Quake vs DN3D

[Anonymous No.3536778]

Which was the better game?

[Anonymous No.3536781]

>>3536778
I like Quake more, Duke has weird hit scans esp. with the cops.

[Anonymous No.3536812]

>>3536778
Quake had the better engine. I like Duke as a game more.

[Anonymous No.3536817]

>>3536778
Duke is better when it comes to single player, Quake gets the cake when it comes to multiplayer.

[Anonymous No.3536829]

Quake has better level design, unless you're easily impressed by gimmicks and set pieces. Also, the ogre is a more fun and dynamic enemy to fight than anything DN3D has to offer.

[Anonymous No.3536852]

douk for SP quake for MP

[Anonymous No.3536862]

>>3536778
Doesn't matter how much analysis and explanation I try to give, I would be lying if I said I didn't have wayyy more hours logged in Duke SP, so clearly I think it's the better game.

Always looking for "hidden gem" Quake map recommendations though.

[Anonymous No.3536873]

>>3536862
sock's maps
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/fallen1c.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/metmon1d.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/zendar1d.html

czg's maps
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/czg03.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/honey.html
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/terra.html

[Anonymous No.3536950]

I AIN'T AFRAID OF NO QUAKE

[Anonymous No.3536964]

>>3536862
tronyns map from the zerstorer jam
veni vidi vici

[Anonymous No.3536975]

They were both good at what they are. DN3D is basically the high water point of the 2.5D shooter era, Quake was something new and different and relatively experimental. That said, I prefer Quake a lot. None of the Build games ever really grabbed me.

>>3536964
tronyn is really good. ericw is good too

[Anonymous No.3536981]

>>3536778
quake

Maps guns enemies design sound effects control were all better

3d too

[Anonymous No.3537081]

>>3536829
>the ogre is a more fun and dynamic enemy to fight than anything DN3D has to offer.

the ogre was a pretty boring enemy though. all it ever did was spam grenades.

[Anonymous No.3537106]

>>3536778
Why do you dweebs constantly have to compare your toys like this? Can't you just like both games for their own strengths? I understand op is lonely and hungry for (you)s but what's wrong with the rest of y'all?

[Anonymous No.3537115]

>>3537106
It's called discussion. They both released the same year, and we're expressing our opinions over the two since they were competing against each other.

[Anonymous No.3537187]

>>3536778
Quake.

[Anonymous No.3537198]

>>3537187
Comfy looking room anon.

[Anonymous No.3537207]

>>3536873
sock and czg are not exactly "hidden gems," I've played plenty of the most popular/recommended stuff. thanks anyway though

>>3536964
not a big fan of the zerstorer theme (a little too grimdark for me) but I'll check this map out

[Anonymous No.3537224]

>>3537081
The grenades it fired would bounce around in ways that are harder to predict than simple projectiles or homing missiles, let alone hitscan. It varies heavily based on not only the geometry of the room but also on the direction from which the grenade is fired from. The ogre runs around quickly to try to get closer to the player and changes position from which it fires grenades which constantly makes the player recalculate how its grenades would bounce when fired. Furthermore, once the ogre gets close to the player, it lunges at him with a chainsaw, and it does so in a variety of animations that have different wind-up and wind-down times which the player can exploit.

[Anonymous No.3537240]

>>3537207
tronyns entry is is pretty colorful for a quake mod, and the zerstorer super shotgun is as fun as always

[Anonymous No.3537258]

>>3537240
That looks too much like the infamous E3M6 and MAP13 maps from the Doom games. Open ground choose-a-building "exploration" where you don't get a good sense of progression and there's shitty trash mobs all over the place that are tedious to deal with.

[Anonymous No.3537275]

>>3537258
That's a lot of silly judgment based on one screenshot, anon. Not even the guy who posted it. Also, lol at anyone saying E3M6 is "infamous" like it's some legendarily bad design or something, never seen anyone bitch about that map.

