Is there a worse retro genre than JRPG? >cliché stories & sophomoric writing >repetitive, vapid "game" design >overrated by autistic weebs No wonder the genre died.

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Anonymous Mon Sep 19 15:39:51 2016 No.3508547 [DELETED]

Is there a worse retro genre than JRPG?

>cliché stories & sophomoric writing
>repetitive, vapid "game" design
>overrated by autistic weebs

No wonder the genre died.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 15:41:34 2016 No.3508552 >>3508547 b-b-but muh waifus!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 15:44:26 2016 No.3508558 File: 104 KB, 600x803, fishoore.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3508547 >everything I don't like is shit >agree with me! Cloying and pathetic tier bait thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 15:50:56 2016 No.3508573 >>3508558 >mad because pleb

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 15:52:28 2016 No.3508576 >>3508558 > every opinion I don't agree with is bait

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 15:52:50 2016 No.3508580 >>3508573 Mad because every day on /vr/ is the same tired boring bait reposted from yesterday.

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:04:23 2016 No.3508594

>>3508547
JRPGs really were mostly just watered down, dumbed down Wizardry/Ultima clones. While WRPGs didn't stay in one place, growing deeper and more complex, JRPGs got forever stuck with their super shallow gameplay. In result when the west got Baldur's Gate and Might and Magic VI, japs made Final Fantasy VII and Dragon Quest VII.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:04:47 2016 No.3508595 >>3508547 >not sports games

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:11:47 2016 No.3508605 >>3508580 >bait it's only bait if you're a weeb who eats up any jrpg that the japs dump into your mouth without any question

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:12:44 2016 No.3508606 How come you guys don't enjoy all different kinds of games

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:13:09 2016 No.3508608 >>3508595 >I spent highschool lunchtimes hiding underneath the stairs therefor I can't resonate with sports games because it brings back memories of wedgies

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:14:11 2016 No.3508612 >>3508606 we do, just not this particular Japanese brand of shovelware (jrpgs)

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:14:49 2016 No.3508613 >>3508612 >we

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:15:20 2016 No.3508617 >>3508613 The people in agreement of this thread. You dense moron.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:16:56 2016 No.3508619 >>3508547 >cliché stories & sophomoric writing Not true. >repetitive, vapid "game" design That is a characteristic of RPGs in general, including wRPGs. >overrated by [INSERT ONE OF THE DOZENS OF GENRE FANBOY GROUPS HERE] Irrelevant.

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:21:43 2016 No.3508631

>>3508619
>not true
not true
>this is a characteristic of RPGS in general including wRPGS
Jrpg = spam strongest moves untill you take down bosses large health pool
BG2 = use your abilities and spells tactically to take down enemies and overcome ambushes, certain monsters require certain tactics and there is no one way to overcome a certain obstacle, it's about being creative in situations.
>irrelevant
not true

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:28:55 2016 No.3508650 File: 134 KB, 465x353, The King.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Bait thread instantly gets replies while actual threads go down the catalog Good job /vr/. I wish sage did something nowadays.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:37:29 2016 No.3508664 >>3508650 And you just bumped the thread with your comment. YEAH NICE JOB YA DID THERE BUDDY! DUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 16:57:04 2016 No.3508706

>>3508631
>Jrpg = customize your characters outside of battle to win them trivially once they start or just use items a lot instead
>BG2 = lay dozens of traps before the battle starts, literally right in front of a dragon's face or just spam wands and scrolls to win every encounter
ftfy

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:03:03 2016 No.3508717 File: 598 KB, 1280x640, ludos-vidya.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >JRPGs >good

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:04:13 2016 No.3508720 File: 100 KB, 425x282, 1472786427984.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3508650 >complains about sage >bumps thread with image Precious newfriends, I love them

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:05:38 2016 No.3508723 >>3508706 >customize your characters outside of battle to win them trivially once they start or just use items a lot instead Would be valid, if it was possible to ever lose in a jrpg

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:07:36 2016 No.3508731 File: 10 KB, 375x375, 1472777781570.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3508706 >just use all the items in the game given to you to win every encounter That's kind of why you GET items, to win encounters. Weebs grasping at any straw they can

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:10:36 2016 No.3508737 >>3508731 okay then continue to bicker over which country develops time wasters for your hobby designed for unemployed children better

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:11:29 2016 No.3508739 >>3508737 >unemployed children All this projection, speak for yourself lad

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:15:28 2016 No.3508743 File: 1.03 MB, 1411x1080, Final Fantasy III (Eng)-160919-171537.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I like FF3

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:15:51 2016 No.3508747 >>3508717 Are you on the right board? Perhaps you might feel more at home at >>>/lit/

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 17:55:43 2016 No.3508831

Haven't you faggots ever been on any retro video game forum the best retro games of all time are chrono trigger, earthbound and final fantasy 3 na. They are the best games of all time and the best games on any system ever and better than everything. Don't you guys want to circle jerk them with me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 18:08:47 2016 No.3508853 >>3508831 >final fantasy 3 na no >>3508743

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 18:11:44 2016 No.3508860 >>3508853 >the graphics look like shit >don't have prerolled named characters >Lets you choose your own jobs >no stupid shitty fake orchestra soundtrack what kind of piece of garbage jrpg is that, wheres all the lack of options and railroading?

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 18:43:45 2016 No.3508946

>>3508547
I think my enjoyment of JRPGs come from progressing through the world it takes place in.

Think of it like a 2D platformer. Yes, the gameplay stays the same throughout throughout (jumping on/shooting enemies), but you're going through different worlds and levels, and that sense of progress feels satisfying.

I think where many people are polarized among the topic of JRPGs is that the people who don't like them look for strategy and tactics out of the games that they play, whereas others primarily look to experience an adventure or expedition (which is also present in WRPGs).

It's two groups of people wanting two different things. There's no need to debate why apples are worse than oranges and vice versa.

>inb4 platformers and JRPGs are both for babbies and that's why you're a pleb with shit taste

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 19:24:39 2016 No.3509045 >>3508946 Platformers are fine, for the most part. JRPG's shouldn't even be considered videogames, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 19:53:15 2016 No.3509114 File: 227 KB, 580x580, trash.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3508547 >>3508573 >>3508576 >>3508612 >>3508617 >>3508717 >>3509045

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 20:47:12 2016 No.3509213

>>3508594
The Japs are also now the only ones who still actually make Wizardry clones.

