't played SRPG's in a while.
I should add though, that the mechanics of the game have to be on the same key. If you have some nice choke points but the game lets you pass through enemy units, might as well not have them. Or if you have a high balcony but archers get no bonus from height, then it's just decoration.
The last SRPG I played was LUCT and because of how classes work in the game I found it extremely amusing to just have 90% archers with the rest being high mobility melee units just in case. The game is full of cliffs, forts, roofs, or even just areas of elevated terrain... I would just rush my whole squad there and rain death on the enemies. Or have that happen to me on the nastiest forts.

>> No.3578647

Shining force, Fire Emblem, Disgea HoD

>> No.3578685

>>3576307
I know it's not retro but seeing as the above poster just mentioned it... Disgaea was what got me into srpg's. Ridiculous setting and gameplay, and amazing comedy.

>> No.3578701

>>3578685
Sadly the gameplay becomes really shallow in the space between completing the game and Baal.

>> No.3578717

>>3578701
How so? Just curious.
Actually what really got me into srpgs was FFTA. Years later I went back to play it again as it was a game I had great memories of... Holy shit did it suck balls compared to how I remembered it. Still enjoyed it out of nostalgia and character designs.

>> No.3578798

>>3577320
In short, a good map is one that makes the player think. You should have to use proper tactics to achieve victory and each good map should encourage a unique tactic from the player. A player should have to assess the terrain features, enemy unit composition, mission objectives, etc. of each map and they should make significant changes to their own unit composition and the tactics they employ.

The player should be rewarded for good play and punished for poor play. The player should achieve a much higher success rate if they stop and plan out a general strategy before beginning the battle. If it's more efficient to simply rush blindly into the fray (because the game's so easy, the game is very repetitive / one tactic always works, etc.) then that's a problem. A TRPG that doesn't involve thinking is not fun.

>> No.3578838

>>3578685
>>3578717
Personally I think FFTA and Disgaea are some of the worst srpgs I've ever played. The maps feel incredibly uninspired and they hardly influence your gameplan at all. Tactics-wise they're both really simple, you just go in and annihilate anything in your way (or in disgaea, stack up the enemies and kill with one strong unit - this is another thing that bothers me, I think it's a lot more fun when you have a proper team of units but the game doesn't encourage that).
I understand that most of the appeal is supposed to come from teambuilding and whatnot (though as mentioned previously disgaea rewards you for a very uneven exp distribution) but I don't think that excuses the shallow tactics.

>> No.3579520

>>3578798
>each good map should encourage a unique tactic from the player
That's all good in theory, but remember how Laws turned out?
Having an advantageous team composition IS part of the strategy. You don't need to force your players to constantly change.

>> No.3579535

>>3579520
To add to this... The player should adapt to each situation, but don't force it. Exploitability is fun. I like to play general, and a general would exploit a cheesy strategy over and over if the enemy kept falling for it (as long as that eventually stops later in the game). All I'm saying is that I don't like when games force team composition too much, especially in character-focused games where your squad really matters to you. Variety is fun though, and giving the player options to adapt playstyle aside from/in addition to varying team comp is always good.

>> No.3579541

>>3578838
FFTA is garbage. Disgaea is amazing though, it's just a very very different game than VH, FFT, LUCT...
>The maps feel incredibly uninspired and they hardly influence your gameplan at all.
This is completely wrong, geopanels completely change the game for that particular map, and you can even change the position of those geopanels and use it against the opponent. Geopanels aren't just an extra in Disgaea's gameplay, they're at the core.
>I think it's a lot more fun when you have a proper team of units but the game doesn't encourage that
I 100% agree with this. I dunno how they should try to balance that out though, they kinda need to do it so you can bring weak characters up to par fast.
But once again, even though I barely used anyone aside from Laharl as a throw mule, I just wouldn't be able to win if I didn't understand and use geopanels to my advantage. Disgaea is a puzzle SRPG.

>> No.3579923

>>3579520
The level design in FFTA has absolutely zero thought put into it. They just threw a few enemies onto a bland map and called it a day; there's no goal or characteristic feature in any map. The laws may cause you to change your tactics but they're very poorly implemented; there's no connection between the law and the map and there's no intuitive explanation for the law. And you can just burn a couple days to get the law to change instead of fighting a battle under heavy restrictions.

Quality > quantity, it's always better to have a level designer come up with maps than it is to rely on random events leading to a suitable challenge.

>> No.3579934

>>3570286
Yeah I can jump into LUCT at any day of the week. I'm thinking of doing a full restart but whenever I get the motivation to I remember the death march.

Still LUCT is a game that's always on my mind, so when I hit my next lull in games to play I'm probably going to throw myself at it hardcore.

>> No.3579952

>>3578448
>spoiler if non-retro
Well, if you insist.

Fire Emblem: Fates Conquest Chapter 10.

To sum it up, it's a timed defense/survival mission and there's a lot going on with it which makes it really fun to figure out.

- It takes place in a port city, so there's a lot of "natural" choke points going on including a huge body of water.
-At the same time, there are also choke points made by destructible objects which the enemy will start smashing themselves upon ASAP which gives it a "your defenses are being slowly eroded away" feeling
- The map is balanced so that you need to put some pressure on the enemy offensively despite being a defense mission because if you turtle too much and let them build up, they're going to turn into a deathball and bowl over your guys.
- There are special turrets lying around the map which has to be manned by an archer or mage which can deal AOE damage. The enemy can also use them against you so it's in your best interest to control these points for as long as you can.
- The map throws you a curveball halfway through by COMPLETELY FREEZING THE SEA - which suddenly turns it from "chokepoint" to "your squishies are now been threatened from all directions" and there's this frantic scramble to suddenly reassess the situation.

