/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3470857]

Street Fighter II and Alpha series have some of the most broken AI in fighting games. I'm serious: I've played SNK fighters, ArcSys ones, and many others. And Capcom takes the crown for keeping the most unfair yet dumb AI in their flagship fighter, for years.

—The computer doesn't need to charge moves. With Balrog, it can throw bash after bash. With Dee Jay, it can spam reversals/projectiles all day.

—It can get 10+ hits with holds (like Ken's knee bash, or picrelated). This easily destroys half your life bar. This was so in Super Turbo, and wasn't changed even in Alpha 3.

—Most importantly, the computer reads your input and can react with lightning speed to your moves. There's no way a human player can jump AT THE SAME TIME as you and kick you out of the air. Oh, you threw a projectile? Good, AI saw you entered QCF+punch so it jumped beforehand and kicked your ass. You did a sweep? DP your shit… and so on, and so forth.

—Meanwhile, it falls for the most stupid tactics. For example, in Super Turbo, Bison can't do shit against Ryu's whirlwind kick. He always falls for it. Same goes for half the cast. Why does opponent do 3 whiffing DPs in a row? I have no idea.

Just fuck you, Capcom. By 1998, you could have fixed this in Street Fighter Alpha 3. Instead, you kept it unchanged.

[Anonymous No.3470878]

>>3470857
That is not MKII nor UMK3....

[Anonymous No.3470879]

Super Street Fighter II Turbo suffers from the Mortal Kombat syndrome where the AI reads your inputs.

[Anonymous No.3470893]

>>3470878
>>3470879
MK is different story. I never really took it that seriously. Yes, there were big MK championships too, but I doubt many people will tell you it has balance on par with SF/KoF/whatever.

By 1998, KoF'98 had pretty fair, challenging AI, interesting to play against. And SFA3 STILL had the 13+ hit hold bullshit.

[Anonymous No.3470915]

>>3470857

You're adorable

[Anonymous No.3471008]

You need to get good. OP is an underage nu-male that wants it easy instead of earning the W.

[Anonymous No.3471017]

>>3471008
I think what anon is trying to say is that the AI is just simple. not complex. and that the AI uses little tricks and gimmicks to slash your health bar in half.

[Anonymous No.3471019]

>>3470857
It sounds like you're just bad at fighting games.

[Anonymous No.3471025]

who cares, fighting games on single-player are boring either way

[Anonymous No.3471037]

>>3470857
>Most importantly, the computer reads your input and can react with lightning speed to your moves

Mortal Kombat II was much worse.

[Anonymous No.3471110]

It is pretty funny how bad they cheat and this is coming form someone who has 1cc with multiple characters.Let us not forget they also manipulate how much damage you take to be extremely high and them low, get out of dizzies instantly,do reversal throws at any moment possible. No amount of mashing will get you out of those hold throws that take up to 1/2-3/4 your health.Hell one time I was fighting akuma with Ryu and did a super and traded hadoukens with Akuma. He had chip damage left to kill him and he had no health left yet still won. I also think akumas hitstun is different compared to other characters.


>>3471037

Unless you abuse jumping backwards and knocking them when they come towards you, I'd agree. Fucking lol them ducking a uppercut before you do yours.

UMK3 ai is assrape too unless you jump backwards, stick out a kick and do a teleport. The cpu will always throw a projectile.

[Anonymous No.3471119]

>>3470857
After playing some SFA II recently, I absolutely agree.

Playing KOF '98 afterwards is such a different experience. You get AI that is actually willing to play footsies with you and seems fair and almost like playing a human opponent.

That's instead of perfect-playing your ass through input reading but losing to cheap bullshit like sweeps and tatsu.

[Anonymous No.3471206]

>>3471017
It's almost as if OP shouldn't have expected a fully fledged AI on the SNES that would be indistinguishable from a human player.

[Anonymous No.3471613]

your point? fighting games are not there to play against broken AI

[Anonymous No.3471657]

>>3471119
Yep. My point exactly.

>>3471008
>>3471019
My point completely went over your head.

You think one can offset the AI's advantages with skill. But that's just not true. If you get caught in AI hold, you pretty much have wasted your credit. There's NOTHING you can do to escape it. And if you play with handicap, in SFA3 Guy can destroy you with a single 13-hit hold, taking 100% of your health.