[Anonymous No.3537282]

>>3537240
That looks great. Downloading now.

[Anonymous No.3537307]

>>3536778

Back when they were both first released I would have said Duke Nukem because I was 11 and the juvenile humor was more to my liking. However, Duke did have some things going for it like creative weapons and more realistic level design that better reflected real world.

However, in retrospect Quake was better. It had mouse look, a better engine, and better MP. It did more to influence the FPS, and Half Life was built of Quake. Build never really went anywhere.

[Anonymous No.3537316]

>>3537275
I'm just throwing my suspicions out there, hopefully to get a better description of how the map plays like from anyone who's actually played it. I hate getting all fired up to play a map only to get disappointed, you see.

[Anonymous No.3537391]

>>3537307
>juvenile humor

groan

>It had mouse look

triple groan

>Build never really went anywhere.

True but that was just because of shifting industry standards.

[Anonymous No.3537540]

>>3537224

You described that in way more complicated way than it ever needed to be described. Basically, the ogre shoots grenades at you.

[NESfag No.3537790]

Summing up Duke3D to "humour" is completely off the point. It is also looking at the game without putting it back into perspective.

The first DN3D barely had humour, besides a few easter eggs and one liners here and there. it's only with Atomic Edition and The Birth episode, in 1997, that the game turned to full parody and which made the franchise take a big turn.

Let's also not forget that Quake came out 6 months after DN3D, which at the time, right when full 3D was settling in, makes a pretty big difference.
But as for multiplayer... all I can say is that the internet coffee shops I knew were all over DN3D, even after Quake's release. There was something about DN3D's multiplayer which made it more accessible, more laid back, and more funny to play with friends.

>>3537307
> It did more to influence the FPS, and Half Life was built of Quake. Build never really went anywhere.

HL was as much influenced by Quake (the engine) as by DN3D: it took DN3D's focus on "realism" a step forward, as well as its focus on spicing up levels with all kind of effects, which DN3D and Build games in general were all about and that did influence the genre in that regard, while on the other hand Quake was a lot more simple, raw.

Even Quake's official add-ons, with their focus on more believable places and use of crazy effects, have that DN3D influence.

Also, Build is getting a new commercial FPS being developed as we speak.

[Anonymous No.3537813]

>>3536812
>>3536817
These. Quake MP is so much fun, the actual SP portion of the game gets kind of boring after a few playthroughs.

[Anonymous No.3537817]

>>3536778
Duke was more fun the first couple of playthroughs, but Quake has more replayability value. Duke's nasty jokes are not as much fun for the Nth time.

[Anonymous No.3537818]

>>3537187
Gib poster

[Anonymous No.3537907]

>>3537790
Word, I get the feeling the kiddies itt saying Duke is only founded on humour and not its actual solid core gameplay are just more idiot memers spewing shit they don't know about on vr. I've said it time and time again but vr's fps community sucks major dicks, and this is coming from someone that gives quake the slightest edge over Duke.

[Anonymous No.3539001]

>>3537818
Not that guy, but I have the ad version.

[Anonymous No.3539245]

>>3537240
I loved this map. I'm not the biggest Quake fan, and it addresses some of my usual complaints:
>couple modded weapons for a little more oomf and a way to gib zombies without explosives
>swarms of smaller popcorn enemies instead of death knights and ogres everywhere
And it's just a damn good looking map. I'm going to try some maps that use the Quoth monsters and Drake mod next, because what I think would make me like Quake more is mixing up the bestiary. I get REALLY tired of double-shotgunning death knights and ogres over and over.

[Abidah Sevenleaf !AnVbXjgZco No.3539283]

They're both good games all-around, and it's hard for me to say one is definitively "better" than the other. But if I had to choose one and only one, I'd probably go with Quake.

I can't really play FPS anymore, because I get motion sickness

[Avery FC: 3969 6700 7841 No.3539312]

>>3536778
Doom

[Anonymous No.3539341]

>>3536778

Doom was better than both, but if I had to choose, probably Duke.