>> No.3581136

Are there any notable retro srpgs that have not yet been translated into English?

>> No.3581701
File: 411 KB, 800x1200, 7495dc9c4aa1d15b736c9a5f0a3506a9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3581701

>>3581136
Super Robot Wars Alpha
Langrisser III, V
Growlanser
The Sakura Taisens

>> No.3581837

>>3581701
>Langrisser III, VGrowlanserThe Sakura Taisens

Wasn't there a localised Sakura Taisen or 2 ?

And someone mentioned above that the scripts for L3 and 5 have been translated but no translation patch made.

>> No.3581972

>>3581837
>Wasn't there a localised Sakura Taisen or 2 ?
The 5th one, that's it

Unless you're Russian

>> No.3581981
File: 20 KB, 377x397, Clipboard01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3581981

>>3581972

>be Russian
>have more Sakura in my life

>not be Russian
>but less Sakura

>> No.3581989

>>3566879
Fire Emblem 5 is one of the hardest games I've ever beaten. Starts out deceptively easy but it becomes brutal pretty quickly.

>> No.3582250

>>3581136
Power Dolls 2 & 3

>> No.3582535

>>3564791
man, some of the writing in those ps1 jrpgs is so great

>> No.3582543

>>3575379
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEIMNn6jQgI

>> No.3582917

I suppose to keep discussion earlier, in comparison what are some of the worst maps you've seen in a TRPG? Are there any that come to mind that you think are just outright awful?

>> No.3584542

>>3581989
I don't think Fire Emblem 5 is very hard. The enemies are so weak that your characters will have an easy time at endgame with just their base stats alone, and anyone you level up will be nigh invincible. From what I've seen, people only have difficulty in FE5 if they have some compulsive need to hoard weapons. However, despite being rather easy I suppose it does punish you for ignoring major game mechanics like status staves and critical hits, which puts it above the vast majority of TRPGs.

Also the level design is very good, >>3578448 you should check out FE5. Just take anything you see on the internet about it with a grain of salt since there's a lot of misinformation for some reason.

>> No.3584693

>>3575316
Dayum. That's a hell lot of scenarios with time limits in L4. And wtf is with Emily's stats?! I could only defeat her with the 1st time around with Decline , followed up with Fire and Thunder spamming. She's worse than Leon in L2. At least Leon didn't use magic resistance increasing equipment in early game. And according to the walkthrough for the Saturn version, the PS version have higher class enemies in early game. I'm tempted to levelskip already.

>> No.3586627

>>3584693
It's been a while since I've played Langrisser 4 and I've only played the PS1 version but I remember it being really really easy. Landius starts with something like +10 attack for his mercenaries, combine that with the attack boosting spell and he should be able to kill Emily and her troops with ranged attackers. Also note that you can wait without acting for a turn to save up time, allowing you to attack twice in succession.

>> No.3586803

>>3572435

Same here. I think I only put in 30 or 40 hours before I sold it.

Perma-death for your characters meant always creating new ones at lv. 1, who would then die half the time while trying to level them up to par.

The most fun I had with Hoshigami were the puzzles you could complete for new items. I think I completed them all except the last one.

>> No.3586981

>>3582250
Why specifically 2 and 3?

>> No.3586984

>>3582250
1's in English already and 4 onward are 21st century

>> No.3587189

>>3586627
>Landius starts with something like +10 attack for his mercenaries
I must have a different ISO then. Mine started with only +6 A? Or maybe I have choose all the right answers at starting quiz? As I remembered it, Emily's Dragoons/Heavy Horsemen have defences high enough to block any archers or sky archers. And you don't get snipers yet unless you levelskip or have one character monopolise all the XP.

>acting for a turn to save up time, allowing you to attack twice in succession.
I tried that. It doesn't allow 2 attacks in one turn. But if the spell you you cast have a short casting time, you can have 2 moves in 1 turn. You Liar.

>> No.3587426

>>3587189
Yes his stats depend on the starting quiz, either way he provides high +A. Don't worry about selecting the "right" answers; you probably got some other benefits instead. Yes you have a different ISO if you're playing the saturn version, I played the PS1 version. You can get snipers in your level 3 class, I don't know what scenario you're talking about so I don't know if it's reasonable to have them by then. Regardless, you likely have bow archers or elves and both will suffice. Starting with +6A you get +3 from the attack spell (+5 if level 2) and the +A boosts from your level 1 and level 2 classes should be more than enough for your elves to be able to damage her. Your bow archers will do even better.
>sky archers
I hope you didn't make Landius a hawk lord. They get turns really really slowly and also require much more experience points to level up.

Regarding the "2 attacks in one turn" thing - that was a bit of an oversimplification, I think you can save up the equivalent of one turn. So if your mercenaries' attack movement cost is very low (physical attacker, especially with a sonic band equipped) then you can attack an astronomical amount of times repeatedly as long as you don't waste your turn on movement. For archers the attack movement cost is high so you can probably only attack a couple times. You can manipulate the turn order so you act right after the enemy you are facing, which will generally allow you to attack twice before they can attack you. Note that your turn order is determined by the unit that has the highest penalty form attack/movement (including your commander in the PS1 version) so it's often beneficial to keep your leader stationary while your troops attack and when moving across the map you might want to slow your leader down to move along with their troops.

I feel like replaying Langrisser IV now. Has anyone tried playing with any interesting self-imposed restrictions that make the game more challenging?

>> No.3587434

>>3587426
>bow archers
I mean horse archers. I'm dumb.

Also, what do you guys think the best promotion path for each character is?