You think one needs to just play better? With AI, that simply doesn't matter. Jumping against AI with an attack won't work in 90% of cases: it jumps at the same time and kicks you right out of the air. It's like playing battleship with someone who sees all your ships.

I beat the single player of the arcade version on hardest difficulty in ST. Not on one credit because of the said holds; but knowing the glaring holes in AI's gameplay, it was very easy. Honda always makes his flying headbutt, when even the most retarded human with down syndrome would realize that it doesn't work against projectiles. Dee Jay can't stop whirlwind kick for shit, as well as Bison. Most characters will always jump when you crouch, which is easily stoppable with an uppercut or any other anti-air. Even Akuma, being broken as fuck, always walks back when you advance, opening up for a throw.

AI-controlled characters also have very noticeable patterns, and I shit you not—they were COMPLETELY translated from ST to Alpha 3. In ST, Blanka always did this ritual-like "trick": do 3 anti-air in a row when you're not even close—like a demo. In SFA3, he acts EXACTLY the same. Same with Honda, same with every old character really.

Why do they do 3 DPs of increasing power in a row? What does it mean? Is this a reflection on the emptiness of life of Japanese salaryman working at a software company? How did Capcom not fix this all these years? One can only wonder.

I used to treat SNK fighters like inferior shameless copies of SF. But somehow, SNK managed to write decent AI for their games.

[Anonymous No.3471689]

>>3471613
They had rigged AI which made you waste credits if you played at an arcade. Also, you need to start from somewhere, but the AI in SF doesn't make you learn shit.

[Anonymous No.3472075]

>>3470857
You've clearly never played Mortal Kombat, OP. Good luck even getting to the third fight in MK3. After playing those games for years I could not believe how fair and easy Alpha 2 and 3 were. I ended up beating both on 4 stars in like a day or two. SF2 (SNES) took a while longer because of Vega. Your complaints are valid, they don't have to charge moves and get good priority over you, but until you've seen an opponent throw you while they're knocked flat on their ass (MK) you haven't seen nothing.

[Anonymous No.3472095]

I was gonna make a thread about this game
SF2 is GOAT

[Anonymous No.3472106]

>playing fighting games against the AI

I shiggy diggy.

[Anonymous No.3472108]

>>3472106
When I see posts like this it just tells me the poster can't git gud enough to beat the AI. Everyone agrees it's harder than versus a real opponent so why shy from the challenge?

[Anonymous No.3472119]

>>3472108

>not realizing AI is only meant for you to waste quarters on
>being this stupid

[Anonymous No.3472165]

>>3472108
Negro please, beating fighter AI is just figuring out which move the computer is being the most aggressive with and using it's own momentum against it. The only way to truly face an unpredictable opponent is to play an experienced friend.

[Anonymous No.3472213]

>>3472165
Most people don't have an EVO champion living on their block.

[Anonymous No.3472337]

>>3472213
Are you seriously trying to parallel the cheap tactics of dumb AI to competing against top-tier pro-gamers?

[Anonymous No.3472364]

>>3472337
It's only cheap if you don't understand. Hence, git gud and learn how to counter the AI and outsmart it.

[Anonymous No.3472464]

>>3472364
Fuck out of here, I am good, that's why playing against cheap AI isn't a challenge, the name of the game is Street Fighter, not "outsmart these retarded spambots", beating the computer is fine if you're bored, but practicing against a human with a brain is way more fun.

[Anonymous No.3472516]

>It's a FGC sees other people having fun a different way and feels the need to act superior thread

[Anonymous No.3472581]

>>3470857
>playing fighters for the single player

[Anonymous No.3472668]

>>3472581
What kind of pie is that?

[Anonymous No.3472672]

>>3472119
Literally this. Any fighting game that hails from the arcades is going to be designed to suck your quarters. The AI will read your input, have higher priority, its moves will do more damage, etc.