SMT and Etrian Odyssey are still selling well enough to consistently pump out sequels on handhelds, after all.

One could make an argument that RPGs are, in the meantime, being stripped of all the challenge and goodness because of the excessive reliance on simulationism and soap opera plots made bearable by great cinematics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 20:55:03 2016 No.3509228 >>3508650 sage still works, its just hidden.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 21:10:18 2016 No.3509256 >>3508650 >I wish sage did something nowadays. Kinda like how your parents wish you did something with your life?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:16:27 2016 No.3509369 >>3508595 this. Why not just go the fuck outside and play the game in real life? It's a sport, not shooting your friends with plasma weapons. You can easily do it outside.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:20:51 2016 No.3509381 >>3508547 (you)

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:22:04 2016 No.3509383 File: 61 KB, 642x650, cosmic-smash.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3509369 Sometimes sports games can be great if you look past Madden shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:22:48 2016 No.3509384 >>3509369 not retro but i like mario hoops 3on3

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:25:26 2016 No.3509392

>>3509383
I guess more specifically the worst genre is games that are simulation-style sports games. NCAA, Madden, PES, FIFA, etc. The game you just posted isn't trying to simulate anything from real life, so I don't really consider it the stereotypical sports game garbage.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:31:15 2016 No.3509405 >>3509213 Dunno, I think Etrian is damn good. Not /vr/, sure, but it is in my heart.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:34:37 2016 No.3509414 this is the worst thread ever on this board. why are sport games bad, and why are jrpgs bad? not a single opinion itt, just fags spouting hate

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:39:43 2016 No.3509430
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>>3508717
Are you shitting me? Is this pic implying that fedora-tier purple prose that is stuck up its ass is better than concise, clear writing?

I'm embarrassed for this poster. I mean, damn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:54:55 2016 No.3509468 File: 139 KB, 1000x760, working_class_scum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3509430 >defending FFVII's terrible English script >spouting the fedora meme unironically Go get a proper education.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:56:24 2016 No.3509472 File: 28 KB, 499x322, 1362960884713.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3508547 >live forever >in RAM

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:57:18 2016 No.3509475

JRPGs are disgusting and, really, only those with poor motor skills ever bothered with them. I don't know how anyone can like that writing, but the style is popular. Look at the most popular television programmes and films, they have the same style of writing. They are written as if the story is of importance unto itself, when, in actuality, the story, or narrative, is the least important part of any written or spoken art. Stories are merely a vehicle for the actual intention to be broadcast. The difference between literary fiction and philosophy is the narrative. Of course, however, most people today, which includes fans of JRPGs, don't realise this and instead focus on such trivial nonsense as internal lore, internal history, and narrative. It really disgusts me that so many people find this to be the allure of literature, and not something that may actually stimulate them intellectually. I blame the likes of JRR Tolkien, Stephen King, JK Rowling and other such dullards for this trend. They popularised this lazy and unintelligent style of writing and have doomed multiple generations to mediocrity. I just wish that a new writer could hook the prosperity of the public dollar, someone akin to the great James Joyce. Alas, no such writer has, thus far, presented themselves. Sad!

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 22:58:07 2016 No.3509479

>>3508595
>>3509369
Same reason people play fantasy basketball. Then there's sports that are just shit, like golf; I'd rather watch paint dry than play golf, but Mario Golf makes it a fun, chill experience.

Hockey is another example; boring ass sport, but NHL whatever-year makes it fun to watch and participate in with injuries and fights. Some sports are better played in real life though, like basketball and football if there's enough people.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 23:01:31 2016 No.3509483 >>3509472 RAM CACHE, as in, a CACHE of the RAM.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 23:04:09 2016 No.3509489 File: 200 KB, 480x480, dude-what.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3509479 >hockey >boring

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 23:06:15 2016 No.3509493 >>3509479 Doesn't the NHL play hockey on ice? Wouldn't that basically make it bandy?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 23:07:39 2016 No.3509495 >>3509475 >I just wish that a new writer could hook the prosperity of the public dollar, someone akin to the great James Joyce Well I did write a letter about farts to my gf, if that's worth anything.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 19 23:09:32 2016 No.3509501 >>3509495 I see you're a meme lover.

Anonymous Mon Sep 19 23:23:25 2016 No.3509526

My favorite JRPGs are Final Fantasy III (Famicom) and Dragon Quest III. I like them because the story kind of takes a backseat and it gives you room to customize your characters and (moreso in DQ) explore the world. The world is more important than the story, and there is some actual roleplaying involved.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 01:00:44 2016 No.3509673 File: 91 KB, 650x758, 1473887013946.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3509468 >implying I said the FFVII translation was good Yeah yeah, keep using your rebuttals that have no bearing on the argument. yeah. Enjoy your purple prose

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 02:07:29 2016 No.3509763 >>3508747 I'm not going to lie, /lit/ has some of the worst taste I've ever seen. Live /vr/ it is mostly concerned with posturing and as a result has basically no capacity for introspection or discussion

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 02:19:06 2016 No.3509792

>>3508547
If you don't know Japanese you don't get to talk about the quality of writing in JRPGs. The translations are almost universally trash.

As someone who does know Japanese, I still think JRPG writing is mostly shit aside from a few gems that are rarely talked about on the English Internet, and are mostly not /vr/-related anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 04:08:44 2016 No.3509965 >>3508739 >Immediately becoming defensive because of an imaginary accusation Videogames are made for first world adolescents who have excess free time as a result of not yet being of working age.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 04:29:18 2016 No.3509987 Jrpgs are thriving on handhelds from what I hear. They are but a shadow of what they used to be, though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 04:46:00 2016 No.3510003 File: 14 KB, 251x251, qqewewewewewe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3508547 >s there a worse retro genre than JRPG? Yep. All others

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 05:01:49 2016 No.3510023 >>3508594 Did it ever occur to you that not everyone wants to play stuff like wizardry or ultima? It's a good thing there are sensible people out there who value moderate simplification.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 05:09:30 2016 No.3510030 >>3509045 You know you're dumb in the head right?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 05:24:54 2016 No.3510040 >>3510030 He's right, they're just interactive genre fiction.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 05:26:08 2016 No.3510041
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I think it's kind of funny how absolutely shitter shattered westacucks are that JRPGs get discussed more than WRPGs because they're actually fun games

do you ever see someone who enjoys JRPGs make a thread dedicated to hating WRPGs?
Of course not, they don't give a shit. They tried playing WRPGs, got bored by their point and click gameplay, boring worlds, nonexistent storylines and characters and unrewarding fetchquests and then dropped them without giving it a second thought.

