Quake 2 sucks.

[Anonymous No.3406731]

What the hell happened here? This game is AWFUL.

The first Quake was a good game. It has a nice Medieval-Lovecraftian-Army of Darkness atmosphere and style. The levels were mazey and fun, and they still hold up today - just like Doom. The weapons were fun to shoot, and the enemies were memorable.

But this game takes all of that and completely destroys it. It has zero definable atmosphere and style. It has the most forgettable setting and style possible, which I can only describe as generic grimdark sci-fi. All of the weapons have also been butchered badly. They aren't memorable, fun to shoot, and it tries to be more "realistic" but fails horribly. The worst part of all is the level design. The gameplay is boring because of how linear the game is, and it lacks any of the charm of complexity of the first game or Doom. The best way to describe it is a really, really shitty version of Half-Life, but without anything clever or memorable which that game had.

I'm sure there will be people out there who disagree, because they played this game online 20 years ago, but I DARE you to play this game for 30 minutes and not get bored. Play Quake 1 or HL straight after, and you will see the huge shift in quality. Sure, HL came out a year later, but it hardly makes it any better.

[Anonymous No.3406748]

>>3406731
Why don't you discuss games you enjoy instead of being a shitter? What do you want out of this thread?

"Yeah! Yeah! Totally! Quake 2? More liek quake POO amirite? You are so awesome for pointing that out OP! I wish we had more threads like this!"

Faggot.

[Anonymous No.3406760]

>>3406731
why are q1fags always so objectively wrong?

q1 has no theme, it's a mish-mash of random levels with random styles. q2 actually has an established and consistent style. maps are as "linear" as q1 maps, only less random/crazy and more thought-through

only realistic complaints i can think of are that some entities are too slow (doors, elevators) and that enemies are too easy, even on hard+. it's still a good game with a solid single player and very hectic multiplayer

[Anonymous No.3406802]

>>3406760
Q1 had a solid theme for each episode. Q2 was just techbase after techbase

[Anonymous No.3406807]

>>3406731
You have to think about when it came out. At the time it was great to have a single player campaign not all be standalone levels. It was a campaign. Although I don't personally enjoy Quake 2 and I think the guns are that great, the level design is pretty good at times. I think it's a decent FPS.

[Anonymous No.3406819]

>>3406802
no, it didn't. even levels in the same episode were random and unrelated to each other

[Anonymous No.3406841]

q2 ports pls???

[Anonymous No.3406936]

>>3406731
It doesn't suck but it's nowhere near as good as the first one.

[Anonymous No.3406939]

I guess I'll be the one to explain that it was created as an unrelated game and just given the "Quake" title for marketing purposes.

[Anonymous No.3406951]

>>3406819
This
Every Quake episode starts with a tech base, and then it just goes into random fantasy architecture.
It's nigh impossible to tell which level is what. In Quake 2, I can create a mental map of the different areas and how they are connected.
You can argue that fantasy is far more interesting than generic sci-fi, but that is subjective.

[Anonymous No.3407245]

>>3406951
fantasy + sci fi is more interesting than just sci fi on its own

[Anonymous No.3407282]

played it recently; still fun as hell.

[Anonymous No.3407320]

ITT fucktards on both sides arguing like retards.

[Anonymous No.3407332]

Have to agree. Installed it recently hoping for a great trip down the memory lane. Uninstalled it 2 hours later. Hated the blaster, hated everything really. Boring sci-fi bases, lame art direction which has nothing to do with Quake 1.

Now I'm not the biggest Q1 fan in terms of gameplay. But it had damn great style, the mixture of satanic middle-ages and sci-fi. Also, it had pretty nifty secrets. But Q2 is just no fun at all.

[Anonymous No.3407424]

>>3406748
This.
/thread

[Anonymous No.3407428]

>>3407332
Youre a moron.

[Anonymous No.3407440]

>>3407428
*You're

If you're going to call someone a moron, at least do it right.

[Anonymous No.3407505]

OP sounds like he never played the game before and got into Q2 while not taking into account when it was made and while expecting another shitty Doom clone, rather than considering Q2 as its own thing in its own right.

tl,dr Doombabies thread.

