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/vr/ - Retro Games

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3498995 No.3498995 [Reply] [Original]

Was this game an anti American allegory, and green movement propaganda?

>> No.3499001

>>3498995
No

It, along with many games released at the time, was a poor re-creation of actual GOOD games in a 3D setting. It's supposed to be Final Fantasy 3 in 3D but not the exact same game.

>> No.3499018

>>3498995
Yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsk_SvIdlxQ

>> No.3499027

>>3499018
So did the planet eliminate humans or not? (Advent Children is fan fiction)

>> No.3499036
File: 1002 KB, 250x251, tumblr_m7swmtmv7n1rn95k2o1_250_zps880b4a1e[1].gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3499036

>>3499027

>> No.3499057

Due to the events portrayed you can't really call it pro-war or anti-war, it's a bit of both. You're literally a group of terrorists blowing shit up starting off yet you (presumably) save the world at the end. My guess is it's purely designed to make you think, though with dat translation there's admittedly little room for subtlety at times.

>> No.3499061

>>3499027
Fan fiction written by the same writer

>> No.3499063

>>3499057
I mean Shinra is portrayed in almost an entirely negative light. And they invade other countries to build reactors. Which is analogous to the (simplistic) view that America invades countries for oil (which isn't the case).

>> No.3499067

>>3499018
Where the fuck was the rest of RED-XIII's species living? All we ever see is his dad and him, and his granpa is a fucking floating human

>> No.3499068

>>3499057
Ackshullly you are a group of green-peace fags blowing up machines killing the planet specifically

>> No.3499069

>>3499061
>written by the same writer
the character drama and scenario writer, not the same writer who built the world and lore.

>> No.3499089

>>3499063

There are plenty of 'Who is the real villain here?' moments in the game with the Avalanche guys though, wondering whether their way was the only way, whether it was wrong to kill innocent people for a greater good, that sort of thing. You're right though, Shinra was by far much more evil, guess it was all about shades of grey.

>> No.3499114

Shinra is a corporation with a monopoly on mako energy. Though they kinda overlap the thing with environmentalist beliefs, I think Shinra is pretty antithetical with American principles. I'd still like to know if Shinra is within an actual Nation State or if the Nation is just called Shinra too.

>> No.3499120

>>3499001
>It's supposed to be Final Fantasy 3 in 3D
Where's the job system then?

>> No.3499138

>>3499001
Putting aside the fact that it is just as good as 3/6, this is true. It very, very similar. The story is basically the same and the materia system is very similar to the esper system, the only main difference is that the relic effects are also folded into the materia system.

>> No.3499172

Environmentalism is a key theme of the game, and it asks us to consider what price we are willing to pay for the comfort and security of cheap energy.

However, I don't think it's anti-American. There's nothing specifically American about Shinra or any part of Gaia. There's nothing unique to America about mega corporations.

>> No.3499207

>>3499172
Though all the metaphysics and stuff about the planet being a single living organism is rubbish. Means of energy has advanced so much, and ways to harness it has become more efficient and safe, skyrocketing everyone's quality of life. Restricting it is going to set us all back to the stone ages.

>> No.3499213

>>3499001
A stupid, uninformed, contrarian comment? Yes, I'm still on 4chan.

>> No.3499217

I also don't understand how it's supposed to work, if the lifestream is supposed to be living souls returning to the planet, wouldn't the lifestream get recycled back even if it was used as energy?

>> No.3499248

>>3499207
Yes there are lots of other forms of exploration, such as deforestation, overfishing, and so on, but Shinra is supposed to be a gestalt of all environmentally exploitative anthropogenic practices - Shina is literally destroying the planet, for instance the area around Midgar is devoid of any kind of life whatsoever.

>>3499217
They use the lifeforce to generate electricity. It gets used up when it turns into electricity. The energy in the electricity gets used up as work and heat.

>> No.3499250

>>3499207
The game has to make it worse than it is to get it's point across. Production is still dangerous in many ways, not just to the environment, and many people suffer for it. That being said, I've been working in energy for 8 years now(oil, ng, coal, chemical, name it) and you're right on, the effects and risks have been greatly reduced over the last 30 years. But there always has to be an opposition, if there wasn't none of the advancements would have ever been made. I believe this game absolutely has an agenda, and I'm thankful for it. I wouldn't necessarily say it's about the US, other countries are much worse offenders, the worst offense of the US is the willingness to consume and waste(although they have their fair share of polluting).

>> No.3499293

>>3499120
I totally meant 6. Either way there is no "job system" in 6 anyway

>> No.3499303

>>3499068
Doesn't reeve call you out on that and say you're monsters for doing that as you killed hundreds of people in that blast

>> No.3499306

>>3499067
The turks game had a mission where there was another one. She lived near cosmo canyon

>> No.3499307

>>3499213
Contrarian comments that hate on traditionally popular games have become so commonplace here that now to support a popular game is in itself contrarian. We've come full circle.

>> No.3499319

>>3499303
I'm pretty sure, yeah. It's no different than Muslims suicide bombing people "for the greater good".