>> No.3587571

>>3587426
I promoted Landius as a sorc , and his 4th and 5th class should be saint/avatar if i did the quiz right. He did get snipers eventually, but ony after defeating Emily for the first time. I pioritise XP gain for the spellcasters and lower levelled commanders first.

Don't wanna promote the MC as a knight as I remembered that usually came with low DF and low magic resistance. Low DF means the AI will attack you all the time. Though I guess the Sorc promotion route has low DF too, but the Saint/Avatar classes should improve on that. Low magic resistance makes endgame a pain.

>>3587434
I guess Landius is good with everything. It really depends on which route you take? Ricky seems best as Serpent Knight or Hermit, otherwise his troops' Attack bonus would be really shitty.

Mclane seems to be a good troop commander no matter how you promote him.

Angelina seems to have shitty DF unless you promote her towards Swordmaster, but as long as you surround her with her troops ALL the time or equip a necklace, she should be safe. I would promote her to a Flyer class just 'cause I'm going Route C and have to get her to attack Emily at least once.

Shelfaniel has pretty good troop bonus like Angelina but since his Intelligence and mana seems to be the highest, you might as well use her to spam spells at maximum range.So Archmage/Hermit should be best. But the princess class is very powerful .

I dunno what to do with Rachel. She seems to be only good at heal spamming. Her troops(monks) are terrible at the beginning. According to the route info, she can only be trained up to 5th class in Route B, the evil route. I would go with Saint class, only 'cause I liked Saint class in the previous games and their stats in this game seems to be pretty good too.

>> No.3587647

Not sure how interested you guys are in this, but I found an SRPG for the PC-98 called Last Guardian. This is from the third battle in the game, seems pretty fun so far.

https://my.mixtape.moe/lbaoko.webm

Untranslated of course, since PC-98 and all.

>> No.3587652

>>3572273
The Hybrid Front is serious.

>> No.3587681

>>3587652
All the FMs are serious /biz/ness with real/pol/itik. It's that Kazuki is HOTBLOODED!!! and his sidekick Ryo is full of banter. The loli singapoor haxor is also funny but the rest of the cast always serious

>> No.3587691

>>3587571
Huh, interesting that you chose a magic promotion for Landius even in your first playthrough. It ends up working out surprisingly well for both him and sigma if you use a rune stone somewhere in the process.
I think the last time I played Langrisser IV I did the following:
Knight -> Silver Knight -> Paladin -> [runestone] -> Sorcerer -> Mage -> Swordmaster

I guess I'll list my other choices while I'm at it. I don't remember how well all these worked out but it seemed logical at one time.

Ricky: best as a mage, fighter -> sorcerer -> mage -> archmage -> hermit

Mclaine: fighter -> captain -> serpentknight -> serpentlord -> serpentmaster

Shelfaniel: warlock -> sorcerer -> mage -> archmage -> hermit
is a good choice if you want her to be a magic user, but I also had a lot of success with
warlock -> sorcerer -> unicornknight -> unicornlord
because it gets you teleport a bit sooner, even though the unicornknight and unicornlord classes are otherwise bad (low judgement on a spellcaster is a very bad thing). Feed her exp until she gets teleport then completely stop.

Angelina: Flying classes only. It's useful to have a flier even if they aren't a great class overall. However you can also go unicornlord for teleport. Just don't put both sisters down that path.

Rachel: Since you're going path C it doesn't really matter, but I think it's more useful early on to get offensive magic since she already starts with heal.

Selena: Get paladin early on since it provides heal 2. Then marshal -> queen if you have her.

Lanford: Swordsaint is the best endgame class (if you can even reach it). As for the path the horse classes provide better bonuses but require more exp.

Ristil:
werecat -> succubus -> darkpaladin -> darksaint -> darkprincess
or
werecat -> succubus -> archdemon -> demonlord -> demongod
Both good.

Null:
incubus -> larva -> raise -> vampire -> vampirelord
or
incubus -> larva -> raise -> death -> deathlord
Again, it's hard to decide.

>> No.3588704

>>3577320
I think what makes a good map is an immediately graspable "focal point". The battlefield should be a setpiece where the player's attention can be drawn to particular spots that immediately stand out as important as well.

I also think it's a bad idea to throw too many twists in. If the map can only be played well after a failure then I don't think it's really the best design. If a player has a good grasp of the game mechanics and has careful observation then it should be beatable on the first run through.

>> No.3588712

>>3579952
I agree with this - probably one of the best paced maps in the entire series - the waves come with a very precise timing and in very finely-tuned formations that exert a great deal of pressure but are never completely beyond your party's offensive capabilities.

>> No.3588847

>>3579952
there's this beautiful level, and a couple chapters later there's
>>3582917
the fucking pots
i'm just starting mystery of the emblem. first map is so big! it makes it a race across the map to prevent villages from getting sacked. it's implied that the map covers multiple territories (provinces? fiefdoms?) so that added sense of scale is cool. still... the map is fuckin big and it feels cumbersome. it's just different from the filthy casual fire emblems i've played so far, i should stop being a pissbaby

>> No.3588859
File: 870 KB, 1600x1138, sfc_fire_emblem_4_world_map_of_jugdral.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3588859

>>3588847
That's Seisen no Keifu.