[Anonymous No.3472675]

>>3472668
truth pie

[Anonymous No.3472834]

>>3472672
charge characters don't even charge; computer does combos you cannot

[Anonymous No.3472909]

I have to agree with people saying you need to get good....seriously man, I do arcade runs on those games semi regularly to kill time here and there and I never have that much of a problem with them at all, you just need to get better at the game, maybe fight some human opponents who are actually good...then the AI won't seem so hard

>>3472213
>Most people don't have an EVO champion living on their block.

You do realize there are very easy ways to play people online...for free even, right?

[Anonymous No.3472925]

>>3472909
Beating the AI has nothing to do with real opponents though, it's all about learning the patterns.

[Anonymous No.3472940]

>>3472909
Bullshit. Learning to fight the AI is at best useless, and at worst harmful, if you want to play real people. You don't want to build up muscle memory for cheap tactics that work against the AI, but are useless against people.

Now there's nothing wrong with wanting to play single player fighting games (I'd side with the people who say it get stale quickly, but whatever your thing is) but if your goal is to fight real people playing the AI is worthless. You're better off playing a console release with a training mode, or setting up a second player with no input to practice execution and timing.

Online play is your best bet, and today with ways of playing arcade emulators with a large community of players nobody has an excuse. You want to get good? Play people online. Playing the AI only makes you a scrub.

[Anonymous No.3472952]

>>3472940
>>3472925
I didn't say fighting the AI would help you beat online opponents, I said fighting people who are actually really good at the game will make you understand how easy the AI actually is

If OP is having trouble with arcade runs in SFII or the Alpha games, I'm assuming he's just not very good yet in general and it might do him some good to experience an actual challenge instead of complaining about fairly easy games to beat on single player

[Anonymous No.3472983]

Fighting AI is the best way to learn the game is the major flaw of SFV that it doesn't have an arcade ladder. You use the AI to practice your inputs and learn the feel of your character. If you win that is great, but that shouldn't be your immediate goal. You should just use it to train with so you are comfortable with your character.

>b-but training mode

Beating up on a stationary dummy isn't the same. Having it jump around and attack is great pressure so you can learn to get moves out in time. I make sure I can do a 1cc run with a character before I even think about taking them online because if I can't even do that then I'm definitely not ready for online.

[Anonymous No.3473017]

>>3472909
>You do realize there are very easy ways to play people online...for free even, right?

Why would I want to play games with faceless assholes like you?

[Anonymous No.3473036]

>>3473017
Spoken like a true scrub too scared to be beat

> b-but my win/loss ratio
Nobody cares. Nobody. If you do you should kill yourself to return the universe back to it's stable "nobody gives a shit about your w/l or k/d ratio in online games" state.

[Anonymous No.3475825]

>>3470857
AI cheats is all of the sf games. SFII ai is pretty exploitable. You can force it to do dumb/punishable stuff all the time. Which is fun. The only SFII game i hate is the usa version of hyper SFII AE. It's so bloody frustrating.

[Anonymous No.3475916]

Why are fighting game fans so damn salty?

[Anonymous No.3475936]

>>3475916
>someone who plays only the computer
>fighting game fan

questionable. but frustration is part of the learning process (like most worthwhile things)

[Anonymous No.3476072]

>>3475916
dude act like a white person around these parts please, don't go full nigger on us

[Anonymous No.3476102]

>>3472983
Survival?

[Anonymous No.3477482]

3s vs AI is also stupid. No working Okizeme at all. Overhead get always blocked due to button reading, as get most throws. Luckily the AI is not really good, I never played it on high difficulty though.

Gill on the other hand... But i bet there are also exploits, I found a some. One famous is UOH, which he blocks, then do uppercut.

Aegis corner 50/50 is also mostly useless against AI obviously. You can practice to punish whiffs with c.mk super against AI Hugo though. Helped me at the beginning.

[Anonymous No.3477505]

>AI
lolwhocares

[Anonymous No.3477603]

only ai i have a problem with is 2 turbo ai.
i'll never beat that shit cleanly

[Anonymous No.3478101]

>>3477603
that is truly on another level
>enemy jumps
>range and angle not right for an antiair
>I guess I just block then
>empty jumps and sweeps

[Anonymous No.3479006]

These were initially arcade games programmed to eat quarters, so of course the AI's are difficult.

If you can't decrease the difficulty, then just exploit the AI. Like that guy playing MKII on very hard using mostly jump kicks.

