Water Level General

[Anonymous No.3452263]

Why do water levels suck so much in games?

Actually I can answer that: they're slow, hard to control, and usually break-up the game's flow with gameplay that is only found in the water level.

So why did so many developers employ this horrid game design?

Also water level general I guess. Discuss your favorite and least favorite water levels and memories.

[Anonymous No.3452294]

>>3452263
The ones in Donkey Kong Country 1-3 were dope.

[Anonymous No.3452327]

>>3452263
Wow, you showed the worst water level ever. Great choice, OP. What a horrible game, out of the water as well.

[Anonymous No.3452339]

Some games do water levels right.

Tomb Raider had the Cistern stage where you raised and lowered the water level to get around and solve parts of one larger puzzle. Water itself wasn't a problem in TR (unless you sucked at swimming) but you needed to use the level to your advantage to open up different places in the Cistern.

TR2 had a decent part of its 2nd act in water levels, and I really liked the variation they gave to the gameplay - in the first you start off so far beneath the surface of the ocean that you're given no option but to swim for dear life. There's sharks too but your oxygen meter is your main concern. Traversing the wreck of the Maria Doria was awesome too.

[Anonymous No.3452353]

there's nothing wrong with water levels. I think in practice, it's hard for designers to get them right.

[NESfag No.3452375]

In Exhumed / Powerslave, Sunken Palace level.

Really good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It9-knsQmwo

[Anonymous No.3452383]

Spyro 2 water levels and Hydrocity Zone are the best

[Anonymous No.3452408]

Fuck this shit

[Anonymous No.3452567]

>>3452263
DKC and Mega Man have great water stages.

In DKC you move at a good starting speed and Enguarde goes even faster. The level design helps, if you know the levels you never have to be too precise.

You move at the same walking speed underwater in MM. The heightened jump can lead to some cool mechanics, especially when you have to jump out onto land

[Anonymous No.3452909]

>>3452263
Oh my god, are you're saying that one of my levels could have been BAD?!?

[Anonymous No.3453082]

The only time a water level is bad is if the game it's in has terrible gameplay mechanics underwater. Control is everything.

[Anonymous No.3453103]

>>3452567
Not always true for MM games. But yeah, DKC water levels were some of the best.

[Anonymous No.3453110]

More water level featuring games need this.
>Frog Suit actually makes playing in water levels fun!

[Anonymous No.3453119]

>Simultaneously the most useless and useful Rush upgrade.

[Anonymous No.3453124]

>Not a terrible water level.

[Anonymous No.3453130]

I still shudder every time I play this game and know I *have* to play this level in order to beat it.

[Anonymous No.3453138]

Still, Fuck Lobstermen!

[Anonymous No.3453160]

>>3452263
Aristarchus had great water levels. There's only really 3 (4 stage if you include the boss) but he controls well, and if it ever felt too slow one take of a button would make him breaststroke and go way too fast, but do it near the surface and prepare to go flying.

[Anonymous No.3453163]

>>3453160
Ristar. What the fuck abomination is that autocorrect.

[Anonymous No.3453524]

[Anonymous No.3453525]

[Anonymous No.3453526]

Fuck this level right off

[Anonymous No.3453527]

[Anonymous No.3454036]

>>3452263
>Not liking the best water level ever

If diffusing time-bombs in a claustrophobic, electrified cave system filled with poisonous seaweed is too much for you to handle, maybe you should stick to tetris kid.

FUCK YEAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2MS2mAs3uU

[Anonymous No.3454096]

>>3453110
>>3453119
>>3453124
Who are you quoting? Stop samefagging and lurk the fuck more please.

[Anonymous No.3454105]

Earthworm jim water lvl was ok.

[Anonymous No.3454135]

>>3454105
DOWNVOTE THESE LIIIIIIIIES

Music was bitchin' though.

[Anonymous No.3454226]

>>3454135
One thing i notice is water lvls sometimes have really good music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQQ--FrGfj8

[Anonymous No.3454773]

>>3452294
Also worth noting how the water levels in each game have what are among the best songs of the trilogy.

[Anonymous No.3454794]

>>3454773
you said "water" where you meant "bramble"

[Anonymous No.3454804]

>>3454105
Sometimes I feel like the only person on earth who likes that level. Once you get the hang of the momentum it's really fun. But then I often like water levels. Ecco the Dolphin is my favorite game of all time.

[Anonymous No.3454885]

>>3454794
Not really. Aquatic Ambiance, Lockjaw's Saga and Water World are great songs too.

[Anonymous No.3456186]

>>3452327
Not really.

You ever actually play it? Or are you just parroting youtubers?

It only really gets annoying once you have to look for the technodrome.

[Anonymous No.3456192]

I think the biggest problem with water levels is that they fuck with how the game feels.

By the time you get to a water level, you know how the game controls and feels then, boom, water level. Now your controls feel weird and your muscle memory is causing you to fuck up.

[Anonymous No.3456231]

Cool meme

Good games have good water levels and bad games have bad water levels

[Anonymous No.3456525]

>>3456231
Even good games have bad water levels, like Mario.