Each map is basically a country. It's certainly a very unique and interesting game but it's also true that the game involves some boring segments of dragging your characters across the gigantic maps and that it isn't very challenging or deep. It's definitely worth a playthrough but I wouldn't say it's less "casual" than Conquest (assuming you played on lunatic), I think Conquest has the second best maps in the series after Thracia 776

>> No.3588882

>>3588859
dunno how i got the name mixed up, thank you for the correction
holy shit the overlapping is so cool, had no idea that was a thing. really makes me more excited to see the campaign progress. i've played awakening, birthright and conquest on normal/classic and found them pretty easy. if genealogy is tougher i welcome it. thracia 776 always gets a ton of praise, gotta check it out too

>> No.3589435

>>3565086
Got my order in (>>3589430)
But I think I may play Fire Emblems first
Will get to Lady Phantom soonish

>> No.3590265

>>3587691
I'm a munchkin gamer so I figured I can level him up faster in mage classes.

I promoted Shelfaniel to a shaman first because summons. The MP Drain spell from her Haunt summon is pretty useful for disabling spellcasters temporarily and free mana. Though it's kind of useless in melee.

Ricky : I made him a mage too. I'm had troubling leveling him up before he finally learnt fireball and thunder. His troop bonus is so shitty. He starts with +0 +0. Wtf. Worst sidekick in any strategy game I remembered playing.


Not really sure what to make of the other commanders yet. So far it doesn't look like I'll have enough XP to level almost everyone to 5th class. Trouble killing all the enemies troops without taking out the commander first.

Listil: Can't decide between DarkPrincess or DemonGod. I'm guessing I should go with Princess since she's suppose to be like a replacement for Rachel later on. But DemonGod's stats seem awesome.

Null: Vampirelord should be as good as in Der , I guess?

>> No.3591997
File: 1.54 MB, 2396x3448, 468045.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3591997

>>3590265
Yeah, shaman is also a good reasonable choice for Shelfaniel as long as you have Ricky as a sorcerer. Ricky's troop bonus isn't very good but his own attack is quite high, so he can get quite a bit of exp through melee attacks despite being a mage class. And it doesn't take much exp to level as a sorcerer.

I think the darkpaladin route may be preferable for Listil because you won't have any other healers (both selena and rachel are unavailable in path C).

I just started a new playthrough of Langrisser IV, this time I'm going to pick the "bad" promotion paths and avoid bonus stuff. In case you weren't aware there are a few secret scenarios you can access and here are a lot of hidden events you can find by waiting on specific tiles. These hidden events can provide you with all sorts of overpowered items and stat boosts. Look carefully at each map and you'll probably discover a few oddities worth checking out.

I'm not sure what a "munchkin gamer" is but I guess you like to look stuff up in advance rather than go in blind? If you decide to play Langrisser V afterwards, maybe you'd like to see my recommended promotion paths:

sigma: ->gladiator->mage->archmage->hermit->RUNESTONE->gladiator->battlemaster->swordmaster->hero

lambda: ->shaman->mage->archmage->hermit

clarette: ->pegasus lord->paladin->saint->princess

alfred: ->captain->serpent knight->marshall
(alternatively) ->captain->brave knight->knight master

brenda: ->sorcerer->summoner->archmage->hermit

lanford: ->silver knight->general->knight master->royal guard

As for the character creation quiz I focused on boosting Sigma's attack and defense while also getting the heal1 spell. His troop bonus wasn't so great to start off but after levelling up he could easily teleport around and destroy anyone with ranged attacks.

Also, be sure to choose "hard mode" for Langrisser V.

>> No.3592706

>>3591997
>(both selena and rachel are unavailable in path C).
Thanks for the tip. I was thinking of making selena a healer or horseman class.

>In case you weren't aware there are a few secret scenarios you can access and here are a lot of hidden events you can find by waiting on specific tiles. These hidden events can provide you with all sorts of overpowered items and stat boosts. Look carefully at each map and you'll probably discover a few oddities worth checking out.

Yeah,I know. But I thought I should at least beat the game the "normal" way first, then levelskip to the beginning and abuse runestones and stuff. The hidden scenarios sound like they would be too hard to go for while I'm trying to get to Route C. I already missed the "ticket" for going to the Aniki scenario. Not too interested in the bathhouse scenario.

>> No.3592718

>>3590265
Shelfaniel should be mage for Teleport + high attack High elf archer shenanigans. I killed Gizlof on the first turn of last scenario.

>> No.3592767

>>3591997
>I just started a new playthrough of Langrisser IV, this time I'm going to pick the "bad" promotion paths and avoid bonus stuff.

If you don't mind using runestones for this playthrough, you could get ninja class, equip a bow, then runestone to serpent classes to get better movement. It would probably still suck compared to using a class with high attack bonus and high elves though.

>> No.3593239

>>3592706
Yeah it's probably better to avoid that stuff on a first playthrough. Honestly I'd suggest playing the game completely blind the first time rather than analyzing pros and cons of classes and reading ahead to see what characters join you. But I guess it's a bit late for that.
The secret scenarios (except for the one you can't access without levelskipping) are actually pretty easy to reach and to beat and they make the game even easier by providing you with exp, money, and items.

>>3592718
She gets teleport in either level 5 class and also her level 4 unicorn lord class. All of these are incredibly powerful due to teleport being broken as fuck.

>>3592767
Bows are amazing on troops but they aren't very useful on commanders in my opinion (though I suppose runestones make everything good). And I'm not sure why you'd go for a serpent class.

I'm going to play through the game without an level 5 classes, any runestones, any secret scenarios, or any secret tile events, since together these make the game a joke (and I'm not sure if it's much of a challenge to begin with).

>> No.3594293

>>3593239
>Bows are amazing on troops but they aren't very useful on commanders in my opinion (though I suppose runestones make everything good). And I'm not sure why you'd go for a serpent class.

Well, in L2 or Der, I could make Sherry equip a bow as a ranger then runestone and get to dragonmaster, making her an uber fastmoving high AT archer.