But the westacuck's inferiority complex doesn't let him move on and play games he likes, he has to announce his distaste to the world, partly because he can't get over the fact that gooks took a genre made in the west and made it better

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 05:27:56 2016 No.3510046
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Ah it's just wonderful how /vr/ can only love or hate something, the reason i only come here very rarely meanwhile.

jrpg's, like any other kind of game, can be something new and fresh if you are new to the genre. The problem is that (for the most part) if you played one you played them all, e.g. like playing sudoku. The numbers change, but the principle remains throughout each game and most of the time whacky sidegame gimmicks is what defines the main gameplay... so you are actually playing another game anyway.

I don't despise them them like a lot of other anons here, but i just don't see it worth the time if you don't really enjoy it

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 05:40:38 2016 No.3510053

>>3510046
>The problem is that (for the most part) if you played one you played them all, e.g. like playing sudoku.
Not really. Final Fantasy is very different from Secret of Mana, which is very different from Tales of Phantasia, which is very different from SMT, which is very different from SMRPG, which is very different from Fire Emblem, etc., even though all those games are bundled together under the "JRPG" umbrella.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 05:48:51 2016 No.3510058 >>3508547 GREAT THREAD. BRAVO OP.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 05:49:05 2016 No.3510059 >>3510041 My post (here >>3509475) also applies to WRPGs. Well, it applies to the contemporary vulgarity of written art, broadly, but that includes both varieties of role playing games.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 06:20:32 2016 No.3510086

>>3508717

>fucking Torment
>Ludo

HAHAHA, ok, I wasn't gonna reply to this bait thread, but this one got me, I admit.
It's not the fact that I need to get triggered by it because I like FF VII, no. In fact I don't like that game either.
But Torment? Ludo? pfhahahah.
It is a literal visual novel with cringe late 90s spoiled mallgoth pseudo-philosophy writing and the most horrible implementation of dungeon & dragons ever conceived in a video game. Most of the game you will be reading and staring at the ugly, washed out late 90s cgi style graphics, but the little gameplay there is, is shit.

Calling Torment ludo is actually a great bait, I give 10/10.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 09:29:15 2016 No.3510261 File: 51 KB, 400x524, fish_n_chix_STEPH1362110578.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3508605 Nah, I don't play these games at all and I'm still bored to tears with these perpetual bitching threads.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 10:20:54 2016 No.3510326
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>>3510046
>if you played one you played them all

You have ten seconds to tell me how FF4, Romancing SaGa 2, MOON, Dragon Seeds, Gunparade March, Wild Card, Brandish 3 and Shadow Tower have all this supposedly "same principle" behind them.

Oh wait, it's a bait thread populated by actually dumb fucking EOPs who think that all jrpgs are garbage like Dragon Quest or Chrono Trigger or keep parroting the meme that jrpgs are dead now.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 10:31:14 2016 No.3510346

>>3509405
Of course it is good, since it stays close to its source material, Wizardry.

>>3510023
> Did it ever occur to you that not everyone wants to play stuff like wizardry or ultima? It's a good thing there are sensible people out there who value moderate simplification.
JRPGs are not just simpler. Simplicity can be great. Heck, I myself like me some DQI or III occasionally. They're bare bones but still good. And DQIX was actually not so simple compared to many other JRPGs: you had your classes, skills and so on. DQVIII was even better from what I read.

So it's not about simplicity. The problem of most JRPGs is filler, poor balance, and lack of strategy and tactics.

IMO, the best thing about WRPGs is just how much strategy and tactics they have. You have tons of different class/skill combinations, all of which are good in their own ways. The game rewards you for learning its nuances: the better you understand the mechanics, the more powerful you become. They can be replayed several times, easily.

JRPGs, on the other hand, often reduce character development to just leveling up, and substitute tactics with grinding. Let me ask you: how many times you've fought an overpowered boss in a JRPG, and the only real way to kill him was to grind? Or how many times you've played a JRPG with classes, only to realize most of them are useless shit and you could just level your tank hero alone? This is what kills most JRPGs: 1-dimensional gameplay. You want to advance? There's only one solution: grind.

I'm all for games like FF Tactics. Even Pokemon at times has more strategy/tactics than some JRPGs. It could have been a good game, great even—if it wasn't about grinding so much 90% of your time, using Tackle for 100000th time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 10:34:59 2016 No.3510356 >>3510326 >Gunparade March Implying anyone ever cared about your meme game with 0 influence on anything.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 10:38:05 2016 No.3510361 >>3510356 Way to dodge the question.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 10:41:33 2016 No.3510363

>>3510346
There are some good points, but Etrian Odyssey is one of the most grindy RPGs of all time. Especially considering getting extra (usually better) classes near the end of the game and then re-grinding after resting your party.

A lot of older JRPGs don't actually need nearly as much grinding as people do in them. But many players will choose to grind anyways, either to make things easier or just because they feel like it.

A well balanced rpg should level you up just enough though exploring whatever area you're in that the boss at the end will be hard but beatable without any grinding. Phantasy Star IV hits that balance well.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 10:46:02 2016 No.3510369 >>3510326 >Wild Card was this translated?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 11:03:59 2016 No.3510403 File: 16 KB, 491x317, R7-Y2icyAqw[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3509483 >cache ram >cache of the ram

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 11:05:48 2016 No.3510406 >>3510326 >Dragon Quest Why do you do this to yourself?

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 11:16:25 2016 No.3510423

>>3510361
Why should I even bother about that game? It seems barely understandable outside of Japan. The only time I've heard about it was on /vr/, and no one even bothered to explain what was so allegedly good about it, they just implied it was a masterpiece out of nowhere. And I see zero evidence to support their claim. If anything, it's up to you to explain anyone should even care about it.

>>3510363
Well it was made especially for grinding, so it's no wonder.

> A well balanced rpg should level you up just enough though exploring whatever area you're in that the boss at the end will be hard but beatable without any grinding.