[Anonymous No.3479026]

>>3470857
No AI is actually good in fighting games. But it has slowly gotten better over time. That's why SF II feels even worse than the last Arcsys game you played.

Either way, don't waste your time with single player mode unless you're just goofing around.

[Anonymous No.3479052]

>WAAAAAAHHH
Git gud

[Anonymous No.3479058]

I can't be the only one that feels these games are really incomplete without a single player campaign?

[Anonymous No.3479119]

>>3479058
What games? List examples instead of being a whining prick. Playing fighting games versus a human opponent is immensely more satisfying than any single player mode.

[Anonymous No.3479134]

>>3479058
That's like saying Metroid is incomplete without a multiplayer mode. Different games exist for different reasons.

[Anonymous No.3479258]

>>3470857
Back then, to make AI feel smart they programmed them to literally read your inputs. It's easy to do that and fighting games should be played against humans anyway if you really want to get into fighting game balance.q

[Anonymous No.3479326]

>>3479058
well yeah.
it'd be kind of terrible if you had to wait for somebody to play with you at the arcade
nowadays it's more online minded, but people with no internet should be able to enjoy themselves as well.

[Anonymous No.3479446]

[Anonymous No.3479462]

>>3479446
"Hey Sagat, that was my car, man!"

[Anonymous No.3479467]

>>3479119
All of them.

[Anonymous No.3479473]

>>3479326
Why bother, fighting the cpu is literally throwing your skills in the trash

[Anonymous No.3479482]

>>3479134
First off Metroid Prime did have multiplayer modes.
But it's not the same though, here you have awesome art and music assets but no way to enjoy them unless you live close to a japanese arcade or slave thousands of hours until you git gud enough to play online.

[Anonymous No.3479504]

fighting games are a shitty unfun meme

[Anonymous No.3479508]

>>3479504
either youre shit, you had/have no friends or your friends never explained the controls to you and you got mad

[Anonymous No.3479719]

>>3470857
The AI not having to charge always pissed me off. You could clearly tell they never had to.

[Anonymous No.3480251]

>>3472909
>play against the AI
>get called a scrub because you should be playing real people instead

>play real people
>get decimated, get called a scrub for wasting someone's time

[Anonymous No.3480387]

>>3479473
some people are never ever going to play online

[Anonymous No.3480391]

OP here. So I've mostly played with shotos all my life, but decided to try and learn Balrog (boxer) in ST now. I will get incredible speed, right? Great priority too and range too, right? But AI just got fucking insane.

First match, Fei Long. I get DP'd every fucking time I use any rush punch. Every. Fucking. Time. The DP deals 2 hits to me, with huge damage. I can't jump: as usual, AI jumps too and hits me out of the air. I have to turtle. Turtle, with the fucking Balrog.

I admit this taught me that rush doesn't have very good priority though. But still, the input reading is painfully obvious in the game.

[Anonymous No.3480542]

>>3480391
rush has a very good priority. Extremely good for such a fast rush move, and even as an attack without this movement the priority is good. It just loses to dragonpunches, which pretty much beat anything.

[Anonymous No.3480749]

>>3471025
>>3472337
>>3479473
>>3477505
CAUTION: Capcom SFV employee detected

[Anonymous No.3481042]

>>3480749
Lol no kiddo, that's just your average person who isn't so shit at vs that they only ever play single player.

[Anonymous No.3481045]

>>3479482
Or you know... you could find a friend who's similarly unskilled and play with them. That's one of the great things about this genre.

>Metroid Prime

[Anonymous No.3481212]

>>3480542
Wouldn't say so. Straight Rush—definitely no.

[Anonymous No.3481261]

>>3481212
Nigga plz. this IS a good priority/hitbox. I mean what more do you want from a dashpunch. Best dashpunch in fighting game history(maybe not, but you know what Im getting at). It so fast. And safe.

Of course its not a running red wall/dashing dragonpunch that is safe. Not sure if you can beat it out with standing lp, maybe with something like a low far kick with the right timing. Still you rarely see it beaten out by something else than a fireball or maybe Dhalsims low limbs. Maybe Claws c.mp, I dont know.
Not even sure if you can beat it out with something like a good neutral jump attack(which works a lot in later fighting games against different rushpunches).