[Anonymous No.3407582]

>>3406760
that's what i like about it. it had more variety.

i really prefer q1's variety and soundtrack. despite less plot, it felt more polished.

[Anonymous No.3407586]

>>3406731
OP is a cuck sucker.

[Anonymous No.3407587]

>>3406731
Quake, Doom, etc have always been edgy preteen garbage. You've just grown up.

[Anonymous No.3407592]

>>3407320

This.
Q2 has solid, cyborg-themed sci-fi atmosphere, while Q1 has oniric, lovecraftian horror feeling to it.

If you're telling Q1 is "lol random xD", you are a retard with no imagination what-so-ever.
If you're telling Q2 is boring, you are a retard who can't see the difference between opinions and facts.

Pic related.

[Anonymous No.3407596]

>>3407587
But I'm not an edge lord, or a preteen or even a teen, and yet I have always enjoyed playing the Quake games.

[Anonymous No.3407597]

>>3407592
That pic applies to so many things.

[Anonymous No.3407602]

>>3406748

This, honestly.

But I'll post my opinion on Quake 1 and 2 anyway.

They're both different and they both have their ups and down. Quake has no fucking idea what it is because it's ultimately just a case of 'ok, our groundbreaking new engine is done, lets just throw some shit together and call it a day'. The levels are tiny and simplistic, but they're at least fairly fun, aided by solid enemy design.

Quake 2 on the other hand, knows exactly what it is and cohesive all the way through. The problem is there's no Romero now, and you can instantly feel it in the level design. There's no stand-out levels in the whole game. Everyone blames half-life for popularizing linear maps, but Quake 2 was 90% of the way there already.

But hey. At least Quake 2 isn't just a slapped together pile of assets.

Honestly, I like both, and they both have their shitty aspects.

[Anonymous No.3407603]

>>3407597
No it doesn't

[Anonymous No.3407604]

>>3407596
Don't pay him attention.
Most people who just grew out of the "edgy" phase will criticize everything as "edgy" to show how mature they are now.

[Anonymous No.3407617]

>>3407603
Um, yes it does.

[Anonymous No.3407625]

>>3407617
No, not at all.

[Anonymous No.3407626]

>>3407625
Sure it does.

[Anonymous No.3407627]

>>3407626
But it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.3407634]

>>3407627
Well, maybe it does, sometimes.

[Anonymous No.3407639]

>>3407634
No, not even sometimes.

[Anonymous No.3407645]

>>3407639
But what about when the stars and planets are lined up?

[Anonymous No.3407652]

It's not that bad. People criticize it for being "generic" and "brown" but they fail to realize that all of those generic, brown corridor shooters that came out after and defined late 90s/early 00s FPSes ripped off Quake 2 because that's what was hot back then.

Overall Unreal was better though.

[Anonymous No.3407713]

Fun fact: Quake 2 wasn't initially made as a Quake game. They retrofitted it to the franchise late in the development.

[Anonymous No.3407716]

>>3407713
explains why it's the only "quake" I get along with

[Anonymous No.3407720]

>>3407245
>>3406951
>>3406819
>>3406760

Quake was supposed to be a nord fantasy themed RPG, but they could not finish it, so they just said fuck it and made a FPS but they had already all the assets of a fantasy game, that's why it does not make any sense.

Are you guys really that new or young that you don't know that shit?

[Anonymous No.3407721]

>>3407505
>tl,dr Doombabies thread.
Nice try faggot. Doombabbies would be the retards preferring quake 2. Vr is a hopelessly plebeian board when it comes to fps.

[Anonymous No.3407724]

>>3407720
no shit. Still makes for an awesome fantasy / sci fi crossover. Its part of the charm. I dont think it would have been as good if it was a full fledged fantasy game, or a full sci fi shooter - its the mix that makes it.

Sometimes not having enough time creates something great. Pretty sure there's a Bernstein quote that says exactly that.

[Anonymous No.3407727]

>>3407724
Quake would have been good no matter what they would have done with it!

Love that there are actually assets for dragons in the game files.

[Anonymous No.3407737]

Quake 2's gameplay is objectively balls. Boring game, boring enemy combination dynamics, boring combat situations and slow as all fuck. It will never be anywhere near the first game's level in sp or mp.