And that's another huge issue, why I think JRPGs are incredibly backwards—their unchangeably linear, dull structure: town 1->dungeon1->town 2->dungeon 2 and so on.

JRPG towns are full of flat characters with stories that start and end at the same places. There's little to no interaction with them, like, say, in Baldur's Gate. They are just there for the filler, your actions can't leave any trace on them. There is often little to no point in talking to anyone at all.

Then inevitably come dungeons with bosses. They are there for grinding and little else. There's little to explore in them, they are just thinly veiled attempts to hold you back with random encounters. Often, you can't even take a shorter route.

And of course, then comes the boss: a roadblock with a big sign "you have to be at least level 30 to pass". A necessary condition to unlock the next short bit of the story—possibly, maybe; more likely, you will have to beat another dungeon for such luxury.

This is why I can't take seriously anyone who says they play JRPGs for the "plot". You want plot—you watch movies or read books. You don't dump 100 hours into a game to hear a middle school anime story. It's like playing porn tetris: watching porn or playing tetris separately is much more efficient.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 11:29:54 2016 No.3510445

>>3510346
>lack of strategy and tactics

This is why I grew out of JRPGs.
Not because of all the overused tropes or bad writing, but because of all the 'mash A/B/X in order to win' shit.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not one of those people who believe that for a game to be fun, it must make them break at least a couple controllers. No, absolutely not.
I mean I love FF6 and FF9 which were super easy, but they also had a lot of amazing content that more than made up for the lack of difficulty... Just having those beautiful worlds and amazing music were reasons enough to spend hundreds of hours on these games.

Now the problem is that A LOT of JRPGs don't have those 'little things' to offer and so they end up being just a series of overused tropes and the only reward you get for mashing dem buttons is access to more tropes that you've already seen many times.

>Let me ask you: how many times you've fought an overpowered boss in a JRPG, and the only real way to kill him was to grind

This as well... Seriously the only JRPG that gave me trouble at some points of the game, no matter how much I tried to overlevel was SMT: Nocturne.
Persona 3 was also giving me some problems on my first playthrough because it was my first SMT game and I was experimenting a lot with different characters (plus I was more interested in "Japanese school life sim' part of the game so I was trying to rush through fighting sequences), but it got much easier on following playthroughs.
Some DQ games were pretty hard (especially in early levels) but from my experience there was nothing a bit of grinding couldn't get you through.

Honestly JRPG developers should be looking up to Nocturne more, instead of focusing on making all those generic 'grind for days so your waifu so can 1HKO boss with her level 3 fire spell'

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 11:35:47 2016 No.3510456

>>3510423
>And that's another huge issue, why I think JRPGs are incredibly backwards—their unchangeably linear, dull structure: town 1->dungeon1->town 2->dungeon 2 and so on.

That's just the genre. It's sort of a blend between a western rpg and a visual novel. I can certainly see not liking that kind of game, but a lot of people love them for one reason or another.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 11:51:37 2016 No.3510476

>>3510456
>but a lot of people love them for one reason or another.
A lot of people like soccer. This doesn't mean Americans are objectively wrong for not caring about it.

Otherwise, yes, you've described the genre accurately. But 100 hour visual novel of average quality just doesn't make much sense to me. I'd play a good VN focused on plot, or a good RPG focused on gameplay. Not half assed VN + half assed RPG.

Anyway, call me weird, but I don't think the 2 genres can be really merged without taking away from each other. VNs call for linearity, or at least predetermined endings. RPGs require freedom and options to be truly interesting. Thus we get linear RPGs with predetermined classes, where devs make all arrangements to NOT let you get away from the straight line; and VNs where every character has to fight, and every scene is separated by hours of grinding.

If I wanted to make a great VN, I wouldn't make it an RPG. It leads to too many constraints and compromises.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:00:42 2016 No.3510492

>>3510476
>A lot of people like soccer. This doesn't mean Americans are objectively wrong for not caring about it.

I never meant to imply otherwise. I think it's always a waste to spend time caring too much about what other people like and don't like. It can be an interesting thought experiment, but you'll really always just come back to different people liking different things for more reasons than anyone can reasonably count.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:08:37 2016 No.3510504

>>3510456
I think linearity is not necessarily an issue. Sometimes it even helps in delivery of the story or in enhancing the atmosphere of the game.

Original Mario games, Contra, Golden Axe, early Castlevania games... Hell, don't even get me started on FPSs like Farcry or Half Life 2. What these games have in common is that they're all much more linear than your average JRPG, but what makes them fun is that you can play them in all sorts of different ways that can be fun and effective at the same time.
Gameplay of most JRPGs on the other hand basically consists of spamming one or two actions in order to progress the story, with an occasional gimmick or two thrown in every now and then which you need to work around.

Sure, most of the time you can approach battles in a number of different ways as with any other game... I mean, in the end, you generally have tons of skills at your disposal in JRPGs, but most of the time you'll be gimping yourself by doing that because there is always that one action that just screams "select me to win".

What JRPGs need in order to get out of the slump they got into, is to either give us more creative stories (FF 13 for example tried... but it stopped trying 2 hours into the game), or give us more interesting fights.
I'm not saying that they need to make battles harder, just more interesting.

If my mage has 20 offensive spells, why do I only need to use two or three at most throughout the game?
If my support character has 20 buffs/debuffs, why do I only need to apply them during boss encounters (and in many games I don't need them in those either)
If boss fights are so grand and cool, why don't they have more fun gimmicks that can put me to advantage or disadvantage depending on the way I decided to work around them?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:11:09 2016 No.3510505 >>3510504 Basically what I tried to say here is that it's not the linear story progression that's bothering me, nor the 'FF 13' syndrome, but the lack of any freedom to choose how I want to play the game without having to feel like I'm gimping myself.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:13:21 2016 No.3510507

>>3510504
>what makes them fun is that you can play them in all sorts of different ways that can be fun and effective at the same time.

It's still all opinions. I know a lot of people love Mario, I always found those games (and platformers in general) super boring. Doesn't make either Mario fans or me wrong, just that we like different things in games.

I can fully understand and in many ways agree with people who don't like the kind of game than JRPGs tend to be. I just can't get into it more than those games are kind of dull so I don't really bother with them, same as with platformers. There's too much other stuff to play already.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:14:25 2016 No.3510508 >>3510505 That's all fair. It sounds like JRPGs aren't a good genre for you to spend time on.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:30:43 2016 No.3510529

>>3510504
>>3510507
I think it's not linearity per se, but overall repetitiveness and throwaway settings.