[Anonymous No.3539375]

Blood.

[Anonymous No.3539509]

>>3539283
must be the tranny hormones

[Anonymous No.3539680]

>>3537224
as a guy that just yesterday played through 4 episodes of duke nukem, let me say, except for the big tank and the first boss (who shows up randomly through out the game for something) yeah, pretty simple game.

I was thinking if they had weakness to the enemies or made slimes reanimate corpses instead of eating them... it could have been a simple and interesting mechanic. also have the shrink ray not have a fucking warm up.

because it's almost a weakness in DN with how long enemies get stunned when you attack them, and it's almost the shrinker would be best against the gatling lizards, cept for the shrinkers warm up.

there's something there that could be done.

also the levels do get pretty sloppy in the third chapter, but pick up dramatically in the 4th.

[Anonymous No.3539728]

>>3537540
This lmao. If you want impressive enemies look at Unreal, hyping up Quake's enemies is sad.

[Anonymous No.3539750]

>>3536778
Quake on nightmare mode is one of the best FPS experiences you can have

[Anonymous No.3541318]

>>3537790

Because Quake was beginning of real skilled competitive MP. Duke Nukem 3d MP was laid back because it was more for fun, whereas people took Quake seriously. Quake is what really brought team fortress, capture the flag, etc to the mainstream.

I might agree with the level design. Quake, and Doom before it had maze like unrealistic and unpractical environments. Duke Nukem 3d was an early attempt at creating interactive maps that could be real world. Half Life had more Duke like levels, however, gameplay wise it is more Quake. It sorta took the level design of Duke Nukem and the gameplay and graphics of Quake and was their love child.

Still I stand by my earlier stance. Duke Nukem 3d was an awesome game. And like I said I liked it better at the time, still in retrospect Quake was the better game, and had a bigger impact on the genre. Duke had a big impact too, but it was no Quake.

[Anonymous No.3541325]

>>3536778
Duke is far more fun.

[Anonymous 🤢 No.3541327]

Duke had more verticality than Quake.

[Anonymous No.3541337]

>>3541327
Considering you can't even look straight up or down in duke 3d or have true ror, gr8 b8 m8. I'm not even gonna reply to your shit after this because you're either b8ing or are genuinely retarded. Neither deserve a response 2bh but you got me this one time gg.

[Anonymous No.3541408]

>>3537187
>windows
>steam
cucked as fuck

[Anonymous No.3541450]

>>3537187
nice bill

[Anonymous No.3541456]

>>3537258

I played those levels a lot, I liked the open environments contrasted to the cramped corridors you so often found yourself in.

[Anonymous No.3541468]

>>3541408
So he likes to play games calm down poorfag

[Anonymous No.3541471]

>>3536778
Super Noah's Ark 3D

[Anonymous No.3541474]

>>3537187
Fucker. I always loved that ad in the magazines; I had no idea there was a poster (or is that a custom?). Lucky!

[Anonymous No.3541492]

Duke has the better singleplayer experience, imo.

[Anonymous No.3541654]

>>3541474
I printed it >>3539001 myself with the help of the art equipment at the school district I work at. You can print it at Staples in the same size for $20.

[Anonymous No.3541667]

>>3541337
Dumb quaketard

[Anonymous No.3541675]

>>3541327
lol no it didn't. What are you smoking?

[Anonymous No.3541697]

>>3536778
Quake, no contest
>Client/server internet multiplayer designed in from the start
>GLQuake, was so important that graphics card manufacturers made "minigl" drivers that ran GLQuake and nothing else just so they could support it sooner
>QuakeWorld, lag compensation netcode, made Quake playable on dialup
>True 3D maps allowed for very high skill ceiling with advanced movement tech
>Extremely flexible modding with QuakeC, allowed for Team Fortress, which was hugely influential (origin of headshots!)
>Popularized machinima
>Popularized speedrunning

Quake is up there with Space Invaders and Super Mario Bros. for importance and influence. DN3D is just a meme game. The fact that they were considered serious competitors shows how bad taste people had.