[Anonymous No.3407764]

I like Quake 2 but it's not as fun as the original Quake. The soundtrack is amazing though. Probably the best game soundtrack I've ever heard.

[Anonymous No.3407791]

>>3406731
>Style
>Atmosphere

fucking really?

Are we all forgetting the fact that Quake 2 on the hardest difficulty was a fucking cakewalk compared to Quake 1?

Quake 2 was boring because it was EASY. Weapons were overpowered and easier to use, enemies went down easier, ammo was plentiful, and nothing did significant damage to you except the railgun which is the easiest thing in the game to dodge.

[Anonymous No.3407807]

>>3407720
>nord fantasy

what the fuck is that?

[Anonymous No.3407809]

>Q1
>memorable enemies

aside from shambler and ogre they are all boring as fuck

[Anonymous No.3407813]

Reminder that at least Q2 had actual bosses.

[Anonymous No.3407815]

>>3407813
Not sure you can even call those faggots bosses they're so goddamn irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.3407829]

in quake 1, you generally started in an army slipgate complex, and you teleport to shub-niggurath's outlandish defense outposts and destroy her generals and grab a rune.

i think the game does a decent job of portraying this, though some levels are quite abstract.

also, quake was meant to be a medieval hack and slash game. I always wonder what those runes function would have been if they stayed with their original idea.

[Anonymous No.3407865]

>>3407809
fiend. sword guys. dogs. vore. scrag. All pretty cool

the zombies were pretty well done too

[Anonymous No.3407880]

>>3407865
Wow dogs and knights how unique.

[Anonymous No.3407893]

>>3407880
the sound effects in those dogs have been used in like every doom mod with dogs.

And the 2 different types of knights were pretty cool. not often a knight shoots fireballs in a horizontal spread at you. and the basic knights are just psychopaths - dat sound design.

[Anonymous No.3407898]

>>3407893
>a shit mod with shit custom enemies used their sound so that means they are good

kys

[Anonymous No.3407912]

Q3 Arena best Quake

[Anonymous No.3407924]

You have all probably played Q2 with blurred stretched textures, or with some shitty port that fucks with gamma and brightness instead of normalizing 6 bit texture palette channels to 8 bit. That's not how it looked like on first generation of 3D accelerators. Hint: use a software rendering mode to get a good reference picture, then try to get similar results from hardware rendering (after texture conversion).

It is similar to many games because it *is* one of the roots of all those semi-cartoon sci-fi first person shooters with colorful visual accents and a gameplay that is not based on reactions and spamming enemy with everything you have. Fights are slower because each of the enemies take additional movement and preparations to deal with. It's not “realistic”, it's different. On-screen and off-screen changes happen in the game world, making levels a bit less static than pieces of concrete. Half-life is really different, as shooting enemies is secondary to interacting with the world in general, and Quake 2 is still a shooter with some storyline.

Engine showcased dynamic lighting, 3D effects like explosions and stuff, and smooth movement of models. Multiplayer has been fun. Red/blue CTF maps were *a pretty fucking great design*.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58GzQRDbYiA

[Anonymous No.3407947]

>>3407807
It was supposed to be nerd fantasy.

[Anonymous No.3407963]

>>3407924
Why is the dynamic lighting in Quake 2 so ugly?
It's like there is no falloff, it just instantly transitions from very bright to no light at all as you get further away. It wasn't like that in Quake with the rockets.

[Anonymous No.3407990]

>>3407791
>Weapons were overpowered
that's not it. just enemies weren't bullet sponges, which is a good thing
> and easier to use
you what

[Anonymous No.3407994]

Both are good games

[Anonymous No.3408052]

>>3407912
True but that's far and well beyond the scope of doom babbies. Both quake and quake 3 are games that doom babbies will never be able to understand.

[Anonymous No.3408060]

>>3407990
that flashing shouldn't be happening when you fire with the machine gun. seems off

source: played it back in the day when it came out

[Anonymous No.3408106]

>>3407963
>Why is the dynamic lighting in Quake 2 so ugly?