Trust me, this is a good prioirty/hitbox for a move like this. On top of it, yeha, you shouldnt use ths straight rush in ground game too much anway. But it all pro matches, the boxers literally abuse his low rushpunch. It is his thing, like Ryus hadoken.

He pretty much only has too fear fireballs(which of course is a huge deal) and dhalsims pokes, other than that its free to use.

Btw, is there a data base with all hitboxes? Link pls!

[Anonymous No.3481274]

>>3481045
I don't have any friends :(

[Anonymous No.3481281]

>>3480251
>play fighters
>get constantly bullied

[Anonymous No.3481297]

>>3481274
Take this as a warning, kids.

[Anonymous No.3481348]

>>3481261
> It so fast. And safe.
Yes and yes. But… both of these points don't matter against AI! Despite it really IS super fast, AI reads it like it was telegraphed for several seconds. I'm not kidding, every time I went JUST in the range of DP, I got a DP. Or a crouching kick/jab.

I agree that against live opponents though, it's amazing, and is exactly why I picked Balrog. It's perhaps THE fastest move in ST, both in terms of startup AND recovery. But against AI, all of this just doesn't matter.

>Not sure if you can beat it out with standing lp
That's another point… You absolutely can. Normals in ST have great priority, especially jabs: usualy the characters' whole arms are invincible. Yeah, live players probably can't do that. But AI? AI loves that.

Still, you know, I wouldn't say it has that great of priority. In terms of pure priority alone, you can see it: only the tip of his fist is invincible. But it already has insane speed, so it's balanced out. You can't possibly react to it, even prediction won't do much good. And anyway, for pure priority, Balrog has his headbutt; now that thing beats most DPs and has tons of invincibility, let alone that it pushes Balrog forward while you still have back charge.

> Btw, is there a data base with all hitboxes? Link pls!
Here you go http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Balrog_(ST) (at the bottom of the page is character select, there are other ones for different games too).

[Anonymous No.3481361]

>>3481348
>Yes and yes. But… both of these points don't matter against AI!

Which is why most people who are actually into fighters don't bother with single player. It turns it from a fast paced game of strategy to an exercise in abusing a specific exploit to beat an opponent not playing by the same rules. Best case scenario you waste your time trying to accomplish something pointless, more likely you end up making yourself even worse when you do try playing real people again.

[Anonymous No.3481394]

>>3481348
Yes, I was more refering to real street fighter/versus, not what the broken AI does, it can of course counter anything, even the best move.
Just wanted to give you a perspective on how good the move is.

Damn, I really didnt know jabs have such good of a hitbox/no hurtbox on the arm in ST. Good to know. well yeah, you can hit arial atacks out with jabs, like Blankas roll, Hondas headbutt(I think?) and Boxers dashpunch. Not like react to it, but throw it out here and there, when you expect it, and if it doesnt come you didnt lose much. But it wont shut down the use of those moves entirely of course.

Yes, his headbutt is of course a reversal/uppercut/invicible move, that is mostly not safe though. Of course great priority. You can make it safe in certain situation with the right distance I guess.

How does the AI deal with his hold? and you know, the loop setup into hold again?

Also you can try playing the patient ground game, if your antiair game is good. Like HP, c.mp, c.mk, c.hk are all great moves to poke.

thx for the link ,didnt know srk wiki has the hitboxes, good stuff.

oh yeah, look at the hitbox of his ground dashpunch. I mean with what do oyu want to hit that out? of course you CAN hit some c.mk/sweeps, but you cant possibly react and in most cases you will be hit too. In theory something like Claws far mk can beat it clean, but yeah, good luck.

[Anonymous No.3481396]

>>3481361
Yes. But I have to train somewhere, right. Like >>3472983 said, training mode doesn't do much good.

I don't expect the AI to substitute a live player. I just expect it to be a basic modulation of an opponent, good enough to simulate combat, to let me test my character in an actual combat against another character.

But when AI kicks me out of the air with a jumping attack in 90% of cases, or DPs me out of moves which have barely 5–10 frames of startup, it gets increasingly frustrating to just practice.