[Anonymous No.3456576]

Dino Crisis 2 under water section

[Anonymous No.3456617]

>>3456576

Fuck I hated those levels. I wish I could have skipped them entirely. But NOPE have to do them. I remember when I got closer to the end of the game the challenge started to get sucked out. Suddenly I had crazy amounts of ammo with the most powerful weapons, allowing me to fuck shit up wholesale.

[Anonymous No.3456637]

[Anonymous No.3456638]

>>3456617
Never had a problem, beated the game twice and I love this section of the game, I wish more games have this kind of gameplay.

[Anonymous No.3456643]

[Anonymous No.3456664]

[Anonymous No.3457027]

>>3452339
My nigga.

TR2 was the best. So good that I don't understand the aversion to water levels.

[Anonymous No.3457316]

>>3453138

Lobstermen are only a problem if you run into them before you have sonic weapons researched. Once you have something that can actually pierce their armour, their lame reflexes makes them sitting ducks.

But yeah, trying to take out a lobsterman with earth tech is a challenge.

[Anonymous No.3458209]

>>3457316
I've always been tempted to play TFTD because the setting seems fucking awesome and spooky as hell.

However, if it's just a palette swap of the original, which I have played many times, I'd rather not bother like, I have read every enemy is basically an exact match of the original. Weapons are palette swapped and renamed etc etc).

Does TFTD have anything else going for it that adds to the game? I also read the research tree has some gamebreaking bugs in it...

[Anonymous No.3458274]

I remember liking the water level(s?) in Rayman 2, but it's been a while...

[Anonymous No.3459063]

>>3458209

>However, if it's just a palette swap of the original, which I have played many times, I'd rather not bother like, I have read every enemy is basically an exact match of the original.

Not quite. Some enemies are familiar, with a few tweaks (Chrysalids can fly ;)). Some are completely new. Thankfully, there is no proper analogue to the Ethereal, so the end game enemy composition is actually less threatening than in the original.

The weapons are reskinned and renamed, but often also rebalanced. For example, the equivalent of plasma weapons no longer have auto fire. Your sonic cannon (heavy plasma) is no longer a machine gun of death, but a slow, lumbering weapon you need to take very careful shots with. But in the end the difference is slight, as that's still going to be the main weapon you use.

>Does TFTD have anything else going for it that adds to the game?

The campaign progression is different. The difficulty is much higher, at least until you figure out the game. Different mission types, some of which are very intense.

>I also read the research tree has some gamebreaking bugs in it...

Yeah. That got me a few times in my childhood. If you're not playing with XComUtil yet, start now:
http://ufopaedia.org/index.php/XcomUtil

Even for the original game -- it actually makes the difficulty levels work. With XComUtil, the game works fine.

If you do decide to give TFTD a go (and you should), just remember that you don't have to do every single level. This is true in the original as well, of course, but in the end game TFTD is liable to throw a base mission at you every week. If you try to do every one, you will not have a good time. Do enough to keep your score up, ignore the rest.

[Anonymous No.3459168]

>>3459063
Thanks for the well thought out response anon. I might give this a shot. Have you heard of OpenXcom? Supposedly that's a good port of TFTD. I'll check and see if it has cleaned up that bug.

[Anonymous No.3459246]

>>3459168
>OpenXcom

The last time I tried that it was in alpha. If it's done, then great, but I always found it easier just to stick with dosbox.

[Anonymous No.3459260]

>>3452263
Because most games are land games, water levels change the mechanics entirely from what was previously established, games that prominently feature water or take place entirely within it don't feel as bad as your average water level.

[Anonymous No.3459294]

They're slow? OP never played MMX water levels. Good stuff, fast paced

Also Super Metroid water level was fantastic.

[Anonymous No.3459306]

>>3452263
Spyro 2 and 3 have great water levels.

[Anonymous No.3459308]

>Any Mario zone with the frog suit
>Zelda water temple
>Mega Man 2 Bubble Man

I personally like water maps

[Anonymous No.3459326]

>>3453526
It's not even a level, it's like 4 screens.

[Anonymous No.3459334]

>>3454036
>instrument cams are him playing rhythm instead of the main melody
dropped

[Anonymous No.3459345]

Super Mario Sunshine was like, entirely water... and it was fantastic

[Anonymous No.3459369]

>>3458274
The only on I can think of is when you have to follow the whale. There are levels with water but it's never the core feature, just a diversion. Luckily they are pretty good, the only thing that sucks is when you underwater in Rayman you can fully explore the beautiful environment cause you'll run out of air.

>>3459345
Ma nigga.

[Anonymous No.3459435]

>>3452263
Fuck both of these levels, ESPECIALLY terra tubes. Those godamn ducks will fuck your shit up every time. But I'll give credit to RARE for packing so much into a single level. I mean look at that complex shit.

[Anonymous No.3459775]

>>3459345

NOT
O
T

RETRO
E
T
R
O

[Anonymous No.3459779]

>>3452263
I liked that Super Metroid had a suit upgrade that allowed you to move normally in water.

