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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 1.11 MB, 2757x925, ps1 vs n64.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3421684 No.3421684 [Reply] [Original]

So this... is the power of the Playstation.

>> No.3421702

Look guys! He posted it again!

>> No.3421706
File: 57 KB, 597x313, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3421706

>Tenchu
>N64

>> No.3421731

>mfw people will fall for what's actually an altered GTE hack comparison image for an emulator and erupt yet another console war

only on /vr/

>> No.3421740
File: 283 KB, 1158x892, shatterhand.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3421740

>> No.3421757

>>3421731
Nah, we've had this thread before. /v/ on the other hand...

>> No.3421768

>>3421684
When your "3D" console can't even draw straight lines then you have a pretty flawed 3d console.

The only reason some playstation games approach N64 standard graphics is because the budget was much bigger due to the playstations runaway popularity.

>> No.3421782

>>3421768

Also, PS1 CDs held more data than N64 carts. FMV and audio quality were a big deal in the mid to late 90's.

>> No.3421784

>>3421740
Gold

>> No.3421830
File: 37 KB, 1000x352, Perspective_correct_texture_mapping.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3421830

>>3421684
Most, if not all, PSX games use affine texture mapping as it was too computationally intensive to do perspective mapping in realtime for the GTE.

The Playstation hardware is really early 90s tech, it wasn't until 1995/96+ that coordinate interpolation algorithms for perspective corrected texture mapping implemented in the consumer 3D graphics hardware was commonplace.

I would imagine that developers were annoyed by this problem at the time, too, but figured CRT scanline flickering would obscure all of the fucked up angles so players wouldn't really notice.

>> No.3421838

>>3421782
I remember on forums during 5th gen people would use this as a selling point. "Oh the ps1 is the best because the audio can be more than just samples, fmvs and more data to store."

While that argument is true that didn't ultimately make for better games

>> No.3421842

>>3421838

Pretty much. At least until guys like Kojima and Square made FMVs the ultimate selling points instead of the actual games.

>> No.3421865

>>3421842

Metal Gear Solid includes very little "FMV". It uses in-game graphcis for most cut scenes, save for a few real world clips.

>> No.3421883

>>3421842
>MGS uses 95% real time cutscenes
???

>> No.3421919

>>3421684
>2757x925
Da fug is this shit?
PSX couldn't output more than 320x240

>> No.3421950

>>3421830
>Most, if not all, PSX games use affine texture mapping

Every PSX game that takes advantage of the texture mapping hardware uses it. It literally doesn't support anything else.

There was word that supposedly Duke Nukem 3D on PS1 did texture mapping on the CPU since it was a direct port of the PC version. If that's the case, it would do genuine perspective-correct textures. Of course, it also supposedly runs really poorly.

>> No.3421951

>>3421919
Get back into your time machine, the future is not for you.

>> No.3421963
File: 166 KB, 1024x768, 1464206534301.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3421963

>>3421919
Here are the resolution modes supported by Playstation hardware and utilized by its games.

Width
>256 (SoTN)
>320 (default)
>368 (Tekken 3)
>512 (hi-horizontal res games, Crash, Wipeout 3, Quake 2, Tobal, ...)
>640 (full frame hi-res games, Internal Section, some menus)

Height
>240 (default)
>256 (PAL region)
>480i (hi-vertical res games, Tekken 3, Tobal, ...)
>512 (PAL region)

Perhaps you got your laugh but there's probably someone lurking who didn't know.

>> No.3421968

>>3421963
>Internal Section
That's why that fucker looks so good, I knew it wasn't just the simplistic graphics, it does have higher res than most games.

>> No.3421973

>>3421684

> N64
> Unfiltered textures

Nice try, faggot.

>> No.3421992

>>3421757
Lol. Vr is literally the easiest board to troll ever. You stupid autistic mouthbreather.

>> No.3421994

>>3421684
Nice bait. But let's be realistic, how noticeable was the PS1's texture warping on real hardware?

>> No.3422004

>>3421963
Of course that's the output resolution. It doesn't say much about the internal resolution. Crash for example was letterboxed along height so it was less than 240.

>> No.3422020
File: 1.88 MB, 480x360, reaver.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3422020

>>3421994
>let's be realistic, how noticeable was the PS1's texture warping on real hardware?

It was always there and pervasive, even in the higher quality games that did tricks to reduce it. Of course if you get immersed enough in anything, you don't tend to nick pick about graphical flaws.

>> No.3422030

>>3422004
It's true there's always some 12px or whatever rows of pixels that were just black overscan so the numbers aren't always exactly 240 or 480, but it's not significant enough to say their resolutions were a lie. On real hardware, it just looks like TV overscan.