Something I forgot to mention is the big flaw of most JRPGs: once you beat a dungeon/pass some city, there's basically no need to return there. You're done; the city is thrown away on a garbage pile of history with a surprising readiness. Any hint of immersion/connection is destroyed; you were just there for the boss. This harms both the visual novel and the RPG part equally, IMO.

It's not about the sense of "freedom" really, but just the variety, game's ability to catch your interest. I'm fine with the game being a straight line; but JRPGs are like running in circles.

Otherwise, I agree linearity can help enhance story, and here's my reasoning. We live in the heyday of "open world"/"sandbox" games which technically are as far from linear as possible. But a lot of them use it just as an excuse to leave it up to player to entertain himself, as if he was a cat chasing its tail. And in the end you're still stuck completing similar idiotic tasks over and over again in them. They promise total freedom but only deliver running in circles again.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:52:55 2016 No.3510570
File: 846 KB, 1280x720, freefall.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3510529
The few that do change up what happens in towns as the game progresses or have epilogues like Lunar 2 are pretty neat. And sure it would be great if more changed in towns as games went on. When I played these I mostly did it to explore the world and towns and talk to people. Of course having unique dialogue all the way through would have done a lot for immersion and world building.

I do a agree with many of your points on how old RPGs could or should have been better. But I guess instead of being disappointed by what should have been, I just enjoyed seeing what was there. It's just a game after all and I never expected that much from it.

Same as now actually. I rather like those pointless open world games, specifically because they let me entertain myself. I love that I spent over 500 hours dicking around and having fun in Just Cause 2. Exploring, blowing shit up, getting into battles and using it like open world Sega Rally and the whole time the game was fine that I never wanted to do any of the scripted missions. Was it perfect? Far from it! But I never expected perfection, just a good time and it was perfect for that.

On the flip side there's Uncharted which is one of my best friend's favorite series of all time. He loves the shit out of those games, but to me they're almost pure torture in video game form. I'll never understand why he enjoys it, but I'm happy it exists for him. Like RPGs. I'm pretty done with them, but hey if someone out there still has fun playing Dragon Quest I wish them the best.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:56:47 2016 No.3510580 >>3508619 >cliché stories & sophomoric writing >Not true. Oh fucking give me a break.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:57:03 2016 No.3510582

>>3510346
>Let me ask you: how many times you've fought an overpowered boss in a JRPG, and the only real way to kill him was to grind?
The first Dragon Quest.
>Or how many times you've played a JRPG with classes, only to realize most of them are useless shit and you could just level your tank hero alone?
So, your argument is that spending tons of hours grinding one character when simply playing the game as it comes and saving precious hours of your life by not being a dumb fucker makes the game unbalanced?
But yeah, try to level up yout tank hero alone in Dragon Quest and get buttblasted by groups of enemies that have instadeath, and that's literally one of the most shallow RPG ever produced.

Let me ask you another question in return, why should I bother making any build other than a INT build in Fallout since all other builds are abysmal in comparison due to a fucking stupid INT mechanic? Why should I bother learning magic in Gothic when putting all your points in STR makes you oneshot anything? Why do people reroll characters in Baldur's Gate for maximum roll point bonus all the time?
>You want to advance? There's only one solution: grind.
There's a lot of games where not only grinding is impossible, it makes the game harder, try to grind in Valkyrie Profile where there's a finite enemy number in each period, try grinding in Romancing SaGa 2(oh wait, stats are fixed and you gain proficiencies at subglacial speed) so you get destroyed by the BR making enemies stronger than you faster than you can level up your proficiencies, try grinding in FFVIII where stat level ups are hilariously low and enemies level up with you.
>I'm all for games like FF Tactics.
Ah, that's rich, you call other games unbalanced and then you say you're all for Archers and Ninjas: The game? Pathetic.

All of you have only played FF or Dragon Quest and think that all JRPGs are like that when tons of alternatives like SaGa, Metal Max, Zill O'll, SMT, Lunatic Dawn or Growlanser.
What a joke.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:57:57 2016 No.3510585 >>3509479 People play fantasy sports because they are too "cool" to play d&d. Fantasy football = d&d for jocks.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 12:59:35 2016 No.3510586

>>3510507
>>3510508

Damn it, I knew I made that sound confusing.
JRPGs are actually my #2 favorite vidya genre (#1 would be FPSs since I grew up on CS and Quake), but it's sad to look at them die slowly because of developers limiting themselves to overused tropes.

It feel like every other genre out there tries to experiment, but JRPGs (with a few exceptions) just want to stay in the same spot that they were in during the early '00s.

I dunno, it could be that I'm just nostalgic for SNES era JRPGs when anime tropes weren't the only way to go and I'd like Japan to turn back in that direction, but it's not like I never gave newer ones a try. It's just that they became dull so fast... kinda like a flavor of the season shounen anime, even though there's so much space left for experimenting due to how gameplay of JRPGs doesn't really limit the type of story you can tell nor its atmosphere.

Sure, target audience has changed, and these days it might want all those waifus and edge lords going on a quest to defeat long lost evil brother for the millionth time while spamming that flashy 9999 damage move, but as someone who has been into JRPGs for almost 20 years I feel like I have a right to act like a Tidus from time to time. That said, sorry if I was being annoying.

And here I go again, confusing even myself (probably even worse for you guys due to my English)
Really, that's how much I love JRPGs and hate the fact that I can't bring myself to like newer ones. Maybe I've already became an old man in mid twenties.

>>3510529
a lot of them use it just as an excuse to leave it up to player to entertain himself

I'd go into more details on this subject if I didn't have to go to work in a couple minutes, but I'll just say that the only worse thing than reading 'Experience true sandbox gameplay' in the developer's description of the game is throwing randomly generated content into the mix

It just screams 'We are too pretentious and lazy to make something cohesive'

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 13:10:03 2016 No.3510607
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>>3510586
My mid 20's was when I got bored with them too. FFIX and BoFIV kind of did me in. They were both good fun but I was pretty done by the end. I started so many PS2 and GC rpgs and almost never made it past the 5 hour mark. That was pretty much it for the most part.