Can't do something like that in IV since the 2 potential ninjas in this game can't go to a horseman or flying class. So might as well go for serpent classes so he would have better movement in water and troops to protect him.

>> No.3594479

What version of Let us cling together should I play?

Snes? Gba? PSP?

I'm not new to the genre and I can handle older games just fine so don't worry about recommending the most accessible one. Which version would you say is the best? Or should I play them all lol

>> No.3594515

>>3594479
>GBA
That's Knight of Lodis which a completely different and shittier game.
>PSP
It's like the grindfest version of the SNES and PS1 version.

Just play the SNES version with a engrish patch. PS1 was officially translated but had pointless loading times, and doesnt seem to improve the muzak.

>> No.3594534

>>3594479
they're all flawed tbqh
most of the jobs in the snes version are basic and boring and there's no way to avoid/escape random battles
the psp version is laughably easy, has a retarded class system and a tedious crafting system

ogre battle 64 is the best ogre game

>> No.3594616

>>3594515
>It's like the grindfest version of the snes and ps1 version
With better instrumentation, more content, an enhanced translation, and includes the only ending to the entire ogre battle saga that we're ever going to get.

Anybody who is even remotely invested with the series needs to play through the grindy piece of shit PotD so that they can get their closure.

>> No.3594628

>>3594534
Tactics Ogre and Ogre Battle might as well be two completely franchises, that's how little you can compare the two games as they involve two different types of gameplay which appeal to two different types of players.

>> No.3594653

>>3594293
Actually Angelina can get bows as a ranger.

>> No.3594758

>>3594616
>an enhanced translation
The new translation is literally, quite literally made up most of the times, it is not enhanced in any way, it even changes names.

>> No.3594793

>>3594758
>made up
Because 1 for 1 translations from Japanese to english is not feasible
>changes names
To make it more likely that somebody phonetically pronounced them correctly. I'll admit that anybody should be able to pronounce Weiss but Kachua is a bit... much. Valid complaint though.


Anyways
>enhanced
Yes enhanced. You open the menu, you go to songs, and you get to read shit that may not matter to you but matters to people who appreciate that a game was made, such as the composers thoughts when he did things such as added an intro to songs.

There is also more of it. It also sounds better when you mentally read it. The translation is quality and does not detract from either meaning nor intent.

>> No.3594816

ITT: ogrefags

>> No.3594832

>>3594793
>Because 1 for 1 translations from Japanese to english is not feasible
No you dumb fucking moron, they add text that wasn't even in the source material to begin with, they change characters' register freely making them sound completely out of character too compared to the original script, they add fancy metaphors and flowery speech that wasn't in the original text to make it sounds more high brow to teenagers and people who don't know any better.
It is a terrible translation that caters only to people like you who want a fanfiction that never existed in the source material.
>To make it more likely that somebody phonetically pronounced them correctly
Wrong again, don't talk about shit you don't even know.

アロセール=/=Arycelle
デボルド=/=Dievold
ニバス=/=Nybeth
セリエ=/=Cerya

There's no correlation between sounds whatsoever, they straight up changed the names, and there's even more examples than these.
> You open the menu, you go to songs, and you get to read shit that may not matter to you but matters to people who appreciate that a game was made
This has absolutely nothing to do with the "quality" of the translation.
>The translation is quality and does not detract from either meaning nor intent.
It does, a lot.
Not like you would know though.

>> No.3594845

>>3594832
Look at this Aloser!

>> No.3594889

>>3594832


There's no correlation between sounds whatsoever
セリエ - Serie - Cerya
Arycelle Aroserru(?)
Nybeth and Nibaru aren't close, you're right.

>>who want a fanfiction that never existed
Or people who like a script to flow better you prudent autistic asshat. Which is what I said.

>they add text that wasn't even in the source material to begin with
So does Muramasa Rebirth and those script changes were endorsed and even liked by the original authors. Much like LUCT. Funny how that works.

>It does, a lot.
Provide examples where the meaning is just all sorts of fucked up because of a translation change. Provide one. I'll wait for as long as it takes you to find even one example where a translation change completely fucks up a scene objectively.

>> No.3594895

>>3594832
I should also mention that the name changes you're so pissy about are also the names published IN JAPAN inside both OFFICIAL MATERIAL and the ARTBOOK. Lot of interesting stuff about design and characterization is commented on by Masao inside said artbook.

>> No.3594914

>>3594889
>Much like LUCT
[citation needed]
>Provide examples where the meaning is just all sorts of fucked up because of a translation change.
I already did countless times, go check the archives, I'm tired of bringing this shit up every time, especially for someone who can't even read Katakana let alone use at least fucking google translate to save his life.
I just wish you morons would not mislead people, but sadly the blind keeps leading the blind here.
>>3594895
>are also the names published IN JAPAN inside both OFFICIAL MATERIAL and the ARTBOOK.
Yeah, and they're wrong.
Same thing happens for most franchises because most Japs don't know how to Hepburn, nor do they care, see all the manuals for SRW that transliterate Hagane to Hagwane.
Are you truly saying that because a japanese pencil pusher made a mistake in an official document that nobody corrected such mistake is legitimized? Have you no common sense?

>> No.3594924

Front Mission series.

Srsly I finished 1 for Snes and DS and I'm in Mission 20 in 2. This series is really amazing.

>> No.3594936

>>3594914
>especially for someone who can't even read Katakana
My katakana is not wrong, and I didn't use google translate
I'm still learning grammar but I have my kanas down. The same can NOT be said about you, clearly
Also the: "I have no way to possibly support my statements so go check archives for something that doesn't exist"
Not how burden of proof works.

