/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3448484]

>"Super Mario World is too easy. You can just fly over everything."
Who's forcing you to fly over everything?

[Anonymous No.3448507]

No one. They just use that as an argument against the game. If they want a challenge, they can simply not use the cape.

[Anonymous No.3448514]

>>3448507
But the point is you can get through most of it very easily

[Anonymous No.3448515]

Me motherfucker.

[Anonymous No.3448523]

>>3448514
That's like complaining that a car gets you to your destination too fast. One can walk if they want to, but the fact the car exists is enough of a sin.

[Anonymous No.3448526]

>>3448523
Oh you don't get analogies. How sad.

[Anonymous No.3448537]

>>3448507
Avoiding the cape doesn't magically make the cape not broken as fuck.

Just like how avoiding using Yoshi doesn't magically make Yoshi something that completely defeats the point of Mario's platforming mechanics.

[Anonymous No.3448575]

>>3448537
>Avoiding the cape doesn't magically make the cape not broken as fuck.
No one said that.

>broken
It works though.

[Anonymous No.3448598]

it's been years since I played that but I don't really remember being able to fly over everything

[Anonymous No.3448621]

>>3448575
The cape completely trivializes platforming. The raccoon tail in SMB3 was balanced by only allowing temporary flight and the level design in SMB3 usually provided things in the air for you to see and explore.

SMW's cape allows for endless flight with impunity and SMW's level design usually has completely barren skies. It's effectively a broken P-Wing, since the P-Wing was balanced out by it turning into a regular raccoon tail at the end of a level and couldn't be recovered if you got hit.

[Anonymous No.3448626]

the game is too easy even if you stick to small mario and avoid doing spin jumps

[Anonymous No.3448637]

Wow, it's like the game was made to cater to 4-year olds or something

[Anonymous No.3448646]

>>3448621
/thread

[Anonymous No.3448649]

>>3448621
Exactly. There was SMB3, an outstanding game, and then SMW.... what the fucking shit?! It's a good game, but definitely not a great game. How many of the levels don't even have anything in them, are just complete filler?!

[Anonymous No.3448672]

I dont hate SMW, but i think that game was the point when Mario became the entry level game of 2D platformers. Game is too easy. But i cant blame Nintendo because even Miyamoto said the game was rushed to compete with the Genesis.

[Anonymous No.3448773]

People are going to take the path of least resistance when playing any video game. Nothing you say will change that.

[Anonymous No.3449313]

Stop being tryhard, guys. SMW is pretty awesome.

SMB3 is equally great.

[Anonymous No.3449327]

>>3448773
This.

[Anonymous No.3449331]

>>3448773
Bingo.

[Anonymous No.3449350]

>>3448637
This
Now are we gonna bitch becuz kirby and sonic are too ez

[Anonymous No.3449356]

>>3449350
>sonic
>ez

maybe for you.
metropolis zone and end bosses of sonic 2 always fucked my shit up made me lose all continues

[Anonymous No.3449386]

>>3449313

SMW is an awesome game but it is easy as fuck, even without the cape or Yoshi. A game can be easy and still pretty good, SotN comes to mind. In SMB3 you have also a flying item but it's not a breeze to go through levels like that, the challenge is way bigger than smw. And also as you can stock powerups the enemies and bosses aren't a matter of life and death like the other titles. Hell, with the spinning jump you can avoid even the jumping lava balls that would insta kill you in other titles

[Anonymous No.3450107]

>>3449386
>the star world level with the balloons
>easy
>the ghost house key where you have to fly scrunched into your hat
>easy
ok genius expert mario player.

[Anonymous No.3450123]

>>3450107
There's a couple kinda tough levels

Also you don't have to fly crouched. You make the coins make a path and then run and duck to get that key.

[Anonymous No.3450127]

Eh, smw was more a game about exploration and finding all the secret exits/levels rather than just running through each one. Cape feather helped you find some cool secrets in the sky but of course it won't help you with the ground ones. Dunno about u guys but I played smw to get dat 100 personally.

[Anonymous No.3450209]

Literally try it. Someone get the Cape and start flight at the beginning of every level and see if you can just fly through it. Resume flight ASAP after entering a pipe.

The other night I tried the "hold right to win" meme in Sonic 2. You can clear the first two levels of it sans the Robotnik fight by simple holding right and jumping ONLY when Sonic comes into contact with movement hindering obstacle. Once cleared immediately go back to holding right. Beyond the first two levels it will fall apart.