Etrian Odyssey is interesting, but the grind gets boring Fantasy Life was fun, but that's more just an open world game. I get my RPG jiggies from roguelikes now, which is maybe appropriate since they got me into rpgs in the first place.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 13:24:19 2016 No.3510632

>>3510586
>but it's sad to look at them die slowly because of developers limiting themselves to overused tropes.
Die slowly? Are you living in Bizarro Earth?
Have you even looked at the recent releases in the last decade besides all the FF and DQ garbage Squenix shits out?
Stop playing games for (man)children and learn japanese if you want to play good games, there's tons of neat Sim-Rpgs out there.
>>3510607
>Etrian Odyssey is too grindy
>Plays Powder instead
You what? You complain about dungeon crawlers being grindy and then you play the genre that is literally Grind all day&Hope the RNG doesn't fuck you over? And Powder moreover?

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 13:34:31 2016 No.3510653
File: 1.58 MB, 2816x2112, powDSCF3492.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3510632
lol I don't think you're all that familiar with roguelikes, especially streamlined ones like Powder. A good roguelike is designed to always keep you moving and trying to grind will almost always fuck you over. Powder in particular. It's much easier to win at a low level than a high one.

Also I do like EO, but in the grind late game to incorporate new classes or readjust for misplaced points on skills you hoped would be better gets to be a real chore. There were times I played several whole games of Powder while my party in EO auto-walked around in circles grinding to just get back to the level I was before. At that point I start to wonder why I'm bothering.

You don't have to like Powder or roguelikes though, that's kind of my whole point.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 13:39:31 2016 No.3510658 >>3510585 not really... it's supposed to be called "sports book" but that can be considered not okay in some areas

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 13:43:59 2016 No.3510667

>>3510570
> But I guess instead of being disappointed by what should have been, I just enjoyed seeing what was there. It's just a game after all and I never expected that much from it.
The ol' "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" statement. "Wink-wink, nudge-nudge, how about you stop complaining and enjoy what I enjoy".

>I rather like those pointless open world games, specifically because they let me entertain myself. I love that I spent over 500 hours dicking around and having fun in Just Cause 2.
That's exactly what people usually did in GTA3, Vice City and so on. Then people who played them usually said they "grew out" of gaming.

Honestly, this kind of entertainment makes me puke. You could as well go to a playground IRL and have as much fun. It's just so incredibly vapid, I just can't help but wonder what's there that attracts people to these games. I give up: I don't know. You know, I play them once, twice. OK, I got it, you can jump from a plane, make a trick on a vehicle, I don't know. If I really wanted this—I'd rather play the fuck out of Pilotwings or THPS, they're far more varied and captivating. So I get tired and forget these games immediately. But other people—never! They sit there in complete awe, they are having total kick out of those games.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 13:51:17 2016 No.3510684

>>3510667
>"Wink-wink, nudge-nudge, how about you stop complaining and enjoy what I enjoy".

Real talk, why are there endless lengthy posts where you complain about types of games that some people like, but you don't? I mean what's the purpose? Is it fun for you? Seems kinda miserable.

>Then people who played them usually said they "grew out" of gaming.

In my 40's, haven't outgrown it yet. I like having fun in those games, but if you don't that's totally cool. No one is forcing you to play them.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 13:59:16 2016 No.3510692

>>3510582
> The first Dragon Quest.
How about every Final Fantasy?

> So, your argument is that spending tons of hours grinding one character when simply playing the game as it comes and saving precious hours of your life by not being a dumb fucker makes the game unbalanced?
You're putting words into my mouth. I never said that. I'll just say what I mean: classes in many JRPGs tend to be very unbalanced, and they often don't try to play in conjunction with each other.

> Gothic
> Fallout 2
Don't like neither games really. I'm Might and Magic guy myself. But in any case, both games are FAR more varied than any JRPG, with FAR less roadblocks/cutscenes at every turn.

> Why do people reroll characters in Baldur's Gate for maximum roll point bonus all the time?
Because they're autists.

> There's a lot of games where not only grinding is impossible, it makes the game harder
There's even more games where it's polar opposite. You know, there's even a monicker for them: JRPGs.

> All of you have only played FF or Dragon Quest
Aka the first and last original JRPGs.

I get your point: there are good RPGs made in Japan. But as far as I understand, we're talking about what most people immediately remember when they hear the word "JRPG". Yes, these are mostly clones of DQ/FF with lengthy cutscenes and bright characters. And yes, they're garbage.

> Ah, that's rich, you call other games unbalanced and then you say you're all for Archers and Ninjas: The game? Pathetic.
I'm not saying it's well balanced. But at least it took a step away from being a glorified visual novel, not cloning DQ all over again. By this point I'm sick of JRPGs go towards visual novel/animu, with gameplay being there just to keep the facade.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:02:49 2016 No.3510703

>how about you stop complaining and enjoy what I enjoy

Is not even close to what I was actually saying by the way. Just that I don't expect games to be glorious, perfect works of art. They're games. Mostly flawed, frequently bad but sometimes fun as a pass time. When a game is only slightly fun, to me that's par for the course.

When one actually is fun enough to spend time on then I enjoy it for what it is. I see no use at all in pissing and moaning about what the game could have been or should have been or what ought to have been different. It is what it is. Enjoy it for what fun there is to be had and then move along.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:07:28 2016 No.3510710

WRPG fags think that drawing maps by hand while staring at bad portraits of ugly fatties while spending hours running around in circle in a bland and repetitive first person dungeon is fun and deep compared to the vibrant and exciting JRPG worlds filled with actual characters and some sense of thoughtful design

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:10:59 2016 No.3510717 >>3510692 >Yes, these are mostly clones of DQ/FF with lengthy cutscenes and bright characters. >And yes, they're garbage. >I don't like it so it's garbage. >Take me seriously though, please!

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:14:05 2016 No.3510721

>>3510684
I don't complain, I gave my answer to OP's question. I analyzed the JRPGs I've played and gave my thoughts on the subject, because I agree with OP's points (to an extent).

Complaining is a waste of time, I won't get anything out of it. I'm trying to understand if there are actually worthy Japanese RPGs, or did they all have the same shortcomings; if they lived up to their hype, in other words.