[Anonymous No.3541731]

Duke and quake were both on the TEN network for online play. Those were glorious days.

TEN was a quick and easy server that let you do 8-man multiplayer games online for only $19.99/month. They hosted a fuckload of maps an stuff that would download if you tried to join a server running that map.

It also had red alert multiplayer and dark sun online (An mmorpg based on the AD&D dark sun game).

You could also chat with people in between matches. it was such a comfy service.

[Anonymous No.3541774]

>>3536778

Quake tech is unquestionably better, the rest is opinion.

[Anonymous No.3541834]

>>3536778
Doom.

[NESfag No.3542187]

>>3541337
And yet every DN3D map I can think of make use of several floors.
Build allowed for verticallity, it allowed to have several floors be on top of each others (naturally, which contrary to common belief, doesn't require teleporters).
DN3D explored Y-axis level design before Quake, you can't deny that.
There were some FPS before DN3D which already explored Y-axis level design to some extent, like Dark Forces, but DN3D took it to a whole other level.

>>3541697
Your problem is that you're listing technical shenanigans, if all we cared about is this kind of things, then none of us would be on /vr/ and we'd be playing all the recent games because "more technical shenanigans".
Quake was a barebone, raw, and highly conceptual (almost abstract) game.
DN3D just had more going for it than its technical specs, and it was highly influencial at the very least in all of these aspects : semi-realistic level design, y-axis level design, interactivity, and not taking itself too seriously.

> The fact that they were considered serious competitors

If you were there, you would know two things. First, when Quake came out, the vast majority of people simply couldn't play it because the minimum specs requirement were too high. If anything Quake was the one that you refer as a "meme game" (your word) because it was that game that all the VG press, which only care about technical shenanigans, was telling you how fantastic it is, except half of the players couldn't even check by themselves if it was true because they couldn't run the fucking demo.

Meanwhile, major Build games were still being released in 1998, 2 years after Quake, which tells a lot about how much people liked it.

[NESfag No.3542209]

>>3541731
>may 5

Wait a minute, when exactly was the CTF mod released for Quake?

I'm just wondering because Shadow Warrior was released May 17 1997, and it had CTF.
I always thought it was the first "official" (non mod) CTF in a game, but looking at the dates now make me wonder if both SW's and Quake's CTF were developed at the same time. I highly doubt it but....

[NESfag No.3542210]

>>3541731
>may 5

Wait a minute, when exactly was the CTF mod released for Quake?

I'm just wondering because Shadow Warrior was released May 17 1997, and it had CTF.
I always thought it was the first "official" (non mod) CTF in a game, made after the Quake mod, but looking at the dates now make me wonder if both SW's and Quake's CTF were developed at the same time. I highly doubt it but....

[Anonymous No.3542235]

>>3542187
Yeah but you can fight enemies directly above and below you in quake, and at angles far steeper than you can in Duke. The game has a much better feel of verticality and 3d space than Duke as it was actually true 3d. They designed the levels with this in mind too as you were expected to look straight up to find secrets for example, or look down below you to find platforms you could land on from above in ways you wouldn't be able to see in Duke.

[Anonymous No.3542236]

>>3542235

[Anonymous No.3542238]

>>3542236

[Anonymous No.3542259]

sad to see nesfag desperately defending a shoddy build game against the crushing majesty of quake. zoid made ctf for quake, a fat smelly loser. d3d sucks compared to quake

[Anonymous No.3542263]

>>3542259
Duke 3d and quake are both amazing games for different reasons and they each have their owns strengths. Both of them have tight as fuck, satisfying gameplay. Id say the true pleb is the idiot that cant enjoy both.

[Anonymous No.3542265]

>>3542263
sure, but quake is far far better. d3d looks sad in comparison. but okay!