[Anonymous No.3450348]

>>3448773
>People are going to take the path of least resistance when playing any video game. Nothing you say will change that.
Because you'd be stupid not to. The whole time while you impose limitations on yourself you're thinking "I could be doing this a better way."

>>3450107
>Tubular
>The one level in the game that doesn't allow you to cheese it with Yoshi or the Cape manages to be challenging
Good.

Also, you don't even need the cape for that ghost house since you can just a build a path with coins and hit a P-switch.

[Anonymous No.3450395]

I don't get why the cape shit is brought up every single fucking time. The fun part was finding the secret exits anyway.

[Anonymous No.3450414]

>>3450209
I should do the mash a thing for a Final Fantasy and see where that gets me

[Anonymous No.3450429]

>"JRPGs are too easy. You can just grind until you can beat everything."
Who's forcing you to grind?

>>3450414
I did an Attack Only run for FFIV. Got to the Moon and got bored. I beat Rubicante this way so I guess the rest is possible.

[Anonymous No.3450432]

>>3450348
>Because you'd be stupid not to. The whole time while you impose limitations on yourself you're thinking "I could be doing this a better way."

Let's not exaggerate. Nobody's going to hang around farming lives because it will save them having to replay levels at some point in the future. Most of the time yes. And there's a feeling of hypocrisy if you're not trying everything you can to win.

[Anonymous No.3450449]

>>3450429
>>"

[Anonymous No.3450456]

>>3448484
A game is in a way a challenge to the player, a gauntlet thrown by the devs.
Sure I could limit myself not to do something, damn I could even play it in boxing gloves, at some point I would probably limit myself so hard I wouldnt be able to finish the game simply because I wouldnt know when to stop.

Sure if I make the game too hard on myself I could remove some limits however, applying and removing artificial limitations on myself does not make game better designed or harder or easier, in fact, if the game is so easy I can beat it with my front teeth then its mean difficulty level or level design completely screwed and devs just fucked up.
It doesnt magically makes the game any better since it doesnt provide any challenge and I am the one who challenge myself.

[Anonymous No.3450459]

>>3448507
>If they want a challenge, they can simply not use the cape.

If you are, at any time, not maximizing the use of all available tools to achieve the best potential results, then you are objectively playing the game poorly. And if a game does allow for broken shit, then it is balanced wrong. There is no two ways around it. They removed Guile Handcuffs from SF2 as well, but according to your argument they could've just left it there and tell gamers to just not use it if they want to play better.

[Anonymous No.3450469]

>>3448537
>Yoshi something that completely defeats the point of Mario's platforming mechanics.

For what its worth it gave you a new mechanic of "animal cruelty double jump".

... the coloured shell/coloured Yoshi specials were broken, though.

[Anonymous No.3450479]

>>3450209
>Someone get the Cape and start flight at the beginning of every level and see if you can just fly through it. Resume flight ASAP after entering a pipe.

I remember getting through the entire game like that, with the exception of Vanilla Dome, all the castles and water levels, and the two or three auto scrolling levels. I usually didn't try doing it for every level though, partially because I didn't want to cycle back to Top Secret Area any time I accidentally got hit or fell into a pit, and partially because some levels were more fun otherwise (like the forest of illusion level where you can abuse invincibility on Wigglers to get like 30 lives in one level). Oh, and because I always go for the alternate exits.

[Anonymous No.3450484]

>>3450469

Everyone who sacrificed Yoshi to get to Soda Lake leave this thread right now.

[Anonymous No.3450543]

>>3448484
most people didn't finish super mario 3 thats why they made it easier

[Anonymous No.3450562]

What's your opinion on SMW? I never had much discussion about it with anyone, everyone kinda assumes this as undisputed classic. But I never really liked spin jump, cap and the levels that much

[Anonymous No.3450571]

>>3450562
it's one of my all time favourites. one of the main games I remember from my early childhood. it was magic, still is actually. to me it's a timeless game.

[Anonymous No.3450596]

>>3450571
To me it was also kinda magical. I love the graphics, perhaps the best style I've seen in any game, it's nearly iconic.

But otherwise… You know, I felt you needed to play it REALLY carefully. There was just too much shit ready to kill you at any given opportunity, which you could barely even attack properly. You rarely even get goombas walking at you, it's always something trickier. And also, I didn't really like cape and spin jump all that much.

[Anonymous No.3450664]

>>3450562
I remember forest of illusion and chocolate island being really underwhelming. Seemed like they were too much of the same from earlier levels.