Because it's literally one of the first implementations of dynamic lighting a 3D game. Of course it's going to look like shit.

Quake 2 was released in 1997. Show me a game released before it with better realtime 3D lighting.

>>3407924
Has nostalgia goggles on.

[Anonymous No.3408131]

>>3408106
>Show me a game released before it with better realtime 3D lighting.

[Anonymous No.3408140]

>>3406731
Quake 2 can't even compete with Half-Life.

I never played it up until 2015, and when I did I enjoyed it so much I did a second playthrough a week after I finished it.

[Anonymous No.3408145]

>>3408106
Powerslave/Exhumed on Saturn and PS1 had nice lights for its time.

[Anonymous No.3408196]

Good thing you deleted the first post in this thread, jani. We never would of had such a great discussion otherwise. Nigger.

[Anonymous No.3408212]

Quake is great to chart the evolution of the shooter. Quake the shift into true 3d, and then Quake 2 predicts the era of campaigns that Half Life 2 would solidify.

[Anonymous No.3408219]

Quake 2 was great, eat shit fag lord

[Anonymous No.3408235]

ah quake 2. what a game. op experiences are entirely conceived from the single player experience... the multiplayer aspect was the real draw, and indeed boasted huge numbers of players in 98/99. gosh, who could say no to rocket arena 2? critically acclaimed game at the time was quake 2. in 2016 a NEET plays it via torrent and forms his opinion from the vanilla q2 single player experience. you are so out of time it's farcical.

[Anonymous No.3408240]

>>3408235
I only ever played Q2 single player, even back then. One of the few games I played to completion and enjoyed it (unlike HL). Never touched MP, and when Q3 went all out MP I didn't bother with it. When "forced" by people to play it anyway, it was dull and rough, not very entertaining.

[Anonymous No.3408252]

>>3408240
didn't even use eraser bots to play multiplayer offline? oh m8!

[Anonymous No.3408261]

>>3408252
no, not even that. Multiplayer does not interest me, at least not in Q2. I do play bots in UT, though no MP against people

[Anonymous No.3408316]

Q2 had some cool weapons and a decent soundtrack, but it honestly feels like little more than a graphics demo to me. The multiplayer is kinda fun, but the SP feels like a bad ripoff of Doom with way fewer enemies.

Q1 suffered from similar problems, though it does have a neat aesthetic and an awesome dark ambient NIN soundtrack. Sadly, its weapons are bland, and levels can be a real pain in the ass to navigate with no automap.

[Anonymous No.3408325]

>>3408316
>soundtrack
always played without music, just like Doom. Music just seems distracting. To this point I don't know what the soundtrack's like

[Anonymous No.3408338]

>>3407963
Dynamic lightmaps were calculated in software for both software and hardware renderers (static illumination was pre-processed by map making tools). They only depended on surface-space coordinate distance from a normal from light to surface without regard to visibility and angle, no wonder they look off. They had been calculated at low resolution and low bit depth for each 16x16 pixel block and then scaled. There is only one texture for dynamic lightmaps, and batch rendering job flushes when it's full. There are cutoff values for both geometrical distance from light and minimum light intensity to save in lightmaps. All of that was made to fit into either 256 color palette that didn't allow for much variance, or very limited amount of 3D accelerator memory.

Fan patches make cutoff configurable.

See
https://github.com/id-Software/Quake-2/blob/master/ref_soft/r_light.c#L284
https://github.com/id-Software/Quake-2/blob/master/ref_gl/gl_light.c#L359
http://fabiensanglard.net/quake2/quake2_software_renderer.php
http://fabiensanglard.net/quake2/quake2_opengl_renderer.php

Nice thing: http://dk.toastednet.org/Q2DOS/

>>3408060
Colored lights are only available in hardware accelerated renderer. With software renderer, flash is white instead of yellow and seems smaller because global environment is less contrast. Note that first accelerators run in dithered 256 color and HiColor modes and had crude filtering and scaling routines, so their output was a bit different from what you see from OpenGL renderer on a modern card.

>>3408106
You are overreacting.

[Anonymous No.3408359]

>>3408325
You're missing a huge part of the experience.