[NESfag No.3542276]

>>3542235
>fight enemies directly above and below you
>They designed the levels with this in mind too as you were expected to look straight up to find secrets for example, or look down below you to find platforms you could land on from above

This was in Duke too.
Of course I won't deny Quake was true 3D, and that in Duke you can't look 100% straight up or down, but Quake didn't invent the Y axis.
DN3D had the jetpack, levels like Spaceport or Fusion Station which are pure Y axis design, and a lot of levels like Hotel Hell, Flood Zone or LA Rumble with tons of verticality.
Episode 4 is a lot less vertical, but overall gameplay constantly involves several planes. And that, DN3D did it in a way that wasn't really done before in FPS games, at least not to such an extent (like I said, games liked Dark Forces had some), there is a reason why it's called Duke Nukem "3D" even though it's not true 3D.

Yes, it was a race for 3D design at the time, I'm just saying Quake wasn't the first, and as far as FPS are concerned games like Terminator: Future Shock and DN3D contributed just as much as Quake to turn the genre to 3D.

[Anonymous No.3542340]

>>3542187
>the vast majority of people simply couldn't play it
You underestimate how bad a framerate and how low a resolution people would tolerate to play it.

[Anonymous No.3542342]

>>3542276
You don't fight enemies directly above and below you in DN3D. Hell, you couldn't even look directly above and below you in DN3D.

[NESfag No.3542350]

>>3542342
Are you seriously arguing over a few degrees like it makes a big difference gameplay wise?
For looking down, you're hardly ever going to further down than the angle in this pic, because then you're firing at the ground.
For looking up, the instances of use of a steeper angle than in this pic in Quake are very rare, like fighting Scrag. In your 3 videos it happens once.

[Anonymous No.3542352]

Everything Duke 3D did well, Half-Life did better (using the Quake engine).

[Anonymous No.3542361]

>>3542276
>This was in Duke too.
Not really. If you wanted to fight enemies directly above you in Duke you'd have to move backwards etc first to bring them into to your view, rather than look up from where you are, set the crosshair to their position and shoot as you'd do in quake. You could look up in Duke sure but your maximum viewing angle was limited. For enemies directly below, you could use pipe bombs but you wouldn't be able to look straight down or use the steeper angles you can utilise in quake. You'd have to adjust your positional location first in Duke to deal with steeper enemies. You wouldn't have to make this adjustment in quake and the difference is felt throughout the games combat.

I never said quake invented y axis (that would be implying every level of every game before quake was flat); I just said its sense of verticality and 3d space is much better than Duke.

[Anonymous No.3542362]

>>3542350
It does make a pretty huge fundamental difference gameplay wise because at any moment you have far more angles to utilise. It's hardly just a 'rare' instance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhzXKMqZBBc

[Anonymous No.3542371]

>>3542350
>For looking down, you're hardly ever going to further down than the angle in this pic, because then you're firing at the ground.

Naturally there wouldn't be many scenarios in DN3D where you'd benefit from looking down because the game was designed with those limitations in mind. However in Quake, you have scenarios such as firing directly down from a ledge or firing while jumping from a higher level to a lower one. Being able to directly look up and down does make a huge difference, but it's a difference that would not be seen if you look at things only from the perspective of a game that was not designed around it.

>For looking up, the instances of use of a steeper angle than in this pic in Quake are very rare, like fighting Scrag.

Scrags are common enemies in Quake, probably third most common after ogres and death knights so it would not be a rare instance at all. Furthermore, the grenade launcher often necessitates firing it in sharp angles to make your grenades reach certain places.

>In your 3 videos it happens once.

I didn't post those.