But I did love the rest of the game, this thread got me interested in replaying it. I never really thought about the difficulty before. But I remember liking SMW more than SMB3 pretty much because it was easier.

SMB3 without warp flutes is just... especially on the nes without saves.

[Anonymous No.3450673]

>>3449356
>metropolis zone and end bosses of sonic 2 always fucked my shit up made me lose all continues

A childishly easy game followed by late sections of artificial challenge to give the impression that you've been playing a hard game since the beginning.

[Anonymous No.3450746]

>>3450673
Sonic 2 has fairly good difficulty curve actually. Mystic Cave and Oil Ocean were much harder, and Metropolis was just as difficult.

The only level that fucks up the difficult curve is the flood part in Chemical Plant 2. That was completely out of place.

[Anonymous No.3450795]

>>3450596
you sound bad. I hate when people on this board think that their lack of skill equates to bad game design. you could attack everything in this game just fine. Holy shit I 100%'d it when I was like 8 ffs.

[Anonymous No.3450819]

>>3450795
> you could attack everything in this game just fine.
I didn't mean my comment to be negative. It's just that people mostly talk about other games comparing them to Mario, but rarely otherwise.

They rarely even mention just how easy it is to die in SMB/SMW compared to other games. It's very much like early arcade games: 1 touch=death or loss of upgrades.

SMW is also a game with very little offense. Fire Flower doesn't even hit half the enemies in the game. There are parts like haunted houses where you can't even kill most of the enemies. Often you're put at serious disadvantage, like in underwater levels, where you can't even touch anyone unless you have an upgrade.

It's not bad or good—it's just not my cup of tea.

[Anonymous No.3451531]

>>3450395
Because it's a core feature of the game and is heavily billed as one of the core features of the game.

I will admit that you can do some pretty cool stuff with the cape, but it's still retardedly broken as a power-up.

[Anonymous No.3451543]

>>3450107

Tubular took me lots of tries with the baloon, but that Ghost House is far from being hard, most of Air Fortress stages on SMB3 are way harder than it. If you want I can even record for you when I return to my house :^)

[Anonymous No.3451640]

>>3450429
How the fuck did you do it without healing?

[Anonymous No.3451652]

I did this with a play sega usb and a faulty sega saturn controller. I did not work right at all. Waste of time and money

[Anonymous No.3453114]

>>3450123
>>3450348
>>3451543
ok. tell me how you can control the path of the coins. i've 100%'d the game many times, but always have to use the scrunch method with that key.

[Anonymous No.3453170]

>>3450456
How do you play Mario with boxing gloves?

Also can you remove your mask?

If you hate Sanic so much why dont u just kill him?

[Anonymous No.3453172]

>>3453114
When they're coming out, you control them with the d pad

[Anonymous No.3453331]

>>3448484
I'm a failure at this game. I'm trying to fly over the goal post to get the level with the Torpedo Teds and I can't fucking do it. I could do it fine when I was a kid but I can't at all now.

[Anonymous No.3453340]

castlevania isn't hard because you can just spam holy water!

who's forcing you to use holy water!

so if it drops from a candle should i just use whip only?

any game can be hard when you set arbitrary limitations.

[Anonymous No.3453349]

>>3449313
>having a discussion about the design of two of the most popular retro games of all time on the retro games discussion board is being tryhard
Why are you even here

[Anonymous No.3453353]

You're correct, no one's forced to use the cape, but the statement about the game being too easy is strill true.
You didn't refute that point, you simply said "if you purposely handicap yourself then it won't be that easy". Whoop dee doo.

That being said, i wanted to play SMW some time ago with a friend, but since i knew he would just pick the cape & blue yoshi and roll through the game, i suggested that we played without using power ups or the blue yoshi, but he said the game isn't fun if you don't fly, and that's when i gave up on the idea of playing it with him entirely.

[Anonymous No.3454010]

>>3453353
I like you. The world needs less casual scrubs.

[Anonymous No.3454023]

>>3453353
>i suggested that we played without using power ups or the blue yoshi, but he said the game isn't fun if you don't fly, and that's when i gave up on the idea of playing it with him entirely.

You're a retard, let him play however he wants, if you're playing 2 players, you can play however you want, it's not a co-op game.
You seriously resign from playing a game with someone because they're "casuals"?

Playing a small mario run is also fun in SMW, small mario is pretty damn flexible, can fit in small places and do fancier trickery with more ease than big mario. But I won't force my friends to play the game the way I do. Most of my friends suck at Mario anyway, they lose in 1-3 of SMB1.