[Anonymous No.3481397]

>>3481348
>>3481361

but yeah, I gotta ask why not play it online then on fightcade? All incarnations of SF2, SFA 1-3, everything you want. You can play good people and not so good people. Really wouldnt bother with the AI.

[Anonymous No.3481402]

>>3481396
> basic modulation of an opponent, good enough to simulate combat,

but it isnt

[Anonymous No.3481407]

>>3481396
Train against AI to learn execution and build muscle memory. Don't waste time trying to learn how to play well from it. Real people just don't play like AI, especially in older games like SFII.

[Anonymous No.3481412]

>>3481396
>I just expect it to be a basic modulation of an opponent, good enough to simulate combat

It's one thing to have that expectation initially, but holding onto it this long isn't helping you any. I would love to have a flying car.

[Anonymous No.3481424]

>>3481394
>oh yeah, look at the hitbox of his ground dashpunch. I mean with what do oyu want to hit that out?
Um

It's not just Guile too, at the very least I can say that shotos have a lot of crouching/standing normals where their limbs are fully invincible. Goes for most jab/strong/st. fierce attacks (of course you can't st. fierce quickly, but it stays active for longer).

Ground rush has just a bit more priority, and it's Balrog's hitbox is pretty tall too, so I guess most standing attack that don't hit high will hit him. Haven't checked but still, crouching ones are not much different.

[Anonymous No.3481428]

>>3481407
Yeah it's exactly what I'm using it for.

>>3481412
>>3481402
OK, I mean, i use AI as a moving punching bag. For training purposes.

>>3481397
Because
1) I'm in Russia and the ping is atrocious. With US it's around 1000ms and up. So my best bet is usually Turkey ffs
2) No wired connection and even with it the ping is still there.

[Anonymous No.3481451]

>>3481428
>Yeah it's exactly what I'm using it for.
Then why did you say this?
>Yes and yes. But… both of these points don't matter against AI!

Unless you're someone different, you are worrying about the wrong things. Figuring out how to cheese Fei Long's AI with Balrog won't help you in any way. In all likelihood it will get you into a pattern where when you go against Fei you will end up playing similar to how you practiced against the computer and get demolished. Despite it being a very favorable match for your character.

Seriously, when playing the computer pay attention to how often your moves and combos are coming out properly. Use it to check specific things or countering certain attacks.

Other than that, don't waste your time unless you're just playing to goof around. AI, especially old AI is pure and utter shit for teaching you how to play well.

[Anonymous No.3481520]

>>3481428
I dont know how bad your connection is, underwater connection should be avoided anyway. Unless you live in central asia, you should be fine playing with people from EU/eastern EU. Im from germany, we can try if you want.

I mean even if you will become a god against AI and train your shit good, who do you plan to use it against then? You going for EVO?

[Anonymous No.3481767]

>>3481520
>Unless you live in central asia, you should be fine playing with people from EU/eastern EU
Yeah, but there are so few of them. Well, I was referring to KoF'98. Maybe with SF it's better, I haven't checked yet.

[Anonymous No.3481901]

>>3481428
I know that feel all too well.
I live in a empty part of the United States.
The local scene is absent, and my internet is shit.
I can stand to play a game where I lag so bad, especially when your inputs/reactions need to be nearly instant.

[Anonymous No.3481943]

>>3481901
Yeah exactly. It almost seems like fighters were deliberately created to be as demanding of internet connection as possible. Especially with stuff like 1 frame links.

I don't know how it is in US or what your ISP provides, but how shit can your connection really be? Do you have wired, or have you tried it? I played several games online via Fightcade with ~100ms ping on wireless. Maybe I was lucky, but to me ping wasn't that much of an issue.

[Anonymous No.3481981]

>>3481901
how can anyone in the USA still have shit internet?

>>3481943
>It almost seems like fighters were deliberately created to be as demanding of internet connection as possible. Especially with stuff like 1 frame links.

pls stop.

on a further note: Yeah of course even with a ping of 40 it wont be like offline, but I can play fine with an 80ping.
And I also play offline.