>>3407737
Most accurate post in this thread.

[Anonymous No.3408370]

>>3408359
>You're missing a huge part of the experience.
no, I didn't miss anything. Been a fun game, quite spooky in parts, worked fine for me

[Anonymous No.3408372]

>>3408370
>quite spooky

Yeah, you definitely missed something.

[Anonymous No.3408374]

>>3408372
>missed
no, I didn't. Not that hard to understand, I thought

[Anonymous No.3408380]

>>3408316
lol who the fuck uses the automap apart from finding secrets? people get lost on fps levels?????? WOW

[Anonymous No.3408450]

>>3407440
Im on my phone dickbreath.

[Anonymous No.3408492]

>>3408338
If you wonder how colored lights work in software, see https://qbism.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6

Default palette works nice for colors in default textures (it's the other way round, of course) and allows to darken them to create lighting, but free tint to any color leaves very little values usable. Dynamic palette and/or higher definition blending would fix that, probably with a performance hit and/or MMX hardware requirement.

[Anonymous No.3408516]

>>Doom
>Hitscan monsters either have low HP, or is a boss
>>Quake 1
>Only hitscan enemy is a weak soldier, Shambler at least allowed time to dodge
>>Quake 2
>Way more hitscan enemies than any of the previous games, even high end enemies have hitscan

Who at id left after Quake 1 that was actually competent at monster design? Can't be Romero, Daikatana was filled with hitscan enemies. Was Sandy Peterson actually a genius monster designer?

[Anonymous No.3408520]

I've always hated Quake 2's artstyle.
But then I was told Software Rendering actually had a different palette. It looks so much better.
Why the hell does hardware mode ruin the game by being overly orange?

[Anonymous No.3408529]

>>3408520
If you based your post on that shitty image, you are enormously stupid.

[Anonymous No.3409876]

>>3407990
>that's not it. just enemies weren't bullet sponges, which is a good thing
they weren't in quake 1 either unless you used the wrong weapons on them

[Anonymous No.3409890]

>>3409876
considering it's quake, they're all wrong. Unless you're suggesting that pos of a game has degrees of wrong, instead of being uniform trash

[Anonymous No.3409912]

OP I "feel" the same way you do, BUT I believe it's wrong. My instinct says the same. But from what people have said and how they've reacted over the years, I believe they truly find Quake 2 to be a great game. It's a difference of taste and preference. Also I find I don't enjoy Quake 1 the same way I used to.

[Anonymous No.3409914]

>>3409912
>I find I don't enjoy Quake 1 the same way I used to
can you expand on that, please?

[Anonymous No.3409957]

>>3409914
I'm not hetero anymore either and enjoy sucking dicks now; that probably has something to do with it.

[Anonymous No.3410173]

>>3408380
I would've never beaten Doom without it. My spatial reasoning is just that shitty. From a user friendliness standpoint, I think automaps are a valuable feature to have in any game featuring large, sprawling levels.

[Anonymous No.3410193]

>>3410173
if you need for your player to rely on maps, then your world needs work. I'm not advocating linear levels, but I'm advocating worlds that use in-world reasonable clues as to where you are (consistent visual design, signs, section coloring, access to overview locations, plenty of options). The in-game character does not necessarily have the luxury of perfect mapping, including their own location, so it's kind of unfair to give the player that. It also means you're potentially reducing the world itself to a mere decoration, with the players entirely navigating it via the map proxy

[Anonymous No.3410237]

>>3409914
Thrill's not what it used to be, I feel I've experienced it all. I still like the game. The best games leave go eventually, not make you come crawling back for more every year.

[Anonymous No.3410247]

>>3410237
>The best games leave go eventually, not make you come crawling back for more every year
You make OutRun sound so terrible

[Anonymous No.3410402]

>>3408520
Lack of gamma correction, messes with saturation. Compare Half-Life which corrects the lighting in the map.

[Anonymous No.3411141]

>>3407602
I can agree with that. But despite q1 being kinda thrown together, it still had clever level design, with fast action packed combat that was just damn satisfying. Q2 was just too slow and mundane gameplay wise by comparison.