[Anonymous No.3459783]

>>3459775
lmao dreamcast released in 99 is 'retro' but gamecube from 01 isnt? thats fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.3459792]

>>3459783
Gen 6 won't be allowed here until at the very least the beginning of Gen 9

[Anonymous No.3459804]

>>3459783
to be honest family member, I think if a vidya is 10+ years old, it belongs here

mods=fags

[Anonymous No.3459805]

>>3459783
The Dreamcast was also the last console on which arcade ports mattered.

[Anonymous No.3460023]

>>3452263
Did somebody say "Underwater level?"

[Anonymous No.3460242]

>>3460023
Am I supposed to know what that is?

[Anonymous No.3460292]

>>3452375
look I know you have autism but why not just play powerslave ex?

[Anonymous No.3460341]

>>3459775
You are mistaken, this board is for discussion of video games, if you want to shitpost there's already a board for that >>>/v/

[Anonymous No.3460342]

>>3460242
>he hasn't played file.png
What the fuck are you doing? Go play it NOW.

[Anonymous No.3460348]

>>3456186

Sounded sarcastic to me, mocking OP like if he posted E.T. and was like WORST GAEM EVUR!

[Anonymous No.3460363]

>>3459345
That underwater level in Mario 64 was also GOAT.

[Anonymous No.3460364]

>>3454036
Amen Anon, amen.

[Anonymous No.3460367]

>>3460242
Aquanox, a submarine action game that was often used as a benchmark in the early 2000's since its graphics were much more scaleable than any other games at the time.

Entire game is set underwater.

Also it is a direct sequel to Archimedean Dynasty.

[Anonymous No.3460405]

>>3459792
and all because of halo

[Anonymous No.3461624]

>>3460342
No thanks I've got Psychonauts, American McGees Alice and Theif in my backlog.

>>3460367
Huh. Sounds interesting. Why have I only just heard of it? Why has nobody in my usual channels mentioned it?

[Anonymous No.3462179]

>>3452263
breath mechanics is the main thing i hate from water levels
also the usually darker ambience

[Anonymous No.3462195]

[Anonymous No.3463942]

This water level was sexy.

[Anonymous No.3463985]

>>3452263
The water level of this game is not that difficult!

[Anonymous No.3464094]

>>3463985
It is when you're 6.

[Anonymous No.3464097]

>>3464094
I beat it as a kid. Sorry about your retardation.

[Anonymous No.3464104]

>>3464097
Who says I didn't beat the game also? Just saying I didn't find it easy

>Doesn't into basic english
>Calls me a retard

Kek.

[Anonymous No.3465361]

>>3464104
But it wasnt even hard.

Its the easiest level in tmnt.
You literally have to try to fail at it.

[Anonymous No.3465393]

>>3465361
Mechanically it's a piece of piss. But when I played it, at the age of 6 when it first came out, I had never experienced anything like it. My stress levels were through the roof. The difficulty was navigating the level with the heightened sense of stress and danger.

The game afterwards was relatively easy, sure.

[Anonymous No.3465506]

>>3459804

MUH CHILDHOOD NOSTALGIA does not equal retro.

>You guyz remember Gears of War? That shit is like ANCIENT, bros!

[Anonymous No.3467927]

Recently played through Skyblazer. And what do you know? The game has a fucking water temple. With switches that change the waterflow and a maze-like design. Only level I got lost and stuck. It wasnt that bad, but for like a good half an hour I didnt know what I was doing.

The level boss also took me the most tries from all bosses in the game. Which is good, because most werent much of a challenge, but I still believe without the right spell, you are fucked.

[Anonymous No.3468087]

>>3465361

I could never beat it although I only tried it 2-3 times. One time I failed the level, last bomb, was like 2 meters away and ran out of time. Ragequit and never played again.

However, watcing videos of the level today I agree it doesnt look that hard.I was probably 7 when I played it last, and a lot of us played this game when we were real young and just sucked at games.

[Anonymous No.3468165]

>>3459294
i always wonder what those things in the background were

[Anonymous No.3468169]

dire dire docks
foggy the first time you play it then not every other time

[NESfag No.3468187]

>>3460292
Oh boy, you have no idea who you asked that question too. In terms of Powerslave/Exhumed autism, you can't find worse than me.

I recently did a speedrun of the Saturn version. I used bomb jumping to its best of its potential and even found other unknown tricks.

https://youtu.be/7nfxUZqHWcw

Saturn version is the best version of the game (not counting the Build version which is in another category for being a completely different game). Slavedriver was made as a Saturn engine, and Powerslave was made as Saturn game. It's its true form.

Then you have the PS1 version, which is a port programmed by another person, which is worse in many many ways, and with many differences, but which is still a good game, despite being inferior.

Then you have EX. Which is a port of a the PS1 version, in other words a port of a port.
And which is also beta. ALL the gameplay behaviours, from player movement, to enemy's AI, to the way weapons act, etc etc, everything is either completely off or outright broken.

People who play EX either have no idea what they're missing on or have no standard at all.

[Anonymous No.3468197]

>>3452263
Loved the atmosphere on pic related.

[Anonymous No.3468201]

>>3468197
Forgot pic.