[Anonymous No.3482034]

>>3481981
No, of course I agree that fighting games are perfectly playable online. I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise: I play on the fucking MacBook keyboard, using a fightpad layout (space = up). Probably only some tournament veteran who can tell a difference between different arcade stick buttons would argue, but I'm fine with some microlag. It's just that, compared to MMO games, fighters do depend on connection very heavily.

And I'm at a really disadvantageous position here: don't want to clutter others' heads with useless info, but Street Fighter never got any big in Russia, overshadowed 1000 times by Mortal Kombat and Tekken. I guess same goes for most post-Soviet territories, especially given the game came out in the year of the USSR's collapse, ffs.

So finding anyone for offline play is very hard, to say the least. Of course there are few people playing SFIV online locally, but alas my Macbook can't even play this old game too well.

With KoF it's even harder, though.

[Anonymous No.3482056]

>>3481767

I'm ok being considered a Guerrero.

[Anonymous No.3482828]

>>3481767
100% on spot

[Anonymous No.3483230]

>>3481943
>Yeah exactly. It almost seems like fighters were deliberately created to be as demanding of internet connection as possible.

No they weren't. Certainly any retro one wasn't.


No, of course I agree that fighting games are perfectly playable online. I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise:

That's not hypocritical, that's common sense. Unless you have a rock solid net connection and the game has good net code (many don't including the official ports of SNK games) then fighters are essentially worthless online.

The death of arcade culture happened almost a decade before net code and net infrastructure were good enough to make fighters playable online. That's why SFIV had such a major impact. All the sudden people could play vs Street Fighter with opponents from all over the place from their living room. It essentially saved the genre.

[Anonymous No.3483241]

>>3470857
>>3470878
If you think Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat has a broken AI, then you never played Virtua Fighter 2.

[Anonymous No.3483246]

>>3483241
Yep, I haven't. What's so bad about it?

[Anonymous No.3483270]

>>3483246
it reads your moves 10x more hardcore than SF2 or Mortal Kombat, and always uses the perfect counter that is faster than your move, or has more range than your move.

For example if any of your moves have a single crouching frame, Jeffry will always do his crouching grab (power bomb or whatever it is called) that does 80% damage... then a jumping slam that kills you.

[Anonymous No.3483413]

>>3481767
I love KOF and I'm not mexican, they just for whatever reason seem to always be the best at it lol

[Anonymous No.3483594]

>>3483270
I remember that, the ai in vf2 is really frustrating

[Anonymous No.3485258]

>>3483413
For KoF fans outside of Mexico it's a choice. For Mexicans it's a lifestyle.

[Anonymous No.3485274]

>>3485258
What made KoF so much more popular? Do games like Tekken/Street Fighter come any close to it in terms of popularity?

[Anonymous No.3485295]

>>3485274
In the 90's Neo Geo cabinets were both cheaper and easier to put pirated games on which meant that in poorer countries like those in south and central America there were always more KoF machines than SF or Tekken.

That's how it started and set things so it was the standard fighter in those countries. Then most of then stuck with it because once you've learned KoF it's kind of hard to go back to simpler 1v1 fighters with more basic inputs.

[Anonymous No.3485336]

its not just mexico, kof is all over latin america

[Anonymous No.3485343]

>>3485295
Yeah, but what confuses me is that people had to put quarters into it. Wasn't it cheaper to buy a chipped PS One with Tekken?

[Anonymous No.3485359]

>>3485343
Quarters are still relatively easy to come by when you're poor compared to saving up for a PS1. But I was talking about that in terms of the arcade owners as opposed to the players. Cheaper cabs and easy pirating meant there were at least 10 KoF machines in latin arcades for every SF or Tekken one. And especially if you were raised on KoF, going to a mashy series like Tekken wouldn't be appealing to most players.

[Anonymous No.3485378]

>>3485359
> Quarters are still relatively easy to come by when you're poor compared to saving up for a PS1.
I thought I was poor in 1998 Russia

[Anonymous No.3485395]

>>3485378
Russians are known for being so poor they ate all the finches and stripped all the oak trees of their leaves for food. Also I had some seriously grotty alcohol made out of old furniture a Russian gave me once. Ruskies are next level poor. I feel terrible for the lot of them.