[Anonymous No.3542443]

>>3542350
>For looking up, the instances of use of a steeper angle than in this pic in Quake are very rare, like fighting Scrag. In your 3 videos it happens once.
Well I don't remember ever walking into a small room in Duke 3D and having enemies on a floor directly above you that you engage in combat like you get here >>3542236 at 16s. That's probably due to ROR limitation and another aspect clearly showing Quake's superior verticality (not that Duke is even really tailored for that more steep-angled gameplay). Quake's whole game is obviously full of that stuff as you can fight enemies on platforms higher than you that you can walk beneath.

http://webmshare.com/07XBw

I'd argue just being able to look around in any direction as efficiently as you can with mouse in Quake is another aspect of its superior verticality and true 3D feel. In Duke, when I'm fighting enemies higher up my gun and viewing angle is still in the same straight position and the autoaim picks them off. Ultimately the gameplay then still feels 'flat' compared to actually aiming your cross-hair and shooting enemies at all the angles in true 3D space as you do in Quake. Looking around in Duke also creates that warping effect and doesn't feel natural at all.

[Anonymous No.3542593]

>>3542350
>For looking down, you're hardly ever going to further down than the angle in this pic, because then you're firing at the ground.
Even without jumping this happens often enough in Quake when you're on a platform higher than the enemies below you. Quake is full of level design like that. Like the other anon said, this situation doesn't come up much in Duke because Duke wasn't designed around that, since you can't fight enemies from a higher platform that they can walk under due to ROR limitation. The angles would thus be not nearly as steep in Duke and you'd probably use a pipe bomb for enemies below anyway. Webm related level design is literally impossible in Duke, as are all the other combat situations in Quake when you're on a higher platform that enemies below can walk under. Similarly fighting enemies on higher platforms that you can walk under are also impossible in Duke but commonplace in Quake.

This is probably why id utilised so many narrow platforms in Quake as they were thrilled they could finally do ROR in a way that was relevant to combat (rather than just have closed off rooms above and below each other throughout the entire game). It's sad that we never really saw much of this again, apart from in Quake multiplayer, which is another reason why I love Quake SP so much.

[NESfag No.3542607]

>>3542593
>The angles would thus be not nearly as steep in Duke and you'd probably use a pipe bomb for enemies below anyway. Webm related level design is literally impossible in Duke, as are all the other combat situations in Quake when you're on a higher platform that enemies below can walk under. Similarly fighting enemies on higher platforms that you can walk under are also impossible in Duke but commonplace in Quake.

>impossible in Duke

that area in your webm, and maybe other in Quake, are super flat and could be done pretty much the same in Build (without TRoR like Blood or SW) with sprites.

Besides you don't NEED RoR area like that to involve y-axis gameplay.

Anyway you need to play more Duke if you think all the combat takes place on a flat plane. Like I said, yes I'm aware of the difference in looking up/down in Quake, but I don't think it is as big as a deal as you make it out to be.

>Scrags are common enemies in Quake, probably third most common after ogres and death knights so it would not be a rare instance at all.

Yeah but it's not like you're going to be directly below them and use that steep angle often even against them.

As for the rest, it's just what I said, yes it took vertically further, to true3D. I'm just pointing out that, the entire industry was racing for 3D, and that DN3D was already a HUGE step towards bringing 3D design and verticality to the FPS genre, and it's not remembered for it in an unfair way.
You need to remember what FPS level design was before DN3D. We were still in the Wolf3D/Doom maze-like era and the closest to 3D design there was were probably Terminator Future Shock and maybe Dark Forces, which came not too long before DN3D anyway when the race to 3D was starting.

There is no way you can not see the difference in terms of "3D design" and "verticality" between Doom and DN3D. And DN3D was 6 months before Quake, which at that point, meant a lot.

[Anonymous No.3542998]

>>3542607
>that area in your webm, and maybe other in Quake, are super flat and could be done pretty much the same in Build (without TRoR like Blood or SW) with sprites.
In that section I was mainly pointing out that looking down and shooting enemies with steep vertical angles is commonplace in Quake while it isn't in Duke.

>Anyway you need to play more Duke if you think all the combat takes place on a flat plane
You're missing the point.