[Anonymous No.3454246]

>>3454023
>let him play however he wants
I didn't forbid him to do that, did i?

He can player however he wants with other people or by himself, i suggested that we played without power ups, he didn't agree to and that's okay, it's his right, i also didn't agree to play with him, it goes both ways. I'm not stopping him from booting up the game and playing by himself the way he wants or finding someone else to play with him, am i?

>you're a retard
Not a coincidence that the people who start their comments with gratuitous insults are dumbfucks with the reading comprehension of a 10 year old.

[Anonymous No.3456281]

Keeping in mind that even the worst main Mario platformers are still among the best platformers ever made I do feel SMW's moment to moment game play is weaker then most of the others, with among the 2d Mario's only SMB2 USA, and the two gameboy Land games being weaker. Still a great game that is clearly focusing more on the finding secret exits element then the rest of it's gameplay.

To get a bit more specific:

Crowding enemy elements. There are times in SMW when the screen is filled with many enemies that are all influencing the player in about the same way thus overcrowding each other in function. The high volume of enemies doesn't necessarily make the game more interesting or challenging. In these cases, it makes the game more cluttered.

The game ideas in SMW are significantly less varied compared to SMB3 or the NSMB games.

Outside of the bonus rooms and special areas, coins are a bit of a rarity in SMW. Instead of encouraging new JUMP patterns, setting up more difficult platforming challenging, or adding that extra layer to influence player decisions, coins are commonly used as P-Switch walkways and to point the player in the right direction it seems like the developers focused on implementing dragon coins. Collect just 5 of these coins in a single level and you'll earn a 1up.

The dragon coin design inherently takes away from the suspension in the game. Instead of gradually collecting coins to reach 100, if you get 4/5 dragon coins on every level you play you'll never earn a 1up. For this reason, the actions of collection dragon coins can fail to amount up to a meaningful reaction. Also dragon coins are not in every level. What little positive and interesting influences they have on gameplay can'toccurwhere there are no dragon coins.

The cape's main over powered element is there's no risky element to upward flight like Raccoon or Propeller Mario, when hit Cape Mario is temporarily invulnerable you're out of your flight but you don't lose your Cape

[Anonymous No.3456957]

I mean it's not as if they didn't know that the game was overall easier:

>Miyamoto: SMB3 was made for experienced players who had delved deep into the previous Mario games. In contrast, we aimed to make SMW friendly to beginners as well, but still exciting for those who played SMB3.

>Miyamoto: One of the issues with action games is how to make something that can be enjoyed by all skill levels, from beginners to more advanced players. One way is to add an “Easy Mode”, but I think the best method is when the player can adjust the difficulty himself while playing. The dotted-line blocks fill that role in Super Mario World.

>For awhile now, I’ve been wanting to make a game that isn’t simply about reaching the end of the level—a game where even after you beat the level, you still want to come back again and explore and experience more of. For that, making the levels easier is a pre-requisite.

http://shmuplations.com/supermarioworld/

Trying to speed run, not suing certian power ups, attemping to get dragon coins that are in harder to reach places or even tryng to get through the levels without touching anything in any way are all parts of the "player can adjust the difficulty himself while playing." approch.

[Anonymous No.3456970]

having to create a challenge yourself is the definition of artificial difficulty. it's a poor mechanic but you shouldn't let that it bother you what other people say. SMW is still a 10/10.

funny how you are so triggered by it you posted one of the very few levels you can't fly through. like I said it's still a great game. I just hate it when people say no one if forcing you to use mechanics in the game to beat it. poor argument when you a trying to defend how easy or not the game is.

[Anonymous No.3456978]

>>3454023
why not just play 2 player and play your levels that way and let him play his levels the way he wants? he wasn't the one refusing to play with you if you didn't use power ups. it's just a fucking game and sounds like both of you have beaten it already. just try to have a good time playing a game with a friend. you sound like a insufferable cunt who can't have fun unless you get your way.

the game is still piss easy without the cape and blue yoshi

[Anonymous No.3457004]

in the original SMB game why did they bother making levels 1-3 1-4 and worlds 2 and 3?

you can just skip them from level 1-2

why wouldn't you skip them? do you want to make the game more difficult for yourself?

warping is a broken mechanic. everybody is going to skip those levels

[Anonymous No.3457092]

>>3457004
I partially agree with that, but you are still a retarded fucking faggot to think this is a worthy analogy.
Warp zones were secret made to substitute the save system and give a way for expirienced players a way to quickly move to later lavels. It is actually not any different from a level select/ world map, and it's n fact less casual since you need to find those secrets.
It doesn't change the difficulty of the levels you decide to engage with, or even the ones you decide to skip.
Consider drinking bleach and diying so your parents can be finally be proud.