> When one actually is fun enough to spend time on then I enjoy it for what it is. I see no use at all in pissing and moaning about what the game could have been or should have been or what ought to have been different. It is what it is. Enjoy it for what fun there is to be had and then move along.
Good for you. No one asked you about it. I understand you have PhD in living a life, but frankly, no one cares. If my post has annoyed you, it doesn't concern me in the least bit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:16:53 2016 No.3510724 Are we denying the importance of comfort food? Also, when SaGa too becomes formulaic (Scarlet Grace), run for the hills.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:19:40 2016 No.3510726 File: 68 KB, 640x486, argument pyramid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3510717 How about you read my previous messages: >>3510346 >>3510423 . I'd rather hear your refutation of my points than criticizing my tone.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:21:31 2016 No.3510728

>>3510721
Your posts don't annoy me, you just sound miserable and never seem to stop complaining.
>Honestly, this kind of entertainment makes me puke.
>It's just so incredibly vapid
>So I get tired and forget these games immediately.
Maybe you don't call that complaining, but that's what it looks like to me. Doesn't bug me personally, but you always seem upset and annoyed about something or other.

Anyways... Given what I can gather from your posts I don't think you will find any worthwhile old JRPGs. The people who enjoyed those and whom they were made for liked different things out of games than you do. They could only live up to their hype if you like what they're trying to be in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:27:14 2016 No.3510737 >>3510667 >I'd rather play the fuck out of Pilotwings or THPS, they're far more varied and captivating. How is pilotwings far more varied than flying in JC2?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:30:03 2016 No.3510743 >>3510726 >How about you read my previous messages Because I don't care what you think? I don't give a fuck why you don't like them, me and millions of others do.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 14:59:28 2016 No.3510792 >>3510724 Comfort food is objectively shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:18:55 2016 No.3510823 Why make a thread like this at all? I don't really get it. You're not going to sway anyone's opinion that likes it or doesn't like it. You're basically just needlessly announcing your distaste for a genre like a child.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:27:11 2016 No.3510832

>>3510653
>A good roguelike is designed to always keep you moving and trying to grind will almost always fuck you over
A good roguelike has something more than a glorified micromanagement system with the game having the only purpose of clearing a number of floors, Shiren 5 comes to mind.
I found myself not using a ton of the mechanics of Powder, simply because as you said there's no time to, most of them are shallow percentage multipliers for actions instead of something smart like Night/Day cycles, puzzle floors and monster ecosystem, Powder is archaic, poorly designed garbage even for retro standard.
>>3510692
>How about every Final Fantasy?
>Needing to grind in any FF
Utterly pathetic.
>But in any case, both games are FAR more varied than any JRPG, with FAR less roadblocks/cutscenes at every turn.
SaGa alone is immensely more complex than all the games you mentioned put together, not like you'd know though.
Unlimited SaGa makes any western RPG bar Dwarf Fortress a joke in terms of sheer mechanics and innovation alone, and lo and behold, it bombed in the west because it was too "different".
>You know, there's even a monicker for them: JRPGs.
For ignorant EOP morons like you maybe.
You're pathetic man, just stop posting if you seriously think there's nothing more than FF or DQ to Jrpgs.

It's as if I said that every roguelike is shit because generic garbage like Castle of the Winds exists, WRPGs have their fair share of mainstream crap like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, even The Witcher, which started out fairly decent became a brothel simulator with cutscenes and a few shitty fights inbetween.
>By this point I'm sick of JRPGs go towards visual novel/animu, with gameplay being there just to keep the facade.
Maybe because again, you're a pleb who only plays that kind of shit while not even knowing that there's more than that, but that's just your problem, you being a clueless third rate shitter doesn't make an entire genre not good or dying.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:30:13 2016 No.3510843
File: 51 KB, 546x455, fishing hot girl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3510823
That's all a bait thread is.

>say something stupid and inflammatory
>wait for someone to call you out on it
>act indignant that you are serious
>watch them get mad and or confused
>repeat

There is no why. Just bait.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:30:32 2016 No.3510845 >>3510086 What games would you consider to be ludus, then?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:37:00 2016 No.3510859 >>3510832 >A good roguelike has... Your opinions are funny.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:43:48 2016 No.3510869

>>3510859
Enjoy playing the same old stale formulas then, you might just stick to Rogue at this point if you don't want something more that that, but you're missing out on great stuff that adds much more depth and fun to the genre instead of just adding multipliers on multipliers for the sake of "complexity".

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:46:24 2016 No.3510882
File: 1.40 MB, 1650x1268, prophet34.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3510086
The image triggered you a bit too much anon, Torment is never 2deep, the philosophy is part of the setting and realyl well presented, also I would not call the background art as washed out, its pretty unique and bizarre. For being a visual novel? I can give you that, but nevertheless equipping the TNO with those various strange items was good, the combat just needed more depth and it woult be 10\10.

Certainly a better game than FF7.

Speaking of which the only jrpgs I ever enjoyed were Breath of Fire, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Chrono Trigger. Some tactics games are also okay like Ogre battle.
Most jrpgs formula do get very boring after a while, these I mentioned had something going for them either the setting, combat system.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:49:40 2016 No.3510886

>>3510869
I don't play just one kind of game though. Why would I want to only stick to one? Variety is great. I said your opinions are funny because you seem to set your mind on a specific idea of what something should be and then shit on anything that isn't that.

Powder is streamlined, it's not trying to be ToME 4, IVAN or Dwarf Fortress. Not that those games aren't great at what they do, they're just different. It's the instance that something that's not trying to be what those games are makes it garbage is comical to me for some reason.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 15:56:16 2016 No.3510897 >>3510582 >SMT spam buffs 2 win lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 16:38:13 2016 No.3510983 File: 150 KB, 468x569, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Stop liking what I don't like: The thread >100 replies /vr/, I am disappoint.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 16:54:15 2016 No.3511007 >>3510983 >not agreeing with the /vr/ hivemind Get back to ®eddit, kiddo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:01:06 2016 No.3511012 >>3508558 >>everything I don't like is shit >>agree with me! That's pretty much the reasoning of weebs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:01:30 2016 No.3511013 >>3510845 Games that focus on gameplay, it's the whole point of the word "ludo". Pac-man, Tetris, Space Invaders are clear examples of pure ludo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:02:00 2016 No.3511015 >>3508547 >Is there a worse retro genre than JRPG? Bad opinion. >No wonder the genre died. They didn't.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:03:36 2016 No.3511016 >>3511015 >They didn't. Post ten traditional JRPG's (can't be fused with other genres, like action or tactics) made within the past five years.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:09:36 2016 No.3511028 File: 77 KB, 635x609, shitpost.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3508547 This is either shit-tier bait or you're legitimately retarded. Either way, nice job shitting up the board, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:23:30 2016 No.3511061 >>3511028 Any time, my friend.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:26:31 2016 No.3511078 Who's in favour of banning any game that incorporates RPG elements? They are literally the worst thing to ever happen to videogames.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:28:34 2016 No.3511083 >>3511078 The first video games were Dungeons and Dragons clones dumbass.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:30:32 2016 No.3511087 >>3511013 No, a great game needs to have exceptional music, emotionally complex and moving narrative, fulfilling and clever game design, and of course strong game feel. Once a game has achieved all these artistic merits, then it can be called Ludo.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:47:23 2016 No.3511129