>Yeah, and they're wrong.
>bilingual people in Japan that helped publish this are wrong
>I know more than the entire team that included many originals that came together to make this game.
>It's a mistake because I say it is.


Yeah no, guy fuck you.

>> No.3594950

>>3594936
>>3594914
Ah and I forgot something
[citation needed]
http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2011/02/kajiya_productions.php
>With the proper nouns of the world, place names and class names, all of these were vetted with Matsuno. Lots of his place names had Western origins.

>If you’re going straight from the katakana, you can get a real mishmash, so we took some creative license with Matsuno’s oversight. We felt really lucky to have that contact to run names by him.

Those changes that have you so booty blasted about were cleared by Matsuno.

>> No.3594961
File: 2.60 MB, 640x480, remote manuva.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3594961

>>3594936
>My katakana is not wrong
>Aroserru
>Nibaru
Your Katakana pretty much sucks, friendo.
>Not how burden of proof works.
Not my fault if you can't search the archives, though I don't expect much from someone who thinks the PSP translation is good in any way and is so confident about his non-knowledge.
>>bilingual people in Japan that helped publish this are wrong
They are, and as I said it's not the first time this kind of stuff happens, even japs on futaba laugh about this kind of shit all the time.
Or do you think the REMOTE MANUVA in pic related is legit because hurr durr, japs did it so it must be right.
>>It's a mistake because I say it is.
It's a mistake because I know how phonetics and transliteration systems work, and those names are factually and undisputably wrong, no matter how much you try to convince me or others of the contrary.
Some names were transliterated correctly, most weren't, some because japanese simply doesn't have some sounds, so I kind of understand that Modigliani got turned into モディリアーニ and in turn got translated into Modiliani, though at the end of the day it's still wrong, others are just plain wrong.
And that is just the first sign that a translation is going to be shit, then you start the game and see shit like Nybeth reciting silly spell formulae that weren't in the original script or Canopus talking like a refined gentleman when he's the epithome of the down to earth grizzled veteran.

If you like that kind of garbage, all the better for you pal, but don't tell people that the translation is "enhanced" in any way, it's a slightly different mess from the old Fatlus translation, but it's still a mess.

>> No.3594980

>>3594961
>They are, and as I said it's not the first time this kind of stuff happens, even japs on futaba laugh about this kind of shit all the time.

See >>3594950

>Or do you think the REMOTE MANUVA
>An exception discredits a rule

>It's a mistake because I know how phonetics and transliteration systems work, and those names are factually and undisputably wrong, no matter how much you try to convince me or others of the contrary.

(1)
It was done by professionals
It was approved by Matsuno
Therefore it is right.

(2)
You are not a professional. You have no contact with Matsuno. Therefore you are wrong.

I don't have to convince you; you can enjoy being wrong.

>talking like a refined gentlemen
What grade did you drop out in if you think shit like "better a bird than a brute" is refined.

See the problem with this shit is that I particularly find the translation to be of an acceptable quality, while you are some sort of fucked in the head purist, who sees any changes as blasphemy. And I do see your perspective having watched "The People vs. George Lucas". But my statement still stands

>Enhanced
It's easier to phonetically say things
It reads more smoothly
There is more of it to read
Therefore I consider it a treat to the eyes.

Much like Muramasa. No part of the phrase enhanced means 1for1 or faithful. It means enhanced. As in, 'in my opinion this is enhanced'. Sucks for people to disagree with you don't it.

This is such a stupid argument to even be having. This isn't shit like Castlevania 1,3, and IV versus metroidvanias or Lords of Shadow. This is Muramasa vs Muramasa Rebirth. You should feel ashamed of yourself.

>> No.3595014
File: 231 KB, 501x375, 1412662455706.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595014

>>3594980
>>An exception discredits a rule
You want more?
There's tons of that kinds of shit, you just need to ask.
>It was done by professionals
The very same professionals that admittedly say they did whatever the fuck they liked instead of being as true to the text as possible when they were given carte blanche, truly professional behaviour, must be why things like Nintendo Treehouse still exist in the videogame industry while they're frowned upon in most other media.
>It was approved by Matsuno
>Therefore it is right.
Hahaha, no kid, that's not how language works, Matsuno himself has very shaky knowledge of languages, so he's not an authority in any way. If a prominent scholar is evidently wrong people correct said scholar, even though he is a "professional" or whatever, because all people make mistakes.
>You are not a professional.
How do you know that, big guy?
>who sees any changes as blasphemy
I don't, I translate for a living, change is an unfortunate necessity in this kind of job, but there's coherent change and bad change.
>It's easier to phonetically say things
And it's still wrong, besides, it's not what a translator should do, changing names in any kind of work is already failing at translation 101.
>It reads more smoothly
Again, not a translator's job, the burden is 100% on the reader. Otherwise we should translate names all the time in every language to make them easier to read for the receiver, it's illogical and incoherent.
>There is more of it to read
That is fanfiction, and not part of the original text.
I guess you'd be happy if I added a few snippets of totally unrelated flavour text to Macbeth, after all there is more of it to read.
>Therefore I consider it a treat to the eyes.
Said the blind man.

As I said, have fun with your garbage if it makes you feel better, just don't pretend you can justify a wrong translation with your silly criteria.

>> No.3595043

>>3595014
>Matsuno himself has very shaky knowledge of languages
And has access to english to Japanese translators and vice versa.
You don't know he didn't consult them. You don't know anything, yet you pretend you do.

>how do you know that
You spending time arguing about stupid inane shit that doesn't matter. Let me guess it's a "I'm going to make shit up" episode.

>coherent change and bad change
And I guess it's just your opinion that decides which is which amirite

>changing names
Names were approved. I mean clearly it's not as if many franchises and many more games throughout gaming history have been subject to changes occasionally. I mean that doesn't happen right? I mean this instance is an exception right?