[Anonymous No.3485476]

>>3485395
Are you trolling

My friend finished high school in 1998 and managed to buy a PS despite crisis

[Anonymous No.3487673]

>>3470878
Anyone who thinks MK's AI is broken has never played.

[Anonymous No.3489543]

>>3481767
>kof
>not coreans
wut

[Anonymous No.3489753]

>>3489543
Some Koreans play other shit as well. Mexicans not so much.

[Anonymous No.3490406]

This reminds me
Samurai Shodown 3 had some ridiculous AI which read all your moves

But it was so easily exploitable
Taking Basara down for example is so easy...you just jump forward while defending he throws his Giant Shuriken at you and then when you land you can unleash a special move on his ass...you can literally do this shit over and over again

[Anonymous No.3490409]

>>3471657
>I used to treat SNK fighters like inferior shameless copies of SF
lolwut?
samsho 3 wipes the floor with any capcom fighter

[Anonymous No.3491485]

>>3490409
In what ways?

[Anonymous No.3491502]

>>3481767
Fucking hell I just got the Tekken joke.

[Anonymous No.3491632]

>>3491502
Tekken really may be the worst major fighting game series of all time.

[Anonymous No.3491889]

>>3470857
Of course the AI cheats. I figured that out the first time Guile took me out with a Sonic Boom while he was mid-jump.

[Anonymous No.3491910]

>>3491889
I don't think you're remembering that right. AI reacts to inputs but it doesn't do moves like fireballs in the air when the character normally can't.

[Anonymous No.3492281]

>>3491910
What a missed opportunity to get more quarters for Capcom

> AI can DP/fireball in mid-air
> AI has less block/hit stun
> AI can cancel any move into any move
> No limit for fireballs onscreen for AI

SNK boss syndrome would be nothing compared to Capcom AI syndrome

[Anonymous No.3492298]

>>3491485
Not him but (aside from SS2) Samurai Shodown 4 improved on 3 in so many ways... Strange to even bring it up. The effects in it were amazing though, and Haoumaru's standing animation WAS impressive. Maybe that's what he was getting at?

[Anonymous No.3492301]

>>3472165
>The only way to truly face an unpredictable opponent is to play an experienced friend.
>an experienced friend.
>unpredictable
You start developing patterns the longer you play

[Anonymous No.3493624]

>>3492281
That would be stupid. Remember, they weren't intentionally trying to make AI that was broken. The goal is to make playing the computer as close to playing another person as possible, it just doesn't work out very well. The problem is that if it doesn't cheat then it's too easy to beat. So the only way to make it difficult at all is to cheat. It's lame, but that's reality. You can't program a computer to think like a human.

>>3492301
Yes, but as a human you can analyze those patterns and work to be more unpredictable, try new strategies or techniques. You can also watch the patterns your friend is starting to display and try to work around those, causing him to do the same. It's a cycle that keeps going and you get better and better.

[Anonymous No.3495487]

>>3493624
> That would be stupid.
I was making a sarcastic joke

[Anonymous No.3495510]

So was there ever any ai that actually is good at this shit?

[Anonymous No.3495514]

>>3470857
Single player has always sucked anyway.

[Anonymous No.3495523]

>>3472952
>I said fighting people who are actually really good at the game will make you understand how easy the AI actually is

Fallacy. Some AI is very difficult, like Virtua Fighter. It's just not worth wasting time on.

[Anonymous No.3495526]

>>3495510
OP here. It's far from perfect, but I'd say KoF AI has always been good enough for training.

It doesn't try to hit you out of moves (like in SF). But it punishes unsafe moves, allowing you to learn what can and what can be spammed safely.

Otherwise, of course it's nowhere near live players. It often falls for telegraphed supers, doesn't care about mixups/crossups, etc. But, again, for learning the playing basics (getting the feel for hitboxes, frame data and so on), it's miles better than SF2 AI which doesn't even allow you to learn—it either hits you out of a move before it starts or falls for it all the time.

[Anonymous No.3495597]

>I've played SNK
Obviously you haven't played '94 Rugal

The penultimate king of bullshit

[Anonymous No.3495601]

>>3495597
Of course I mean that bosses are an exception. SNK boss syndrome, yadda yadda.

[Anonymous No.3495917]

>op can't git gud so he posts a butthert thread