It's actually a pretty good metaphor for how every group is the hero of their own story.

>> No.3499327

>>3499213
>>3499307
Let me just stop you both right there: I didn't say it was a bad game. I said it was a poor re-creation of a good game, as in it was re-created poorly.

>> No.3499331

>>3499293
I just wanted to be a cheeky fucker for your common mistake

>> No.3499361

>>3499331
Yeah, I get it. You got me, anon.

>> No.3499391

Throughout the history of Final Fantasy you can see what was popular in anime/manga reflected in the games. A lot of the imagery of the early games is directly lifted from Miyazaki's Nausicaa and the green message is definitely part of that. VII also mixes a lot of the cyberpunk/dystopian/military procedural imagery that we associate with Akira, various manga by Masamune Shirow, and films by Mamoru Oshii.

I actually played through FF7 early this past year and I was rereading Appleseed at the time and I couldn't unsee Masamune Shirow in the game.

Of course, Shirow seems to think war and violence are central to the human experience

>> No.3499393
File: 28 KB, 395x218, FfVI-tech_demo.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3499393

>>3499327
>I said it was a poor re-creation of a good game

But that was not true whatsoever. FF7 was meant to be a detective game set in the near future (1999) and the original concept game was more like parasite eve. The real FF7 shifted farther into the future and the classic FF elements were added back in.

You are probably thinking of the final fantasy SGI tech demo. Western game magazines incorrectly teased it as the new FF game but it was just a tech demo made by square staff i ntheir spare time. They used FFVI concepts with 3D models because character designs were not ready yet for the real FFVII. This confusion was common in the mid-90s until the real game came closer to release date.

To this date retards still seem to think there was a 3D remake of FFVI planned at the time "but FF7 ruined it".

>> No.3499396

>>3498995
If Barret and IIRC one single boxer or something in Midgar are the only two black people in the world, then who are their parents? Are they related? If so, how come they don't recognize each other?

Are they just the products of one of Shinra's secret experiments?

>> No.3499406

>>3499391
>Miyazaki
is that guy some kind of animist? I know he's a socialist and feminist, but Mononoke was all animism and it was still a popular world view in Japan; Yoko Kanno has the view, and Hironobu Sakagushi as well. FFVII definitely has that core message, then The Spirits Within had the same thing.

>> No.3499413

>>3499393
Okay, man. Not going to argue

>> No.3499416

>>3499393
>FF7 was meant to be a detective game set in the near future (1999) and the original concept game was more like parasite eve.
I read that Xenogears was the original draft before all the material they worked on was split into Xenogears, FFVII, and Parasite Eve.

>> No.3499423

>>3499416
Isn't Parasite Eve based on a novel though?

>> No.3499426
File: 15 KB, 145x242, NPC-ffvii-man14.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3499426

>>3499396
There are a few black NPCs roaming around here and there.

>> No.3499435

>>3499416

Yep. After the near-future detective story idea was dropped, the darker game that went on to become xenogears was briefly tossed around as anther potential FF7 setting, or as a possible sequel to chrono trigger.

It is funny how the development cycle works. Creative people throw a ton of ideas on the table, scrap them, and years later dust them off and use them for other projects.

>> No.3499436

>>3499423
The mitochondria concept in Parasite Eve was what was originally planned for Jenova cells in FFVII. I don't know if it was inspired by the novel and they decided to make a game based on that instead, or if it was some coincidence and just a conceptual similarity. I think it was the latter since a lot of it is based on gnostic ideas, like Jenova being the stand in for Sophia and her different parts being split and compelled to reunite, etc. In the final game she's an alien entity and her cells isn't inherent to every human.

>> No.3499446

>>3499393
>But that was not true whatsoever. FF7 was meant to be a detective game set in the near future (1999) and the original concept game was more like parasite eve.

Glad that idea was dumped. What we got was one of the coolest settings in the series.

>> No.3499448

>>3499435
I think that's all part of the reason why Square games have declined in quality. They put in all this effort to do all this research for the game, they built the world and lore, and now they use the same material over and over (even retconning it to oblivion with the spin offs) ((This is why communism is bound to fail))

>> No.3499461

>>3499423
>Isn't Parasite Eve based on a novel though?

Yes but the game concepts they had already worked with could easily be adapted to it.

Film noir late 90s setting with an American cop/detective looking into shady shit that eventually escalates into fighting bio monsters. When the novel was released in 1995 square just dusted off their old FF7 concept.

They ended up having to start from scratch anyway due to hardware changes from SNES, and it became more of a survival horror game.

>> No.3499465

>>3499063
>Which is analogous to the (simplistic) view that America invades countries for oil (which isn't the case).

The fuck we don't. Just because we aren't building the infrastructure for oil doesn't mean we aren't defending countries that do (and consequently sell us the oil)

Our entire economy is based on the petrodollar and defending Israel, it's the only two reasons we ever go to war.