>burden is 100% on the reader.

There's such a thing as a bad translation, a bad book, or a bad script. These things lend to bad grammar and not using language easily digestible by the target audience. Your reader has no control over what you feed him. One of the first things they teach you when learning to construct your thesis is to make sure your target audience can understand it.

>that is fanfiction
>song descriptions are fanfiction
Yeah no.
And nice Macbeth comparison. I too love comparing things that aren't even remotely related.

>said the blind man
Quoted the glib ass

>have fun with your garbage
Jokes on you. I will. And I'll still recommend LUCT to people over the original because of all the reasons I've already listed. Meanwhile you'll be damning to the series as a whole. And ultimately accomplishing nothing.

>> No.3595105
File: 107 KB, 227x199, 1448830943787.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3595105

>>3595043
Ohhh, so now you are telling me I don't know shit when you can't even read Katakana?
And on top of that you can't even understand what I'm talking about when I refer to fanfiction or the practice of translating names and the burden of the reader? Can you even read English or you need me to translate my posts for you?

No surprise really, considering the garbage you defend, if defending is even an appropriate description of what you're trying to do.
As I said, you're the prime example of the blind leading the blind here, which is why the industry as a whole is in the sorry state it has always been, but keep eating that shit if you like it

And for the records, I'm not telling people not to play a game because the translation is garbage, people are free to do whatever the hell they want, 99% of translations are garbage any way, I don't even care about narrative in games that much to begin with if I have to be completely honest, but I do care about a decent translation, as a translator myself, you don't want a translation, you want a localization, which is far from a translation and an abominable practice made for ignorant, pretentious fools, like you perfectly illustrate yourself in your posts.

That said, enjoy studying japanese, you still have a long way to go, but it pays off in the end.

>> No.3595121

>>3594479
I recommend the psp version of tactics ogre. The gameplay has some advantages and some disadvantages but I think it's overall better. There's a lot of bland grinding added as bonus content but that's totally optional. I figure most people would get most enjoyment from a single playthrough through the law path on the psp version.
The class levelling thing is awkward but it just means you need to use a weak unit as a item dispenser for a couple maps until they catch up.
The crafting thing is a chore, it adds nothing and is a waste of time.
And the writing is much better in the psp version. There's a lot more dialogue and a lot more events and stuff so overall the game's more developed and the story is more engaging.

I don't know how accurate the translation is but all I can tell you is that the English dialogue flows well.

>>3595105
I understand that you don't like translations, but is it reasonable to infer from your posts that the tactics ogre SNES version translation is extremely accurate and is one of the few that you approve of?

>> No.3595136

>>3595105
>Ohhh, so now you are telling me I don't know shit when you can't even read Katakana?
Have you worked with Matsuno? No? Then yes. You don't know shit about the amount of dialogue Alexander Smith had with him.

>No surprise really, considering the garbage you defend,
Opinions

>you're the prime example of the blind
Says the false fan.

>need me to translate my posts
How clever. Clearly only a spoiler tag can weather the weight of all of that creativity.

>which is why the industry as a whole is in the sorry state it has always been
In this sentence watch as a man applies the horrible meme-filled translations of nintendo to the entire localization scene

>you want a localization
Yes because things like cultural references, grammatical structure, or even being able to outright understand structure and apply it to your own diction is too much to ask for.

It's not as if fantasy isn't created in part by the words used to form the scenario. No fuck this.

>I don't even care about narrative in games
Could you kindly go shit up some other thread. Turns out you don't even care about the most important part. The fucking narrative.

>> No.3595154

>>3595121
>but is it reasonable to infer from your posts that the tactics ogre SNES version translation is extremely accurate and is one of the few that you approve of?

Not really, it's all about picking the poison you can stand the most.
I would personally suggest you to learn japanese, if you ask me specifically which one of the two is better, I'd say neither.

The SNES/PSX translation handles the text slightly better, as in being true to the original one without adding flavour shit or changing the way characters speak, on that point of view, it does a marginally better job than the PSP localization.
Some characters, like Nibeth, or rather, Nybbas, are better translated in the SNES version, I'd say him, the Zenobian knights, and people like Leonar, Barbatos and most Dark Knights are marginally better, if anything because it's not full of stupid flavour text that wasn't in the original script and adds nothing, if not making characters different.
Some locations also have the better translations imo, however, everything else is pretty much garbage.

The PSP localization has the advantage of having extra stuff that the original doesn't have, and it's quite nice to see Yuria again, though most of CODA is pretty much pants on head retarded, I'm not even sure why Matsuno decided to put all those Vagrant Story references and retcon Roderick just to make a reference to Sidney, but I guess it does make sense if you've played VS.
However, as I said, the translated script is as bad as the SNES one, but for the opposite reason, whereas the SNES script comes off as too dry the PSP one is not only too flowery, but frequently adds or changes things from the source text, the names make no sense, there's a few typos and it basically loses a lot, they didn't even get the Ars Goetia reference in the namings that even the SNES version surprisingly got.
If there's one thing that is well done in the PSP version is the Chronicles, can't say I've found anything bad there.

>> No.3596095

>>3594936
Not that guy but you should review the kanas...

>> No.3596098

>>3594961
Fuck man... I may have to replay LUCT as an ascended weeb now... and I don't mind at all actually, thanks anon!
How's the PSP jap version?

>> No.3596102

>>3594980
>An exception discredits a rule
You're sounding dumber by the second and I haven't even finished reading the whole discussion. I could find 10 examples PER ANIME/GAME of shit like REMOTE MANUVA.