[Anonymous No.3411169]

>>3410173
>I would've never beaten Doom without it.
damn...

that is some pretty shitty spatial reasoning.

wolfenstein was a bit of a maze at times, how did you fare there?

[Anonymous No.3412350]

What's going on in this thread?

[Anonymous No.3412404]

>>3408374
Quake and especially Doom are legendary for their soundtracks. You're short changing yourself with the music, and you can't rationalize not having the music on unless.

[Anonymous No.3412507]

>>3408325
I can understand turning off the music in doom, but quakes soundtrack is more like part of the ambiance. It doesn't overpower or distract from the game in any way. The quiet whisperings and creepy far off horn sounds will turn the game from "pretty cool dark architecture" into "holy fuck this is one dark, freaky game and I'm totally immersed right now"

[Anonymous No.3412543]

>>3408516
It was Romero. He's good at "fun". The man knows good gameplay and fun, fast flowing level design. He's just a godawful manager.

The problem with Daikatana is he was a shit manager with terrible policies, no organisation, and an obsession with being a rockstar-dev. It's not that he didn't give a fuck, it's just that the policies he put in place were shit, and the people he needed to design the monsters floundered, and he wasn't able to do their jobs in addition to his own (which he was terrible at).

[Anonymous No.3412547]

>>3412404
>Quake
>>3412507
quakes

never played quake, no interest. Quake 2 works great for me without a soundtrack

>I'm totally immersed right now
You know what pulls me out of a game? non-diegetic music

[Anonymous No.3412572]

>>3407602

A little over exaggerate about Quake 1 "slap some shit together" metaphor, sure the first levels of each episode were always scifi/tech bases but after the first level it was always some spooky gothic shit

>Quake 2 on the other hand, knows exactly what it is

despite the fact that it was never a quake game to begin with. You're probably right to say it know exactly what it is, but the one thing it doesn't know is that it's actually not a quake game.

[NESfag No.3412604]

I hate when people bring up a game's early alpha, or even pre-development sketches, to try to make some kind of point.
Do you know how many games are completely different while being developed ? Most of them are. Don' tell me that for Quake the FPS route was a last minute thing, it's not true. Were you not told about the dungeon crawling intentions you wouldn't even have noticed anything, and that's the thing, for most games you don't know.

It's the same for Quake II, don't tell me they didn't have time to make it a Quake game.
Besides, Quake was developed with a "no story" mind, but by the time Quake II was made, story was becoming important in FPS, so they HAD to come up with something. Considering that the prequel they base themselves on has NOTHING in the department of story, anything they would have come up with would have not been faithful to Quake1, just for the fact that the story is there.

Honestly this like saying Devil May Cry is a not a real action game because "it used to be a survival horror".

[Anonymous No.3412710]

>>3408516
>Can't be Romero, Daikatana was filled with hitscan enemies.
it's an expert FPS!

[Anonymous No.3412737]

>>3406731
Quake 2 is just a long boring corridor with badly designed enemies

[Anonymous No.3412921]

>>3412547
>never played quake
what are you even doing in this thread then?

what are you even doing on /vr/ ?

[Anonymous No.3412943]

>>3412921
it's a quake 2 thread

[Anonymous No.3412972]

Quake 2 multiplayer was very fun.

[Anonymous No.3414670]

>>3411169
It's been years since I last played Wolf3D. I don't think I've ever even beaten the first episode. I remember getting lost a lot more easily than on Doom.

[Anonymous No.3414758]

>>3407720
I thought it was 2 games mashed together not one game that changed direction halfway through development

[Anonymous No.3414759]

>>3406731
I'm maximum overtriggered, nigger.

bait/10 you got me.

Now apply rope to neck.

[Anonymous No.3414808]

>>3406731

Weapons weren't fun to shoot?

The super shotgun was. Fucking. LOUD! And did a very nice damage to boot. Clearing hordes of enemies with a quad-damage chaingun felt very satisfying. I also liked to accurately control the hyperblaster and not waste too many shots. Even to this day I fucking love the hyperblaster sound, design, damage and the build up before the rapid fire come along. You can say whatever you want about atmosphere, AI, enemies, whatever, but you don't fuck with Quake 2 weapons. They were great.