>> No.3422031

>>3422020
Where's warping here? I only see enormous fogh.

>> No.3422036

>>3422031
Look at the ENTIRE ground

>> No.3422056

>>3422036
I'm blind or I don't understand what the warping is.

>> No.3422060

>>3422056
near the end, when the camera goes to a low angle, there's brief warping in the foreground. It's pretty well hidden otherwise

>> No.3422067
File: 22 KB, 444x322, eddy1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3422067

>caring about graphics
JUST PLAY FUCKING VIDEO GAMES!

>> No.3422070

Ps1 was weak. But the most powerful system don't always win the gen. Look at the wii.

>> No.3422073

>>3422067
they kind of rely on graphics, hence the name

>> No.3422079

>>3421684
They made a Tenchu N64 game?

>> No.3422102

>>3422079

Tenchu 64 was a port of the original.

>> No.3422186

>>3421830
>but figured CRT scanline flickering

That requires 480i resolution, the majority of PS1 games run at 240p.
A good way to solve the affine texture mapping problem is to go nuts with triangles. It's not really that expensive if you cache textures.

>> No.3422205

>>3421830
>figured
they had no say in this matter, simple as that. No laziness, no ill intentions. The hardware has this property, so they'll work with it. That's all there is to it

>> No.3422485

>>3422020
>nick pick

It's nit pick you fucking nigger.

>> No.3422726

>>3421838
>While that argument is true that didn't ultimately make for better games

but then the games ended up being better regardless

>> No.3422974

>>3422056
It's definitely visible on the ground. Here's the thing: if you can see it on a tiny webm you can sure as hell see it on your TV.

>> No.3422991

>>3422974
that "tiny" webm is close to native resolution

>> No.3422994

>>3422991
Doesn't matter, it's still easier to see shit when it's scaled up.

>> No.3423038

Yeah, that was the power of having a better library, 3:1 sales and an actual working controller you faggot

>> No.3423042

>>3421838
It didn't make the games better, but they were better by default because they weren't developed for the n64

>> No.3423048

>>3422056
Texture warping is a lot more obvious in corridors, and is especially obvious in first person. Play King's Field to see some major texture warping.

I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal, in most cases its barely noticeable. The N64 is clearly better at 3D, but despite the PS1's issues rendering 3D content I love it for its amazing library.

>> No.3423198

>>3423038
>>3423042

basically "my family was poor and I only had a ps1 growing up"


Saturn>N64>PlayShitstation

>> No.3423283

>>3423198
I had all three growing up, and a pc. Ps1>Saturn>rolling in dog shit>n64

>> No.3423286

>>3423283

Sure you did.

>> No.3423298

I could never get over just how trash the PS1 games looked, it looked line trash when I was a kid, it looks like trash now.

You can love your poorfag edgy console as much as you want PStards, but that doesn't mean N64 is inferior.

>> No.3423317

Texture warping honestly doesn't bother me as much as the jittery animations caused by fixed-point calculation.

>> No.3423342

>>3423198
Cousins my man, I probably played a neo geo pocket before you even saw an ad for one.

>> No.3423345

>>3423298
N64 isn't necessarily inferior, but it's game library is.

>> No.3423350

>>3423342

I was probably playing video games before you existed.

Anyway, this thread is stupid, OP's pic is blatant bait.

>> No.3423441

>>3423345
And by some miracle PSX had some decent games despite of some shitty ass hardware.

>> No.3423450

>>3423317
Incidently both the N64 and GameCube use fixed point calculations almost exclusively. The reason they don't jitter is because they use two sets of fixed point numbers, the second represents the 'in between' value.

>> No.3423757

>>3423441
People loved the cd room aspect and sony bigger name.

People who never even played video games or nintendo or sega haters played that machine.

>> No.3423836

>>3423317
>>3423450
know the difference between floating point, fixed point and integer?

>> No.3423838
File: 147 KB, 592x937, Kamiya_consolewar.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3423838

>>3423757
>nintendo or sega haters

>> No.3423841

>>3423838
Nice.

>> No.3423975

>>3423836
Yes, you don't need to be a patronizing fuck. The way the N64 does it doesn't just use higher precision fixed point, it literally uses a second set of values to define in between precision. Or something. Probably so it doesn't have to be high precision all the time, just where needed. Just going off memory here.

>> No.3423984

>>3423975
>Yes
then why confuse what the PS does with what the N64 does?

>> No.3423987

>>3421842
>until guys like Kojima

Underage kids these days.

>> No.3423993

>>3423984
Because the N64 doesn't do it any differently than the PS1 except with the addition of some kind of subpixel modifier to prevent the jitter.