Your posts actually looked like they came from someone worth listening to at the start of the conversation... wtf happened?

>> No.3596115

>>3596102
The difference is between English translated from Japanese by native English speakers and English done by non native English speakers. And sure fuckups in translation do happen, but it's not like that's the golden standard. I mean we have thousands of words over the course of 50 hours of play (or 30 minutes of a show), some of it being wrong does not make all of it wrong. And you try forming coherent arguments when you're sleep deprived

The entire thing was spurned on by me having an opinion that somebody just had to state was wrong and explain to me why I'm so retarded and lack the ability to generate an opinion based on exposure. Which given that our level of affection of the series differs wildly. I don't think that's too fair.

And this is going to fuck everything up with my argument somewhat. But my attachment to the series is rather reverent based both on Matsuno and Yoshida, I'm not about to let some random fucker tread on me.

>> No.3596290

>>3596098
Bretty gud, the japanese script is very down to earth and more fluid and realistic than the english one, all the characters are more expressive too due to the nuances of the language that admittedly can't be translated all that well, as you must know. Guildus and Mildain's bantz are funnier too imo, mainly because they're more direct and really japanese in nature, you can kinda see that they are a classic Tsukkomi-Boke duo, the translation doesn't really convey that all too well. Some characters also gain more gravitas due to how japanese works, and you can see the difference between them more, Ronway and Barbatos are pretty evident in this regard, Ronway is a good communicator when it comes to relate to Leonar or Denim, his tone changes quite a bit when he talks in public and in private, but he still retains a certain nobleman character, Barbatos in contrast is more crude and direct, much like most Galgastan characters under him, which makes the contrast between Barbatos loyalists and people like Hector stand out better.
The other thing you'll appreciate more is few parts of the lore, like the Palace of the Dead being called Hell's Gate, which makes much more sense lore wise, and I still don't know why the fuck they changed that.
Other than that it's just having to deal with different names, and if you've played JP Vagrant Story you won't be surprised by some Break Arts names being different either, it's the same deal, Vagrant Story suffered the same fate as PSP TO, you should replay that in Japanese too if you haven't.

Technically speaking though, it's kind of a lesser version because the localized version included all the DLC into one package, whereas the JP version doesn't, so you have to download all of CODA and CODA related content as a DLC, that kinda sucks, I don't know if you can find them on the english internet easily either.

>> No.3596304

>>3570169
looks interesting

>> No.3596321

Also, just to further illustrate how bad the localization industry is a whole, this is from FFXIV, not retro I know, but it's still relevant to the small discussion we're having.
The localized version has MC Hammer memes, which is clever consider the character uses hammers, too bad the original text didn't have the same intent as it's a completely different kind of gag, besides the fact that it's a very liberal alteration of the source material, all of which makes any decent translator recoil in horror, you can only imagine how the rest of the game is treated(fun thing is they recently added Nybeth in the FFXIV PoTD).

So again, you can like that all you want, admittedly, most of the times the new puns they make are rather clever, but please don't try to convince anyone they're good translations, it's the same exact shit WD did back in the 90's and the same shit companies like XSEED and Nintendo Treehouse pull off.
If you care about just playing the games, fine by me, as I said I don't care for narrative much either, but if you're a person who wants the localized text to be an actual translation and not some liberal reinterpretation made to cater to some demographic just to sell, you're out of luck and you shouldn't really support this kind of shit, especially because you pay for it.

And to be perfectly clear, learning a new language isn't easy, especially when you get older, so I don't blame people who don't have the time, money, energy or will to do so, because it's a considerable effort, I just can't stand people who talk about shit they don't know anything about and feel compelled to defend their idols out of fanboy loyalty.

I like a lot of devs, artists or musicians, especially in the videogame industry, but I'm not afraid on calling them out on their shit when they fuck up, and Matsuno fucked up a lot, mostly because he probably doesn't care enough, and I don't blame him considering the environment he works in and his customers.

>> No.3596327
File: 516 KB, 1280x1520, Dank Memes XIV.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3596327

>>3596321
Ah shit, forgot my pic.

>> No.3596563

>>3594653
Oh. Didn't notice it there in her class promotion tree

>> No.3597316

Here's my stance on this localization stuff: I think the primary goal when releasing a jap game in the west should be for the product to be good. So I'm okay with making changes is they actually improve the game, especially fixing bugs but even a minor rewrite to fix plotholes and stuff would be fine with me. But it's only a good thing if the new "localized" script is really truly better than I can't think of any time that's actually happened. Also you have to consider the relationship between different games in a series, or any historical/cultural references you might lose, and any additions the localized script puts in will detract from the quality if they don't perfectly mesh into the game's lore and stuff (e.g. your change is contradicted in a later game). So generally the best way to make a good localization is to capture the original creator's intent as closely as possible.
The other common viewpoint is that the goal of the translation should be to mirror the original as closely as possible, but I think that that's just a means to an end and the consumer experience is what's most important.
I don't like Working Designs' stuff because they weaken the original script with their own poor writing and their changes generally make the story worse (to say nothing about the bugs they love to introduce). In the case of Tactics Ogre, I approve of what they were trying to do (it sounds like they WANTED to be faithful to the spirit of the jap version), but it looks like they made several mistakes in the process. I don't know japanese so I can't say just how significant the mistakes were but I don't think it's fair to put it on the same level as localizers who intentionally bastardize the script with out-of-place pop culture references and inside jokes and stuff like that.
My point is: changes to the script should be criticized for being BAD and not for simply being different, though differences often happen to be bad. That said, most of these complaints seem reasonable.

>> No.3598053

>>3565219
I feel like the worst pleb still not having played JA2

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