[Anonymous No.3457142]

tfw you realize super mario is actually an amazingly consistent game series

[Anonymous No.3457608]

>>3457142
I kind of hopes that goes without saying.

[Anonymous No.3457921]

>>3457142
Name one popular one that isn't?

Inb4 contrarians claims a popular series isn't consistently quality simply because they don't prefer a particular entry. The only exception to this rule is obviously Sonic '06, but that game is an anomaly for a multiple of reasons (it had potential, it was rushed, was never originally intended to be a Sonc game etc).

[Anonymous No.3457929]

I don't really get this complaint. Raccoon Mario wasn't much better. The stages in SMB3 are pretty short and, as I remember, you can actually get damn close to clearing an entire level in a single bound with a leaf. The last time I played SMB3 I tried to clear every stage in one playthrough and, after awhile, I was so bored I just flew over stages. By the time I got to world 5 I was just fucking sick of playing it entirely.

The difference between 3 and World is that SMW is so fucking easy skipping stages is missing the point. I mean, you can skip almost the entire game using Star Road.

[Anonymous No.3457961]

>>3457929

SMB3 vs World is a meme. Just anons wanting to discuss Mario so they come up with an "argument" to fuel these threads going. Mario has been discussed to death already.

Most people will agree that both SMB3 and World are pretty on par, even though some prefer one or the other.
Also this: >>3457142

Those who do it unironically, well, I guess they're teenagers from /v/ trying too hard to act up their "hardcore gamer" online persona.

[Anonymous No.3458237]

>>3453331
Fly under

[Anonymous No.3458340]

>>3457921
Oh there are lots but I will be called a contrarian faggot and am too tired to explain so I'll post one:

Kirby

[Anonymous No.3458346]

>>3448484
>game is too easy
>whos forcing you to not get hit?

[Anonymous No.3458415]

>>3457961

I can't get over left Mario's prominent bulge in this image.

[Anonymous No.3458439]

>>3448484

> Flying.
> Not because cape whips make you practically invincible.

[Anonymous No.3458450]

SMW has all the ingredients but was obviously rushed. Things like there being enemy sprites being used only once throughout the game are a dead giveaway and it happens repeatedly in World. It's like Miyamoto planned a game twice the size of what we ended up getting.

[Anonymous No.3458762]

>>3448507
It's a very good argument against the game.

>>3448523
You're being retarded.

[Anonymous No.3458773]

>>3458762
>It's a very good argument against the game.

It's a kind of nitpicky, tryhard argument.
The cape is a great power-up, fun to use.
You think it "breaks" the game, well excuse me mr. hardcore gamer.

[Anonymous No.3459379]

>>3458340
... Okay, how is the quality inconsistent? Yours not going to argue about the Dreamworld/Adventure style game differences, or the spinoff a they shoved Kirby in simply or star power are you?

[Anonymous No.3460940]

>>3458773
This is the SMW fanbase.

[Anonymous No.3460994]

>>3458773
>It's a kind of nitpicky, tryhard argument.
The cape and flight are core features of the game. It's totally justified to criticize the game because of them.

[Anonymous No.3461338]

>>3460994

But they don't break the game. The argument is tryhard, not objective.

>>3460940
I like 3 better.

[Anonymous No.3461359]

>>3458773
>The cape is a great power-up, fun to use.
>its fun to fly the entire stage without any effort

Why are you even playing games? Go watch longplays

[Anonymous No.3461370]

>>3461359

The cape does more than just allowing you to fly, which by the way doesn't mean you need to fly through the entire stage, a lot of levels don't even allow that, see OP.

Seriously you guys are no fun allowed as fuck. Why even play platformer games? Go play Dorf Fort or something.

[Anonymous No.3462027]

You know one issue I have with this whole cape thing is people are assuming when you first played the game you could pull off using the cape as well as you can now. I don't know about everyone else in this thread but when I was kid, I was terrible with sustaining flight and it lead to a lot of deaths. Just because now I've got the hang of it and can use it to blast through stages that have a long enough section of ground to run across doesn't mean it broke the game, it's just a reward for sticking with it long enough to master it.

[Anonymous No.3464886]

>>3448484
it is VERY easy.