I know that Duke has higher and lower areas, no shit, but the point is I hardly ever need to actually look at an enemy above or below and line up my crosshair like I do in Quake. For example you get Troopers in Duke flying up and down, but to fight them I don't actually angle up and aim at them in the air. Instead you get some distance so that they appear in your FOV and the autoaim picks them off. It makes the actually verticality in the combat kinda redundant compared to Quake. Also this webm is from a source port which improves both the mouselook and reduces the warping effect you get in the original game from looking around. In DOS D3D, looking around (Y Axis) has that warping effect which feels kinda cheap and tacked on, rather than something you're actually supposed to aim with. It's not as natural mouselooking in D3D as it is in Quake. All these factors mean you generally play D3D with a more fixed perspective with your gun straight-ish in front of you, even with enemies flying up and down, whereas in Quake it feels natural to be looking around and aiming in all directions. Quake feels full 3D because it is full 3D. Duke 3D doesn't and can't because it is indeed a 2.5D game. That difference will always feel apparent compared to Quake, certainly without source ports. That's what I mean by the gameplay feeling 'flat', for lack of a better word, in comparison to Quake. Even in a level like Fusion Station with jetpack gameplay fighting enemies in the air I don't get a true 3D feel because it's not actually there.

[Anonymous No.3543003]

>>3542998 (continued)

http://webmshare.com/OGrwa
(That's on DIG btw, which is why I ignore an enemy here and there since they just respawn.)

Note that I'm not saying this means Quake's gameplay is inherently superior to Duke's. They're both great for different reasons, as I've repeatedly said. When you wanna talk specifically about verticality though, I think it's asinine to say Duke matches Quake in this regard.

>Besides you don't NEED RoR area like that to involve y-axis gameplay.
No you don't, but as explained above Y-Axis gameplay in Duke is kinda redundant compared to Quake. And even just as a level design choice, Quake is full of fighting enemies on platforms higher that you're expected to angle up and shoot. Duke really doesn't do this too much. I really don't remember a single room in Duke that has enemies standing on a section directly above me that I look up from the ground and shoot like in this webm >>3542236 at 16s, and that's only one example. Quake is full of this kind of vertical gameplay but I don't experience it much in Duke.

>Yeah but it's not like you're going to be directly below them and use that steep angle often even against them.
I'm not the guy talking about scrags, but it's silly to say you don't use steep angles regularly in Quake. The game has literally been built with full mouselook in mind and you use what you have.

>As for the rest, it's just what I said, yes it took vertically further, to true3D.
So then we agree. What are we arguing about?

>I'm just pointing out that, the entire industry was racing for 3D, and that DN3D was already a HUGE step towards bringing 3D design and verticality to the FPS genre, and it's not remembered for it in an unfair way.
Dude I'm not saying Duke 3D didn't do anything for verticality and I don't know where you're getting that. All I said was that Quake has better verticality than Duke 3D and I don't know how anybody can deny that.

[Anonymous No.3543237]

>>3537790

> Build is getting a new commercial FPS being developed as we speak.

What game?

[Anonymous No.3543247]

For me Quake - it's timeless.
Honestly, hard to compare the two...each has its niche.

[Anonymous No.3543390]

>>3542607
>>3542998
Maybe you guys could reconcile over the fact that when people say "verticality," there is a difference between verticality in mapping/general level layout and verticality in moment-to-moment combat? Duke has much more of the former and Quake has more of the latter. Duke has some really impressive open spaces and multifloor structures with lots of height variation (Fusion Station, Flood Zone, Hotel Hell), Quake tends to be more of a room-to-room affair for performance reasons (at least in vanilla maps--an exception is Ziggurat Vertigo), even if there are lots of enemies up on ledges and such.

>>3543003
>literally been built with full mouselook in mind
Literally not, actually, which is why you have to enable it in the console. id was worried people wouldn't be able to handle it. Quake 1 had vertical autoaim enabled by default, similar to Doom. This doesn't mean you're wrong about enemy placement or anything, but it is a historical fact--they were deliberately restrained in that aspect instead of going full Descent mode.