>>3511016
Bravely Default, Bravely Second, Setsuna, Etrian Odyssey 4 and 5, Shin Megami Tensei 4 and Final, The Legend of Legacy, Etrian and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon

Some of these I haven't played so I'm not sure. Then again there are many others I could name but you'd probably whine that they aren't "traditional" enough.

I guess if you mean DQ style then the Mystery Dungeon games don't count, but I'm too lazy to look for others. I guess Pokemon games count, and there've been more than two in the last 5 years, so there you go.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:52:03 2016 No.3511140 File: 80 KB, 500x650, airy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3511129 All of those are shit except for the first Bravely game. Thanks for proving my point, familia.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:52:46 2016 No.3511143

>>3511016
WTF is a "traditional" JRPG? JRPGs have been more varied than just boring FF clones since at least the SNES days. Or are you going to deny that Tales, as an example, is one of the quintessential JRPG series? I guess even Final Fantasy isn't a JRPG anymore.

Yeah, I guess if you restrict the definition of the genre to a very narrow set of traits, they're all going to start to look the same.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 17:58:34 2016 No.3511160 >>3511143 Tales is an action-RPG, not a traditional RPG.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:00:46 2016 No.3511165

>>3511016
>Post ten traditional JRPG's
>Can't be fused with other genres, like action or tactics
>Implying there's such a thing as "traditional JRPG"
>Implying some of the very first JRPGs weren't Action-RPGs

So, wait, Xanadu isn't traditional enough for you?
This thread gets better and better.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:02:58 2016 No.3511169 >>3511165 Doesn't matter how old they are, if a game mixes two or more genres, then it can't be straight up RPG. It'd be like calling Battletoads a belt scroller when only about 33% of the game is actually belt scrolling.

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:03:42 2016 No.3511171

>>3511140
Don't know about Setsuna or Legend of Legacy (though that title sure is shit), rest is at least fine.
If you think a niche genre exclusive to one country is dead just because the market isn't flooded with masterpieces, you are either baiting or a child who thinks video games were better before you were born. 10+ titles in 5 years makes at least 2 a year, without counting remakes. And Fire Emblem and action JRPGs have been around since Famicom, so your criteria is even sillier for denying that these aren't "traditional".

There's RPG Maker coming for 3DS with games made with it by various developers too IIRC.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:05:26 2016 No.3511174 >>3511165 And Dragon Slayer

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:06:51 2016 No.3511178 >>3511174 I bet you think Zelda is a JRPG too. Fucking mongoloid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:11:09 2016 No.3511187 >>3511178 >it's not a JRPG if it doesn't fit into a WPRG (D&D) mold full retard

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:11:33 2016 No.3511190
File: 11 KB, 180x231, HORY SHIET.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3511169
>>3511169
>Doesn't matter how old they are
It actually does, traditions are set up by historical precedents, so it matters quite a lot how old they are.
>then it can't be straight up RPG.
So TES, Shadowrun or HoMM aren't RPGs?
Well, that means Doom isn't a FPS since I can use melee then.
>belt scroller
And that's how I know you're just fishing for replies on top of being a dumb fucker.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:12:35 2016 No.3511194 >>3511160 >>3511169 So Umihara Kawase isn't a traditional platformer because it doesn't involve jumping on enemies' heads to kill them? No, that just makes it not a Mario clone.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:16:35 2016 No.3511202 >>3511087 You're wrong, ludo doesn't need narrative. And "clever game design" is directly correlated with the gameplay, has nothing to do with narrative. The word you're actually looking for is biblio, aks /lit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:31:12 2016 No.3511228 >>3511140 >POST TEN RECENT JRPGS >he posts ten >THOSE DON'T COUNT THEY'RE SHIT honestly retards like you need to hurry up and kill themselves.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 18:35:27 2016 No.3511238 >>3511140 >I don't like those so you're wrong

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 19:00:34 2016 No.3511301

>>3509792
How are the quality of fan translations compared to the commercial release translations?

Is the original Japanese usually more high-brow and mature?

What about JRPG translations to European languages as many PAL games are? Are they written for a higher IQ audience than the Burgerstanis?

What about Japanese translations of western role playing games like Ultima and Baldur's Gate?
What kind of tone and style do they have?
Polite or informal?
Laconic or verbose?
Word-for-word translation or liberties taken to retain the feel of the original?

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 19:03:38 2016 No.3511309

From 2016 alone, off the top of my head:

I Am Setsuna
Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness
Odin Sphere Leifthrasir (ok, it's a remake, but still)
Coven and the Labyrinth of Refrain
Ys VIII
Tales of Berseria
Persona 5
Utawarerumono 3
Pokemon Sun/Moon
Final Fantasy XV

Sure is a dead genre.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 19:03:56 2016 No.3511313 >>3510046 Game name?

Anonymous Tue Sep 20 19:08:13 2016 No.3511327
File: 334 KB, 800x980, 7afe065c79466dcddbab4908729a4d23.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Even as a fan of some JRPGs, hell my favorite game of all time is a JRPG, I can admit OP is pretty right. Ultimately they're pretty shallow in terms of combat and character, we get absorbed since their worlds are the most developed compared to other videogames. My personal problem is that there main claim to fame, their writingband characters, are often so cliche or pretentious.

As I say all that I am playing dragon quest VII, absolutely adore it too.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 20 19:08:20 2016 No.3511329 >>3510326 >garbage like Dragon Quest i dislike you

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/vr/ - Retro Games