The N64 does not do floating point for transforms. The N64's RSP core does not support floating point numbers. Yes, the N64 can in theory do floating point unlike the PS1 because its CPU has a floating point unit while the PS1's CPU does not. However, the N64's CPU floating point is not very fast. It's there, so it can useful things, but you don't want to pump things like transforms through it.

>> No.3423997

>>3423993
let me repeat >>3423836 at this point. You're mixing things so wildly, it's making me dizzy

>> No.3424000

>>3423997
If you want to be smug, why don't you provide some contrasting definitions instead of being an armchair critic.

>> No.3424448
File: 521 KB, 1920x1080, 1080bait.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3424448

>>3421684
Left is real Playstation, right is ePSXe with GTE.

Every thread, I laught my ass off at the stupidity of /vr/ weeboos.

>> No.3424714

contrarian kids and nintendrones still butthurt 20 years later.

>> No.3424734

>>3424448
>right is ePSXe with GTE.

epxe can't do that. And it's not just GTE. It's PGXP, a fork oc PCSX-R, with GTE and something called Texture Perspective Correction (TPC). TPC is a relatively new break through in Playstation emulation.

GTE just reduces the jittering. TPC stops the texture warping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grm_V6VNbyk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G97SxZ88wg

>> No.3424754

>>3421740
kek i lost it. Vr in a nutshell.

>> No.3425395
File: 53 KB, 495x409, ▄█▀ █▬█ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▀█▀.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3425395

>>3424714
Ain't even mad bucko.

>> No.3425405

>>3421963
P sure sotn is 320x240

>> No.3425424

>>3425405
The drama with SoTN resolution is actually quite easy to remember. The proper version on Playstation is 256x240, specifically the same resolution as SNES. It is the Saturn version of SoTN that was known for its fucked up aspect ratio where they took sprite art made for 256x240 and stretched it to 320x240 because Saturn doesn't support 256x*.

A simple Google search confirms that my memory hasn't failed me.

http://blog.hardcoregaming101.net/2012/03/explaining-resolution-intro-of.html

I forgot to list in my list that another example of 256x240 on Playstation is Ghost In The Shell.

>> No.3425540

>>3425424

Do you think it was maybe to give it a stronger connection to the rest of the series? Maybe it reused the engine from Rondo of Blood? what resolution did Rondo of Blood run at?

I'd love a chance to ask Iga this question

>> No.3425959

>>3425424
>specifically the same resolution as SNES.

Also PC-Engine. Believed that they used it so they could re-use PCE sprites without stretching them.

>> No.3426028

>>3421706
I wonder if there's beer on the sun...

>> No.3426476

>>3425540
Basically >>3425959, the engine.

>> No.3426505

>>3421684
GOD DAMN THATS WHY I HATE PS1
they remove the fucking lamps...

>> No.3426552

>>3421684
The N64 has corrupt graphics, look at the health bar.

>> No.3426610

>>3426505
>>3426552
They're the same game, but with different emulator plugins.

>> No.3426637

This is why the best games on the PS1 are fully 2D or use minimal 3D.
Classics that have aged perfectly: Castlevania SoTN, Klonoa, Rayman, Tomba, Tactics Ogre
Aged like shit: Almost every 3D PS1 game

>> No.3426661 [DELETED] 

>>3426637
As long as we assume "almost every" is a pretty decently sized window, then sure.

>> No.3426665

>>3426637
As long as we assume the window for actually aged well 3D games is decently sized, then sure.

>> No.3428015

PS1 is infinitely better than N64

>> No.3428385

>>3428015
I don't disagree but be aware about that OP'd post is bait anyways. Here's the original image
>>3427410

>>3426637
>Aged like shit: Almost every 3D 5th gen game
FTFY. And honestly I think the average 3D PS1 game has still aged much better than the average N64 game with the shit filtering the latter has going for it. The only thing it has going against it is the lack of a proper romhacking community for certain games, but with its homebrew community being as strong as it is really doesn't matter much.

>> No.3428625

>>3428385
You can disable the filtering with gameshark or just emulate.

>> No.3428629

>>3421740
>that RF on the right
kek, never again as long as I live

>> No.3429034

>>3421740
How to achieve comfy right aesthetic?

>> No.3429093

>>3422020

"Nick pick"?

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously

>> No.3429098

>>3428015

It has a larger library, but everything else is debatable. Hardware-wise it wasn't better except for Full Motion Video capabilities, which was the real strong point of the PlayStation.

>> No.3429108
File: 58 KB, 800x783, 2012_cheap_promotion_plastic_sunglasses_lowest_shutter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3429108

>>3429034

>> No.3429132

>>3429108
You nearly killed me you son of a bitch!

>> No.3429174

>>3429108
You mean, playing a e s t h e t i c while BEING a e s t h e t i c?

Righteous!