>> No.3499470

>>3499465
>we
The Military Industrial Complex isn't 'we'. And there's plenty of oil here in the States, what's happening over in the middle east is business run by the shadow government.

>> No.3499476

Hate to be that guy, but VII just copied shit from VI. The whole "planet" shit was just another way of approaching the topic of espers and being close to nature.

If we're talking about allegories original to VII and that game alone, Tifa is an allegory to Square employees liking huge-breasted women with long black hair.

>> No.3499482

>>3499001
>it's supposed to be the same game but not the same game

>> No.3499525

>>3499036
birds : /

>> No.3499527

>>3499482
>It's supposed to be Final Fantasy 6 3D but not the exact same game
>Final Fantasy 6 3D but not the exact same game
>But not the exact same game
>Not the exact same game
>The exact same game
>Exact same game
>Exact same
>Exact

>> No.3499543

>>3499525
>: /
Get out.

>> No.3499547

>>3499543
when you come to Los Angeles you can suck my cock.

>> No.3499904

>>3498995
is this game outdated now? How much do you think they'll change in the remake? I want to play it but...I don't know...will the remake make it obsolete?

>> No.3499918

>>3499904
They'll probably fuck it up like every other remake they've came out with so far. I'd just grab the FF7 isos off of emuparadise and call it a day, but that's just me.

>> No.3499921

>>3499918
What about the PC version? I read it has inferior dialogue in some places, and in other places it's said that it's improved with some grammatical fixes.

>> No.3499926

>>3499476
Have you actually played VII beyond the prologue? If anything the ancients are a pretty obvious comparison to the espers, and Cloud and Terra both fit into the 'puppet' trope, but the overall story arcs of the two games are radically different.

>> No.3499939

The game is baised off the Gaia hyothosis

>> No.3499942

>>3499904
No? Where do you think you are?

"Remake" will be FF13 with an FF7 advent children theme.

>> No.3499943

>>3499942
>Where do you think you are?
Right here.

>> No.3499983

>>3499061
Doesn't mean it cant be as bad and make about as much sense as Fan Fiction though.

Just look at after years

>> No.3500014

>>3499921
If it's the original PC version, maybe, otherwise I'd still just grab the ISOs off of emuparadise. Try for the original ISOs before they censored the 'fucks' and where Tifa tells Cloud to stop being retarded

>> No.3500078

>brought the world out of ooga booga stone age
>made transportation and trade exponentially easier
>protects the populace from the metric asston of monsters that inhabit the world
Reminder that Shinra did nothing wrong and Avalanche is nothing but a bunch filthy terrorists.

>>3499396
Isn't Rude kinda-sorta black like The Rock?

>> No.3500227

>>3500014
I played the steam version recently, the retarded line is still in the game, and they only censored barret saying shit, its essentially the green label version as opposed to the black label version, but the translation is still shit regardless

>> No.3500359

>>3499306
Thanks senpai

>> No.3500560
File: 27 KB, 550x360, 0208-george-w-bush-2[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3500560

>>3499063
>(which isn't the case)

>> No.3500730

>>3499063
They do try to defend humanity from the Weapons and fuck up one with the Mako Cannon pretty effectively.

>> No.3500774

>>3499001
this is bait

>> No.3501072

>>3499057

>presumably

Well if you hadn't fucked up Sephiroth, meteor would have wiped out all biological life and then he'd consume the lifestream filled at max capacity. Then he'd ride the planet's dead husk through space, most likely being up to no good.

>> No.3501082

>>3498995
BOMBU ZA HABAA!!!

>> No.3501087

>>3500560
Honestly it isn't. I'm not saying the Iraq War (that'd be the Second Gulf War to Europeans I think) was done for noble reasons, but it wasn't just "hey let's get their oil". Ultimately though it was more a matter of old, primitive, classical honor-shame-culture dynastic-style honor. A) Bush felt that Saddam remaining in power was an insult to his father, and B) after Bush demanded he give them his WMDs (which we knew he had because we gave them to him. Yes, do the research, we gave him bioweapons to use again Iran, and the Gulf War (that'd be the first one) happened when he decided to use them to invade Kuwait, one of our allies. Yes, giving him weapons was shady and terrible, but it also means that yes he had fucking weapons, even if he got rid of them before he let us send inspectors (and yes, we did have to give him like a year before we could send inspectors)), not invading would've made him seem weak.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I'd say it wasn't about oil (at least not primarily). It was first and foremost about getting rid of Saddam (who, to be fair, was in fact a murderous dictator, though he was a useful one to us as he kept things stable and was good at dealing with terrorists, and it would've been in the best interest of us and the West in general to keep him in power). At most, the oil aspect was just another reason that Saddam had to go.

If we invaded places solely to get their oil, explain why we haven't invaded Saudi Arabia? I mean, all the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, Osama bin Laden was a literal Saudi aristocrat it would've been much easier for us to cook up an excuse to invade Saudi Arabia than Iraq which had nothing at all to do with it, and wasn't even attacking any of our allies at the time.

>> No.3501843

>>3500227
Hmm, I might have to check it out.