[Anonymous No.3543401]

>>3543390
+mlook wasnt enabled by default but they did indeed expect you to look around by at least holding a key and using your mouse. If you watch the starting video demos in quake that play when you start the game the player looks around like that. I don't think the default auto aim was as strong as it was in Duke or doom either but I honestly don't remember now.

[Anonymous No.3543403]

>>3541327
Anon come on, are you serious

[Anonymous No.3543409]

>>3542236
Man FPS games peaked really early on

[Anonymous No.3543415]

>>3543401
>I don't think the default auto aim was as strong as it was in Duke or doom either but I honestly don't remember now.
*and I'm sure that if you wanted to shoot the Ogres much higher up from the ground like in this webm >>3543003 and similar situations, you would definitely have to angle up and at least have them in your FOV for the auto aim to detect them.

[Anonymous No.3543441]

>>3543401
Yup
https://youtu.be/N-MLnwaIreY

[Anonymous No.3543484]

>>3536778
Neither. System Shock pisses all over both of those turds from a great height.

[Anonymous No.3543491]

>>3536778
Always bet on duke

[Anonymous No.3543493]

>>3543484
This is practically an action RPG, its great, but its like comparing riding a Ferrari or a plane, different stuff.

[Anonymous No.3543519]

>>3536778
Sorry senpai gotta give this one to the Duke

>All the cops are Pigs, and on the back of their vest it says LARD instead of LAPD
>"That's one DOOMED space marine!"
>all the one-liners
>strippers

Duke was full of character and was funny as hell sometimes

Quake's worst crime against videogaming was introducing faceless grunts as protagonists and environments made entirely of shades of gray/brown, and I will always hate them for that.

Also, let's not forget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll2hcZOnKt0

Duke ALWAYS keeps his word

[Anonymous No.3543596]

>>3543484
I agree, but SS1 is a totally different game than Quake and Douk.

[Anonymous No.3544156]

>>3541774
i hate that faggot

[Anonymous No.3544197]

>>3536778
Marathon 2 > Descent > Build > XnGine > idtech2 > Marathon > Jedi > idtech1

[NESfag No.3544349]

>>3543003
>>3542998
>All I said was that Quake has better verticality than Duke 3D and I don't know how anybody can deny that.

It all depends at which kind of verticality we're talking about.

Like pointed out you make it seem worse than it is. You disable autoaim for Quake, but don't disable for Duke, and want to use that an argument, which is totally unfair.

Anyway like pointed out as well, I was mostly talking about what DN3D brought in terms of level design.

I think this guy summed it up well >>3543390


>>3543415
>you would definitely have to angle up and at least have them in your FOV for the auto aim to detect them.
Duke's autoaim doesn't shoot things off the FOV either, and I can definitely think of many situations in which you'd have to look up or down for combat.

[Anonymous No.3544538]

>>3544349
I don't think Duke could disable auto-aim in original DOS though. And if you could, you'd be gimping yourself pretty bad because the combat was totally designed with auto-aim in mind. As stated, looking around in Duke felt tacked on and unnatural, certainly not right for vertical combat without auto-aim, whereas in Quake mouselook felt elemental. Don't tell me you ever played original DOS Duke with auto-aim disabled, if that's even possible (and it certainly isn't via the in-game menus or setup.exe anyway).

[Anonymous No.3546014]

>>3544538
it's in the command line I think you put -noaim or something. I dont remember

[Anonymous No.3546128]

>>3536778
DN3D, by a mile. Quake had neat technology and a good soundtrack but it was let down by its boring maps and weapons.

[Anonymous No.3547424]

>>3546128
Was the Quake shotgun a .410? So limp. Feeble grenades, rocket launcher like kiddie fireworks. Good nailguns though.

And that three-inch vertical jump. Hnng! indeed.